From rab at jurislex.com  Tue Sep  1 11:45:25 2009
From: rab at jurislex.com (Bob Browning)
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 11:45:25 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Millions face shrinking Social Security checks -
	MSNBCArticles
In-Reply-To: <8A6E8931DAC44B34917FB972D85B2893@EDavie>
References: <20803-4A91B10D-1645@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>
	<8A6E8931DAC44B34917FB972D85B2893@EDavie>
Message-ID: <4A9D6BC5.3050605@jurislex.com>

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From osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  1 13:52:09 2009
From: osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com (Allen Warren)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 13:52:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] Millions face shrinking Social Security checks -
	MSNBCArticles
In-Reply-To: <4A9D6BC5.3050605@jurislex.com>
References: <20803-4A91B10D-1645@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>
	<8A6E8931DAC44B34917FB972D85B2893@EDavie>
	<4A9D6BC5.3050605@jurislex.com>
Message-ID: <220809.16411.qm@web112105.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Bob, you're correct.  As the article states, Medicare Prescription premiums are often deducted from SS payments.  With those premiums increasing, and with no COLA increase to offset, then yes, the SS amount will indeed decrease.

Another problem is that total overhead has increased . . . items such as prescriptions, insurance and food.  And the government is justifying the zero increase in that they're stating inflation is negative because energy costs are now lower than 2008?  The only energy cost reduction I've seen since last year is the per gallon cost of gasoline.  Electricity?  cost/khw same as in 2008.  Natural gas?  Price/BTU $0.02 higher than in 2008.  Medical/dental insurance cost?  Higher as well.

Since inflation is based on the Consumer Price Index, I'm thinking the CPI elements used for calculation purposes need to be revisited.  According to the CPI website: 
"Although medical insurance premiums are an important part of consumers'
medical spending, the direct pricing of health insurance policies is
not included in the CPI. As explained below, BLS reassigns most of this
spending to the other medical categories (such as Hospitals) that are
paid for by insurance. The extreme difficulty distinguishing changes in
insurance quality from changes in its price forces the CPI to use this
indirect method.
The CPI measures inflation at the retail level, and reflects the
average price change over time for a constant quality, constant
quantity market basket of goods and services. In most cases it
approximates what households spend out-of-pocket on goods and
services used for day-to-day living. Therefore, medical care indexes
are limited to items with an out-of-pocket expenditure, although in the
case of medical care the term out-of-pocket includes any health
insurance premium amounts that are deducted from employee
paychecks."

Again, I think the CPI calculation variables need to be reviewed.

 
Allen Warren



________________________________
From: Bob Browning <rab at jurislex.com>
To: Ed Davie <edavie at verizon.net>; Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2009 11:45:25 AM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Millions face shrinking Social Security checks - MSNBCArticles

Actually, it appears that the check may go down since
the insurance deduction will go up, thus leading to a net decrease!!

bob "gettin' older everyday" browning
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ed Davie wrote: 
The title is misleading. If you actually read it 
>the check won't go down, it just won't go up as it 
>usually does due to inflation!
>Ed
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss
>  To: GroveNet at rdrop.com
>  Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 2:13 PM
>  Subject: [Grovenet] Millions face shrinking 
>Social Security checks - MSNBCArticles
>
>
>  http://news.mobile.msn.com/en-us/articles.aspx?afid=1&aid=32528090



      

From edavie at verizon.net  Tue Sep  1 16:03:48 2009
From: edavie at verizon.net (Ed Davie)
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 16:03:48 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Millions face shrinking Social Security checks
 -MSNBCArticles
References: <20803-4A91B10D-1645@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>
	<8A6E8931DAC44B34917FB972D85B2893@EDavie>	<4A9D6BC5.3050605@jurislex.com>
	<220809.16411.qm@web112105.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8FE925402E1241C79867162BBB5B65B1@EDavie>

That need has been obvious for years! Don't hold 
your breath.
Ed
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Allen Warren
  To: Forest Grove local interests list
  Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 1:52 PM
  Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Millions face shrinking 
Social Security checks -MSNBCArticles


  Bob, you're correct.  As the article states, 
Medicare Prescription premiums are often deducted 
from SS payments.  With those premiums increasing, 
and with no COLA increase to offset, then yes, the 
SS amount will indeed decrease.

  Another problem is that total overhead has 
increased . . . items such as prescriptions, 
insurance and food.  And the government is 
justifying the zero increase in that they're 
stating inflation is negative because energy costs 
are now lower than 2008?  The only energy cost 
reduction I've seen since last year is the per 
gallon cost of gasoline.  Electricity?  cost/khw 
same as in 2008.  Natural gas?  Price/BTU $0.02 
higher than in 2008.  Medical/dental insurance 
cost?  Higher as well.

  Since inflation is based on the Consumer Price 
Index, I'm thinking the CPI elements used for 
calculation purposes need to be revisited. 
According to the CPI website:
  "Although medical insurance premiums are an 
important part of consumers'
  medical spending, the direct pricing of health 
insurance policies is
  not included in the CPI. As explained below, BLS 
reassigns most of this
  spending to the other medical categories (such 
as Hospitals) that are
  paid for by insurance. The extreme difficulty 
distinguishing changes in
  insurance quality from changes in its price 
forces the CPI to use this
  indirect method.
  The CPI measures inflation at the retail level, 
and reflects the
  average price change over time for a constant 
quality, constant
  quantity market basket of goods and services. In 
most cases it
  approximates what households spend out-of-pocket 
on goods and
  services used for day-to-day living. Therefore, 
medical care indexes
  are limited to items with an out-of-pocket 
expenditure, although in the
  case of medical care the term out-of-pocket 
includes any health
  insurance premium amounts that are deducted from 
employee
  paychecks."

  Again, I think the CPI calculation variables 
need to be reviewed.


  Allen Warren



  ________________________________
  From: Bob Browning <rab at jurislex.com>
  To: Ed Davie <edavie at verizon.net>; Forest Grove 
local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
  Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2009 11:45:25 AM
  Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Millions face shrinking 
Social Security checks - MSNBCArticles

  Actually, it appears that the check may go down 
since
  the insurance deduction will go up, thus leading 
to a net decrease!!

  bob "gettin' older everyday" browning
  ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
  Ed Davie wrote:
  The title is misleading. If you actually read it
  >the check won't go down, it just won't go up as 
it
  >usually does due to inflation!
  >Ed
  >  ----- Original Message ----- 
  >  From: Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss
  >  To: GroveNet at rdrop.com
  >  Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 2:13 PM
  >  Subject: [Grovenet] Millions face shrinking
  >Social Security checks - MSNBCArticles
  >
  >
  > 
http://news.mobile.msn.com/en-us/articles.aspx?afid=1&aid=32528090




  _______________________________________________
  GroveNet mailing list
  GroveNet at rdrop.com
  http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

From jo.david at verizon.net  Tue Sep  1 22:11:35 2009
From: jo.david at verizon.net (David Morelli)
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 22:11:35 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Millions face shrinking Social Security checks -
 MSNBCArticles
In-Reply-To: <4A9D6BC5.3050605@jurislex.com>
References: <20803-4A91B10D-1645@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>
	<8A6E8931DAC44B34917FB972D85B2893@EDavie>
	<4A9D6BC5.3050605@jurislex.com>
Message-ID: <BD257C9B-E3F4-4E6F-934D-5760ED359C61@verizon.net>

It bothers me that we always talk of cost of living raises as a good  
way of dealing with inflation.

Inflation is a measure of the declining value of our money.

Maybe we should be trying to hold the value of the dollar?

... upon some reflection, I suppose that would encourage people to  
save rather than spend?

David

On Sep 1, 2009, at 11:45 AM, Bob Browning wrote:

> Actually, it appears that the check may go down since the insurance  
> deduction will go up, thus leading to a net decrease!!

From khourym at verizon.net  Wed Sep  2 17:02:14 2009
From: khourym at verizon.net (Martha Khoury)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 17:02:14 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Hazelnut Retail Store is Back!
Message-ID: <7A23F67A-D42D-4FF6-868F-AE7DAEF28646@verizon.net>

Back in Cornelius from a brief stint in Orenco Station. Yeah! --Martha  
K.

From lisetteromig at comcast.net  Wed Sep  2 21:09:15 2009
From: lisetteromig at comcast.net (Lisette Romig)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 21:09:15 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Hazelnut Retail Store is Back!
References: <7A23F67A-D42D-4FF6-868F-AE7DAEF28646@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <B7598E18D0234FEFA96AD5851872EEE3@DBCGYM81>

Hi Martha,

I looked everywhere for the Hazelnut retail store in Cornelius this summer. 
Finally found them at Orenco Station. Where are they located in Cornelius?

Lisette

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Martha Khoury" <khourym at verizon.net>
To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 5:02 PM
Subject: [Grovenet] Hazelnut Retail Store is Back!


> Back in Cornelius from a brief stint in Orenco Station. Yeah! --Martha
> K.
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet 


From khourym at verizon.net  Wed Sep  2 21:40:25 2009
From: khourym at verizon.net (Martha Khoury)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 21:40:25 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Hazelnut Retail Store is Back!
In-Reply-To: <B7598E18D0234FEFA96AD5851872EEE3@DBCGYM81>
References: <7A23F67A-D42D-4FF6-868F-AE7DAEF28646@verizon.net>
	<B7598E18D0234FEFA96AD5851872EEE3@DBCGYM81>
Message-ID: <E3C565F4-A73A-4D06-81CE-911645B33137@verizon.net>

Back in their old location. You turn left (from FG) past FredMeyers at  
the light in front of the car wash like you're going to the movie  
theater. They're in an industrial park on the left. --M


On Sep 2, 2009, at 9:09 PM, Lisette Romig wrote:

> Hi Martha,
>
> I looked everywhere for the Hazelnut retail store in Cornelius this  
> summer.
> Finally found them at Orenco Station. Where are they located in  
> Cornelius?
>
> Lisette
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Martha Khoury" <khourym at verizon.net>
> To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 5:02 PM
> Subject: [Grovenet] Hazelnut Retail Store is Back!
>
>
>> Back in Cornelius from a brief stint in Orenco Station. Yeah! -- 
>> Martha
>> K.
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From rab at jurislex.com  Thu Sep  3 10:30:13 2009
From: rab at jurislex.com (Bob Browning)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 10:30:13 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Some people should just get a life , , ,
Message-ID: <4A9FFD25.9040109@jurislex.com>

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From NoSpam03 at comcast.net  Thu Sep  3 10:51:37 2009
From: NoSpam03 at comcast.net (Steven)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 10:51:37 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Some people should just get a life , , ,
In-Reply-To: <4A9FFD25.9040109@jurislex.com>
Message-ID: <FBEAKAJNIJPKEDCBPHFNGEIBMIAA.NoSpam03@comcast.net>

Bob. Your bigotry is showing.
  -----Original Message-----
  From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com]On
Behalf Of Bob Browning
  Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 10:30 AM
  To: Grovenet
  Subject: [Grovenet] Some people should just get a life , , ,


  I don't recall tax and spend liberals pulling their kids out of school
when Dubya spoke. Is is possible that it actually has something to do with
O's color, that some parents don't want their kids to see an intelligent,
articulate black ! ? ! ?

  bob "enough already" browning
  +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


    Published Online: September 3, 2009
    Obama's Plan to Speak to Schoolchildren Ignites Furor
    By Matthew Haag and Theodore Kim, The Dallas Morning News (MCT)
    A groundswell of parent opposition to President Barack Obama's speech
next week to students on the importance of education has forced some school
districts to question whether to air it live in classrooms.

    Obama announced the speech weeks ago, but opposition and concerns spread
rapidly Wednesday morning through conservative social networking Web sites
and radio talk shows.

    By midday, school districts in North Texas say, they were inundated with
hundreds of phone calls from parents urging them to not show Obama's speech
at school.

    Some parents threatened to keep their children home from school if the
video was aired.

    "We had no idea that there would be a public outcry," said Laura Jobe, a
Mesquite ISD spokeswoman. "It caught us by surprise."

    Cody Cunningham of the McKinney ISD said: "We rarely hear of parents
pulling children out of history or government classes where they're studying
the politics or historical significance of a previous president."

    OBAMA'S EDUCATION EFFORTS
    President Barack Obama's nationally televised address to students
Tuesday is part of what the White House calls a continuation of his efforts
to use the bully pulpit to promote the value of education. Among other
efforts:

    ? The Department of Education has sent classroom materials to the
nation's schools to facilitate discussion of the president's message.
    ? The administration has enlisted top NASCAR drivers to tape public
service announcements touting the importance of school.
    ? Since taking office, Obama has pushed hard on his goal to reduce the
high school dropout rate and increase the number of students who attend and
graduate from college.
    ? The $787 billion economic stimulus plan included more than $100
billion for education, and Obama has frequently called on teachers and
parents to help students maximize their educational opportunities.

    SOURCE: Wire reports

    The White House said earlier that the speech -- to be shown on C-SPAN
and educational stations ? would focus on "the importance of education, the
importance of staying in school, how we want to improve our education system
and why it's so important for the country."

    Other presidents, including George H.W. Bush, have given similar
speeches directly to students.

    But some Dallas-area parents said Obama's speech amounts to partisan
propaganda. His critics have been even harsher.

    Jim Greer, chairman of the Florida Republican Party, said Tuesday that
the speech used taxpayer dollars "to spread President Obama's socialist
ideology."

    The White House said Tuesday that Obama hopes his speech will inspire
students and encourage them to set academic goals.

    "It's not a policy speech," said White House spokesman Tommy Vietor.
"It's a speech designed to encourage kids to stay in school, which I think
is a nonpartisan goal."

    School districts across the country have the option to choose whether
they show the president's address, which he's giving at 11 a.m. Dallas time
Tuesday at a Virginia high school.

    But vitriolic e-mails and angry calls from parents flooding school
district phone lines Wednesday morning forced many area districts to make
quick decisions about airing the speech:

    ? Plano ISD said it won't show the speech but will put links to the
video on its Web sites.

    ? Rockwall ISD said it might make watching the video optional in campus
libraries.

    ? The Dallas and Richardson districts are expected to decide today how
to proceed.

    Susan Dacus, a Wylie ISD spokeswoman, said, "All parents I have talked
to have been very negative."

    School officials there have decided not to make his speech a
districtwide activity but will let teachers incorporate it into the day's
lesson. Other districts, including Carrollton-Farmers Branch and Mesquite,
said they will probably do the same.

    Suggested lessons
    Arne Duncan, Department of Education secretary, informed principals of
the speech in a letter sent last week. He encouraged students to complete
suggested lessons that go along with the speech.

    One lesson plan for students in kindergarten through sixth grade
suggests children write down what they would say to students if they were
president. Another asks students to discuss, "Is President Obama inspiring
you to do anything? Is he challenging you to do anything?"

    McKinney ISD will make viewing the video optional. "It's a unique
opportunity," said Cunningham, the district spokesman.

    Allen school administrators have encouraged teachers to show the video,
but officials spent some time Wednesday urging parents not to withhold their
children from school that day. Allen, McKinney and other districts say those
absences won't be excused.

    Yet, parent Bill Hogsett said he figured half of the Frisco parents he
knew would keep their children home from school Tuesday.

    "It doesn't matter if it's a Republican or Democrat. We have a problem
with the government intruding on our lives," said Hogsett, who has a
5-year-old son in kindergarten.

    Garyld Miles, a father of twin first-graders at Eddins Elementary School
in McKinney, shared similar concerns.

    "It's dangerous grounds for a president to ask students to advocate his
policies for reform for education," he said. "That's exactly what he's
doing."

    Duncan said the intent of the speech and the lesson plans has been
misunderstood. The president, he said, won't be lobbying for policy changes
but will be calling for a "shared responsibility" among students, parents
and educators "to ensure that every child in every school receives the best
education possible."

    'Tool of indoctrination'
    Obama's speech has ignited partisan passions among conservative groups,
which accused him of injecting politics in the classroom.

    Neal McCluskey, associate director of the Center for Educational Freedom
at the conservative Cato Institute, said the lesson plans accompanying the
speech are "troubling."

    "Reasonable people can disagree" about Obama's policies, he said. "But
they don't want their kids to be indoctrinated. This is potentially a tool
of indoctrination."

