[Grovenet] Driving Help Needed
Steve Jerrett
stevedj at teleport.com
Mon Jan 14 16:36:23 PST 2008
Allen,
Thanks for the added information. Your original post led me to believe that
you were not taking any action to correct the situation.
More than likely, when your son is older and more mature, he will understand
and realize what great parents you are.
There are a lot of parents who seem incapable, afraid or misguided enough
to be ineffective when it comes to guiding their children's journey to
adulthood. Many of their children will look back and understand and realize
that, also.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Allen Warren" <osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com>
To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 1:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Driving Help Needed
> Steven, thank you for the Oregon code information.
>
> Katie, as you do indeed know our son, thank you for the kind words and
> advice.
>
> Alan, thank you for your suggestion of Sears Driving School. Our son did
> attend driving classes prior to getting his license, but we're seriously
> considering if he needs remedial training.
>
> Once again I'm reminded of how no matter what I write in an email, it can
> never come close to conveying the same message delivered in a face-to-face
> conversation.
>
> The incident that occurred last evening definitely & immediately shocked &
> scared my wife and I. It was all we could do not to scream at the top of
> our lungs at him. That's why I wrote "After my heart rate and blood
> pressure neared their normal levels . . .". And that's also why we
> immediately took our son's drivers license from him. We agree he's not
> showing he deserves the privelege of driving. We were extremely lucky
> that conditions were as they were last evening, i.e. we were stopped at
> the signal, virtually no traffic, no pouring rain, nobody approaching the
> intersection from behind us, etc., else I shudder to think of all the
> dangerous, and deadly, outcomes that could've occurred.
>
> Even though I've been legally driving for over 31 years, I don't think in
> my first 6 months of getting my license I would've considered it sensible
> to do what our son did. But let's face it: we're all wired a little
> differently. When the Good Lord gave our son a brain he must've stuffed
> it so full of intelligence that there was little room left for common
> sense. The boy is intelligent as hell but it's incidents like last night
> that I'll still be saying to myself "What in HELL was he thinking??!!"
> until the day I die. His passion and caring are so great that they
> sometimes overwhelm common sense, like last night, for instance. Our son
> wants to get an old diesel engine car (i.e. Mercedes) so he can first run
> it on bio-diesel and eventually convert it to run on waste vegetable oil.
> His passion for conservation totally beat up on and overruled his common
> sense last night. And that's why my wife and I are here to make sure he
> understands he's wrong and
> explain to our son why he's wrong, unlike my father who would've first
> said, "It's common sense", followed by a "Because I said so" if I pressed
> the issue further by asking something like, "But why is it wrong?"
>
> This particular child of ours doesn't argue or defy us as a rebellious
> act. His arguing is all about expressing his thoughts and opinions while
> trying to find the truth. Like many teenagers, he thinks he's much, much
> older and wiser than 16. I know I was a pain in the butt to my parents
> because I'm sure I knew everything there was to know when I was age 16.
> But again, our son's arguing is not malicious. It's all about getting at
> the truth. Is it any wonder we think an excellent profession for him
> someday would be as a legal investigator or forensic scientist or lawyer?
>
> My intent in posting to Grovenet was to get information and help. I very
> much appreciate those who responded by giving good information and helpful
> feedback.
>
> Allen Warren
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Steve Jerrett <stevedj at teleport.com>
> To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 11:37:55 AM
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Driving Help Needed
>
> Katie,
>
> I appreciate the advice on teen driving instruction.
>
> I have been instructing my children for 10 years. They made their share of
> 'learning mistakes' and I did my share of correction. I would always
> discuss
> the error and made it quite clear that a responsibility as serious as
> driving was not open to much debate and interpretation. Any dissent would
> lead to a temporary suspension of privileges. It is a one-sided issue by
> design. Driving a motor vehicle is not the correct avenue to let an
> emotionally or intellectually immature person "find themselves." There
> are
> plenty of non life threatening issues that are appropriate.
>
> I did not recommend that Allen pull his license or permit, but recommended
> a
> parental suspension as long as his son continues to argue or debate.
> While
> arguing or debating may be typical behavior for many teens, it has no
> place
> behind the wheel.
>
> You call his logic in this instance slightly flawed. I would call it
> severely flawed. I hope that he is kept off the road pending father
> maturation.
>
> Yes, Katie, life is beautiful. Severe injury or death in an automobile
> tend
> to not be.
