From redhead854 at msn.com  Sun Nov  1 01:50:52 2009
From: redhead854 at msn.com (Holly Di)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 01:50:52 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] It rained and the flag shrunk? no, really, its smaller,
 what happened.
Message-ID: <BAY108-W24FCAC7349C62AC45CBC4A87B40@phx.gbl>




I just noticed tonight, while I was out with my family trick or treating.  The flag is smaller  I havent heard why?  It just occurred to me
that I might have missed an article in the News Times.

Can someone enlighten me, I am so curious

Thankyou

Holly 


 		 	   		  

From edavie at verizon.net  Sun Nov  1 06:19:50 2009
From: edavie at verizon.net (Ed Davie)
Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2009 06:19:50 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] It rained and the flag shrunk? no, really,
 its smaller, what happened.
References: <BAY108-W24FCAC7349C62AC45CBC4A87B40@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <0542EC4CC7B94BA09AA602E29250A400@EdsPortable>

The foul weather flag!
Ed


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Holly Di" <redhead854 at msn.com>
To: <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 1:50 AM
Subject: [Grovenet] It rained and the flag shrunk? no, really, its smaller, 
what happened.


>
>
>
> I just noticed tonight, while I was out with my family trick or treating. 
> The flag is smaller  I havent heard why?  It just occurred to me
> that I might have missed an article in the News Times.
>
> Can someone enlighten me, I am so curious
>
> Thankyou
>
> Holly
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> 



From smithsmith at gmail.com  Sun Nov  1 07:30:41 2009
From: smithsmith at gmail.com (b Smith)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 07:30:41 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] It rained and the flag shrunk? no, really,
	its 	smaller, what happened.
In-Reply-To: <BAY108-W24FCAC7349C62AC45CBC4A87B40@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY108-W24FCAC7349C62AC45CBC4A87B40@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <7eaadfd10911010730r5f4caab3r80ff9c96a1de02c9@mail.gmail.com>

I think there are several sizes of big flags.   I am guessing this may be
the winter one.

On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 1:50 AM, Holly Di <redhead854 at msn.com> wrote:

>
>
>
> I just noticed tonight, while I was out with my family trick or treating.
>  The flag is smaller  I havent heard why?  It just occurred to me
> that I might have missed an article in the News Times.
>
> Can someone enlighten me, I am so curious
>
> Thankyou
>
> Holly
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>

From khourym at verizon.net  Sun Nov  1 07:48:56 2009
From: khourym at verizon.net (Martha Khoury)
Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2009 07:48:56 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] Ideas for Leftover Halloween Candy
Message-ID: <44D91482-421B-4233-B3AD-F32406CE85D6@verizon.net>

If the bag is unopened and you can find your receipt -- take it back  
to the store.

If the bag is opened, but not tossed, staple it shut and save for  
stocking stuffers/gift baggies.

If there is lots of remaining candy in the bowl -- ship it off in a  
care package to a college student or take it to the office.





From michaelkinkade at gmail.com  Sun Nov  1 07:52:18 2009
From: michaelkinkade at gmail.com (michaelkinkade at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 15:52:18 +0000
Subject: [Grovenet] It rained and the flag shrunk? no, really,
	its 	smaller, what happened.
Message-ID: <765948245-1257090740-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2045277748-@bda324.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

The large flags needed to go in for repair, and we are thinking of flying the smaller flag during the winter months. 

------Original Message------
From: b Smith
Sender: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com
To: Forest Grove local interests list
ReplyTo: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] It rained and the flag shrunk? no, really,its 	smaller, what happened.
Sent: Nov 1, 2009 07:30

I think there are several sizes of big flags.   I am guessing this may be
the winter one.

On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 1:50 AM, Holly Di <redhead854 at msn.com> wrote:

>
>
>
> I just noticed tonight, while I was out with my family trick or treating.
>  The flag is smaller  I havent heard why?  It just occurred to me
> that I might have missed an article in the News Times.
>
> Can someone enlighten me, I am so curious
>
> Thankyou
>
> Holly
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry


From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Sun Nov  1 09:51:22 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 09:51:22 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] A Hosstyle Good Day For You
Message-ID: <2418-4AEDCA9A-2059@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>

Hi This Greeting Is Just For You - It Is Sunday :-
http://exclusives.250free.com/html3/sunday.html

by the bye ... Mr Ed....
I saw that you were up at 06:19 .. what did you do.... did you set you
clock back?

Sept Rain; 1.75 inches .. give or take
Oct   ......;  5.75  "
Total so far this season is  7.50 which is far behind last year at this
time at 12 inches give or take....

I just had a cell phone conversation with a school mate in Morro Bay,
and he says at 0900 this am it was about 80* so he was going kayaking at
Avala Beach...

So cold here I had to start the wood-stove up...

~A~ :?)

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091101/0817af0c/attachment.html 

From whatsupy2k at yahoo.com  Sun Nov  1 10:39:30 2009
From: whatsupy2k at yahoo.com (Vickie Madeoneup)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 10:39:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Grovenet] It rained and the flag shrunk? no, really,
	its smaller, what happened.
In-Reply-To: <BAY108-W24FCAC7349C62AC45CBC4A87B40@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY108-W24FCAC7349C62AC45CBC4A87B40@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <159831.85440.qm@web112417.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

I just want to add that I really like the huge flag

it makes an excellent landmark and always looks majestic.

Vickie





________________________________
From: Holly Di <redhead854 at msn.com>
To: grovenet at rdrop.com
Sent: Sun, November 1, 2009 1:50:52 AM
Subject: [Grovenet] It rained and the flag shrunk? no, really, its smaller, what happened.




I just noticed tonight, while I was out with my family trick or treating.  The flag is smaller  I havent heard why?  It just occurred to me
that I might have missed an article in the News Times.

Can someone enlighten me, I am so curious

Thankyou

Holly 


                          
_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



      

From allnutt at verizon.net  Sun Nov  1 12:19:13 2009
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2009 12:19:13 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] It rained and the flag shrunk? no, really,
 its smaller, what happened.
In-Reply-To: <159831.85440.qm@web112417.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <BAY108-W24FCAC7349C62AC45CBC4A87B40@phx.gbl>
	<159831.85440.qm@web112417.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <524FDFED-9ED1-470E-AF14-7054E6DF0395@verizon.net>

When the big flag is up and it is a clear day you can see it as you  
pass Winco going up the hill as you travel west out of Hillsboro.  It  
is very impressive from that far away. But I still don't like to  
drive under it when the wind blows the big one over the lanes of  
traffic.
I like the small one. It seems like it packs a concise patriotic  
punch and as they say, good things come in small packages.

Katie


On Nov 1, 2009, at 10:39 AM, Vickie Madeoneup wrote:

> I just want to add that I really like the huge flag
>
> it makes an excellent landmark and always looks majestic.
>
> Vickie
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Holly Di <redhead854 at msn.com>
> To: grovenet at rdrop.com
> Sent: Sun, November 1, 2009 1:50:52 AM
> Subject: [Grovenet] It rained and the flag shrunk? no, really, its  
> smaller, what happened.
>
>
>
>
> I just noticed tonight, while I was out with my family trick or  
> treating.  The flag is smaller  I havent heard why?  It just  
> occurred to me
> that I might have missed an article in the News Times.
>
> Can someone enlighten me, I am so curious
>
> Thankyou
>
> Holly
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From jo.david at verizon.net  Sun Nov  1 16:14:20 2009
From: jo.david at verizon.net (David Morelli)
Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2009 16:14:20 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] It rained and the flag shrunk? no, really,
 its 	smaller, what happened.
In-Reply-To: <765948245-1257090740-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2045277748-@bda324.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <765948245-1257090740-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2045277748-@bda324.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <02DBB0B0-0D78-4861-B6CA-058AF4DAFDF4@verizon.net>

The flag appears to be more than twice as long as it is wide.
The American Legion indicates that the ration of length to width is  
1.9:1
http://www.legion.org/national/americanflag/flagcode


If it is in for repair, can the length be checked?

David

On Nov 1, 2009, at 7:52 AM, michaelkinkade at gmail.com wrote:

> The large flags needed to go in for repair, and we are thinking of  
> flying the smaller flag during the winter months.
>
> ------Original Message------
> From: b Smith
> Sender: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com
> To: Forest Grove local interests list
> ReplyTo: Forest Grove local interests list
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] It rained and the flag shrunk? no,  
> really,its 	smaller, what happened.
> Sent: Nov 1, 2009 07:30
>
> I think there are several sizes of big flags.   I am guessing this  
> may be
> the winter one.
>
> On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 1:50 AM, Holly Di <redhead854 at msn.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> I just noticed tonight, while I was out with my family trick or  
>> treating.
>>  The flag is smaller  I havent heard why?  It just occurred to me
>> that I might have missed an article in the News Times.
>>
>> Can someone enlighten me, I am so curious
>>
>> Thankyou
>>
>> Holly
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com  Sun Nov  1 16:42:12 2009
From: osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com (Allen Warren)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 16:42:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Grovenet] It rained and the flag shrunk? no, really,
	its  smaller, what happened.
In-Reply-To: <02DBB0B0-0D78-4861-B6CA-058AF4DAFDF4@verizon.net>
References: <765948245-1257090740-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2045277748-@bda324.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<02DBB0B0-0D78-4861-B6CA-058AF4DAFDF4@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <773693.60881.qm@web112108.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Is there a federal requirement for the ratio?  If not, then measuring it is wasted effort.

 
Allen Warren




________________________________
From: David Morelli <jo.david at verizon.net>
To: michaelkinkade at gmail.com; Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Sun, November 1, 2009 4:14:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] It rained and the flag shrunk? no, really, its  smaller, what happened.

The flag appears to be more than twice as long as it is wide.
The American Legion indicates that the ration of length to width is  
1.9:1
http://www.legion.org/national/americanflag/flagcode


If it is in for repair, can the length be checked?

David

On Nov 1, 2009, at 7:52 AM, michaelkinkade at gmail.com wrote:

> The large flags needed to go in for repair, and we are thinking of  
> flying the smaller flag during the winter months.
>
> ------Original Message------
> From: b Smith
> Sender: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com
> To: Forest Grove local interests list
> ReplyTo: Forest Grove local interests list
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] It rained and the flag shrunk? no,  
> really,its     smaller, what happened.
> Sent: Nov 1, 2009 07:30
>
> I think there are several sizes of big flags.   I am guessing this  
> may be
> the winter one.
>
> On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 1:50 AM, Holly Di <redhead854 at msn.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> I just noticed tonight, while I was out with my family trick or  
>> treating.
>>  The flag is smaller  I havent heard why?  It just occurred to me
>> that I might have missed an article in the News Times.
>>
>> Can someone enlighten me, I am so curious
>>
>> Thankyou
>>
>> Holly
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



      

From jo.david at verizon.net  Sun Nov  1 16:50:40 2009
From: jo.david at verizon.net (David Morelli)
Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2009 16:50:40 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] It rained and the flag shrunk? no, really,
 its  smaller, what happened.
In-Reply-To: <773693.60881.qm@web112108.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <765948245-1257090740-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2045277748-@bda324.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<02DBB0B0-0D78-4861-B6CA-058AF4DAFDF4@verizon.net>
	<773693.60881.qm@web112108.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1BEFCBA1-6C96-4646-9585-430086BF003D@verizon.net>

Executive Order No. 10834
August 24, 1959

On Nov 1, 2009, at 4:42 PM, Allen Warren wrote:

> Is there a federal requirement for the ratio?  If not, then  
> measuring it is wasted effort.
>
>
> Allen Warren

From michaelkinkade at gmail.com  Sun Nov  1 16:54:18 2009
From: michaelkinkade at gmail.com (Michael Kinkade)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 16:54:18 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] It rained and the flag shrunk? no, really,
	its 	smaller, what happened.
In-Reply-To: <1BEFCBA1-6C96-4646-9585-430086BF003D@verizon.net>
References: <765948245-1257090740-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2045277748-@bda324.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<02DBB0B0-0D78-4861-B6CA-058AF4DAFDF4@verizon.net>
	<773693.60881.qm@web112108.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<1BEFCBA1-6C96-4646-9585-430086BF003D@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <cd3cc5110911011654t5161b380w45fbae037f45cdb5@mail.gmail.com>

Specifications
USflag.org is a good reference.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_the_United_States_specification.svg>

The basic design of the current flag is specified by 4
U.S.C.<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_4_of_the_United_States_Code>
 ? 1 <http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/4/1.html>; 4
U.S.C.<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_4_of_the_United_States_Code>
 ? 2 <http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/4/2.html> outlines the addition of
new stars to represent new states. The
specification<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_the_United_States_specification.jpg>gives
the following values:

   - Hoist (width) of the flag: A = 1.0
   - Fly (length) of the flag: B =
1.9[3]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_United_States#cite_note-2>
   - Hoist (width) of the Union: C = 0.5385 (A x 7/13, spanning seven
   stripes)
   - Fly (length) of the Union: D = 0.76 (B ? 2/5, two fifths of the flag
   length)
   - E = F = 0.0538 (C/10, One tenth the height of the field of Stars)
   - G = H = 0.0633 (D/12, One twelfth the width of the field of Stars)
   - Diameter of star: K = 0.0616
   - Width of stripe: L = 0.0769 (A/13, One thirteenth of the flag width)

These specifications are contained in an executive
order<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_order_%28United_States%29>which,
strictly speaking, governs only flags made for or by the U.S. federal
government.[4]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_United_States#cite_note-3>In
practice, however, most U.S. national flags available for sale to the
public have a different length-to-width ratio; common sizes are 2 x 3 ft. or
4 x 6 ft. (flag ratio 1.5), 2.5 x 4 ft. or 5 x 8 ft. (1.6), or 3 x 5 ft. or
6 x 10 ft. (1.667). Even flags flown over the U.S. Capitol for sale to the
public through Representatives or Senators are provided in these
sizes.[5]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_United_States#cite_note-4>Flags
that are made to the prescribed 1.9 ratio are often referred to as
"G-spec" (for "government specification") flags.


On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 4:50 PM, David Morelli <jo.david at verizon.net> wrote:

> Executive Order No. 10834
> August 24, 1959
>
> On Nov 1, 2009, at 4:42 PM, Allen Warren wrote:
>
> > Is there a federal requirement for the ratio?  If not, then
> > measuring it is wasted effort.
> >
> >
> > Allen Warren
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>

From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Sun Nov  1 17:16:07 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 17:16:07 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] was board again today so....
Message-ID: <6083-4AEE32D7-4092@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>

http://tinyurl.com/yhflsa8


From osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com  Sun Nov  1 21:21:24 2009
From: osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com (Allen Warren)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 21:21:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Grovenet] It rained and the flag shrunk? no, really,
	its  smaller, what happened.
In-Reply-To: <cd3cc5110911011654t5161b380w45fbae037f45cdb5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <765948245-1257090740-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2045277748-@bda324.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<02DBB0B0-0D78-4861-B6CA-058AF4DAFDF4@verizon.net>
	<773693.60881.qm@web112108.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<1BEFCBA1-6C96-4646-9585-430086BF003D@verizon.net>
	<cd3cc5110911011654t5161b380w45fbae037f45cdb5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <842367.90476.qm@web112102.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Even though the specs are contained in an executive order, per what Michael provided below, the exec order, "strictly speaking, governs only flags made for or by the US Federal Government".  I would interpret this to mean there is no federally required size ratio for the flags flown on the flag pole we're discussing.

 
Allen Warren

From: Michael Kinkade <michaelkinkade at gmail.com>

To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Sun, November 1, 2009 4:54:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] It rained and the flag shrunk? no, really, its  smaller, what happened.

Specifications
USflag.org is a good reference.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_the_United_States_specification.svg>

The basic design of the current flag is specified by 4
U.S.C.<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_4_of_the_United_States_Code>
? 1 <http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/4/1.html>; 4
U.S.C.<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_4_of_the_United_States_Code>
? 2 <http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/4/2.html> outlines the addition of
new stars to represent new states. The
specification<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_the_United_States_specification.jpg>gives
the following values:

   - Hoist (width) of the flag: A = 1.0
   - Fly (length) of the flag: B =
1.9[3]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_United_States#cite_note-2>
   - Hoist (width) of the Union: C = 0.5385 (A x 7/13, spanning seven
   stripes)
   - Fly (length) of the Union: D = 0.76 (B ? 2/5, two fifths of the flag
   length)
   - E = F = 0.0538 (C/10, One tenth the height of the field of Stars)
   - G = H = 0.0633 (D/12, One twelfth the width of the field of Stars)
   - Diameter of star: K = 0.0616
   - Width of stripe: L = 0.0769 (A/13, One thirteenth of the flag width)

These specifications are contained in an executive
order<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_order_%28United_States%29>which,
strictly speaking, governs only flags made for or by the U.S. federal
government.[4]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_United_States#cite_note-3>In
practice, however, most U.S. national flags available for sale to the
public have a different length-to-width ratio; common sizes are 2 x 3 ft. or
4 x 6 ft. (flag ratio 1.5), 2.5 x 4 ft. or 5 x 8 ft. (1.6), or 3 x 5 ft. or
6 x 10 ft. (1.667). Even flags flown over the U.S. Capitol for sale to the
public through Representatives or Senators are provided in these
sizes.[5]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_United_States#cite_note-4>Flags
that are made to the prescribed 1.9 ratio are often referred to as
"G-spec" (for "government specification") flags.


On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 4:50 PM, David Morelli <jo.david at verizon.net> wrote:

> Executive Order No. 10834
> August 24, 1959
>
> On Nov 1, 2009, at 4:42 PM, Allen Warren wrote:
>
> > Is there a federal requirement for the ratio?  If not, then
> > measuring it is wasted effort.
> >
> >
> > Allen Warren
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



      

From jo.david at verizon.net  Mon Nov  2 00:37:59 2009
From: jo.david at verizon.net (David Morelli)
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 00:37:59 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] It rained and the flag shrunk? no, really,
 its  smaller, what happened.
In-Reply-To: <842367.90476.qm@web112102.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <765948245-1257090740-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2045277748-@bda324.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<02DBB0B0-0D78-4861-B6CA-058AF4DAFDF4@verizon.net>
	<773693.60881.qm@web112108.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<1BEFCBA1-6C96-4646-9585-430086BF003D@verizon.net>
	<cd3cc5110911011654t5161b380w45fbae037f45cdb5@mail.gmail.com>
	<842367.90476.qm@web112102.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <108125DC-DC96-4CB4-9F52-786CD6C998AF@verizon.net>

Perhaps not, but would it "fly" better?

David

On Nov 1, 2009, at 9:21 PM, Allen Warren wrote:

> Even though the specs are contained in an executive order, per what  
> Michael provided below, the exec order, "strictly speaking, governs  
> only flags made for or by the US Federal Government".  I would  
> interpret this to mean there is no federally required size ratio  
> for the flags flown on the flag pole we're discussing.
>
>
> Allen Warren

From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Mon Nov  2 07:52:04 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 07:52:04 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] A Hosstyle Good Morning
Message-ID: <6087-4AEF0024-2161@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>

A Hosstyle Good Morning...
What else would you expect, after having to build a fire in the wood
stove? No frezzze, only a REAL COLD 36*  I know the banner does not
agree with me, but it comes from the Hillsberito Air-Port in the
Flat-Lands

Hi This Greeting Is Just For You - Monday Morning... :-
http://exclusives.250free.com/html2/monmorngarfield.html

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From isis23ra at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  2 09:17:37 2009
From: isis23ra at yahoo.com (Alana Graham)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 09:17:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Grovenet] Need truck for tomorrow, 11/3, 9:30 AM
In-Reply-To: <108125DC-DC96-4CB4-9F52-786CD6C998AF@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <511701.43200.qm@web55608.mail.re4.yahoo.com>



Dear All,
?
Anyone out there have a truck and willing to be at Henningsen Cold Storage Co. 4124 24th Avenue, Forest Grove tomorrow, Tues. 11/3 at 9:30 AM?? 
?
The Friends of The Forest Grove Library begin our schlepping books and setting up for the Forest Grove Library's Used booksale tomorrow.? We need one or more persons over at Henningsen's 9:30 AM tomorrow.? 
?
Henningsen's has the books on pallets so they just slide into your truck - YOU WILL NOT HAVE TO LIFT ANYTHING - we will have helpers to take the books off the truck back at the library.
?
Let me know if you can help!? Thanks, Alana
?


      

From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Mon Nov  2 09:25:21 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 09:25:21 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] USS New York (LPD 21) | The Official Website.
	Commissioning Event	Information.
Message-ID: <2418-4AEF1601-2813@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>

It is times like this that makes me very patriotic and proud to be an
American Vet.   If I could .. I would be there for the Commissioning, so
I guess I'll just donate what I can...
I saw it on the morning satellite newsfrom New York a little while
ago....

Boy-O-Boy what an Impressive Sight.
It even makes for Few Hosstyle Tears.

http://www.ussny.org/

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http://www.ussny.org/

From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Mon Nov  2 09:31:40 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 09:31:40 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] Need truck for tomorrow, 11/3, 9:30 AM
In-Reply-To: Alana Graham <isis23ra@yahoo.com>'s message of Mon, 2 Nov 2009
	09:17:37 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <2423-4AEF177C-503@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>

How big of one do you need? I've a ford el ranger half ton ... if this
will do,  let me know.


From isis23ra at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  2 14:36:03 2009
From: isis23ra at yahoo.com (Alana Graham)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 14:36:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Grovenet] Book sale hours starts Mon. 11/9/09
In-Reply-To: <2423-4AEF177C-503@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>
Message-ID: <244848.3433.qm@web55604.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

Dear All,
?
Sorry my email was unclear.? Below are the details about the upcoming Forest Grove Library Used Book Sale? 11/09 ? 11/14/09
?
Monday, November 9, 10 AM ? 8 PM ? MOM Day: 
Members Only Monday: Just $5 to become a member.? $10 for families or organizations.
?
Tuesday, November 10, 10 AM ? 8 PM
?
Wednesday, November 11, 10 AM ? 8 PM 
(Library closed for Veterans Day but SALE IS OPEN!)
?
Thursday, November 12, 10 AM ? 5 PM
?
Friday, November 13, 10 AM ? 5 PM
?
Saturday, November 14, 10 AM ? 3 PM ? This day ONLY $5 for a bag of books
?
To volunteer to set up, cashier, or clean up - email or call me.
?
Thanks so much and Happy Autumn!
Alana Graham 503-359-9719
?



?


      

From osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  2 16:49:46 2009
From: osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com (Allen Warren)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 16:49:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Grovenet] which should come first: street sweeper or leaf
	collector?
Message-ID: <14140.38712.qm@web112115.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

As has been the case in recent years, the city's excellent leaf pickup program is about a week (or so) behind the published schedule dates, meaning the leaves weren't picked up on our street last week per the schedule.  But since the city always does a wonderful job every year picking up the leaves left on the street next to the curb, and since Mother Nature always seem to wait to drop the last leaves, it all works out pretty well in the end.

