From isis23ra at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  1 07:58:08 2009
From: isis23ra at yahoo.com (Alana Graham)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 07:58:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] Center for Gender Equity needs community members on board
Message-ID: <498339.16561.qm@web55603.mail.re4.yahoo.com>


The Center for Gender Equity of Pacific University is looking for two or three people from the community to join our Advisory Board.  The board meets once a month, and the major obligation of board members is to give feedback and advice.  Also, each board member generally has a project of some sort, but the time commitment is really individual. 

The mission of CGE is to support gender equity through dialogue, programming, service, research, education and advocacy in order to facilitate collaborative, humane, and sustainable University, local and global communities.  CGE provides Pacific University and the Forest Grove community with regular programming on important issues and support for women, men, and LGTB students, faculty and staff.  

In addition, CGE has sponsored several high profile projects for the community: Girls Today, ?It?s a Guy Thing,? annual displays of the AIDS quilt, work with the Latina community, ?Take Back the Night? marches, Guerrilla Girls and presentations of The Vagina Monologues and The Laramie Project.  

CGE also organizes service-learning travel experiences for our students and community members to southern India.  

For a full description of CGE initiatives see our website at www.pacificu.edu/academics/gender-equity/.

If you are interested, please contact Martha Rampton ramptonm at pacificu.edu.





      


From rab at jurislex.com  Wed Jul  1 11:18:16 2009
From: rab at jurislex.com (Bob Browning)
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 11:18:16 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] FYI - "Was Sotomayor Reversed,
	or Did the Supreme Court Change Course?"
Message-ID: <4A4BA868.2000606@jurislex.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: /pipermail/attachments/20090701/e79b9a72/attachment.html 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Std Email Signature RAB 3.JPG
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 24675 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : /pipermail/attachments/20090701/e79b9a72/attachment.jpe 

From osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  1 11:46:28 2009
From: osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com (Allen Warren)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 11:46:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] FYI - "Was Sotomayor Reversed,
	or Did the Supreme Court Change Course?"
In-Reply-To: <4A4BA868.2000606@jurislex.com>
References: <4A4BA868.2000606@jurislex.com>
Message-ID: <722348.43411.qm@web35205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

If we're using basic?words to convey the outcome of the Supreme Court decision, i.e. "Was Sotomayor's vote on the three member judicial panel reversed?" then a correct statement is indeed that Sotomayor was reversed, *BUT*, as you and others have so clearly stated, Sotomayor was practicing judicial responsibility by upholding?the prevailing law at the time she made her decision.? The problem?remains there will be some?people who simply do not read past Headlines, and for those publications that have an anti-Sotomayor bias, they know some readers will read the Headline and be pleased that what they believe to be true, i.e. Sotomayor being a liberal activist, has been verified.
?
Allen Warren


________________________________
From: Bob Browning <rab at jurislex.com>
To: Grovenet <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 11:18:16 AM
Subject: [Grovenet] FYI - "Was Sotomayor Reversed, or Did the Supreme Court Change Course?"

Here's a little heads up the next time your conservative pundit tells you that Sotomayor was reversed (never mind that she was only one person on a three member judicial panel that voted 2 - 1 to uphold the District Court decision!). Talk about your activist judges!!

bob "never been reversed" browning
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

ABA Journal - Law News NowU.S. Supreme Court 
Was Sotomayor Reversed, or Did the Supreme Court Change Course?
Posted Jun 30, 2009, 06:21 am CDT 
By Debra Cassens Weiss 
Headlines proclaiming the reversal of a federal appeals court ruling by U.S. Supreme Court nominee Sonia Sotomayor are off the mark, according to a journalist who has covered the high court.
In a New York Times op-ed, Linda Greenhouse writes that the Supreme Court changed course when it ruled Monday on behalf of white firefighters. In Ricci v. DeStefano, the court said the city of New Haven, Conn., erred when it threw out a fire department promotional exam because no blacks got top scores.
?Like that decision or hate it, cheer Monday?s ruling or deplore it, one thing that is clear from reading the Supreme Court?s 89 pages of opinions in the case is that Judge Sotomayor and her colleagues played by the old rules, and the court changed them,? Greenhouse writes. ?Although ?Sotomayor Reversed? was a frequent headline on the posts that spread quickly across the Web, it was actually the Supreme Court itself that shifted course.?
The op-ed notes the 1971 Supreme Court decision Griggs v. Duke Power, which held that an employment test can violate Title VII of the Civil Rights Act if it is ?fair in form, but discriminatory in operation.? Congress later amended Title VII to codify the decision. The amended law said job requirements producing a ?disparate impact? on minorities had to be justified with a showing of actual necessity.
Justice Anthony M. Kennedy?s majority opinion in yesterday?s case announced a "strong basis in evidence standard? in disparate impact cases.
"We conclude that race-based action like the city?s in this case is impermissible under Title VII unless the employer can demonstrate a strong basis in evidence that, had it not taken the action, it would have been liable under the disparate-impact statute," Kennedy wrote.


------------------------------------------------------ 



      

From rab at jurislex.com  Fri Jul  3 14:32:06 2009
From: rab at jurislex.com (Bob Browning)
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 14:32:06 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Consumer Attorneys of California - FYI re: tort reform
 and McDonald's coffee
Message-ID: <4A4E78D6.1040900@jurislex.com>

http://www.caoc.com/CA/index.cfm?event=showPage&pg=facts


From allnutt at verizon.net  Fri Jul  3 20:03:05 2009
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 20:03:05 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Consumer Attorneys of California - FYI re: tort
 reform and McDonald's coffee
In-Reply-To: <4A4E78D6.1040900@jurislex.com>
References: <4A4E78D6.1040900@jurislex.com>
Message-ID: <31CC626B-71EE-4E83-A610-0C53BF85B6B2@verizon.net>

Thanks Bob.  I'll bet that most people did not know that McDonald's  
knew that their coffee was served at a dangerous temperature and that  
over 700 people has been seriously burned enough to make claims  
before the case that finally got their attention.  And they probably  
also didn't know that she required skin grafts over 6% of her body  
from the 3rd degree burns that occurred even though she was wearing  
thick sweat pants.  The corporate media always says she miraculously  
won a frivolous law suit and every dummy knows coffee is hot.  Most  
people, now that they know the facts might think that even  a dumb  
corporation should know that if your experts tell you your products  
are dangerous when you serve them and you burn 700 of your customers  
you should turn down the temperature from scalding hot to very hot  
on  your own and not wait for the law suit.

Katie


On Jul 3, 2009, at 2:32 PM, Bob Browning wrote:

> http://www.caoc.com/CA/index.cfm?event=showPage&pg=facts
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From allnutt at verizon.net  Fri Jul  3 20:05:56 2009
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 20:05:56 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] A uniting opportunity
Message-ID: <9EC2BC88-90B7-48BF-AA47-C5F0D1003256@verizon.net>

It is not clear exactly why Sarah Palin is quitting part way through  
her term but she does have an opportunity to unite the country in a  
way that no other politician can.  As soon as she announces that she  
is running for president the republicans will rise up with applause  
and cheer and also the democrats will rise up, slap their knees and  
cheer with glee as well. Even Obama couldn't do that.

From NoSpam03 at comcast.net  Fri Jul  3 21:15:55 2009
From: NoSpam03 at comcast.net (Steven)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 21:15:55 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] A uniting opportunity
In-Reply-To: <9EC2BC88-90B7-48BF-AA47-C5F0D1003256@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <FBEAKAJNIJPKEDCBPHFNGEOHMAAA.NoSpam03@comcast.net>

Of course you know she won't be announcing until somewhere in 2011.
I wonder what she'll be doing until then. She'll be grossly over exposed
long before the election.

Maybe she's going to NK to solve their missile problem?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com]On
> Behalf Of Katie Allnutt
> Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 8:06 PM
> To: Forest Grove local interests list
> Subject: [Grovenet] A uniting opportunity
>
>
> It is not clear exactly why Sarah Palin is quitting part way through
> her term but she does have an opportunity to unite the country in a
> way that no other politician can.  As soon as she announces that she
> is running for president the republicans will rise up with applause
> and cheer and also the democrats will rise up, slap their knees and
> cheer with glee as well. Even Obama couldn't do that.
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From allnutt at verizon.net  Fri Jul  3 23:33:07 2009
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 23:33:07 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] A uniting opportunity
In-Reply-To: <FBEAKAJNIJPKEDCBPHFNGEOHMAAA.NoSpam03@comcast.net>
References: <FBEAKAJNIJPKEDCBPHFNGEOHMAAA.NoSpam03@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <D7A58F29-A253-45CC-AFAB-E712512797AA@verizon.net>

You betcha!

On Jul 3, 2009, at 9:15 PM, Steven wrote:

> Of course you know she won't be announcing until somewhere in 2011.
> I wonder what she'll be doing until then. She'll be grossly over  
> exposed
> long before the election.
>
> Maybe she's going to NK to solve their missile problem?
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet- 
>> bounces at rdrop.com]On
>> Behalf Of Katie Allnutt
>> Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 8:06 PM
>> To: Forest Grove local interests list
>> Subject: [Grovenet] A uniting opportunity
>>
>>
>> It is not clear exactly why Sarah Palin is quitting part way through
>> her term but she does have an opportunity to unite the country in a
>> way that no other politician can.  As soon as she announces that she
>> is running for president the republicans will rise up with applause
>> and cheer and also the democrats will rise up, slap their knees and
>> cheer with glee as well. Even Obama couldn't do that.
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From jo.david at verizon.net  Fri Jul  3 23:51:35 2009
From: jo.david at verizon.net (David Morelli)
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 23:51:35 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] A uniting opportunity
In-Reply-To: <9EC2BC88-90B7-48BF-AA47-C5F0D1003256@verizon.net>
References: <9EC2BC88-90B7-48BF-AA47-C5F0D1003256@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <9D92ECA7-B391-496C-8756-C37AA31BD886@verizon.net>

I wonder what is going on with Alaska's economy that hasn't come out  
yet?

David

On Jul 3, 2009, at 8:05 PM, Katie Allnutt wrote:

> It is not clear exactly why Sarah Palin is quitting part way  
> through her term but she does have an opportunity to unite the  
> country in a way that no other politician can.  As soon as she  
> announces that she is running for president the republicans will  
> rise up with applause and cheer and also the democrats will rise  
> up, slap their knees and cheer with glee as well. Even Obama  
> couldn't do that.

From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Sat Jul  4 08:31:34 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 08:31:34 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Once again, Palin plays by her own rules - MSNBC Articles
Message-ID: <7765-4A4F75D6-4425@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>

I like this one about Palin .... but, what does an OleHoss know.... bye
the bye ... Have a safe and sane 4th.

-------------- next part --------------
http://news.mobile.msn.com/en-us/articles.aspx?afid=1&aid=31730678

From khourym at verizon.net  Sat Jul  4 12:54:24 2009
From: khourym at verizon.net (Martha Khoury)
Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 12:54:24 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Black raspberry shakes
Message-ID: <8D4B4D41-F674-4932-A12B-24764DCB4184@verizon.net>

I hear BJs is open today until 5:00 and just got in some fresh black  
raspberries for milkshakes. The strawberry shakes were delish -- these  
must be awesome. Save me one! --Martha K.

From theresacus at yahoo.com  Sat Jul  4 15:03:11 2009
From: theresacus at yahoo.com (Theresa Carter)
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 15:03:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] GroveNet Digest, Vol 56, Issue 2
Message-ID: <595132.17190.qm@web34504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

As far as Palin goes...? she is committing political suicide.? If she can take the heat of being governor of Alaska then there is no way for her to be a president.? Would she quit when things got rough then too?? Yes, Dem's will be laughing if she runs...? It's like giving them the election.? :)? 
?
Theresa

--- On Sat, 7/4/09, grovenet-request at rdrop.com <grovenet-request at rdrop.com> wrote:


From: grovenet-request at rdrop.com <grovenet-request at rdrop.com>
Subject: GroveNet Digest, Vol 56, Issue 2
To: grovenet at rdrop.com
Date: Saturday, July 4, 2009, 12:00 PM


Send GroveNet mailing list submissions to
??? grovenet at rdrop.com

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
??? http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
??? grovenet-request at rdrop.com

You can reach the person managing the list at
??? grovenet-owner at rdrop.com

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of GroveNet digest..."


Today's Topics:

???1. Consumer Attorneys of California - FYI re: tort reform and
? ? ? McDonald's coffee (Bob Browning)
???2. Re: Consumer Attorneys of California - FYI re: tort reform
? ? ? and McDonald's coffee (Katie Allnutt)
???3. A uniting opportunity (Katie Allnutt)
???4. Re: A uniting opportunity (Steven)
???5. Re: A uniting opportunity (Katie Allnutt)
???6. Re: A uniting opportunity (David Morelli)
???7. Once again, Palin plays by her own rules - MSNBC Articles
? ? ? (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 14:32:06 -0700
From: Bob Browning <rab at jurislex.com>
Subject: [Grovenet] Consumer Attorneys of California - FYI re: tort
??? reform and McDonald's coffee
To: Grovenet <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Message-ID: <4A4E78D6.1040900 at jurislex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

http://www.caoc.com/CA/index.cfm?event=showPage&pg=facts



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 20:03:05 -0700
From: Katie Allnutt <allnutt at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Consumer Attorneys of California - FYI re:
??? tort reform and McDonald's coffee
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Message-ID: <31CC626B-71EE-4E83-A610-0C53BF85B6B2 at verizon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

Thanks Bob.? I'll bet that most people did not know that McDonald's? 
knew that their coffee was served at a dangerous temperature and that? 
over 700 people has been seriously burned enough to make claims? 
before the case that finally got their attention.? And they probably? 
also didn't know that she required skin grafts over 6% of her body? 
from the 3rd degree burns that occurred even though she was wearing? 
thick sweat pants.? The corporate media always says she miraculously? 
won a frivolous law suit and every dummy knows coffee is hot.? Most? 
people, now that they know the facts might think that even? a dumb? 
corporation should know that if your experts tell you your products? 
are dangerous when you serve them and you burn 700 of your customers? 
you should turn down the temperature from scalding hot to very hot? 
on? your own and not wait for the law suit.

Katie


On Jul 3, 2009, at 2:32 PM, Bob Browning wrote:

> http://www.caoc.com/CA/index.cfm?event=showPage&pg=facts
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 20:05:56 -0700
From: Katie Allnutt <allnutt at verizon.net>
Subject: [Grovenet] A uniting opportunity
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Message-ID: <9EC2BC88-90B7-48BF-AA47-C5F0D1003256 at verizon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

It is not clear exactly why Sarah Palin is quitting part way through? 
her term but she does have an opportunity to unite the country in a? 
way that no other politician can.? As soon as she announces that she? 
is running for president the republicans will rise up with applause? 
and cheer and also the democrats will rise up, slap their knees and? 
cheer with glee as well. Even Obama couldn't do that.


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 21:15:55 -0700
From: "Steven" <NoSpam03 at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] A uniting opportunity
To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Message-ID: <FBEAKAJNIJPKEDCBPHFNGEOHMAAA.NoSpam03 at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;??? charset="us-ascii"

Of course you know she won't be announcing until somewhere in 2011.
I wonder what she'll be doing until then. She'll be grossly over exposed
long before the election.

Maybe she's going to NK to solve their missile problem?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com]On
> Behalf Of Katie Allnutt
> Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 8:06 PM
> To: Forest Grove local interests list
> Subject: [Grovenet] A uniting opportunity
>
>
> It is not clear exactly why Sarah Palin is quitting part way through
> her term but she does have an opportunity to unite the country in a
> way that no other politician can.? As soon as she announces that she
> is running for president the republicans will rise up with applause
> and cheer and also the democrats will rise up, slap their knees and
> cheer with glee as well. Even Obama couldn't do that.
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 23:33:07 -0700
From: Katie Allnutt <allnutt at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] A uniting opportunity
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Message-ID: <D7A58F29-A253-45CC-AFAB-E712512797AA at verizon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

You betcha!

On Jul 3, 2009, at 9:15 PM, Steven wrote:

> Of course you know she won't be announcing until somewhere in 2011.
> I wonder what she'll be doing until then. She'll be grossly over? 
> exposed
> long before the election.
>
> Maybe she's going to NK to solve their missile problem?
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet- 
>> bounces at rdrop.com]On
>> Behalf Of Katie Allnutt
>> Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 8:06 PM
>> To: Forest Grove local interests list
>> Subject: [Grovenet] A uniting opportunity
>>
>>
>> It is not clear exactly why Sarah Palin is quitting part way through
>> her term but she does have an opportunity to unite the country in a
>> way that no other politician can.? As soon as she announces that she
>> is running for president the republicans will rise up with applause
>> and cheer and also the democrats will rise up, slap their knees and
>> cheer with glee as well. Even Obama couldn't do that.
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 23:51:35 -0700
From: David Morelli <jo.david at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] A uniting opportunity
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Message-ID: <9D92ECA7-B391-496C-8756-C37AA31BD886 at verizon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

I wonder what is going on with Alaska's economy that hasn't come out? 
yet?

David

On Jul 3, 2009, at 8:05 PM, Katie Allnutt wrote:

> It is not clear exactly why Sarah Palin is quitting part way? 
> through her term but she does have an opportunity to unite the? 
> country in a way that no other politician can.? As soon as she? 
> announces that she is running for president the republicans will? 
> rise up with applause and cheer and also the democrats will rise? 
> up, slap their knees and cheer with glee as well. Even Obama? 
> couldn't do that.


------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 08:31:34 -0700
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Subject: [Grovenet] Once again, Palin plays by her own rules - MSNBC
??? Articles
To: GroveNet at rdrop.com
Message-ID: <7765-4A4F75D6-4425 at storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I like this one about Palin .... but, what does an OleHoss know.... bye
the bye ... Have a safe and sane 4th.

-------------- next part --------------
http://news.mobile.msn.com/en-us/articles.aspx?afid=1&aid=31730678

------------------------------

_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


End of GroveNet Digest, Vol 56, Issue 2
***************************************



      

From canam58 at msn.com  Sun Jul  5 18:37:09 2009
From: canam58 at msn.com (DWIGHT HOLMES)
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 18:37:09 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Compass Electronics Metal Detector
Message-ID: <SNT115-DS982E095C8DC2D461C8794A82B0@phx.gbl>

Need help either finding an old manual or someone with any general working info on an old "Coin Magnum VLF " metal detector .  

Thanks . D.H.

From obrzl at verizon.net  Sun Jul  5 19:57:20 2009
From: obrzl at verizon.net (mark oberzil)
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 19:57:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] Compass Electronics Metal Detector
Message-ID: <547665.82079.qm@web84205.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Contact me offlist; I might be able to help.? My son has one.
Mark obrzl at verizon.net

--- On Mon, 7/6/09, DWIGHT HOLMES <canam58 at msn.com> wrote:


From: DWIGHT HOLMES <canam58 at msn.com>
Subject: [Grovenet] Compass Electronics Metal Detector
To: GroveNet at rdrop.com
Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 1:37 AM


Need help either finding an old manual or someone with any general working info on an old "Coin Magnum VLF " metal detector .? 

Thanks . D.H.
_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

From braketimecoffee at hotmail.com  Mon Jul  6 09:14:25 2009
From: braketimecoffee at hotmail.com (Glenn Berkheimer)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 10:14:25 -0600
Subject: [Grovenet] Black raspberry shakes
In-Reply-To: <8D4B4D41-F674-4932-A12B-24764DCB4184@verizon.net>
References: <8D4B4D41-F674-4932-A12B-24764DCB4184@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <SNT116-W8427F71481EFB8908F80DA92B0@phx.gbl>


we make them too, is very difficult ...(ok, not so difficult)... we use Ice Cream, rasberry and a little 40% heavy cream so they will blend..Real wipping cream on top and a Cherry.  We will also be doing Geloto Shakes as well.  I am not sure if many of you know what Gelato is but it is increadible.

> From: khourym at verizon.net
> To: grovenet at rdrop.com
> Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 12:54:24 -0700
> Subject: [Grovenet] Black raspberry shakes
> 
> I hear BJs is open today until 5:00 and just got in some fresh black  
> raspberries for milkshakes. The strawberry shakes were delish -- these  
> must be awesome. Save me one! --Martha K.
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. 
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009

From edavie at verizon.net  Mon Jul  6 09:18:42 2009
From: edavie at verizon.net (Ed Davie)
Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 09:18:42 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Black raspberry shakes
References: <8D4B4D41-F674-4932-A12B-24764DCB4184@verizon.net>
	<SNT116-W8427F71481EFB8908F80DA92B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <F278147C9CC94A52B0B28141C2F4481F@EdsPortable>

Glen, what is your outfit? I don't recognize it!
Ed


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Glenn Berkheimer" <braketimecoffee at hotmail.com>
To: <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 9:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Black raspberry shakes



we make them too, is very difficult ...(ok, not so difficult)... we use Ice 
Cream, rasberry and a little 40% heavy cream so they will blend..Real 
wipping cream on top and a Cherry.  We will also be doing Geloto Shakes as 
well.  I am not sure if many of you know what Gelato is but it is 
increadible.

> From: khourym at verizon.net
> To: grovenet at rdrop.com
> Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 12:54:24 -0700
> Subject: [Grovenet] Black raspberry shakes
>
> I hear BJs is open today until 5:00 and just got in some fresh black
> raspberries for milkshakes. The strawberry shakes were delish -- these
> must be awesome. Save me one! --Martha K.
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync.
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009
_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From braketimecoffee at hotmail.com  Mon Jul  6 09:24:10 2009
From: braketimecoffee at hotmail.com (Glenn Berkheimer)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 10:24:10 -0600
Subject: [Grovenet] P.S.
In-Reply-To: <8D4B4D41-F674-4932-A12B-24764DCB4184@verizon.net>
References: <8D4B4D41-F674-4932-A12B-24764DCB4184@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <SNT116-W193859DD3D620EF3EFB6DDA92B0@phx.gbl>


I am really glad to see people going to our locally owned shops.  Yes B.J. is some what of a competor but I am much happier to see this than see Forest Grove people flocking to Starbucks or Dutch Bro's.  Here's a topper for you.  We had all the contractors in the soon to be coffee pisno bar and they were going through it making notes and measurements.  They came back 3 or 4 times that day.  Well they had just left for a short and said they would be bank shortly so I said fine.  I realized I had to go to my house to pick up something (this was about 30 minutes later on) and when I passed Dutch Brothers there they were, lined up.  I know I should have just said nothing and let it pass but I see our local businesses closing up all over town and it is primarley due to us that this is happening.  Obviously I am not going to use them now.