    Fred Moses, chairman of the Collin County Republican Party, said he had
not heard anyone who was concerned about the speech.

    "As long as the president is not talking about his agenda or policies,
we all need to encourage our kids to do better," Moses said.

    Barb Walters, president of the Texas Democratic Women of Collin County,
contended the outrage is mostly manufactured.

    "Emotions are running so high in politics," she said. "People are just
shoving signs and fists into people's faces these days. Whatever happened to
civil discourse?"

    Larry J. Sabato, director of the Center for Politics at the University
of Virginia, said he doubted that Obama would risk criticism by giving a
political speech.

    "If this is simply a pep talk by the president of the United States to
schoolkids," Sabato said, "to me that is in the category of mother and apple
pie and the flag."

    Staff writers Todd J. Gillman, Sam Hodges, Jessica Meyers, Matt Peterson
and Valerie Wigglesworth contributed to this report.

    Copyright (c) 2009, The Dallas Morning News. Distributed by
McClatchy-Tribune Information Services.

    Vol. 29, Issue 03



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From edavie at verizon.net  Thu Sep  3 11:01:20 2009
From: edavie at verizon.net (Ed Davie)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 11:01:20 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Some people should just get a life , , ,
References: <FBEAKAJNIJPKEDCBPHFNGEIBMIAA.NoSpam03@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <00C94FA87F92480FA4D7E9CB35C760CB@EDavie>

Whose bigotry? Sounds like pure racism to me!
Ed
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Steven
  To: Forest Grove local interests list
  Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 10:51 AM
  Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Some people should just 
get a life , , ,


  Bob. Your bigotry is showing.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com 
[mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com]On
  Behalf Of Bob Browning
    Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 10:30 AM
    To: Grovenet
    Subject: [Grovenet] Some people should just 
get a life , , ,


    I don't recall tax and spend liberals pulling 
their kids out of school
  when Dubya spoke. Is is possible that it 
actually has something to do with
  O's color, that some parents don't want their 
kids to see an intelligent,
  articulate black ! ? ! ?

    bob "enough already" browning
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


      Published Online: September 3, 2009
      Obama's Plan to Speak to Schoolchildren 
Ignites Furor
      By Matthew Haag and Theodore Kim, The Dallas 
Morning News (MCT)
      A groundswell of parent opposition to 
President Barack Obama's speech
  next week to students on the importance of 
education has forced some school
  districts to question whether to air it live in 
classrooms.

      Obama announced the speech weeks ago, but 
opposition and concerns spread
  rapidly Wednesday morning through conservative 
social networking Web sites
  and radio talk shows.

      By midday, school districts in North Texas 
say, they were inundated with
  hundreds of phone calls from parents urging them 
to not show Obama's speech
  at school.

      Some parents threatened to keep their 
children home from school if the
  video was aired.

      "We had no idea that there would be a public 
outcry," said Laura Jobe, a
  Mesquite ISD spokeswoman. "It caught us by 
surprise."

      Cody Cunningham of the McKinney ISD said: 
"We rarely hear of parents
  pulling children out of history or government 
classes where they're studying
  the politics or historical significance of a 
previous president."

      OBAMA'S EDUCATION EFFORTS
      President Barack Obama's nationally 
televised address to students
  Tuesday is part of what the White House calls a 
continuation of his efforts
  to use the bully pulpit to promote the value of 
education. Among other
  efforts:

      . The Department of Education has sent 
classroom materials to the
  nation's schools to facilitate discussion of the 
president's message.
      . The administration has enlisted top NASCAR 
drivers to tape public
  service announcements touting the importance of 
school.
      . Since taking office, Obama has pushed hard 
on his goal to reduce the
  high school dropout rate and increase the number 
of students who attend and
  graduate from college.
      . The $787 billion economic stimulus plan 
included more than $100
  billion for education, and Obama has frequently 
called on teachers and
  parents to help students maximize their 
educational opportunities.

      SOURCE: Wire reports

      The White House said earlier that the 
speech -- to be shown on C-SPAN
  and educational stations - would focus on "the 
importance of education, the
  importance of staying in school, how we want to 
improve our education system
  and why it's so important for the country."

      Other presidents, including George H.W. 
Bush, have given similar
  speeches directly to students.

      But some Dallas-area parents said Obama's 
speech amounts to partisan
  propaganda. His critics have been even harsher.

      Jim Greer, chairman of the Florida 
Republican Party, said Tuesday that
  the speech used taxpayer dollars "to spread 
President Obama's socialist
  ideology."

      The White House said Tuesday that Obama 
hopes his speech will inspire
  students and encourage them to set academic 
goals.

      "It's not a policy speech," said White House 
spokesman Tommy Vietor.
  "It's a speech designed to encourage kids to 
stay in school, which I think
  is a nonpartisan goal."

      School districts across the country have the 
option to choose whether
  they show the president's address, which he's 
giving at 11 a.m. Dallas time
  Tuesday at a Virginia high school.

      But vitriolic e-mails and angry calls from 
parents flooding school
  district phone lines Wednesday morning forced 
many area districts to make
  quick decisions about airing the speech:

      . Plano ISD said it won't show the speech 
but will put links to the
  video on its Web sites.

      . Rockwall ISD said it might make watching 
the video optional in campus
  libraries.

      . The Dallas and Richardson districts are 
expected to decide today how
  to proceed.

      Susan Dacus, a Wylie ISD spokeswoman, said, 
"All parents I have talked
  to have been very negative."

      School officials there have decided not to 
make his speech a
  districtwide activity but will let teachers 
incorporate it into the day's
  lesson. Other districts, including 
Carrollton-Farmers Branch and Mesquite,
  said they will probably do the same.

      Suggested lessons
      Arne Duncan, Department of Education 
secretary, informed principals of
  the speech in a letter sent last week. He 
encouraged students to complete
  suggested lessons that go along with the speech.

      One lesson plan for students in kindergarten 
through sixth grade
  suggests children write down what they would say 
to students if they were
  president. Another asks students to discuss, "Is 
President Obama inspiring
  you to do anything? Is he challenging you to do 
anything?"

      McKinney ISD will make viewing the video 
optional. "It's a unique
  opportunity," said Cunningham, the district 
spokesman.

      Allen school administrators have encouraged 
teachers to show the video,
  but officials spent some time Wednesday urging 
parents not to withhold their
  children from school that day. Allen, McKinney 
and other districts say those
  absences won't be excused.

      Yet, parent Bill Hogsett said he figured 
half of the Frisco parents he
  knew would keep their children home from school 
Tuesday.

      "It doesn't matter if it's a Republican or 
Democrat. We have a problem
  with the government intruding on our lives," 
said Hogsett, who has a
  5-year-old son in kindergarten.

      Garyld Miles, a father of twin first-graders 
at Eddins Elementary School
  in McKinney, shared similar concerns.

      "It's dangerous grounds for a president to 
ask students to advocate his
  policies for reform for education," he said. 
"That's exactly what he's
  doing."

      Duncan said the intent of the speech and the 
lesson plans has been
  misunderstood. The president, he said, won't be 
lobbying for policy changes
  but will be calling for a "shared 
responsibility" among students, parents
  and educators "to ensure that every child in 
every school receives the best
  education possible."

      'Tool of indoctrination'
      Obama's speech has ignited partisan passions 
among conservative groups,
  which accused him of injecting politics in the 
classroom.

      Neal McCluskey, associate director of the 
Center for Educational Freedom
  at the conservative Cato Institute, said the 
lesson plans accompanying the
  speech are "troubling."

      "Reasonable people can disagree" about 
Obama's policies, he said. "But
  they don't want their kids to be indoctrinated. 
This is potentially a tool
  of indoctrination."

      Fred Moses, chairman of the Collin County 
Republican Party, said he had
  not heard anyone who was concerned about the 
speech.

      "As long as the president is not talking 
about his agenda or policies,
  we all need to encourage our kids to do better," 
Moses said.

      Barb Walters, president of the Texas 
Democratic Women of Collin County,
  contended the outrage is mostly manufactured.

      "Emotions are running so high in politics," 
she said. "People are just
  shoving signs and fists into people's faces 
these days. Whatever happened to
  civil discourse?"

      Larry J. Sabato, director of the Center for 
Politics at the University
  of Virginia, said he doubted that Obama would 
risk criticism by giving a
  political speech.

      "If this is simply a pep talk by the 
president of the United States to
  schoolkids," Sabato said, "to me that is in the 
category of mother and apple
  pie and the flag."

      Staff writers Todd J. Gillman, Sam Hodges, 
Jessica Meyers, Matt Peterson
  and Valerie Wigglesworth contributed to this 
report.

      Copyright (c) 2009, The Dallas Morning News. 
Distributed by
  McClatchy-Tribune Information Services.

      Vol. 29, Issue 03






------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  GroveNet mailing list
  GroveNet at rdrop.com
  http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

From NoSpam03 at comcast.net  Thu Sep  3 11:17:34 2009
From: NoSpam03 at comcast.net (Steven)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 11:17:34 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Some people should just get a life , , ,
In-Reply-To: <00C94FA87F92480FA4D7E9CB35C760CB@EDavie>
Message-ID: <FBEAKAJNIJPKEDCBPHFNMEICMIAA.NoSpam03@comcast.net>

Either way. I sure hope Bob is joking.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com]On
> Behalf Of Ed Davie
> Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 11:01 AM
> To: Forest Grove local interests list
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Some people should just get a life , , ,
>
>
> Whose bigotry? Sounds like pure racism to me!
> Ed
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Steven
>   To: Forest Grove local interests list
>   Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 10:51 AM
>   Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Some people should just
> get a life , , ,
>
>
>   Bob. Your bigotry is showing.
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com
> [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com]On
>   Behalf Of Bob Browning
>     Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 10:30 AM
>     To: Grovenet
>     Subject: [Grovenet] Some people should just
> get a life , , ,
>
>
>     I don't recall tax and spend liberals pulling
> their kids out of school
>   when Dubya spoke. Is is possible that it
> actually has something to do with
>   O's color, that some parents don't want their
> kids to see an intelligent,
>   articulate black ! ? ! ?
>
>     bob "enough already" browning
>     +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
>       Published Online: September 3, 2009
>       Obama's Plan to Speak to Schoolchildren
> Ignites Furor
>       By Matthew Haag and Theodore Kim, The Dallas
> Morning News (MCT)
>       A groundswell of parent opposition to
> President Barack Obama's speech
>   next week to students on the importance of
> education has forced some school
>   districts to question whether to air it live in
> classrooms.
>
>       Obama announced the speech weeks ago, but
> opposition and concerns spread
>   rapidly Wednesday morning through conservative
> social networking Web sites
>   and radio talk shows.
>
>       By midday, school districts in North Texas
> say, they were inundated with
>   hundreds of phone calls from parents urging them
> to not show Obama's speech
>   at school.
>
>       Some parents threatened to keep their
> children home from school if the
>   video was aired.
>
>       "We had no idea that there would be a public
> outcry," said Laura Jobe, a
>   Mesquite ISD spokeswoman. "It caught us by
> surprise."
>
>       Cody Cunningham of the McKinney ISD said:
> "We rarely hear of parents
>   pulling children out of history or government
> classes where they're studying
>   the politics or historical significance of a
> previous president."
>
>       OBAMA'S EDUCATION EFFORTS
>       President Barack Obama's nationally
> televised address to students
>   Tuesday is part of what the White House calls a
> continuation of his efforts
>   to use the bully pulpit to promote the value of
> education. Among other
>   efforts:
>
>       . The Department of Education has sent
> classroom materials to the
>   nation's schools to facilitate discussion of the
> president's message.
>       . The administration has enlisted top NASCAR
> drivers to tape public
>   service announcements touting the importance of
> school.
>       . Since taking office, Obama has pushed hard
> on his goal to reduce the
>   high school dropout rate and increase the number
> of students who attend and
>   graduate from college.
>       . The $787 billion economic stimulus plan
> included more than $100
>   billion for education, and Obama has frequently
> called on teachers and
>   parents to help students maximize their
> educational opportunities.
>
>       SOURCE: Wire reports
>
>       The White House said earlier that the
> speech -- to be shown on C-SPAN
>   and educational stations - would focus on "the
> importance of education, the
>   importance of staying in school, how we want to
> improve our education system
>   and why it's so important for the country."
>
>       Other presidents, including George H.W.
> Bush, have given similar
>   speeches directly to students.
>
>       But some Dallas-area parents said Obama's
> speech amounts to partisan
>   propaganda. His critics have been even harsher.
>
>       Jim Greer, chairman of the Florida
> Republican Party, said Tuesday that
>   the speech used taxpayer dollars "to spread
> President Obama's socialist
>   ideology."
>
>       The White House said Tuesday that Obama
> hopes his speech will inspire
>   students and encourage them to set academic
> goals.
>
>       "It's not a policy speech," said White House
> spokesman Tommy Vietor.
>   "It's a speech designed to encourage kids to
> stay in school, which I think
>   is a nonpartisan goal."
>
>       School districts across the country have the
> option to choose whether
>   they show the president's address, which he's
> giving at 11 a.m. Dallas time
>   Tuesday at a Virginia high school.
>
>       But vitriolic e-mails and angry calls from
> parents flooding school
>   district phone lines Wednesday morning forced
> many area districts to make
>   quick decisions about airing the speech:
>
>       . Plano ISD said it won't show the speech
> but will put links to the
>   video on its Web sites.
>
>       . Rockwall ISD said it might make watching
> the video optional in campus
>   libraries.
>
>       . The Dallas and Richardson districts are
> expected to decide today how
>   to proceed.
>
>       Susan Dacus, a Wylie ISD spokeswoman, said,
> "All parents I have talked
>   to have been very negative."
>
>       School officials there have decided not to
> make his speech a
>   districtwide activity but will let teachers
> incorporate it into the day's
>   lesson. Other districts, including
> Carrollton-Farmers Branch and Mesquite,
>   said they will probably do the same.
>
>       Suggested lessons
>       Arne Duncan, Department of Education
> secretary, informed principals of
>   the speech in a letter sent last week. He
> encouraged students to complete
>   suggested lessons that go along with the speech.
>
>       One lesson plan for students in kindergarten
> through sixth grade
>   suggests children write down what they would say
> to students if they were
>   president. Another asks students to discuss, "Is
> President Obama inspiring
>   you to do anything? Is he challenging you to do
> anything?"
>
>       McKinney ISD will make viewing the video
> optional. "It's a unique
>   opportunity," said Cunningham, the district
> spokesman.
>
>       Allen school administrators have encouraged
> teachers to show the video,
>   but officials spent some time Wednesday urging
> parents not to withhold their
>   children from school that day. Allen, McKinney
> and other districts say those
>   absences won't be excused.
>
>       Yet, parent Bill Hogsett said he figured
> half of the Frisco parents he
>   knew would keep their children home from school
> Tuesday.
>
>       "It doesn't matter if it's a Republican or
> Democrat. We have a problem
>   with the government intruding on our lives,"
> said Hogsett, who has a
>   5-year-old son in kindergarten.
>
>       Garyld Miles, a father of twin first-graders
> at Eddins Elementary School
>   in McKinney, shared similar concerns.
>
>       "It's dangerous grounds for a president to
> ask students to advocate his
>   policies for reform for education," he said.
> "That's exactly what he's
>   doing."
>
>       Duncan said the intent of the speech and the
> lesson plans has been
>   misunderstood. The president, he said, won't be
> lobbying for policy changes
>   but will be calling for a "shared
> responsibility" among students, parents
>   and educators "to ensure that every child in
> every school receives the best
>   education possible."
>
>       'Tool of indoctrination'
>       Obama's speech has ignited partisan passions
> among conservative groups,
>   which accused him of injecting politics in the
> classroom.
>
>       Neal McCluskey, associate director of the
> Center for Educational Freedom
>   at the conservative Cato Institute, said the
> lesson plans accompanying the
>   speech are "troubling."
>
>       "Reasonable people can disagree" about
> Obama's policies, he said. "But
>   they don't want their kids to be indoctrinated.
> This is potentially a tool
>   of indoctrination."
>
>       Fred Moses, chairman of the Collin County
> Republican Party, said he had
>   not heard anyone who was concerned about the
> speech.
>
>       "As long as the president is not talking
> about his agenda or policies,
>   we all need to encourage our kids to do better,"
> Moses said.
>
>       Barb Walters, president of the Texas
> Democratic Women of Collin County,
>   contended the outrage is mostly manufactured.
>
>       "Emotions are running so high in politics,"
> she said. "People are just
>   shoving signs and fists into people's faces
> these days. Whatever happened to
>   civil discourse?"
>
>       Larry J. Sabato, director of the Center for
> Politics at the University
>   of Virginia, said he doubted that Obama would
> risk criticism by giving a
>   political speech.
>
>       "If this is simply a pep talk by the
> president of the United States to
>   schoolkids," Sabato said, "to me that is in the
> category of mother and apple
>   pie and the flag."
>
>       Staff writers Todd J. Gillman, Sam Hodges,
> Jessica Meyers, Matt Peterson
>   and Valerie Wigglesworth contributed to this
> report.
>
>       Copyright (c) 2009, The Dallas Morning News.
> Distributed by
>   McClatchy-Tribune Information Services.
>
>       Vol. 29, Issue 03
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   GroveNet mailing list
>   GroveNet at rdrop.com
>   http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>


From allnutt at verizon.net  Thu Sep  3 12:17:05 2009
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 12:17:05 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Some people should just get a life , , ,
In-Reply-To: <FBEAKAJNIJPKEDCBPHFNGEIBMIAA.NoSpam03@comcast.net>
References: <FBEAKAJNIJPKEDCBPHFNGEIBMIAA.NoSpam03@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <ABA85056-0A9D-44A7-8F41-7D8B81304234@verizon.net>

Yes, he should have said balanced budget liberals (tax and spend  
equally like Clinton as opposed to the spend us into debt like  
Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II)*.
His softness on the Republicans is showing just like you claim Steven.