But this morning I had to scratch my head: the street sweeper came down our street and had to sweep outside the street leaf piles.  Wouldn't it be more economical to have the street sweeper hit the streets right *after* they've been vacuumed clean, not before?  What am I missing here?


Allen Warren



      

From rab at jurislex.com  Mon Nov  2 17:02:06 2009
From: rab at jurislex.com (Bob Browning)
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 17:02:06 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] which should come first: street sweeper or
	leaf	collector?
In-Reply-To: <14140.38712.qm@web112115.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <14140.38712.qm@web112115.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4AEF810E.2090103@jurislex.com>

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From feralcattamer at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  2 17:31:52 2009
From: feralcattamer at yahoo.com (Holly T.)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 17:31:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Grovenet] which should come first: street sweeper or leaf
	collector?
In-Reply-To: <4AEF810E.2090103@jurislex.com>
References: <14140.38712.qm@web112115.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<4AEF810E.2090103@jurislex.com>
Message-ID: <177477.38685.qm@web56101.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

I gotta wonder why leaf sweeping should be necessary at all. Every Autumn, my next-door neighbor, an environmental science professor at PU, puts all the leaves he can rake atop his garden beds. And he has a TON of them because there are giant oak, dogwood, and magnolia trees in his yard. No need for bark dust in my neighbor's yard. The leaves decompose, keep the weeds down, add nutrients to the soil, and actually look pretty darned nice if you don't mind that "fluffy" look. 

Following my neighbor's lead, for the past couple of years, I have been topping my raised veggie garden beds and all of my perennial beds with as many leaves as I can rake up. Come Spring, I just till them into the soil. I also fill my compost bins with leaves and let 'em rot there through the winter months.

Seems like this solution falls in line much better with the City's new "sustainability" pledge than sweeping up the leaves and hauling them away. Of course, it's a lot more work for most people than just raking (or blowing) them into the street.

I wonder what the city does with the leaves. Anybody know? If they're not going back into the soil, I gotta wonder why not. Composting them for the Community Gardens sounds to me like a fabulous idea if no one's thought of doing that already.

Holly




________________________________
From: Bob Browning <rab at jurislex.com>
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Mon, November 2, 2009 5:02:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] which should come first: street sweeper or leaf collector?

You are missing nothing more than when the street
sweeper comes into our cul-de-sac at 7:00 am, when every single parking
space is taken, rather than at 10:00 am, when all the cars are gone!!
They've done it that way for years!!

bob "weird schedule" browning
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Allen Warren wrote: 
As has been the case in recent years, the city's excellent leaf pickup program is about a week (or so) behind the published schedule dates, meaning the leaves weren't picked up on our street last week per the schedule.  But since the city always does a wonderful job every year picking up the leaves left on the street next to the curb, and since Mother Nature always seem to wait to drop the last leaves, it all works out pretty well in the end.
>
>But this morning I had to scratch my head: the street sweeper came down our street and had to sweep outside the street leaf piles.  Wouldn't it be more economical to have the street sweeper hit the streets right *after* they've been vacuumed clean, not before?  What am I missing here?
>
>Allen Warren



      

From waltw at teleport.com  Mon Nov  2 17:45:18 2009
From: waltw at teleport.com (Walt Wentz)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 17:45:18 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] which should come first: street sweeper or leaf
	collector?
In-Reply-To: <177477.38685.qm@web56101.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <14140.38712.qm@web112115.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<4AEF810E.2090103@jurislex.com>
	<177477.38685.qm@web56101.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1720AE59-50CC-438F-8E3F-CA92A056E9C9@teleport.com>

What the city does with the leaves is to haul some of them to the  
Community Garden, where they will be used to cover the garden plots  
over the winter, and more of them to Wildberry Organics, where they  
will be used ditto. A smaller amount is retained overwinter on the  
city's leaf pile,  whence they furnish quality mulch in the spring.
WW
On Nov 2, 2009, at 5:31 PM, Holly T. wrote:

> I gotta wonder why leaf sweeping should be necessary at all. Every  
> Autumn, my next-door neighbor, an environmental science professor  
> at PU, puts all the leaves he can rake atop his garden beds. And he  
> has a TON of them because there are giant oak, dogwood, and  
> magnolia trees in his yard. No need for bark dust in my neighbor's  
> yard. The leaves decompose, keep the weeds down, add nutrients to  
> the soil, and actually look pretty darned nice if you don't mind  
> that "fluffy" look.
>
> Following my neighbor's lead, for the past couple of years, I have  
> been topping my raised veggie garden beds and all of my perennial  
> beds with as many leaves as I can rake up. Come Spring, I just till  
> them into the soil. I also fill my compost bins with leaves and let  
> 'em rot there through the winter months.
>
> Seems like this solution falls in line much better with the City's  
> new "sustainability" pledge than sweeping up the leaves and hauling  
> them away. Of course, it's a lot more work for most people than  
> just raking (or blowing) them into the street.
>
> I wonder what the city does with the leaves. Anybody know? If  
> they're not going back into the soil, I gotta wonder why not.  
> Composting them for the Community Gardens sounds to me like a  
> fabulous idea if no one's thought of doing that already.
>
> Holly
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Bob Browning <rab at jurislex.com>
> To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> Sent: Mon, November 2, 2009 5:02:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] which should come first: street sweeper or  
> leaf collector?
>
> You are missing nothing more than when the street
> sweeper comes into our cul-de-sac at 7:00 am, when every single  
> parking
> space is taken, rather than at 10:00 am, when all the cars are gone!!
> They've done it that way for years!!
>
> bob "weird schedule" browning
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Allen Warren wrote:
> As has been the case in recent years, the city's excellent leaf  
> pickup program is about a week (or so) behind the published  
> schedule dates, meaning the leaves weren't picked up on our street  
> last week per the schedule.  But since the city always does a  
> wonderful job every year picking up the leaves left on the street  
> next to the curb, and since Mother Nature always seem to wait to  
> drop the last leaves, it all works out pretty well in the end.
>>
>> But this morning I had to scratch my head: the street sweeper came  
>> down our street and had to sweep outside the street leaf piles.   
>> Wouldn't it be more economical to have the street sweeper hit the  
>> streets right *after* they've been vacuumed clean, not before?   
>> What am I missing here?
>>
>> Allen Warren
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From feralcattamer at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  2 17:49:49 2009
From: feralcattamer at yahoo.com (Holly T.)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 17:49:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Grovenet] which should come first: street sweeper or leaf
	collector?
In-Reply-To: <1720AE59-50CC-438F-8E3F-CA92A056E9C9@teleport.com>
References: <14140.38712.qm@web112115.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<4AEF810E.2090103@jurislex.com>
	<177477.38685.qm@web56101.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
	<1720AE59-50CC-438F-8E3F-CA92A056E9C9@teleport.com>
Message-ID: <17031.47163.qm@web56105.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Awesome!  Glad to hear this, Walt!!!

Holly




________________________________
From: Walt Wentz <waltw at teleport.com>
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Mon, November 2, 2009 5:45:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] which should come first: street sweeper or leaf collector?

What the city does with the leaves is to haul some of them to the  
Community Garden, where they will be used to cover the garden plots  
over the winter, and more of them to Wildberry Organics, where they  
will be used ditto. A smaller amount is retained overwinter on the  
city's leaf pile,  whence they furnish quality mulch in the spring.
WW
On Nov 2, 2009, at 5:31 PM, Holly T. wrote:

> I gotta wonder why leaf sweeping should be necessary at all. Every  
> Autumn, my next-door neighbor, an environmental science professor  
> at PU, puts all the leaves he can rake atop his garden beds. And he  
> has a TON of them because there are giant oak, dogwood, and  
> magnolia trees in his yard. No need for bark dust in my neighbor's  
> yard. The leaves decompose, keep the weeds down, add nutrients to  
> the soil, and actually look pretty darned nice if you don't mind  
> that "fluffy" look.
>
> Following my neighbor's lead, for the past couple of years, I have  
> been topping my raised veggie garden beds and all of my perennial  
> beds with as many leaves as I can rake up. Come Spring, I just till  
> them into the soil. I also fill my compost bins with leaves and let  
> 'em rot there through the winter months.
>
> Seems like this solution falls in line much better with the City's  
> new "sustainability" pledge than sweeping up the leaves and hauling  
> them away. Of course, it's a lot more work for most people than  
> just raking (or blowing) them into the street.
>
> I wonder what the city does with the leaves. Anybody know? If  
> they're not going back into the soil, I gotta wonder why not.  
> Composting them for the Community Gardens sounds to me like a  
> fabulous idea if no one's thought of doing that already.
>
> Holly
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Bob Browning <rab at jurislex.com>
> To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> Sent: Mon, November 2, 2009 5:02:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] which should come first: street sweeper or  
> leaf collector?
>
> You are missing nothing more than when the street
> sweeper comes into our cul-de-sac at 7:00 am, when every single  
> parking
> space is taken, rather than at 10:00 am, when all the cars are gone!!
> They've done it that way for years!!
>
> bob "weird schedule" browning
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Allen Warren wrote:
> As has been the case in recent years, the city's excellent leaf  
> pickup program is about a week (or so) behind the published  
> schedule dates, meaning the leaves weren't picked up on our street  
> last week per the schedule.  But since the city always does a  
> wonderful job every year picking up the leaves left on the street  
> next to the curb, and since Mother Nature always seem to wait to  
> drop the last leaves, it all works out pretty well in the end.
>>
>> But this morning I had to scratch my head: the street sweeper came  
>> down our street and had to sweep outside the street leaf piles.  
>> Wouldn't it be more economical to have the street sweeper hit the  
>> streets right *after* they've been vacuumed clean, not before?  
>> What am I missing here?
>>
>> Allen Warren
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



      

From chuck at grovenet.net  Mon Nov  2 17:51:13 2009
From: chuck at grovenet.net (chuck)
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 17:51:13 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] which should come first: street sweeper or
	leaf	collector?
In-Reply-To: <177477.38685.qm@web56101.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <14140.38712.qm@web112115.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>	<4AEF810E.2090103@jurislex.com>
	<177477.38685.qm@web56101.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4AEF8C91.8090700@grovenet.net>

Holly T. wrote:
> I gotta wonder why leaf sweeping should be necessary at all. Every Autumn, my next-door neighbor, an environmental science professor at PU, puts all the leaves he can rake atop his garden beds. And he has a TON of them because there are giant oak, dogwood, and magnolia trees in his yard. No need for bark dust in my neighbor's yard. The leaves decompose, keep the weeds down, add nutrients to the soil, and actually look pretty darned nice if you don't mind that "fluffy" look. 
>
> Following my neighbor's lead, for the past couple of years, I have been topping my raised veggie garden beds and all of my perennial beds with as many leaves as I can rake up. Come Spring, I just till them into the soil. I also fill my compost bins with leaves and let 'em rot there through the winter months.
>
> Seems like this solution falls in line much better with the City's new "sustainability" pledge than sweeping up the leaves and hauling them away. Of course, it's a lot more work for most people than just raking (or blowing) them into the street.
>
> I wonder what the city does with the leaves. Anybody know? If they're not going back into the soil, I gotta wonder why not. Composting them for the Community Gardens sounds to me like a fabulous idea if no one's thought of doing that already.
>
> Holly
>
>
>
>   
Just did this exact thing today.  I hate giving away free compost.  Good 
idea Holly.

chuck

From Leslie.Neyman at pobox.com  Mon Nov  2 18:55:09 2009
From: Leslie.Neyman at pobox.com (Leslie.Neyman)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 18:55:09 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] which should come first: street sweeper or leaf
 collector?
In-Reply-To: <4AEF8C91.8090700@grovenet.net>
References: <14140.38712.qm@web112115.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<4AEF810E.2090103@jurislex.com>
	<177477.38685.qm@web56101.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
	<4AEF8C91.8090700@grovenet.net>
Message-ID: <ED7A97CDFA0B441384A7F2CF4DEBBB1F@Office>

I used my leaves for mulch last year also. It makes so much sense. But then
I read in the 10/16 issue of the Oregonian's HGNW section that this practice
creates the perfect condition for slugs to reproduce on a massive scale. And
I did have more slugs this year in the veggie garden. Has anyone else seen
this correlation? Here's the article:

http://tinyurl.com/ykdtmb4
 



From jschrag at FGNewsTimes.com  Mon Nov  2 19:03:29 2009
From: jschrag at FGNewsTimes.com (jschrag at FGNewsTimes.com)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 19:03:29 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] which should come first: street sweeper
	or	leaf	collector?
In-Reply-To: <4AEF8C91.8090700@grovenet.net>
References: <14140.38712.qm@web112115.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<4AEF810E.2090103@jurislex.com>
	<177477.38685.qm@web56101.mail.re3.yahoo.com>,
	<4AEF8C91.8090700@grovenet.net>
Message-ID: <B6FAD9BDBBF5244BBDD2924075EECBCA37C6ADB2@PMG-EXCHANGE.pmg.pamplincom.com>

Here are some tips on leaf composting:

http://www.forestgrovenewstimes.com/sustainable/story.php?story_id=119264130207879100

And here's what happens to all those leaves the city collects (they get composted!)

http://www.forestgrovenewstimes.com/sustainable/story.php?story_id=116180281383922000


John Schrag
Editor & Publisher
News-Times
Forest Grove, Oregon
503-357-3181

Voted the "best small newspaper in Oregon" 2006, 2007, 2008


________________________________________
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On Behalf Of chuck [chuck at grovenet.net]
Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 5:51 PM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] which should come first: street sweeper or      leaf    collector?

Holly T. wrote:
> I gotta wonder why leaf sweeping should be necessary at all. Every Autumn, my next-door neighbor, an environmental science professor at PU, puts all the leaves he can rake atop his garden beds. And he has a TON of them because there are giant oak, dogwood, and magnolia trees in his yard. No need for bark dust in my neighbor's yard. The leaves decompose, keep the weeds down, add nutrients to the soil, and actually look pretty darned nice if you don't mind that "fluffy" look.
>
> Following my neighbor's lead, for the past couple of years, I have been topping my raised veggie garden beds and all of my perennial beds with as many leaves as I can rake up. Come Spring, I just till them into the soil. I also fill my compost bins with leaves and let 'em rot there through the winter months.
>
> Seems like this solution falls in line much better with the City's new "sustainability" pledge than sweeping up the leaves and hauling them away. Of course, it's a lot more work for most people than just raking (or blowing) them into the street.
>
> I wonder what the city does with the leaves. Anybody know? If they're not going back into the soil, I gotta wonder why not. Composting them for the Community Gardens sounds to me like a fabulous idea if no one's thought of doing that already.
>
> Holly
>
>
>
>
Just did this exact thing today.  I hate giving away free compost.  Good
idea Holly.

chuck
_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

From osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  2 20:24:17 2009
From: osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com (Allen Warren)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 20:24:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Grovenet] which should come first: street sweeper or leaf
	collector?
In-Reply-To: <B6FAD9BDBBF5244BBDD2924075EECBCA37C6ADB2@PMG-EXCHANGE.pmg.pamplincom.com>
References: <14140.38712.qm@web112115.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<4AEF810E.2090103@jurislex.com>
	<177477.38685.qm@web56101.mail.re3.yahoo.com>,
	<4AEF8C91.8090700@grovenet.net>
	<B6FAD9BDBBF5244BBDD2924075EECBCA37C6ADB2@PMG-EXCHANGE.pmg.pamplincom.com>
Message-ID: <214661.77728.qm@web112119.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

But back to my original posting . . . any idea why street sweepers are working on streets that have all the leaves blocking curb access?

 
Allen Warren

From: "jschrag at FGNewsTimes.com" <jschrag at FGNewsTimes.com>

To: grovenet at rdrop.com
Sent: Mon, November 2, 2009 7:03:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] which should come first: street sweeper or leaf collector?

Here are some tips on leaf composting:

http://www.forestgrovenewstimes.com/sustainable/story.php?story_id=119264130207879100

And here's what happens to all those leaves the city collects (they get composted!)

http://www.forestgrovenewstimes.com/sustainable/story.php?story_id=116180281383922000


John Schrag
Editor & Publisher
News-Times
Forest Grove, Oregon
503-357-3181

Voted the "best small newspaper in Oregon" 2006, 2007, 2008


________________________________________
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On Behalf Of chuck [chuck at grovenet.net]
Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 5:51 PM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] which should come first: street sweeper or      leaf    collector?

Holly T. wrote:
> I gotta wonder why leaf sweeping should be necessary at all. Every Autumn, my next-door neighbor, an environmental science professor at PU, puts all the leaves he can rake atop his garden beds. And he has a TON of them because there are giant oak, dogwood, and magnolia trees in his yard. No need for bark dust in my neighbor's yard. The leaves decompose, keep the weeds down, add nutrients to the soil, and actually look pretty darned nice if you don't mind that "fluffy" look.
>
> Following my neighbor's lead, for the past couple of years, I have been topping my raised veggie garden beds and all of my perennial beds with as many leaves as I can rake up. Come Spring, I just till them into the soil. I also fill my compost bins with leaves and let 'em rot there through the winter months.
>
> Seems like this solution falls in line much better with the City's new "sustainability" pledge than sweeping up the leaves and hauling them away. Of course, it's a lot more work for most people than just raking (or blowing) them into the street.
>
> I wonder what the city does with the leaves. Anybody know? If they're not going back into the soil, I gotta wonder why not. Composting them for the Community Gardens sounds to me like a fabulous idea if no one's thought of doing that already.
>
> Holly
>
>
>
>
Just did this exact thing today.  I hate giving away free compost.  Good
idea Holly.

chuck
_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



      

From jo.david at verizon.net  Mon Nov  2 21:57:26 2009
From: jo.david at verizon.net (David Morelli)
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 21:57:26 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] USS New York (LPD 21) | The Official
	Website.	Commissioning Event	Information.
In-Reply-To: <2418-4AEF1601-2813@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>
References: <2418-4AEF1601-2813@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>
Message-ID: <C2B45220-1BDE-4640-A358-CD98EF82A204@verizon.net>

I was expecting to see the mounts for some deck guns.

David

On Nov 2, 2009, at 9:25 AM, Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss wrote:

> It is times like this that makes me very patriotic and proud to be an
> American Vet.   If I could .. I would be there for the  
> Commissioning, so
> I guess I'll just donate what I can...
> I saw it on the morning satellite newsfrom New York a little while
> ago....
>
> Boy-O-Boy what an Impressive Sight.
> It even makes for Few Hosstyle Tears.
>
> http://www.ussny.org/
>
> http://www.ussny.org/
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Tue Nov  3 08:41:22 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 08:41:22 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet]
	=?iso-8859-1?q?USS_New_York_=28LPD_21=29_=7C_The_Offic?=
	=?iso-8859-1?q?ial_Website=2E=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Commissioning_Event=A0?=
	=?iso-8859-1?q?=A0=A0=A0=A0Information=2E?=
In-Reply-To: David Morelli <jo.david@verizon.net>'s message of Mon, 02 Nov
	2009 21:57:26 -0800
Message-ID: <10863-4AF05D32-38@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net>

David ...
Because of the landing area for planes, and choppers there is not much
usable deck room.  however, the guns are recessed, and on rails that can
be rolled out when and if they are needed. The caliber escapes me at the
moment.
   <----------------------><--------------------->

David wrote ....
I was expecting to see the mounts for some deck guns.


From khourym at verizon.net  Tue Nov  3 09:09:27 2009
From: khourym at verizon.net (Martha Khoury)
Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 09:09:27 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] Great opportunity - spread the word
Message-ID: <A8736624-1A01-4B6B-B5EC-F5D4F5E14EFF@verizon.net>

November 5 :: 6pm :: Taylor Auditorium - Pacific University, Forest  
Grove
"Fresh" is a documentary about real solutions to the current U.S. food  
industry. Local farmers, brewers, wine makers and chefs will speak  
about their sustainable practices and answer student questions. Free  
for all! www.freshthemovie.com.


6:00pm :: FRESH celebrates the farmers, thinkers and business people  
across America who are re-inventing our food system. Each has  
witnessed the rapid transformation of our agriculture into an  
industrial model, and confronted the consequences: food contamination,  
environmental pollution, depletion of natural resources and morbid  
obesity. Forging healthier, sustainable alternatives, they offer a  
practical vision for a future of our food and our planet.

Several of FRESH's main characters include urban farmer and activist  
Will Allen, recipient of MacArthur?s 2008 Genius Award; sustainable  
farmer and entrepreneur Joel Salatin, made famous by Michael Pollan?s  
book The Omnivore?s Dilemma; and supermarket owner David Ball, who  
challenges our Wal-Mart dominated economy.

7:30pm :: Come hear Tyler and Alicia from Afton Farms. Tyler Jones was  
an apprentice under Joel Salatin at Polyface Farm from 2002-2003, and  
now farms full time in Corvallis Oregon with his wife Alicia on their  
106-acre Afton Field Farm.  They raise pastured poultry (eggs,  
broilers and turkeys) oak savanna pork and grass-fed beef and lamb  
using multi-species rotational grazing.

See their recent article in the Oregonian: http://www.oregonlive.com/foodday/index.ssf/2009/09/growing_greener_acres.html

Come hear Tyler and local Forest Grove wine makers, bakers and farmers  
speak about sustainability practice and philosophies in our local  
community.  Come listen to their reasons behind developing their  
business and lifestyle after environmentally conscious practices and  
here stories about local innovative practice.

Featured Speakers:
Tyler and Alicia Jones from Afton Farms from Corvallis, Oregon
     Apprentices to Joel Salatin from Omnivore's Dilemma and FRESH the  
documentary
Patton Valley and Montinore Vineyards from Forest Grove
Dovetail Bakery form Portland, Oregon

From isis23ra at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  3 09:07:08 2009
From: isis23ra at yahoo.com (Alana Graham)
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 09:07:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Grovenet] FG Library used book sale needs you!
In-Reply-To: <214661.77728.qm@web112119.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <851802.37178.qm@web55607.mail.re4.yahoo.com>






Dear All,
? 
Below are the hours and tasks that we still need to fill in with names for the FG Library Used booksale.? I hope you can help.? Kindly let me know.? Gratefully yours!? Alana Graham 503-357-2136 X 246? (All the action takes place in the Rogers Room at the Forest Grove Library)? 
? 
HELP SET UP 
? 
Wed. 11/6/09:? 6 ? 8 PM 
? 
Thurs. 11/05/09, ?10 AM ? 5 PM 
? 
Fri. 11/6/09, ?10 AM ? 5 PM 
? 
Sat. 11/7/09, 10 AM ? 3 Pm or whenever we are done. 
? 
HELP CASHIER 
? 
Mon, 11/9/09:? 10 AM ? 12 Noon ? need one person 
???????????????????????? 12 PM ? 2 PM ? need one person 
???????????????????????? 5 PM ? 6 PM? - need two people 
???????????????????????? 6 PM ? 8 PM? - need one person 
? 
Tues. 11/10/09:?? 4 PM ? 6 PM ? need one person 
??????????????????????????? 6 PM ? 8 PM ? need two people 
? 
Wed. 11/11/09:?? 10 AM ? 12 PM ? need one person 
??????????????????????????? 4 PM ? 6 PM? - need one person 
???????????????????????????? 6 PM ? 8 PM ? need two people 
? 
Thurs. 11/12/09:? 10 AM ? 12 PM ? need one person 
???????????????????????????? 12 PM ? 2 PM ? need one person 
???????????????????????????? 4 PM ? 5 PM ? need one person 
? 
Fri.? 11/13/09:? 12 PM ? 2 PM Need two people 
???????????????????????? 
? 
Sat. 11/14/09:? 12 PM ? 3 PM Need two people 
? 
HELP CLEAN UP 
? 
Sat. 11/14/09:? 3 PM ? 4:40 PM ?- Need as many people as we can get 
? 
Mon. 11/16/09: 10 AM ? 12 PM ? Need as many people as we can get 
?