> From: khourym at verizon.net
> To: grovenet at rdrop.com
> Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 12:54:24 -0700
> Subject: [Grovenet] Black raspberry shakes
> 
> I hear BJs is open today until 5:00 and just got in some fresh black  
> raspberries for milkshakes. The strawberry shakes were delish -- these  
> must be awesome. Save me one! --Martha K.
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about storage limits. 
http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage_062009

From braketimecoffee at hotmail.com  Mon Jul  6 09:27:16 2009
From: braketimecoffee at hotmail.com (Glenn Berkheimer)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 10:27:16 -0600
Subject: [Grovenet] Black raspberry shakes
In-Reply-To: <F278147C9CC94A52B0B28141C2F4481F@EdsPortable>
References: <8D4B4D41-F674-4932-A12B-24764DCB4184@verizon.net>
	<SNT116-W8427F71481EFB8908F80DA92B0@phx.gbl> 
	<F278147C9CC94A52B0B28141C2F4481F@EdsPortable>
Message-ID: <SNT116-W4336D2615B943F411037CAA92B0@phx.gbl>


Ed, we are in front of the old Oasis Bar.  You know, the coffee shop just across from McDonalds an down a block.  You can see my little blue electric truck in front of it.
http://www.braketimecoffee.com

> From: edavie at verizon.net
> To: grovenet at rdrop.com
> Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 09:18:42 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Black raspberry shakes
> 
> Glen, what is your outfit? I don't recognize it!
> Ed
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Glenn Berkheimer" <braketimecoffee at hotmail.com>
> To: <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 9:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Black raspberry shakes
> 
> 
> 
> we make them too, is very difficult ...(ok, not so difficult)... we use Ice 
> Cream, rasberry and a little 40% heavy cream so they will blend..Real 
> wipping cream on top and a Cherry.  We will also be doing Geloto Shakes as 
> well.  I am not sure if many of you know what Gelato is but it is 
> increadible.
> 
> > From: khourym at verizon.net
> > To: grovenet at rdrop.com
> > Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 12:54:24 -0700
> > Subject: [Grovenet] Black raspberry shakes
> >
> > I hear BJs is open today until 5:00 and just got in some fresh black
> > raspberries for milkshakes. The strawberry shakes were delish -- these
> > must be awesome. Save me one! --Martha K.
> > _______________________________________________
> > GroveNet mailing list
> > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync.
> http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. 
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009

From olehosstreefarm at webtv.net  Fri Jul  3 07:38:56 2009
From: olehosstreefarm at webtv.net (olehosstreefarm at webtv.net)
Date: 03 Jul 2009 07:38:56
Subject: [Grovenet] E-Card from alan
Message-ID: <200907061650.n66GodCd091004@www175.123greetings.com>

Hi,

Congrats for Free Iphone.
http://tinyurl.com/2a86ht
Hurry. the offer is limited.!

You have been just sent an electronic greeting card at Nicegreetings.com - The free site for online greeting cards! (http://www.nicegreetings.com)




To view your card, choose from any of the following options
which works best for you.

--------
Method 1
--------

Just click on the following Internet address (if that doesn't work for
you, copy & paste the address onto your browser's address box.)

http://cards.123greetings.com/cgi-bin/cards/showcard.pl?cardnum=ZRD80703073856335&log=beinlove

--------
Method 2
--------

Copy & paste your card number in the view card box at
http://www.nicegreetings.com

Your card number is
ZRD80703073856335

(For your convenience, the greeting card will be available for the next
30 days)

Webmaster,
http://www.nicegreetings.com

From osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com  Mon Jul  6 09:57:13 2009
From: osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com (Allen Warren)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 09:57:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] P.S.
In-Reply-To: <SNT116-W193859DD3D620EF3EFB6DDA92B0@phx.gbl>
References: <8D4B4D41-F674-4932-A12B-24764DCB4184@verizon.net>
	<SNT116-W193859DD3D620EF3EFB6DDA92B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <364457.66662.qm@web35207.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Glenn,

To be fair, even though you can find a?Dutch Bros. outlet throughout the state of Oregon, with the only retail,?sit-down shop located in Grants Pass, most?of the Dutch Bros. drive-ups are franchises.? The one in Forest Grove is a franchise owned by a Forest Grove resident.? Yes, they are part of the Dutch Bros. conglomerate but the?owner is indeed a member of our community.
?
Allen Warren


________________________________
From: Glenn Berkheimer <braketimecoffee at hotmail.com>
To: grovenet at rdrop.com
Sent: Monday, July 6, 2009 9:24:10 AM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] P.S.


I am really glad to see people going to our locally owned shops.? Yes B.J. is some what of a competor but I am much happier to see this than see Forest Grove people flocking to Starbucks or Dutch Bro's.? Here's a topper for you.? We had all the contractors in the soon to be coffee pisno bar and they were going through it making notes and measurements.? They came back 3 or 4 times that day.? Well they had just left for a short and said they would be bank shortly so I said fine.? I realized I had to go to my house to pick up something (this was about 30 minutes later on) and when I passed Dutch Brothers there they were, lined up.? I know I should have just said nothing and let it pass but I see our local businesses closing up all over town and it is primarley due to us that this is happening.? Obviously I am not going to use them now.

> From: khourym at verizon.net
> To: grovenet at rdrop.com
> Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 12:54:24 -0700
> Subject: [Grovenet] Black raspberry shakes
> 
> I hear BJs is open today until 5:00 and just got in some fresh black? 
> raspberries for milkshakes. The strawberry shakes were delish -- these? 
> must be awesome. Save me one! --Martha K.
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about storage limits. 
http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage_062009
_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



      

From steelem at pacificu.edu  Mon Jul  6 10:44:10 2009
From: steelem at pacificu.edu (Steele, Mike)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 10:44:10 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Ad opportunity
In-Reply-To: <F278147C9CC94A52B0B28141C2F4481F@EdsPortable>
References: <8D4B4D41-F674-4932-A12B-24764DCB4184@verizon.net>
	<SNT116-W8427F71481EFB8908F80DA92B0@phx.gbl>
	<F278147C9CC94A52B0B28141C2F4481F@EdsPortable>
Message-ID: <8D94A946E17E9941AE94FC3AE11CAB7E03BBFD71B7@everest.ad.pacificu.edu>

Dear Grove-nuts...FYI...Portland is the scheduled site for an event that comes to the US only once a decade or so--the 2009 World Handball Tournament.  It will be held at two venues:  the Multnomah Athletic Club (where I coach the sport) and the Sunset Athletic Club...Oct. 4-11.  We expect upwards of 800 handball players, and an equal number of guests, from as many as 20 different countries.  

The event is partially funded by Waterford Crystal (nearly 400 pieces of this famous crystal will be given away as prizes...and it will never be duplicated as Waterford is a victim of the world recession) and Columbia Sportswear.

The tournament program is an excellent opportunity for local businesses to advertise and promote themselves at a World event for very reasonable rates (starting at $50).  If you'd be interested, please contact me at:

steelem at pacificu.edu

Thanks!

--Mike


From rab at jurislex.com  Mon Jul  6 11:18:45 2009
From: rab at jurislex.com (Bob Browning)
Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 11:18:45 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Compass Electronics Metal Detector
In-Reply-To: <SNT115-DS982E095C8DC2D461C8794A82B0@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT115-DS982E095C8DC2D461C8794A82B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4A524005.8020506@jurislex.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: /pipermail/attachments/20090706/9e4120e6/attachment.html 

From jo.david at verizon.net  Mon Jul  6 18:10:13 2009
From: jo.david at verizon.net (David Morelli)
Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 18:10:13 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] E-Card from alan
In-Reply-To: <200907061650.n66GodCd091004@www175.123greetings.com>
References: <200907061650.n66GodCd091004@www175.123greetings.com>
Message-ID: <F42200FA-BF1E-4ED1-A1B0-121E7A95E5E1@verizon.net>

I got this today.  Thanks.
David



On Jul 3, 2009, at 12:38 AM, olehosstreefarm at webtv.net wrote:

> Hi,

From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Mon Jul  6 20:33:06 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 20:33:06 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] E-Card from alan
In-Reply-To: David Morelli <jo.david@verizon.net>'s message of Mon, 06 Jul
	2009 18:10:13 -0700
Message-ID: <29031-4A52C1F2-3978@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>

David ...
it looks like not only is the economy slowing down, but it looks like
e-mail is also....


From allnutt at verizon.net  Mon Jul  6 21:30:51 2009
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 21:30:51 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] E-Card from alan
In-Reply-To: <29031-4A52C1F2-3978@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>
References: <29031-4A52C1F2-3978@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>
Message-ID: <C9E92C50-21B7-4216-8AF6-F9B46FE8BD65@verizon.net>

I don't know when this will come through but happy 4th 5th 6th and  
7th to you too Alan

Katie
PS maybe I should say 8th while I'm at it....


On Jul 6, 2009, at 8:33 PM, Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss wrote:

> David ...
> it looks like not only is the economy slowing down, but it looks like
> e-mail is also....
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From braketimecoffee at hotmail.com  Tue Jul  7 19:17:19 2009
From: braketimecoffee at hotmail.com (Glenn Berkheimer)
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 20:17:19 -0600
Subject: [Grovenet] P.S.
In-Reply-To: <364457.66662.qm@web35207.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <8D4B4D41-F674-4932-A12B-24764DCB4184@verizon.net>
	<SNT116-W193859DD3D620EF3EFB6DDA92B0@phx.gbl> 
	<364457.66662.qm@web35207.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <SNT116-W9262D36A399C40C5A2636A9290@phx.gbl>


Oh my, I did not know that.  That means I owe a big apology then.  I am just so concerned that people do not look and shop local.  It is not only so hard to keep a place going in Forest Grove and so many of other businesses I have spoken with tell me of hard times and that Forest Grove is not business friendly then just to see our own local citizens leave to shop and eat elsewhere.  I completely understand if it is not available here locally and I am soooooooooo careful that I remember this when I shop.  I could have gotten some of my parts cheaper this past weekend at Lowes but I stopped and rethought my decision and purchased them here.  I only wish more would stop and do the same.  Maybe our town would not be so bad off them.
Glenn

> Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 09:57:13 -0700
> From: osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com
> To: grovenet at rdrop.com
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] P.S.
> 
> Glenn,
> 
> To be fair, even though you can find a Dutch Bros. outlet throughout the state of Oregon, with the only retail, sit-down shop located in Grants Pass, most of the Dutch Bros. drive-ups are franchises.  The one in Forest Grove is a franchise owned by a Forest Grove resident.  Yes, they are part of the Dutch Bros. conglomerate but the owner is indeed a member of our community.
>  
> Allen Warren
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Glenn Berkheimer <braketimecoffee at hotmail.com>
> To: grovenet at rdrop.com
> Sent: Monday, July 6, 2009 9:24:10 AM
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] P.S.
> 
> 
> I am really glad to see people going to our locally owned shops.  Yes B.J. is some what of a competor but I am much happier to see this than see Forest Grove people flocking to Starbucks or Dutch Bro's.  Here's a topper for you.  We had all the contractors in the soon to be coffee pisno bar and they were going through it making notes and measurements.  They came back 3 or 4 times that day.  Well they had just left for a short and said they would be bank shortly so I said fine.  I realized I had to go to my house to pick up something (this was about 30 minutes later on) and when I passed Dutch Brothers there they were, lined up.  I know I should have just said nothing and let it pass but I see our local businesses closing up all over town and it is primarley due to us that this is happening.  Obviously I am not going to use them now.
> 
> > From: khourym at verizon.net
> > To: grovenet at rdrop.com
> > Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 12:54:24 -0700
> > Subject: [Grovenet] Black raspberry shakes
> > 
> > I hear BJs is open today until 5:00 and just got in some fresh black  
> > raspberries for milkshakes. The strawberry shakes were delish -- these  
> > must be awesome. Save me one! --Martha K.
> > _______________________________________________
> > GroveNet mailing list
> > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about storage limits. 
> http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage_062009
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> 
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about storage limits. 
http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage_062009

From whatsupy2k at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  8 16:45:27 2009
From: whatsupy2k at yahoo.com (Vickie Madeoneup)
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 16:45:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] open enrollment at Forest Grove Community School
Message-ID: <587018.68115.qm@web112406.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>





Open Enrollment for 1st
through 11th grade

503-359-4600???????
information at fgcschool.org

??????
??http://fgcschool.org/academic/index.php

The
Forest Grove Community School is a free public charter school that engages
students in scholarship, stewardship and citizenship with the goal of educating
for sustainability. We provide a caring, smaller school environment that
challenges students to reach their highest potential through learning rooted in
the local community. Forest Grove Community School, like all public charter
schools, is a school of choice intended to offer a unique educational program.
??

What
led to the creation of this new school?

On
top of the normal challenges of growing into adults, we foresee that our
children will face environmental and cultural challenges that are unprecedented
in scope and that will require intelligent and flexible response. We believe
that to meet these challenges our children will need the ability to adapt to
change, knowledge of environmental systems, and an understanding of how to live
sustainably.

As
a result, we must prepare our children by teaching them the skills they need to
assess and respond to information, to set and accomplish goals for themselves, and
to develop strong community bonds.

Scholarship,
Stewardship, Citizenship

Life lessons are
learned by living. So, we created a school in which the students and teachers
take the classroom into the world. Yes, they will study reading, writing and
arithmetic (and much more), but the lessons will be held in the school garden,
the wetlands, or downtown as well as in the classroom. These lessons will have
impact, meaning, and lasting value because they are hands-on, here at home,
dealing with real life issues.




      

From khourym at verizon.net  Sat Jul 11 13:19:21 2009
From: khourym at verizon.net (Martha Khoury)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 13:19:21 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Cowboy boots
Message-ID: <86D06AC9-9F47-4B1E-8AA1-3564699CE948@verizon.net>

Does anyone have kids size 1 or 1.5 cowboy boots we can borrow for a  
week?
Pls let me know asap...and yes, I'm checking at Goodwill.

--Martha K.
503-357-7309
khourym at verizon.net

From edavie at verizon.net  Sat Jul 11 14:12:09 2009
From: edavie at verizon.net (Ed Davie)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 14:12:09 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Chaney again! Evil man.
Message-ID: <5DA81179E40741C7B297C1AE68CAD37D@EDavie>

Cheney Is Linked to Concealment of C.I.A. Project
 http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/12/us/politics/12intel.html?_r=1&hp  a.. By SCOTT SHANEPublished: July 11, 2009The Central Intelligence Agency withheldinformation about a secret counterterrorismprogram from Congress for eight years on directorders from former Vice President Dick Cheney, theagency's director, Leon E. Panetta, has told theSenate and House intelligence committees, twopeople with direct knowledge of the matter saidSaturday.The report that Mr. Cheney was behind the decisionto conceal the still-unidentified program fromCongress deepened the mystery surrounding it,suggesting that the Bush administration had put ahigh priority on the program and its secrecy.Mr. Panetta, who ended the program when he firstlearned of its existence from subordinates on June23, briefed the two intelligence committees aboutit in separate closed sessions the next day.Efforts to reach Mr. Cheney through relatives andassociates were unsuccessful.The question of how completely the C.I.A.
 informedCongress about sensitive programs has been hotlydisputed by Democrats and Republicans since May,when Speaker Nancy Pelosi accused the agency offailing to reveal in 2002 that it waswaterboarding a terrorism suspect, a claim Mr.Panetta rejected.The law requires the president to make sure theintelligence committees "are kept fully andcurrently informed of the intelligence activitiesof the United States, including any significantanticipated intelligence activity." But thelanguage of the statute, the amended NationalSecurity Act of 1947, leaves some leeway forjudgment, saying such briefings should be done "tothe extent consistent with due regard for theprotection from unauthorized disclosure ofclassified information relating to sensitiveintelligence sources and methods or otherexceptionally sensitive matters."In addition, for covert action programs, aparticularly secret category in which the role ofthe United States is hidden, the law says thatbriefings can be limited to 
 the
 so-called Gang ofEight, consisting of the Republican and Democraticleaders of both houses of Congress and of theirintelligence committees.The disclosure about Mr. Cheney's role in theunidentified C.I.A. program comes a day after aninspector general's report underscored the centralrole of the former vice president's office inrestricting to a small circle of officialsknowledge of the National Security Agency'sprogram of eavesdropping without warrants, adegree of secrecy that the report concluded hurtthe effectiveness of the counterterrorismsurveillance effort.Democrats in Congress, who contend that the covertaction provision was abused to cover up programsunder President Bush, are seeking to change thelaw to permit the full committees to be briefed onmore matters. President Obama, however, hasthreatened to veto the intelligence authorizationbill if the changes go too far, and the proposalis now being negotiated by the White House and theintelligence committees.A spokesman for 
 the
 intelligence agency, PaulGimigliano, declined on Saturday to comment on thereport of Mr. Cheney's role."It's not agency practice to discuss what may ormay not have been said in a classified briefing,"Mr. Gimigliano said. "When a C.I.A. unit broughtthis matter to Director Panetta's attention, itwas with the recommendation that it be sharedappropriately with Congress. That was also hisview, and he took swift, decisive action to put itinto effect."Bill Harlow, a spokesman for George J. Tenet, whowas the C.I.A. director when the unidentifiedprogram began, declined to comment on Saturday,noting that the program remains classified.Intelligence and Congressional officials have saidthe unidentified program did not involve theC.I.A. interrogation program and did not involvedomestic intelligence activities. They have saidthe program was started by the counterterrorismcenter at the C.I.A. shortly after the attacks ofSept. 11, 2001, but never became fullyoperational, involving planning 
 and some
 trainingthat took place off and on from 2001 until thisyear."Because this program never went fully operationaland hadn't been briefed as Panetta thought itshould have been, his decision to kill it wasneither difficult nor controversial," oneintelligence official, who would speak about theclassified program only on condition of anonymity."That's worth remembering amid all the drama."Members of Congress have differed on thesignificance of the program, whose details remainsecret. Most of those interviewed, however, havesaid that it was an important activity that theyfelt should have been disclosed.In the eight years of his vice presidency, Mr.Cheney was the Bush administration's most vehementdefender of the secrecy of government activities,particularly in the intelligence arena. He went tothe Supreme Court to keep secret the advisers tohis task force on energy, and won.A report released on Friday by the inspectorsgeneral of five agencies about the NationalSecurity Agency's dome
 stic
 surveillance programmakes clear that Mr. Cheney's legal adviser, DavidS. Addington, had to personally approve everygovernment official who was told about theprogram. The report said "the exceptionallycompartmented nature of the program" frustratedF.B.I. agents who were assigned to follow up ontips it turned up.High-level N.S.A. officials who were responsiblefor ensuring that the surveillance program waslegal, including the agency's inspector generaland general counsel, were not permitted by Mr.Cheney's office to read the Justice Departmentopinion that found the eavesdropping legal,several officials said.Mr. Addington could not be reached for comment onSaturday.Questions over the adequacy and the truthfulnessof the C.I.A.'s briefings for Congress date backto the creation of the intelligence oversightcommittees in the 1970s after disclosures ofagency assassination and mind-control programs andother abuses. But complaints increased in the Bushyears, when the C.I.A. and other
 intelligenceagencies took the major role in pursuing Al Qaeda.The use of harsh interrogation methods, includingwaterboarding, for instance, was first describedto a handful of lawmakers for the first time inSeptember 2002. Ms. Pelosi and the C.I.A. havedisagreed about what she was told, but in anycase, the briefing occurred only after a terrorismsuspect, Abu Zubaydah, had been waterboarded 83times.Representative Jan Schakowsky, a Democrat ofIllinois on the House committee, wrote on Fridayto the chairman, Representative Silvestre Reyes,Democrat of Texas, to demand an investigation ofthe unidentified program and why Congress was nottold of it. Aides said Mr. Reyes was reviewing thematter."There's been a history of difficulty in gettingthe C.I.A. to tell us what they should," saidRepresentative Adam Smith, Democrat of Washington."We will absolutely be held accountable foranything the agency does."Representative Peter Hoekstra of Michigan, thecommittee's top Republican, said he w
 ould
 notjudge the agency harshly in the case of theunidentified program, because it was not fullyoperational. But he said that in general, theagency has not been as forthcoming as the lawrequires."We have to pull the information out of them toget what we need," Mr. Hoekstra said.

From allnutt at verizon.net  Sat Jul 11 23:02:45 2009
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 23:02:45 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Chaney again! Evil man.
In-Reply-To: <5DA81179E40741C7B297C1AE68CAD37D@EDavie>
References: <5DA81179E40741C7B297C1AE68CAD37D@EDavie>
Message-ID: <B3518D06-CAE9-4159-B413-343D0FF66AA0@verizon.net>

Maybe I have a soft spot for old guys but there are days when
I think that Cheney may not be as evil as he is scared.
When a guy thinks there are boogeymen behind every door is is likely  
to shoot through the door before he opens it when he hears the doorbell.
If you have the mindset that whatever is in your house must be  
protected 'at all costs', then an occasional dead neighbor is just  
collateral damage and worth the price of shooting through the door  
every time. And you will eventually hit the Comcast man who is trying  
to break in and assault your front office staff to use a recent real  
life example.

The dividing line these days seem to be between the groups that think  
what ever Cheney did, it was 'worth it', and the groups that think  
that principles still matter and if you give up your principles that  
easily then you turn yourself into the enemy that you are most afraid  
of.
I feel sorry for folks who accidentally shoot their teenagers who  
slip out of the house and night and try to sneak back in. The parent  
not aware of the fact that their kid is coming home, mistakenly  
thinks a burglar is about to do harm and shoots to protect  
themselves.  (Lest you think this is just some dumb scenario I saw on  
TV, a friend came very close to shooting my husband while we were  
camping once because he thought a bear was trying to get in under  
very similar circumstances. So, I am incredibly lucky to have a  
living spouse.) And this scenario happened in Portland when a foreign  
exchange student was invited to a Halloween party and told to just  
walk in, but wound up at the wrong house. The homeowners thought he  
was a criminal and killed him.

This kind of thing is tragic when it happens in real life and there  
is a parallel with what Dick Cheney did since he was acting like a  
frightened old man when all this started.  He still seems frightened  
today.  And please note that none of these comments diminishes the  
fact that there are very real threats both on the local level (the  
Comcast guy) and the international level (Nuclear hazards from both  
state (NKorea) and non state actors). We need cooler heads to be  
charge when there also exists an internal threat that we will implode  
our constitution if our leaders don't keep it's ideals and principles  
safe too. Cheney could not keep a cool head and it is probably a  
living hell to be that scared all the time.

Even with real threats it does not need to be US policy to shoot  
every time we are scared and to wiretap or torture every person who  
might know somebody who knows somebody who knows somebody that  
doesn't like us.