Katie
*Obama will have to cut war spending if he doesn't want to wind up  
being thrown in with the deficit defender Republicans of the past 30  
years.


On Sep 3, 2009, at 10:51 AM, Steven wrote:

> Bob. Your bigotry is showing.
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet- 
> bounces at rdrop.com]On
> Behalf Of Bob Browning
>   Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 10:30 AM
>   To: Grovenet
>   Subject: [Grovenet] Some people should just get a life , , ,
>
>
>   I don't recall tax and spend liberals pulling their kids out of  
> school
> when Dubya spoke. Is is possible that it actually has something to  
> do with
> O's color, that some parents don't want their kids to see an  
> intelligent,
> articulate black ! ? ! ?
>
>   bob "enough already" browning
>   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
>     Published Online: September 3, 2009
>     Obama's Plan to Speak to Schoolchildren Ignites Furor
>     By Matthew Haag and Theodore Kim, The Dallas Morning News (MCT)
>     A groundswell of parent opposition to President Barack Obama's  
> speech
> next week to students on the importance of education has forced  
> some school
> districts to question whether to air it live in classrooms.
>
>     Obama announced the speech weeks ago, but opposition and  
> concerns spread
> rapidly Wednesday morning through conservative social networking  
> Web sites
> and radio talk shows.
>
>     By midday, school districts in North Texas say, they were  
> inundated with
> hundreds of phone calls from parents urging them to not show  
> Obama's speech
> at school.
>
>     Some parents threatened to keep their children home from school  
> if the
> video was aired.
>
>     "We had no idea that there would be a public outcry," said  
> Laura Jobe, a
> Mesquite ISD spokeswoman. "It caught us by surprise."
>
>     Cody Cunningham of the McKinney ISD said: "We rarely hear of  
> parents
> pulling children out of history or government classes where they're  
> studying
> the politics or historical significance of a previous president."
>
>     OBAMA'S EDUCATION EFFORTS
>     President Barack Obama's nationally televised address to students
> Tuesday is part of what the White House calls a continuation of his  
> efforts
> to use the bully pulpit to promote the value of education. Among other
> efforts:
>
>     ? The Department of Education has sent classroom materials to the
> nation's schools to facilitate discussion of the president's message.
>     ? The administration has enlisted top NASCAR drivers to tape  
> public
> service announcements touting the importance of school.
>     ? Since taking office, Obama has pushed hard on his goal to  
> reduce the
> high school dropout rate and increase the number of students who  
> attend and
> graduate from college.
>     ? The $787 billion economic stimulus plan included more than $100
> billion for education, and Obama has frequently called on teachers and
> parents to help students maximize their educational opportunities.
>
>     SOURCE: Wire reports
>
>     The White House said earlier that the speech -- to be shown on  
> C-SPAN
> and educational stations ? would focus on "the importance of  
> education, the
> importance of staying in school, how we want to improve our  
> education system
> and why it's so important for the country."
>
>     Other presidents, including George H.W. Bush, have given similar
> speeches directly to students.
>
>     But some Dallas-area parents said Obama's speech amounts to  
> partisan
> propaganda. His critics have been even harsher.
>
>     Jim Greer, chairman of the Florida Republican Party, said  
> Tuesday that
> the speech used taxpayer dollars "to spread President Obama's  
> socialist
> ideology."
>
>     The White House said Tuesday that Obama hopes his speech will  
> inspire
> students and encourage them to set academic goals.
>
>     "It's not a policy speech," said White House spokesman Tommy  
> Vietor.
> "It's a speech designed to encourage kids to stay in school, which  
> I think
> is a nonpartisan goal."
>
>     School districts across the country have the option to choose  
> whether
> they show the president's address, which he's giving at 11 a.m.  
> Dallas time
> Tuesday at a Virginia high school.
>
>     But vitriolic e-mails and angry calls from parents flooding school
> district phone lines Wednesday morning forced many area districts  
> to make
> quick decisions about airing the speech:
>
>     ? Plano ISD said it won't show the speech but will put links to  
> the
> video on its Web sites.
>
>     ? Rockwall ISD said it might make watching the video optional  
> in campus
> libraries.
>
>     ? The Dallas and Richardson districts are expected to decide  
> today how
> to proceed.
>
>     Susan Dacus, a Wylie ISD spokeswoman, said, "All parents I have  
> talked
> to have been very negative."
>
>     School officials there have decided not to make his speech a
> districtwide activity but will let teachers incorporate it into the  
> day's
> lesson. Other districts, including Carrollton-Farmers Branch and  
> Mesquite,
> said they will probably do the same.
>
>     Suggested lessons
>     Arne Duncan, Department of Education secretary, informed  
> principals of
> the speech in a letter sent last week. He encouraged students to  
> complete
> suggested lessons that go along with the speech.
>
>     One lesson plan for students in kindergarten through sixth grade
> suggests children write down what they would say to students if  
> they were
> president. Another asks students to discuss, "Is President Obama  
> inspiring
> you to do anything? Is he challenging you to do anything?"
>
>     McKinney ISD will make viewing the video optional. "It's a unique
> opportunity," said Cunningham, the district spokesman.
>
>     Allen school administrators have encouraged teachers to show  
> the video,
> but officials spent some time Wednesday urging parents not to  
> withhold their
> children from school that day. Allen, McKinney and other districts  
> say those
> absences won't be excused.
>
>     Yet, parent Bill Hogsett said he figured half of the Frisco  
> parents he
> knew would keep their children home from school Tuesday.
>
>     "It doesn't matter if it's a Republican or Democrat. We have a  
> problem
> with the government intruding on our lives," said Hogsett, who has a
> 5-year-old son in kindergarten.
>
>     Garyld Miles, a father of twin first-graders at Eddins  
> Elementary School
> in McKinney, shared similar concerns.
>
>     "It's dangerous grounds for a president to ask students to  
> advocate his
> policies for reform for education," he said. "That's exactly what he's
> doing."
>
>     Duncan said the intent of the speech and the lesson plans has been
> misunderstood. The president, he said, won't be lobbying for policy  
> changes
> but will be calling for a "shared responsibility" among students,  
> parents
> and educators "to ensure that every child in every school receives  
> the best
> education possible."
>
>     'Tool of indoctrination'
>     Obama's speech has ignited partisan passions among conservative  
> groups,
> which accused him of injecting politics in the classroom.
>
>     Neal McCluskey, associate director of the Center for  
> Educational Freedom
> at the conservative Cato Institute, said the lesson plans  
> accompanying the
> speech are "troubling."
>
>     "Reasonable people can disagree" about Obama's policies, he  
> said. "But
> they don't want their kids to be indoctrinated. This is potentially  
> a tool
> of indoctrination."
>
>     Fred Moses, chairman of the Collin County Republican Party,  
> said he had
> not heard anyone who was concerned about the speech.
>
>     "As long as the president is not talking about his agenda or  
> policies,
> we all need to encourage our kids to do better," Moses said.
>
>     Barb Walters, president of the Texas Democratic Women of Collin  
> County,
> contended the outrage is mostly manufactured.
>
>     "Emotions are running so high in politics," she said. "People  
> are just
> shoving signs and fists into people's faces these days. Whatever  
> happened to
> civil discourse?"
>
>     Larry J. Sabato, director of the Center for Politics at the  
> University
> of Virginia, said he doubted that Obama would risk criticism by  
> giving a
> political speech.
>
>     "If this is simply a pep talk by the president of the United  
> States to
> schoolkids," Sabato said, "to me that is in the category of mother  
> and apple
> pie and the flag."
>
>     Staff writers Todd J. Gillman, Sam Hodges, Jessica Meyers, Matt  
> Peterson
> and Valerie Wigglesworth contributed to this report.
>
>     Copyright (c) 2009, The Dallas Morning News. Distributed by
> McClatchy-Tribune Information Services.
>
>     Vol. 29, Issue 03
>
>
>
> <ewlogo-print.jpg>_______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From waltw at teleport.com  Thu Sep  3 12:26:53 2009
From: waltw at teleport.com (Walt Wentz)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 12:26:53 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Some people should just get a life , , ,
In-Reply-To: <FBEAKAJNIJPKEDCBPHFNMEICMIAA.NoSpam03@comcast.net>
References: <FBEAKAJNIJPKEDCBPHFNMEICMIAA.NoSpam03@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <854FD2D7-FC82-4321-8EFB-D9BA00E178F6@teleport.com>

Note that Bob says, "Could it be?"
And, judging from the excessive and misdirected emotions described in  
the article, I would be forced to concede, "Yes, it damn well COULD be."
For all the babble about "agendas" and "socialism" and "ideologies"  
and other cerebral concepts, the level of naked anger and  
unwillingness to compromise seems completely disproportionate. What  
could possibly explain this extreme reaction, hmmmm? Let me think,   
now...
Face it... racism is the elephant in the middle of the room, and  
until we acknowledge its presence we will continue shouting past each  
other.
Walt "Somefolks" Wentz
On Sep 3, 2009, at 11:17 AM, Steven wrote:

> Either way. I sure hope Bob is joking.
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet- 
>> bounces at rdrop.com]On
>> Behalf Of Ed Davie
>> Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 11:01 AM
>> To: Forest Grove local interests list
>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Some people should just get a life , , ,
>>
>>
>> Whose bigotry? Sounds like pure racism to me!
>> Ed
>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>   From: Steven
>>   To: Forest Grove local interests list
>>   Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 10:51 AM
>>   Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Some people should just
>> get a life , , ,
>>
>>
>>   Bob. Your bigotry is showing.
>>     -----Original Message-----
>>     From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com
>> [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com]On
>>   Behalf Of Bob Browning
>>     Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 10:30 AM
>>     To: Grovenet
>>     Subject: [Grovenet] Some people should just
>> get a life , , ,
>>
>>
>>     I don't recall tax and spend liberals pulling
>> their kids out of school
>>   when Dubya spoke. Is is possible that it
>> actually has something to do with
>>   O's color, that some parents don't want their
>> kids to see an intelligent,
>>   articulate black ! ? ! ?
>>
>>     bob "enough already" browning
>>     +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>
>>
>>       Published Online: September 3, 2009
>>       Obama's Plan to Speak to Schoolchildren
>> Ignites Furor
>>       By Matthew Haag and Theodore Kim, The Dallas
>> Morning News (MCT)
>>       A groundswell of parent opposition to
>> President Barack Obama's speech
>>   next week to students on the importance of
>> education has forced some school
>>   districts to question whether to air it live in
>> classrooms.
>>
>>       Obama announced the speech weeks ago, but
>> opposition and concerns spread
>>   rapidly Wednesday morning through conservative
>> social networking Web sites
>>   and radio talk shows.
>>
>>       By midday, school districts in North Texas
>> say, they were inundated with
>>   hundreds of phone calls from parents urging them
>> to not show Obama's speech
>>   at school.
>>
>>       Some parents threatened to keep their
>> children home from school if the
>>   video was aired.
>>
>>       "We had no idea that there would be a public
>> outcry," said Laura Jobe, a
>>   Mesquite ISD spokeswoman. "It caught us by
>> surprise."
>>
>>       Cody Cunningham of the McKinney ISD said:
>> "We rarely hear of parents
>>   pulling children out of history or government
>> classes where they're studying
>>   the politics or historical significance of a
>> previous president."
>>
>>       OBAMA'S EDUCATION EFFORTS
>>       President Barack Obama's nationally
>> televised address to students
>>   Tuesday is part of what the White House calls a
>> continuation of his efforts
>>   to use the bully pulpit to promote the value of
>> education. Among other
>>   efforts:
>>
>>       . The Department of Education has sent
>> classroom materials to the
>>   nation's schools to facilitate discussion of the
>> president's message.
>>       . The administration has enlisted top NASCAR
>> drivers to tape public
>>   service announcements touting the importance of
>> school.
>>       . Since taking office, Obama has pushed hard
>> on his goal to reduce the
>>   high school dropout rate and increase the number
>> of students who attend and
>>   graduate from college.
>>       . The $787 billion economic stimulus plan
>> included more than $100
>>   billion for education, and Obama has frequently
>> called on teachers and
>>   parents to help students maximize their
>> educational opportunities.
>>
>>       SOURCE: Wire reports
>>
>>       The White House said earlier that the
>> speech -- to be shown on C-SPAN
>>   and educational stations - would focus on "the
>> importance of education, the
>>   importance of staying in school, how we want to
>> improve our education system
>>   and why it's so important for the country."
>>
>>       Other presidents, including George H.W.
>> Bush, have given similar
>>   speeches directly to students.
>>
>>       But some Dallas-area parents said Obama's
>> speech amounts to partisan
>>   propaganda. His critics have been even harsher.
>>
>>       Jim Greer, chairman of the Florida
>> Republican Party, said Tuesday that
>>   the speech used taxpayer dollars "to spread
>> President Obama's socialist
>>   ideology."
>>
>>       The White House said Tuesday that Obama
>> hopes his speech will inspire
>>   students and encourage them to set academic
>> goals.
>>
>>       "It's not a policy speech," said White House
>> spokesman Tommy Vietor.
>>   "It's a speech designed to encourage kids to
>> stay in school, which I think
>>   is a nonpartisan goal."
>>
>>       School districts across the country have the
>> option to choose whether
>>   they show the president's address, which he's
>> giving at 11 a.m. Dallas time
>>   Tuesday at a Virginia high school.
>>
>>       But vitriolic e-mails and angry calls from
>> parents flooding school
>>   district phone lines Wednesday morning forced
>> many area districts to make
>>   quick decisions about airing the speech:
>>
>>       . Plano ISD said it won't show the speech
>> but will put links to the
>>   video on its Web sites.
>>
>>       . Rockwall ISD said it might make watching
>> the video optional in campus
>>   libraries.
>>
>>       . The Dallas and Richardson districts are
>> expected to decide today how
>>   to proceed.
>>
>>       Susan Dacus, a Wylie ISD spokeswoman, said,
>> "All parents I have talked
>>   to have been very negative."
>>
>>       School officials there have decided not to
>> make his speech a
>>   districtwide activity but will let teachers
>> incorporate it into the day's
>>   lesson. Other districts, including
>> Carrollton-Farmers Branch and Mesquite,
>>   said they will probably do the same.
>>
>>       Suggested lessons
>>       Arne Duncan, Department of Education
>> secretary, informed principals of
>>   the speech in a letter sent last week. He
>> encouraged students to complete
>>   suggested lessons that go along with the speech.
>>
>>       One lesson plan for students in kindergarten
>> through sixth grade
>>   suggests children write down what they would say
>> to students if they were
>>   president. Another asks students to discuss, "Is
>> President Obama inspiring
>>   you to do anything? Is he challenging you to do
>> anything?"
>>
>>       McKinney ISD will make viewing the video
>> optional. "It's a unique
>>   opportunity," said Cunningham, the district
>> spokesman.
>>
>>       Allen school administrators have encouraged
>> teachers to show the video,
>>   but officials spent some time Wednesday urging
>> parents not to withhold their
>>   children from school that day. Allen, McKinney
>> and other districts say those
>>   absences won't be excused.
>>
>>       Yet, parent Bill Hogsett said he figured
>> half of the Frisco parents he
>>   knew would keep their children home from school
>> Tuesday.
>>
>>       "It doesn't matter if it's a Republican or
>> Democrat. We have a problem
>>   with the government intruding on our lives,"
>> said Hogsett, who has a
>>   5-year-old son in kindergarten.
>>
>>       Garyld Miles, a father of twin first-graders
>> at Eddins Elementary School
>>   in McKinney, shared similar concerns.
>>
>>       "It's dangerous grounds for a president to
>> ask students to advocate his
>>   policies for reform for education," he said.
>> "That's exactly what he's
>>   doing."
>>
>>       Duncan said the intent of the speech and the
>> lesson plans has been
>>   misunderstood. The president, he said, won't be
>> lobbying for policy changes
>>   but will be calling for a "shared
>> responsibility" among students, parents
>>   and educators "to ensure that every child in
>> every school receives the best
>>   education possible."
>>
>>       'Tool of indoctrination'
>>       Obama's speech has ignited partisan passions
>> among conservative groups,
>>   which accused him of injecting politics in the
>> classroom.
>>
>>       Neal McCluskey, associate director of the
>> Center for Educational Freedom
>>   at the conservative Cato Institute, said the
>> lesson plans accompanying the
>>   speech are "troubling."
>>
>>       "Reasonable people can disagree" about
>> Obama's policies, he said. "But
>>   they don't want their kids to be indoctrinated.
>> This is potentially a tool
>>   of indoctrination."
>>
>>       Fred Moses, chairman of the Collin County
>> Republican Party, said he had
>>   not heard anyone who was concerned about the
>> speech.
>>
>>       "As long as the president is not talking
>> about his agenda or policies,
>>   we all need to encourage our kids to do better,"
>> Moses said.
>>
>>       Barb Walters, president of the Texas
>> Democratic Women of Collin County,
>>   contended the outrage is mostly manufactured.
>>
>>       "Emotions are running so high in politics,"
>> she said. "People are just
>>   shoving signs and fists into people's faces
>> these days. Whatever happened to
>>   civil discourse?"
>>
>>       Larry J. Sabato, director of the Center for
>> Politics at the University
>>   of Virginia, said he doubted that Obama would
>> risk criticism by giving a
>>   political speech.
>>
>>       "If this is simply a pep talk by the
>> president of the United States to
>>   schoolkids," Sabato said, "to me that is in the
>> category of mother and apple
>>   pie and the flag."
>>
>>       Staff writers Todd J. Gillman, Sam Hodges,
>> Jessica Meyers, Matt Peterson
>>   and Valerie Wigglesworth contributed to this
>> report.
>>
>>       Copyright (c) 2009, The Dallas Morning News.
>> Distributed by
>>   McClatchy-Tribune Information Services.
>>
>>       Vol. 29, Issue 03
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> -----
>> ----
>>
>>
>>   _______________________________________________
>>   GroveNet mailing list
>>   GroveNet at rdrop.com
>>   http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From rab at jurislex.com  Thu Sep  3 12:40:07 2009
From: rab at jurislex.com (Bob Browning)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 12:40:07 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Some people should just get a life , , ,
In-Reply-To: <FBEAKAJNIJPKEDCBPHFNGEIBMIAA.NoSpam03@comcast.net>
References: <FBEAKAJNIJPKEDCBPHFNGEIBMIAA.NoSpam03@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4AA01B97.9080603@jurislex.com>