?


      

From feralcattamer at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  3 14:31:13 2009
From: feralcattamer at yahoo.com (Holly T.)
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 14:31:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Grovenet] Great opportunity - spread the word
In-Reply-To: <A8736624-1A01-4B6B-B5EC-F5D4F5E14EFF@verizon.net>
References: <A8736624-1A01-4B6B-B5EC-F5D4F5E14EFF@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <699223.55592.qm@web56105.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Martha, this event sounds outstanding! Even better if it's free. Do you know if there'll be a charge at the door?

Holly




________________________________
From: Martha Khoury <khourym at verizon.net>
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Cc: Barry Tauscher <Barry at NourishingFoods.org>; Lauri Tauscher <Lauri at NourishingFoods.org>
Sent: Tue, November 3, 2009 9:09:27 AM
Subject: [Grovenet] Great opportunity - spread the word

November 5 :: 6pm :: Taylor Auditorium - Pacific University, Forest  
Grove
"Fresh" is a documentary about real solutions to the current U.S. food  
industry. Local farmers, brewers, wine makers and chefs will speak  
about their sustainable practices and answer student questions. Free  
for all! www.freshthemovie.com.


6:00pm :: FRESH celebrates the farmers, thinkers and business people  
across America who are re-inventing our food system. Each has  
witnessed the rapid transformation of our agriculture into an  
industrial model, and confronted the consequences: food contamination,  
environmental pollution, depletion of natural resources and morbid  
obesity. Forging healthier, sustainable alternatives, they offer a  
practical vision for a future of our food and our planet.

Several of FRESH's main characters include urban farmer and activist  
Will Allen, recipient of MacArthur?s 2008 Genius Award; sustainable  
farmer and entrepreneur Joel Salatin, made famous by Michael Pollan?s  
book The Omnivore?s Dilemma; and supermarket owner David Ball, who  
challenges our Wal-Mart dominated economy.

7:30pm :: Come hear Tyler and Alicia from Afton Farms. Tyler Jones was  
an apprentice under Joel Salatin at Polyface Farm from 2002-2003, and  
now farms full time in Corvallis Oregon with his wife Alicia on their  
106-acre Afton Field Farm.  They raise pastured poultry (eggs,  
broilers and turkeys) oak savanna pork and grass-fed beef and lamb  
using multi-species rotational grazing.

See their recent article in the Oregonian: http://www.oregonlive.com/foodday/index.ssf/2009/09/growing_greener_acres.html

Come hear Tyler and local Forest Grove wine makers, bakers and farmers  
speak about sustainability practice and philosophies in our local  
community.  Come listen to their reasons behind developing their  
business and lifestyle after environmentally conscious practices and  
here stories about local innovative practice.

Featured Speakers:
Tyler and Alicia Jones from Afton Farms from Corvallis, Oregon
     Apprentices to Joel Salatin from Omnivore's Dilemma and FRESH the  
documentary
Patton Valley and Montinore Vineyards from Forest Grove
Dovetail Bakery form Portland, Oregon
_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



      

From khourym at verizon.net  Tue Nov  3 16:48:06 2009
From: khourym at verizon.net (Martha Khoury)
Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 16:48:06 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] Great opportunity - spread the word
In-Reply-To: <699223.55592.qm@web56105.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <A8736624-1A01-4B6B-B5EC-F5D4F5E14EFF@verizon.net>
	<699223.55592.qm@web56105.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <EBF7A78D-60DE-4F5E-8AD8-9677F6D4466F@verizon.net>

As far as I know it is free. I picked this up from Pacific's PUNN  
website and this was all the info there. --MK


On Nov 3, 2009, at 2:31 PM, Holly T. wrote:

> Martha, this event sounds outstanding! Even better if it's free. Do  
> you know if there'll be a charge at the door?
>
> Holly
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Martha Khoury <khourym at verizon.net>
> To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> Cc: Barry Tauscher <Barry at NourishingFoods.org>; Lauri Tauscher <Lauri at NourishingFoods.org 
> >
> Sent: Tue, November 3, 2009 9:09:27 AM
> Subject: [Grovenet] Great opportunity - spread the word
>
> November 5 :: 6pm :: Taylor Auditorium - Pacific University, Forest
> Grove
> "Fresh" is a documentary about real solutions to the current U.S. food
> industry. Local farmers, brewers, wine makers and chefs will speak
> about their sustainable practices and answer student questions. Free
> for all! www.freshthemovie.com.
>
>
> 6:00pm :: FRESH celebrates the farmers, thinkers and business people
> across America who are re-inventing our food system. Each has
> witnessed the rapid transformation of our agriculture into an
> industrial model, and confronted the consequences: food contamination,
> environmental pollution, depletion of natural resources and morbid
> obesity. Forging healthier, sustainable alternatives, they offer a
> practical vision for a future of our food and our planet.
>
> Several of FRESH's main characters include urban farmer and activist
> Will Allen, recipient of MacArthur?s 2008 Genius Award; sustainable
> farmer and entrepreneur Joel Salatin, made famous by Michael Pollan?s
> book The Omnivore?s Dilemma; and supermarket owner David Ball, who
> challenges our Wal-Mart dominated economy.
>
> 7:30pm :: Come hear Tyler and Alicia from Afton Farms. Tyler Jones was
> an apprentice under Joel Salatin at Polyface Farm from 2002-2003, and
> now farms full time in Corvallis Oregon with his wife Alicia on their
> 106-acre Afton Field Farm.  They raise pastured poultry (eggs,
> broilers and turkeys) oak savanna pork and grass-fed beef and lamb
> using multi-species rotational grazing.
>
> See their recent article in the Oregonian: http://www.oregonlive.com/foodday/index.ssf/2009/09/growing_greener_acres.html
>
> Come hear Tyler and local Forest Grove wine makers, bakers and farmers
> speak about sustainability practice and philosophies in our local
> community.  Come listen to their reasons behind developing their
> business and lifestyle after environmentally conscious practices and
> here stories about local innovative practice.
>
> Featured Speakers:
> Tyler and Alicia Jones from Afton Farms from Corvallis, Oregon
>     Apprentices to Joel Salatin from Omnivore's Dilemma and FRESH the
> documentary
> Patton Valley and Montinore Vineyards from Forest Grove
> Dovetail Bakery form Portland, Oregon
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From feralcattamer at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  3 17:06:01 2009
From: feralcattamer at yahoo.com (Holly T.)
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 17:06:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Grovenet] Great opportunity - spread the word
In-Reply-To: <EBF7A78D-60DE-4F5E-8AD8-9677F6D4466F@verizon.net>
References: <A8736624-1A01-4B6B-B5EC-F5D4F5E14EFF@verizon.net>
	<699223.55592.qm@web56105.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
	<EBF7A78D-60DE-4F5E-8AD8-9677F6D4466F@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <806670.71602.qm@web56103.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Looks like you're right. Further exploration of Pacific University's site reveals that this event is, in fact, free.

http://www.pacificu.edu/calendar/detail.cfm?CALENDAR_ID=5639&CATEGORY_ID=136

Thanks for the heads up, Martha!

Holly




________________________________
From: Martha Khoury <khourym at verizon.net>
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Tue, November 3, 2009 4:48:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Great opportunity - spread the word

As far as I know it is free. I picked this up from Pacific's PUNN  
website and this was all the info there. --MK


On Nov 3, 2009, at 2:31 PM, Holly T. wrote:

> Martha, this event sounds outstanding! Even better if it's free. Do  
> you know if there'll be a charge at the door?
>
> Holly
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Martha Khoury <khourym at verizon.net>
> To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> Cc: Barry Tauscher <Barry at NourishingFoods.org>; Lauri Tauscher <Lauri at NourishingFoods.org 
> >
> Sent: Tue, November 3, 2009 9:09:27 AM
> Subject: [Grovenet] Great opportunity - spread the word
>
> November 5 :: 6pm :: Taylor Auditorium - Pacific University, Forest
> Grove
> "Fresh" is a documentary about real solutions to the current U.S. food
> industry. Local farmers, brewers, wine makers and chefs will speak
> about their sustainable practices and answer student questions. Free
> for all! www.freshthemovie.com.
>
>
> 6:00pm :: FRESH celebrates the farmers, thinkers and business people
> across America who are re-inventing our food system. Each has
> witnessed the rapid transformation of our agriculture into an
> industrial model, and confronted the consequences: food contamination,
> environmental pollution, depletion of natural resources and morbid
> obesity. Forging healthier, sustainable alternatives, they offer a
> practical vision for a future of our food and our planet.
>
> Several of FRESH's main characters include urban farmer and activist
> Will Allen, recipient of MacArthur?s 2008 Genius Award; sustainable
> farmer and entrepreneur Joel Salatin, made famous by Michael Pollan?s
> book The Omnivore?s Dilemma; and supermarket owner David Ball, who
> challenges our Wal-Mart dominated economy.
>
> 7:30pm :: Come hear Tyler and Alicia from Afton Farms. Tyler Jones was
> an apprentice under Joel Salatin at Polyface Farm from 2002-2003, and
> now farms full time in Corvallis Oregon with his wife Alicia on their
> 106-acre Afton Field Farm.  They raise pastured poultry (eggs,
> broilers and turkeys) oak savanna pork and grass-fed beef and lamb
> using multi-species rotational grazing.
>
> See their recent article in the Oregonian: http://www.oregonlive.com/foodday/index.ssf/2009/09/growing_greener_acres.html
>
> Come hear Tyler and local Forest Grove wine makers, bakers and farmers
> speak about sustainability practice and philosophies in our local
> community.  Come listen to their reasons behind developing their
> business and lifestyle after environmentally conscious practices and
> here stories about local innovative practice.
>
> Featured Speakers:
> Tyler and Alicia Jones from Afton Farms from Corvallis, Oregon
>     Apprentices to Joel Salatin from Omnivore's Dilemma and FRESH the
> documentary
> Patton Valley and Montinore Vineyards from Forest Grove
> Dovetail Bakery form Portland, Oregon
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



      

From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Wed Nov  4 07:47:59 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 07:47:59 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] A Hosstyle Good Day to the Good folks in The Grove.
Message-ID: <12013-4AF1A22F-630@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>

Hi This Greeting Is Just For You - Good Morning :-
http://exclusives.250free.com/html4/gmfarm.html

Looks like Fall has begun to descended upon us. I am starting to see
forest denizens scampering around here and there try to prepare for the
coming winter.

As for an OleHoss and crew .. we all set, for I do not like running
around at the minute, so Father-Winter, bring it on!

by the bye ... Starting tomorrow, the weather guessers are saying that
we might get about 5 inches (give or take) of rain by Saturday...

~A~ :?)

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From khourym at verizon.net  Wed Nov  4 14:15:02 2009
From: khourym at verizon.net (Martha Khoury)
Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 14:15:02 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] First Wednesday
Message-ID: <159A5992-8D14-4FD9-BE47-63D620FA7A98@verizon.net>

Tonight. Downtown Forest Grove. 5-8pm

From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Sat Nov  7 08:15:46 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 08:15:46 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] A Hosstyle & Garfield Greeting 4 U
Message-ID: <12019-4AF59D32-2226@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>

Hi This Greeting Is Just For You - Have A Good Weekend.. :- 
 http://exclusives.250free.com/html4/lostmind.html

http://tinyurl.com/86oms ... this url tell s the good folks in the grove
what to expect for the next few days...

For this last storm I recorded 1.25 inches, and 5,5 for the last one,
and1.75 for september... However, we are about 10 inches give or take
from last season....

~A~ :?) trying to keep my powder dry.

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From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Sat Nov  7 19:24:35 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 19:24:35 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] found some great games
Message-ID: <4505-4AF639F3-335@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>

http://www.mamarocks.com/games.htm

almost to much for an olehoss

-------------- next part --------------
http://www.mamarocks.com/games.htm

From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Sat Nov  7 19:34:44 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 19:34:44 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] Rainy Days
Message-ID: <4498-4AF63C54-1842@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>

http://www.mamarocks.com/rainy_days.htm

-------------- next part --------------
http://www.mamarocks.com/rainy_days.htm

From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Mon Nov  9 09:10:59 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 09:10:59 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] A Hosstlye Good Day?
Message-ID: <18353-4AF84D23-2368@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net>

http://www.mamarocks.com/rainy_days.htm

as of last Monday ... 2.15 inches of rain

off hand .. I've about 8 or 10 inches this season give or take, still
far below the norm for this time last year.... of course if Mr Ed has a
different amount, that is because his pace maker screws up his fancy
electronic gauge.

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From edavie at verizon.net  Mon Nov  9 10:52:50 2009
From: edavie at verizon.net (Ed Davie)
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 10:52:50 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] A Hosstlye Good Day?
References: <18353-4AF84D23-2368@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net>
Message-ID: <A4F49EDFA4034C6EA2138531BDB741AC@700x>

Well, I lost track this month. I was away and didn't reset the rain gauge. So, my total is for two months now. About 8.15" so far.
Ed
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss 
  To: GroveNet at rdrop.com 
  Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 9:10 AM
  Subject: [Grovenet] A Hosstlye Good Day?


  http://www.mamarocks.com/rainy_days.htm

  as of last Monday ... 2.15 inches of rain

  off hand .. I've about 8 or 10 inches this season give or take, still
  far below the norm for this time last year.... of course if Mr Ed has a
  different amount, that is because his pace maker screws up his fancy
  electronic gauge.




------------------------------------------------------------------------------




  HaPpY









  ThAnKsGiViNg

   


  A Hosstyle Thanksgiving 
   




Alan's Place 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Mon Nov  9 12:41:59 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 12:41:59 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] A Hosstlye Good Day?
In-Reply-To: "Ed Davie" <edavie@verizon.net>'s message of Mon,
	09 Nov 2009 10:52:50 -0800
Message-ID: <12014-4AF87E97-10173@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>


Ed....
About 8.15" seems about right for sept, and oct, so just add the 2.15
for this month so far, and you will be just about right...

~A~  :?) 



From khourym at verizon.net  Mon Nov  9 19:47:51 2009
From: khourym at verizon.net (Martha Khoury)
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 19:47:51 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] In case you don't have anything else to do...
Message-ID: <ED217CE7-EDA4-4A7F-A7B0-1AD79C240204@verizon.net>

Hello, my name is Babak Seyed Shakeri, and I am putting on a concert to
raise money for the Child Foundation. For those of you Who don't know,
the Child Foundation is an organization that spends their time raising
money and finding sponsors for children in countries like Afghanistan,
Iran and Indonesia who are struggling with poverty.

I would like to invite you and all your friends and family to come to
this event. Tickets are donation only and will be available at the door.
We will have Classical music, dancing, and singing. There will also be a
raffle with gift cards donated by:
     * Ava
       Blue Tangerine
       The Kabob House
       Zaree Sara Emami - Hogan
       Rose Market
       Pasha Restaurant.

The concert will be:
Tuesday November 17th 2009 From 7 to 9 PM
Beaverton High School Auditorium:
13000 SW 2nd Street
Beaverton OR 97005

Please forward this message to your friends and family to tell them  
about this great chance
to help these children.

If you have any questions feel free to email me, Babak Seyed Shakeri,
at:  Babakseyedshakeri at hotmail.com

From rab at jurislex.com  Tue Nov 10 10:54:25 2009
From: rab at jurislex.com (Bob Browning)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 10:54:25 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] Sometimes I wonder what freedoms our Service Men and
 Women are fighting for ! ! ! !
Message-ID: <4AF9B6E1.7020807@jurislex.com>

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From isis23ra at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 10 10:56:48 2009
From: isis23ra at yahoo.com (Alana Graham)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 10:56:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Grovenet] Art and Activism at Pacific Thurs. 11/12, 7 PM
In-Reply-To: <ED217CE7-EDA4-4A7F-A7B0-1AD79C240204@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <378274.60079.qm@web55603.mail.re4.yahoo.com>


TIM MILLER:? 1001 BEDS ? ART AND ACTIVISM

Date:? ? ? ? ?????? Thursday, November 12
Time:? ? ? ? ? ??? 7:00-9:00 pm
Place:? ? ? ? ? ??? Tom Miles Theatre, Pacific University, Forest Grove, Oregon
Price:? ? ? ? ? ?????? $10.00 (except Free to Pacific University Students)
Tickets:? ? ? ? ??? For tickets:? Box Office (503)-352-2918. Hours 1-5 p.m., Mon. ? Fri.
Info:? ? ? ? ? ??? Kayla at pacificu.edu
Sponsor:? ? ?????? Center for Gender Equity CGE)


TIM MILLER is an internationally acclaimed performance artist.? Miller's creative work as a performer and writer explores the artistic, spiritual and political topography of his identity as a gay man. Hailed for his humor and passion, Miller's performances have been presented all over North America, Australia, and Europe. He is the author of the books SHIRTS & SKIN, BODY BLOWS and 1001 BEDS, which won the 2007 Lambda Literary Award for best book in Drama-Theatre.? He is a co-founder of two of the most influential performance spaces in the United States: Performance Space 122 on Manhattan's Lower East Side and Highways Performance Space in Santa Monica, CA.

Miller has received numerous grants from the National Endowment for the Arts. In 1990, Miller was awarded a NEA Solo Performer Fellowship, which was overturned under political pressure from the Bush White House because of the gay themes of Miller's work. Miller and three other artists, the so-called "NEA 4", successfully sued the federal government with the help of the ACLU for violation of their First Amendment rights and won a settlement where the government paid them the amount of the defunded grants and all court costs. Though the Supreme Court of the United States decided in 1998 to overturn part of Miller's case and determined that "standards of decency" are constitutional criteria for federal funding of the arts, Miller vows "to continue fighting for freedom of expression for fierce diverse voices."

Since 1999, Miller has focused his creative and political work on marriage equality and addressing the injustices facing lesbian and gay couples in America. Glory Box and US are funny, sexy, and politically charged explorations of same-sex marriage and the struggle for immigration rights for lesbian and gay bi-national couples. They recount the trials Miller has been forced to undergo in trying to keep his Australian partner in the United States. Says Miller, "I want the pieces to conjure for the audience a site for the placing of memories, hopes, and dreams of gay people's extraordinary potential for love."

www.TimMillerPerformer.com

Dr. Martha Rampton
Professor of History
Director-Center for Gender Equity
Pacific University
2043 College Way
Forest Grove, Oregon? 97116
Phone: 503 352 2772
Fax:? ???503 352 3195
CGE site:? www.pacificu.edu/academics/gender-equity/




?


      

From isis23ra at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 10 15:23:29 2009
From: isis23ra at yahoo.com (Alana Graham)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 15:23:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Grovenet] Desparately seeking people with trucks for tomorrow
In-Reply-To: <4AF9B6E1.7020807@jurislex.com>
Message-ID: <435538.11295.qm@web55606.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

Here I am again asking for help.....
?
Due to circumstances way beyond my control - I am seeking people with trucks to show up at the new Hillsboro Public Library, 2850 Brookwood Pkwy, Hillsboro at 11 AM tomorrow, Wed. 11/11 (Veteran's Day) to help gather up the leftover boxes of books from?their recent book sale and deliver to Forest Grove Library.
?
If you are able to help with this, show up at the library's main entrance and knock on the glass with keys.? If no one responds that means we are around back at the loading dock.
?
Let me know if anyone out there in Grovenet land can help.
?
Oh yeah and anyone want to take over being the book sale queen so you too can send out these desparate last minute emails??!!!?
?
thanks,
Alana
?
?
?
?
?


      

From jo.david at verizon.net  Tue Nov 10 18:37:02 2009
From: jo.david at verizon.net (David Morelli)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:37:02 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] Sometimes I wonder what freedoms our Service Men and
 Women are fighting for ! ! ! !
In-Reply-To: <4AF9B6E1.7020807@jurislex.com>
References: <4AF9B6E1.7020807@jurislex.com>
Message-ID: <2E61F79B-1CB4-4DA7-8376-7F76635405A6@verizon.net>

I suppose that the underlying question ought to be, "what sort of crime was being investigated?"

A political statement, or a credible threat of violence?

We do want to know who makes violent threats against others.  We do want to have our issues resolved through legal means.  Towards that ends we empower our legal agents to act on our behalf.  We want them to act within the laws.

David

On Nov 10, 2009, at 10:54 AM, Bob Browning wrote:

> The following is really scary and a clear indication of the dangers of  the State Secrets  rules as currently applied!!
> 
> bob "can't keep me quiet" browning

From whatsupy2k at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 10 21:02:55 2009
From: whatsupy2k at yahoo.com (Vickie Madeoneup)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 21:02:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Grovenet] digital TV question
In-Reply-To: <1256892576.24194.47.camel@Netty>
References: <1256892576.24194.47.camel@Netty>
Message-ID: <728760.42391.qm@web112413.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

I was wondering if digital TV has turned out to be what it was cracked up to be for all of you?

For us, even though we are hooked up to an HD antenea and also a converter box the TV is fairly poor.
It shuffles into it's digital pixels, gives a "no signal" message and then goes back to the show.

This happens real often.

I just wanted to find out if this is happening to others.

Vickie



      

From jo.david at verizon.net  Tue Nov 10 21:34:01 2009
From: jo.david at verizon.net (David Morelli)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 21:34:01 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] digital TV question
In-Reply-To: <728760.42391.qm@web112413.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <1256892576.24194.47.camel@Netty>
	<728760.42391.qm@web112413.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CE63F60A-39FD-448C-966C-DE56635F3F9E@verizon.net>

Yes.