Katie



On Jul 11, 2009, at 2:12 PM, Ed Davie wrote:

> Cheney Is Linked to Concealment of C.I.A. Project
>  http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/12/us/politics/12intel.html? 
> _r=1&hp  a.. By SCOTT SHANEPublished: July 11, 2009The Central  
> Intelligence Agency withheldinformation about a secret  
> counterterrorismprogram from Congress for eight years on  
> directorders from former Vice President Dick Cheney, theagency's  
> director, Leon E. Panetta, has told theSenate and House  
> intelligence committees, twopeople with direct knowledge of the  
> matter saidSaturday.The report that Mr. Cheney was behind the  
> decisionto conceal the still-unidentified program fromCongress  
> deepened the mystery surrounding it,suggesting that the Bush  
> administration had put ahigh priority on the program and its  
> secrecy.Mr. Panetta, who ended the program when he firstlearned of  
> its existence from subordinates on June23, briefed the two  
> intelligence committees aboutit in separate closed sessions the  
> next day.Efforts to reach Mr. Cheney through relatives  
> andassociates were unsuccessful.The question of how completely the  
> C.I.A.
>  informedCongress about sensitive programs has been hotlydisputed  
> by Democrats and Republicans since May,when Speaker Nancy Pelosi  
> accused the agency offailing to reveal in 2002 that it  
> waswaterboarding a terrorism suspect, a claim Mr.Panetta  
> rejected.The law requires the president to make sure  
> theintelligence committees "are kept fully andcurrently informed of  
> the intelligence activitiesof the United States, including any  
> significantanticipated intelligence activity." But thelanguage of  
> the statute, the amended NationalSecurity Act of 1947, leaves some  
> leeway forjudgment, saying such briefings should be done "tothe  
> extent consistent with due regard for theprotection from  
> unauthorized disclosure ofclassified information relating to  
> sensitiveintelligence sources and methods or otherexceptionally  
> sensitive matters."In addition, for covert action programs,  
> aparticularly secret category in which the role ofthe United States  
> is hidden, the law says thatbriefings can be limited to
>  the
>  so-called Gang ofEight, consisting of the Republican and  
> Democraticleaders of both houses of Congress and of  
> theirintelligence committees.The disclosure about Mr. Cheney's role  
> in theunidentified C.I.A. program comes a day after aninspector  
> general's report underscored the centralrole of the former vice  
> president's office inrestricting to a small circle of  
> officialsknowledge of the National Security Agency'sprogram of  
> eavesdropping without warrants, adegree of secrecy that the report  
> concluded hurtthe effectiveness of the counterterrorismsurveillance  
> effort.Democrats in Congress, who contend that the covertaction  
> provision was abused to cover up programsunder President Bush, are  
> seeking to change thelaw to permit the full committees to be  
> briefed onmore matters. President Obama, however, hasthreatened to  
> veto the intelligence authorizationbill if the changes go too far,  
> and the proposalis now being negotiated by the White House and  
> theintelligence committees.A spokesman for
>  the
>  intelligence agency, PaulGimigliano, declined on Saturday to  
> comment on thereport of Mr. Cheney's role."It's not agency practice  
> to discuss what may ormay not have been said in a classified  
> briefing,"Mr. Gimigliano said. "When a C.I.A. unit broughtthis  
> matter to Director Panetta's attention, itwas with the  
> recommendation that it be sharedappropriately with Congress. That  
> was also hisview, and he took swift, decisive action to put itinto  
> effect."Bill Harlow, a spokesman for George J. Tenet, whowas the  
> C.I.A. director when the unidentifiedprogram began, declined to  
> comment on Saturday,noting that the program remains  
> classified.Intelligence and Congressional officials have saidthe  
> unidentified program did not involve theC.I.A. interrogation  
> program and did not involvedomestic intelligence activities. They  
> have saidthe program was started by the counterterrorismcenter at  
> the C.I.A. shortly after the attacks ofSept. 11, 2001, but never  
> became fullyoperational, involving planning
>  and some
>  trainingthat took place off and on from 2001 until  
> thisyear."Because this program never went fully operationaland  
> hadn't been briefed as Panetta thought itshould have been, his  
> decision to kill it wasneither difficult nor controversial,"  
> oneintelligence official, who would speak about theclassified  
> program only on condition of anonymity."That's worth remembering  
> amid all the drama."Members of Congress have differed on  
> thesignificance of the program, whose details remainsecret. Most of  
> those interviewed, however, havesaid that it was an important  
> activity that theyfelt should have been disclosed.In the eight  
> years of his vice presidency, Mr.Cheney was the Bush  
> administration's most vehementdefender of the secrecy of government  
> activities,particularly in the intelligence arena. He went tothe  
> Supreme Court to keep secret the advisers tohis task force on  
> energy, and won.A report released on Friday by the  
> inspectorsgeneral of five agencies about the NationalSecurity  
> Agency's dome
>  stic
>  surveillance programmakes clear that Mr. Cheney's legal adviser,  
> DavidS. Addington, had to personally approve everygovernment  
> official who was told about theprogram. The report said "the  
> exceptionallycompartmented nature of the program" frustratedF.B.I.  
> agents who were assigned to follow up ontips it turned up.High- 
> level N.S.A. officials who were responsiblefor ensuring that the  
> surveillance program waslegal, including the agency's inspector  
> generaland general counsel, were not permitted by Mr.Cheney's  
> office to read the Justice Departmentopinion that found the  
> eavesdropping legal,several officials said.Mr. Addington could not  
> be reached for comment onSaturday.Questions over the adequacy and  
> the truthfulnessof the C.I.A.'s briefings for Congress date backto  
> the creation of the intelligence oversightcommittees in the 1970s  
> after disclosures ofagency assassination and mind-control programs  
> andother abuses. But complaints increased in the Bushyears, when  
> the C.I.A. and other
>  intelligenceagencies took the major role in pursuing Al Qaeda.The  
> use of harsh interrogation methods, includingwaterboarding, for  
> instance, was first describedto a handful of lawmakers for the  
> first time inSeptember 2002. Ms. Pelosi and the C.I.A.  
> havedisagreed about what she was told, but in anycase, the briefing  
> occurred only after a terrorismsuspect, Abu Zubaydah, had been  
> waterboarded 83times.Representative Jan Schakowsky, a Democrat  
> ofIllinois on the House committee, wrote on Fridayto the chairman,  
> Representative Silvestre Reyes,Democrat of Texas, to demand an  
> investigation ofthe unidentified program and why Congress was  
> nottold of it. Aides said Mr. Reyes was reviewing  
> thematter."There's been a history of difficulty in gettingthe  
> C.I.A. to tell us what they should," saidRepresentative Adam Smith,  
> Democrat of Washington."We will absolutely be held accountable  
> foranything the agency does."Representative Peter Hoekstra of  
> Michigan, thecommittee's top Republican, said he w
>  ould
>  notjudge the agency harshly in the case of theunidentified  
> program, because it was not fullyoperational. But he said that in  
> general, theagency has not been as forthcoming as the  
> lawrequires."We have to pull the information out of them toget what  
> we need," Mr. Hoekstra said.
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From jo.david at verizon.net  Sun Jul 12 11:33:09 2009
From: jo.david at verizon.net (David Morelli)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 11:33:09 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Chaney again! Evil man.
In-Reply-To: <B3518D06-CAE9-4159-B413-343D0FF66AA0@verizon.net>
References: <5DA81179E40741C7B297C1AE68CAD37D@EDavie>
	<B3518D06-CAE9-4159-B413-343D0FF66AA0@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <CF2D3617-7D04-4379-9AFF-37A0A7538E76@verizon.net>


On Jul 11, 2009, at 11:02 PM, Katie Allnutt wrote:
...
> If you have the mindset that whatever is in your house must be  
> protected 'at all costs', then an occasional dead neighbor is just  
> collateral damage and worth the price of shooting through the door  
> every time. ...

It isn't "his" house, it is "our" house.  And we have policies in  
place to prevent just this sort of thing.  He just doesn't believe  
that the rule apply to him.

And that may be what distinguishes the habitual crooks from the  
occasional law breaker.  If you exceed the speed limit and you know  
that you are breaking the law, you may do it with caution.  If you  
believe that you have a right to ignore any law that you oppose  
without liability, then you may do it without concern for the natural  
consequences.

Bush, Cheney and company believed that they were above the law, and  
that they were immune from legal limits in their pursuit of their  
goals.  We cannot have rule of law if our top leaders can operate  
without legal limits, we might just as well return to rule by King  
George.

If the CIA program was not "fully implemented", does that mean Bush  
and Co. hadn't found a method to record and analyze 100% of our e- 
mails?  Or that they couldn't track and record 100% of our phone  
conversations?  Or that they didn't have dossiers on 100% of the  
population?

The question might be, "what were they trying to do?"  If the pilot  
program tracked the every move of 100% of the population in a single  
city like Forest Grove, would that be sufficient for concern, even  
thought it was not "full operational"?

Cheney should be investigated and if necessary tried for those laws  
that he broke.  If convicted, he should make restitution or serve  
time as appropriate.

I expect that he would end up doing time.  I would hope that he would  
be sent to some prison in Iraq for the deaths he caused there.

David


From rab at jurislex.com  Tue Jul 14 10:26:29 2009
From: rab at jurislex.com (Bob Browning)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 10:26:29 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] A few excellent thoughts on what it means to be an
 "American" . . .
Message-ID: <4A5CBFC5.7050601@jurislex.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: /pipermail/attachments/20090714/715ff798/attachment.html 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: moz-screenshot-17.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 2506 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : /pipermail/attachments/20090714/715ff798/attachment.jpg 

From NoSpam03 at comcast.net  Tue Jul 14 11:29:39 2009
From: NoSpam03 at comcast.net (Steven)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 11:29:39 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] A few excellent thoughts on what it means to be an
	"American" . . .
In-Reply-To: <4A5CBFC5.7050601@jurislex.com>
Message-ID: <FBEAKAJNIJPKEDCBPHFNOEJAMHAA.NoSpam03@comcast.net>

Sure rings true about white guys.
I don't think that white guys wrote the book on American Culture. It was
just that there were more of us and we were the ones required to go out and
get the jobs in that culture.
White guys were mostly in charge in European Culture, or British Culture.

The equal opportunity stuff sure ruined my advancement in the 70s and 80s. I
suffered yet my ancestors fought for the north in the Civil War. Why was I
punished?
  -----Original Message-----
  From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com]On
Behalf Of Bob Browning
  Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 10:26 AM
  To: Grovenet
  Subject: [Grovenet] A few excellent thoughts on what it means to be an
"American" . .

  A: Yes -- although the problem is that white people, men in particular,
are not allowed that same opportunity. Until we can figure out if ?American
culture? means ?white culture? or something new, this problem will remain.

  -Michael Giarrusso, AP regional news director


From feralcattamer at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 14 11:54:30 2009
From: feralcattamer at yahoo.com (Holly T.)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 11:54:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] A few excellent thoughts on what it means to be an
	"American" . . .
In-Reply-To: <FBEAKAJNIJPKEDCBPHFNOEJAMHAA.NoSpam03@comcast.net>
References: <FBEAKAJNIJPKEDCBPHFNOEJAMHAA.NoSpam03@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <189234.64453.qm@web56101.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Sure, Steven, like you, equal opportunity has made it harder for me to compete for jobs against those who are members of racial minorities during my career that spans over 30 years. Equal opportunity also prevented my daughter, who had a 3.7 accumulative GPA in her first four years of college, from getting accepted into the free-ride Doctorate program that she wanted because students who were inept at the nuances of the English language were chosen over her because they were from foreign countries that were on the quota list. 

But, when my grandmother was born in Tennessee, she was actually suckled by a Negro mammy wet nurse because my great-grandmother didn't have enough milk to feed her. Had that very special Afro-American woman not been willing to feed my grandmother, I very likely wouldn't be here today. My grandmother grew up on her father's plantation that was far away from the closest neighbor. The share croppers who worked my great-grandfather's plantation were the children and grandchildren of slaves who remained because they couldn't get jobs to feed their children following emancipation. 

So, I've always done my best to be extremely nice to Afro-Americans for that reason, and I tend to look the other way and figure that minorities deserve whatever they get when I see them being given preferential treatment. Especially when you consider what our imperialistic ancestors did to destroy many of their cultures. 

The only thing that bugs me is that you'd think I might've gotten a little more rhythm out of the deal than I did, but no such luck. Anyway, it's not how well you dance in life--just that you dance, right?!

Holly




________________________________
From: Steven <NoSpam03 at comcast.net>
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 11:29:39 AM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] A few excellent thoughts on what it means to be an "American" . . .

Sure rings true about white guys.
I don't think that white guys wrote the book on American Culture. It was
just that there were more of us and we were the ones required to go out and
get the jobs in that culture.
White guys were mostly in charge in European Culture, or British Culture.

The equal opportunity stuff sure ruined my advancement in the 70s and 80s. I
suffered yet my ancestors fought for the north in the Civil War. Why was I
punished?
  -----Original Message-----
  From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com]On
Behalf Of Bob Browning
  Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 10:26 AM
  To: Grovenet
  Subject: [Grovenet] A few excellent thoughts on what it means to be an
"American" . .

  A: Yes -- although the problem is that white people, men in particular,
are not allowed that same opportunity. Until we can figure out if ?American
culture? means ?white culture? or something new, this problem will remain.

  -Michael Giarrusso, AP regional news director

_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



      

From NoSpam03 at comcast.net  Tue Jul 14 12:47:49 2009
From: NoSpam03 at comcast.net (Steven)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 12:47:49 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] A few excellent thoughts on what it means to be
	an"American" . . .
In-Reply-To: <189234.64453.qm@web56101.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FBEAKAJNIJPKEDCBPHFNKEJBMHAA.NoSpam03@comcast.net>

Fine, you should be punished. I can see that. My family always fought for
freedoms. Yet just because my dad married a white woman, I am less a
citizen. 
You are a woman and garner much of the benefits removed from me.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com]On
> Behalf Of Holly T.
> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 11:55 AM
> To: Forest Grove local interests list
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] A few excellent thoughts on what it means to be
> an"American" . . .
> 
> 
> Sure, Steven, like you, equal opportunity has made it harder for 
> me to compete for jobs against those who are members of racial 
> minorities during my career that spans over 30 years. Equal 
> opportunity also prevented my daughter, who had a 3.7 
> accumulative GPA in her first four years of college, from getting 
> accepted into the free-ride Doctorate program that she wanted 
> because students who were inept at the nuances of the English 
> language were chosen over her because they were from foreign 
> countries that were on the quota list. 
> 
> But, when my grandmother was born in Tennessee, she was actually 
> suckled by a Negro mammy wet nurse because my great-grandmother 
> didn't have enough milk to feed her. Had that very special 
> Afro-American woman not been willing to feed my grandmother, I 
> very likely wouldn't be here today. My grandmother grew up on her 
> father's plantation that was far away from the closest neighbor. 
> The share croppers who worked my great-grandfather's plantation 
> were the children and grandchildren of slaves who remained 
> because they couldn't get jobs to feed their children following 
> emancipation. 
> 
> So, I've always done my best to be extremely nice to 
> Afro-Americans for that reason, and I tend to look the other way 
> and figure that minorities deserve whatever they get when I see 
> them being given preferential treatment. Especially when you 
> consider what our imperialistic ancestors did to destroy many of 
> their cultures. 
> 
> The only thing that bugs me is that you'd think I might've gotten 
> a little more rhythm out of the deal than I did, but no such 
> luck. Anyway, it's not how well you dance in life--just that you 
> dance, right?!
> 
> Holly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Steven <NoSpam03 at comcast.net>
> To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 11:29:39 AM
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] A few excellent thoughts on what it means 
> to be an "American" . . .
> 
> Sure rings true about white guys.
> I don't think that white guys wrote the book on American Culture. It was
> just that there were more of us and we were the ones required to 
> go out and
> get the jobs in that culture.
> White guys were mostly in charge in European Culture, or British Culture.
> 
> The equal opportunity stuff sure ruined my advancement in the 70s 
> and 80s. I
> suffered yet my ancestors fought for the north in the Civil War. Why was I
> punished?
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com]On
> Behalf Of Bob Browning
>   Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 10:26 AM
>   To: Grovenet
>   Subject: [Grovenet] A few excellent thoughts on what it means to be an
> "American" . .
> 
>   A: Yes -- although the problem is that white people, men in particular,
> are not allowed that same opportunity. Until we can figure out if 
> ?American
> culture? means ?white culture? or something new, this problem will remain.
> 
>   -Michael Giarrusso, AP regional news director
> 
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> 
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> 

From feralcattamer at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 14 15:09:51 2009
From: feralcattamer at yahoo.com (Holly T.)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 15:09:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] A few excellent thoughts on what it means to be
	an"American" . . .
In-Reply-To: <FBEAKAJNIJPKEDCBPHFNKEJBMHAA.NoSpam03@comcast.net>
References: <FBEAKAJNIJPKEDCBPHFNKEJBMHAA.NoSpam03@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <356504.56123.qm@web56103.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Yes, Steven, as a woman, I have, no doubt, "garnered" many benefits that you likely haven't enjoyed as a white male. But, I have also endured sexual harassment more times than I care to count. Not to mention the fact that I once was given a totally sexist performance review by a chauvinist pig of a boss who praised at length the fact that I did some technical magazine photography modeling for the company on my own time, while he mentioned nothing about the fact that, over the course of just three months, I single handedly authored a 200-page technical user's guide that received numerous accolades from all over the company not to mention from customers. And, let's not forget the stalkers, the crank callers, and the email creeps whose nonsense I endured during my 30-year career. And, just because most men today have been educated about the evils of sexual harassment doesn't mean that it isn't still happening. Sexual harassment is still alive and thriving
 in today's workplace. Just ask any pretty woman.

Just like you might've noticed more than a few inequities on your side, it's not all rosy from this vantage point either.

One more thing:  Let's make it perfectly clear that I don't consider it a "punishment" when an Afro-American woman or an Asian man lands a job that I've applied for or gets a promotion instead of me. You may be a rare exception, but most of us Caucasians can't be so crystal-clear certain as you seem to be about their how lily-white pure their ancestors were when it came to discrimination against minorities. If you've ever read Derrick Jensen's The Culture of Make Believe, you'd know that lynchings were still prevalent in the Deep South as recently as the late 60s, and they still do occur occasionally even today. You'd know that our wonderful country (the home of the free and the brave???) imprisons a higher percentage of our population than any nation on Earth, and the vast majority of those jailed are people of color. I don't believe that any of us are totally innocent when it comes to racial discrimination. I believe that most of us owe compensation to
 those cultures that our ancestors have raped, enslaved, and annihilated.  Even if we did not participate directly in those despicable acts. Even if our fathers and grandfather's "fought for freedom". 

Honoring minorities and stepping aside to help them better their lives is not a punishment for me. It's compensation for what my ancestors did to the cultures that they squelched in the past. It's the very least I can do under the circumstances.

Holly




________________________________
From: Steven <NoSpam03 at comcast.net>
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 12:47:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] A few excellent thoughts on what it means to be an"American" . . .

Fine, you should be punished. I can see that. My family always fought for
freedoms. Yet just because my dad married a white woman, I am less a
citizen. 
You are a woman and garner much of the benefits removed from me.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com]On
> Behalf Of Holly T.
> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 11:55 AM
> To: Forest Grove local interests list
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] A few excellent thoughts on what it means to be
> an"American" . . .
> 
> 
> Sure, Steven, like you, equal opportunity has made it harder for 
> me to compete for jobs against those who are members of racial 
> minorities during my career that spans over 30 years. Equal 
> opportunity also prevented my daughter, who had a 3.7 
> accumulative GPA in her first four years of college, from getting 
> accepted into the free-ride Doctorate program that she wanted 
> because students who were inept at the nuances of the English 
> language were chosen over her because they were from foreign 
> countries that were on the quota list. 
> 
> But, when my grandmother was born in Tennessee, she was actually 
> suckled by a Negro mammy wet nurse because my great-grandmother 
> didn't have enough milk to feed her. Had that very special 
> Afro-American woman not been willing to feed my grandmother, I 
> very likely wouldn't be here today. My grandmother grew up on her 
> father's plantation that was far away from the closest neighbor. 
> The share croppers who worked my great-grandfather's plantation 
> were the children and grandchildren of slaves who remained 
> because they couldn't get jobs to feed their children following 
> emancipation. 
> 
> So, I've always done my best to be extremely nice to 
> Afro-Americans for that reason, and I tend to look the other way 
> and figure that minorities deserve whatever they get when I see 
> them being given preferential treatment. Especially when you 
> consider what our imperialistic ancestors did to destroy many of 
> their cultures. 
> 
> The only thing that bugs me is that you'd think I might've gotten 
> a little more rhythm out of the deal than I did, but no such 
> luck. Anyway, it's not how well you dance in life--just that you 
> dance, right?!
> 
> Holly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Steven <NoSpam03 at comcast.net>
> To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 11:29:39 AM
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] A few excellent thoughts on what it means 
> to be an "American" . . .
> 
> Sure rings true about white guys.
> I don't think that white guys wrote the book on American Culture. It was
> just that there were more of us and we were the ones required to 
> go out and
> get the jobs in that culture.
> White guys were mostly in charge in European Culture, or British Culture.
> 
> The equal opportunity stuff sure ruined my advancement in the 70s 
> and 80s. I
> suffered yet my ancestors fought for the north in the Civil War. Why was I
> punished?
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com]On
> Behalf Of Bob Browning
>   Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 10:26 AM
>   To: Grovenet
>   Subject: [Grovenet] A few excellent thoughts on what it means to be an
> "American" . .
> 
>   A: Yes -- although the problem is that white people, men in particular,
> are not allowed that same opportunity. Until we can figure out if 
> ?American
> culture? means ?white culture? or something new, this problem will remain.
> 
>   -Michael Giarrusso, AP regional news director
> 
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> 
> 
> 
>      
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> 



      

From jo.david at verizon.net  Tue Jul 14 22:21:43 2009
From: jo.david at verizon.net (David Morelli)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 22:21:43 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] A few excellent thoughts on what it means to be
 an"American" . . .
In-Reply-To: <FBEAKAJNIJPKEDCBPHFNKEJBMHAA.NoSpam03@comcast.net>
References: <FBEAKAJNIJPKEDCBPHFNKEJBMHAA.NoSpam03@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CE3E874B-E533-4992-A228-F8538561255B@verizon.net>


On Jul 14, 2009, at 12:47 PM, Steven wrote:

> ... Yet just because my dad married a white woman, I am less a  
> citizen.
> You are a woman and garner much of the benefits removed from me.

Aw shucks!  I thought it was because you say things to irritate people.

David

From NoSpam03 at comcast.net  Wed Jul 15 09:04:21 2009
From: NoSpam03 at comcast.net (Steven)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 09:04:21 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] A few excellent thoughts on what it means to be
	an"American" . . .
In-Reply-To: <CE3E874B-E533-4992-A228-F8538561255B@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <FBEAKAJNIJPKEDCBPHFNCEJDMHAA.NoSpam03@comcast.net>

That too.
Should I be less of a citizen based on what I say? Or maybe they should
change the laws so that making bug art makes you unable to get health care.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com]On
> Behalf Of David Morelli
> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 10:22 PM
> To: Forest Grove local interests list
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] A few excellent thoughts on what it means to be
> an"American" . . .
>
>
>
> On Jul 14, 2009, at 12:47 PM, Steven wrote:
>
> > ... Yet just because my dad married a white woman, I am less a
> > citizen.
> > You are a woman and garner much of the benefits removed from me.
>
> Aw shucks!  I thought it was because you say things to irritate people.
>
> David
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>


From waltw at teleport.com  Wed Jul 15 09:30:31 2009
From: waltw at teleport.com (Walt Wentz)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 09:30:31 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] A few excellent thoughts on what it means to be
	an"American" . . .
In-Reply-To: <FBEAKAJNIJPKEDCBPHFNCEJDMHAA.NoSpam03@comcast.net>
References: <FBEAKAJNIJPKEDCBPHFNCEJDMHAA.NoSpam03@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <F4DF0105-BCFF-4943-99C3-6201043FAB6D@teleport.com>

Bug art? Please define. Is it a cartoon, jewelry or some kind of  
collage using insect parts?

