[Grovenet] Lies, damned lies, and evangelicals . . .

Wed May 13 18:01:32 PDT 2009

The reason I was talking about gays/lesbians, is because that is
the subject. No other adult group of American citizens is excluded
from legally marrying. It is legal for heterosexual adults to marry -- 
doesn't matter if they're just friends, convicts, con artists, or fine
upstanding citizens!

Geri

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Jerrett" <stevedj at teleport.com>
To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Lies, damned lies, and evangelicals . . .

> You know, we the *people,* adults who should all have the same civil rights. 
> If homosexual couples wish to be tied together in a civil arrangement and 
> receive equal legal rights, (and by the way, some churches *will* perform a 
> spiritual ceremony), it makes no sense to me that some people still bring up 
> animals, etc.!! Talk about absolutely useless objections!
> 
> Geri,
> 
> Just homosexuals?
> 
> If/when  homosexuals receive rights, will they be on the inside calling the 
> excluded one's objections useless? Is that any different than heterosexuals 
> now calling homosexual's objections useless?
> 
> Why should it be based on sexuality? Why not two friends that love each 
> other but are not sexual?
> 
> When non-sexual couples demand equal rights, will hetero/homo couples be 
> required to prove a sexual relationship to qualify? Will a sworn statement 
> suffice?
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Geri" <g-g-steele at comcast.net>
> To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 4:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Lies, damned lies, and evangelicals . . .
> 
> 
>> Folks, we're talking human beings here. You know, we the *people,* adults 
>> who should all have the same civil rights. If homosexual couples wish to 
>> be tied together in a civil arrangement and receive equal legal rights, 
>> (and by the way, some churches *will* perform a spiritual ceremony), it 
>> makes no sense to me that some people still bring up animals, etc.!! Talk 
>> about absolutely useless objections!
>>
>> Judge Browning, I like your idea about all those hugs.
>>
>> Geri
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Steve Jerrett" <stevedj at teleport.com>
>> To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 2:25 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Lies, damned lies, and evangelicals . . .
>>
>>
>>> Bob,
>>>
>>> Describing marriage as a state sponsored, non-spiritual (religious or 
>>> otherwise) union leaves it as nothing but a "business" arrangement, 
>>> solely for the purpose of obtaining equal legal rights. I'm O.K with that 
>>> as long as everyone gets to participate- friend to friend, sibling to 
>>> sibling, parent to sibling, etc. If we don't inlcude everyone, 
>>> discrimination will continue.
>>>
>>> I'm not quite ready for human to pet, but I'm sure it's only a matter of 
>>> time.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>  From: Bob Browning
>>>  To: Forest Grove local interests list
>>>  Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 2:09 PM
>>>  Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Lies, damned lies, and evangelicals . . .
>>>
>>>
>>>  Carol - I'm not quite so flip as Jim Katen, but I find it really hard to 
>>> believe that the State has such an interest in marriage as between a man 
>>> and a woman for the protection of the family given the huge number of 
>>> divorces and of dysfunctional families of which I know. Also, I 
>>> personally know several families which have gay parents and very well 
>>> adjusted children. It seems to me that many of the arguments now being 
>>> used against gay marriage are no different than those put forward to 
>>> adopt miscegenation laws and to prevent blacks and gays from adopting 
>>> white children.
>>>
>>>  I chalk it all up to the inability of some people to think outside the 
>>> box, an inability to realize that they may have been lied to by their 
>>> parents and religious leaders as to the true nature of the world. How 
>>> else can one explain the high percentage of Americans who reject the age 
>>> of the Earth and the workings of evolution!! It's almost Aristotelean, 
>>> the ability to hold a belief in the face of contrary evidence immediately 
>>> before one's own eyes. I believe that is the only explanation for how 
>>> Dobson can remain so ignorant of the true statistics and yet still spout 
>>> falsehoods and misstatements (which, the last time I looked, should also 
>>> be one of the ten commandments, but somehow didn't make it in!!).
>>>
>>>  Which, of course, brings us to the one and only solution - remove all 
>>> references to marriage from the statutes, give the rights now conferred 
>>> upon "married" people to those who have committed to each other through a 
>>> civil ceremony which must be performed by a magistrate (municipal judge, 
>>> justice of the peace, or state court judge), take away the power of any 
>>> others to perform the civil ceremony (and that includes all the members 
>>> of the Reverend Kirby Hensley's Universal Life Church!!), and leave 
>>> marriage to the church people who want to have a spiritual joining. That 
>>> way, each group can discriminate all it wants, but no one is subject to 
>>> legal disability on account of (in the eyes of some) spiritual 
>>> shortcoming.
>>>
>>>  Just my $0.02 worth!!
>>>
>>>  bob "everybody needs 144 hugs a day; it's just that most of us are about 
>>> 143 short" browning
>>>  ++++++++++++++++++++
>>>  Jim Katen wrote:
>>> I guess infertile atheists don't count for much in your world view.
>>>
>>> What a condescending attitude.
>>>
>>> - Jim Katen
>>>
>>>   _____
>>>
>>> On Behalf Of Carol Morgan
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 12:14 PM
>>> To: Forest Grove local interests list
>>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Lies, damned lies, and evangelicals . . .
>>>
>>> Marriage has traditionally been to covenant before god and legitimize
>>> offspring.
>>>
>>> If it is just who you want to have a nice little committment ceremony 
>>> with,
>>> it could be anything.
>>>
>>> ------ Original Message ------ 
>>> Received: 12:08 PM PDT, 05/13/2009
>>> From: "Geri" <g-g-steele at comcast.net>
>>> To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Lies, damned lies, and evangelicals . . .
>>>
>>> Sorry, Carol, not understanding your comment ... ?
>>>
>>> Geri
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: Carol Morgan
>>> To: Forest Grove local interests list
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 11:45 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Lies, damned lies, and evangelicals . . .
>>>
>>> The relationship is that if men just happen to like men boys or multiple
>>> women, what's the difference?
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Geri" <g-g-steele at comcast.net>
>>> To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 11:00 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Lies, damned lies, and evangelicals . . .
>>>  Nicely written by Brown ...
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
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