On Nov 10, 2009, at 9:02 PM, Vickie Madeoneup wrote:

> I was wondering if digital TV has turned out to be what it was cracked up to be for all of you?
> 
> For us, even though we are hooked up to an HD antenea and also a converter box the TV is fairly poor.
> It shuffles into it's digital pixels, gives a "no signal" message and then goes back to the show.
> 
> This happens real often.
> 
> I just wanted to find out if this is happening to others.
> 
> Vickie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From feralcattamer at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 10 21:47:07 2009
From: feralcattamer at yahoo.com (Holly T.)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 21:47:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Grovenet] digital TV question
In-Reply-To: <728760.42391.qm@web112413.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <1256892576.24194.47.camel@Netty>
	<728760.42391.qm@web112413.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <600383.36060.qm@web56105.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Uh...yeah.  

Worst part is that I no longer get OPB. What a complete drag that is.

But, I do get this God channel at all hours of the day and night that appears to be for children and that appears to come from Australia. It's just about the WORST puppet show I've ever seen. It's like the voice overs are coming from Australia but the puppeteers are trying to finger-sync words that are spoken in Swahili. Plus, the puppets all look just terrible--like they've been through a hurricane and then mangled by pit bulls or something. Plus, the stories they tell are all so incredibly lame and fundamentalist. My crazy friend, Kevin, actually tapes hours and hours of this show at my place and takes them home to watch at his place for cheap entertainment. He goes into complete hysterics over this show because it's so astonishingly bad. Warped sense of humor that Kevin. 

On the other hand, the new digital programming has made it a lot easier for me to catch up on my reading.

Holly




________________________________
From: Vickie Madeoneup <whatsupy2k at yahoo.com>
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Tue, November 10, 2009 9:02:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] digital TV question

I was wondering if digital TV has turned out to be what it was cracked up to be for all of you?

For us, even though we are hooked up to an HD antenea and also a converter box the TV is fairly poor.
It shuffles into it's digital pixels, gives a "no signal" message and then goes back to the show.

This happens real often.

I just wanted to find out if this is happening to others.

Vickie



      
_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



      

From hannah at teleport.com  Tue Nov 10 21:49:52 2009
From: hannah at teleport.com (Kristy Gravlin)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 23:49:52 -0600
Subject: [Grovenet] digital TV question
In-Reply-To: <728760.42391.qm@web112413.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C71FACA0.11157%hannah@teleport.com>


I thought it was "just" because I am 5 miles west of Banks, in the woods,
with a very old, not very high-up antenna. But the symptoms are very much
the same. Some channels come in a lot better than others. I spend almost
every day watching (I use the term loosely, but do like something on while I
type) Qubo cartoons. They are good as cartoons go...but I'd like more
choices than cartoons, paid programming, and religious programs of every
ilk. I might be able to tolerate more of the "picture pixels" if it wasn't
also "voice pixels" which are VERY hard to listen to. I get a lot more
channels than before the marvelous box that was to make my life better...but
cannot depend upon seeing the three main channels...or nearly any other one
either.

I'll be interested in what others have to say.  Kristy



On 11/10/09 11:02 PM, "Vickie Madeoneup" <whatsupy2k at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I was wondering if digital TV has turned out to be what it was cracked up to
> be for all of you?
> 
> For us, even though we are hooked up to an HD antenea and also a converter box
> the TV is fairly poor.
> It shuffles into it's digital pixels, gives a "no signal" message and then
> goes back to the show.
> 
> This happens real often.
> 
> I just wanted to find out if this is happening to others.
> 
> Vickie
> 
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From isis23ra at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 10 21:56:28 2009
From: isis23ra at yahoo.com (Alana Graham)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 21:56:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Grovenet] Teachers buy cheap kids books tomorrow, 11/11
In-Reply-To: <C71FACA0.11157%hannah@teleport.com>
Message-ID: <482443.92022.qm@web55603.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

NIce selection of children's books (.25 each) and teen/young adult (.50) books at the FG Library book sale which IS OPEN TOMORROW, Veteran's Day from 10 AM - 8 PM.
?
Celebrate Veteran's Day by buying books and supporting your local library.
?
Many thanks
?
alana
?
?


      

From allnutt at verizon.net  Tue Nov 10 21:59:44 2009
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 21:59:44 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] digital TV question
In-Reply-To: <728760.42391.qm@web112413.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <1256892576.24194.47.camel@Netty>
	<728760.42391.qm@web112413.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <EE90EB95-3641-4217-A496-5C863DB10012@verizon.net>

For us it happens with Channel 2  (and 2-2) any time it is stormy. It  
has only happened once with channel 6.
But it also only happens in the part of the house that is the  
farthest from where the antenna comes into the house.  (On the other  
end of the house channel 2 is great).

 From the info that I read way back when, a lot depends on whether  
your antenna is on a two story or a one story house (two is better),  
whether trees or other structures block the signal from directly  
getting to your antenna, how far you are from the transmitter and how  
good the antenna is.

The kids are thrilled with the Olympic sports channel 32-2. I like  
the four channel 10s. And the rest is pretty worthless if you have  
seen all the MASH episodes a zillion times.  Sort of like it was before.
And the one true beauty is that the new antenna we bought (we got  
almost zero channels with the old dinky antenna) for $80 is way  
cheaper than any cable monthly bill over the long run.

Katie


On Nov 10, 2009, at 9:02 PM, Vickie Madeoneup wrote:

> I was wondering if digital TV has turned out to be what it was  
> cracked up to be for all of you?
>
> For us, even though we are hooked up to an HD antenea and also a  
> converter box the TV is fairly poor.
> It shuffles into it's digital pixels, gives a "no signal" message  
> and then goes back to the show.
>
> This happens real often.
>
> I just wanted to find out if this is happening to others.
>
> Vickie
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From allnutt at verizon.net  Tue Nov 10 22:08:04 2009
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 22:08:04 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] Sometimes I wonder what freedoms our Service Men and
 Women are fighting for ! ! ! !
In-Reply-To: <4AF9B6E1.7020807@jurislex.com>
References: <4AF9B6E1.7020807@jurislex.com>
Message-ID: <5C2C46B3-B441-4CCA-AEFF-AC8D7EECA28F@verizon.net>

This subpoena was issued 2 days after Obama was inaugurated and as  
far as I can tell he hadn't replaced many in the justice department  
so it is unclear to me whether this was a left over from Bush or  
something new.

It also asked for the records for one day back in 2008 so maybe they  
were trying to track down a particular poster.

The encouraging thing is that the  group fought back and they brought  
it to light these many months later.

Katie


On Nov 10, 2009, at 10:54 AM, Bob Browning wrote:

> The following is really scary and a clear indication of the dangers  
> of  the State Secrets  rules as currently applied!!
>
> bob "can't keep me quiet" browning
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>> Taking Liberties - CBS News Blog
>> November 10, 2009 12:01 AM
>> Justice Dept. Asked For News Site's Visitor Lists
>>
>> 173 comments
>> Posted by Declan McCullagh
>> <image693268x.jpg>
>> (AP / CBS)
>> In a case that raises questions about online journalism and  
>> privacy rights, the U.S. Department of Justice sent a formal  
>> request to an independent news site ordering it to provide details  
>> of all reader visits on a certain day.
>>
>> The grand jury subpoena also required the Philadelphia-based  
>> Indymedia.us Web site "not to disclose the existence of this  
>> request" unless authorized by the Justice Department, a gag order  
>> that presents an unusual quandary for any news organization.
>>
>> Kristina Clair, a 34-year old Linux administrator living in  
>> Philadelphia who provides free server space for Indymedia.us, said  
>> she was shocked to receive the Justice Department's subpoena. (The  
>> Independent Media Center is a left-of-center amalgamation of  
>> journalists and advocates that ? according to their principles of  
>> unity and mission statement ? work toward "promoting social and  
>> economic justice" and "social change.")
>>
>> The subpoena (PDF) from U.S. Attorney Tim Morrison in Indianapolis  
>> demanded "all IP traffic to and from www.indymedia.us" on June 25,  
>> 2008. It instructed Clair to "include IP addresses, times, and any  
>> other identifying information," including e-mail addresses,  
>> physical addresses, registered accounts, and Indymedia readers'  
>> Social Security Numbers, bank account numbers, credit card  
>> numbers, and so on.
>>
>> "I didn't think anything we were doing was worthy of any (federal)  
>> attention," Clair said in a telephone interview with CBSNews.com  
>> on Monday. After talking to other Indymedia volunteers, Clair  
>> ended up calling the Electronic Frontier Foundation in San  
>> Francisco, which represented her at no cost.
>>
>> Under long-standing Justice Department guidelines, subpoenas to  
>> members of the news media are supposed to receive special  
>> treatment. One portion of the guidelines, for instance, says that  
>> "no subpoena may be issued to any member of the news media"  
>> without "the express authorization of the attorney general" ? that  
>> would be current attorney general Eric Holder ? and subpoenas  
>> should be "directed at material information regarding a limited  
>> subject matter."
>>
>> Still unclear is what criminal investigation U.S. Attorney  
>> Morrison was pursuing. Last Friday, a spokeswoman initially  
>> promised a response, but Morrison sent e-mail on Monday evening  
>> saying: "We have no comment." The Justice Department in  
>> Washington, D.C. also declined to respond.
>>
>> Kevin Bankston, a senior staff attorney at the San Francisco-based  
>> Electronic Frontier Foundation, replied to the Justice Department  
>> on behalf of his client in a February 2009 letter (PDF) outlining  
>> what he described as a series of problems with the subpoena,  
>> including that it was not personally served, that a judge-issued  
>> court order would be required for the full logs, and that  
>> Indymedia did not store logs in the first place.
>>
>> Morrison replied in a one-sentence letter saying the subpoena had  
>> been withdrawn. Around the same time, according to the EFF, the  
>> group had a series of discussions with assistant U.S. attorneys in  
>> Morrison's office who threatened Clair with possible prosecution  
>> for obstruction of justice if she disclosed the existence of the  
>> already-withdrawn subpoena -- claiming it "may endanger someone's  
>> health" and would have a "human cost."
>>
>> Lucy Dalglish, the executive director of the Reporters Committee  
>> for Freedom of The Press, said a gag order to a news organization  
>> wouldn't stand up in court: "If you get a subpoena and you're a  
>> journalist, they can't gag you."
>>
>> Dalglish said that a subpoena being issued and withdrawn is not  
>> unprecedented. "I have seen any number of these things withdrawn  
>> when counsel for someone who is claiming a reporter's privilege  
>> says, 'Can you tell me the date you got approval from the attorney  
>> general's office'... I'm willing to chalk this up to bad lawyering  
>> on the part of the DOJ, or just not thinking."
>>
>> Making this investigation more mysterious is that Indymedia.us is  
>> an aggregation site, meaning articles that appear on it were  
>> published somewhere else first, and there's no hint about what  
>> sparked the criminal probe. Clair, the system administrator, says  
>> that no IP (Internet Protocol) addresses are recorded for  
>> Indymedia.us, and non-IP address logs are kept for a few weeks and  
>> then discarded.
>>
>> EFF's Bankston wrote a second letter to the government saying  
>> that, if it needed to muzzle Indymedia, it should apply for a gag  
>> order under the section of federal law that clearly permits such  
>> an order to be issued. Bankston's plan: To challenge that law on  
>> First Amendment grounds.
>>
>> But the Justice Department never replied. "This is the first time  
>> we've seen them try to get the IP address of everyone who visited  
>> a particular site," Bankston said. "That it was a news  
>> organization was an additional troubling fact that implicates  
>> First Amendment rights."
>>
>> This is not, however, the first time that the Feds have focused on  
>> Indymedia -- a Web site whose authors sometimes blur the line  
>> between journalism, advocacy, and on-the-streets activism. In  
>> 2004, the Justice Department sent a grand jury subpoena asking for  
>> information about who posted lists of Republican delegates while  
>> urging they be given an unwelcome reception at the party's  
>> convention in New York City that year. A Indymedia hosting service  
>> in Texas once received a subpoena asking for server logs in  
>> relation to an investigation of an attempted murder in Italy.
>>
>> Bankston has written a longer description of the exchange of  
>> letters with the Justice Department, which he hopes will raise  
>> awareness of how others should respond to similar legal demands  
>> for Web logs, customer records, and compulsory silence. "Our fear  
>> is that this kind of bogus gag order is much more common than one  
>> would hope, considering they're legally baseless," Bankston says.  
>> "We're telling this story in hopes that more providers will press  
>> back and go public when the government demands their silence."
>> Declan McCullagh is a correspondent for CBSNews.com. He can be  
>> reached at declan at cbsnews.com and can be followed on Twitter as  
>> declanm.
>> More from Taking Liberties and Opinion on CBSNews.com
>> Justice Dept. Asked For News Site's Visitor Lists
>> Judge Bans Twitter From Court
>> University Backs Away From New-Hire DNA Testing
>> Congress May Require ISPs To Block Fraudulent Web Sites
>> Maryland Judges Uphold State Anti-Handgun Law
>> Feds Try To Prop Up Home Prices, $729,750 At A Time
>> Seattle Sued Over Mayor's Anti-Gun Rules
>>
>> 1
>> 2
>> 3
>> 4
>> ...
>> 9
>> next
>> See all 173 Comments
>>
>> by randall22000 November 10, 2009 1:23 PM EST
>> Who should be surprised by this?? This Nobama NIC clown is nothing  
>> but a paranoid, nazi, who does not believe in freedom, period. How  
>> we got into this situation as a nation os absolutely beyond me. I  
>> just hope I live to see Nobama get his butt thrown out in 2012. fI  
>> will have the champagne ready!
>> Reply to this comment
>>
>>
>> by Lawyers-Guns-n-Money-01 November 10, 2009 1:16 PM EST
>> Wow, one final parting shot orchestrated by the Bush  
>> administration in order to ferret out opposition to the GOP. Man,  
>> talk about fascism at its worst. I mean going after a left wing  
>> site not once but TWICE?
>>
>> The really seedy issue is that he had his cronies wait until three  
>> days after Obama was sworn in to draw up the subpoena so it would  
>> seem to fall on the new administration.
>>
>> Imagine if the new AG requested IP addresses, et al from Fox News.  
>> The fake right would go BALLISTIC.
>> Reply to this comment
>>
>>
>> by brianpauljaus November 10, 2009 1:13 PM EST
>> BOYCOTT THE US MEDIA UNTIL THEY ACTUALLY COVER THIS ADMINISTRATION  
>> AGAIN
>> My fellow Americans. The time has come upon us to take back the  
>> press, the one free thing in America that is still the great  
>> equalizer. I am not a Republican nor Democrat.. I am an American.
>> The last two standing presidents , one Democrat and one  
>> Republican, endured equal scrutiny and aggression by the media.  
>> Both Presidents lived a daily whirl-wind of attacks and  
>> accusations from the media. Most often the media took control of  
>> press conferences and events and took the topic line completely  
>> away from whatever they were actually there to meet about simply  
>> to grill the President on what they wanted to talk about. They  
>> asked them questions 10 different ways till they were frustrated  
>> as could be. It was a difficult position for both men to be in and  
>> a stressful one to be sure. Yet they both endured it for 8 years a  
>> piece and managed to still do their jobs as Presidents. The media  
>> did not take a side and attacked both men, from different  
>> backgrounds and political parties? equally.
>> So why is it that our current President?s Administration gets  
>> almost no questions at all ? The media just sits there nicely and  
>> reports whatever benign tripe that the administration puts out.  
>> They never pressure him, never forced him like I watched them do  
>> through 16 years and 2 different political parties in the white  
>> house. He reports air and gives them lots of PR shots and they  
>> happily report it. And then they wonder why they no longer have  
>> revenues where they used to be and are crashing out.
>> So I say we contact our journalists, media outlets, and news  
>> providers in general and let them know that either they press the  
>> administration for answers and drill in on all the small but  
>> highly important things that are happening and treat this  
>> president with the ferocity they treated Bush AND Clinton or we  
>> will go to news sources that do. This is not a partisan statement,  
>> no matter what side of the fence you are on we all benefit from  
>> the media digging in and asking that extra question. If there is  
>> nothing to hide there is nothing to hide. No one has EVER grilled  
>> him on how he feels about Socialism. No one has ever grilled him  
>> about his true roadmap for the next 4 years and all the things he  
>> feels he must accomplish. No one has ever grilled him at all in fact.
>> Bottom line, cover this president the same way you covered the  
>> last two, or we will get our news somewhere else.
>> Reply to this comment
>>
>>
>> by timmeh60 November 10, 2009 1:08 PM EST
>> And you guys on the left complained about Bush listening in on  
>> converstations to and from Afghanistan. This is leftism at it's  
>> finest. These guys ARE intent on encroaching into our personal  
>> freedoms and it IS happening.
>> Reply to this comment
>>
>>
>> by RightWingInc November 10, 2009 12:58 PM EST
>> The ironic thing is that most Indymedia readers voted for Obama.  
>> How's that hope and change working out for you?
>>
>> http://www.RightWingInc.com
>> Anti-Liberal Stickers and T-Shirts
>> Reply to this comment
>>
>>
>> by Lawyers-Guns-n-Money-01 November 10, 2009 12:48 PM EST
>> by brianbwb-2009 November 10, 2009 11:51 AM EST
>> Lawyers-Guns-n-Money-01
>>
>> Oh, but he did my friend, and I quote,
>>
>> "One portion of the guidelines, for instance, says that "no  
>> subpoena may be issued to any member of the news media" without  
>> "the express authorization of the attorney general" ? that would  
>> be current attorney general Eric Holder-..."
>>
>> That is about as direct a lie as direct can get.
>> ===================================================================
>>
>>
>> It is rather misleading for the author to state as such.
>>
>> Now we have to discern who is authorized to sign for the AG. The  
>> subpoena was signed by an Assistant United States Attorney. Can  
>> the Deputy AG, an Assistant AG or an Associate AG act on their  
>> behalf?
>>
>> If so, Mr. McCullagh may have conferred that power to the  
>> personoage of the AG and not the office.
>> Reply to this comment
>>
>>
>> by Jasonn13 November 10, 2009 12:43 PM EST
>> Someone probably made a comment critical of our Dear Leader.
>> Reply to this comment
>>
>>
>> by phillyfanaticoldtimer November 10, 2009 12:38 PM EST
>> What an outrage! Once more this tyrannical socialist pacifist  
>> Government wants to silence opposition. Or what they deem is  
>> opposition. Their attack on Fox is not by accident. What next?  
>> Going after bloggers? How can CBS and the rest of the MSM kow tow  
>> to this statist WH and its Congressional minions in the Democrat  
>> Party? Time and again, these people try to either obivate the  
>> Constitution or evade it or downright suppress it. C'mon, liberal  
>> media outlets. Stand up for the 1st Amendment and stop lifting  
>> this faux Messiah to Godhood. He is a Chicago thug, period and his  
>> AG acts just like one.
>> Reply to this comment
>>
>>
>> by Lawyers-Guns-n-Money-01 November 10, 2009 1:00 PM EST
>> Except this was orchestrated under the Bush administration. They  
>> had a beef with this same organization in 2004. Read the subpoena.  
>> It was issued by a Mukasey appointee.
>>
>> Imagine if Obama actually DID request information like IP  
>> addresses and SSN's, you mouth breathers would do through the ROOF.
>>
>> But since it was a Bush crony, and that fact has now been pointed  
>> out to you. you'll probably five him a pass.
>>
>>
>> by Lawyers-Guns-n-Money-01 November 10, 2009 12:34 PM EST
>> by slowjelj November 10, 2009 11:18 AM EST
>> Lawyers-Guns-n-Money-01, huh, hate to point out the irony of you  
>> insisting that I read and then claim the original subpoena was  
>> dated June 25, 2008. WRONG! It requested information from June 25,  
>> 2008. So, justice would need to very swift (i.e. same day service)  
>> for the subpoena to be dated on the same day of the event for  
>> which it was issued.
>> =================================================================
>>
>> I stand corrected. Reading really IS fundamental.
>>
>> But trust me when I say it can take long stretches of time for a  
>> subpoena to be issued. We're not talking about a DA working a  
>> murder investigation that can wake up a judge in the middle of the  
>> night in the interest of time. There are procedures for getting  
>> this type of subpoena and we even know they were not followed.  
>> Just because a subpoena has a particular date on it does not mean  
>> it was researched, prepared, signed, sent and delivered on the  
>> same day. The subpoena was received by Ms. Clair on 30 Jan and it  
>> took until 13 Feb for her lawyer to respond. I imagine something  
>> this weighty would require an immediate response (within 3 days?)
>> Reply to this comment
>>
>>
>> by michaelp1 November 10, 2009 12:27 PM EST
>> JUST MORE GOVERNMENT TAKEOVER ! FREEDOM OF SPEECH ! WHEN WILL  
>> PEOPLE WAKE UP TO WHAT THE ELL IS GOING ON ! BANKS ! LARGE CORP !  
>> TAXES ! SOCIALIST MEDACINE TAKEOVER ! ALL GOV SOCIALIST  
>> TAKEOVERS ! TERRORISTS ALL OVER THE WHITE HOUSE ! IN OBAMAS BOOK  
>> HE MENTIONED THAT IF PUSH COMES TO SHOVE ! HE WILL TAKE THE MUSLIM  
>> SIDE. HIS BOOK ! REEAD HIS BOOKS AND FIND OUT ABOUT THE AMERICAN,  
>> WHITE, HATER !
>> Reply to this comment
>>
>>
>> by LeonardSkynard November 10, 2009 12:18 PM EST
>> Did any of you actually go to the web site and see what all of the  
>> hubub is about?
>>
>> Didn't think so. The person in question isn't a journalist. He  
>> replied to a story about activists who are against the  
>> construction of I69 in Indiana. He's a terrorist, who has (in this  
>> post) threatened people with physical violence, including family  
>> and children of private workers involved in the project, as well  
>> as admitting to taking part in an act of intimidation against a  
>> private firm. He included details that would implicate him.
>>
>> As always; the biggest hole in any civil rights case is the  
>> defendant.
>>
>> Here's an excerpt of what he said;
>> If you do not head this warning, we look forward to seeing you
>> again. Next time perhaps we will go to your homes, childrens
>> daycares, churches or wherever else you may happen to turn your
>> back. We'll be watching you. We are fighting for our lives while
>> you are greedily gaining dollar bills and further domination and
>> exploitation.
>>
>> Today in Evansville, Indiana, resistance is growing to fight
>> against the capitalist wet dream called I69. We visited the office
>> of Bernardin- Lockmueller and Associates, who are responsible for
>> planning the entire supposed route for the interstate. Seeing as
>> they've been targeted before, we attempted to enter with a nicely
>> dressed decoy. However, their fear took hold of them and they
>> immediatly pushed our comrade out and locked the doors. So we
>> banged on windows, and shouted at them through the intercom. In the
>> commotion a window was smashed. Which is nothing compared to the
>> destruction that i-69 will cause, but perhaps gave our enemy a
>> taste of the terror they force daily on the earth.
>>
>> Read it yourself;
>> http://indymedia.us/en/newswire/2008/6.shtml
>>
>> And then ask yourself if you really think there's legal  
>> protections in place to prevent prosecution of this individual.  
>> Name the Constitutional Right that is being violated here.
>> Reply to this comment
>>
>>
>> by Lawyers-Guns-n-Money-01 November 10, 2009 1:22 PM EST
>> The constitutional right being violated is the office of the USAG  
>> was casting a big net for one fish. They could have requested  
>> specific information instead of issuing a shotgun blast.
>>
>>
>> by pattyg70 November 10, 2009 12:11 PM EST
>> Perhaps the White House was just strolling for email contacts to  
>> foment their "community organizing" efforts. Or, maybe there was a  
>> video posted by a "right-wing extremist" (i.e. anyone that  
>> disagrees with Obama and they want to find out who did it so they  
>> know who to attack next).
>> >From Indymedia on June 25, 2008 (copied and pasted the following):
>> "IMC-US - 25 Jun 2008
>> Update from Indymedia Newsreal: Indymedia Newsreal, a monthly  
>> television series, brings progressive grassroots organizing, going  
>> on in your backyard, to a national television audience. Each  
>> program is comprised of segments submitted by video-makers  
>> throughout the world, and covers actions taken in local  
>> communities, by ordinary people, to address critical issues like  
>> air and water pollution, war, reproductive rights, homelessness,  
>> for-profit prisons, sweatshops, racism, police brutality,  
>> indigenous struggles, and more. Newsreal is a longstanding  
>> collaboration between the Independent Media Center and Free Speech  
>> TV, and is shown on Free Speech TV every first Thursday at 5pm  
>> PST. Read More about how you can participate | View July 2008  
>> Indymedia Newsreal"
>> Reply to this comment
>>
>>
>> by brianbwb-2009 November 10, 2009 12:19 PM EST
>> So they went from net to TV, cool, thanks for the heads up.
>>
>>
>> by clayton_cleverly November 10, 2009 12:10 PM EST
>> Not thrilled by this, but if the day in question had a  
>> particularly vitriolic post, perhaps one with an overt threat  
>> within it, I don't see a reason why this is particularly an issue.
>>
>> If they did it EVERY DAY, or simply wanted everyone's name, that's  
>> one thing. But asking for a specific day, sounds like a specific  
>> investigation.
>> Reply to this comment
>>
>>
>> by mra71 November 10, 2009 11:56 AM EST
>> If ever there was proof that we need a third party in this  
>> country, this is it. The Dems and Republicans are both rotten to  
>> the core and have no regard left for our Constitutional liberties.  
>> Bush = Obama. Meet the new boss; same as the old boss.
>> Reply to this comment
>>
>>
>> by brianbwb-2009 November 10, 2009 12:10 PM EST
>> A third party, even a fourth and fifth party will be just as  
>> corrupt, as they all need money to operate, and they raise their  
>> money through corruption.
>>
>>
>> by csmith85016 November 10, 2009 11:51 AM EST
>> By brianbwb-2009 November 10, 2009 10:55 AM EST:
>>
>> "Your theory is nothing but an excuse to continue the right wing  
>> anti-Obama agenda, and there is only one real reason for it."
>>
>> That Obama's a tool and you on the left are hypocrites?
>> Reply to this comment
>>
>>
>> by brianbwb-2009 November 10, 2009 12:07 PM EST
>> Obama is a tool, and anyone you choose will also be a tool.
>>
>> That is life.
>>
>> But as long as the tool is "White", you and your ilk have no  
>> problem with it, and this is why we will never be able to unite  
>> and defeat the tool handlers.
>>
>>
>> by slowjelj November 10, 2009 1:30 PM EST
>> brianbwb: are you black? I need to know so that I can add you to  
>> my "hate because they are black" category. If you are white, I  
>> could add you to my "hate because they are liberal" category. The  
>> difference is that in the former, I treat you with complete  
>> disdain while in the latter you get my full respect. Please advise.
>>
>>
>> by mmvale November 10, 2009 11:48 AM EST
>> Dear Publisher, Please print more books, about 400 million. The  
>> American people have forgotten my message.
>> from, G.Orwell,bigbrother.com
>> Reply to this comment
>>
>>
>> by brianbwb-2009 November 10, 2009 12:04 PM EST
>> csmith85016
>>
>> Reading is fundamental.
>>
>> My point was that the author of the article used very bad syntax  
>> when writing his article, making a statement that could not be  
>> possible according to the context in which he put it, i.e.,
>>
>> "The subpoena (PDF) from U.S. Attorney Tim Morrison in  
>> Indianapolis demanded "all IP traffic to and from  
>> www.indymedia.us" on June 25, 2008."
>>
>> Which he proceeds to then falsely ascribe to Holder, when Holder  
>> was not in office at the time of the subpoena. (Whose name is on  
>> the subpoena?)
>>
>> In short, he used incorrect information to arrive at his  
>> conclusion, and I questioned the reasons for it.
>>
>> The June 2008 point was simply a case, I realize I was remiss in  
>> leaving out the part that the site had ceased operations two  
>> months before the dates requested in the subpoena, but I believe I  
>> had made my point to those who wished to understand.
>>
>> I also used the dates to show that his placing blame on Holder was  
>> also incorrect, as Holder was not in office at the time of the  
>> issuance, the acting AG was Mark Filip, who served from 1/20/09 to  
>> 2/3/09, thus putting the issue date squarely under Mukasey's  
>> former deputy AG.
>>
>>
>> by brianbwb-2009 November 10, 2009 12:14 PM EST
>> Oh, and why was the syntax bad?
>>
>> Read the sentence,
>>
>> "The subpoena (PDF) from U.S. Attorney Tim Morrison in  
>> Indianapolis demanded "all IP traffic to and from  
>> www.indymedia.us" on June 25, 2008."
>>
>> ...then determine whether it requests information relevant to that  
>> date, or was issued on that date...
>>
>>
>> by csmith85016 November 10, 2009 11:48 AM EST
>> By brianbwb-2009 November 10, 2009 11:28 AM EST:
>>
>> "That was my original point, the acting AG was Mark Filip, former  
>> deputy AG under Robert Mukasey, who served from 1/20/09 to 2/3/09,  
>> when Holder was sworn in. The subpoena's date puts it squarely  
>> under Filip's watch, that buck stops there."
>>
>> Um, no, but how short memories (and the ability to just look back  
>> through these comments) are on the lib side. Your ORIGINAL point  
>> was that this subpoena was issued in June 2008. It wasn't. Nice  
>> try, though. You were wrong; the subpoena was issued in 2009. Now  
>> perhaps that was a "holdover" from the Bush administration, but  
>> that still doesn't make your ORIGINAL point that the subpoena was  
>> issued under Acting AG Filip. Maybe if you say it enough times you  
>> think it'll make it "true?"
>> Reply to this comment
>>
>>
>> by mmvale November 10, 2009 11:30 AM EST
>> The internet is the most wonderful idea, a precious gift for  
>> sharing and exploring ideas. It's what our founding fathers would  
>> celebrate when they wrote about freedom of speech. Let's keep it  
>> free and untouched by government, please.
>> Reply to this comment
>>
>>
>> by candhobbes November 10, 2009 11:28 AM EST
>> This is worse than the Bush administration! We need to fire these  
>> jackazzes immediately!! Everyone should encourage all their  
>> friends to not vote for any politician currently in office in all  
>> upcoming elections and vote for any politician who promises to  
>> fire these idiots!
>> Reply to this comment
>>
>>
>> by AgainstUnjustGovernment November 10, 2009 11:19 AM EST
>> I, too, would be considered a right wing extremist by the very DO 
>> [IN]J that did this to leftist lindy media. No doubt this kind of  
>> injustice is frequent in the government and I have no illusions  
>> that the same kind of thing did not occur in the Bush  
>> administration. The message is clear, whether Republican or  
>> Democrat, corruption and abuse of power is rampant in Washington.  
>> Until the branch of the government known as "We The People" gets  
>> angry enough to throw out the "Washington insiders" who consider  
>> politics a game without regard for their constituents, we can  
>> count on only bills that will ultimately screw us all, bankrupt  
>> the country, and insure that as few people as possible have jobs  
>> that can sustain us.
>> Reply to this comment
>>
>> 1
>> 2
>> 3
>> 4
>> ...
>> 9
>> next
>> See all 173 Comments
> Copyright ?2009 CBS Interactive Inc. All rights reserved
>
> <image693268x.jpg>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From hannah at teleport.com  Tue Nov 10 22:12:39 2009
From: hannah at teleport.com (Kristy Gravlin)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 00:12:39 -0600
Subject: [Grovenet] Teachers buy cheap kids books tomorrow, 11/11
In-Reply-To: <482443.92022.qm@web55603.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C71FB1F7.1115D%hannah@teleport.com>