On Jul 15, 2009, at 9:04 AM, Steven wrote:

> That too.
> Should I be less of a citizen based on what I say? Or maybe they  
> should
> change the laws so that making bug art makes you unable to get  
> health care.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet- 
>> bounces at rdrop.com]On
>> Behalf Of David Morelli
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 10:22 PM
>> To: Forest Grove local interests list
>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] A few excellent thoughts on what it means  
>> to be
>> an"American" . . .
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jul 14, 2009, at 12:47 PM, Steven wrote:
>>
>>> ... Yet just because my dad married a white woman, I am less a
>>> citizen.
>>> You are a woman and garner much of the benefits removed from me.
>>
>> Aw shucks!  I thought it was because you say things to irritate  
>> people.
>>
>> David
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From feralcattamer at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 15 10:00:04 2009
From: feralcattamer at yahoo.com (Holly T.)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 10:00:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] A few excellent thoughts on what it means to be
	an"American" . . .
In-Reply-To: <FBEAKAJNIJPKEDCBPHFNCEJDMHAA.NoSpam03@comcast.net>
References: <FBEAKAJNIJPKEDCBPHFNCEJDMHAA.NoSpam03@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <512849.71194.qm@web56103.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Cool!  Would you please attach some photos of said bug art?  I'd love to see.

Holly




________________________________
From: Steven <NoSpam03 at comcast.net>
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:04:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] A few excellent thoughts on what it means to be an"American" . . .

That too.
Should I be less of a citizen based on what I say? Or maybe they should
change the laws so that making bug art makes you unable to get health care.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com]On
> Behalf Of David Morelli
> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 10:22 PM
> To: Forest Grove local interests list
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] A few excellent thoughts on what it means to be
> an"American" . . .
>
>
>
> On Jul 14, 2009, at 12:47 PM, Steven wrote:
>
> > ... Yet just because my dad married a white woman, I am less a
> > citizen.
> > You are a woman and garner much of the benefits removed from me.
>
> Aw shucks!  I thought it was because you say things to irritate people.
>
> David
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>

_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



      

From allnutt at verizon.net  Wed Jul 15 10:18:50 2009
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 10:18:50 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Smoking is getting expensive
Message-ID: <8BE6B4C9-99A7-408F-9902-7AD4881FC9E2@verizon.net>

	

Boy smoking is getting to be very expensive these days:

tiny url
http://tinyurl.com/lc2wkz


Katie


From phoenixacup at gmail.com  Wed Jul 15 12:10:39 2009
From: phoenixacup at gmail.com (Jane Burch-Pesses)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 12:10:39 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Smoking is getting expensive
In-Reply-To: <8BE6B4C9-99A7-408F-9902-7AD4881FC9E2@verizon.net>
References: <8BE6B4C9-99A7-408F-9902-7AD4881FC9E2@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <d6eeab3d0907151210o4597cec6j6b400aa28e898ffc@mail.gmail.com>

Too funny!  Of course, smoking has always been expensive if you count in the
health care costs, but never so immediately!
Jane

On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 10:18 AM, Katie Allnutt <allnutt at verizon.net> wrote:

>
>
> Boy smoking is getting to be very expensive these days:
>
> tiny url
> http://tinyurl.com/lc2wkz
>
>
> Katie
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>



-- 
Phoenix Acupuncture and Chinese Medicine
Home of the TAO (Team Against Obesity)
www.phoenix-acupuncture.net

From rab at jurislex.com  Wed Jul 15 12:20:23 2009
From: rab at jurislex.com (Bob Browning)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 12:20:23 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .
Message-ID: <4A5E2BF7.2040502@jurislex.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: /pipermail/attachments/20090715/d787620e/attachment.html 

From osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 15 12:37:13 2009
From: osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com (Allen Warren)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 12:37:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .
In-Reply-To: <4A5E2BF7.2040502@jurislex.com>
References: <4A5E2BF7.2040502@jurislex.com>
Message-ID: <276731.26069.qm@web35202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

It really is sad?how our?Congressional so-called?"leaders" put Supreme Court nominees through the?wringer.? It's bad enough that nominees?like Sotomayor have to?first run a gauntlet just to?reach the point where they can be considered as a nominee, but?then?each nominee has to sit through pompous, scathing badgering?which is mostly show with little substance.??And?it's not just Sotomayor I'm talking about.? It's all of her predecessors in at least the last?30 years.

Kudos to?Sotomayor for?not jumping up to run over and strangle some of the Repulicans.? And kudos to her predecessors for not doing the same with the opposition party in past nomination hearings.

I firmly believe in and support our government.? But?these nomination hearings are simply a?mechanism for the opposition party to drag on the pre-destined approval process to both badger the nominee and also?hope they can somehow, magically find a "smoking gun" that simply isn't?there.
?
Allen Warren


________________________________
From: Bob Browning <rab at jurislex.com>
To: Grovenet <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 12:20:23 PM
Subject: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .


I just heard Sen Coburn using a Dezi Arnas phrase from the Lucy Show. Yet another reference to Sotomayor's latin heritage. These Republicans never stop. If you're wondering what they're doing they're playing to the base. Recall what Limbaugh (the figure head of the conservative movement) remarked early in this process: "Sotomayor is a racist" (paraphrased). That's what they're probing for. They are looking to affirm their "reverse-discrimination" mantra. These guys are intent on making this nomination about race apprently because the latina woman has had her foot on the throat of conservative white male elites for such a long time. It really is an insight into the sociopathology and dogmatic intellect of the conservative mind.


      

From stevedj at teleport.com  Wed Jul 15 14:46:30 2009
From: stevedj at teleport.com (Steve Jerrett)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 14:46:30 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .
References: <4A5E2BF7.2040502@jurislex.com>
	<276731.26069.qm@web35202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1C080F154C754069A28A8BE6F5865377@Maincomputer>

"I would hope that a wise Latina woman with the richness of her experiences 
would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white male who 
hasn't lived that life,"  was stated by Sandra Sotomayor, 2001.

That my be true, but why the racism? It seems that anyone, regardless of 
race, with a rich life experience would bring more to the table than someone 
that has led a sheltered life.

We all probably know that if the reverse were uttered by a white man, 
widespread outrage would ensue. Imagine the outrage if a  southern senator 
stated "give me a good ol' white man that's been through the school of hard 
knocks over an ignorant Mexican any day."

Why aren't "progressives" joining in to denounce Sotomayor's blatantly 
racist statement? Instead,  such questioning is dismissed  as fractious 
rhetoric.

If we as a society are to truly transcend this hypocritical cycle, we all 
must be honest and willing to denounce racism from all sources.


Steve



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Allen Warren" <osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com>
To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .


It really is sad how our Congressional so-called "leaders" put Supreme Court 
nominees through the wringer. It's bad enough that nominees like Sotomayor 
have to first run a gauntlet just to reach the point where they can be 
considered as a nominee, but then each nominee has to sit through pompous, 
scathing badgering which is mostly show with little substance. And it's not 
just Sotomayor I'm talking about. It's all of her predecessors in at least 
the last 30 years.

Kudos to Sotomayor for not jumping up to run over and strangle some of the 
Repulicans. And kudos to her predecessors for not doing the same with the 
opposition party in past nomination hearings.

I firmly believe in and support our government. But these nomination 
hearings are simply a mechanism for the opposition party to drag on the 
pre-destined approval process to both badger the nominee and also hope they 
can somehow, magically find a "smoking gun" that simply isn't there.

Allen Warren


________________________________
From: Bob Browning <rab at jurislex.com>
To: Grovenet <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 12:20:23 PM
Subject: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .


I just heard Sen Coburn using a Dezi Arnas phrase from the Lucy Show. Yet 
another reference to Sotomayor's latin heritage. These Republicans never 
stop. If you're wondering what they're doing they're playing to the base. 
Recall what Limbaugh (the figure head of the conservative movement) remarked 
early in this process: "Sotomayor is a racist" (paraphrased). That's what 
they're probing for. They are looking to affirm their 
"reverse-discrimination" mantra. These guys are intent on making this 
nomination about race apprently because the latina woman has had her foot on 
the throat of conservative white male elites for such a long time. It really 
is an insight into the sociopathology and dogmatic intellect of the 
conservative mind.



_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From edavie at verizon.net  Wed Jul 15 15:20:36 2009
From: edavie at verizon.net (Ed Davie)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 15:20:36 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .
References: <4A5E2BF7.2040502@jurislex.com>
	<276731.26069.qm@web35202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<1C080F154C754069A28A8BE6F5865377@Maincomputer>
Message-ID: <696D03BD04184F7FA49C20725442A07F@EDavie>

If viewed in context, as it should be, it is NOT a 
racist statement.
Ed
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Steve Jerrett
  To: Forest Grove local interests list
  Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 2:46 PM
  Subject: Re: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .


  "I would hope that a wise Latina woman with the 
richness of her experiences
  would more often than not reach a better 
conclusion than a white male who
  hasn't lived that life,"  was stated by Sandra 
Sotomayor, 2001.

  That my be true, but why the racism? It seems 
that anyone, regardless of
  race, with a rich life experience would bring 
more to the table than someone
  that has led a sheltered life.

  We all probably know that if the reverse were 
uttered by a white man,
  widespread outrage would ensue. Imagine the 
outrage if a  southern senator
  stated "give me a good ol' white man that's been 
through the school of hard
  knocks over an ignorant Mexican any day."

  Why aren't "progressives" joining in to denounce 
Sotomayor's blatantly
  racist statement? Instead,  such questioning is 
dismissed  as fractious
  rhetoric.

  If we as a society are to truly transcend this 
hypocritical cycle, we all
  must be honest and willing to denounce racism 
from all sources.


  Steve



  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "Allen Warren" <osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com>
  To: "Forest Grove local interests list" 
<grovenet at rdrop.com>
  Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 12:37 PM
  Subject: Re: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .


  It really is sad how our Congressional so-called 
"leaders" put Supreme Court
  nominees through the wringer. It's bad enough 
that nominees like Sotomayor
  have to first run a gauntlet just to reach the 
point where they can be
  considered as a nominee, but then each nominee 
has to sit through pompous,
  scathing badgering which is mostly show with 
little substance. And it's not
  just Sotomayor I'm talking about. It's all of 
her predecessors in at least
  the last 30 years.

  Kudos to Sotomayor for not jumping up to run 
over and strangle some of the
  Repulicans. And kudos to her predecessors for 
not doing the same with the
  opposition party in past nomination hearings.

  I firmly believe in and support our government. 
But these nomination
  hearings are simply a mechanism for the 
opposition party to drag on the
  pre-destined approval process to both badger the 
nominee and also hope they
  can somehow, magically find a "smoking gun" that 
simply isn't there.

  Allen Warren


  ________________________________
  From: Bob Browning <rab at jurislex.com>
  To: Grovenet <grovenet at rdrop.com>
  Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 12:20:23 PM
  Subject: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .


  I just heard Sen Coburn using a Dezi Arnas 
phrase from the Lucy Show. Yet
  another reference to Sotomayor's latin heritage. 
These Republicans never
  stop. If you're wondering what they're doing 
they're playing to the base.
  Recall what Limbaugh (the figure head of the 
conservative movement) remarked
  early in this process: "Sotomayor is a racist" 
(paraphrased). That's what
  they're probing for. They are looking to affirm 
their
  "reverse-discrimination" mantra. These guys are 
intent on making this
  nomination about race apprently because the 
latina woman has had her foot on
  the throat of conservative white male elites for 
such a long time. It really
  is an insight into the sociopathology and 
dogmatic intellect of the
  conservative mind.



  _______________________________________________
  GroveNet mailing list
  GroveNet at rdrop.com
  http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

  _______________________________________________
  GroveNet mailing list
  GroveNet at rdrop.com
  http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

From waltw at teleport.com  Wed Jul 15 16:24:34 2009
From: waltw at teleport.com (Walt Wentz)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 16:24:34 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .
In-Reply-To: <1C080F154C754069A28A8BE6F5865377@Maincomputer>
References: <4A5E2BF7.2040502@jurislex.com>
	<276731.26069.qm@web35202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<1C080F154C754069A28A8BE6F5865377@Maincomputer>
Message-ID: <27948B57-BD57-42A6-850E-D9AD6CDF45F4@teleport.com>

Kindly read the entire sentence...
"I would hope..."
That means this is an optimistic speculation on her part.  She said,  
"I would hope," not "I say" or "I believe" or even "The Bible proves."
"...a white male  who HASN'T LIVED THAT LIFE."
Get it? Hasn't. Lived. That. Life.
What is implicit in her sentence is that a white male-- or anybody--   
who HAD lived "that life" might also reach "good conclusions."

My own reaction, listening to the endless blathering of the Repub  
politicos and spinmeisters, is that rich, old, white, right-wing  
Southern men not only have never lived "that life," they wouldn't  
recognize racism if it bit them on the keister-- because it never has!
They have always been on the delivering end, not the receiving one.
Walt

On Jul 15, 2009, at 2:46 PM, Steve Jerrett wrote:

> "I would hope that a wise Latina woman with the richness of her  
> experiences
> would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white  
> male who
> hasn't lived that life,"  was stated by Sandra Sotomayor, 2001.
>
> That my be true, but why the racism? It seems that anyone,  
> regardless of
> race, with a rich life experience would bring more to the table  
> than someone
> that has led a sheltered life.
>
> We all probably know that if the reverse were uttered by a white man,
> widespread outrage would ensue. Imagine the outrage if a  southern  
> senator
> stated "give me a good ol' white man that's been through the school  
> of hard
> knocks over an ignorant Mexican any day."
>
> Why aren't "progressives" joining in to denounce Sotomayor's blatantly
> racist statement? Instead,  such questioning is dismissed  as  
> fractious
> rhetoric.
>
> If we as a society are to truly transcend this hypocritical cycle,  
> we all
> must be honest and willing to denounce racism from all sources.
>
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Allen Warren" <osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com>
> To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 12:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .
>
>
> It really is sad how our Congressional so-called "leaders" put  
> Supreme Court
> nominees through the wringer. It's bad enough that nominees like  
> Sotomayor
> have to first run a gauntlet just to reach the point where they can be
> considered as a nominee, but then each nominee has to sit through  
> pompous,
> scathing badgering which is mostly show with little substance. And  
> it's not
> just Sotomayor I'm talking about. It's all of her predecessors in  
> at least
> the last 30 years.
>
> Kudos to Sotomayor for not jumping up to run over and strangle some  
> of the
> Repulicans. And kudos to her predecessors for not doing the same  
> with the
> opposition party in past nomination hearings.
>
> I firmly believe in and support our government. But these nomination
> hearings are simply a mechanism for the opposition party to drag on  
> the
> pre-destined approval process to both badger the nominee and also  
> hope they
> can somehow, magically find a "smoking gun" that simply isn't there.
>
> Allen Warren
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Bob Browning <rab at jurislex.com>
> To: Grovenet <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 12:20:23 PM
> Subject: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .
>
>
> I just heard Sen Coburn using a Dezi Arnas phrase from the Lucy  
> Show. Yet
> another reference to Sotomayor's latin heritage. These Republicans  
> never
> stop. If you're wondering what they're doing they're playing to the  
> base.
> Recall what Limbaugh (the figure head of the conservative movement)  
> remarked
> early in this process: "Sotomayor is a racist" (paraphrased).  
> That's what
> they're probing for. They are looking to affirm their
> "reverse-discrimination" mantra. These guys are intent on making this
> nomination about race apprently because the latina woman has had  
> her foot on
> the throat of conservative white male elites for such a long time.  
> It really
> is an insight into the sociopathology and dogmatic intellect of the
> conservative mind.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 15 16:29:25 2009
From: osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com (Allen Warren)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 16:29:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .
In-Reply-To: <1C080F154C754069A28A8BE6F5865377@Maincomputer>
References: <4A5E2BF7.2040502@jurislex.com>
	<276731.26069.qm@web35202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<1C080F154C754069A28A8BE6F5865377@Maincomputer>
Message-ID: <976366.26051.qm@web35204.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I ask you to please read the full context of Judge Sotomayor's speech: http://www.docstoc.com/docs/6444523/Sonia-Sotomayors-2001-speech-at-UC-Berkeley

As I read through the speech I realized she was advocating for diversity, not making racist remarks, or at least not attempting to sound like a racist.? And in her speech she?was advocating how indeed a person with rich life experience would bring more to the table than someone that has led a sheltered life.

The one sentence in the entire speech that?Republicans are holding up as a racist comment is, IMHO, not racist when?the entire speech is read.??That one statement sentence certainly is not the best choice of words.? No doubt about it.? But if we take one sentence?out of an entire speech, hold up that one sentence as clear evidence of?the entire tenor of an individual, don't take into account the entire body of work a person does, then I submit absolutely *NO* person will ever be fit to?be a judge on any court.
?
Allen Warren


________________________________
From: Steve Jerrett <stevedj at teleport.com>
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 2:46:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .

"I would hope that a wise Latina woman with the richness of her experiences 
would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white male who 
hasn't lived that life,"? was stated by Sandra Sotomayor, 2001.

That my be true, but why the racism? It seems that anyone, regardless of 
race, with a rich life experience would bring more to the table than someone 
that has led a sheltered life.

We all probably know that if the reverse were uttered by a white man, 
widespread outrage would ensue. Imagine the outrage if a? southern senator 
stated "give me a good ol' white man that's been through the school of hard 
knocks over an ignorant Mexican any day."

Why aren't "progressives" joining in to denounce Sotomayor's blatantly 
racist statement? Instead,? such questioning is dismissed? as fractious 
rhetoric.

If we as a society are to truly transcend this hypocritical cycle, we all 
must be honest and willing to denounce racism from all sources.


Steve



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Allen Warren" <osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com>
To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .


It really is sad how our Congressional so-called "leaders" put Supreme Court 
nominees through the wringer. It's bad enough that nominees like Sotomayor 
have to first run a gauntlet just to reach the point where they can be 
considered as a nominee, but then each nominee has to sit through pompous, 
scathing badgering which is mostly show with little substance. And it's not 
just Sotomayor I'm talking about. It's all of her predecessors in at least 
the last 30 years.

Kudos to Sotomayor for not jumping up to run over and strangle some of the 
Repulicans. And kudos to her predecessors for not doing the same with the 
opposition party in past nomination hearings.

I firmly believe in and support our government. But these nomination 
hearings are simply a mechanism for the opposition party to drag on the 
pre-destined approval process to both badger the nominee and also hope they 
can somehow, magically find a "smoking gun" that simply isn't there.

Allen Warren


________________________________
From: Bob Browning <rab at jurislex.com>
To: Grovenet <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 12:20:23 PM
Subject: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .


I just heard Sen Coburn using a Dezi Arnas phrase from the Lucy Show. Yet 
another reference to Sotomayor's latin heritage. These Republicans never 
stop. If you're wondering what they're doing they're playing to the base. 
Recall what Limbaugh (the figure head of the conservative movement) remarked 
early in this process: "Sotomayor is a racist" (paraphrased). That's what 
they're probing for. They are looking to affirm their 
"reverse-discrimination" mantra. These guys are intent on making this 
nomination about race apprently because the latina woman has had her foot on 
the throat of conservative white male elites for such a long time. It really 
is an insight into the sociopathology and dogmatic intellect of the 
conservative mind.



_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



      

From stevedj at teleport.com  Wed Jul 15 16:54:43 2009
From: stevedj at teleport.com (Steve Jerrett)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 16:54:43 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .
References: <4A5E2BF7.2040502@jurislex.com><276731.26069.qm@web35202.mail.mud.yahoo.com><1C080F154C754069A28A8BE6F5865377@Maincomputer>
	<27948B57-BD57-42A6-850E-D9AD6CDF45F4@teleport.com>
Message-ID: <5F6C2E5F440D407D83DEE1848008B13F@Maincomputer>

Walt stated,

"What is implicit in her sentence is that a white male-- or anybody--
who HAD lived "that life" might also reach "good conclusions."

I can't agree with your assessment as to her implications. If she had stated 
"I would hope that a wise person with a richness of
 experiences   would more often than not reach a better conclusion than one 
that    hasn't lived that life," I would be more inclined to agree with you. 
But, she chose to interject race and gender. That makes her statement 
multi-faceted, and much more difficult to ascertain her intent.


My whole point, regardless of her intent, is that the same statement would 
cause a firestorm of backlash if uttered by a conservative. Many seem to 
assume that racism is inherent only to "rich, old, white, right-wing 
Southern men," but would never entertain the thought that a "progressive" 
Latina would harbor any racist tendencies. I believe the scrutiny in her 
case is appropriate. This is the Supreme Court, after all.

As for having to live "that life" to be able to recognize racism is absurd. 
Enough said.

Steve




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Walt Wentz" <waltw at teleport.com>
To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .


> Kindly read the entire sentence...
> "I would hope..."
> That means this is an optimistic speculation on her part.  She said,
> "I would hope," not "I say" or "I believe" or even "The Bible proves."
> "...a white male  who HASN'T LIVED THAT LIFE."
> Get it? Hasn't. Lived. That. Life.
> What is implicit in her sentence is that a white male-- or anybody--
> who HAD lived "that life" might also reach "good conclusions."
>
> My own reaction, listening to the endless blathering of the Repub
> politicos and spinmeisters, is that rich, old, white, right-wing
> Southern men not only have never lived "that life," they wouldn't
> recognize racism if it bit them on the keister-- because it never has!
> They have always been on the delivering end, not the receiving one.
> Walt
>
> On Jul 15, 2009, at 2:46 PM, Steve Jerrett wrote:
>
>> "I would hope that a wise Latina woman with the richness of her
>> experiences
>> would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white
>> male who
>> hasn't lived that life,"  was stated by Sandra Sotomayor, 2001.
>>
>> That my be true, but why the racism? It seems that anyone,
>> regardless of
>> race, with a rich life experience would bring more to the table
>> than someone
>> that has led a sheltered life.
>>
>> We all probably know that if the reverse were uttered by a white man,
>> widespread outrage would ensue. Imagine the outrage if a  southern
>> senator
>> stated "give me a good ol' white man that's been through the school
>> of hard
>> knocks over an ignorant Mexican any day."
>>
>> Why aren't "progressives" joining in to denounce Sotomayor's blatantly
>> racist statement? Instead,  such questioning is dismissed  as
>> fractious
>> rhetoric.
>>
>> If we as a society are to truly transcend this hypocritical cycle,
>> we all
>> must be honest and willing to denounce racism from all sources.
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Allen Warren" <osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com>
>> To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 12:37 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .
>>
>>
>> It really is sad how our Congressional so-called "leaders" put
>> Supreme Court
>> nominees through the wringer. It's bad enough that nominees like
>> Sotomayor
>> have to first run a gauntlet just to reach the point where they can be
>> considered as a nominee, but then each nominee has to sit through
>> pompous,
>> scathing badgering which is mostly show with little substance. And
>> it's not
>> just Sotomayor I'm talking about. It's all of her predecessors in
>> at least
>> the last 30 years.
>>
>> Kudos to Sotomayor for not jumping up to run over and strangle some
>> of the
>> Repulicans. And kudos to her predecessors for not doing the same
>> with the
>> opposition party in past nomination hearings.
>>
>> I firmly believe in and support our government. But these nomination
>> hearings are simply a mechanism for the opposition party to drag on
>> the
>> pre-destined approval process to both badger the nominee and also
>> hope they
>> can somehow, magically find a "smoking gun" that simply isn't there.
>>
>> Allen Warren
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Bob Browning <rab at jurislex.com>
>> To: Grovenet <grovenet at rdrop.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 12:20:23 PM
>> Subject: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .
>>
>>
>> I just heard Sen Coburn using a Dezi Arnas phrase from the Lucy
>> Show. Yet
>> another reference to Sotomayor's latin heritage. These Republicans
>> never
>> stop. If you're wondering what they're doing they're playing to the
>> base.
>> Recall what Limbaugh (the figure head of the conservative movement)
>> remarked
>> early in this process: "Sotomayor is a racist" (paraphrased).
>> That's what
>> they're probing for. They are looking to affirm their
>> "reverse-discrimination" mantra. These guys are intent on making this
>> nomination about race apprently because the latina woman has had
>> her foot on
>> the throat of conservative white male elites for such a long time.
>> It really
>> is an insight into the sociopathology and dogmatic intellect of the
>> conservative mind.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> 


From stevedj at teleport.com  Wed Jul 15 17:35:11 2009
From: stevedj at teleport.com (Steve Jerrett)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 17:35:11 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .
References: <4A5E2BF7.2040502@jurislex.com><276731.26069.qm@web35202.mail.mud.yahoo.com><1C080F154C754069A28A8BE6F5865377@Maincomputer>
	<976366.26051.qm@web35204.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6EEFC1C587E546D08C45EA2810F35A70@Maincomputer>

Allen,

I did read the entire speech, and I tend to believe, as you do, that it 
isn't an intentionally racist statement.   It did raise a red flag when I 
read it, and I think the scrutiny is justifiable. Some, on both sides of the 
issue, seem content to make assumptions as to her intent. I don't see 
anything wrong with insisting that she explain the statement, since this is 
a fairly important office.

