[Grovenet] Lies, damned lies, and evangelicals . . .

[Steve Jerrett]

You know, we the *people,* adults who should all have the same civil rights. 
If homosexual couples wish to be tied together in a civil arrangement and 
receive equal legal rights, (and by the way, some churches *will* perform a 
spiritual ceremony), it makes no sense to me that some people still bring up 
animals, etc.!! Talk about absolutely useless objections!

Geri,

Just homosexuals?

If/when  homosexuals receive rights, will they be on the inside calling the 
excluded one's objections useless? Is that any different than heterosexuals 
now calling homosexual's objections useless?

Why should it be based on sexuality? Why not two friends that love each 
other but are not sexual?

When non-sexual couples demand equal rights, will hetero/homo couples be 
required to prove a sexual relationship to qualify? Will a sworn statement 
suffice?

Steve



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Geri" <g-g-steele at comcast.net>
To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Lies, damned lies, and evangelicals . . .


> Folks, we're talking human beings here. You know, we the *people,* adults 
> who should all have the same civil rights. If homosexual couples wish to 
> be tied together in a civil arrangement and receive equal legal rights, 
> (and by the way, some churches *will* perform a spiritual ceremony), it 
> makes no sense to me that some people still bring up animals, etc.!! Talk 
> about absolutely useless objections!
>
> Judge Browning, I like your idea about all those hugs.
>
> Geri
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Steve Jerrett" <stevedj at teleport.com>
> To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 2:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Lies, damned lies, and evangelicals . . .
>
>
>> Bob,
>>
>> Describing marriage as a state sponsored, non-spiritual (religious or 
>> otherwise) union leaves it as nothing but a "business" arrangement, 
>> solely for the purpose of obtaining equal legal rights. I'm O.K with that 
>> as long as everyone gets to participate- friend to friend, sibling to 
>> sibling, parent to sibling, etc. If we don't inlcude everyone, 
>> discrimination will continue.
>>
>> I'm not quite ready for human to pet, but I'm sure it's only a matter of 
>> time.
>>
>> Steve
>>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>>  From: Bob Browning
>>  To: Forest Grove local interests list
>>  Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 2:09 PM
>>  Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Lies, damned lies, and evangelicals . . .
>>
>>
>>  Carol - I'm not quite so flip as Jim Katen, but I find it really hard to 
>> believe that the State has such an interest in marriage as between a man 
>> and a woman for the protection of the family given the huge number of 
>> divorces and of dysfunctional families of which I know. Also, I 
>> personally know several families which have gay parents and very well 
>> adjusted children. It seems to me that many of the arguments now being 
>> used against gay marriage are no different than those put forward to 
>> adopt miscegenation laws and to prevent blacks and gays from adopting 
>> white children.
>>
>>  I chalk it all up to the inability of some people to think outside the 
>> box, an inability to realize that they may have been lied to by their 
>> parents and religious leaders as to the true nature of the world. How 
>> else can one explain the high percentage of Americans who reject the age 
>> of the Earth and the workings of evolution!! It's almost Aristotelean, 
>> the ability to hold a belief in the face of contrary evidence immediately 
>> before one's own eyes. I believe that is the only explanation for how 
>> Dobson can remain so ignorant of the true statistics and yet still spout 
>> falsehoods and misstatements (which, the last time I looked, should also 
>> be one of the ten commandments, but somehow didn't make it in!!).
>>
>>  Which, of course, brings us to the one and only solution - remove all 
>> references to marriage from the statutes, give the rights now conferred 
>> upon "married" people to those who have committed to each other through a 
>> civil ceremony which must be performed by a magistrate (municipal judge, 
>> justice of the peace, or state court judge), take away the power of any 
>> others to perform the civil ceremony (and that includes all the members 
>> of the Reverend Kirby Hensley's Universal Life Church!!), and leave 
>> marriage to the church people who want to have a spiritual joining. That 
>> way, each group can discriminate all it wants, but no one is subject to 
>> legal disability on account of (in the eyes of some) spiritual 
>> shortcoming.
>>
>>  Just my $0.02 worth!!
>>
>>  bob "everybody needs 144 hugs a day; it's just that most of us are about 
>> 143 short" browning
>>  ++++++++++++++++++++
>>  Jim Katen wrote:
>> I guess infertile atheists don't count for much in your world view.
>>
>> What a condescending attitude.
>>
>> - Jim Katen
>>
>>   _____
>>
>> On Behalf Of Carol Morgan
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 12:14 PM
>> To: Forest Grove local interests list
>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Lies, damned lies, and evangelicals . . .
>>
>> Marriage has traditionally been to covenant before god and legitimize
>> offspring.
>>
>> If it is just who you want to have a nice little committment ceremony 
>> with,
>> it could be anything.
>>
>> ------ Original Message ------ 
>> Received: 12:08 PM PDT, 05/13/2009
>> From: "Geri" <g-g-steele at comcast.net>
>> To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Lies, damned lies, and evangelicals . . .
>>
>> Sorry, Carol, not understanding your comment ... ?
>>
>> Geri
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: Carol Morgan
>> To: Forest Grove local interests list
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 11:45 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Lies, damned lies, and evangelicals . . .
>>
>> The relationship is that if men just happen to like men boys or multiple
>> women, what's the difference?
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Geri" <g-g-steele at comcast.net>
>> To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 11:00 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Lies, damned lies, and evangelicals . . .
>>  Nicely written by Brown ...
>>
>> <snip>
>>
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