Channel 6 just ran a crawler saying they are going to collect "stuff" for
Marysville school's needs. They were mentioning pencils, paper, crayons,
etc., but I know teachers would also be very pleased to have books. Didn't I
hear that this is a K-8 building? Even if "only" K-5 that covers a very wide
range of reading levels....You couldn't get them for a better price!!
Kristy


On 11/10/09 11:56 PM, "Alana Graham" <isis23ra at yahoo.com> wrote:

> NIce selection of children's books (.25 each) and teen/young adult (.50) books
> at the FG Library book sale which IS OPEN TOMORROW, Veteran's Day from 10 AM -
> 8 PM.
> ?
> Celebrate Veteran's Day by buying books and supporting your local library.
> ?
> Many thanks
> ?
> alana
> ?
> ?
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet




From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Tue Nov 10 22:20:50 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 22:20:50 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] digital TV question
In-Reply-To: Katie Allnutt <allnutt@verizon.net>'s message of Tue, 10 Nov
	2009 21:59:44 -0800
Message-ID: <29678-4AFA57C2-184@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>

I have Direct TV Satellite, and so far I have not had any problems of
any kind.
All of tv programs come out crystal clear all of the time....

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From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Tue Nov 10 22:57:45 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 22:57:45 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] Vatican looks to heavens for signs of alien life - MSNBC
	Articles
Message-ID: <29673-4AFA6069-507@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>

http://news.mobile.msn.com/en-us/articles.aspx?afid=1&aid=33838894

What Next?

-------------- next part --------------
http://news.mobile.msn.com/en-us/articles.aspx?afid=1&aid=33838894

From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Wed Nov 11 08:10:51 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 08:10:51 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] A Hosstyle Good Day For You
Message-ID: <4509-4AFAE20B-285@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>

Hi This Greeting Is Just For You - Good Morning :-
http://exclusives.250free.com/html3/mfabc.html

http://tinyurl.com/2b4z3r


From greenacres2 at verizon.net  Wed Nov 11 08:31:33 2009
From: greenacres2 at verizon.net (George and Jean Cushing)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 08:31:33 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] digital TV question
In-Reply-To: <728760.42391.qm@web112413.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <1256892576.24194.47.camel@Netty>
	<728760.42391.qm@web112413.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <021201ca62ec$6f279770$4d76c650$@net>

We tried two different interior antennas(cheep then expensive),  Including
putting the better interior antenna on the roof.  Finally bought a 90.00(
about) outdoor double loop antenna and put it on the roof  (one story) but
no obvious buildings between us and the west hills antennas.  That works
fairly good, very rarely breaks up, rain does not seem to effect it, holding
my breath for snow.  We took the better indoor to the other end of the house
(bedroom ,away from all the TVs stereos, DVD vcr and stuff)and it works
better, not great but better.

George.

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Vickie Madeoneup
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:03 PM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] digital TV question

I was wondering if digital TV has turned out to be what it was cracked up to
be for all of you?

For us, even though we are hooked up to an HD antenea and also a converter
box the TV is fairly poor.
It shuffles into it's digital pixels, gives a "no signal" message and then
goes back to the show.

This happens real often.

I just wanted to find out if this is happening to others.

Vickie



      
_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

__________ NOD32 4596 (20091111) Information __________

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com



From khourym at verizon.net  Wed Nov 11 09:01:26 2009
From: khourym at verizon.net (Martha Khoury)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 09:01:26 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] digital TV question
In-Reply-To: <021201ca62ec$6f279770$4d76c650$@net>
References: <1256892576.24194.47.camel@Netty>
	<728760.42391.qm@web112413.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<021201ca62ec$6f279770$4d76c650$@net>
Message-ID: <A4612E84-98B5-409E-80C4-39914DAED4A3@verizon.net>

We are having an awful time. We have purchased two different antennas  
to little avail. We are thinking about getting basic cable to  
alleviate the problem, but do not want the monthly bill.

>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com]  
> On
> Behalf Of Vickie Madeoneup
> Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:03 PM
> To: Forest Grove local interests list
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] digital TV question
>
> I was wondering if digital TV has turned out to be what it was  
> cracked up to
> be for all of you?
>
> For us, even though we are hooked up to an HD antenea and also a  
> converter
> box the TV is fairly poor.
> It shuffles into it's digital pixels, gives a "no signal" message  
> and then
> goes back to the show.
>
> This happens real often.
>
> I just wanted to find out if this is happening to others.
>
> Vickie
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
> __________ NOD32 4596 (20091111) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From hannah at teleport.com  Wed Nov 11 09:11:42 2009
From: hannah at teleport.com (Kristy Gravlin)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 11:11:42 -0600
Subject: [Grovenet] digital TV question
In-Reply-To: <003c01ca62d8$26283e30$7278ba90$@net>
Message-ID: <C7204C6E.11191%hannah@teleport.com>

>From my daughter who is good at "research" problems, this not so encouraging
information: 

Well, assuming that most on grovenet are in the same situation, out in the
banks/FG area, I would assume they have the same problems. You may have a
converter box but from what I understand you will probably need a good,
tall, outdoor antenna. [K: I have an old, small antenna, on the end of the
garage 
that probably comes no where near clearing the ridge of the house itself...
and that?s the direction where the towers must be.] The area you are in is
probably too far from the towers, too tree'y, and too bumpy. This is a
problem 
for many people. Honestly, I don't know how good our reception here [about
55 miles
west of Chicago] would be here without the cable [that they have]. When I go
to the 
government site they estimate reception based on having an antennae 30'
above ground, 
which I don't have.

Plus there are other problems which are unique to digital signals. You may
be
receiving weak signals but, because it?s digital, they won't come in.
Digital
is on or off. No fuzzy, almost sort of, reception like you used to have.

Both of these links seem good/interesting: <http://www.dtv.gov/topfaqs.html>
and
<http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2009-03-02-digital-tv-reception_N.htm>

End solution for that house is to get a service like satelite, cable, or DSL
or to get a larger outdoor antennae. I don't think there is any other way
that you will get any decent reception just because of the nature of digital
signals.

hg


-----Original Message-----
From: Kristy Gravlin
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] digital TV question


I thought it was "just" because I am 5 miles west of Banks, in the woods,
with a very old, not very high-up antenna. But the symptoms are very much
the same. Some channels come in a lot better than others. I spend almost
every day watching (I use the term loosely, but do like something on while I
type) Qubo cartoons. They are good as cartoons go...but I'd like more
choices than cartoons, paid programming, and religious programs of every
ilk. I might be able to tolerate more of the "picture pixels" if it wasn't
also "voice pixels" which are VERY hard to listen to. I get a lot more
channels than before the marvelous box that was to make my life better...but
cannot depend upon seeing the three main channels...or nearly any other one
either.

I'll be interested in what others have to say.  Kristy



On 11/10/09 11:02 PM, "Vickie Madeoneup" <whatsupy2k at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I was wondering if digital TV has turned out to be what it was cracked up
to
> be for all of you?
> 
> For us, even though we are hooked up to an HD antenea and also a converter
box
> the TV is fairly poor.
> It shuffles into it's digital pixels, gives a "no signal" message and then
> goes back to the show.
> 
> This happens real often.
> 
> I just wanted to find out if this is happening to others.
> 
> Vickie
> 
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



------ End of Forwarded Message


From allnutt at verizon.net  Wed Nov 11 09:26:25 2009
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 09:26:25 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] digital TV question
In-Reply-To: <021201ca62ec$6f279770$4d76c650$@net>
References: <1256892576.24194.47.camel@Netty>
	<728760.42391.qm@web112413.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<021201ca62ec$6f279770$4d76c650$@net>
Message-ID: <F107C77B-1789-4AE7-AC4A-32A4CAD4A67A@verizon.net>

The real question we should be asking is not whether we are liking  
the new system for TV viewing because that was not the target of the  
change. The target was to get better communications for first  
responders and to give more band width to other users (especially  
military if I remember correctly).  And to do this hopefully without  
screwing up TV viewing too completely.
The only way we will truly know whether the whole scheme worked is to  
wait until the next emergency happens, see if the appropriate folks  
were able to upgrade their equipment in time, and determine if the  
response was likely better than it would have been if we hadn't all  
made the digital switch. (Impossible to measure of course but  
endlessly fascinating to argue.)

And of course there are the new options for other digital  
communications that went with it. Weren't there supposed to be more  
commercial uses like expanded cell phone coverage and more ways to  
use your cell phones to transmit data. I've seen tons of ads for  
every app on every phone out there so maybe the money making aspect  
of going digital has been a success too.

As a low end user I've had other issues that bug me too. I know this  
is petty and I could of course get a different clock, but we no  
longer route the TV signal through the VHS player because you can't  
record digital on VHS. But our player had the ability to figure out  
what time it was from the signal. So now the VHS clock reads  
"------". And there is no other clock in the room. (I also read in  
that room since it has the most comfy chairs and that is when the  
clock would be handy because a lot of time can fly by when you are  
reading a good book.)  Just one of those little irritants that make  
me try to be thankful that we were doing something for the greater  
good and hoping that it does turn out that way in the long run.

I think they did a pretty good sales job in telling us our picture  
would be better and we would have more channels but they also did a  
good job in down playing the part that we might not be able to get  
the signal at all. I think that the missing signals are a bigger  
problem that they expected them to be.  To fix it will take some  
heavy lobbying and we don't have effective lobbyists for ordinary  
consumers.  Call the channels you like but don't get any longer. See  
if they can use their power to lobby for sending out a stronger  
signal.  They will of course ask you to call your representative,  
which is easy to do, but they will have to hear that people do want  
their channel to make it worth their while to complain as well.

Katie

>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet- 
> bounces at rdrop.com] On
> Behalf Of Vickie Madeoneup
> Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:03 PM
> To: Forest Grove local interests list
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] digital TV question
>
> I was wondering if digital TV has turned out to be what it was  
> cracked up to
> be for all of you?
>
> For us, even though we are hooked up to an HD antenea and also a  
> converter
> box the TV is fairly poor.
> It shuffles into it's digital pixels, gives a "no signal" message  
> and then
> goes back to the show.
>
> This happens real often.
>
> I just wanted to find out if this is happening to others.
>
> Vickie
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
> __________ NOD32 4596 (20091111) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From Jamsm at aol.com  Wed Nov 11 09:24:29 2009
From: Jamsm at aol.com (Jamsm at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 12:24:29 EST
Subject: [Grovenet] digital TV question
Message-ID: <d39.5c7367ba.382c4d4d@aol.com>


So you have a "very OLD  antenna" -  you need more than a  converter box!
 
Step one: BUY a digital antenna
Step two: have a professional install the antenna -  the  installer should 
check signal strength and properly align direction for  best signal for your 
preferred channels.
 
 
Good luck


-----Original Message-----
From: Kristy  Gravlin
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] digital TV question


I thought it  was "just" because I am 5 miles west of Banks, in the woods,
with a very old,  not very high-up antenna. But the symptoms are very much
the same. Some  channels come in a lot better than others. I spend almost
every day watching  (I use the term loosely, but do like something on while 
I
type) Qubo  cartoons. They are good as cartoons go...but I'd like more
choices than  cartoons, paid programming, and religious programs of every
ilk. I might be  able to tolerate more of the "picture pixels" if it wasn't
also "voice  pixels" which are VERY hard to listen to. I get a lot more
channels than  before the marvelous box that was to make my life 
better...but
cannot depend  upon seeing the three main channels...or nearly any other  
one
either.

I'll be interested in what others have to say.   Kristy




From allnutt at verizon.net  Wed Nov 11 09:30:28 2009
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 09:30:28 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] digital TV question
In-Reply-To: <A4612E84-98B5-409E-80C4-39914DAED4A3@verizon.net>
References: <1256892576.24194.47.camel@Netty>
	<728760.42391.qm@web112413.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<021201ca62ec$6f279770$4d76c650$@net>
	<A4612E84-98B5-409E-80C4-39914DAED4A3@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <4B5D54B6-F4AE-48E0-BD3C-0B822EF8E186@verizon.net>

Hmmm.
You are only a few blocks from us and you have a two story house like  
us, so this is interesting. When you stand on the roof and look  
toward Portland's West Hills, is there a big tree in the way?

Katie

On Nov 11, 2009, at 9:01 AM, Martha Khoury wrote:

> We are having an awful time. We have purchased two different antennas
> to little avail. We are thinking about getting basic cable to
> alleviate the problem, but do not want the monthly bill.
>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com]
>> On
>> Behalf Of Vickie Madeoneup
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:03 PM
>> To: Forest Grove local interests list
>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] digital TV question
>>
>> I was wondering if digital TV has turned out to be what it was
>> cracked up to
>> be for all of you?
>>
>> For us, even though we are hooked up to an HD antenea and also a
>> converter
>> box the TV is fairly poor.
>> It shuffles into it's digital pixels, gives a "no signal" message
>> and then
>> goes back to the show.
>>
>> This happens real often.
>>
>> I just wanted to find out if this is happening to others.
>>
>> Vickie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>
>> __________ NOD32 4596 (20091111) Information __________
>>
>> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
>> http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From khourym at verizon.net  Wed Nov 11 09:36:56 2009
From: khourym at verizon.net (Martha Khoury)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 09:36:56 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] digital TV question
In-Reply-To: <4B5D54B6-F4AE-48E0-BD3C-0B822EF8E186@verizon.net>
References: <1256892576.24194.47.camel@Netty>
	<728760.42391.qm@web112413.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<021201ca62ec$6f279770$4d76c650$@net>
	<A4612E84-98B5-409E-80C4-39914DAED4A3@verizon.net>
	<4B5D54B6-F4AE-48E0-BD3C-0B822EF8E186@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <35C06F93-37E2-4437-BB1B-748BFD042EEE@verizon.net>

This is Forest Grove....there are lots of big trees. Which is, of  
course, one reason we love it here. --M

On Nov 11, 2009, at 9:30 AM, Katie Allnutt wrote:

> Hmmm.
> You are only a few blocks from us and you have a two story house like
> us, so this is interesting. When you stand on the roof and look
> toward Portland's West Hills, is there a big tree in the way?
>
> Katie
>
> On Nov 11, 2009, at 9:01 AM, Martha Khoury wrote:
>
>> We are having an awful time. We have purchased two different antennas
>> to little avail. We are thinking about getting basic cable to
>> alleviate the problem, but do not want the monthly bill.
>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com]
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Vickie Madeoneup
>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:03 PM
>>> To: Forest Grove local interests list
>>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] digital TV question
>>>
>>> I was wondering if digital TV has turned out to be what it was
>>> cracked up to
>>> be for all of you?
>>>
>>> For us, even though we are hooked up to an HD antenea and also a
>>> converter
>>> box the TV is fairly poor.
>>> It shuffles into it's digital pixels, gives a "no signal" message
>>> and then
>>> goes back to the show.
>>>
>>> This happens real often.
>>>
>>> I just wanted to find out if this is happening to others.
>>>
>>> Vickie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GroveNet mailing list
>>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>>
>>> __________ NOD32 4596 (20091111) Information __________
>>>
>>> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
>>> http://www.eset.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GroveNet mailing list
>>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From whatsupy2k at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 11 09:37:51 2009
From: whatsupy2k at yahoo.com (Vickie Madeoneup)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 09:37:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Grovenet] digital TV question
In-Reply-To: <C7204C6E.11191%hannah@teleport.com>
References: <C7204C6E.11191%hannah@teleport.com>
Message-ID: <312753.79027.qm@web112401.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

just to add a final factor

I DO have a tall antennae on my roof.
We got the recommendation from the digital people and bought the HD
huge antennae. We still have those problems even though we have that
antennae.