I still believe there is a double standard that excuses some and vilifies 
others for similar statements, and this is the crux of my original post.

Steve

 ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Allen Warren" <osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com>
To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .


I ask you to please read the full context of Judge Sotomayor's speech: 
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/6444523/Sonia-Sotomayors-2001-speech-at-UC-Berkeley

As I read through the speech I realized she was advocating for diversity, 
not making racist remarks, or at least not attempting to sound like a 
racist. And in her speech she was advocating how indeed a person with rich 
life experience would bring more to the table than someone that has led a 
sheltered life.

The one sentence in the entire speech that Republicans are holding up as a 
racist comment is, IMHO, not racist when the entire speech is read. That one 
statement sentence certainly is not the best choice of words. No doubt about 
it. But if we take one sentence out of an entire speech, hold up that one 
sentence as clear evidence of the entire tenor of an individual, don't take 
into account the entire body of work a person does, then I submit absolutely 
*NO* person will ever be fit to be a judge on any court.

Allen Warren


________________________________
From: Steve Jerrett <stevedj at teleport.com>
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 2:46:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .

"I would hope that a wise Latina woman with the richness of her experiences
would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white male who
hasn't lived that life," was stated by Sandra Sotomayor, 2001.

That my be true, but why the racism? It seems that anyone, regardless of
race, with a rich life experience would bring more to the table than someone
that has led a sheltered life.

We all probably know that if the reverse were uttered by a white man,
widespread outrage would ensue. Imagine the outrage if a southern senator
stated "give me a good ol' white man that's been through the school of hard
knocks over an ignorant Mexican any day."

Why aren't "progressives" joining in to denounce Sotomayor's blatantly
racist statement? Instead, such questioning is dismissed as fractious
rhetoric.

If we as a society are to truly transcend this hypocritical cycle, we all
must be honest and willing to denounce racism from all sources.


Steve



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Allen Warren" <osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com>
To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .


It really is sad how our Congressional so-called "leaders" put Supreme Court
nominees through the wringer. It's bad enough that nominees like Sotomayor
have to first run a gauntlet just to reach the point where they can be
considered as a nominee, but then each nominee has to sit through pompous,
scathing badgering which is mostly show with little substance. And it's not
just Sotomayor I'm talking about. It's all of her predecessors in at least
the last 30 years.

Kudos to Sotomayor for not jumping up to run over and strangle some of the
Repulicans. And kudos to her predecessors for not doing the same with the
opposition party in past nomination hearings.

I firmly believe in and support our government. But these nomination
hearings are simply a mechanism for the opposition party to drag on the
pre-destined approval process to both badger the nominee and also hope they
can somehow, magically find a "smoking gun" that simply isn't there.

Allen Warren


________________________________
From: Bob Browning <rab at jurislex.com>
To: Grovenet <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 12:20:23 PM
Subject: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .


I just heard Sen Coburn using a Dezi Arnas phrase from the Lucy Show. Yet
another reference to Sotomayor's latin heritage. These Republicans never
stop. If you're wondering what they're doing they're playing to the base.
Recall what Limbaugh (the figure head of the conservative movement) remarked
early in this process: "Sotomayor is a racist" (paraphrased). That's what
they're probing for. They are looking to affirm their
"reverse-discrimination" mantra. These guys are intent on making this
nomination about race apprently because the latina woman has had her foot on
the throat of conservative white male elites for such a long time. It really
is an insight into the sociopathology and dogmatic intellect of the
conservative mind.



_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet




_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From allnutt at verizon.net  Wed Jul 15 17:46:11 2009
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 17:46:11 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .
In-Reply-To: <1C080F154C754069A28A8BE6F5865377@Maincomputer>
References: <4A5E2BF7.2040502@jurislex.com>
	<276731.26069.qm@web35202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<1C080F154C754069A28A8BE6F5865377@Maincomputer>
Message-ID: <DAFE1DEA-6121-4D38-999F-2BA853DE93FF@verizon.net>

If a southern senator said "Give me a a good ol' white man that's  
been through the school of hard knocks over an ignorant _________ any  
day", I think that everyone would agree with him regardless of how  
you fill in the blank. At least I would.  Ignorant people come in all  
colors and I'd rather have a wise one than a dumb one.

If we as a society are to truly transcend this hypocritical cycle, we  
all must be honest and willing to recognize that wise people come in  
all colors too.  But since a lot of people don't seem to recognize  
that wise people do come in all colors we get stuck trying to put  
meanings to words taken out of context.

Progressives aren't denouncing Sotomayor's statement because it  
wasn't racist in the context of the full speech and it wasn't racist  
given your own example of the ol' white guy vs the ignorant guy.

Katie




On Jul 15, 2009, at 2:46 PM, Steve Jerrett wrote:

> "I would hope that a wise Latina woman with the richness of her  
> experiences
> would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white  
> male who
> hasn't lived that life,"  was stated by Sandra Sotomayor, 2001.
>
> That my be true, but why the racism? It seems that anyone,  
> regardless of
> race, with a rich life experience would bring more to the table  
> than someone
> that has led a sheltered life.
>
> We all probably know that if the reverse were uttered by a white man,
> widespread outrage would ensue. Imagine the outrage if a  southern  
> senator
> stated "give me a good ol' white man that's been through the school  
> of hard
> knocks over an ignorant Mexican any day."
>
> Why aren't "progressives" joining in to denounce Sotomayor's blatantly
> racist statement? Instead,  such questioning is dismissed  as  
> fractious
> rhetoric.
>
> If we as a society are to truly transcend this hypocritical cycle,  
> we all
> must be honest and willing to denounce racism from all sources.
>
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Allen Warren" <osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com>
> To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 12:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .
>
>
> It really is sad how our Congressional so-called "leaders" put  
> Supreme Court
> nominees through the wringer. It's bad enough that nominees like  
> Sotomayor
> have to first run a gauntlet just to reach the point where they can be
> considered as a nominee, but then each nominee has to sit through  
> pompous,
> scathing badgering which is mostly show with little substance. And  
> it's not
> just Sotomayor I'm talking about. It's all of her predecessors in  
> at least
> the last 30 years.
>
> Kudos to Sotomayor for not jumping up to run over and strangle some  
> of the
> Repulicans. And kudos to her predecessors for not doing the same  
> with the
> opposition party in past nomination hearings.
>
> I firmly believe in and support our government. But these nomination
> hearings are simply a mechanism for the opposition party to drag on  
> the
> pre-destined approval process to both badger the nominee and also  
> hope they
> can somehow, magically find a "smoking gun" that simply isn't there.
>
> Allen Warren
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Bob Browning <rab at jurislex.com>
> To: Grovenet <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 12:20:23 PM
> Subject: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .
>
>
> I just heard Sen Coburn using a Dezi Arnas phrase from the Lucy  
> Show. Yet
> another reference to Sotomayor's latin heritage. These Republicans  
> never
> stop. If you're wondering what they're doing they're playing to the  
> base.
> Recall what Limbaugh (the figure head of the conservative movement)  
> remarked
> early in this process: "Sotomayor is a racist" (paraphrased).  
> That's what
> they're probing for. They are looking to affirm their
> "reverse-discrimination" mantra. These guys are intent on making this
> nomination about race apprently because the latina woman has had  
> her foot on
> the throat of conservative white male elites for such a long time.  
> It really
> is an insight into the sociopathology and dogmatic intellect of the
> conservative mind.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From stevedj at teleport.com  Wed Jul 15 18:12:55 2009
From: stevedj at teleport.com (Steve Jerrett)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 18:12:55 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .
References: <4A5E2BF7.2040502@jurislex.com><276731.26069.qm@web35202.mail.mud.yahoo.com><1C080F154C754069A28A8BE6F5865377@Maincomputer>
	<DAFE1DEA-6121-4D38-999F-2BA853DE93FF@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <0ECC81AA967342FDBD89C6EF6FEDD3F7@Maincomputer>

Katie,

The only way to remove racism from the statement is to remove racial words 
as in "Give me  a person that's
 been through the school of hard knocks over an ignorant one any   day." 
Sotomayer chose to add race., which makes it more difficult to determine her 
true intent. I will agree that she was probably trying to negate race by 
pointing out that wisdom is a trait of all races, but she left a lot of room 
for interpretation or misinterpretation.

If she was attempting to convey a hope for true acceptance of all diversity, 
as in the words of Martin Luther King, "I have a dream that my four little 
children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the 
color of their skin but by the content of their character," she made a 
misguided, obfuscated attempt. There was no need for her to inject race when 
it needs to be stated so simply and concisely. No blanks needed.

Steve
.




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Katie Allnutt" <allnutt at verizon.net>
To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 5:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .


> If a southern senator said "Give me a a good ol' white man that's
> been through the school of hard knocks over an ignorant _________ any
> day", I think that everyone would agree with him regardless of how
> you fill in the blank. At least I would.  Ignorant people come in all
> colors and I'd rather have a wise one than a dumb one.
>
> If we as a society are to truly transcend this hypocritical cycle, we
> all must be honest and willing to recognize that wise people come in
> all colors too.  But since a lot of people don't seem to recognize
> that wise people do come in all colors we get stuck trying to put
> meanings to words taken out of context.
>
> Progressives aren't denouncing Sotomayor's statement because it
> wasn't racist in the context of the full speech and it wasn't racist
> given your own example of the ol' white guy vs the ignorant guy.
>
> Katie
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 15, 2009, at 2:46 PM, Steve Jerrett wrote:
>
>> "I would hope that a wise Latina woman with the richness of her
>> experiences
>> would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white
>> male who
>> hasn't lived that life,"  was stated by Sandra Sotomayor, 2001.
>>
>> That my be true, but why the racism? It seems that anyone,
>> regardless of
>> race, with a rich life experience would bring more to the table
>> than someone
>> that has led a sheltered life.
>>
>> We all probably know that if the reverse were uttered by a white man,
>> widespread outrage would ensue. Imagine the outrage if a  southern
>> senator
>> stated "give me a good ol' white man that's been through the school
>> of hard
>> knocks over an ignorant Mexican any day."
>>
>> Why aren't "progressives" joining in to denounce Sotomayor's blatantly
>> racist statement? Instead,  such questioning is dismissed  as
>> fractious
>> rhetoric.
>>
>> If we as a society are to truly transcend this hypocritical cycle,
>> we all
>> must be honest and willing to denounce racism from all sources.
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Allen Warren" <osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com>
>> To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 12:37 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .
>>
>>
>> It really is sad how our Congressional so-called "leaders" put
>> Supreme Court
>> nominees through the wringer. It's bad enough that nominees like
>> Sotomayor
>> have to first run a gauntlet just to reach the point where they can be
>> considered as a nominee, but then each nominee has to sit through
>> pompous,
>> scathing badgering which is mostly show with little substance. And
>> it's not
>> just Sotomayor I'm talking about. It's all of her predecessors in
>> at least
>> the last 30 years.
>>
>> Kudos to Sotomayor for not jumping up to run over and strangle some
>> of the
>> Repulicans. And kudos to her predecessors for not doing the same
>> with the
>> opposition party in past nomination hearings.
>>
>> I firmly believe in and support our government. But these nomination
>> hearings are simply a mechanism for the opposition party to drag on
>> the
>> pre-destined approval process to both badger the nominee and also
>> hope they
>> can somehow, magically find a "smoking gun" that simply isn't there.
>>
>> Allen Warren
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Bob Browning <rab at jurislex.com>
>> To: Grovenet <grovenet at rdrop.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 12:20:23 PM
>> Subject: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .
>>
>>
>> I just heard Sen Coburn using a Dezi Arnas phrase from the Lucy
>> Show. Yet
>> another reference to Sotomayor's latin heritage. These Republicans
>> never
>> stop. If you're wondering what they're doing they're playing to the
>> base.
>> Recall what Limbaugh (the figure head of the conservative movement)
>> remarked
>> early in this process: "Sotomayor is a racist" (paraphrased).
>> That's what
>> they're probing for. They are looking to affirm their
>> "reverse-discrimination" mantra. These guys are intent on making this
>> nomination about race apprently because the latina woman has had
>> her foot on
>> the throat of conservative white male elites for such a long time.
>> It really
>> is an insight into the sociopathology and dogmatic intellect of the
>> conservative mind.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> 


From allnutt at verizon.net  Wed Jul 15 19:15:56 2009
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 19:15:56 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .
In-Reply-To: <0ECC81AA967342FDBD89C6EF6FEDD3F7@Maincomputer>
References: <4A5E2BF7.2040502@jurislex.com><276731.26069.qm@web35202.mail.mud.yahoo.com><1C080F154C754069A28A8BE6F5865377@Maincomputer>
	<DAFE1DEA-6121-4D38-999F-2BA853DE93FF@verizon.net>
	<0ECC81AA967342FDBD89C6EF6FEDD3F7@Maincomputer>
Message-ID: <349540A3-C745-4AC5-A3E2-00FD4BE33C57@verizon.net>

Ah, I understand now.  When you are specifically trying to encourage  
a group of Latina women you should never use the phrase 'wise Latina  
woman'. Because 15 or 20 years from now it will be hard to determine  
your true intent from one statement taken out of context.

We are all forewarned.....

; )

Katie




On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:12 PM, Steve Jerrett wrote:

> Katie,
>
> The only way to remove racism from the statement is to remove  
> racial words
> as in "Give me  a person that's
>  been through the school of hard knocks over an ignorant one any    
> day."
> Sotomayer chose to add race., which makes it more difficult to  
> determine her
> true intent. I will agree that she was probably trying to negate  
> race by
> pointing out that wisdom is a trait of all races, but she left a  
> lot of room
> for interpretation or misinterpretation.
>
> If she was attempting to convey a hope for true acceptance of all  
> diversity,
> as in the words of Martin Luther King, "I have a dream that my four  
> little
> children will one day live in a nation where they will not be  
> judged by the
> color of their skin but by the content of their character," she made a
> misguided, obfuscated attempt. There was no need for her to inject  
> race when
> it needs to be stated so simply and concisely. No blanks needed.
>
> Steve
> .
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Katie Allnutt" <allnutt at verizon.net>
> To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 5:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .
>
>
>> If a southern senator said "Give me a a good ol' white man that's
>> been through the school of hard knocks over an ignorant _________ any
>> day", I think that everyone would agree with him regardless of how
>> you fill in the blank. At least I would.  Ignorant people come in all
>> colors and I'd rather have a wise one than a dumb one.
>>
>> If we as a society are to truly transcend this hypocritical cycle, we
>> all must be honest and willing to recognize that wise people come in
>> all colors too.  But since a lot of people don't seem to recognize
>> that wise people do come in all colors we get stuck trying to put
>> meanings to words taken out of context.
>>
>> Progressives aren't denouncing Sotomayor's statement because it
>> wasn't racist in the context of the full speech and it wasn't racist
>> given your own example of the ol' white guy vs the ignorant guy.
>>
>> Katie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jul 15, 2009, at 2:46 PM, Steve Jerrett wrote:
>>
>>> "I would hope that a wise Latina woman with the richness of her
>>> experiences
>>> would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white
>>> male who
>>> hasn't lived that life,"  was stated by Sandra Sotomayor, 2001.
>>>
>>> That my be true, but why the racism? It seems that anyone,
>>> regardless of
>>> race, with a rich life experience would bring more to the table
>>> than someone
>>> that has led a sheltered life.
>>>
>>> We all probably know that if the reverse were uttered by a white  
>>> man,
>>> widespread outrage would ensue. Imagine the outrage if a  southern
>>> senator
>>> stated "give me a good ol' white man that's been through the school
>>> of hard
>>> knocks over an ignorant Mexican any day."
>>>
>>> Why aren't "progressives" joining in to denounce Sotomayor's  
>>> blatantly
>>> racist statement? Instead,  such questioning is dismissed  as
>>> fractious
>>> rhetoric.
>>>
>>> If we as a society are to truly transcend this hypocritical cycle,
>>> we all
>>> must be honest and willing to denounce racism from all sources.
>>>
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Allen Warren" <osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com>
>>> To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 12:37 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .
>>>
>>>
>>> It really is sad how our Congressional so-called "leaders" put
>>> Supreme Court
>>> nominees through the wringer. It's bad enough that nominees like
>>> Sotomayor
>>> have to first run a gauntlet just to reach the point where they  
>>> can be
>>> considered as a nominee, but then each nominee has to sit through
>>> pompous,
>>> scathing badgering which is mostly show with little substance. And
>>> it's not
>>> just Sotomayor I'm talking about. It's all of her predecessors in
>>> at least
>>> the last 30 years.
>>>
>>> Kudos to Sotomayor for not jumping up to run over and strangle some
>>> of the
>>> Repulicans. And kudos to her predecessors for not doing the same
>>> with the
>>> opposition party in past nomination hearings.
>>>
>>> I firmly believe in and support our government. But these nomination
>>> hearings are simply a mechanism for the opposition party to drag on
>>> the
>>> pre-destined approval process to both badger the nominee and also
>>> hope they
>>> can somehow, magically find a "smoking gun" that simply isn't there.
>>>
>>> Allen Warren
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Bob Browning <rab at jurislex.com>
>>> To: Grovenet <grovenet at rdrop.com>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 12:20:23 PM
>>> Subject: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .
>>>
>>>
>>> I just heard Sen Coburn using a Dezi Arnas phrase from the Lucy
>>> Show. Yet
>>> another reference to Sotomayor's latin heritage. These Republicans
>>> never
>>> stop. If you're wondering what they're doing they're playing to the
>>> base.
>>> Recall what Limbaugh (the figure head of the conservative movement)
>>> remarked
>>> early in this process: "Sotomayor is a racist" (paraphrased).
>>> That's what
>>> they're probing for. They are looking to affirm their
>>> "reverse-discrimination" mantra. These guys are intent on making  
>>> this
>>> nomination about race apprently because the latina woman has had
>>> her foot on
>>> the throat of conservative white male elites for such a long time.
>>> It really
>>> is an insight into the sociopathology and dogmatic intellect of the
>>> conservative mind.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GroveNet mailing list
>>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GroveNet mailing list
>>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 15 23:14:50 2009
From: osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com (Allen Warren)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 23:14:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .
In-Reply-To: <0ECC81AA967342FDBD89C6EF6FEDD3F7@Maincomputer>
References: <4A5E2BF7.2040502@jurislex.com><276731.26069.qm@web35202.mail.mud.yahoo.com><1C080F154C754069A28A8BE6F5865377@Maincomputer>
	<DAFE1DEA-6121-4D38-999F-2BA853DE93FF@verizon.net>
	<0ECC81AA967342FDBD89C6EF6FEDD3F7@Maincomputer>
Message-ID: <547233.79262.qm@web35204.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Steve,

Even?the phrase "Give me a person that's been through the school of hard knocks over an ignorant one any day", while not?containing any racist language can easily be interpreted as demeaning and derogatory.??If Sotomayor would've made that statement in her speech of many years ago no doubt Republican Senators would've grilled her with questions such as "Are you suggesting a person who has not been through the school of hard knocks is ignorant?"

With Sotomayor, as with any Supreme Court nominee,?I believe we have to look at the body of their work in the judicial system.? I'm not saying any nominee with a storied body of work should get an automatic pass.??What I'm saying is?like with Sotomayor if we burrow in on statements made these oh-so-many years ago, and don't?weigh these few remarks against the entire body of judicial work a candidate has done, then every candidate will have problems and we'll end up not selecting a new Court Justice.
?
Allen Warren


________________________________
From: Steve Jerrett <stevedj at teleport.com>
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 6:12:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .

Katie,

The only way to remove racism from the statement is to remove racial words 
as in "Give me? a person that's
been through the school of hard knocks over an ignorant one any? day." 
Sotomayer chose to add race., which makes it more difficult to determine her 
true intent. I will agree that she was probably trying to negate race by 
pointing out that wisdom is a trait of all races, but she left a lot of room 
for interpretation or misinterpretation.

If she was attempting to convey a hope for true acceptance of all diversity, 
as in the words of Martin Luther King, "I have a dream that my four little 
children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the 
color of their skin but by the content of their character," she made a 
misguided, obfuscated attempt. There was no need for her to inject race when 
it needs to be stated so simply and concisely. No blanks needed.

Steve
.




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Katie Allnutt" <allnutt at verizon.net>
To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 5:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .


> If a southern senator said "Give me a a good ol' white man that's
> been through the school of hard knocks over an ignorant _________ any
> day", I think that everyone would agree with him regardless of how
> you fill in the blank. At least I would.? Ignorant people come in all
> colors and I'd rather have a wise one than a dumb one.
>
> If we as a society are to truly transcend this hypocritical cycle, we
> all must be honest and willing to recognize that wise people come in
> all colors too.? But since a lot of people don't seem to recognize
> that wise people do come in all colors we get stuck trying to put
> meanings to words taken out of context.
>
> Progressives aren't denouncing Sotomayor's statement because it
> wasn't racist in the context of the full speech and it wasn't racist
> given your own example of the ol' white guy vs the ignorant guy.
>
> Katie
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 15, 2009, at 2:46 PM, Steve Jerrett wrote:
>
>> "I would hope that a wise Latina woman with the richness of her
>> experiences
>> would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white
>> male who
>> hasn't lived that life,"? was stated by Sandra Sotomayor, 2001.
>>
>> That my be true, but why the racism? It seems that anyone,
>> regardless of
>> race, with a rich life experience would bring more to the table
>> than someone
>> that has led a sheltered life.
>>
>> We all probably know that if the reverse were uttered by a white man,
>> widespread outrage would ensue. Imagine the outrage if a? southern
>> senator
>> stated "give me a good ol' white man that's been through the school
>> of hard
>> knocks over an ignorant Mexican any day."
>>
>> Why aren't "progressives" joining in to denounce Sotomayor's blatantly
>> racist statement? Instead,? such questioning is dismissed? as
>> fractious
>> rhetoric.
>>
>> If we as a society are to truly transcend this hypocritical cycle,
>> we all
>> must be honest and willing to denounce racism from all sources.
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Allen Warren" <osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com>
>> To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 12:37 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .
>>
>>
>> It really is sad how our Congressional so-called "leaders" put
>> Supreme Court
>> nominees through the wringer. It's bad enough that nominees like
>> Sotomayor
>> have to first run a gauntlet just to reach the point where they can be
>> considered as a nominee, but then each nominee has to sit through
>> pompous,
>> scathing badgering which is mostly show with little substance. And
>> it's not
>> just Sotomayor I'm talking about. It's all of her predecessors in
>> at least
>> the last 30 years.
>>
>> Kudos to Sotomayor for not jumping up to run over and strangle some
>> of the
>> Repulicans. And kudos to her predecessors for not doing the same
>> with the
>> opposition party in past nomination hearings.
>>
>> I firmly believe in and support our government. But these nomination
>> hearings are simply a mechanism for the opposition party to drag on
>> the
>> pre-destined approval process to both badger the nominee and also
>> hope they
>> can somehow, magically find a "smoking gun" that simply isn't there.
>>
>> Allen Warren
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Bob Browning <rab at jurislex.com>
>> To: Grovenet <grovenet at rdrop.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 12:20:23 PM
>> Subject: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .
>>
>>
>> I just heard Sen Coburn using a Dezi Arnas phrase from the Lucy
>> Show. Yet
>> another reference to Sotomayor's latin heritage. These Republicans
>> never
>> stop. If you're wondering what they're doing they're playing to the
>> base.
>> Recall what Limbaugh (the figure head of the conservative movement)
>> remarked
>> early in this process: "Sotomayor is a racist" (paraphrased).
>> That's what
>> they're probing for. They are looking to affirm their
>> "reverse-discrimination" mantra. These guys are intent on making this
>> nomination about race apprently because the latina woman has had
>> her foot on
>> the throat of conservative white male elites for such a long time.
>> It really
>> is an insight into the sociopathology and dogmatic intellect of the
>> conservative mind.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> 

_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



      

From waltw at teleport.com  Wed Jul 15 23:37:19 2009
From: waltw at teleport.com (Walt Wentz)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 23:37:19 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .
In-Reply-To: <5F6C2E5F440D407D83DEE1848008B13F@Maincomputer>
References: <4A5E2BF7.2040502@jurislex.com><276731.26069.qm@web35202.mail.mud.yahoo.com><1C080F154C754069A28A8BE6F5865377@Maincomputer>
	<27948B57-BD57-42A6-850E-D9AD6CDF45F4@teleport.com>
	<5F6C2E5F440D407D83DEE1848008B13F@Maincomputer>
Message-ID: <7824BCD2-9A4D-43BD-AF81-A6427649E14C@teleport.com>

Consider also the context of the speech... she was speaking to and  
about other Latinas.
So, what SHOULD she have said?
"I  would hope that a wise 7th-gender Martian with the richness of  
its experiences would more often than not reach a better conclusion  
than a human who hasn't lived that life?"
Blaaaagh... if this is the worst the Repuglicans can dig up to prove  
Sotomayer "blatantly racist"-- because they can't attack her  
experience or intelligence-- then "I would hope" that they would have  
the good grace to pack it in and stop wasting the government's time  
and the public's patience. It is sourly amusing to see a fossilized  
legislator who once joked about the Ku Klux Klan now trying to paint  
as racist a woman who is,  "I would hope," his moral and intellectual  
superior.
Walt
On Jul 15, 2009, at 4:54 PM, Steve Jerrett wrote:

> Walt stated,
>
> "What is implicit in her sentence is that a white male-- or anybody--
> who HAD lived "that life" might also reach "good conclusions."
>
> I can't agree with your assessment as to her implications. If she  
> had stated
> "I would hope that a wise person with a richness of
>  experiences   would more often than not reach a better conclusion  
> than one
> that    hasn't lived that life," I would be more inclined to agree  
> with you.
> But, she chose to interject race and gender. That makes her statement
> multi-faceted, and much more difficult to ascertain her intent.
>
>
> My whole point, regardless of her intent, is that the same  
> statement would
> cause a firestorm of backlash if uttered by a conservative. Many  
> seem to
> assume that racism is inherent only to "rich, old, white, right-wing
> Southern men," but would never entertain the thought that a  
> "progressive"
> Latina would harbor any racist tendencies. I believe the scrutiny  
> in her
> case is appropriate. This is the Supreme Court, after all.
>
> As for having to live "that life" to be able to recognize racism is  
> absurd.
> Enough said.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Walt Wentz" <waltw at teleport.com>
> To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 4:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .
>
>
>> Kindly read the entire sentence...
>> "I would hope..."
>> That means this is an optimistic speculation on her part.  She said,
>> "I would hope," not "I say" or "I believe" or even "The Bible  
>> proves."
>> "...a white male  who HASN'T LIVED THAT LIFE."
>> Get it? Hasn't. Lived. That. Life.
>> What is implicit in her sentence is that a white male-- or anybody--
>> who HAD lived "that life" might also reach "good conclusions."
>>
>> My own reaction, listening to the endless blathering of the Repub
>> politicos and spinmeisters, is that rich, old, white, right-wing
>> Southern men not only have never lived "that life," they wouldn't
>> recognize racism if it bit them on the keister-- because it never  
>> has!
>> They have always been on the delivering end, not the receiving one.
>> Walt
>>
>> On Jul 15, 2009, at 2:46 PM, Steve Jerrett wrote:
>>
>>> "I would hope that a wise Latina woman with the richness of her
>>> experiences
>>> would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white
>>> male who
>>> hasn't lived that life,"  was stated by Sandra Sotomayor, 2001.
>>>
>>> That my be true, but why the racism? It seems that anyone,
>>> regardless of
>>> race, with a rich life experience would bring more to the table
>>> than someone
>>> that has led a sheltered life.
>>>
>>> We all probably know that if the reverse were uttered by a white  
>>> man,
>>> widespread outrage would ensue. Imagine the outrage if a  southern
>>> senator
>>> stated "give me a good ol' white man that's been through the school
>>> of hard
>>> knocks over an ignorant Mexican any day."
>>>
>>> Why aren't "progressives" joining in to denounce Sotomayor's  
>>> blatantly
>>> racist statement? Instead,  such questioning is dismissed  as
>>> fractious
>>> rhetoric.
>>>
>>> If we as a society are to truly transcend this hypocritical cycle,
>>> we all
>>> must be honest and willing to denounce racism from all sources.
>>>
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Allen Warren" <osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com>
>>> To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 12:37 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .
>>>
>>>
>>> It really is sad how our Congressional so-called "leaders" put
>>> Supreme Court
>>> nominees through the wringer. It's bad enough that nominees like
>>> Sotomayor
>>> have to first run a gauntlet just to reach the point where they  
>>> can be
>>> considered as a nominee, but then each nominee has to sit through
>>> pompous,
>>> scathing badgering which is mostly show with little substance. And
>>> it's not
>>> just Sotomayor I'm talking about. It's all of her predecessors in
>>> at least
>>> the last 30 years.
>>>
>>> Kudos to Sotomayor for not jumping up to run over and strangle some
>>> of the
>>> Repulicans. And kudos to her predecessors for not doing the same
>>> with the
>>> opposition party in past nomination hearings.
>>>
>>> I firmly believe in and support our government. But these nomination
>>> hearings are simply a mechanism for the opposition party to drag on
>>> the
>>> pre-destined approval process to both badger the nominee and also
>>> hope they
>>> can somehow, magically find a "smoking gun" that simply isn't there.
>>>
>>> Allen Warren
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Bob Browning <rab at jurislex.com>
>>> To: Grovenet <grovenet at rdrop.com>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 12:20:23 PM
>>> Subject: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .
>>>
>>>
>>> I just heard Sen Coburn using a Dezi Arnas phrase from the Lucy
>>> Show. Yet
>>> another reference to Sotomayor's latin heritage. These Republicans
>>> never
>>> stop. If you're wondering what they're doing they're playing to the
>>> base.
>>> Recall what Limbaugh (the figure head of the conservative movement)
>>> remarked
>>> early in this process: "Sotomayor is a racist" (paraphrased).
>>> That's what
>>> they're probing for. They are looking to affirm their
>>> "reverse-discrimination" mantra. These guys are intent on making  
>>> this
>>> nomination about race apprently because the latina woman has had
>>> her foot on
>>> the throat of conservative white male elites for such a long time.
>>> It really
>>> is an insight into the sociopathology and dogmatic intellect of the
>>> conservative mind.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GroveNet mailing list
>>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GroveNet mailing list
>>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From jo.david at verizon.net  Wed Jul 15 23:51:05 2009
From: jo.david at verizon.net (David Morelli)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 23:51:05 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] From Politico . . .
In-Reply-To: <1C080F154C754069A28A8BE6F5865377@Maincomputer>
References: <4A5E2BF7.2040502@jurislex.com>
	<276731.26069.qm@web35202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<1C080F154C754069A28A8BE6F5865377@Maincomputer>
Message-ID: <B22B3094-A071-4876-B570-957541477D33@verizon.net>

<quote>

The following is [excerpted from] the text of the Judge Mario G.  
Olmos Memorial Lecture in 2001, delivered at the University of  
California, Berkeley, School of Law, by appeals court judge Sonia  
Sotomayor.

...

Justice O'Connor has often been cited as saying that a wise old man  
and wise old woman will reach the same conclusion in deciding cases.  
I am not so sure Justice O'Connor is the author of that line ... I am  
also not so sure that I agree with the statement. First, ..., there  
can never be a universal definition of wise. Second, I would hope  
that a wise Latina woman with the richness of her experiences would  
more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white male who  
hasn't lived that life.

Let us not forget that wise men like Oliver Wendell Holmes and  
Justice Cardozo voted on cases which upheld both sex and race  
discrimination in our society. Until 1972, no Supreme Court case ever  
upheld the claim of a woman in a gender discrimination case.

...

As reported by Judge Patricia Wald formerly of the D.C. Circuit  
Court, three women on the Minnesota Court with two men dissenting  
agreed to grant a protective order against a father's visitation  
rights when the father abused his child.

...

  She [Judge Cedarbaum] rightly points out that the perception of the  
differences between men and women is what led to many paternalistic  
laws and to the denial to women of the right to vote because we were  
described then "as not capable of reasoning or thinking logically"  
but instead of "acting intuitively." I am quoting adjectives that  
were bandied around famously during the suffragettes' movement.

...

Personal experiences affect the facts that judges choose to see.

...

There are still nearly 37 district courts with no women judges at all.

...

No African-American, male or female, sits today on the Fourth or  
Federal circuits. And no Hispanics, male or female, sit on the  
Fourth, Sixth, Seventh, Eighth, District of Columbia or Federal  
Circuits.

...

In at least the last five years the majority of nominated judges the  
Senate delayed more than one year before confirming or never  
confirming were women or minorities.

...

</quote>

from http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/15/us/politics/15judge.text.html

**************************
Personal experiences affect the facts that each of us choose to see.

The United States invaded Iraq because the Administration could "see"  
a threat from weapons of mass destruction.
Today, their supporters can "see" that we invaded Iraq to secure  
Democracy in that country.
Conservative commentators can "see" that President Obama is a Socialist.
I don't "see" any of that, because I have different personal  
experiences.

David

From theresacus at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 16 03:51:35 2009
From: theresacus at yahoo.com (Theresa Carter)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 03:51:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] GroveNet Digest, Vol 56, Issue 10
In-Reply-To: <mailman.15.1247684410.12739.grovenet@rdrop.com>
Message-ID: <60234.79592.qm@web34506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I lean towards the beliefs of the gay mens chior.? "Unless we all practice equality and mutual respect for each others achievments we will never find equality."? They accept all those who love to sing.? 
?
Theresa Carter?

--- On Wed, 7/15/09, grovenet-request at rdrop.com <grovenet-request at rdrop.com> wrote:


From: grovenet-request at rdrop.com <grovenet-request at rdrop.com>
Subject: GroveNet Digest, Vol 56, Issue 10
To: grovenet at rdrop.com
Date: Wednesday, July 15, 2009, 12:00 PM


Send GroveNet mailing list submissions to
??? grovenet at rdrop.com

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
??? http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
??? grovenet-request at rdrop.com

You can reach the person managing the list at
??? grovenet-owner at rdrop.com

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of GroveNet digest..."


Today's Topics:

???1. Re: A few excellent thoughts on what it means to be
? ? ? an"American" . . . (Steven)
???2. Re: A few excellent thoughts on what it means to be
? ? ? an"American" . . . (Holly T.)
???3. Re: A few excellent thoughts on what it means to be
? ? ? an"American" . . . (David Morelli)
???4. Re: A few excellent thoughts on what it means to be
? ? ? an"American" . . . (Steven)
???5. Re: A few excellent thoughts on what it means to be
? ? ? an"American" . . . (Walt Wentz)
???6. Re: A few excellent thoughts on what it means to be
? ? ? an"American" . . . (Holly T.)
???7. Smoking is getting expensive (Katie Allnutt)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 12:47:49 -0700
From: "Steven" <NoSpam03 at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] A few excellent thoughts on what it means to
??? be??? an"American" . . .
To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Message-ID: <FBEAKAJNIJPKEDCBPHFNKEJBMHAA.NoSpam03 at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Fine, you should be punished. I can see that. My family always fought for
freedoms. Yet just because my dad married a white woman, I am less a
citizen. 
You are a woman and garner much of the benefits removed from me.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com]On
> Behalf Of Holly T.
> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 11:55 AM
> To: Forest Grove local interests list
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] A few excellent thoughts on what it means to be
> an"American" . . .
> 
> 
> Sure, Steven, like you, equal opportunity has made it harder for 
> me to compete for jobs against those who are members of racial 
> minorities during my career that spans over 30 years. Equal 
> opportunity also prevented my daughter, who had a 3.7 
> accumulative GPA in her first four years of college, from getting 
> accepted into the free-ride Doctorate program that she wanted 
> because students who were inept at the nuances of the English 
> language were chosen over her because they were from foreign 
> countries that were on the quota list. 
> 
> But, when my grandmother was born in Tennessee, she was actually 
> suckled by a Negro mammy wet nurse because my great-grandmother 
> didn't have enough milk to feed her. Had that very special 
> Afro-American woman not been willing to feed my grandmother, I 
> very likely wouldn't be here today. My grandmother grew up on her 
> father's plantation that was far away from the closest neighbor. 
> The share croppers who worked my great-grandfather's plantation 
> were the children and grandchildren of slaves who remained 
> because they couldn't get jobs to feed their children following 
> emancipation. 
> 
> So, I've always done my best to be extremely nice to 
> Afro-Americans for that reason, and I tend to look the other way 
> and figure that minorities deserve whatever they get when I see 
> them being given preferential treatment. Especially when you 
> consider what our imperialistic ancestors did to destroy many of 
> their cultures. 
> 
> The only thing that bugs me is that you'd think I might've gotten 
> a little more rhythm out of the deal than I did, but no such 
> luck. Anyway, it's not how well you dance in life--just that you 
> dance, right?!
> 
> Holly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Steven <NoSpam03 at comcast.net>
> To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 11:29:39 AM
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] A few excellent thoughts on what it means 
> to be an "American" . . .
> 
> Sure rings true about white guys.
> I don't think that white guys wrote the book on American Culture. It was
> just that there were more of us and we were the ones required to 
> go out and
> get the jobs in that culture.
> White guys were mostly in charge in European Culture, or British Culture.
> 
> The equal opportunity stuff sure ruined my advancement in the 70s 
> and 80s. I
> suffered yet my ancestors fought for the north in the Civil War. Why was I
> punished?
>???-----Original Message-----
>???From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com]On
> Behalf Of Bob Browning
>???Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 10:26 AM
>???To: Grovenet
>???Subject: [Grovenet] A few excellent thoughts on what it means to be an
> "American" . .
> 
>???A: Yes -- although the problem is that white people, men in particular,
> are not allowed that same opportunity. Until we can figure out if 
> ?American
> culture? means ?white culture? or something new, this problem will remain.
> 
>???-Michael Giarrusso, AP regional news director
> 
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> 
> 
> 
>? ? ???
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> 

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 15:09:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Holly T." <feralcattamer at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] A few excellent thoughts on what it means to
??? be??? an"American" . . .
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Message-ID: <356504.56123.qm at web56103.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Yes, Steven, as a woman, I have, no doubt, "garnered" many benefits that you likely haven't enjoyed as a white male. But, I have also endured sexual harassment more times than I care to count. Not to mention the fact that I once was given a totally sexist performance review by a chauvinist pig of a boss who praised at length the fact that I did some technical magazine photography modeling for the company on my own time, while he mentioned nothing about the fact that, over the course of just three months, I single handedly authored a 200-page technical user's guide that received numerous accolades from all over the company not to mention from customers. And, let's not forget the stalkers, the crank callers, and the email creeps whose nonsense I endured during my 30-year career. And, just because most men today have been educated about the evils of sexual harassment doesn't mean that it isn't still happening. Sexual harassment is still alive and thriving
in today's workplace. Just ask any pretty woman.

Just like you might've noticed more than a few inequities on your side, it's not all rosy from this vantage point either.

One more thing:? Let's make it perfectly clear that I don't consider it a "punishment" when an Afro-American woman or an Asian man lands a job that I've applied for or gets a promotion instead of me. You may be a rare exception, but most of us Caucasians can't be so crystal-clear certain as you seem to be about their how lily-white pure their ancestors were when it came to discrimination against minorities. If you've ever read Derrick Jensen's The Culture of Make Believe, you'd know that lynchings were still prevalent in the Deep South as recently as the late 60s, and they still do occur occasionally even today. You'd know that our wonderful country (the home of the free and the brave???) imprisons a higher percentage of our population than any nation on Earth, and the vast majority of those jailed are people of color. I don't believe that any of us are totally innocent when it comes to racial discrimination. I believe that most of us owe compensation
 to
those cultures that our ancestors have raped, enslaved, and annihilated.? Even if we did not participate directly in those despicable acts. Even if our fathers and grandfather's "fought for freedom". 

Honoring minorities and stepping aside to help them better their lives is not a punishment for me. It's compensation for what my ancestors did to the cultures that they squelched in the past. It's the very least I can do under the circumstances.

Holly




________________________________
From: Steven <NoSpam03 at comcast.net>
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 12:47:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] A few excellent thoughts on what it means to be an"American" . . .

Fine, you should be punished. I can see that. My family always fought for
freedoms. Yet just because my dad married a white woman, I am less a
citizen. 
You are a woman and garner much of the benefits removed from me.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com]On
> Behalf Of Holly T.
> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 11:55 AM
> To: Forest Grove local interests list
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] A few excellent thoughts on what it means to be
> an"American" . . .
> 
> 
> Sure, Steven, like you, equal opportunity has made it harder for 
> me to compete for jobs against those who are members of racial 
> minorities during my career that spans over 30 years. Equal 
> opportunity also prevented my daughter, who had a 3.7 
> accumulative GPA in her first four years of college, from getting 
> accepted into the free-ride Doctorate program that she wanted 
> because students who were inept at the nuances of the English 
> language were chosen over her because they were from foreign 
> countries that were on the quota list. 
> 
> But, when my grandmother was born in Tennessee, she was actually 
> suckled by a Negro mammy wet nurse because my great-grandmother 
> didn't have enough milk to feed her. Had that very special 
> Afro-American woman not been willing to feed my grandmother, I 
> very likely wouldn't be here today. My grandmother grew up on her 
> father's plantation that was far away from the closest neighbor. 
> The share croppers who worked my great-grandfather's plantation 
> were the children and grandchildren of slaves who remained 
> because they couldn't get jobs to feed their children following 
> emancipation. 
> 
> So, I've always done my best to be extremely nice to 
> Afro-Americans for that reason, and I tend to look the other way 
> and figure that minorities deserve whatever they get when I see 
> them being given preferential treatment. Especially when you 
> consider what our imperialistic ancestors did to destroy many of 
> their cultures. 
> 
> The only thing that bugs me is that you'd think I might've gotten 
> a little more rhythm out of the deal than I did, but no such 
> luck. Anyway, it's not how well you dance in life--just that you 
> dance, right?!
> 
> Holly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Steven <NoSpam03 at comcast.net>
> To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 11:29:39 AM
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] A few excellent thoughts on what it means 
> to be an "American" . . .
> 
> Sure rings true about white guys.
> I don't think that white guys wrote the book on American Culture. It was
> just that there were more of us and we were the ones required to 
> go out and
> get the jobs in that culture.
> White guys were mostly in charge in European Culture, or British Culture.
> 
> The equal opportunity stuff sure ruined my advancement in the 70s 
> and 80s. I
> suffered yet my ancestors fought for the north in the Civil War. Why was I
> punished?
>???-----Original Message-----
>???From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com]On
> Behalf Of Bob Browning
>???Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 10:26 AM
>???To: Grovenet
>???Subject: [Grovenet] A few excellent thoughts on what it means to be an
> "American" . .
> 
>???A: Yes -- although the problem is that white people, men in particular,
> are not allowed that same opportunity. Until we can figure out if 
> ?American
> culture? means ?white culture? or something new, this problem will remain.
> 
>???-Michael Giarrusso, AP regional news director
> 
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> 
> 
> 
>? ? ? 
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> 



? ? ? 

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 22:21:43 -0700
From: David Morelli <jo.david at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] A few excellent thoughts on what it means to
??? be an"American" . . .
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Message-ID: <CE3E874B-E533-4992-A228-F8538561255B at verizon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed


On Jul 14, 2009, at 12:47 PM, Steven wrote:

> ... Yet just because my dad married a white woman, I am less a? 
> citizen.
> You are a woman and garner much of the benefits removed from me.

Aw shucks!? I thought it was because you say things to irritate people.

David


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 09:04:21 -0700
From: "Steven" <NoSpam03 at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] A few excellent thoughts on what it means to
??? be??? an"American" . . .
To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Message-ID: <FBEAKAJNIJPKEDCBPHFNCEJDMHAA.NoSpam03 at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;??? charset="US-ASCII"

That too.
Should I be less of a citizen based on what I say? Or maybe they should
change the laws so that making bug art makes you unable to get health care.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com]On
> Behalf Of David Morelli
> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 10:22 PM
> To: Forest Grove local interests list
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] A few excellent thoughts on what it means to be
> an"American" . . .
>
>
>
> On Jul 14, 2009, at 12:47 PM, Steven wrote:
>
> > ... Yet just because my dad married a white woman, I am less a
> > citizen.
> > You are a woman and garner much of the benefits removed from me.
>
> Aw shucks!? I thought it was because you say things to irritate people.
>
> David
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 09:30:31 -0700
From: Walt Wentz <waltw at teleport.com>
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] A few excellent thoughts on what it means to
??? be??? an"American" . . .
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Message-ID: <F4DF0105-BCFF-4943-99C3-6201043FAB6D at teleport.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

Bug art? Please define. Is it a cartoon, jewelry or some kind of? 
collage using insect parts?