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From rab at jurislex.com  Thu Sep  3 15:34:52 2009
From: rab at jurislex.com (Bob Browning)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 15:34:52 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Calling all gleaners . . . .
Message-ID: <4AA0448C.5020809@jurislex.com>

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From jschrag at fgnewstimes.com  Fri Sep  4 08:00:31 2009
From: jschrag at fgnewstimes.com (John Schrag)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 08:00:31 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] City Council applicant list grows
In-Reply-To: <4AA0448C.5020809@jurislex.com>
References: <4AA0448C.5020809@jurislex.com>
Message-ID: <94708915321246C0B9680D6A81B07BC4@pmg.pamplincom.com>

http://www.forestgrovenewstimes.com/news/story.php?story_id=1252076236430240
00

 

Only nine hours left to join the fun! (Application deadline is 5 p.m. today)

 

 

John Schrag

Editor & Publisher 

News-Times

Forest Grove, Oregon

503-357-3181

 

Voted the "best small newspaper in Oregon" 2006, 2007, 2008

 

 

 

 

 

 


From rab at jurislex.com  Fri Sep  4 11:57:21 2009
From: rab at jurislex.com (Bob Browning)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 11:57:21 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Pears
Message-ID: <4AA16311.5070901@jurislex.com>

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From rab at jurislex.com  Fri Sep  4 12:04:59 2009
From: rab at jurislex.com (Bob Browning)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 12:04:59 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Forest Grove Chamber Friday Flash News Update 9/4/09
In-Reply-To: <68F693D9887544509B4456ADF9332CA1@Teri>
References: <68F693D9887544509B4456ADF9332CA1@Teri>
Message-ID: <4AA164DB.10300@jurislex.com>

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From NoSpam03 at comcast.net  Fri Sep  4 12:36:17 2009
From: NoSpam03 at comcast.net (Steven)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 12:36:17 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Some people should just get a life , , ,
In-Reply-To: <854FD2D7-FC82-4321-8EFB-D9BA00E178F6@teleport.com>
Message-ID: <FBEAKAJNIJPKEDCBPHFNMEALMBAA.NoSpam03@comcast.net>

Calling people racist over their political disagreement where none is 
shown is sick egotism, bigotry and hatred. Anyone who truly believe
this lie are left wing nuts.
Since I disagree with several of this administration's moves, you are
calling me a racist. I consider that an insult.
Thus I call those who believe this lie to be buffalo excrement. Please
don't have a nice day.

Have you heard about MSNBC's news story about the guy who took a
rifle to a Town Hall meeting in AZ? He was called a white racist.
Problem is the guy is black. They edited the video to remove shots
of his head so you couldn't tell. Feeding the buffalo.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com]On
> Behalf Of Walt Wentz
> Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 12:27 PM
> To: Forest Grove local interests list
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Some people should just get a life , , ,
> 
> 
> Note that Bob says, "Could it be?"
> And, judging from the excessive and misdirected emotions described in  
> the article, I would be forced to concede, "Yes, it damn well COULD be."
> For all the babble about "agendas" and "socialism" and "ideologies"  
> and other cerebral concepts, the level of naked anger and  
> unwillingness to compromise seems completely disproportionate. What  
> could possibly explain this extreme reaction, hmmmm? Let me think,   
> now...
> Face it... racism is the elephant in the middle of the room, and  
> until we acknowledge its presence we will continue shouting past each  
> other.
> Walt "Somefolks" Wentz
> On Sep 3, 2009, at 11:17 AM, Steven wrote:
> 
> > Either way. I sure hope Bob is joking.
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet- 
> >> bounces at rdrop.com]On
> >> Behalf Of Ed Davie
> >> Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 11:01 AM
> >> To: Forest Grove local interests list
> >> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Some people should just get a life , , ,
> >>
> >>
> >> Whose bigotry? Sounds like pure racism to me!
> >> Ed
> >>   ----- Original Message -----
> >>   From: Steven
> >>   To: Forest Grove local interests list
> >>   Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 10:51 AM
> >>   Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Some people should just
> >> get a life , , ,
> >>
> >>
> >>   Bob. Your bigotry is showing.
> >>     -----Original Message-----
> >>     From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com
> >> [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com]On
> >>   Behalf Of Bob Browning
> >>     Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 10:30 AM
> >>     To: Grovenet
> >>     Subject: [Grovenet] Some people should just
> >> get a life , , ,
> >>
> >>
> >>     I don't recall tax and spend liberals pulling
> >> their kids out of school
> >>   when Dubya spoke. Is is possible that it
> >> actually has something to do with
> >>   O's color, that some parents don't want their
> >> kids to see an intelligent,
> >>   articulate black ! ? ! ?
> >>
> >>     bob "enough already" browning
> >>     +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >>
> >>
> >>       Published Online: September 3, 2009
> >>       Obama's Plan to Speak to Schoolchildren
> >> Ignites Furor
> >>       By Matthew Haag and Theodore Kim, The Dallas
> >> Morning News (MCT)
> >>       A groundswell of parent opposition to
> >> President Barack Obama's speech
> >>   next week to students on the importance of
> >> education has forced some school
> >>   districts to question whether to air it live in
> >> classrooms.
> >>
> >>       Obama announced the speech weeks ago, but
> >> opposition and concerns spread
> >>   rapidly Wednesday morning through conservative
> >> social networking Web sites
> >>   and radio talk shows.
> >>
> >>       By midday, school districts in North Texas
> >> say, they were inundated with
> >>   hundreds of phone calls from parents urging them
> >> to not show Obama's speech
> >>   at school.
> >>
> >>       Some parents threatened to keep their
> >> children home from school if the
> >>   video was aired.
> >>
> >>       "We had no idea that there would be a public
> >> outcry," said Laura Jobe, a
> >>   Mesquite ISD spokeswoman. "It caught us by
> >> surprise."
> >>
> >>       Cody Cunningham of the McKinney ISD said:
> >> "We rarely hear of parents
> >>   pulling children out of history or government
> >> classes where they're studying
> >>   the politics or historical significance of a
> >> previous president."
> >>
> >>       OBAMA'S EDUCATION EFFORTS
> >>       President Barack Obama's nationally
> >> televised address to students
> >>   Tuesday is part of what the White House calls a
> >> continuation of his efforts
> >>   to use the bully pulpit to promote the value of
> >> education. Among other
> >>   efforts:
> >>
> >>       . The Department of Education has sent
> >> classroom materials to the
> >>   nation's schools to facilitate discussion of the
> >> president's message.
> >>       . The administration has enlisted top NASCAR
> >> drivers to tape public
> >>   service announcements touting the importance of
> >> school.
> >>       . Since taking office, Obama has pushed hard
> >> on his goal to reduce the
> >>   high school dropout rate and increase the number
> >> of students who attend and
> >>   graduate from college.
> >>       . The $787 billion economic stimulus plan
> >> included more than $100
> >>   billion for education, and Obama has frequently
> >> called on teachers and
> >>   parents to help students maximize their
> >> educational opportunities.
> >>
> >>       SOURCE: Wire reports
> >>
> >>       The White House said earlier that the
> >> speech -- to be shown on C-SPAN
> >>   and educational stations - would focus on "the
> >> importance of education, the
> >>   importance of staying in school, how we want to
> >> improve our education system
> >>   and why it's so important for the country."
> >>
> >>       Other presidents, including George H.W.
> >> Bush, have given similar
> >>   speeches directly to students.
> >>
> >>       But some Dallas-area parents said Obama's
> >> speech amounts to partisan
> >>   propaganda. His critics have been even harsher.
> >>
> >>       Jim Greer, chairman of the Florida
> >> Republican Party, said Tuesday that
> >>   the speech used taxpayer dollars "to spread
> >> President Obama's socialist
> >>   ideology."
> >>
> >>       The White House said Tuesday that Obama
> >> hopes his speech will inspire
> >>   students and encourage them to set academic
> >> goals.
> >>
> >>       "It's not a policy speech," said White House
> >> spokesman Tommy Vietor.
> >>   "It's a speech designed to encourage kids to
> >> stay in school, which I think
> >>   is a nonpartisan goal."
> >>
> >>       School districts across the country have the
> >> option to choose whether
> >>   they show the president's address, which he's
> >> giving at 11 a.m. Dallas time
> >>   Tuesday at a Virginia high school.
> >>
> >>       But vitriolic e-mails and angry calls from
> >> parents flooding school
> >>   district phone lines Wednesday morning forced
> >> many area districts to make
> >>   quick decisions about airing the speech:
> >>
> >>       . Plano ISD said it won't show the speech
> >> but will put links to the
> >>   video on its Web sites.
> >>
> >>       . Rockwall ISD said it might make watching
> >> the video optional in campus
> >>   libraries.
> >>
> >>       . The Dallas and Richardson districts are
> >> expected to decide today how
> >>   to proceed.
> >>
> >>       Susan Dacus, a Wylie ISD spokeswoman, said,
> >> "All parents I have talked
> >>   to have been very negative."
> >>
> >>       School officials there have decided not to
> >> make his speech a
> >>   districtwide activity but will let teachers
> >> incorporate it into the day's
> >>   lesson. Other districts, including
> >> Carrollton-Farmers Branch and Mesquite,
> >>   said they will probably do the same.
> >>
> >>       Suggested lessons
> >>       Arne Duncan, Department of Education
> >> secretary, informed principals of
> >>   the speech in a letter sent last week. He
> >> encouraged students to complete
> >>   suggested lessons that go along with the speech.
> >>
> >>       One lesson plan for students in kindergarten
> >> through sixth grade
> >>   suggests children write down what they would say
> >> to students if they were
> >>   president. Another asks students to discuss, "Is
> >> President Obama inspiring
> >>   you to do anything? Is he challenging you to do
> >> anything?"
> >>
> >>       McKinney ISD will make viewing the video
> >> optional. "It's a unique
> >>   opportunity," said Cunningham, the district
> >> spokesman.
> >>
> >>       Allen school administrators have encouraged
> >> teachers to show the video,
> >>   but officials spent some time Wednesday urging
> >> parents not to withhold their
> >>   children from school that day. Allen, McKinney
> >> and other districts say those
> >>   absences won't be excused.
> >>
> >>       Yet, parent Bill Hogsett said he figured
> >> half of the Frisco parents he
> >>   knew would keep their children home from school
> >> Tuesday.
> >>
> >>       "It doesn't matter if it's a Republican or
> >> Democrat. We have a problem
> >>   with the government intruding on our lives,"
> >> said Hogsett, who has a
> >>   5-year-old son in kindergarten.
> >>
> >>       Garyld Miles, a father of twin first-graders
> >> at Eddins Elementary School
> >>   in McKinney, shared similar concerns.
> >>
> >>       "It's dangerous grounds for a president to
> >> ask students to advocate his
> >>   policies for reform for education," he said.
> >> "That's exactly what he's
> >>   doing."
> >>
> >>       Duncan said the intent of the speech and the
> >> lesson plans has been
> >>   misunderstood. The president, he said, won't be
> >> lobbying for policy changes
> >>   but will be calling for a "shared
> >> responsibility" among students, parents
> >>   and educators "to ensure that every child in
> >> every school receives the best
> >>   education possible."
> >>
> >>       'Tool of indoctrination'
> >>       Obama's speech has ignited partisan passions
> >> among conservative groups,
> >>   which accused him of injecting politics in the
> >> classroom.
> >>
> >>       Neal McCluskey, associate director of the
> >> Center for Educational Freedom
> >>   at the conservative Cato Institute, said the
> >> lesson plans accompanying the
> >>   speech are "troubling."
> >>
> >>       "Reasonable people can disagree" about
> >> Obama's policies, he said. "But
> >>   they don't want their kids to be indoctrinated.
> >> This is potentially a tool
> >>   of indoctrination."
> >>
> >>       Fred Moses, chairman of the Collin County
> >> Republican Party, said he had
> >>   not heard anyone who was concerned about the
> >> speech.
> >>
> >>       "As long as the president is not talking
> >> about his agenda or policies,
> >>   we all need to encourage our kids to do better,"
> >> Moses said.
> >>
> >>       Barb Walters, president of the Texas
> >> Democratic Women of Collin County,
> >>   contended the outrage is mostly manufactured.
> >>
> >>       "Emotions are running so high in politics,"
> >> she said. "People are just
> >>   shoving signs and fists into people's faces
> >> these days. Whatever happened to
> >>   civil discourse?"
> >>
> >>       Larry J. Sabato, director of the Center for
> >> Politics at the University
> >>   of Virginia, said he doubted that Obama would
> >> risk criticism by giving a
> >>   political speech.
> >>
> >>       "If this is simply a pep talk by the
> >> president of the United States to
> >>   schoolkids," Sabato said, "to me that is in the
> >> category of mother and apple
> >>   pie and the flag."
> >>
> >>       Staff writers Todd J. Gillman, Sam Hodges,
> >> Jessica Meyers, Matt Peterson
> >>   and Valerie Wigglesworth contributed to this
> >> report.
> >>
> >>       Copyright (c) 2009, The Dallas Morning News.
> >> Distributed by
> >>   McClatchy-Tribune Information Services.
> >>
> >>       Vol. 29, Issue 03
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> >> -----
> >> ----
> >>
> >>
> >>   _______________________________________________
> >>   GroveNet mailing list
> >>   GroveNet at rdrop.com
> >>   http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> GroveNet mailing list
> >> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> >> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GroveNet mailing list
> > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> 
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> 

From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Fri Sep  4 12:49:46 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 12:49:46 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] nearest BesrBuy Store
Message-ID: <1426-4AA16F5A-4951@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>

will someone please tell me where the nearest BestBut Store is.  I need
a new Keyboard for my webtv system.
Sears does not handel webtv any longer which is where I got it when it
first came out in 1998.  