It seems to me, a very long long time ago that when paid cable TV came out it's big selling point was no commercials.You still pay for cable but they certainly do have commercials.
Even though there were multiple reasons for the government requiring the digital service, from a TV consumer point of view, it failed.

We can not get cable in our area even if I wanted it and I didn't really want to resort to paying for TV through a dish company. I guess I am spoiled by our old analog system of TV that was paid for through commercials.

Vickie

________________________________





________________________________
From: Kristy Gravlin <hannah at teleport.com>
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Wed, November 11, 2009 9:11:42 AM
Subject: [Grovenet] digital TV question

>From my daughter who is good at "research" problems, this not so encouraging
information: 

Well, assuming that most on grovenet are in the same situation, out in the
banks/FG area, I would assume they have the same problems. You may have a
converter box but from what I understand you will probably need a good,
tall, outdoor antenna. [K: I have an old, small antenna, on the end of the
garage 
that probably comes no where near clearing the ridge of the house itself...
and that?s the direction where the towers must be.] The area you are in is
probably too far from the towers, too tree'y, and too bumpy. This is a
problem 
for many people. Honestly, I don't know how good our reception here [about
55 miles
west of Chicago] would be here without the cable [that they have]. When I go
to the 
government site they estimate reception based on having an antennae 30'
above ground, 
which I don't have.

Plus there are other problems which are unique to digital signals. You may
be
receiving weak signals but, because it?s digital, they won't come in.
Digital
is on or off. No fuzzy, almost sort of, reception like you used to have.

Both of these links seem good/interesting: <http://www.dtv.gov/topfaqs.html>
and
<http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2009-03-02-digital-tv-reception_N.htm>

End solution for that house is to get a service like satelite, cable, or DSL
or to get a larger outdoor antennae. I don't think there is any other way
that you will get any decent reception just because of the nature of digital
signals.

hg


-----Original Message-----
From: Kristy Gravlin
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] digital TV question


I thought it was "just" because I am 5 miles west of Banks, in the woods,
with a very old, not very high-up antenna. But the symptoms are very much
the same. Some channels come in a lot better than others. I spend almost
every day watching (I use the term loosely, but do like something on while I
type) Qubo cartoons. They are good as cartoons go...but I'd like more
choices than cartoons, paid programming, and religious programs of every
ilk. I might be able to tolerate more of the "picture pixels" if it wasn't
also "voice pixels" which are VERY hard to listen to. I get a lot more
channels than before the marvelous box that was to make my life better...but
cannot depend upon seeing the three main channels...or nearly any other one
either.

I'll be interested in what others have to say.  Kristy



On 11/10/09 11:02 PM, "Vickie Madeoneup" <whatsupy2k at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I was wondering if digital TV has turned out to be what it was cracked up
to
> be for all of you?
> 
> For us, even though we are hooked up to an HD antenea and also a converter
box
> the TV is fairly poor.
> It shuffles into it's digital pixels, gives a "no signal" message and then
> goes back to the show.
> 
> This happens real often.
> 
> I just wanted to find out if this is happening to others.
> 
> Vickie
> 
> 
> 
>      
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



------ End of Forwarded Message

_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



      

From Jamsm at aol.com  Wed Nov 11 09:42:50 2009
From: Jamsm at aol.com (Jamsm at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 12:42:50 EST
Subject: [Grovenet] digital TV question
Message-ID: <d6a.53877f55.382c519a@aol.com>

You have the ability to record on your VHS, just feed the signal from the  
converter box to the old VHS recorder.. You will not be able to watch one  
channel and record a second unless you buy additional converter boxes.   
[Read your manual how to set the clock on the device - it is easy to do - then  
you won't have flashing '-- -- --']
 
Improved picture quality comes with newer TVs;  your old  4:3  analog TV 
will still have the old picture quality!
 
Converter (turned on and set to channel you wish to record)  (output  )>>>> 
(input) VHS(set to channel that converter box outputs, likely  3 or 4)  
(output) >>>(input) TV (if recording when you are away,  TV can be off; to 
view, set TV to channel 3 or 4 as you normally would with  VHS player)
Cheers
 
 
 
In a message dated 11/11/2009 12:27:02 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
allnutt at verizon.net writes:

The real  question we should be asking is not whether we are liking  
the new  system for TV viewing because that was not the target of the  
change.  The target was to get better communications for first  
responders and  to give more band width to other users (especially  
military if I  remember correctly).  And to do this hopefully without  
screwing  up TV viewing too completely.
The only way we will truly know whether the  whole scheme worked is to  
wait until the next emergency happens, see  if the appropriate folks  
were able to upgrade their equipment in  time, and determine if the  
response was likely better than it would  have been if we hadn't all  
made the digital switch. (Impossible to  measure of course but  
endlessly fascinating to argue.)

And of  course there are the new options for other digital  
communications  that went with it. Weren't there supposed to be more  
commercial uses  like expanded cell phone coverage and more ways to  
use your cell  phones to transmit data. I've seen tons of ads for  
every app on  every phone out there so maybe the money making aspect  
of going  digital has been a success too.

As a low end user I've had other issues  that bug me too. I know this  
is petty and I could of course get a  different clock, but we no  
longer route the TV signal through the  VHS player because you can't  
record digital on VHS. But our player  had the ability to figure out  
what time it was from the signal. So  now the VHS clock reads  
"------". And there is no other clock in the  room. (I also read in  
that room since it has the most comfy chairs  and that is when the  
clock would be handy because a lot of time can  fly by when you are  
reading a good book.)  Just one of those  little irritants that make  
me try to be thankful that we were doing  something for the greater  
good and hoping that it does turn out that  way in the long run.

I think they did a pretty good sales job in  telling us our picture  
would be better and we would have more  channels but they also did a  
good job in down playing the part that  we might not be able to get  
the signal at all. I think that the  missing signals are a bigger  
problem that they expected them to  be.  To fix it will take some  
heavy lobbying and we don't have  effective lobbyists for ordinary  
consumers.  Call the channels  you like but don't get any longer. See  
if they can use their power  to lobby for sending out a stronger  
signal.  They will of  course ask you to call your representative,  
which is easy to do, but  they will have to hear that people do want  
their channel to make it  worth their while to complain as  well.

Katie

>


From whatsupy2k at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 11 09:50:57 2009
From: whatsupy2k at yahoo.com (Vickie Madeoneup)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 09:50:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Grovenet] digital TV question
In-Reply-To: <CE63F60A-39FD-448C-966C-DE56635F3F9E@verizon.net>
References: <1256892576.24194.47.camel@Netty>
	<728760.42391.qm@web112413.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<CE63F60A-39FD-448C-966C-DE56635F3F9E@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <165404.33698.qm@web112412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

David

I had to chuckle because I don't think I've ever seen you post a one word response before.

Vickie





________________________________
From: David Morelli <jo.david at verizon.net>
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Tue, November 10, 2009 9:34:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] digital TV question

Yes.

On Nov 10, 2009, at 9:02 PM, Vickie Madeoneup wrote:

> I was wondering if digital TV has turned out to be what it was cracked up to be for all of you?
> 
> For us, even though we are hooked up to an HD antenea and also a converter box the TV is fairly poor.
> It shuffles into it's digital pixels, gives a "no signal" message and then goes back to the show.
> 
> This happens real often.
> 
> I just wanted to find out if this is happening to others.
> 
> Vickie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



      

From edavie at verizon.net  Wed Nov 11 10:07:56 2009
From: edavie at verizon.net (Ed Davie)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 10:07:56 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] digital TV question
References: <d39.5c7367ba.382c4d4d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <7F74C65A5D6D46C18BCCEC458D729235@700x>

There is no such thing as a digital antenna!
Ed


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Jamsm at aol.com>
To: <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] digital TV question


>
> So you have a "very OLD  antenna" -  you need more than a  converter box!
>
> Step one: BUY a digital antenna
> Step two: have a professional install the antenna -  the  installer should
> check signal strength and properly align direction for  best signal for 
> your
> preferred channels.
>
>
> Good luck
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kristy  Gravlin
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] digital TV question
>
>
> I thought it  was "just" because I am 5 miles west of Banks, in the woods,
> with a very old,  not very high-up antenna. But the symptoms are very much
> the same. Some  channels come in a lot better than others. I spend almost
> every day watching  (I use the term loosely, but do like something on 
> while
> I
> type) Qubo  cartoons. They are good as cartoons go...but I'd like more
> choices than  cartoons, paid programming, and religious programs of every
> ilk. I might be  able to tolerate more of the "picture pixels" if it 
> wasn't
> also "voice  pixels" which are VERY hard to listen to. I get a lot more
> channels than  before the marvelous box that was to make my life
> better...but
> cannot depend  upon seeing the three main channels...or nearly any other
> one
> either.
>
> I'll be interested in what others have to say.   Kristy
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> 



From greenacres2 at verizon.net  Wed Nov 11 10:52:27 2009
From: greenacres2 at verizon.net (George and Jean Cushing)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 10:52:27 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] digital TV question
References: <1256892576.24194.47.camel@Netty>
	<728760.42391.qm@web112413.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <023c01ca6300$1ddef020$599cd060$@net>



-----Original Message-----
From: George and Jean Cushing [mailto:greenacres2 at verizon.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 8:32 AM
To: 'Forest Grove local interests list'
Subject: RE: [Grovenet] digital TV question

We tried two different interior antennas(cheep then expensive),  Including
putting the better interior antenna on the roof.  Finally bought a 90.00(
about) outdoor double loop antenna and put it on the roof  (one story) but
no obvious buildings between us and the west hills antennas.  That works
fairly good, very rarely breaks up, rain does not seem to effect it, holding
my breath for snow.  We took the better indoor to the other end of the house
(bedroom ,away from all the TVs stereos, DVD vcr and stuff)and it works
better, not great but better.

George.

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Vickie Madeoneup
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:03 PM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] digital TV question

I was wondering if digital TV has turned out to be what it was cracked up to
be for all of you?

For us, even though we are hooked up to an HD antenea and also a converter
box the TV is fairly poor.
It shuffles into it's digital pixels, gives a "no signal" message and then
goes back to the show.

This happens real often.

I just wanted to find out if this is happening to others.

Vickie



      
_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

__________ NOD32 4596 (20091111) Information __________

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com



From Jamsm at aol.com  Wed Nov 11 11:12:12 2009
From: Jamsm at aol.com (Jamsm at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 14:12:12 EST
Subject: [Grovenet] digital TV question
Message-ID: <d31.5b542a12.382c668c@aol.com>

You are stuck on just the spectrum.
The new (better) digital antennas have a higher gain for receiving the  
signals for digital TV.
Sure you can use an old antenna and receive more  signals than you use. You 
can also use a piece of wire.
OR - you can buy a  high quality digital antenna that will have more gain 
for the frequencies you  are interested in.sample: 
_http://www.antennasdirect.com/index.html?_s_ref=r49PbgH1S&kw=antenna&creative=3788415709&gclid=CKjmiI7
Sg54CFYJx5Qod0Qz1ow_ 
(http://www.antennasdirect.com/index.html?_s_ref=r49PbgH1S&kw=antenna&creative=3788415709&gclid=CKjmiI7Sg54CFYJx5Qod0Qz1ow) 

Again for an optimum signal BUY a new antenna designed for the  frequencies 
that you desire to receive.
 
At the time of the bandwidth loan, Congress set year-end 2006 as the date  
when analog service would officially cease and the extra channels would be  
"returned." At that point, the digital channels, with their low interference 
 characteristics, could be repacked into less bandwidth--a swath between 54 
and  698 MHz. 
The move would free 108 MHz of spectrum--the upper end of the UHF  band, or 
TV channels 52 to 69--for other uses. To put the potential value of  that 
108 MHz in perspective, note that the entire AM radio spectrum is less than  
1.2 MHz. All local area networks using IEEE 802.11b and 802.11g, the most 
common  forms of Wi-Fi, occupy just 83.5 MHz. Congress looked forward to a 
lucrative  spectrum auction to help balance the federal budget.
 
references:  suggest you read the complete article and search web for  
additional information.
you might want to study antenna design too.
 
_http://spectrum.ieee.org/consumer-electronics/audiovideo/the-dawn-of-digita
l-tv_ 
(http://spectrum.ieee.org/consumer-electronics/audiovideo/the-dawn-of-digital-tv) 
 
 
_http://www.howstuffworks.com/radio-spectrum.htm_ 
(http://www.howstuffworks.com/radio-spectrum.htm) 
 
_http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/dtv.htm_ 
(http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/dtv.htm) 
 
_http://search.aol.com/aol/search?s_it=topsearchbox.search&q=TV+radio+spectr
um+digital_ 
(http://search.aol.com/aol/search?s_it=topsearchbox.search&q=TV+radio+spectrum+digital) 
 
_http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/214962.pdf_ 
(http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/214962.pdf)  
 
The old spectrum chart - complete
_http://www.ntia.doc.gov/osmhome/allochrt.PDF_ 
(http://www.ntia.doc.gov/osmhome/allochrt.PDF) 
 
 
 
In a message dated 11/11/2009 1:26:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
edavie at verizon.net writes:

No such thing as an analog antenna either!
I think you will find that the new spectrum is mostly  included in the old 
one. Only split up more.
Ed

----- Original Message ----- 
From:  _Jamsm at aol.com_ (mailto:Jamsm at aol.com)   
To: _edavie at verizon.net_ (mailto:edavie at verizon.net)  
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009  10:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] digital TV  question


THE KEY Words... proper spectrum
old analog TV used a different frequency and different method of  sending 
the data on that signal.
The new HD digital signals require a NEW antenna to properly  receive the 
signal at maximum strength!
You could also just string a wire around the yard and you might be able  to 
get a better  signal than the old analog TV antenna does.
 
isn't partial ignorance bliss
 
 
In a message dated 11/11/2009 1:18:05 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
edavie at verizon.net writes:

I repeat. There is no such thing as a  digital antenna! Any antenna 
designed for the proper spectrum should  work.
Ed
 
____________________________________


----- Original Message ----- 
From:  _Jamsm at aol.com_ (mailto:Jamsm at aol.com)  
To: _edavie at verizon.net_ (mailto:edavie at verizon.net)  
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009  10:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] digital TV  question


Love it !

_http://www.dtvanswers.com/dtv_antenna.html_ 
(http://www.dtvanswers.com/dtv_antenna.html) 
 
 
In a message dated 11/11/2009 1:08:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
_edavie at verizon.net_ (mailto:edavie at verizon.net)  writes:

There is no such thing as a digital  antenna!
Ed


----- Original Message ----- 
From:  <_Jamsm at aol.com_ (mailto:Jamsm at aol.com) >
To: <_grovenet at rdrop.com_ (mailto:grovenet at rdrop.com) >
Sent:  Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet]  digital TV question


>
> So you have a "very  OLD  antenna" -  you need more than a  converter  
box!
>
> Step one: BUY a digital antenna
> Step two:  have a professional install the antenna -  the  installer  
should
> check signal strength and properly align direction  for  best signal for 
> your
> preferred  channels.
>
>
> Good luck
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
> From: Kristy  Gravlin
>  Subject: Re: [Grovenet] digital TV question
>
>
> I  thought it  was "just" because I am 5 miles west of Banks, in the  
woods,
> with a very old,  not very high-up antenna. But  the symptoms are very 
much
> the same. Some  channels come  in a lot better than others. I spend almost
> every day  watching  (I use the term loosely, but do like something on  
> while
> I
> type) Qubo  cartoons. They are  good as cartoons go...but I'd like more
> choices than   cartoons, paid programming, and religious programs of every
>  ilk. I might be  able to tolerate more of the "picture pixels" if  it 
> wasn't
> also "voice  pixels" which are VERY  hard to listen to. I get a lot more
> channels than  before  the marvelous box that was to make my life
>  better...but
> cannot depend  upon seeing the three main  channels...or nearly any other
> one
>  either.
>
> I'll be interested in what others have to  say.   Kristy
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
> GroveNet  mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>  http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>  


_______________________________________________
GroveNet  mailing  list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet









From allnutt at verizon.net  Wed Nov 11 11:56:18 2009
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 11:56:18 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] Big trees and antennas
In-Reply-To: <35C06F93-37E2-4437-BB1B-748BFD042EEE@verizon.net>
References: <1256892576.24194.47.camel@Netty>
	<728760.42391.qm@web112413.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<021201ca62ec$6f279770$4d76c650$@net>
	<A4612E84-98B5-409E-80C4-39914DAED4A3@verizon.net>
	<4B5D54B6-F4AE-48E0-BD3C-0B822EF8E186@verizon.net>
	<35C06F93-37E2-4437-BB1B-748BFD042EEE@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <A029B240-1612-4865-B637-32AC3B02CE37@verizon.net>

Hi Martha,
   Big trees make for great neighborhoods and they are lovely. I was  
just thinking that the difference between your situation and mine  
might be that you could have a big tree right smack in the way. When  
we hooked up the new antenna we took a compass to aim the antenna the  
right direction and we noted that one big tree was just to the left  
and one big tree was just to the right but it was a straight line of  
sight to the transmitters in the west hills.
    I was thinking maybe your antenna would do better one end of the  
house vs the other end, depending on the tree alignment.  We were  
just lucky that 100 years ago somebody planted the oaks in the right  
place, and if we had to move the antenna mount we probably would  
consider just giving up TV rather than pay for cable.

On Nov 11, 2009, at 9:36 AM, Martha Khoury wrote:

> This is Forest Grove....there are lots of big trees. Which is, of
> course, one reason we love it here. --M
>
> On Nov 11, 2009, at 9:30 AM, Katie Allnutt wrote:
>
>> Hmmm.
>> You are only a few blocks from us and you have a two story house like
>> us, so this is interesting. When you stand on the roof and look
>> toward Portland's West Hills, is there a big tree in the way?
>>
>> Katie
>>
>> On Nov 11, 2009, at 9:01 AM, Martha Khoury wrote:
>>
>>> We are having an awful time. We have purchased two different  
>>> antennas
>>> to little avail. We are thinking about getting basic cable to
>>> alleviate the problem, but do not want the monthly bill.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet- 
>>>> bounces at rdrop.com]
>>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of Vickie Madeoneup
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:03 PM
>>>> To: Forest Grove local interests list
>>>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] digital TV question
>>>>
>>>> I was wondering if digital TV has turned out to be what it was
>>>> cracked up to
>>>> be for all of you?
>>>>
>>>> For us, even though we are hooked up to an HD antenea and also a
>>>> converter
>>>> box the TV is fairly poor.
>>>> It shuffles into it's digital pixels, gives a "no signal" message
>>>> and then
>>>> goes back to the show.
>>>>
>>>> This happens real often.
>>>>
>>>> I just wanted to find out if this is happening to others.
>>>>
>>>> Vickie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GroveNet mailing list
>>>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>>>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>>>
>>>> __________ NOD32 4596 (20091111) Information __________
>>>>
>>>> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
>>>> http://www.eset.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GroveNet mailing list
>>>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>>>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GroveNet mailing list
>>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From edavie at verizon.net  Wed Nov 11 13:04:32 2009
From: edavie at verizon.net (Ed Davie)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:04:32 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] digital TV question
References: <d31.5b542a12.382c668c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <7BD5FDEC6E564A328F272208B15639CB@700x>

They give them different names but they are still the same antennas as 
before. The technology may have improved but they are NOT digital antennas!
Ed

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Jamsm at aol.com>
To: <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] digital TV question


> You are stuck on just the spectrum.
> The new (better) digital antennas have a higher gain for receiving the
> signals for digital TV.
> Sure you can use an old antenna and receive more  signals than you use. 
> You
> can also use a piece of wire.
> OR - you can buy a  high quality digital antenna that will have more gain
> for the frequencies you  are interested in.sample:
> _http://www.antennasdirect.com/index.html?_s_ref=r49PbgH1S&kw=antenna&creative=3788415709&gclid=CKjmiI7
> Sg54CFYJx5Qod0Qz1ow_
> (http://www.antennasdirect.com/index.html?_s_ref=r49PbgH1S&kw=antenna&creative=3788415709&gclid=CKjmiI7Sg54CFYJx5Qod0Qz1ow)
>
> 



From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Wed Nov 11 13:12:46 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:12:46 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] digital TV question
In-Reply-To: Jamsm@aol.com's message of Wed, 11 Nov 2009 14:12:12 EST
Message-ID: <4510-4AFB28CE-540@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>

$39.99 per month via DirecTV Satellite will eliminate all the problems
everyone seems to having, of which I've not had any of.  I've had this
since 1997 when I moved up here from Mountain Dale.... Van Dyke set me
up with it, because they said it would be better that any antenna, and
bot-o-boy were they right.
However, a good friend of mind who lives at Hillsdale Rd, FG has Verizon
both for phone and internet, and is very happy with that... so I guess
it depends on what satisfies you that matters.


