[Grovenet] More on Guantanamo and humane treatment

Ed Davie edavie at verizon.net
Fri Jan 23 17:30:09 PST 2009


What do you mean, "He just bombed Pakistan"?
Ed

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Steven
  To: obrzl at verizon.net ; Forest Grove local 
interests list
  Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 4:55 PM
  Subject: Re: [Grovenet] More on Guantanamo and 
humane treatment


  Hu?
  The planning for 9/11 was done well before Bush 
came to office. There have
  already been Obama effigies burned. He just 
bombed Pakistan.
  You think this whole thing is about Bush? I'm 
optimistic that you will
  learn.


  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com 
[mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com]On
  > Behalf Of mark oberzil
  > Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 3:11 PM
  > To: Forest Grove local interests list
  > Subject: Re: [Grovenet] More on Guantanamo and 
humane treatment
  >
  >
  > Forgive me if this thought has already come up 
on Gnet. But I have yet to
  > see any mention, here or in the press, of the 
idea that the mere election
  > of Barak Obama might greatly undermine efforts 
to recruit terrorists
  > worldwide.
  >
  > After 9/11, throughout the Islamic world there 
were posters of the attacks
  > on the twin towers. It was like saying, "Look 
what we did! Come join
  > us!" The election of Barak Hussein Obama, 
albeit seven years later, is
  > like a collective turning of the other cheek 
by America, saying, "and look
  > what we did!"
  >
  > Of course the road ahead will be difficult. 
But I for one cannot help but
  > believe that the job of every terror 
recruiter, every suicide peddling
  > Mullah, was made much more difficult by this 
one act.
  >
  > Mark
  >
  > --- On Fri, 1/23/09, Katie Allnutt 
<allnutt at verizon.net> wrote:
  >
  > From: Katie Allnutt <allnutt at verizon.net>
  > Subject: [Grovenet] More on Guantanamo and 
humane treatment
  > To: "Forest Grove local interests list" 
<grovenet at rdrop.com>
  > Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, 6:53 PM
  >
  > Interesting read. Be sure to note the guy who 
was motivated by his
  > desire to keep his family safe, a universal 
trait to be sure.
  >
  > We are in a crucial battle of ideas. The way 
to win is to stick to them.
  >
  > Katie
  >
  >
  >
  > Obama Says No to Torture; Interrogators Say 
Yes to Obama
  >
  > David Danzig – Thu Jan 22, 10:51 pm ET
  > Huffington Post
  >
  >
  > Interrogators are lauding President Obama for 
signing an executive
  > order that will shut down secret CIA prisons 
and place the use of
  > coercive interrogation techniques completely 
off limits.
  > "[The order] closes an unconscionable period 
in our history, in which
  > those who knew least, professed to know most 
about interrogations,"
  > said Joe Navarro, a former special agent and 
supervisor with the FBI.
  > "Some die-hards on the right -- who have never 
interrogated anyone --
  > are already arguing that forcing 
interrogations to be conducted
  > within army field manual guidelines is a step 
backward and will
  > result in 'coddling' dangerous terrorists," 
retired Colonel Stuart
  >
  > Herrington, who served for more than 30 years 
as a military
  > intelligence officer, said soon after the 
order was signed. "This is
  > a common, but uninformed view. Experienced, 
well-trained,
  > professional interrogators know that 
interrogation is an art. It is a
  > battle of wits, not muscle. It is a challenge 
that can be
  > accomplished within the military guidelines 
without resorting to
  > brutality."
  > The way interrogation works is largely 
misunderstood by the general
  > public and some senior policy makers, 
according to Navarro,
  > Herrington and other intelligence 
professionals.
  > "Interrogation is not like a faucet that you 
can turn on - and the
  > harder you turn, the more information will 
pour out," explains
  > Herrington, who conducted a classified review 
of detention and
  > interrogation practices in Iraq for the U.S. 
Army.
  > * * * * * *
  > Getting a suspected terrorist to talk is much 
more subtle than what
  > one typically sees in the movies or on TV. A 
new book, How to Break A
  > Terrorist by Matthew Alexander (a pseudonym), 
provides an inside look
  > at how interrogation can yield more 
information if it is done humanely.
  > Alexander developed the intelligence that led 
U.S. forces to al-
  > Zarqawi, the former chief of Al Qaeda in Iraq. 
While some were using
  > abusive techniques to try to crack detainees, 
Alexander used a
  > smarter, more sophisticated approach. He 
learned what the detainees
  > cared about and then used that information to 
get what he wanted.
  > For example, his first big break came when he 
interrogated a cleric
  > who was an Al Qaeda operative. The cleric said 
he would like to
  > "slit" Alexander's throat "and watch you die" 
when the
  > interrogation
  > began. Three days later he gave up critical 
info that led directly to
  > Zarqawi.
  > What changed? Alexander learned, through 
patient questioning, that
  > the detainee had joined Al Qaeda to keep his 
family safe. The cleric
  > identified key Al Qaeda hiding places as soon 
as Alexander showed
  > that he could -- and would -- protect the 
cleric's family.
  > Another recently published book, Mission: 
Black List #1 by Staff
  > Sergeant Eric Maddox, shows how the author, an 
interrogator stationed
  > in Tikrit, developed the intelligence that led 
to the capture of
  > Saddam Hussein. Maddox was hunting one of the 
most wanted men in
  > Iraq. Like Alexander he did not try to "break" 
detainees by beating
  > them up; he talked to them.
  > Maddox was an information junkie who patiently 
interrogated hundreds
  > of detainees and slowly pieced together a 
picture that led him to
  > Saddam. He also intuitively understood that, 
if possible, you want
  > the detainees to not only answer your 
questions, but also tell you
  > which questions to ask. He induced a detainee 
who was a close friend
  > (and former driver) of one of Saddam's closest 
confidants to join his
  > "team." The former driver joined Maddox in 
interrogations. Detainees
  >
  > "broke" the moment that Maddox and the former 
driver started
  > interrogating them.
  > As Maddox and Alexander have proved, these are 
the sorts of
  > techniques that work in the interrogation 
booth. Professional
  > interrogators believe that the president's 
action not only returned
  > the U.S. to high ground, they refocused U.S. 
intelligence operations
  > on techniques that are effective.
  > * * * * * *
  > "The quality and quantity of intelligence we 
can gather will now
  > begin to increase," said Torin Nelson, an 
intelligence professional
  > who served as an interrogator with the U.S. 
Army and private military
  > contractors.
  > To illustrate how torture can lead to poor 
intelligence, Nelson cites
  > the case of Al-Libi, a detainee who was 
tortured and, under duress,
  > gave misinformation about a connection between 
Iraq and Al Qaeda.
  > (Secretary Colin Powell quoted intelligence 
gained from Al-Libi as
  > justification to go to war with Iraq.)
  > Nelson, president of the Society for 
Professional Human Intelligence,
  > said that he hoped we could end debate about 
whether or not torture
  > works and instead work on providing 
interrogators with the training
  > and resources they need to do their jobs 
effectively.
  > "The challenge we face does not have to do 
with so-called 'enhanced
  > interrogation techniques,' " said Nelson. "We 
don't want
  > those. What
  > we do need is to build a world-class 
interrogation corps. To do that,
  > we need to pay more attention to recruiting, 
training, and managing
  > interrogators. President Obama's executive 
order is an important
  > first step but there is still more to do."
  > 
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