>
>
> Steve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Katie Allnutt" <allnutt at verizon.net>
> To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 10:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Driving Help Needed
>
>
>> In defense of Allen and his son I'd like to clarify that he is in the
>> learning stage and this is a perfect example of how kids learn to
>> drive. They go with their parents, make a 'learning' mistake, get
>> corrected by the parent and go on.
>> He doesn't need to have his license or permit pulled, he just needs
>> to be corrected.
>> Even though Allen says he continued to argue, that is typical for
>> kids to do even when they agree with what the parent is saying.
>>
>> From my interactions with this kid in the neighborhood and school,
>> he is a quick learner, he cares about doing things right (he was
>> attempting to save gas which is a good goal and he had some logic
>> behind his actions -he was under lights - even if it was slightly
>> flawed logic), and from what I have seen he would not recklessly
>> endanger himself or others. In other words he is a good kid and he
>> is learning. Life is beautiful.
>>
>> Katie
>>
>>
>> On Jan 14, 2008, at 10:13 AM, Steve Jerrett wrote:
>>
>>> Allen,
>>>
>>>
>>> Does he have his license yet?
>>>
>>> If so, I would seriously consider suspending his driving
>>> privileges. If he
>>> makes those kinds of decisions with you in the car, who knows what
>>> he does
>>> if you are not there?
>>>
>>> Why are you debating with him? Inform him that he not only needs
>>> to follow
>>> the State Motor Vehicle Laws but your rules also. If he wants to
>>> make up his
>>> own rules, he needs to do so when he turns 21 with his own car and
>>> insurance
>>> policy. It is your responsibility to ensure that he is capable of
>>> driving
>>> without undue risk to the safety of himself and others.
>>>
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "+rlo" <rlo42 at yahoo.com>
>>> To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
>>> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 9:19 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Driving Help Needed
>>>
>>>
>>>> Again, another example of idiotic thoughts. This scares me! It
>>>> doesn't
>>>> matter if it's against the law or not...it is certainly against
>>>> the law of
>>>> common sense!
>>>>
>>>> Allen Warren <osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com> wrote: Last evening
>>>> approximately
>>>> 9:00 PM I was traveling north on Highway 47 with my 16-year old son
>>>> driving, approaching the intersection at Highway 8. Approximately 100
>>>> yards from the traffic signal the light changed to red. After
>>>> stopping for
>>>> the signal, my son put the drive gear in Park and turned off the
>>>> car. It's
>>>> important to note that when the motor is turned off the computer
>>>> automatically turns off the lights.
>>>>
>>>> In a panic I asked, "what's wrong? why did you turn off the
>>>> car?!". His
>>>> reply: "Since we're going to be sitting here for awhile I wanted
>>>> to save
>>>> gas so I turned off the car." As you might expect, I told him to
>>>> immediately start the car and turn the lights on.
>>>>
>>>> After my heart rate and blood pressure neared their normal levels, I
>>>> informed my son that for the very short period of time we would be
>>>> waiting
>>>> for the traffic signal to turn green, we would actually use a
>>>> little more
>>>> fuel and it would be an extra load on the car's system to restart vs.
>>>> sitting idling. I also informed my son that not only was it *NOT*
>>>> safe to
>>>> sit in a parked car with headlights off in a traffic lane at night
>>>> but
>>>> that I believed it to be against Oregon driving laws.
>>>>
>>>> My son was open to the potential of the no-real gas/energy savings
>>>> answer
>>>> being true (but still debated, as is normal for him) but argued that
>>>> turning off the vehicle and sitting there in the dark was *NOT*
>>>> unsafe as
>>>> he said it was a well-lit area, and he also argued it wouldn't be a
>>>> traffic violation. I argued it was unsafe because even though it was
>>>> indeed a well-lit area and we were stopped at a red light signal,
>>>> we were
>>>> sitting in a car, in a traffic lane, with no lights on at night. I
>>>> also
>>>> informed him that unless the car was disabled and could not safely be
>>>> moved to the side and off the roadway, deliberately parking a car
>>>> in a
>>>> traffic lane was a violation. He continued to argue his point this
>>>> morning.
>>>>
>>>> I've looked on the DMV website and can't find actual text validating
>>>> either of our positions. Does anyone know if what occurred last
>>>> evening
>>>> would be considered a violation under Oregon Motor Vehicle driving
>>>> laws?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance for your help,
>>>>
>>>> Allen Warren
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _____________________________________________________________________
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