From whatsupy2k at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 11 13:13:27 2009
From: whatsupy2k at yahoo.com (Vickie Madeoneup)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:13:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Grovenet] Big trees and antennas
In-Reply-To: <A029B240-1612-4865-B637-32AC3B02CE37@verizon.net>
References: <1256892576.24194.47.camel@Netty>
	<728760.42391.qm@web112413.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<021201ca62ec$6f279770$4d76c650$@net>
	<A4612E84-98B5-409E-80C4-39914DAED4A3@verizon.net>
	<4B5D54B6-F4AE-48E0-BD3C-0B822EF8E186@verizon.net>
	<35C06F93-37E2-4437-BB1B-748BFD042EEE@verizon.net>
	<A029B240-1612-4865-B637-32AC3B02CE37@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <518298.53364.qm@web112408.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

here's what one of the websites mentioned said.
btw      we do have an HD ready TV plus an antenna we paid $140 for which was suppose to cover all the senarios.
My guess is that it is our lovely trees.

Vickie

green indicates a strong signal, red is no signal


Callsign Network Virtual Channel
Band      97116 Forest Grove these were all green but the last one, it was red
KATU ABC         2-1                  UHF
KPXG iON         22-1                 UHF
KOIN CBS           6-1                 UHF
KPDX MYTV      49-1              UHF
KRCW CW          32-1             UHF
KNMT TBN          24-1           UHF
KOPB PBS           10-1           Hi-V
KGW NBC           8-1             Hi-V
KPTV FOX          12-1          Hi-V
KOAC PBS 7-1 Hi-V   no service
 
97119  Gaston  these were all yellow

KGW NBC 8-1 Hi-V
KOPB PBS 10-1 Hi-V
KPTV FOX 12-1 Hi-V
KPXG iON 22-1 UHF
KOIN CBS 6-1 UHF
KRCW CW 32-1 UHF
KPDX MYTV 49-1 UHF
KATU ABC 2-1 UHF
KNMT TBN 24-1 UHF





________________________________
From: Katie Allnutt <allnutt at verizon.net>
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Wed, November 11, 2009 11:56:18 AM
Subject: [Grovenet] Big trees and antennas

Hi Martha,
   Big trees make for great neighborhoods and they are lovely. I was  
just thinking that the difference between your situation and mine  
might be that you could have a big tree right smack in the way. When  
we hooked up the new antenna we took a compass to aim the antenna the  
right direction and we noted that one big tree was just to the left  
and one big tree was just to the right but it was a straight line of  
sight to the transmitters in the west hills.
    I was thinking maybe your antenna would do better one end of the  
house vs the other end, depending on the tree alignment.  We were  
just lucky that 100 years ago somebody planted the oaks in the right  
place, and if we had to move the antenna mount we probably would  
consider just giving up TV rather than pay for cable.

On Nov 11, 2009, at 9:36 AM, Martha Khoury wrote:

> This is Forest Grove....there are lots of big trees. Which is, of
> course, one reason we love it here. --M
>
> On Nov 11, 2009, at 9:30 AM, Katie Allnutt wrote:
>
>> Hmmm.
>> You are only a few blocks from us and you have a two story house like
>> us, so this is interesting. When you stand on the roof and look
>> toward Portland's West Hills, is there a big tree in the way?
>>
>> Katie
>>
>> On Nov 11, 2009, at 9:01 AM, Martha Khoury wrote:
>>
>>> We are having an awful time. We have purchased two different  
>>> antennas
>>> to little avail. We are thinking about getting basic cable to
>>> alleviate the problem, but do not want the monthly bill.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet- 
>>>> bounces at rdrop.com]
>>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of Vickie Madeoneup
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:03 PM
>>>> To: Forest Grove local interests list
>>>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] digital TV question
>>>>
>>>> I was wondering if digital TV has turned out to be what it was
>>>> cracked up to
>>>> be for all of you?
>>>>
>>>> For us, even though we are hooked up to an HD antenea and also a
>>>> converter
>>>> box the TV is fairly poor.
>>>> It shuffles into it's digital pixels, gives a "no signal" message
>>>> and then
>>>> goes back to the show.
>>>>
>>>> This happens real often.
>>>>
>>>> I just wanted to find out if this is happening to others.
>>>>
>>>> Vickie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GroveNet mailing list
>>>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>>>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>>>
>>>> __________ NOD32 4596 (20091111) Information __________
>>>>
>>>> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
>>>> http://www.eset.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GroveNet mailing list
>>>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>>>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GroveNet mailing list
>>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



      

From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Wed Nov 11 13:42:07 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:42:07 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] try it you might like
Message-ID: <4511-4AFB2FAF-459@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>

I manage my DirecTv account on line..
And I've got a lot more BIG TREES than most, and my little dish that
faces east is no big than 2? feet in diameter, I also pay an extra $5
a month for insurance just in case, so far I've not needed it....

Ensure DIRECTV emails reach your inbox. Add directv at directv.com to your
address book. 
?



From khourym at verizon.net  Wed Nov 11 16:39:01 2009
From: khourym at verizon.net (Martha Khoury)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 16:39:01 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] Bike disposal
Message-ID: <B9D44F44-BA37-4B06-9E85-F9F1E3F201A7@verizon.net>

Any ideas about how to dispose of a crashed bicycle?

It is definitely not usable and should be trashed. Doesn't exactly fit  
into the bin.

Can the metal frame be recycled?

It just occurred to me that there might be a disposal fee -- which, of  
course, should be passed along to the insurance company.

--Martha K.

From jschrag at FGNewsTimes.com  Wed Nov 11 16:47:36 2009
From: jschrag at FGNewsTimes.com (jschrag at FGNewsTimes.com)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 16:47:36 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] Bike disposal
In-Reply-To: <B9D44F44-BA37-4B06-9E85-F9F1E3F201A7@verizon.net>
References: <B9D44F44-BA37-4B06-9E85-F9F1E3F201A7@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <B6FAD9BDBBF5244BBDD2924075EECBCA39943C0F@PMG-EXCHANGE.pmg.pamplincom.com>

Martha

You can recycle scrap metal at the B Street transfer station for no fee. Waste management sells it, so they're happy to get it. It goes in those big bins on the ramp, just west of the recycling center. The employees can direct you.



John Schrag
Editor & Publisher 
News-Times
Forest Grove, Oregon
503-357-3181
?
Voted the "best small newspaper in Oregon" 2006, 2007, 2008
?
?
?
?
?


-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On Behalf Of Martha Khoury
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 4:39 PM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: [Grovenet] Bike disposal

Any ideas about how to dispose of a crashed bicycle?

It is definitely not usable and should be trashed. Doesn't exactly fit  
into the bin.

Can the metal frame be recycled?

It just occurred to me that there might be a disposal fee -- which, of  
course, should be passed along to the insurance company.

--Martha K.
_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From allnutt at verizon.net  Wed Nov 11 16:57:22 2009
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 16:57:22 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] Bike disposal
In-Reply-To: <B9D44F44-BA37-4B06-9E85-F9F1E3F201A7@verizon.net>
References: <B9D44F44-BA37-4B06-9E85-F9F1E3F201A7@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <9D3788C2-F03B-4D1D-9DA7-63F85E342A6D@verizon.net>

Washington County BTC.
(Bicycle Transportation Coalition)
according to the wonderful folks at Olson's Bikes they take all  
donations.

www.washcobtc.org
503-356-9740


Katie



On Nov 11, 2009, at 4:39 PM, Martha Khoury wrote:

> Any ideas about how to dispose of a crashed bicycle?
>
> It is definitely not usable and should be trashed. Doesn't exactly fit
> into the bin.
>
> Can the metal frame be recycled?
>
> It just occurred to me that there might be a disposal fee -- which, of
> course, should be passed along to the insurance company.
>
> --Martha K.
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From Jamsm at aol.com  Wed Nov 11 19:04:07 2009
From: Jamsm at aol.com (Jamsm at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 22:04:07 EST
Subject: [Grovenet] digital TV question
Message-ID: <be0.6a287aa8.382cd527@aol.com>

 
Most people that bought antennas for their analog TV bought  an  antenna 
optimized for VHF and lower UHF frequencies  and many of those  had no upper 
UHF antenna rods or had very poor  reception of the  upper UHF signals.  With 
the old analog signals could you receive  TV channels under the UHF section 
of the tuner? I  think chanel 22 or 24 (analog) was one that was available  
out of Salem and Beaverton had another that was broadcasting before I left  
the area.  Channel 49 (analog) also comes to mind.
 
The new digital signals are primarily used in the UHF bands and are  highly 
directional. (see notes below)
Most of the better antenna being sold  for the digital signals are highly 
directional - think V shaped. Thus, if you  want good reception you need a 
new antenna optimized (high gain) for the  UHF band.
 
For optimal reception you want an antenna to gather only the signals you  
are interested in.
If you had a VHF/UHF antenna (for all the old TV stations 2 - 12) and  had 
low gain on the UHF channels then you should buy an antenna optimized  for 
the UHF signals (marketed today by many as a digital antenna) - a  
directional antenna is far better than one that is willing to accept signals  from 
various directions. Meaning - the more directional the antenna the cleaner  
your signal should be.  {think of ghosted signals of analog signals  that were 
a result of reflected signals}  [When I first  moved to the  Portland area I 
lived in the Water Tower district; we had very poor reception of  the  
analog signals and the best signals we could get  were  reflections off the 
hills in East Portland. Yup, snowy to no picture.  I  learned to go to a 
friend's home to watch TV.]
 
Please read !   Also search and read up on antenna  design!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_broadcast_television_frequencies
 
 

The following was extracted from above link

 
In the U.S., all channels from 7-36 and 38-51 are frequently used for  
digital TV broadcasts. However, _VHF 2 - 6_ 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Band_I)  are rarely used by DTV  broadcasters due to ongoing problems with 
_impulse noise_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impulse_noise_(audio)) , and  channel 
6 being an _adjacent channel_ 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjacent_channel)  to the  _FM broadcast  band_ 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FM_broadcast_band) .
 
 
 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_broadcast_television_frequencies)  
This link has some wild ideas and interesting notes
http://www.tvtower.com/Commercial%20Television%20Frequencies.html
 
The following was extracted from above link - an interesting note for those 
 that use wireless mics
 
** March 15, 2001:   The Federal Communications  Commission took its first 
steps to auction airwaves used by television  broadcasters on _Channels 52 
through  59_ (http://www.newsfactor.com/perl/story/8277.html#story-start) , 
sought by mobile-phone carriers such as Nextel  Communications.   The agency 
proposed rules to make the TV spectrum  available for mobile or other 
wireless services. It is seeking comment on  whether it should help broadcasters 
relinquish the frequencies. The FCC plans to  let broadcasters and phone 
companies work out agreements to clear the spectrum.  
This Spectrum will become available as broadcasters switch to  
higher-quality digital signals and shut off analog signals. The move will occur  when 
_85 percent_ (http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-5148343.html)   of 
consumers have digital TV receivers, or by 2006, whichever is later. 
Almost all wireless mics operate on the same  frequencies as TV stations. 
The TV stations are licensed by the FCC and are  running at very high power 
levels. Virtually all wireless mics are not licensed,  and must accept any 
interference they get from TV stations. For this reason, a  wireless mic that 
works fine in one city, may not work in another. 
As new stations go on the air, your wireless mic may become  useless. It is 
important to understand this, because every TV station in the  country is 
getting a new frequency for digital TV broadcasting. Only some of  these new 
transmitters are on the air yet, but in the 2006,  they should  all be on 
the air. Check with all your local TV stations to determine what new  channels 
have been assigned to them for digital broadcasting, and when they  expect 
to be on the air. Most manufacturers can switch your existing wireless  mics 
to different frequencies if needed. It would be wise to determine today if  
your existing mics will have problems so you can get them changed at your  
leisure, and not in a panic after they fail.
 
Yup, I have no idea what I am talking about and am an idiot for having  
posted anything  here.
Having worked in electronics and computers for almost  40 years and I  
still don't know anything.

 
 
 
In a message dated 11/11/2009 4:05:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
edavie at verizon.net writes:

They  give them different names but they are still the same antennas as 
before.  The technology may have improved but they are NOT digital  
antennas!
Ed




From edavie at verizon.net  Wed Nov 11 19:30:04 2009
From: edavie at verizon.net (Ed Davie)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 19:30:04 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] digital TV question
References: <be0.6a287aa8.382cd527@aol.com>
Message-ID: <471A303C91EA46C9AAD82E1BB16FB799@700x>

Have to agree with all that! Although all of the antenna's are and were directional to a certain extent. There is/was a front and back etc.
But you are correct that the newer ones are more directional. It wasn't as important with the lower frequency, analog, channels. As a radio amateur I built a number of antennas for the much lower bands but even they were directional. The more elements you added the more directional they became.
Ed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Jamsm at aol.com>
To: <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 7:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] digital TV question


> 
> Most people that bought antennas for their analog TV bought  an  antenna 
> optimized for VHF and lower UHF frequencies  and many of those  had no upper 
> UHF antenna rods or had very poor  reception of the  upper UHF signals.  With 
> the old analog signals could you receive  TV channels under the UHF section 
> of the tuner? I  think chanel 22 or 24 (analog) was one that was available  
> out of Salem and Beaverton had another that was broadcasting before I left  
> the area.  Channel 49 (analog) also comes to mind.
> 
> The new digital signals are primarily used in the UHF bands and are  highly 
> directional. (see notes below)
> Most of the better antenna being sold  for the digital signals are highly 
> directional - think V shaped. Thus, if you  want good reception you need a 
> new antenna optimized (high gain) for the  UHF band.
> 
> For optimal reception you want an antenna to gather only the signals you  
> are interested in.
> If you had a VHF/UHF antenna (for all the old TV stations 2 - 12) and  had 
> low gain on the UHF channels then you should buy an antenna optimized  for 
> the UHF signals (marketed today by many as a digital antenna) - a  
> directional antenna is far better than one that is willing to accept signals  from 
> various directions. Meaning - the more directional the antenna the cleaner  
> your signal should be.  {think of ghosted signals of analog signals  that were 
> a result of reflected signals}  [When I first  moved to the  Portland area I 
> lived in the Water Tower district; we had very poor reception of  the  
> analog signals and the best signals we could get  were  reflections off the 
> hills in East Portland. Yup, snowy to no picture.  I  learned to go to a 
> friend's home to watch TV.]
> 
> Please read !   Also search and read up on antenna  design!
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_broadcast_television_frequencies
> 
> 
> 
> The following was extracted from above link
> 
> 
> In the U.S., all channels from 7-36 and 38-51 are frequently used for  
> digital TV broadcasts. However, _VHF 2 - 6_ 
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Band_I)  are rarely used by DTV  broadcasters due to ongoing problems with 
> _impulse noise_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impulse_noise_(audio)) , and  channel 
> 6 being an _adjacent channel_ 
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjacent_channel)  to the  _FM broadcast  band_ 
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FM_broadcast_band) .
> 
> 
> 
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_broadcast_television_frequencies)  
> This link has some wild ideas and interesting notes
> http://www.tvtower.com/Commercial%20Television%20Frequencies.html
> 
> The following was extracted from above link - an interesting note for those 
> that use wireless mics
> 
> ** March 15, 2001:   The Federal Communications  Commission took its first 
> steps to auction airwaves used by television  broadcasters on _Channels 52 
> through  59_ (http://www.newsfactor.com/perl/story/8277.html#story-start) , 
> sought by mobile-phone carriers such as Nextel  Communications.   The agency 
> proposed rules to make the TV spectrum  available for mobile or other 
> wireless services. It is seeking comment on  whether it should help broadcasters 
> relinquish the frequencies. The FCC plans to  let broadcasters and phone 
> companies work out agreements to clear the spectrum.  
> This Spectrum will become available as broadcasters switch to  
> higher-quality digital signals and shut off analog signals. The move will occur  when 
> _85 percent_ (http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-5148343.html)   of 
> consumers have digital TV receivers, or by 2006, whichever is later. 
> Almost all wireless mics operate on the same  frequencies as TV stations. 
> The TV stations are licensed by the FCC and are  running at very high power 
> levels. Virtually all wireless mics are not licensed,  and must accept any 
> interference they get from TV stations. For this reason, a  wireless mic that 
> works fine in one city, may not work in another. 
> As new stations go on the air, your wireless mic may become  useless. It is 
> important to understand this, because every TV station in the  country is 
> getting a new frequency for digital TV broadcasting. Only some of  these new 
> transmitters are on the air yet, but in the 2006,  they should  all be on 
> the air. Check with all your local TV stations to determine what new  channels 
> have been assigned to them for digital broadcasting, and when they  expect 
> to be on the air. Most manufacturers can switch your existing wireless  mics 
> to different frequencies if needed. It would be wise to determine today if  
> your existing mics will have problems so you can get them changed at your  
> leisure, and not in a panic after they fail.
> 
> Yup, I have no idea what I am talking about and am an idiot for having  
> posted anything  here.
> Having worked in electronics and computers for almost  40 years and I  
> still don't know anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a message dated 11/11/2009 4:05:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
> edavie at verizon.net writes:
> 
> They  give them different names but they are still the same antennas as 
> before.  The technology may have improved but they are NOT digital  
> antennas!
> Ed
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>

From jo.david at verizon.net  Wed Nov 11 22:41:02 2009
From: jo.david at verizon.net (David Morelli)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 22:41:02 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] digital TV question
In-Reply-To: <165404.33698.qm@web112412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <1256892576.24194.47.camel@Netty>
	<728760.42391.qm@web112413.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<CE63F60A-39FD-448C-966C-DE56635F3F9E@verizon.net>
	<165404.33698.qm@web112412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ADF14D11-96E3-44C5-8B7E-18A98B98AE52@verizon.net>

Oh?

On Nov 11, 2009, at 9:50 AM, Vickie Madeoneup wrote:

> David
> 
> I had to chuckle because I don't think I've ever seen you post a one word response before.
> 
> Vickie


From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Thu Nov 12 08:44:17 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 08:44:17 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] Vatican looks to heavens for signs of alien life - MSNBC
	Articles
Message-ID: <17624-4AFC3B61-543@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>

I kind of hoped that this might start a dialog, especially when the lead
of sentence says "E.T. Phone Rome....

http://news.mobile.msn.com/en-us/articles.aspx?afid=1&aid=33838894

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From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Fri Nov 13 07:33:17 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 07:33:17 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] A Hosstyle Greeting For You
Message-ID: <20748-4AFD7C3D-2103@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net>

Hi This Greeting Is Just For You - 
It is Friday, and as of 0700 I've had 3.30 inches of rain since
11/02/09:- http://exclusives.250free.com/html3/friday.html

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From khourym at verizon.net  Fri Nov 13 09:36:08 2009
From: khourym at verizon.net (Martha Khoury)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 09:36:08 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] Free Kefir grain
Message-ID: <679D3852-92E8-4FF7-9AE4-66DDE4EB5C4F@verizon.net>

Ours is ready to divide.

--Martha K.

khourym at verizon.net

From phoenixacup at gmail.com  Fri Nov 13 10:31:31 2009
From: phoenixacup at gmail.com (Jane Burch-Pesses)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 10:31:31 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] Free Kefir grain
In-Reply-To: <679D3852-92E8-4FF7-9AE4-66DDE4EB5C4F@verizon.net>
References: <679D3852-92E8-4FF7-9AE4-66DDE4EB5C4F@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <d6eeab3d0911131031q143ae81fm2d19eff7216d8b27@mail.gmail.com>

OK, I'll bite.  What's a kefir grain?

Jane

On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Martha Khoury <khourym at verizon.net> wrote:

> Ours is ready to divide.
>
> --Martha K.
>
> khourym at verizon.net
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>



-- 
Phoenix Acupuncture and Chinese Medicine
Home of the TAO (Team Against Obesity)
www.phoenix-acupuncture.net

From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Fri Nov 13 11:36:35 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:36:35 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] Free Kefir grain
In-Reply-To: Jane Burch-Pesses <phoenixacup@gmail.com>'s message of Fri, 13
	Nov 2009 10:31:31 -0800
Message-ID: <4508-4AFDB543-3396@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>

jane .. I do not think you would really want to bite these...
http://www.kefirlady.com/

~A~ :?)

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From phoenixacup at gmail.com  Fri Nov 13 11:43:41 2009
From: phoenixacup at gmail.com (Jane Burch-Pesses)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:43:41 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] Free Kefir grain
In-Reply-To: <4508-4AFDB543-3396@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>
References: <phoenixacup@gmail.com>
	<4508-4AFDB543-3396@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>
Message-ID: <d6eeab3d0911131143u61ae351foca271533a5128340@mail.gmail.com>

Probiotics, gotcha.  Thanks for the clarification, Alan.

Jane

On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 11:36 AM, Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss <
OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net> wrote:

> jane .. I do not think you would really want to bite these...
> http://www.kefirlady.com/
>
> ~A~ :?)
>
>
> [image: Click for Banks, Oregon Forecast]
>
>
> Alan's Place <http://community.webtv.net/OleHossTreeFarm/AlansPlace>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
>


-- 
Phoenix Acupuncture and Chinese Medicine
Home of the TAO (Team Against Obesity)
www.phoenix-acupuncture.net

From isis23ra at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 13 11:55:02 2009
From: isis23ra at yahoo.com (Alana Graham)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:55:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Grovenet] B.S. ends Sat. 11/14! $5 bag o' books,
	free bag if you help cleanup!
In-Reply-To: <d6eeab3d0911131143u61ae351foca271533a5128340@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <766266.62574.qm@web55605.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

The FG Library Used Book sale's last day is?tomorrow Sat. 11/14/09, 10 AM - 3 PM.
?
All books are on sale Sat. - $5 for a bag of books.? BYOB!
?
Come to help us clean up at 3 PM and get a free bag of books!
?
Come to help us finish cleaning up on Monday, 11/16/09 at 10 AM and get a good warm feeling in your heart!
?
Thanks again
Alana


?


      

From jo.david at verizon.net  Mon Nov 16 20:26:25 2009
From: jo.david at verizon.net (David Morelli)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 20:26:25 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] Light Parade coming and can use volunteers
Message-ID: <63D67331-A78B-40B9-95E0-250D1CE4A0E8@verizon.net>

Forest Grove Holiday Light Parade
Sponsored by FG Light & Power and City Club of Forest Grove

The Holiday Light Parade will be on Saturday, Dec. 5 at 5:00 p.m. The route is a straight line down Main Street from Lincoln Park to disband in the large gravel lot at 19th and Main Street.
We need to have someone posted at all streets that intersect with Main to control access to Main Street before the parade starts.  We also need people at the start and the disband areas.  There may also be a need for walkers with parade entries that may have limited visibility to prevent children from entering the street during the parade.
If you have any people who would volunteer to help they can leave a message for me at 503 357-0223 or email sojourn.fg at verizon.net.
Mary Jo Morelli
VP, City Club of Forest Grove

From theresacus at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 17 02:35:47 2009
From: theresacus at yahoo.com (Theresa Carter)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 02:35:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Grovenet] Flag
In-Reply-To: <mailman.13.1257192005.10406.grovenet@rdrop.com>
Message-ID: <190732.80091.qm@web34501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I was coming home from some errands yesterday and noticed how beautiful the flag was blowing in the wind.?? I really like the smaller version a lot better.? It does not give other the false pretentiousness regarding who are community is.? Americans have enough of those problems around the world.? I like living in a community that is humble and considerate of others.? I think that the smaller flag gives others that message.? 
?
Theresa Carter


?