From rab at jurislex.com  Fri Sep  4 14:51:49 2009
From: rab at jurislex.com (Bob Browning)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 14:51:49 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Oregon suspends RB LeGarrette Blount for season -
 College Football - Rivals.com
Message-ID: <4AA18BF5.8010304@jurislex.com>

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From g-g-steele at comcast.net  Fri Sep  4 18:28:41 2009
From: g-g-steele at comcast.net (Geri)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 18:28:41 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] nearest BesrBuy Store
References: <1426-4AA16F5A-4951@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>
Message-ID: <06A7F0DFB99845F7A44D051EF92916A0@gerianehzkfhvy>

Allan, here is a list for you.
 Good luck getting what you need!
 
 Geri
     
     ------------------------------
      Tanasbourne OR (Store 1491)
      18075 Nw Evergreen Pkwy
      Hillsboro, OR 97006 
      Phone: 503-645-6061
     ------------------------------
      Beaverton OR (Store 451)
      3055 Sw Cedar Hills Blvd
      Beaverton, OR 97005 
      Phone:503-350-0559
     ------------------------------
      Washington Square OR (Store 1454)
      8905 Sw Cascade Ave
      Beaverton, OR 97008 
      Phone: 503-641-2816
     ------------------------------
      Tualatin OR (Store 1422)
      7041 Sw Nyberg St
      Tualatin, OR 97062 
      Phone:503-612-8397
     ------------------------------
     


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss" <OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net>
To: <GroveNet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 12:49 PM
Subject: [Grovenet] nearest BesrBuy Store


> will someone please tell me where the nearest BestBut Store is.  I need
> a new Keyboard for my webtv system.
> Sears does not handel webtv any longer which is where I got it when it
> first came out in 1998.  
> 
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>


From jim at benchmarkinspections.com  Fri Sep  4 18:53:05 2009
From: jim at benchmarkinspections.com (Jim Katen)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 18:53:05 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] nearest BesrBuy Store
In-Reply-To: <1426-4AA16F5A-4951@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>
References: <1426-4AA16F5A-4951@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>
Message-ID: <96AF1CDFDC3F4CBFA6A9792D799B87A3@JimDell>



-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 12:50 PM
To: GroveNet at rdrop.com
Subject: [Grovenet] nearest BesrBuy Store

will someone please tell me where the nearest BestBut Store is.  



A Best Butt store? I think you'd have to go to one of the rougher sections
of Portland for that. 

On the other hand, there are Best Buy stores at Tanasborne, Washington
Square, and Cedar Hills Blvd: 

Tanasbourne OR (Store 1491)
18075 NW Evergreen Pkwy
Hillsboro, OR  97006 
Phone: 503-645-6061

Washington Square OR (Store 1454)
8905 SW Cascade Ave
Beaverton, OR  97008 
Phone: 503-641-2816

Beaverton OR (Store 451)
3055 SW Cedar Hills Blvd
Beaverton, OR  97005 
Phone: 503-350-0559

- Jim Katen


From allnutt at verizon.net  Fri Sep  4 21:14:17 2009
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 21:14:17 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Forest Grove Chamber Friday Flash News Update 9/4/09
In-Reply-To: <4AA164DB.10300@jurislex.com>
References: <68F693D9887544509B4456ADF9332CA1@Teri>
	<4AA164DB.10300@jurislex.com>
Message-ID: <783A1ECA-CD69-4FA5-8C9B-4C5B7C08C105@verizon.net>

Kudos to you Bob.
Now if Obama could just grow a  spine half as strong we'd be in much  
better shape.


Katie

On Sep 4, 2009, at 12:04 PM, Bob Browning wrote:

> Hi, Teri. I am really sorry to see the Forest Grove Chamber of  
> Commerce involved in the referral petition on the recent tax  
> increases. And, I suspect, many for the residents of the Forest  
> Grove area with children in school will feel the same way.
>
> I realize that I am past due for last year's membership in the  
> Chamber. However, since the Forest Grove Chamber has apparently  
> taken on the same anti-society attitudes of the national Chamber, I  
> can no longer be a member. Therefore, please remove me from your  
> member listing and I will remove any indicia I may have showing  
> Chamber membership.
>
> Thank you.
>
> bob browning
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Chamber Director wrote:
>>
>> <mime-attachment.gif>CHAMBER FRIDAY FLASH ? SEPTEMBER 04, 2009
>> Forest Grove Chamber of Commerce
>> News & updates emailed or faxed each week
>>
>>
>> Phone:  503.357.3006      Fax:  503.357.2367                  
>> email: info at fgchamber.org     website: fgchamber.org
>>
>> The Chamber office will be closed on Monday, September 7th in  
>> observance of the Labor Day holiday.
>>
>>
>> Happy September to all ?Welcome to all of the new students,  
>> faculty and staff at Pacific University that will be calling  
>> Forest Grove ?home? this year.  Best wishes to all of the School  
>> District staff, faculty and students as they begin a new school  
>> year next week!  In addition to all of the academic activities  
>> gearing up, remember that both Pacific and Forest Grove School  
>> District has a full line up of fall sports activities beginning ?  
>> show your support of community sports ? attend a game!
>>
>> SEPTEMBER CHAMBER LUNCH ? MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 21
>> Noon at the City Auditorium (1915 Main Street)
>>  Guest Speaker ? Dr. Yvonne Curtis, Superintendent, Forest Grove  
>> School District
>>
>> RSVP  no later than Friday, September 18th ? 503.357.3006 or  
>> info at fgchamber.org
>> Last month we sold out!     RSVP early to reserve your seat!
>>
>> Many thanks to members who recently renewed their membership:   
>> Errands Today, Orion GPS, Forest Grove Ministerial Association,  
>> Blossoming Health Naturopathic Clinic, Maggie?s Buns, Joe Post/ 
>> Attorney at Law, Forest Grove Amory, Wells Fargo Bank, Stuntzer  
>> Engineering & Forestry, Geri Warmanen/Prudential NW Properties,  
>> The Grove Assisted Living, Godfather?s Pizza, Lieb Cold Storage,  
>> Mike Hundley Farmers Insurance, Frye?s Action Athletics, New  
>> Season Foods, Van Dyke Appliances, Ace Hardware, Q&D  
>> Manufacturing, Rotary Club of Forest Grove, Marquis ? Forest  
>> Grove, Forest Grove Rehabilitation and Care Center, Waste  
>> Management and NW Natural Gas.   We appreciate the continued  
>> support and participation of all of our members!
>>
>> ?        In our continuing effort to encourage ?support local,  
>> shop local? we want to share a program being done by one of our  
>> chamber partner?s parent company.  Scentsy, represented locally by  
>> Lori LaJeunesse is promoting a nationwide boost to local  
>> businesses in October.  They are encouraging everyone to pledge to  
>> spend $50 with local businesses on October 12th. There are no  
>> strings attached, no future solicitation, no follow up to confirm  
>> you kept your pledge, etc?just their way to help encourage local  
>> shopping.  For more details and/or to pledge your support, visit  
>> www.scentsy.com/lorilaj.
>>
>> ?        Volunteers needed to help at our annual Corn Roast event  
>> on Saturday, September 18th ?assist with activities, food service,  
>> ?flip burgers?, etc?.Shifts are only two hours ? give us a call or  
>> drop us an email (info at fgchamber.org) to sign up ? it is a fun  
>> afternoon ? come join us!
>>
>> ?        Have you done your part ?only three weeks left to help  
>> get the two tax increase measures on the ballot ?.Take a minute  
>> and file your E-Petition ??review the material and submit your  
>> signature at www.StopJobKillingTaxes.com.
>>
>> ?        The Chamber has a supply of the ?Welcome Pacific  
>> Students? window signs if you need one ? just give us a call!
>>
>>
>> Announcements, Events and Chamber Partner Notes
>>
>> Time to ?get in shape? or need assistance maintaining those  
>> workout habits you started this summer?  Two of our members are  
>> offering specials:
>> v      Curves of Forest Grove is offering a special discount to  
>> employees of businesses in Forest Grove for their new CurvesSmart  
>> program.  For more details, contact them at 503.359.5454.
>> v      Jazzercise is offering a 1 Day Sale on Monday, September  
>> 14th ? special pricing on this day only.  You can sign up at a  
>> class or via email or telephone.  For more details, contact Penny  
>> Costley, 503.429.0196 or pcostley at agalis.net
>>
>> Grendel?s goes wireless!  Grendel?s Restaurant & Bar in downtown  
>> Forest Grove (2004 Main Street) now offers wi-fi access for its  
>> customers.  Stop by for lunch, dinner or a snack and fire up your  
>> laptop at the same time!
>>
>> A reminder that Mike and Debbie?s Product (the supplier of our  
>> Corn Roast Corn) IS OPEN during the construction on the road that  
>> runs right in front of their produce stand.  It takes a little  
>> longer to get there, but you can still access the location by  
>> heading out via the first round a bout.  They have supported us  
>> and we know they can use everyone?s support through this  
>> construction access challenge.  Give Debbie a call at 503.359.4739  
>> if you have any questions and/or to place an advance order.
>>
>> Our newest chamber partner winery, Plum Hill Vineyards, invites  
>> you to join them for their Labor Day weekend Art, Wine and Music  
>> Celebration Saturday through Monday (September 5,6 & 7).  Tasting  
>> Room hours all three days are 11am ? 5pm.  There will be local  
>> art, jewelry, snacks, live music and, of course, great wine!  A  
>> very short drive from town, they are located at 6505 SW Old  
>> Highway 47.   For more details, contact them at 503.359.4706 or  
>> www.plumhillwine.com.
>>
>>
>>
>> SAVE THE DATE ?..?..CORN ROAST SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 19th --- 1-5pm,  
>> Pacific University Campus
>> (as well as 9th Annual 5K Run & Walk for Sight and Chalk Art  
>> Festival in Downtown Forest Grove)
>>
>>
>>
>> The Forest Grove Chamber of Commerce is an organization for  
>> business and professional people who work together to stimulate a  
>> prosperous business environment for a more vibrant community.
>>
>> IMPORTANT NOTICE: This message is intended only for the addresses  
>> and may contain confidential, privileged information.  If you are  
>> not the intended recipient, you may not use, copy or disclose any  
>> information contained in the message.  If you have received this  
>> message in error, please notify the sender by reply email and  
>> delete the message.
>>
>> Please conserve paper; print this e-mail only if necessary.
> ------------------------------------------------------
> <Std Email Signature RAB 3.JPG>
> <mime-attachment.gif><Std Email Signature RAB 3.JPG>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From jo.david at verizon.net  Sat Sep  5 00:47:12 2009
From: jo.david at verizon.net (David Morelli)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 00:47:12 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] nearest BesrBuy Store
In-Reply-To: <1426-4AA16F5A-4951@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>
References: <1426-4AA16F5A-4951@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>
Message-ID: <F0D48446-3781-4371-BBF8-A3DF785B9021@verizon.net>

Does it use a special type of plug?
Otherwise many of the keyboards at the Goodwill might fit?

David

On Sep 4, 2009, at 12:49 PM, Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss wrote:

> will someone please tell me where the nearest BestBut Store is.  I  
> need
> a new Keyboard for my webtv system.
> Sears does not handel webtv any longer which is where I got it when it
> first came out in 1998.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From jo.david at verizon.net  Sat Sep  5 01:01:49 2009
From: jo.david at verizon.net (David Morelli)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 01:01:49 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Forest Grove Chamber Friday Flash News Update 9/4/09
In-Reply-To: <783A1ECA-CD69-4FA5-8C9B-4C5B7C08C105@verizon.net>
References: <68F693D9887544509B4456ADF9332CA1@Teri>
	<4AA164DB.10300@jurislex.com>
	<783A1ECA-CD69-4FA5-8C9B-4C5B7C08C105@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <27D0FF01-4E58-43D2-B6B5-D7C21C34FA11@verizon.net>

I am curious what you want?

In the past we may have gotten used to "Imperial" Presidents who  
impose their will upon Congress and some expect that to continue.   
Instead, the current Administration seems content to follow the  
Constitution.

He is the nation's top elected official, Commander in Chief of the  
Armed Forces, and leader of the free world.  So far the President has  
been executing the laws of the country in a reasonable fashion.  He  
isn't the Prime Minister of Parliament, so he doesn't write the laws,  
instead he has left the creation of law to the Congress, which is  
their job.

David

On Sep 4, 2009, at 9:14 PM, Katie Allnutt wrote:

> Kudos to you Bob.
> Now if Obama could just grow a  spine half as strong we'd be in  
> much  better shape.
>
>
> Katie

From jo.david at verizon.net  Sat Sep  5 01:23:21 2009
From: jo.david at verizon.net (David Morelli)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 01:23:21 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Some people should just get a life , , ,
In-Reply-To: <FBEAKAJNIJPKEDCBPHFNMEALMBAA.NoSpam03@comcast.net>
References: <FBEAKAJNIJPKEDCBPHFNMEALMBAA.NoSpam03@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <9A958773-D5B4-4F6F-85E6-63FF0A4543CB@verizon.net>


On Sep 4, 2009, at 12:36 PM, Steven wrote:

>
> Have you heard about MSNBC's news story about the guy who took a  
> rifle to a Town Hall meeting in AZ? He was called a white racist.
> Problem is the guy is black. They edited the video to remove shots  
> of his head so you couldn't tell. Feeding the buffalo.

It appears that his name is Chris Broughton, and he is a member of  
Steven Anderson's congregation in Tempe.  For a photo

http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/gun-toting-arizona-protester- 
belongs

The story goes:
In an interview with ABC 15 outside the storefront Faithful Word  
Baptist Church in Tempe, Broughton said of Anderson's controversial  
August 16 "Why I Hate Barack Obama" sermon: "I concur, I think we'd  
be better off if God would send [Obama] where he's going now instead  
of later. [Obama] is destroying our country."

And when a reporter followed up with, "you're not advocating violence  
against the president?" Broughton, who has previously said his  
weapons are for defense, says "I'm not going to answer that question  
directly."

"I don't care how God does it, I'm not going into further detail than  
that," Broughton says. "It would be better now than later."
...
Roughly 24 hours after attending Anderson's anti-Obama sermon,  
Broughton made national headlines when he showed up heavily armed to  
an Obama event in Phoenix.

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/southeastvalley/tempe/story/Tempe- 
pastor-reiterates-wish-for-President-Obamas/MX2Vzd4unEi9n8PschT50w.cspx

It appears that Anderson doesn't believe that Obama follows the  
Constitution and the Bill of Rights.  I wonder how he felt about Bush?