On Jul 15, 2009, at 9:04 AM, Steven wrote:

> That too.
> Should I be less of a citizen based on what I say? Or maybe they? 
> should
> change the laws so that making bug art makes you unable to get? 
> health care.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet- 
>> bounces at rdrop.com]On
>> Behalf Of David Morelli
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 10:22 PM
>> To: Forest Grove local interests list
>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] A few excellent thoughts on what it means? 
>> to be
>> an"American" . . .
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jul 14, 2009, at 12:47 PM, Steven wrote:
>>
>>> ... Yet just because my dad married a white woman, I am less a
>>> citizen.
>>> You are a woman and garner much of the benefits removed from me.
>>
>> Aw shucks!? I thought it was because you say things to irritate? 
>> people.
>>
>> David
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 10:00:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Holly T." <feralcattamer at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] A few excellent thoughts on what it means to
??? be??? an"American" . . .
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Message-ID: <512849.71194.qm at web56103.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Cool!? Would you please attach some photos of said bug art?? I'd love to see.

Holly




________________________________
From: Steven <NoSpam03 at comcast.net>
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:04:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] A few excellent thoughts on what it means to be an"American" . . .

That too.
Should I be less of a citizen based on what I say? Or maybe they should
change the laws so that making bug art makes you unable to get health care.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com]On
> Behalf Of David Morelli
> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 10:22 PM
> To: Forest Grove local interests list
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] A few excellent thoughts on what it means to be
> an"American" . . .
>
>
>
> On Jul 14, 2009, at 12:47 PM, Steven wrote:
>
> > ... Yet just because my dad married a white woman, I am less a
> > citizen.
> > You are a woman and garner much of the benefits removed from me.
>
> Aw shucks!? I thought it was because you say things to irritate people.
>
> David
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>

_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



? ? ? 

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 10:18:50 -0700
From: Katie Allnutt <allnutt at verizon.net>
Subject: [Grovenet] Smoking is getting expensive
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Message-ID: <8BE6B4C9-99A7-408F-9902-7AD4881FC9E2 at verizon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;??? charset=US-ASCII;??? format=flowed

??? 

Boy smoking is getting to be very expensive these days:

tiny url
http://tinyurl.com/lc2wkz


Katie



------------------------------

_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


End of GroveNet Digest, Vol 56, Issue 10
****************************************



      

From warner at aracnet.com  Fri Jul 17 00:17:43 2009
From: warner at aracnet.com (Cecelia Warner)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 00:17:43 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Yard Sale Fundraiser For Geared Grovers and MS Bike Ride
Message-ID: <3BFE8798-A005-406E-81E2-6A45543E4F0B@aracnet.com>

The Geared Grovers Bike Team is having a yard sale to raise money for  
the National Multiple Sclerosis Society's annual charity "MS Bike Ride."

The sale is Friday, July 17th and Saturday, July 18th from 9:00 a.m.  
to 6:00 p.m. at 2220 17th Avenue in Forest Grove. For more information  
contact Sebra Oden at (503) 357-6103 or Cecelia Warner at (503)  
357-5549.

From nuzriter at aol.com  Sun Jul 19 22:03:52 2009
From: nuzriter at aol.com (nuzriter at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 01:03:52 -0400
Subject: [Grovenet] (no subject)
Message-ID: <8CBD70E9C54201D-142C-80F2@webmail-dd12.sysops.aol.com>

Barb Smith. Please email me at nuzriter at aol.com

Linda Saari

From khourym at verizon.net  Tue Jul 21 09:39:21 2009
From: khourym at verizon.net (Martha Khoury)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 09:39:21 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] school supply lists
Message-ID: <307AFF22-7ACD-4DE2-86D2-4304E0794678@verizon.net>

Anybody seen them? I looked over the district website, but didn't find  
anything.

The stores are already starting their sales and I hate to have to pay  
high prices for last minute shopping!

--Martha K. 

From edavie at verizon.net  Tue Jul 21 09:43:58 2009
From: edavie at verizon.net (Ed Davie)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 09:43:58 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] school supply lists
References: <307AFF22-7ACD-4DE2-86D2-4304E0794678@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <49527A79B184483E9D9F5DE94F40900E@EDavie>

Here is the list of items needed for Operation 
School Supplies.

?         Backpacks

?         Fiskar round tip child's scissors

?         Fiskar pointed scissors

?         #2 pencils

?         Pink erasers

?         Pencil top erasers

?         Hand-held pencil sharpeners

?         Ballpoint pens (blue or black ink)

?         Ballpoint pens (red ink)

?         Yellow highlighters

?         White school glue

?         Glue sticks

?         Crayola crayons (16-64 count)

?         Washable markers

?         Colored pencils

?         Watercolor paints

?         Spiral notebooks (one subject)

?         College-ruled notebook paper

?         Wide-ruled notebook paper

?         Mead composition books

?         2" three-ring binders

?         3" three-ring binders

?         Pencil pouch for 3 ring binder

?         Dividers

?         Pee-Chee folders

?         Wooden rulers

?         Protractors

?         3.5" computer disks



Donations can be dropped off at the district 
office, 1728 Main Street, between 8 a.m. and 5 
p.m. Monday through Thursday
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Martha Khoury
  To: Forest Grove local interests list
  Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 9:39 AM
  Subject: [Grovenet] school supply lists


  Anybody seen them? I looked over the district 
website, but didn't find
  anything.

  The stores are already starting their sales and 
I hate to have to pay
  high prices for last minute shopping!

  --Martha K.
  _______________________________________________
  GroveNet mailing list
  GroveNet at rdrop.com
  http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Tue Jul 21 09:59:51 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 09:59:51 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] school supply lists
In-Reply-To: "Ed Davie" <edavie@verizon.net>'s message of Tue,
	21 Jul 2009 09:43:58 -0700
Message-ID: <26822-4A65F407-6658@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>

Mr. Ed...
why is it that you can't remember how to put your rain gauge back
together right, however you can list all of the school supplies?


From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Tue Jul 21 10:04:16 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 10:04:16 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Millions brace for century's longest eclipse - MSNBC
	Articles
Message-ID: <26821-4A65F510-8114@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>

Think we will at least catch a glimpse?

http://news.mobile.msn.com/en-us/articles.aspx?afid=1&aid=32011724

-------------- next part --------------
http://news.mobile.msn.com/en-us/articles.aspx?afid=1&aid=32011724

From rab at jurislex.com  Tue Jul 21 10:16:23 2009
From: rab at jurislex.com (Bob Browning)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 10:16:23 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Millions brace for century's longest eclipse - MSNBC
 Articles
In-Reply-To: <26821-4A65F510-8114@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>
References: <26821-4A65F510-8114@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>
Message-ID: <4A65F7E7.20807@jurislex.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: /pipermail/attachments/20090721/bc4cf2f9/attachment.html 

From allnutt at verizon.net  Tue Jul 21 11:23:18 2009
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 11:23:18 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Millions brace for century's longest eclipse - MSNBC
 Articles
In-Reply-To: <4A65F7E7.20807@jurislex.com>
References: <26821-4A65F510-8114@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>
	<4A65F7E7.20807@jurislex.com>
Message-ID: <22DFD41D-B01B-4F2E-8064-A3BD2E29F486@verizon.net>

We could catch a last minute plane to Hawaii and get a 20% eclipse  
just before sundown.

Expensive but technically possible.

And if you have a passport you could fly farther and see more.....


Katie

On Jul 21, 2009, at 10:16 AM, Bob Browning wrote:

> It appears that we will not be able to:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/lptkm4
>
> bob "moonwatcher" browning
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss wrote:
>>
>> Think we will at least catch a glimpse?
>>
>> http://news.mobile.msn.com/en-us/articles.aspx?afid=1&aid=32011724
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From g-g-steele at comcast.net  Tue Jul 21 11:32:15 2009
From: g-g-steele at comcast.net (Geri)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 11:32:15 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Millions brace for century's longest eclipse - MSNBC
	Articles
References: <26821-4A65F510-8114@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net><4A65F7E7.20807@jurislex.com>
	<22DFD41D-B01B-4F2E-8064-A3BD2E29F486@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <944CC6711B964D4CA1A191AFCED33D0F@gerianehzkfhvy>

Guess I'll just wait for some online photos ... from around the world!

;-D  Geri

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Katie Allnutt" <allnutt at verizon.net>
To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 11:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Millions brace for century's longest eclipse - MSNBC Articles


> We could catch a last minute plane to Hawaii and get a 20% eclipse  
> just before sundown.
> 
> Expensive but technically possible.
> 
> And if you have a passport you could fly farther and see more.....
> 
> 
> Katie
> 
> On Jul 21, 2009, at 10:16 AM, Bob Browning wrote:
> 
>> It appears that we will not be able to:
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/lptkm4
>>
>> bob "moonwatcher" browning
>> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss wrote:
>>>
>>> Think we will at least catch a glimpse?
>>>
>>> http://news.mobile.msn.com/en-us/articles.aspx?afid=1&aid=32011724
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> 
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>


From whatsupy2k at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 21 12:40:57 2009
From: whatsupy2k at yahoo.com (Vickie Madeoneup)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 12:40:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] school supply lists
In-Reply-To: <49527A79B184483E9D9F5DE94F40900E@EDavie>
Message-ID: <274000.80820.qm@web112412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Thank you so much for posting this and at the same time giving us the opportunity to remember a little way we can all help that can mean so much

Vickie

--- On Tue, 7/21/09, Ed Davie <edavie at verizon.net> wrote:

From: Ed Davie <edavie at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] school supply lists
To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Date: Tuesday, July 21, 2009, 9:43 AM

Here is the list of items needed for Operation 
School Supplies.

?? ? ? ???Backpacks

?? ? ? ???Fiskar round tip child's scissors

?? ? ? ???Fiskar pointed scissors

?? ? ? ???#2 pencils

?? ? ? ???Pink erasers

?? ? ? ???Pencil top erasers

?? ? ? ???Hand-held pencil sharpeners

?? ? ? ???Ballpoint pens (blue or black ink)

?? ? ? ???Ballpoint pens (red ink)

?? ? ? ???Yellow highlighters

?? ? ? ???White school glue

?? ? ? ???Glue sticks

?? ? ? ???Crayola crayons (16-64 count)

?? ? ? ???Washable markers

?? ? ? ???Colored pencils

?? ? ? ???Watercolor paints

?? ? ? ???Spiral notebooks (one subject)

?? ? ? ???College-ruled notebook paper

?? ? ? ???Wide-ruled notebook paper

?? ? ? ???Mead composition books

?? ? ? ???2" three-ring binders

?? ? ? ???3" three-ring binders

?? ? ? ???Pencil pouch for 3 ring binder

?? ? ? ???Dividers

?? ? ? ???Pee-Chee folders

?? ? ? ???Wooden rulers

?? ? ? ???Protractors

?? ? ? ???3.5" computer disks



Donations can be dropped off at the district 
office, 1728 Main Street, between 8 a.m. and 5 
p.m. Monday through Thursday
? ----- Original Message ----- 
? From: Martha Khoury
? To: Forest Grove local interests list
? Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 9:39 AM
? Subject: [Grovenet] school supply lists


? Anybody seen them? I looked over the district 
website, but didn't find
? anything.

? The stores are already starting their sales and 
I hate to have to pay
? high prices for last minute shopping!

? --Martha K.
? _______________________________________________
? GroveNet mailing list
? GroveNet at rdrop.com
? http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



      

From phoenixacup at gmail.com  Tue Jul 21 14:10:24 2009
From: phoenixacup at gmail.com (Jane Burch-Pesses)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 14:10:24 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] school supply lists
In-Reply-To: <274000.80820.qm@web112412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <49527A79B184483E9D9F5DE94F40900E@EDavie>
	<274000.80820.qm@web112412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <d6eeab3d0907211410s4b2ad9caoda2669c0354ed912@mail.gmail.com>

Since you are talking about one of my favorite charities (Operation School
Supplies) I will mention that I will be doing acupuncture demonstrations in
return for donations (school supplies or money-the district gets a great
discount when they buy the supplies) at First Wednesday, 4-8 pm, August 5.
And, yes, Walgreen's has had some great loss leader sales on school supplies
already, including backpacks at 2 for 19.99.  Sodexho Custodial Services
folks volunteer their time to pack the supplies for each grade level in
backpacks that are given to the students whose parents are not able to buy
their supplies for them.

Chamber members can bring school supplies to the next Chamber luncheon and I
will see that they are delivered to the School District for distribution.

Every kid should start the school year with the supplies they need!

Jane B-P

On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 12:40 PM, Vickie Madeoneup <whatsupy2k at yahoo.com>wrote:

> Thank you so much for posting this and at the same time giving us the
> opportunity to remember a little way we can all help that can mean so much
>
> Vickie
>
> --- On Tue, 7/21/09, Ed Davie <edavie at verizon.net> wrote:
>
> From: Ed Davie <edavie at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] school supply lists
> To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> Date: Tuesday, July 21, 2009, 9:43 AM
>
> Here is the list of items needed for Operation
> School Supplies.
>
> ?         Backpacks
>
> ?         Fiskar round tip child's scissors
>
> ?         Fiskar pointed scissors
>
> ?         #2 pencils
>
> ?         Pink erasers
>
> ?         Pencil top erasers
>
> ?         Hand-held pencil sharpeners
>
> ?         Ballpoint pens (blue or black ink)
>
> ?         Ballpoint pens (red ink)
>
> ?         Yellow highlighters
>
> ?         White school glue
>
> ?         Glue sticks
>
> ?         Crayola crayons (16-64 count)
>
> ?         Washable markers
>
> ?         Colored pencils
>
> ?         Watercolor paints
>
> ?         Spiral notebooks (one subject)
>
> ?         College-ruled notebook paper
>
> ?         Wide-ruled notebook paper
>
> ?         Mead composition books
>
> ?         2" three-ring binders
>
> ?         3" three-ring binders
>
> ?         Pencil pouch for 3 ring binder
>
> ?         Dividers
>
> ?         Pee-Chee folders
>
> ?         Wooden rulers
>
> ?         Protractors
>
> ?         3.5" computer disks
>
>
>
> Donations can be dropped off at the district
> office, 1728 Main Street, between 8 a.m. and 5
> p.m. Monday through Thursday
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Martha Khoury
>   To: Forest Grove local interests list
>   Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 9:39 AM
>   Subject: [Grovenet] school supply lists
>
>
>   Anybody seen them? I looked over the district
> website, but didn't find
>   anything.
>
>   The stores are already starting their sales and
> I hate to have to pay
>   high prices for last minute shopping!
>
>   --Martha K.
>   _______________________________________________
>   GroveNet mailing list
>   GroveNet at rdrop.com
>   http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>



-- 
Phoenix Acupuncture and Chinese Medicine
Home of the TAO (Team Against Obesity)
www.phoenix-acupuncture.net

From allnutt at verizon.net  Wed Jul 22 18:32:18 2009
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 18:32:18 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Good kid
Message-ID: <A1612A0A-18C2-4BB6-8197-D2C40B83D38E@verizon.net>

Hey Steve J.

    It's nice to see Andy's name in the paper for the local  
triathlon.  Good on 'ya for having a great kid.


Katie


From whatsupy2k at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 24 11:50:57 2009
From: whatsupy2k at yahoo.com (Vickie Madeoneup)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 11:50:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] does anyone have a wheelchair to loan
In-Reply-To: <8D94A946E17E9941AE94FC3AE11CAB7E03BBFD71B7@everest.ad.pacificu.edu>
Message-ID: <411352.70992.qm@web112415.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hello all

Our 89 year old mother is visiting and we want to take her around but she can't walk long.

Does anyone have a wheelchair they could part with for a day?

Thanks in advance

Vickie

whatsupy2k at yahoo.com



      

From JJSAW at aol.com  Fri Jul 24 15:38:08 2009
From: JJSAW at aol.com (JJSAW at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 18:38:08 EDT
Subject: [Grovenet] does anyone have a wheelchair to loan
Message-ID: <c59.50e257cd.379b91d0@aol.com>

Does she need it with or without footrests? It takes quite a bit of effort  
to hold your feet up when you're sitting.
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy 
steps! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377105x1201454426/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd
=JulystepsfooterNO115)

From rab at jurislex.com  Mon Jul 27 11:25:34 2009
From: rab at jurislex.com (Bob Browning)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 11:25:34 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] You help me; I help you!!
Message-ID: <4A6DF11E.7020103@jurislex.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: /pipermail/attachments/20090727/46a23c1d/attachment.html 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: skylo.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 2817 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : /pipermail/attachments/20090727/46a23c1d/attachment.jpg 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: 1966534947-best-pals-blind-dog-guide-dog.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 41529 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : /pipermail/attachments/20090727/46a23c1d/attachment-0001.jpg 

From g-g-steele at comcast.net  Mon Jul 27 11:42:47 2009
From: g-g-steele at comcast.net (Geri)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 11:42:47 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] You help me; I help you!!
References: <4A6DF11E.7020103@jurislex.com>
Message-ID: <5A788783117848BC800247894DDD7976@gerianehzkfhvy>

Very cool story, Bob!

  Geri


Best Pals: The Blind Dog And The Guide Dog 

Friday, July 24 02:05 pm

 ? Sky News 2009

It's not unusual for visually-impaired humans to rely on a guide dog - but now a shelter in Norfolk has found a blind border collie with his own inseparable canine companion.

 Best Pals: The Blind Dog And The Guide Dog Enlarge photo 

Best friends Bonnie and Clyde were brought to the animal shelter in Norfolk after they were found wandering the streets in a rain storm.

When the pair are together Clyde, five, seems as capable as a fully sighted dog - but he won't move unless Bonnie, two, is close.

Bonnie guides him on walks or towards food and lets him rest on her when he becomes disorientated.

Cherie Cootes, who runs the Meadown Green Dog Rescue Centre in Loddon, Norfolk, said: "He totally relies on her the whole time. When she walks she tends to stop and make sure he's there - she does look out for him."

Vicky Bell, a spokeswoman for Guide Dogs for the Blind Association, said she had never heard of a dog voluntarily acting as a guide for another dog.

"There's absolutely no option of homing them separately - they have to go as a pair," she said. "This is a very unusual case - it's such a lovely story.

"Some dogs take to guiding better than others because they naturally have the right temperament."
_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com 
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 2817 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : /pipermail/attachments/20090727/e5157cd8/attachment.jpe 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 41529 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : /pipermail/attachments/20090727/e5157cd8/attachment-0001.jpe 

From steelem at pacificu.edu  Mon Jul 27 11:50:46 2009
From: steelem at pacificu.edu (Steele, Mike)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 11:50:46 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Two more queries
In-Reply-To: <4A6DF11E.7020103@jurislex.com>
References: <4A6DF11E.7020103@jurislex.com>
Message-ID: <8D94A946E17E9941AE94FC3AE11CAB7E03C39BDCA9@everest.ad.pacificu.edu>

Grove-nuts...now that Bob has given us a nice uplift, I'm hoping that Grovers will have some suggestions regarding:

1.  Pop bottles to be given away...we have LOTS of these and have tried to give them away to NAMS for the Korea trip.  No one came by.  So, is there some youth group that would like to pick these up and cash them in?  Let me emphasize LOTS and LOTS of pop bottles.  Several hundred.  Contact me at this e-mail address.

2.  Any recommendations for folks who pick up yard debris?  The usual stuff-tree and bush prunings, etc.

Thanks!

--Mike

From edavie at verizon.net  Mon Jul 27 15:02:49 2009
From: edavie at verizon.net (Ed Davie)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 15:02:49 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Charities
Message-ID: <964E08E5FFA545B8BC577ECB988E46B3@EDavie>

I just received my most recent copy of the 
American Institute of Philanthropy Watchdog 
report.
You may all be familiar with this charity rating 
guide but ...

I couldn't help doing a little comparison 
shopping.
For example, out of 17 organizations under "Crime 
& Fire Prevention", 14 are rated "F" or poor!
Just a cursory look says they may spend as little 
as $2.00 for program out of every $100.00 raised 
in a worse case to possibly $30 in the best case.

Another really bad area is "Cancer".
Out of 39 organizations, 17 are rated "F".
Including for example:
    American Breast Cancer Foundation
    American Institute for Cancer Research
    Cancer Fund of America
    Cancer Recovery Foundation of America
    Etc. Etc.

If you aren't familiar with this publication check 
www.charitywatch.org.
or 773-529-2300. Published 3 times a year. A 
subscription costs $40.00 a year although I have 
always gotten it for $35.00.
Ed 

From rab at jurislex.com  Mon Jul 27 15:28:39 2009
From: rab at jurislex.com (Bob Browning)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 15:28:39 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Two more queries
In-Reply-To: <8D94A946E17E9941AE94FC3AE11CAB7E03C39BDCA9@everest.ad.pacificu.edu>
References: <4A6DF11E.7020103@jurislex.com>
	<8D94A946E17E9941AE94FC3AE11CAB7E03C39BDCA9@everest.ad.pacificu.edu>
Message-ID: <4A6E2A17.8000606@jurislex.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: /pipermail/attachments/20090727/aaccffa9/attachment.html 

From osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 27 17:08:39 2009
From: osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com (Allen Warren)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 17:08:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] Charities
In-Reply-To: <964E08E5FFA545B8BC577ECB988E46B3@EDavie>
References: <964E08E5FFA545B8BC577ECB988E46B3@EDavie>
Message-ID: <6872.18978.qm@web35202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Interesting timing on the email, especially since Safeway is into their 4th fundraiser of the year: Muscular Dystrophy.  Earlier this year it was Easter Seals, then Prostate Cancer Research, then Breast Cancer Research (or was it the American Breast Cancer Foundation?), and now it's for Muscular Dystrophy.

Ever since early this year when Safeway kicked off their yearly "would you like to round up your total to an even $xx for the Easter Seals Foundation?" drive that I've tried to NOT shop at Safeway if at all possible.  What's even more galling is after you enter your Safeway # or home phone number in the process to pay with debit, the touchpad screen displays a "would you like to donate?" screen.  It's a double charity request: first electronic and then orally by cashier.  And you can see many of the cashiers flinch a little when they ask because numerous customers get quite irate when asked to donate.

I'm guessing many of the charities make millions from Safeway, but I disagree with the program.  I don't shop @grocery stores with the intent of giving to charity.  I keep that separate.  I've written complaints each of the past 3 years to Safeway, to no avail.  And I didn't even get the obligatory PC form letter response.  Even though I spend roughly $1400/month for all grocery-type items, I'm not even a pebble in the ocean of Safeway wealth.  Since my email letters are not acknowledged, I'll continue to protest in the small venue afforded me: I'll reduce to a minimum my Safeway shopping.  