      

From Kathy.Ayala at nike.com  Tue Nov 17 06:42:28 2009
From: Kathy.Ayala at nike.com (Ayala, Kathy)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 06:42:28 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] Flag
In-Reply-To: <190732.80091.qm@web34501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.13.1257192005.10406.grovenet@rdrop.com>
	<190732.80091.qm@web34501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200911171442.nAHEgTHc020424@barrierL241.nike.com>


 I have to agree, this morning (Tuesday) I was going to work and drove past it. With the light on it and the wind blowing is would have made a wonderful picture. The person that rides with me to work and I both talked about how nice it is. 

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On Behalf Of Theresa Carter
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 2:36 AM
To: grovenet at rdrop.com
Subject: [Grovenet] Flag

I was coming home from some errands yesterday and noticed how beautiful the flag was blowing in the wind.?? I really like the smaller version a lot better.? It does not give other the false pretentiousness regarding who are community is.? Americans have enough of those problems around the world.? I like living in a community that is humble and considerate of others.? I think that the smaller flag gives others that message.? 
?
Theresa Carter


?


      
_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Tue Nov 17 07:55:34 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 07:55:34 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] A Hosstyle Good Morning For You
Message-ID: <16546-4B02C776-1392@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>

As of 0700 this morning I've received 4.6 inches of rain since 11/02/09
for this month.  However, as hard as the wind blew, I am surprised any
rain made into the gauge at all.  Just about 12 inches for this season
so far .. give or take.. 
Of course Mr Ed will have another idea....

Hi This Greeting Is Just For You - Good Morning :-
http://exclusives.250free.com/html5/garmorn.html

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From waltw at teleport.com  Tue Nov 17 08:08:59 2009
From: waltw at teleport.com (Walt Wentz)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 08:08:59 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] Flag
In-Reply-To: <190732.80091.qm@web34501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <190732.80091.qm@web34501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <F8E15EF1-DBAB-4B52-9ADB-6A719D6E9D31@teleport.com>

Right, Theresa!
Also, it is in more reasonable scale to the flagpole itself, and much  
less likely to tear to pieces in a high wind-- or to pull the  
flagpole up by the roots and bop somebody over the head with it in a  
real hurricane.
Walt
On Nov 17, 2009, at 2:35 AM, Theresa Carter wrote:

> I was coming home from some errands yesterday and noticed how  
> beautiful the flag was blowing in the wind.   I really like the  
> smaller version a lot better.  It does not give other the false  
> pretentiousness regarding who are community is.  Americans have  
> enough of those problems around the world.  I like living in a  
> community that is humble and considerate of others.  I think that  
> the smaller flag gives others that message.
>
> Theresa Carter
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Tue Nov 17 08:33:50 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 08:33:50 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] rain up-date
Message-ID: <16549-4B02D06E-1113@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>

http://community-2.webtv.net/OleHossTreeFarm/RainUpDate/


From whatsupy2k at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 17 08:48:39 2009
From: whatsupy2k at yahoo.com (Vickie Madeoneup)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 08:48:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Grovenet] Flag
In-Reply-To: <190732.80091.qm@web34501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <190732.80091.qm@web34501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <605576.53228.qm@web112409.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

I "vote" for the huge flag.

I love seeing it from afar, I think it is absolutely beautiful!

Vickie





________________________________
From: Theresa Carter <theresacus at yahoo.com>
To: grovenet at rdrop.com
Sent: Tue, November 17, 2009 2:35:47 AM
Subject: [Grovenet] Flag

I was coming home from some errands yesterday and noticed how beautiful the flag was blowing in the wind.   I really like the smaller version a lot better.  It does not give other the false pretentiousness regarding who are community is.  Americans have enough of those problems around the world.  I like living in a community that is humble and considerate of others.  I think that the smaller flag gives others that message.  
 
Theresa Carter


 


      
_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



      

From steelem at pacificu.edu  Tue Nov 17 09:09:26 2009
From: steelem at pacificu.edu (Steele, Mike)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 09:09:26 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] Flag
In-Reply-To: <605576.53228.qm@web112409.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <190732.80091.qm@web34501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<605576.53228.qm@web112409.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8D94A946E17E9941AE94FC3AE11CAB7E03CB66F9E4@everest.ad.pacificu.edu>

Under the right conditions, I find that both flags are beautiful and inspiring.  I think the wet winter conditions would make the large flag more or less just droop...I saw this a couple of times before it was replaced...

I am proud of either one and know what I want either flag to represent...which may not happen often enough, but hope springs eternal.

--Mike 

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On Behalf Of Vickie Madeoneup
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 8:49 AM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Flag

I "vote" for the huge flag.

I love seeing it from afar, I think it is absolutely beautiful!

Vickie





________________________________
From: Theresa Carter <theresacus at yahoo.com>
To: grovenet at rdrop.com
Sent: Tue, November 17, 2009 2:35:47 AM
Subject: [Grovenet] Flag

I was coming home from some errands yesterday and noticed how beautiful the flag was blowing in the wind.   I really like the smaller version a lot better.  It does not give other the false pretentiousness regarding who are community is.  Americans have enough of those problems around the world.  I like living in a community that is humble and considerate of others.  I think that the smaller flag gives others that message.  
 
Theresa Carter


 


      
_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



      
_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Tue Nov 17 11:36:40 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 11:36:40 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] New LapTop
Message-ID: <5814-4B02FB48-1852@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>

I was thinking about getting a new lap-top for xmas, so I can go to
school on-line, but after reading this, I am not to sure....
...http://home.comcast.net/~singingman7777/HTIS.htm....

~A~ :?)

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From edavie at verizon.net  Tue Nov 17 12:24:09 2009
From: edavie at verizon.net (Ed Davie)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:24:09 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] New LapTop
References: <5814-4B02FB48-1852@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>
Message-ID: <810F2DF222F442968F9AB50CBE1B471D@700x>

quite!
Ed
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss" <OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net>
To: <GroveNet at rdrop.com>
Cc: <GroveNet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 11:36 AM
Subject: [Grovenet] New LapTop


I was thinking about getting a new lap-top for xmas, so I can go to
school on-line, but after reading this, I am not to sure....
...http://home.comcast.net/~singingman7777/HTIS.htm....

~A~ :<)




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> http://home.comcast.net/~singingman7777/HTIS.htm
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> 



From chopwoodcarrywater at verizon.net  Tue Nov 17 16:43:56 2009
From: chopwoodcarrywater at verizon.net (Julie Larson)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 16:43:56 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] Flag
In-Reply-To: <190732.80091.qm@web34501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.13.1257192005.10406.grovenet@rdrop.com>
	<190732.80091.qm@web34501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <009401ca67e8$36500d50$a2f027f0$@net>

Here, here!

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Theresa Carter
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 2:36 AM
To: grovenet at rdrop.com
Subject: [Grovenet] Flag

I was coming home from some errands yesterday and noticed how beautiful the
flag was blowing in the wind.?? I really like the smaller version a lot
better.? It does not give other the false pretentiousness regarding who are
community is.? Americans have enough of those problems around the world.? I
like living in a community that is humble and considerate of others.? I
think that the smaller flag gives others that message.? 
?
Theresa Carter


?


      
_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet




From jim at benchmarkinspections.com  Tue Nov 17 17:05:25 2009
From: jim at benchmarkinspections.com (Jim Katen)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 17:05:25 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] Flag
In-Reply-To: <8D94A946E17E9941AE94FC3AE11CAB7E03CB66F9E4@everest.ad.pacificu.edu>
References: <190732.80091.qm@web34501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<605576.53228.qm@web112409.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<8D94A946E17E9941AE94FC3AE11CAB7E03CB66F9E4@everest.ad.pacificu.edu>
Message-ID: <D108FFA5EE504C77BE8FCF61F2B0B6C6@JimDell>

I like 'em both too. 

The important thing is that ours is bigger than Newberg's. 

- Jim Katen


-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Steele, Mike
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 9:09 AM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Flag

Under the right conditions, I find that both flags are beautiful and
inspiring.  I think the wet winter conditions would make the large flag more
or less just droop...I saw this a couple of times before it was replaced...

I am proud of either one and know what I want either flag to
represent...which may not happen often enough, but hope springs eternal.

--Mike 

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Vickie Madeoneup
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 8:49 AM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Flag

I "vote" for the huge flag.

I love seeing it from afar, I think it is absolutely beautiful!

Vickie





________________________________
From: Theresa Carter <theresacus at yahoo.com>
To: grovenet at rdrop.com
Sent: Tue, November 17, 2009 2:35:47 AM
Subject: [Grovenet] Flag

I was coming home from some errands yesterday and noticed how beautiful the
flag was blowing in the wind.   I really like the smaller version a lot
better.  It does not give other the false pretentiousness regarding who are
community is.  Americans have enough of those problems around the world.  I
like living in a community that is humble and considerate of others.  I
think that the smaller flag gives others that message.  
 
Theresa Carter


 


      
_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



      
_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From rab at jurislex.com  Tue Nov 17 17:49:46 2009
From: rab at jurislex.com (Bob Browning)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 17:49:46 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] Some very timely Internet security concerns . . . . . .
Message-ID: <4B0352BA.7010902@jurislex.com>

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From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Wed Nov 18 06:32:37 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 06:32:37 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] last years test turkey test
Message-ID: <12913-4B040585-2056@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net>

http://home.aristotle.net/thanksgiving/trivia.asp

and even though I took this test last year, I still missed he ones about
the presidents...So, I wonder if anyone else remembers anything.

by the bye... since 11/02/09 .. the green mt. rain gauge reading is at
0600 and 35 degrees this morning reads ... exactly 5.00 inches for
November only.
The season since Sept first is 12 inches give or take..
and I've no good mornings to send, for .. it ain't!

~A~ :?) not the only turkey around ~ Hoss



From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Wed Nov 18 11:43:14 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 11:43:14 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] Rain Up-Date
Message-ID: <5819-4B044E52-1818@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>

http://community-2.webtv.net/OleHossTreeFarm/RainUpDate/

~A~:?) ... Boy-O-Boy .. I'm sure gald I've good drainage...



From khourym at verizon.net  Fri Nov 20 10:30:58 2009
From: khourym at verizon.net (Martha Khoury)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:30:58 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] Crafty Ladies Sale
Message-ID: <E6E837C5-8F7A-4A94-BFB8-1581D7534CF0@verizon.net>

Holiday Boutique including furniture, antiques, handmade items,  
jewelry, etc...

Today and tomorrow, from 10 - 6

hosted at the historic Macrum mansion aka Castle School.

2225 12th Ave.

Hope to see you there.

From mbliss at agora.rdrop.com  Sun Nov 22 21:29:58 2009
From: mbliss at agora.rdrop.com (Meredith Bliss)
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 21:29:58 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] [SPAM?]  Remembering Che
Message-ID: <200911222129.58853.mbliss@agora.rdrop.com>

Thirty years ago when I lived in Davis, my friends Martin & Kathy had twin 
boys. Kathy named one Noah. Martin, ever the activist, named the other Che. 
One day I walked into the office space we shared and found Che and Noah 
happily painting the keys of Martin's typewriter with whiteout. They had a 
really good reason for doing that, though I don't remember now what it was. 
They were always such adorable imps, it was hard to get very upset. 

Because Che was the more reserved of the two, it was a surprise for me to 
learn that he loved to fly and had become a Coast Guard pilot. On the night 
before Halloween, he answered the call to search for a boater missing off of 
San Diego. His plane collided with a Marine helicopter on a night training 
mission, and all nine aboard the two aircraft were lost.

It's hard to reconcile the two images. We struggle to understand the 
incongruities, learn to live with much that makes no sense, and yet be 
thankful for what we have.

----------------------------------------
Just happy to be here, but speaking 
only for myself!
Meredith Bliss --- www.rdrop.com/~mbliss
----------------------------------------

From mbliss at agora.rdrop.com  Sun Nov 22 21:39:57 2009
From: mbliss at agora.rdrop.com (Meredith Bliss)
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 21:39:57 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] [SPAM?]  Fwd: Oregon crime rates
Message-ID: <200911222139.57873.mbliss@agora.rdrop.com>

The next time you hear someone grumbling about the restrictions on 
over-the-counter cold medications, or wonder if it's worth the bother, 
consider this.

Attached is a graph illustrating how Oregon had nearly the highest property 
crime rate in the nation, ranking 48th out of 52 (including DC and Puerto 
Rico) for the years 2003 - 2005. In 2005 Oregon adopted the strictest limits 
in the nation on pseudoephedrine in over-the-counter cold medications. This 
was expected to reduce the frequency of "mom and pop meth labs," but no one 
expected the results to be so sudden or so dramatic: meth labs disappeared 
from the state nearly overnight, and the following year Oregon dropped from 
48th highest to 34th, and by 2008 it had dropped to 29th place in index 
property crime rates. It's a success story worth repeating.

That little blip in 1996 is related to meth, as well. You can read more about 
that at http://www.oregon.gov/CJC/MethPropCrime1996_20041007.pdf The impact 
of meth on property crime rates, unlike any other drug, never fails to amaze 
me. 

 
----------------------------------------
Just happy to be here, but speaking 
only for myself!
Meredith Bliss --- www.rdrop.com/~mbliss
----------------------------------------
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From allnutt at verizon.net  Sun Nov 22 21:05:27 2009
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 21:05:27 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] [SPAM?]  Remembering Che
In-Reply-To: <200911222129.58853.mbliss@agora.rdrop.com>
References: <200911222129.58853.mbliss@agora.rdrop.com>
Message-ID: <AD5AE109-B13B-4FF7-A8DA-9B3952C92F63@verizon.net>

It is quite hard to find thanks in the middle of great tragedy.
Thanks for reminding us that while our problems seem big at the time  
there are others who are dealing with larger heartbreaks.  If  you  
talk to your friends tell them that many who saw the news of the  
helicopter crash that night thought of the families and what a hard  
time they would face in the coming months.

Katie

On Nov 22, 2009, at 9:29 PM, Meredith Bliss wrote:

> Thirty years ago when I lived in Davis, my friends Martin & Kathy  
> had twin
> boys. Kathy named one Noah. Martin, ever the activist, named the  
> other Che.
> One day I walked into the office space we shared and found Che and  
> Noah
> happily painting the keys of Martin's typewriter with whiteout.  
> They had a
> really good reason for doing that, though I don't remember now what  
> it was.
> They were always such adorable imps, it was hard to get very upset.
>
> Because Che was the more reserved of the two, it was a surprise for  
> me to
> learn that he loved to fly and had become a Coast Guard pilot. On  
> the night
> before Halloween, he answered the call to search for a boater  
> missing off of
> San Diego. His plane collided with a Marine helicopter on a night  
> training
> mission, and all nine aboard the two aircraft were lost.
>
> It's hard to reconcile the two images. We struggle to understand the
> incongruities, learn to live with much that makes no sense, and yet be
> thankful for what we have.
>
> ----------------------------------------
> Just happy to be here, but speaking
> only for myself!
> Meredith Bliss --- www.rdrop.com/~mbliss
> ----------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From hannah at teleport.com  Tue Nov 24 15:22:28 2009
From: hannah at teleport.com (Kristy Gravlin)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:22:28 -0600
Subject: [Grovenet] What a surprise...
Message-ID: <C731C6D4.115E7%hannah@teleport.com>

Hey Bob, 
What a surprise to see your name in a ?bad guy? story...fortunately on the
good side of it tho. Glad to hear that you were not more directly involved
and that all is well.
Kristy

From Chuck at ChuckRiley.org  Wed Nov 25 18:05:52 2009
From: Chuck at ChuckRiley.org (Chuck Riley)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:05:52 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] [SPAM?]  Fwd: Oregon crime rates
In-Reply-To: <200911222139.57873.mbliss@agora.rdrop.com>
References: <200911222139.57873.mbliss@agora.rdrop.com>
Message-ID: <000f01ca6e3c$fbbf93d0$f33ebb70$@org>

Bud,

Thanks for sending this.  I got a lot of flack at the time for sponsoring
this bill.  I'm glad it turned out the way we envisioned it.

Chuck

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Meredith Bliss
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 9:40 PM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: [Grovenet] [SPAM?] Fwd: Oregon crime rates
Importance: Low

The next time you hear someone grumbling about the restrictions on
over-the-counter cold medications, or wonder if it's worth the bother,
consider this.

Attached is a graph illustrating how Oregon had nearly the highest property
crime rate in the nation, ranking 48th out of 52 (including DC and Puerto
Rico) for the years 2003 - 2005. In 2005 Oregon adopted the strictest limits
in the nation on pseudoephedrine in over-the-counter cold medications. This
was expected to reduce the frequency of "mom and pop meth labs," but no one
expected the results to be so sudden or so dramatic: meth labs disappeared
from the state nearly overnight, and the following year Oregon dropped from
48th highest to 34th, and by 2008 it had dropped to 29th place in index
property crime rates. It's a success story worth repeating.


That little blip in 1996 is related to meth, as well. You can read more
about that at http://www.oregon.gov/CJC/MethPropCrime1996_20041007.pdf The
impact of meth on property crime rates, unlike any other drug, never fails
to amaze me. 

 
----------------------------------------
Just happy to be here, but speaking
only for myself!
Meredith Bliss --- www.rdrop.com/~mbliss
----------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.76/2519 - Release Date: 11/22/09
19:40:00



From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Sun Nov 29 09:55:31 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 09:55:31 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] Let It Snow For Christmas
Message-ID: <20559-4B12B593-1274@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>

http://community.webtv.net/OleHossTreeFarm/LetItSnowFor

From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Sun Nov 29 10:04:18 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 10:04:18 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] A Hosstyle Greeting For You
Message-ID: <20553-4B12B7A2-6252@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>

Hi This Greeting Is Just For You - Sunday :-
http://exclusives.250free.com/html3/sg1.html

http://community-2.webtv.net/OleHossTreeFarm/LetItSnowFo r/


From tosca at prodigy.net  Sun Nov 29 10:44:14 2009
From: tosca at prodigy.net (Bonnie B. Combs)
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 10:44:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Grovenet] Let It Snow For Christmas
In-Reply-To: <20559-4B12B593-1274@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>
Message-ID: <90399.82703.qm@web81405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hey  Hoss I tried to phone you but it must be snowing up there already cause your phone said it wasn't accepting calls.  What's happening?  You OK?

Miss B

--- On Sun, 11/29/09, Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss <OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net> wrote:

> From: Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss <OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net>
> Subject: [Grovenet] Let It Snow For Christmas
> To: GroveNet at rdrop.com
> Date: Sunday, November 29, 2009, 9:55 AM
> http://community.webtv.net/OleHossTreeFarm/LetItSnowFor
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> 

From allnutt at verizon.net  Sun Nov 29 11:54:21 2009
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 11:54:21 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] Let It Snow For Christmas
In-Reply-To: <20559-4B12B593-1274@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>
References: <20559-4B12B593-1274@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>
Message-ID: <90770BF9-5B69-49DD-81C3-2CF0CAF36D94@verizon.net>

Very cute. I haven't heard that one before.

Katie

On Nov 29, 2009, at 9:55 AM, Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss wrote:

> http://community.webtv.net/OleHossTreeFarm/LetItSnowFor
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From jo.david at verizon.net  Sun Nov 29 23:59:29 2009
From: jo.david at verizon.net (David Morelli)
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 23:59:29 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] Let It Snow For Christmas
In-Reply-To: <20559-4B12B593-1274@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>
References: <20559-4B12B593-1274@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>
Message-ID: <BA930F37-B80C-4CEE-8DF2-0E1D4D70082A@verizon.net>

I understand the problem.  You cannot house train a snowman either.

David

On Nov 29, 2009, at 9:55 AM, Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss wrote:

> http://community.webtv.net/OleHossTreeFarm/LetItSnowFor
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Mon Nov 30 07:15:01 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 07:15:01 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] A Hosstyle Greeting For You
Message-ID: <20557-4B13E175-3272@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>

- It Is Monday! :- and here is to hopeing 
that it's good morning for the good folks of the Grove...
 http://exclusives.250free.com/html/mondaymax.html

And the probability of a white christmas
http://www.weather.com/outlook/homeandgarden/holidays/

~A~:?)

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From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Mon Nov 30 07:26:55 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 07:26:55 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] how long till christmas
Message-ID: <20556-4B13E43F-4196@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>

http://www.auburn.edu/~vestmon/xmas_cnt.htm

by the bye .. I have some xmas trees that I'd like to give away.... some
nobles as well as doug fir .. all you have to do is cut and haul them
your self, however.I might be coerced into cutting and hauling for
someone who does not have a way to haul the home.

~A~:?)

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From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Mon Nov 30 07:34:42 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 07:34:42 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] Santa Claus' Christmas home | SantaClaus.com since 1994
Message-ID: <20560-4B13E612-1134@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>

It looks as though even santa has gone hi tech.

http://www.santaclaus.com/

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From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Mon Nov 30 11:33:26 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 11:33:26 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] calming  the big and little kids on xmas eve
Message-ID: <26435-4B141E06-4302@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>

Official NORAD Santa Tracker

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From oldredwagon at verizon.net  Mon Nov 30 11:50:52 2009
From: oldredwagon at verizon.net (Marian Cakarnis)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 11:50:52 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] Fw:  how long till christmas
Message-ID: <AFCEDBDBEFA9425F813FC52493F2739E@JeffVAIO>

Hi Alan,

I would love to get some of your noble.  Every year a friend and I get together to make holiday centerpieces.  So we are interested in beautiful and full greenery.  If you have a tree which is crooked, misshapen or has a weird shape which no one would want for a Christmas tree, it would be perfect for us.  

We are planning on making the centerpieces next Wednesday.  Is there any chance we could come out next Monday or Tuesday?

Marian Cakarnis
503-357-2805 (home)



From: Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss 
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 7:26 AM
To: GroveNet at rdrop.com 
Subject: [Grovenet] how long till christmas


http://www.auburn.edu/~vestmon/xmas_cnt.htm

by the bye .. I have some xmas trees that I'd like to give away.... some
nobles as well as doug fir .. all you have to do is cut and haul them
your self, however.I might be coerced into cutting and hauling for
someone who does not have a way to haul the home.

~A~:<)




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------







--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Mon Nov 30 12:18:31 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 12:18:31 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] Fw:  how long till christmas
In-Reply-To: "Marian Cakarnis" <oldredwagon@verizon.net>'s message of Mon,
	30 Nov 2009 11:50:52 -0800
Message-ID: <20554-4B142897-7047@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>

any time is okay, however,  call first to make sure I am home ......
324-9055 or 347-9106 cell