David


From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Sat Sep  5 06:41:26 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 06:41:26 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] nearest BesrBuy Store
In-Reply-To: David Morelli <jo.david@verizon.net>'s message of Sat, 05 Sep
	2009 00:47:12 -0700
Message-ID: <1429-4AA26A86-3625@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>

David wrote ....Does it use a special type of plug? 
Otherwise many of the keyboards at the Goodwill might fit? 
David
 Thanks David.... I never thought of goodwill, but it is worth a shot.

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From waltw at teleport.com  Sat Sep  5 09:10:03 2009
From: waltw at teleport.com (Walt Wentz)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 09:10:03 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Some people should just get a life , , ,
In-Reply-To: <9A958773-D5B4-4F6F-85E6-63FF0A4543CB@verizon.net>
References: <FBEAKAJNIJPKEDCBPHFNMEALMBAA.NoSpam03@comcast.net>
	<9A958773-D5B4-4F6F-85E6-63FF0A4543CB@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <143BE890-ABE1-47FA-BD1C-792D29CCC289@teleport.com>

Did anyone say that raving fanatics-- or racists-- have to white?
 From the preacher praying for Gawd to smite Obama with cancer, to  
the parents threatening to keep their kids out of school rather than  
risk them hearing a speech by the President of the United States  
urging them to study hard and be responsible, to this Broughton  
character showing up at a presidential event bearing an AK-47 and a  
not-so-subtle threat about "watering the Tree of Liberty" (Google the  
famous quotation if you don't understand the meaning)-- truly this  
has been the "summer of the wingnut."
Face it, only as recently as just last year, if this clown had showed  
up within a mile of the then-President and done his little stunt, he  
would have ended up in the slammer before he could say "habeas  
corpus." And he might still be there, held incommunicado as a  
"terrorist suspect."
During the past eight years, us "Somefolks" were routinely accused of  
and ridiculed for "Bush-Bashing" whenever we spoke up about a  
fraudulent war, the packing of the courts, closed conferences with  
industry executives, endless "signing statements" to circumvent the  
rule of law, the subversion of the Constitution, the Bill of Rights  
and basic American ideals-- yet the degree of raw, poisonous hatred  
now being spewed against Obama is far more extreme, far more  
vitriolic, than any "Bush-bashing" I ever heard of. It is now  
approaching the totally irrational. There is something desperate and  
even hysterical about it.
What could be the underlying motivation for this degree of frothing  
rage, hmmmmm? Any guesses? Come on, folks, let's acknowledge the  
elephant in the room.
Walt Wentz

On Sep 5, 2009, at 1:23 AM, David Morelli wrote:

>
> On Sep 4, 2009, at 12:36 PM, Steven wrote:
>
>>
>> Have you heard about MSNBC's news story about the guy who took a
>> rifle to a Town Hall meeting in AZ? He was called a white racist.
>> Problem is the guy is black. They edited the video to remove shots
>> of his head so you couldn't tell. Feeding the buffalo.
>
> It appears that his name is Chris Broughton, and he is a member of
> Steven Anderson's congregation in Tempe.  For a photo
>
> http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/gun-toting-arizona-protester-
> belongs
>
> The story goes:
> In an interview with ABC 15 outside the storefront Faithful Word
> Baptist Church in Tempe, Broughton said of Anderson's controversial
> August 16 "Why I Hate Barack Obama" sermon: "I concur, I think we'd
> be better off if God would send [Obama] where he's going now instead
> of later. [Obama] is destroying our country."
>
> And when a reporter followed up with, "you're not advocating violence
> against the president?" Broughton, who has previously said his
> weapons are for defense, says "I'm not going to answer that question
> directly."
>
> "I don't care how God does it, I'm not going into further detail than
> that," Broughton says. "It would be better now than later."
> ...
> Roughly 24 hours after attending Anderson's anti-Obama sermon,
> Broughton made national headlines when he showed up heavily armed to
> an Obama event in Phoenix.
>
> http://www.abc15.com/content/news/southeastvalley/tempe/story/Tempe-
> pastor-reiterates-wish-for-President-Obamas/ 
> MX2Vzd4unEi9n8PschT50w.cspx
>
> It appears that Anderson doesn't believe that Obama follows the
> Constitution and the Bill of Rights.  I wonder how he felt about Bush?
>
> David
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From allnutt at verizon.net  Sat Sep  5 20:37:07 2009
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 20:37:07 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Forest Grove Chamber Friday Flash News Update 9/4/09
In-Reply-To: <27D0FF01-4E58-43D2-B6B5-D7C21C34FA11@verizon.net>
References: <68F693D9887544509B4456ADF9332CA1@Teri>
	<4AA164DB.10300@jurislex.com>
	<783A1ECA-CD69-4FA5-8C9B-4C5B7C08C105@verizon.net>
	<27D0FF01-4E58-43D2-B6B5-D7C21C34FA11@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <2A6A9D53-47B3-4847-AA0D-6FF8AFFCEE9C@verizon.net>

David,

   I do give Obama credit for attempting to let congress write the  
laws which they are supposed to do, in delightful contrast to Bush  
who told a willing Republican congress what to write. However, I  
think Obama did a disservice to the people by not taking a more  
proactive approach early on in the process. Because it appears to me  
that both under Bush and continuing today, the people who are  
actually writing the legislation is still the lobbyists. Perhaps a  
bit less so now, but not significantly less in my opinion.
   What congress needed to hear early on, and what Obama could have  
done was to put his organizing skills to use to have people contact  
their representatives before the lies and distortions came out.   
People could have told their reps that they didn't want to lose their  
Medicare (as opposed to screaming that they wanted the government to  
keep their hands off Medicare). They could have told congress that  
they want access to health care more than they want access to health  
insurance (if you didn't have to pay the CEO bonuses at every level  
to get access to health care through insurance then some of the more  
libertarian programs might have a chance to work).  Etc.
   And of course I am terribly disappointed that he invited Pharma in  
early and exchanged a drug discount over 10 years that only amounts  
to a 2% savings to get them to buy in to reform in the first place.  
We could have had a much better deal that a measly 2% if we had true  
negotiations for drug pricing.
    The data on single payer systems around the world are strong  
evidence that we can do way better than we do now. And the  
individuals that I know personally with dual citizenship have gone to  
the country of their 2nd citizenship for their children's health  
needs when they are major. They don't want to go broke getting lousy  
care and hassle here when it is so easy and effective to go elsewhere  
when it really counts.
    I think Obama is a competent in his official capacities but he  
has not been very leader like in his bully pulpit opportunities. He  
seems to be about 6 weeks behind the curve.  Perhaps I should cut him  
some slack given the cesspool full of troubles that he inherited from  
his predecessor but he is swimming with the big sharks now he needs  
to step up his  strategy.  There is such a thing as being too nice to  
the obstructionists, when time is as valuable commodity and we don't  
have time to waste playing games to see if the Republicans might like  
to go along for the  good of the country the seventh or eighth or  
twelfth time around.  They will not and he should recognize it by now.

IMHO
Katie
PS I gave the kudos to Bob for calling a spade a spade. Maybe that is  
a shorter way of saying what I think Obama should do.


On Sep 5, 2009, at 1:01 AM, David Morelli wrote:

> I am curious what you want?
>
> In the past we may have gotten used to "Imperial" Presidents who
> impose their will upon Congress and some expect that to continue.
> Instead, the current Administration seems content to follow the
> Constitution.
>
> He is the nation's top elected official, Commander in Chief of the
> Armed Forces, and leader of the free world.  So far the President has
> been executing the laws of the country in a reasonable fashion.  He
> isn't the Prime Minister of Parliament, so he doesn't write the laws,
> instead he has left the creation of law to the Congress, which is
> their job.
>
> David
>
> On Sep 4, 2009, at 9:14 PM, Katie Allnutt wrote:
>
>> Kudos to you Bob.
>> Now if Obama could just grow a  spine half as strong we'd be in
>> much  better shape.
>>
>>
>> Katie
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From jo.david at verizon.net  Sat Sep  5 22:01:43 2009
From: jo.david at verizon.net (David Morelli)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 22:01:43 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Forest Grove Chamber Friday Flash News Update 9/4/09
In-Reply-To: <2A6A9D53-47B3-4847-AA0D-6FF8AFFCEE9C@verizon.net>
References: <68F693D9887544509B4456ADF9332CA1@Teri>
	<4AA164DB.10300@jurislex.com>
	<783A1ECA-CD69-4FA5-8C9B-4C5B7C08C105@verizon.net>
	<27D0FF01-4E58-43D2-B6B5-D7C21C34FA11@verizon.net>
	<2A6A9D53-47B3-4847-AA0D-6FF8AFFCEE9C@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <3AF1A79A-6FE5-49EB-AB90-495AE63DCFB2@verizon.net>

Remember when someone was looking for "a great White Hope" to combat  
Obama, and they were painted as bigoted?

And you talk about calling a "spade" a "spade".

Don't let anyone accuse you of being a bigot.  <smile>

Sometimes, we allow our colloquial phrases to be taken out of  
context, and sometimes we are not aware of the original context of  
our phrases.

http://www.yaelf.com/aueFAQ/miftocllspdspd.shtml

David

On Sep 5, 2009, at 8:37 PM, Katie Allnutt wrote:

> David,
>
> ...  There is such a thing as being too nice to the  
> obstructionists, when time is as valuable commodity and we don't  
> have time to waste playing games to see if the Republicans might  
> like to go along for the  good of the country the seventh or eighth  
> or twelfth time around.  They will not and he should recognize it  
> by now.
>
> IMHO
> Katie
> PS I gave the kudos to Bob for calling a spade a spade. Maybe that  
> is a shorter way of saying what I think Obama should do.


From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Sun Sep  6 08:40:39 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 08:40:39 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] 2009/2010 Rain
Message-ID: <20222-4AA3D7F7-9910@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net>

I have ofisally started the rain season amounts as of 0700 this am.

0700, 9/06/09 .... .65

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From edavie at verizon.net  Sun Sep  6 09:10:32 2009
From: edavie at verizon.net (Ed Davie)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 09:10:32 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] 2009/2010 Rain
References: <20222-4AA3D7F7-9910@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net>
Message-ID: <57AB04F48F8D4571B8913B2AD45787A7@AUGUST05>

I have 0.74"
Ed
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss
  To: GroveNet at rdrop.com
  Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 8:40 AM
  Subject: [Grovenet] 2009/2010 Rain


  I have ofisally started the rain season amounts 
as of 0700 this am.

  0700, 9/06/09 .... .65




------------------------------------------------------------------------------



  Alan's Place


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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  GroveNet mailing list
  GroveNet at rdrop.com
  http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Sun Sep  6 09:16:29 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 09:16:29 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] 2009/2010 Rain
In-Reply-To: "Ed Davie" <edavie@verizon.net>'s message of Sun,
	06 Sep 2009 09:10:32 -0700
Message-ID: <20224-4AA3E05D-8163@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net>

Mr Ed.....
as of right now .. I have .75 just since 0700, I am sure glad you and I
have good drainage.


From allnutt at verizon.net  Sun Sep  6 11:10:38 2009
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 11:10:38 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Forest Grove Chamber Friday Flash News Update 9/4/09
In-Reply-To: <3AF1A79A-6FE5-49EB-AB90-495AE63DCFB2@verizon.net>
References: <68F693D9887544509B4456ADF9332CA1@Teri>
	<4AA164DB.10300@jurislex.com>
	<783A1ECA-CD69-4FA5-8C9B-4C5B7C08C105@verizon.net>
	<27D0FF01-4E58-43D2-B6B5-D7C21C34FA11@verizon.net>
	<2A6A9D53-47B3-4847-AA0D-6FF8AFFCEE9C@verizon.net>
	<3AF1A79A-6FE5-49EB-AB90-495AE63DCFB2@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <5094324D-C7D4-458A-A327-3C0030B79A21@verizon.net>



On Sep 5, 2009, at 10:01 PM, David Morelli wrote:

>
>
> Don't let anyone accuse you of being a bigot.  <smile>
>


One of the benefits of being a long time grovenut is that you develop  
a thick skin.
I'm sure that people have called me many things that I am not.

My grovenet survival rules include repeating to myself many common  
sense guidelines such as:
Unless a poster actually calls you something derogatory explicitly  
and mentions you exactly by name, then they are not talking about you  
personally.  Examples: "Some people blah blah blah"  The writer is  
not talking about me even if I fit the description perfectly.  
"Republicans think X" or "Democrats think Y"  Even if I am a  
republican that thinks "X" or a democrat that thinks "Y", they are  
still not necessarily talking about me or calling me an idiot. I know  
they may want to call me an idiot but they usually are not actually  
doing it.

It is just not wise to take general comments personally, because  
usually the writer meant it as an attempt at satire or other form of  
humor.
And if I do take some comment personally, then I try to use it as an  
opportunity for introspection to see if I am communicating what I  
really meant to say.  If not, then try to say it better next time.  
(We could all do a better job especially when we get riled up.)

If someone does not know the long history of the phrase calling a  
spade a shovel then they might mistakenly think I meant something  
other than it's true meaning.  It is not my problem if they are wrong  
is it? <wink>  But I thank you anyway for making it easy for people  
to know it has a long objective history.

Katie
PS To paraphrase an earlier post, perhaps if some one alleges that I  
am a bigot then I will know that they are an alligator...

From mbliss at agora.rdrop.com  Sun Sep  6 11:39:17 2009
From: mbliss at agora.rdrop.com (Meredith Bliss)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 11:39:17 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] [SPAM?]  Re:  Some people should just get a life , , ,
In-Reply-To: <143BE890-ABE1-47FA-BD1C-792D29CCC289@teleport.com>
References: <FBEAKAJNIJPKEDCBPHFNMEALMBAA.NoSpam03@comcast.net>
	<9A958773-D5B4-4F6F-85E6-63FF0A4543CB@verizon.net>
	<143BE890-ABE1-47FA-BD1C-792D29CCC289@teleport.com>
Message-ID: <200909061139.17980.mbliss@agora.rdrop.com>

Yes, there is an elephant in the room, and it has been noted:

www.splcenter.org/images/dynamic/main/The_Second_Wave.pdf

On Saturday 05 September 2009 09:10:03 am Walt Wentz wrote:

> What could be the underlying motivation for this degree of frothing
> rage, hmmmmm? Any guesses? Come on, folks, let's acknowledge the
> elephant in the room.
> Walt Wentz

----------------------------------------
Just happy to be here, but speaking 
only for myself!
Meredith Bliss --- www.rdrop.com/~mbliss
----------------------------------------

From feralcattamer at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  6 13:23:06 2009
From: feralcattamer at yahoo.com (Holly T.)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 13:23:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] Forest Grove Chamber Friday Flash News Update 9/4/09
In-Reply-To: <2A6A9D53-47B3-4847-AA0D-6FF8AFFCEE9C@verizon.net>
References: <68F693D9887544509B4456ADF9332CA1@Teri>
	<4AA164DB.10300@jurislex.com>
	<783A1ECA-CD69-4FA5-8C9B-4C5B7C08C105@verizon.net>
	<27D0FF01-4E58-43D2-B6B5-D7C21C34FA11@verizon.net>
	<2A6A9D53-47B3-4847-AA0D-6FF8AFFCEE9C@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <22270.81556.qm@web56106.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Beautifully stated, Katie!

I campaigned avidly for Obama and love the man dearly. We are so much better off than we were under Dubya, IMHO.

BUT, I have a few issues with Obama's priorities and with the sloth-like speed with which things are improving in our economy. For that reason, I have huge problems with all this emphasis on health care reform.

You see, though my past employer tripled their business in the midst of this Judas of an economy, they clearly have used the present economic downturn to clean house of their more highly paid employees so that they could replace them with new people who are willing to work "on the cheap". It's all about greed, the bottom line, and taking advantage of the situation. During the four years I worked for this company, mind you, I was given nothing but exemplary performance reviews. I was told in my exit interview that the decision to lay me off had nothing to do with my performance, but that it had everything to do with "changing business needs". This all happened when I was in the midst of moving my 82-year old mother into assisted living because she had been diagnosed with Altheimer's. When I was laid off, I was in the process of using up the three weeks of saved vacation time I had accumulated so that I could follow that up with a few, short weeks of
 family leave to get my mother's affairs in order (i.e., get her settled, restore her home for selling, take her to umpteen doctor appointments, etc.). I don't even know if my previous employer was within their legal rights to dismiss me under such circumstances because of family-leave laws. (Anyone know a good employment lawyer who can advise me about this??? Preferably free advice.) 