 
Allen Warren

From: Ed Davie <edavie at verizon.net>
To: "Grovenet, F.G." <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 3:02:49 PM
Subject: [Grovenet] Charities

I just received my most recent copy of the 
American Institute of Philanthropy Watchdog 
report.
You may all be familiar with this charity rating 
guide but ...

I couldn't help doing a little comparison 
shopping.
For example, out of 17 organizations under "Crime 
& Fire Prevention", 14 are rated "F" or poor!
Just a cursory look says they may spend as little 
as $2.00 for program out of every $100.00 raised 
in a worse case to possibly $30 in the best case.

Another really bad area is "Cancer".
Out of 39 organizations, 17 are rated "F".
Including for example:
    American Breast Cancer Foundation
    American Institute for Cancer Research
    Cancer Fund of America
    Cancer Recovery Foundation of America
    Etc. Etc.

If you aren't familiar with this publication check 
www.charitywatch.org.
or 773-529-2300. Published 3 times a year. A 
subscription costs $40.00 a year although I have 
always gotten it for $35.00.
Ed 
_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



      

From khourym at verizon.net  Mon Jul 27 17:27:47 2009
From: khourym at verizon.net (Martha Khoury)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 17:27:47 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Charities
In-Reply-To: <6872.18978.qm@web35202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <964E08E5FFA545B8BC577ECB988E46B3@EDavie>
	<6872.18978.qm@web35202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <822A8545-8497-4D9A-9082-A28620466A9D@verizon.net>

Allen -- Would you write a letter to the editor please. I've done my  
fair share of rabble rousing this year, but I wholeheartedly agree  
with you!

Safeway is getting kudos from these organizations by passing through  
their customers' donations. I prefer to donate to charities of my  
choice and I have strong negative feelings about Safeway every time I  
get asked to donate -- which as you say is twice each shopping trip.

I do shop there frequently because of their electronic scrip program  
which enables a portion of my purchases to go to the charity of MY  
choice.

--Martha Khoury

On Jul 27, 2009, at 5:08 PM, Allen Warren wrote:

> Interesting timing on the email, especially since Safeway is into  
> their 4th fundraiser of the year: Muscular Dystrophy.  Earlier this  
> year it was Easter Seals, then Prostate Cancer Research, then Breast  
> Cancer Research (or was it the American Breast Cancer Foundation?),  
> and now it's for Muscular Dystrophy.
>
> Ever since early this year when Safeway kicked off their yearly  
> "would you like to round up your total to an even $xx for the Easter  
> Seals Foundation?" drive that I've tried to NOT shop at Safeway if  
> at all possible.  What's even more galling is after you enter your  
> Safeway # or home phone number in the process to pay with debit, the  
> touchpad screen displays a "would you like to donate?" screen.  It's  
> a double charity request: first electronic and then orally by  
> cashier.  And you can see many of the cashiers flinch a little when  
> they ask because numerous customers get quite irate when asked to  
> donate.
>
> I'm guessing many of the charities make millions from Safeway, but I  
> disagree with the program.  I don't shop @grocery stores with the  
> intent of giving to charity.  I keep that separate.  I've written  
> complaints each of the past 3 years to Safeway, to no avail.  And I  
> didn't even get the obligatory PC form letter response.  Even though  
> I spend roughly $1400/month for all grocery-type items, I'm not even  
> a pebble in the ocean of Safeway wealth.  Since my email letters are  
> not acknowledged, I'll continue to protest in the small venue  
> afforded me: I'll reduce to a minimum my Safeway shopping.
>
>
> Allen Warren
>
> From: Ed Davie <edavie at verizon.net>
> To: "Grovenet, F.G." <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 3:02:49 PM
> Subject: [Grovenet] Charities
>
> I just received my most recent copy of the
> American Institute of Philanthropy Watchdog
> report.
> You may all be familiar with this charity rating
> guide but ...
>
> I couldn't help doing a little comparison
> shopping.
> For example, out of 17 organizations under "Crime
> & Fire Prevention", 14 are rated "F" or poor!
> Just a cursory look says they may spend as little
> as $2.00 for program out of every $100.00 raised
> in a worse case to possibly $30 in the best case.
>
> Another really bad area is "Cancer".
> Out of 39 organizations, 17 are rated "F".
> Including for example:
>    American Breast Cancer Foundation
>    American Institute for Cancer Research
>    Cancer Fund of America
>    Cancer Recovery Foundation of America
>    Etc. Etc.
>
> If you aren't familiar with this publication check
> www.charitywatch.org.
> or 773-529-2300. Published 3 times a year. A
> subscription costs $40.00 a year although I have
> always gotten it for $35.00.
> Ed
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From isis23ra at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 28 10:03:24 2009
From: isis23ra at yahoo.com (Alana Graham)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 10:03:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] Farmer's Market Cancelled Wed.
Message-ID: <503450.28696.qm@web55608.mail.re4.yahoo.com>


Just got a fax from the Chamber.  The Farmer's Market is cancelled tomorrow Wed. 7/29 because it will be too freaking' hot!  They will resume on First Wednesday on 8/5/09.

Y'all stay cool.  (I can say "y'all" 'cause my mom was from Tennessee.)

Alana



      

From allnutt at verizon.net  Tue Jul 28 12:49:15 2009
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 12:49:15 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Farmer's Market Cancelled Wed.
In-Reply-To: <503450.28696.qm@web55608.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <503450.28696.qm@web55608.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <39B2F428-5F82-4011-9DD9-509BE5FCD409@verizon.net>

Very wise indeed.

Katie

On Jul 28, 2009, at 10:03 AM, Alana Graham wrote:

>
> Just got a fax from the Chamber.  The Farmer's Market is cancelled  
> tomorrow Wed. 7/29 because it will be too freaking' hot!  They will  
> resume on First Wednesday on 8/5/09.
>
> Y'all stay cool.  (I can say "y'all" 'cause my mom was from  
> Tennessee.)
>
> Alana
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 28 12:58:20 2009
From: osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com (Allen Warren)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 12:58:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] Farmer's Market Cancelled Wed.
In-Reply-To: <39B2F428-5F82-4011-9DD9-509BE5FCD409@verizon.net>
References: <503450.28696.qm@web55608.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
	<39B2F428-5F82-4011-9DD9-509BE5FCD409@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <888549.24305.qm@web35203.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

and I'm hoping Hillsboro canceled tonight's market.

 
Allen Warren




________________________________
From: Katie Allnutt <allnutt at verizon.net>
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 12:49:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Farmer's Market Cancelled Wed.

Very wise indeed.

Katie

On Jul 28, 2009, at 10:03 AM, Alana Graham wrote:

>
> Just got a fax from the Chamber.  The Farmer's Market is cancelled  
> tomorrow Wed. 7/29 because it will be too freaking' hot!  They will  
> resume on First Wednesday on 8/5/09.
>
> Y'all stay cool.  (I can say "y'all" 'cause my mom was from  
> Tennessee.)
>
> Alana
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



      

From osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 28 13:49:56 2009
From: osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com (Allen Warren)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 13:49:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] Charities
In-Reply-To: <822A8545-8497-4D9A-9082-A28620466A9D@verizon.net>
References: <964E08E5FFA545B8BC577ECB988E46B3@EDavie>
	<6872.18978.qm@web35202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<822A8545-8497-4D9A-9082-A28620466A9D@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <948596.71125.qm@web35206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Martha, I will write a letter.  Won't probably get it in to be included in this week's edition, but I will submit one.

There was an article July of last year in the Oregonian's 'Complaint Desk' section concerning Safeway's "donation" program: http://blog.oregonlive.com/complaintdesk/2008/07/safeway_fundraising_need_chang.html.

 
Allen Warren



________________________________
From: Martha Khoury <khourym at verizon.net>
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 5:27:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Charities

Allen -- Would you write a letter to the editor please. I've done my  
fair share of rabble rousing this year, but I wholeheartedly agree  
with you!

Safeway is getting kudos from these organizations by passing through  
their customers' donations. I prefer to donate to charities of my  
choice and I have strong negative feelings about Safeway every time I  
get asked to donate -- which as you say is twice each shopping trip.

I do shop there frequently because of their electronic scrip program  
which enables a portion of my purchases to go to the charity of MY  
choice.

--Martha Khoury

On Jul 27, 2009, at 5:08 PM, Allen Warren wrote:

> Interesting timing on the email, especially since Safeway is into  
> their 4th fundraiser of the year: Muscular Dystrophy.  Earlier this  
> year it was Easter Seals, then Prostate Cancer Research, then Breast  
> Cancer Research (or was it the American Breast Cancer Foundation?),  
> and now it's for Muscular Dystrophy.
>
> Ever since early this year when Safeway kicked off their yearly  
> "would you like to round up your total to an even $xx for the Easter  
> Seals Foundation?" drive that I've tried to NOT shop at Safeway if  
> at all possible.  What's even more galling is after you enter your  
> Safeway # or home phone number in the process to pay with debit, the  
> touchpad screen displays a "would you like to donate?" screen.  It's  
> a double charity request: first electronic and then orally by  
> cashier.  And you can see many of the cashiers flinch a little when  
> they ask because numerous customers get quite irate when asked to  
> donate.
>
> I'm guessing many of the charities make millions from Safeway, but I  
> disagree with the program.  I don't shop @grocery stores with the  
> intent of giving to charity.  I keep that separate.  I've written  
> complaints each of the past 3 years to Safeway, to no avail.  And I  
> didn't even get the obligatory PC form letter response.  Even though  
> I spend roughly $1400/month for all grocery-type items, I'm not even  
> a pebble in the ocean of Safeway wealth.  Since my email letters are  
> not acknowledged, I'll continue to protest in the small venue  
> afforded me: I'll reduce to a minimum my Safeway shopping.
>
>
> Allen Warren
>
> From: Ed Davie <edavie at verizon.net>
> To: "Grovenet, F.G." <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 3:02:49 PM
> Subject: [Grovenet] Charities
>
> I just received my most recent copy of the
> American Institute of Philanthropy Watchdog
> report.
> You may all be familiar with this charity rating
> guide but ...
>
> I couldn't help doing a little comparison
> shopping.
> For example, out of 17 organizations under "Crime
> & Fire Prevention", 14 are rated "F" or poor!
> Just a cursory look says they may spend as little
> as $2.00 for program out of every $100.00 raised
> in a worse case to possibly $30 in the best case.
>
> Another really bad area is "Cancer".
> Out of 39 organizations, 17 are rated "F".
> Including for example:
>    American Breast Cancer Foundation
>    American Institute for Cancer Research
>    Cancer Fund of America
>    Cancer Recovery Foundation of America
>    Etc. Etc.
>
> If you aren't familiar with this publication check
> www.charitywatch.org.
> or 773-529-2300. Published 3 times a year. A
> subscription costs $40.00 a year although I have
> always gotten it for $35.00.
> Ed
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



      

From isis23ra at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 30 10:10:24 2009
From: isis23ra at yahoo.com (Alana Graham)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 10:10:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] Trip to India in Jan/Feb? Discuss 8/6/09, 5:15 PM
In-Reply-To: <619154.96829.qm@web84204.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <393236.97852.qm@web55601.mail.re4.yahoo.com>


This is to announce Pacific University's Center for Gender Equity's (CGE) Community trip to Southern India.  Every other year CGE sponsors a study-travel group to explore culture, society and gender in Madurai, India.  It is a wonderful opportunity to not only see, but to participate in an ancient and fascinating culture.  The group will stay at Lady Doak College, take overnight trips to nearby locations, and have the chance to interact with various communities through service projects.

The trip is planned for 2010: January 20th to February 7th approximately.  The dates can be shifted a bit depending on the needs of the participants.  The cost will be about $3000.00, and that includes airfare, room, board, instruction, local transportation, guides, and everything else except personal expenses.  We will have a firm dollar figure as soon as we know more about numbers of people planning to travel.

CGE has sponsored 5 such trips to this same location, and I can assure you, it is life-changing.

If you or anyone you know is interested, there will be an information meeting on Thursday, August 6th at 5:15 at the Abbott House on Pacific's campus at 2209 Cedar Street, Forest Grove.  If you are interested but cannot attend the meeting, please let me know and I will arrange to meet with you at another time.

Do feel free to invite anyone else who might be interested, and contact me if you would like more information before the meeting on August 6th.

Dr. Martha Rampton
Professor of History
Director-Center for Gender Equity
Pacific University
2043 College Way
Forest Grove, Oregon  97116
Phone: 503 352 2772
Fax:     503 352 3195
________________________________________





      

From rab at jurislex.com  Thu Jul 30 10:11:54 2009
From: rab at jurislex.com (Bob Browning)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 10:11:54 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] No. 3 Republican to back Sotomayor for high court -
	Yahoo! News
Message-ID: <4A71D45A.7060607@jurislex.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: /pipermail/attachments/20090730/14b34729/attachment.html 

From allnutt at verizon.net  Thu Jul 30 10:22:50 2009
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 10:22:50 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] No. 3 Republican to back Sotomayor for high court
	-	Yahoo! News
In-Reply-To: <4A71D45A.7060607@jurislex.com>
References: <4A71D45A.7060607@jurislex.com>
Message-ID: <C60E1932-26C2-48BB-BB25-CBACED91EB5B@verizon.net>

Funny.  As soon as I heard Lindsey say he would support her in  
committee the thought that popped into my head was that he was going  
to run for president.  I don't think he was solely targeting  
Hispanics though. He was targeting the independents as well who could  
see that she rules according to the law.

You have to be reasonable to reach the middle.

Katie



On Jul 30, 2009, at 10:11 AM, Bob Browning wrote:

> Well, now we know at least three Republicans who are going to run  
> for President in 2012 - Lindsey Graham, Lamar Alexander, and  
> Richard Lugar!! Got to hang on to those Hispanic votes, even if it  
> means losing the primary to the rabid Rs!!
>
> bob "yo digo 'Viva los Demecratos' " browning
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090730/ap_on_go_su_co/ 
> us_sotomayor_alexander
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From NoSpam03 at comcast.net  Thu Jul 30 10:23:43 2009
From: NoSpam03 at comcast.net (Steven)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 10:23:43 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] No. 3 Republican to back Sotomayor for high court
	-Yahoo! News
In-Reply-To: <4A71D45A.7060607@jurislex.com>
Message-ID: <FBEAKAJNIJPKEDCBPHFNOELMMHAA.NoSpam03@comcast.net>

?Est?n votando su mejor opini?n o como cucarachas del voto?
  -----Original Message-----
  From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com]On
Behalf Of Bob Browning
  Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:12 AM
  To: Grovenet
  Subject: [Grovenet] No. 3 Republican to back Sotomayor for high
court -Yahoo! News


  Well, now we know at least three Republicans who are going to run for
President in 2012 - Lindsey Graham, Lamar Alexander, and Richard Lugar!! Got
to hang on to those Hispanic votes, even if it means losing the primary to
the rabid Rs!!

  bob "yo digo 'Viva los Demecratos' " browning

  http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090730/ap_on_go_su_co/us_sotomayor_alexander



From osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 30 11:09:34 2009
From: osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com (Allen Warren)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 11:09:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] No. 3 Republican to back Sotomayor for high court -
	Yahoo! News
In-Reply-To: <4A71D45A.7060607@jurislex.com>
References: <4A71D45A.7060607@jurislex.com>
Message-ID: <200146.48107.qm@web35203.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

For a White House Release in late May: "Judge Sotomayor served 11 years on the Court of Appeals for the Second
Circuit, one of the most demanding circuits in the country, and has
handed down decisions on a range of complex legal and constitutional
issues. If confirmed, Sotomayor would bring more federal judicial
experience to the Supreme Court than any justice in 100 years, and more
overall judicial experience than anyone confirmed for the Court in the
past 70 years."

I understand and acknowledge that just because someone has lots of experience in a particular position doesn't automatically equate to the person providing the highest quality in work output.  Still, I have to believe Judge Sotomayor learned a few good things all those years on the bench.

 
Allen Warren



________________________________
From: Bob Browning <rab at jurislex.com>
To: Grovenet <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:11:54 AM
Subject: [Grovenet] No. 3 Republican to back Sotomayor for high court - Yahoo! News

Well, now we know at least three Republicans who are
going to run for President in 2012 - Lindsey Graham, Lamar Alexander,
and Richard Lugar!! Got to hang on to those Hispanic votes, even if it
means losing the primary to the rabid Rs!!

bob "yo digo 'Viva los Demecratos' " browning

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090730/ap_on_go_su_co/us_sotomayor_alexander


      

From rab at jurislex.com  Thu Jul 30 12:19:59 2009
From: rab at jurislex.com (Bob Browning)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 12:19:59 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] No. 3 Republican to back Sotomayor for high court
 -Yahoo! News
In-Reply-To: <FBEAKAJNIJPKEDCBPHFNOELMMHAA.NoSpam03@comcast.net>
References: <FBEAKAJNIJPKEDCBPHFNOELMMHAA.NoSpam03@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4A71F25F.7060506@jurislex.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: /pipermail/attachments/20090730/8e213c0b/attachment.html 

From khourym at verizon.net  Fri Jul 31 17:32:19 2009
From: khourym at verizon.net (Martha Khoury)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:32:19 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] computer repair needed
Message-ID: <FE9A2954-9630-4967-B90D-95C84D22C66A@verizon.net>

My other computer (PC) is making a strange noise and acting up. Whom  
should I call?

--Martha K.

From jawelch at coho.net  Fri Jul 31 17:56:55 2009
From: jawelch at coho.net (John  Welch)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:56:55 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] computer repair needed
In-Reply-To: <FE9A2954-9630-4967-B90D-95C84D22C66A@verizon.net>
References: <FE9A2954-9630-4967-B90D-95C84D22C66A@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <F2063C0E86694FFC945E34F7449405F1@welch>

We have had good luck calling Garry Poff (799-4695).  He is in Hillsboro and
used to, at least, make house calls.

John

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Martha Khoury
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 5:32 PM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: [Grovenet] computer repair needed

My other computer (PC) is making a strange noise and acting up. Whom  
should I call?

--Martha K.
_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From khourym at verizon.net  Fri Jul 31 19:06:10 2009
From: khourym at verizon.net (Martha Khoury)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 19:06:10 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] computer repair needed
In-Reply-To: <F2063C0E86694FFC945E34F7449405F1@welch>
References: <FE9A2954-9630-4967-B90D-95C84D22C66A@verizon.net>
	<F2063C0E86694FFC945E34F7449405F1@welch>
Message-ID: <B44D76EA-A0E4-429D-837A-CC7561B893D2@verizon.net>

Thank you! Garry is going to install a new hard drive tomorrow. What a  
relief! --Martha K.


On Jul 31, 2009, at 5:56 PM, John Welch wrote:

> We have had good luck calling Garry Poff (799-4695).  He is in  
> Hillsboro and
> used to, at least, make house calls.
>
> John
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com]  
> On
> Behalf Of Martha Khoury
> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 5:32 PM
> To: Forest Grove local interests list
> Subject: [Grovenet] computer repair needed
>
> My other computer (PC) is making a strange noise and acting up. Whom
> should I call?
>
> --Martha K.
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From jo.david at verizon.net  Fri Jul 31 21:07:13 2009
From: jo.david at verizon.net (David Morelli)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 21:07:13 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] what was the cause of the sirens?
Message-ID: <456376A5-76B7-4181-949C-C9063F880661@verizon.net>

This evening around 5 p.m. there were three power surges followed  
shortly by sirens running North.

Any idea what happened?

David

From edavie at verizon.net  Fri Jul 31 21:11:43 2009
From: edavie at verizon.net (Ed Davie)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 21:11:43 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] what was the cause of the sirens?
References: <456376A5-76B7-4181-949C-C9063F880661@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <FA5AF8C74E0643F382F6B72F1AB3B1A0@EDavie>

No noticeable surges here! (Forest Gail Heights)
Didn't happen to hear the sirens either.
Of course, we hear so many ....
Ed
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: David Morelli
  To: grovenet
  Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 9:07 PM
  Subject: [Grovenet] what was the cause of the 
sirens?


  This evening around 5 p.m. there were three 
power surges followed
  shortly by sirens running North.

  Any idea what happened?

  David
  _______________________________________________
  GroveNet mailing list
  GroveNet at rdrop.com
  http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

From chuck at grovenet.net  Fri Jul 31 20:25:10 2009
From: chuck at grovenet.net (Chuck)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 20:25:10 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] computer repair needed
In-Reply-To: <B44D76EA-A0E4-429D-837A-CC7561B893D2@verizon.net>
References: <FE9A2954-9630-4967-B90D-95C84D22C66A@verizon.net>
	<F2063C0E86694FFC945E34F7449405F1@welch>
	<B44D76EA-A0E4-429D-837A-CC7561B893D2@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <4FB25260-E81C-48DA-8829-970320BC01B8@grovenet.net>

Just so you all know, even though my shop is closed, I still do  
repairs on the side. Do to my work schedule I am limited to Mondays  
and Tuesdays only. If that works for you , give me a call. 503.359.8939

Chuck

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 31, 2009, at 7:06 PM, Martha Khoury <khourym at verizon.net> wrote:

> Thank you! Garry is going to install a new hard drive tomorrow. What a
> relief! --Martha K.
>
>
> On Jul 31, 2009, at 5:56 PM, John Welch wrote:
>
>> We have had good luck calling Garry Poff (799-4695).  He is in
>> Hillsboro and
>> used to, at least, make house calls.
>>
>> John
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com]
>> On
>> Behalf Of Martha Khoury
>> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 5:32 PM
>> To: Forest Grove local interests list
>> Subject: [Grovenet] computer repair needed
>>
>> My other computer (PC) is making a strange noise and acting up. Whom
>> should I call?
>>
>> --Martha K.
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

From obrzl at verizon.net  Fri Jul 31 22:48:25 2009
From: obrzl at verizon.net (mark oberzil)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 22:48:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] what was the cause of the sirens?
Message-ID: <25052.1892.qm@web84204.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

There was a city crew out that said a tree fell on Sunset (I think) and it took out the power lines.? Coming back into town about 8:30 three or four police vehicles were headed east past McM's in a hurry; don't know what that was.? Excitement rides!

--- On Sat, 8/1/09, Ed Davie <edavie at verizon.net> wrote:


From: Ed Davie <edavie at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] what was the cause of the sirens?
To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 4:11 AM


No noticeable surges here! (Forest Gail Heights)
Didn't happen to hear the sirens either.
Of course, we hear so many ....
Ed
? ----- Original Message ----- 
? From: David Morelli
? To: grovenet
? Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 9:07 PM
? Subject: [Grovenet] what was the cause of the 
sirens?


? This evening around 5 p.m. there were three 
power surges followed
? shortly by sirens running North.

? Any idea what happened?

? David
? _______________________________________________
? GroveNet mailing list
? GroveNet at rdrop.com
? http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

From NoSpam03 at comcast.net  Fri Jul 31 23:03:57 2009
From: NoSpam03 at comcast.net (Steven)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 23:03:57 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] what was the cause of the sirens?
In-Reply-To: <25052.1892.qm@web84204.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FBEAKAJNIJPKEDCBPHFNKENAMHAA.NoSpam03@comcast.net>

What happened to the Fire Log?
http://mail.wccca.com/48hrFireLog/
Seems to be quite private these days.