In the process of restoring my mom's home, getting it sold, helping her to get settled into her new assisted-living digs, taking over her financial affairs, and attending to her myriad health care issues,
I managed to send out over 100 resumes to companies all over the greater-Portland area. I've applied for jobs I'm qualified for, jobs I'm way over qualified for, jobs I'm not qualified for, and everything in between. I have networked extensively with those I know and don't know, and have taken on volunteer efforts for everything from the Forest Grove Community Gardens to the Institute for Culture and Ecology to the Forest Grove Historic Landmarks Board. In all the time I've been job hunting since being laid off last March, I've had three interviews. One job was "postponed" in the process due to budgetary reasons, and two were too far away to even consider commuting to (I have a house here in The Grove that won't sell for what it's really worth right now and relocating is out of the question for me.). Employers who have talked to me have told me that I have been in competition with "hundreds of applicants". Not "dozens" but "hundreds". I know how to land
 jobs very effectively. I possess over 30 years of excellent experience as a technical writer and instructional designer, and I worked for 20 years as a freelance contractor for companies like Intel, Microsoft, Mentor Graphics, etc. My resume is top notch. My interviewing skills are top notch. I have many, many professional contacts. In the past, I managed to land jobs during all recessions since I began working in 1972. Getting jobs was never a problem for me. Until now.

Those who aren't unemployed have no idea how rough things are right now. No idea whatsoever.

Recently, my 26-year old daughter, who has a Master's in Conflict Resolution and great work references, was laid off from her HR management job, also for "changing business needs". Because she is still paying student loans and has no savings, I have had to find ways to give her $1700 to help her make ends meet during the past couple of months while I'm not even bringing in enough to meet my own expenses. (Her dad, who is a software engineer, has been unemployed for over a year and a half, and can't help her financially. He is tapping into his IRAs to make ends meet now that his unemployment has run out.) If I didn't have savings (savings that took so long and so much effort to build up), I don't know what I'd do. I'd likely lose my house and all the equity I've built over the past 30 years. 

And, yet, I'm so much better off than so many others.

I guess my bottom line for telling you all my story is this:  Why place so much emphasis on health care reform when there are so many of us hurting because we're out of work right now? Doesn't it make so much more sense to focus on getting people back to work? Once people are back to work, then focus on health care reform. Wouldn't that make much more sense?

When I ask others these questions, they tell me, "Oh, but if we fix health care, it will create jobs." Maybe fixing health care will add more health care jobs. But, I don't see how it will create jobs in other business sectors. Seems like taking the cart before the horse to me.

Anyway, as much as I love the man, Obama gets about a C-minus from me right now. Why he isn't doing a far better job of creating more jobs when so many of us are hurting, I'll never understand.

Holly Tsur


________________________________
From: Katie Allnutt <allnutt at verizon.net>
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 5, 2009 8:37:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Forest Grove Chamber Friday Flash News Update 9/4/09

David,

   I do give Obama credit for attempting to let congress write the  
laws which they are supposed to do, in delightful contrast to Bush  
who told a willing Republican congress what to write. However, I  
think Obama did a disservice to the people by not taking a more  
proactive approach early on in the process. Because it appears to me  
that both under Bush and continuing today, the people who are  
actually writing the legislation is still the lobbyists. Perhaps a  
bit less so now, but not significantly less in my opinion.
   What congress needed to hear early on, and what Obama could have  
done was to put his organizing skills to use to have people contact  
their representatives before the lies and distortions came out.  
People could have told their reps that they didn't want to lose their  
Medicare (as opposed to screaming that they wanted the government to  
keep their hands off Medicare). They could have told congress that  
they want access to health care more than they want access to health  
insurance (if you didn't have to pay the CEO bonuses at every level  
to get access to health care through insurance then some of the more  
libertarian programs might have a chance to work).  Etc.
   And of course I am terribly disappointed that he invited Pharma in  
early and exchanged a drug discount over 10 years that only amounts  
to a 2% savings to get them to buy in to reform in the first place.  
We could have had a much better deal that a measly 2% if we had true  
negotiations for drug pricing.
    The data on single payer systems around the world are strong  
evidence that we can do way better than we do now. And the  
individuals that I know personally with dual citizenship have gone to  
the country of their 2nd citizenship for their children's health  
needs when they are major. They don't want to go broke getting lousy  
care and hassle here when it is so easy and effective to go elsewhere  
when it really counts.
    I think Obama is a competent in his official capacities but he  
has not been very leader like in his bully pulpit opportunities. He  
seems to be about 6 weeks behind the curve.  Perhaps I should cut him  
some slack given the cesspool full of troubles that he inherited from  
his predecessor but he is swimming with the big sharks now he needs  
to step up his  strategy.  There is such a thing as being too nice to  
the obstructionists, when time is as valuable commodity and we don't  
have time to waste playing games to see if the Republicans might like  
to go along for the  good of the country the seventh or eighth or  
twelfth time around.  They will not and he should recognize it by now.

IMHO
Katie
PS I gave the kudos to Bob for calling a spade a spade. Maybe that is  
a shorter way of saying what I think Obama should do.


On Sep 5, 2009, at 1:01 AM, David Morelli wrote:

> I am curious what you want?
>
> In the past we may have gotten used to "Imperial" Presidents who
> impose their will upon Congress and some expect that to continue.
> Instead, the current Administration seems content to follow the
> Constitution.
>
> He is the nation's top elected official, Commander in Chief of the
> Armed Forces, and leader of the free world.  So far the President has
> been executing the laws of the country in a reasonable fashion.  He
> isn't the Prime Minister of Parliament, so he doesn't write the laws,
> instead he has left the creation of law to the Congress, which is
> their job.
>
> David
>
> On Sep 4, 2009, at 9:14 PM, Katie Allnutt wrote:
>
>> Kudos to you Bob.
>> Now if Obama could just grow a  spine half as strong we'd be in
>> much  better shape.
>>
>>
>> Katie
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



      

From allnutt at verizon.net  Sun Sep  6 14:54:24 2009
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 14:54:24 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Was: Chamber news  now: emphasis on health care
In-Reply-To: <22270.81556.qm@web56106.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <68F693D9887544509B4456ADF9332CA1@Teri>
	<4AA164DB.10300@jurislex.com>
	<783A1ECA-CD69-4FA5-8C9B-4C5B7C08C105@verizon.net>
	<27D0FF01-4E58-43D2-B6B5-D7C21C34FA11@verizon.net>
	<2A6A9D53-47B3-4847-AA0D-6FF8AFFCEE9C@verizon.net>
	<22270.81556.qm@web56106.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7A31985B-0723-44E6-B392-A41C549C068D@verizon.net>

You remind me of someone else I know who has a full plate right now  
too. Actually a plate that is overflowing with difficulties and yet  
is managing to do make the best of it under the circumstances but the  
question is for how much longer. I can sense the love you have for  
your mother and the caring you have for your daughter and others who  
are struggling right now.
To be charitable toward Obama though I think he feels that health  
care reform is inextricably linked to economic reform and given the  
fact, which so far is not in much dispute, that health care is 16% of  
our economy and growing rapidly while other countries it is around  
half of that, I tend to agree.
I'm not particularly religious but the good karma out there is  
destined make good souls like yourself luckier in the long run even  
though the short run really stinks right now. If I hear of any  
openings for technical writers, instructional designers, or other  
freelance contracting I will let you know.

Katie

On Sep 6, 2009, at 1:23 PM, Holly T. wrote:

> Beautifully stated, Katie!
>
> I campaigned avidly for Obama and love the man dearly. We are so  
> much better off than we were under Dubya, IMHO.
>
> BUT, I have a few issues with Obama's priorities and with the sloth- 
> like speed with which things are improving in our economy. For that  
> reason, I have huge problems with all this emphasis on health care  
> reform.
>
> You see, though my past employer tripled their business in the  
> midst of this Judas of an economy, they clearly have used the  
> present economic downturn to clean house of their more highly paid  
> employees so that they could replace them with new people who are  
> willing to work "on the cheap". It's all about greed, the bottom  
> line, and taking advantage of the situation. During the four years  
> I worked for this company, mind you, I was given nothing but  
> exemplary performance reviews. I was told in my exit interview that  
> the decision to lay me off had nothing to do with my performance,  
> but that it had everything to do with "changing business needs".  
> This all happened when I was in the midst of moving my 82-year old  
> mother into assisted living because she had been diagnosed with  
> Altheimer's. When I was laid off, I was in the process of using up  
> the three weeks of saved vacation time I had accumulated so that I  
> could follow that up with a few, short weeks of
>  family leave to get my mother's affairs in order (i.e., get her  
> settled, restore her home for selling, take her to umpteen doctor  
> appointments, etc.). I don't even know if my previous employer was  
> within their legal rights to dismiss me under such circumstances  
> because of family-leave laws. (Anyone know a good employment lawyer  
> who can advise me about this??? Preferably free advice.)
>
> In the process of restoring my mom's home, getting it sold, helping  
> her to get settled into her new assisted-living digs, taking over  
> her financial affairs, and attending to her myriad health care issues,
> I managed to send out over 100 resumes to companies all over the  
> greater-Portland area. I've applied for jobs I'm qualified for,  
> jobs I'm way over qualified for, jobs I'm not qualified for, and  
> everything in between. I have networked extensively with those I  
> know and don't know, and have taken on volunteer efforts for  
> everything from the Forest Grove Community Gardens to the Institute  
> for Culture and Ecology to the Forest Grove Historic Landmarks  
> Board. In all the time I've been job hunting since being laid off  
> last March, I've had three interviews. One job was "postponed" in  
> the process due to budgetary reasons, and two were too far away to  
> even consider commuting to (I have a house here in The Grove that  
> won't sell for what it's really worth right now and relocating is  
> out of the question for me.). Employers who have talked to me have  
> told me that I have been in competition with "hundreds of  
> applicants". Not "dozens" but "hundreds". I know how to land
>  jobs very effectively. I possess over 30 years of excellent  
> experience as a technical writer and instructional designer, and I  
> worked for 20 years as a freelance contractor for companies like  
> Intel, Microsoft, Mentor Graphics, etc. My resume is top notch. My  
> interviewing skills are top notch. I have many, many professional  
> contacts. In the past, I managed to land jobs during all recessions  
> since I began working in 1972. Getting jobs was never a problem for  
> me. Until now.
>
> Those who aren't unemployed have no idea how rough things are right  
> now. No idea whatsoever.
>
> Recently, my 26-year old daughter, who has a Master's in Conflict  
> Resolution and great work references, was laid off from her HR  
> management job, also for "changing business needs". Because she is  
> still paying student loans and has no savings, I have had to find  
> ways to give her $1700 to help her make ends meet during the past  
> couple of months while I'm not even bringing in enough to meet my  
> own expenses. (Her dad, who is a software engineer, has been  
> unemployed for over a year and a half, and can't help her  
> financially. He is tapping into his IRAs to make ends meet now that  
> his unemployment has run out.) If I didn't have savings (savings  
> that took so long and so much effort to build up), I don't know  
> what I'd do. I'd likely lose my house and all the equity I've built  
> over the past 30 years.
>
> And, yet, I'm so much better off than so many others.
>
> I guess my bottom line for telling you all my story is this:  Why  
> place so much emphasis on health care reform when there are so many  
> of us hurting because we're out of work right now? Doesn't it make  
> so much more sense to focus on getting people back to work? Once  
> people are back to work, then focus on health care reform. Wouldn't  
> that make much more sense?
>
> When I ask others these questions, they tell me, "Oh, but if we fix  
> health care, it will create jobs." Maybe fixing health care will  
> add more health care jobs. But, I don't see how it will create jobs  
> in other business sectors. Seems like taking the cart before the  
> horse to me.
>
> Anyway, as much as I love the man, Obama gets about a C-minus from  
> me right now. Why he isn't doing a far better job of creating more  
> jobs when so many of us are hurting, I'll never understand.
>
> Holly Tsur
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Katie Allnutt <allnutt at verizon.net>
> To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> Sent: Saturday, September 5, 2009 8:37:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Forest Grove Chamber Friday Flash News  
> Update 9/4/09
>
> David,
>
>    I do give Obama credit for attempting to let congress write the
> laws which they are supposed to do, in delightful contrast to Bush
> who told a willing Republican congress what to write. However, I
> think Obama did a disservice to the people by not taking a more
> proactive approach early on in the process. Because it appears to me
> that both under Bush and continuing today, the people who are
> actually writing the legislation is still the lobbyists. Perhaps a
> bit less so now, but not significantly less in my opinion.
>    What congress needed to hear early on, and what Obama could have
> done was to put his organizing skills to use to have people contact
> their representatives before the lies and distortions came out.
> People could have told their reps that they didn't want to lose their
> Medicare (as opposed to screaming that they wanted the government to
> keep their hands off Medicare). They could have told congress that
> they want access to health care more than they want access to health
> insurance (if you didn't have to pay the CEO bonuses at every level
> to get access to health care through insurance then some of the more
> libertarian programs might have a chance to work).  Etc.
>    And of course I am terribly disappointed that he invited Pharma in
> early and exchanged a drug discount over 10 years that only amounts
> to a 2% savings to get them to buy in to reform in the first place.
> We could have had a much better deal that a measly 2% if we had true
> negotiations for drug pricing.
>     The data on single payer systems around the world are strong
> evidence that we can do way better than we do now. And the
> individuals that I know personally with dual citizenship have gone to
> the country of their 2nd citizenship for their children's health
> needs when they are major. They don't want to go broke getting lousy
> care and hassle here when it is so easy and effective to go elsewhere
> when it really counts.
>     I think Obama is a competent in his official capacities but he
> has not been very leader like in his bully pulpit opportunities. He
> seems to be about 6 weeks behind the curve.  Perhaps I should cut him
> some slack given the cesspool full of troubles that he inherited from
> his predecessor but he is swimming with the big sharks now he needs
> to step up his  strategy.  There is such a thing as being too nice to
> the obstructionists, when time is as valuable commodity and we don't
> have time to waste playing games to see if the Republicans might like
> to go along for the  good of the country the seventh or eighth or
> twelfth time around.  They will not and he should recognize it by now.
>
> IMHO
> Katie
> PS I gave the kudos to Bob for calling a spade a spade. Maybe that is
> a shorter way of saying what I think Obama should do.
>
>
> On Sep 5, 2009, at 1:01 AM, David Morelli wrote:
>
>> I am curious what you want?
>>
>> In the past we may have gotten used to "Imperial" Presidents who
>> impose their will upon Congress and some expect that to continue.
>> Instead, the current Administration seems content to follow the
>> Constitution.
>>
>> He is the nation's top elected official, Commander in Chief of the
>> Armed Forces, and leader of the free world.  So far the President has
>> been executing the laws of the country in a reasonable fashion.  He
>> isn't the Prime Minister of Parliament, so he doesn't write the laws,
>> instead he has left the creation of law to the Congress, which is
>> their job.
>>
>> David
>>
>> On Sep 4, 2009, at 9:14 PM, Katie Allnutt wrote:
>>
>>> Kudos to you Bob.
>>> Now if Obama could just grow a  spine half as strong we'd be in
>>> much  better shape.
>>>
>>>
>>> Katie
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From waltw at teleport.com  Sun Sep  6 22:10:10 2009
From: waltw at teleport.com (Walt Wentz)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 22:10:10 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] [SPAM?]  Re:  Some people should just get a life , , ,
In-Reply-To: <200909061139.17980.mbliss@agora.rdrop.com>
References: <FBEAKAJNIJPKEDCBPHFNMEALMBAA.NoSpam03@comcast.net>
	<9A958773-D5B4-4F6F-85E6-63FF0A4543CB@verizon.net>
	<143BE890-ABE1-47FA-BD1C-792D29CCC289@teleport.com>
	<200909061139.17980.mbliss@agora.rdrop.com>
Message-ID: <8C0CCCD6-84B0-4143-9797-1ED684A6DFA0@teleport.com>

Thanks, Meredith!
Anxiety and insecurity may be driving the new militias and also the  
solitary "preppers," but behind those emotions is plain old barnyard  
racism-- diligently manipulated by the likes of Limbaugh, Beck and  
their RNC handlers.
Hopefully more people will begin to point out the obvious.
Walt
On Sep 6, 2009, at 11:39 AM, Meredith Bliss wrote:

> Yes, there is an elephant in the room, and it has been noted:
>
> www.splcenter.org/images/dynamic/main/The_Second_Wave.pdf
>
> On Saturday 05 September 2009 09:10:03 am Walt Wentz wrote:
>
>> What could be the underlying motivation for this degree of frothing
>> rage, hmmmmm? Any guesses? Come on, folks, let's acknowledge the
>> elephant in the room.
>> Walt Wentz
>
> ----------------------------------------
> Just happy to be here, but speaking
> only for myself!
> Meredith Bliss --- www.rdrop.com/~mbliss
> ----------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From jo.david at verizon.net  Sun Sep  6 22:48:18 2009
From: jo.david at verizon.net (David Morelli)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 22:48:18 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] [SPAM?]  Re:  Some people should just get a life , , ,
In-Reply-To: <200909061139.17980.mbliss@agora.rdrop.com>
References: <FBEAKAJNIJPKEDCBPHFNMEALMBAA.NoSpam03@comcast.net>
	<9A958773-D5B4-4F6F-85E6-63FF0A4543CB@verizon.net>
	<143BE890-ABE1-47FA-BD1C-792D29CCC289@teleport.com>
	<200909061139.17980.mbliss@agora.rdrop.com>
Message-ID: <01CEF7A3-F5A1-4E2E-9E3F-1FE3E4EA5FEF@verizon.net>

It is a long read.  When reading the list of events at the end, I was  
impressed by the law enforcement agents killed or injured in those  
events.  Thank goodness for those who try to protect us from the nut  
cases of this world.  We recognize the sacrifices by our service  
personnel, and we enjoy security due to the efforts of our law  
enforcement people.

David

On Sep 6, 2009, at 11:39 AM, Meredith Bliss wrote:

> Yes, there is an elephant in the room, and it has been noted:
>
> www.splcenter.org/images/dynamic/main/The_Second_Wave.pdf
>
> On Saturday 05 September 2009 09:10:03 am Walt Wentz wrote:
>
>> What could be the underlying motivation for this degree of frothing
>> rage, hmmmmm? Any guesses? Come on, folks, let's acknowledge the
>> elephant in the room.
>> Walt Wentz
>
> ----------------------------------------
> Just happy to be here, but speaking
> only for myself!
> Meredith Bliss --- www.rdrop.com/~mbliss
> ----------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From jo.david at verizon.net  Sun Sep  6 23:49:41 2009
From: jo.david at verizon.net (David Morelli)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 23:49:41 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Forest Grove Chamber Friday Flash News Update 9/4/09
In-Reply-To: <22270.81556.qm@web56106.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <68F693D9887544509B4456ADF9332CA1@Teri>
	<4AA164DB.10300@jurislex.com>
	<783A1ECA-CD69-4FA5-8C9B-4C5B7C08C105@verizon.net>
	<27D0FF01-4E58-43D2-B6B5-D7C21C34FA11@verizon.net>
	<2A6A9D53-47B3-4847-AA0D-6FF8AFFCEE9C@verizon.net>
	<22270.81556.qm@web56106.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5D22FFAD-4CFF-4825-98D9-BAC604C7598D@verizon.net>

I cannot speak for the President, but I can offer my opinion.

The economic stimulus package was put into place at the first of the  
year.  Much of the money has been allocated or distributed already.   
Perhaps something more or something different is needed, I cannot  
say, but the process was started first before the health care  
question was addressed.

There is a large issue that overlaps both jobs and health care, i.e.  
"paying for health care".  For most of us, if we don't have a job, we  
cannot afford health care.  And if we do not receive appropriate  
primary care, some of us many lose our ability to work.

Not everyone needs or wants to work full time, but if they need  
employer funded health insurance they may need to work full time to  
qualify for it.  That can put them in competition for a full time  
position with someone who actually needs to work full time.

This may be the proper time to review our policy of expecting  
American employers to fund health care.  And it may be the proper  
time to examine the difference between health care and health  
insurance.  I know that the economy is bad.  However, back when the  
economy was good, and the deficit was expected to be reduced the  
whole discussion was torpedoed.

BTW, given your family's condition, I really do hope that you all  
remain in good health despite the stress of your situations.

In the arena of getting people back to work, I can see several  
options ( and others may be able to suggest others )

1.  Cut government regulations, red tape, and corporate taxes to  
stimulate the profit motive - generally done 2000-2008, and we have  
the results.
2.  Cut taxes and reduce tax rates on citizens - generally done  
2000-2008, and we have the results.
3.  Stimulate home buyers - I think that one was responsible for part  
of this problem.
4.  Issue cash to most citizens - done at least once already.
5.  Hire new government workers.  Bureaucrats, military positions,  
Homeland Security, Border Guards, etc.
6.  Purchase new things for federal government uses.  Roads, tanks,  
dams, ships, space station parts, prisons, airplanes, parks, fences,  
etc.
7.  Fund state and local projects.
8.  Grants and expanded loan programs for higher education - to take  
bodies out of the labor pool today while preparing them for the  
future needs
9.  Fund additional state and local government workers - teachers,  
police, librarians, etc.
10.  Fund expanded basic research
11.  Fund public/private energy production ventures - wind farms,  
biomass, nuclear plants, wave generation, low head hydro, solar,  
small scale energy networks, etc.
12.  Assume the payment of health coverage to reduce labor costs
13.  Adjust the monetary exchange rate to improve the dollar's  
competitive position in international trade - less jobs lost to  
imports, more jobs created for exports.
14.  Expand Unemployment benefits - the goods & services purchased  
will give someone, somewhere in the world a job.
15.  Expand Foreign Aid - the aid generally requires that the money  
be spent on American goods
16.  Do nothing and blame the unemployed for their problems - I have  
actually seen this proposed by some commentators.

David

On Sep 6, 2009, at 1:23 PM, Holly T. wrote:

> ...
> I guess my bottom line for telling you all my story is this:  Why  
> place so much emphasis on health care reform when there are so many  
> of us hurting because we're out of work right now? Doesn't it make  
> so much more sense to focus on getting people back to work? Once  
> people are back to work, then focus on health care reform. Wouldn't  
> that make much more sense?
> ...
> Anyway, as much as I love the man, Obama gets about a C-minus from  
> me right now. Why he isn't doing a far better job of creating more  
> jobs when so many of us are hurting, I'll never understand.
>
> Holly Tsur

From feralcattamer at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  7 01:46:36 2009
From: feralcattamer at yahoo.com (Holly T.)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 01:46:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] Forest Grove Chamber Friday Flash News Update 9/4/09
In-Reply-To: <5D22FFAD-4CFF-4825-98D9-BAC604C7598D@verizon.net>
References: <68F693D9887544509B4456ADF9332CA1@Teri>
	<4AA164DB.10300@jurislex.com>
	<783A1ECA-CD69-4FA5-8C9B-4C5B7C08C105@verizon.net>
	<27D0FF01-4E58-43D2-B6B5-D7C21C34FA11@verizon.net>
	<2A6A9D53-47B3-4847-AA0D-6FF8AFFCEE9C@verizon.net>
	<22270.81556.qm@web56106.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
	<5D22FFAD-4CFF-4825-98D9-BAC604C7598D@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <450059.39034.qm@web56104.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Well, I like 15 of your 16 options, David. That's for sure. 

Ya gotta wonder what FDR would've done about our record unemployment situation in Obama's place. Something tells me things wouldn't look so bleak under FDR's watch. What about more public works projects? I believe FDR was famous for them. Sounds good to me.

Thank you and Katie for your sweet concerns (I have already thanked her privately.) As far as health insurance goes, my daughter and I are both insured through COBRA benefits extended via our previous employers' health insurance plans. But, we each must pay for a portion of our premiums and I can assure you that it's not easy when money is already so tight. Fortunately, the Economic Stimulus Package now pays for two-thirds of our insurance premiums for the first nine months of unemployment. After that, however, it's all on our shoulders. I'm not looking forward to that eventuality should I remain unemployed by early December. My 82-year old mom is very well insured, thank goodness. Also thank goodness that my daughter and I are both healthy. My mom's another story. Rather like waiting for a time bomb to go off. I just hope that if something serious happens to her, it takes her quickly and painlessly.

Holly




________________________________
From: David Morelli <jo.david at verizon.net>
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2009 11:49:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Forest Grove Chamber Friday Flash News Update 9/4/09

I cannot speak for the President, but I can offer my opinion.

The economic stimulus package was put into place at the first of the  
year.  Much of the money has been allocated or distributed already.  
Perhaps something more or something different is needed, I cannot  
say, but the process was started first before the health care  
question was addressed.

There is a large issue that overlaps both jobs and health care, i.e.  
"paying for health care".  For most of us, if we don't have a job, we  
cannot afford health care.  And if we do not receive appropriate  
primary care, some of us many lose our ability to work.

Not everyone needs or wants to work full time, but if they need  
employer funded health insurance they may need to work full time to  
qualify for it.  That can put them in competition for a full time  
position with someone who actually needs to work full time.

This may be the proper time to review our policy of expecting  
American employers to fund health care.  And it may be the proper  
time to examine the difference between health care and health  
insurance.  I know that the economy is bad.  However, back when the  
economy was good, and the deficit was expected to be reduced the  
whole discussion was torpedoed.

BTW, given your family's condition, I really do hope that you all  
remain in good health despite the stress of your situations.

In the arena of getting people back to work, I can see several  
options ( and others may be able to suggest others )

1.  Cut government regulations, red tape, and corporate taxes to  
stimulate the profit motive - generally done 2000-2008, and we have  
the results.
2.  Cut taxes and reduce tax rates on citizens - generally done  
2000-2008, and we have the results.
3.  Stimulate home buyers - I think that one was responsible for part  
of this problem.
4.  Issue cash to most citizens - done at least once already.
5.  Hire new government workers.  Bureaucrats, military positions,  
Homeland Security, Border Guards, etc.
6.  Purchase new things for federal government uses.  Roads, tanks,  
dams, ships, space station parts, prisons, airplanes, parks, fences,  
etc.
7.  Fund state and local projects.
8.  Grants and expanded loan programs for higher education - to take  
bodies out of the labor pool today while preparing them for the  
future needs
9.  Fund additional state and local government workers - teachers,  
police, librarians, etc.
10.  Fund expanded basic research
11.  Fund public/private energy production ventures - wind farms,  
biomass, nuclear plants, wave generation, low head hydro, solar,  
small scale energy networks, etc.
12.  Assume the payment of health coverage to reduce labor costs
13.  Adjust the monetary exchange rate to improve the dollar's  
competitive position in international trade - less jobs lost to  
imports, more jobs created for exports.
14.  Expand Unemployment benefits - the goods & services purchased  
will give someone, somewhere in the world a job.
15.  Expand Foreign Aid - the aid generally requires that the money  
be spent on American goods
16.  Do nothing and blame the unemployed for their problems - I have  
actually seen this proposed by some commentators.

David

On Sep 6, 2009, at 1:23 PM, Holly T. wrote:

> ...
> I guess my bottom line for telling you all my story is this:  Why  
> place so much emphasis on health care reform when there are so many  
> of us hurting because we're out of work right now? Doesn't it make  
> so much more sense to focus on getting people back to work? Once  
> people are back to work, then focus on health care reform. Wouldn't  
> that make much more sense?
> ...
> Anyway, as much as I love the man, Obama gets about a C-minus from  
> me right now. Why he isn't doing a far better job of creating more  
> jobs when so many of us are hurting, I'll never understand.
>
> Holly Tsur
_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



      

From jo.david at verizon.net  Mon Sep  7 22:44:43 2009
From: jo.david at verizon.net (David Morelli)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 22:44:43 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Socialist President addresses school children
Message-ID: <C6D9FF84-74AD-4996-B3CD-8339E9080263@verizon.net>

I read the speech and found all of this Socialist talk.  See for  
yourself.
<quote>
You'll need the knowledge and problem-solving skills you learn in  
science and math to cure diseases like cancer and AIDS, and to  
develop new energy technologies and protect our environment. You'll  
need the insights and critical thinking skills you gain in history  
and social studies to fight poverty and homelessness, crime and  
discrimination, and make our nation more fair and more free. You'll  
need the creativity and ingenuity you develop in all your classes to  
build new companies that will create new jobs and boost our economy.

<unquote>



Could he be any more clear?



We need the Republicans to spread diseases, use old energy  
technologies, trash the environment, retain poverty, keep  
homelessness, increase crime, practice discrimination, and ensure  
that our country is less fair and less free.



We want the old companies to continue to reduce jobs and shrink the  
economy.



We certainly don't want our children to hear the alternatives.  What  
are the Republicans complaining about?



Oh boy.



David



From allnutt at verizon.net  Tue Sep  8 07:49:11 2009
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 07:49:11 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Socialist President addresses school children
In-Reply-To: <C6D9FF84-74AD-4996-B3CD-8339E9080263@verizon.net>
References: <C6D9FF84-74AD-4996-B3CD-8339E9080263@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <B9A7493E-E9B2-4E68-AE24-9FD7584CB4A1@verizon.net>

Knowledge and problem solving skills are scary things if they fall  
into the wrong hands aren't they?
Especially children's hands.

Katie

On Sep 7, 2009, at 10:44 PM, David Morelli wrote:

> I read the speech and found all of this Socialist talk.  See for
> yourself.
> <quote>
> You'll need the knowledge and problem-solving skills you learn in
> science and math to cure diseases like cancer and AIDS, and to
> develop new energy technologies and protect our environment. You'll
> need the insights and critical thinking skills you gain in history
> and social studies to fight poverty and homelessness, crime and
> discrimination, and make our nation more fair and more free. You'll
> need the creativity and ingenuity you develop in all your classes to
> build new companies that will create new jobs and boost our economy.
>
> <unquote>
>
>
>
> Could he be any more clear?
>
>
>
> We need the Republicans to spread diseases, use old energy
> technologies, trash the environment, retain poverty, keep
> homelessness, increase crime, practice discrimination, and ensure
> that our country is less fair and less free.
>
>
>
> We want the old companies to continue to reduce jobs and shrink the
> economy.
>
>
>
> We certainly don't want our children to hear the alternatives.  What
> are the Republicans complaining about?
>
>
>
> Oh boy.
>
>
>
> David
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From edavie at verizon.net  Tue Sep  8 10:39:58 2009
From: edavie at verizon.net (Ed Davie)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 10:39:58 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Windows XP
Message-ID: <D77FB056A7344294BF180D197AD4624C@AUGUST05>

Hi all,
I have an official copy of Windows XP that I am 
not going to use.
Anyone out there that could use it?
Make me an offer.
Ed 

From isis23ra at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  8 14:12:06 2009
From: isis23ra at yahoo.com (Alana Graham)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 14:12:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] MENSCH:  FESTIVAL OF MUSIC AND ART: 9/11-9/12
In-Reply-To: <B9A7493E-E9B2-4E68-AE24-9FD7584CB4A1@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <526315.85468.qm@web55605.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

PACIFIC UNIVERSITY?S SECOND ANNUAL
MENSCH:  FESTIVAL OF MUSIC AND ART
Sustaining a Planet

Fri. September 11 (6:30 to 10:00 pm)
Sat. September 12 (noon to 10:00 pm)
Pacific University
East Lawn

The MENSCH Festival of Music and Art is a two-day music and arts festival designed to promote civic awareness of various issues through music, art, displays, booths, installations, and demonstrations.  This year's focus for MENSCH is global and local sustainability.  Mensch is a German word for a fundamentally decent, upright, caring and globally aware human being, and these are the qualities the festival fosters.  It is a positive, artistic expression of personal and communal responsibility and commitment to the life of the planet.

MENSCH provides a variety of Pacific and community groups, clubs, and organizations a platform to express their commitment to sustainability and a space for staff, students and community members to gather, mingle, have a good time, and gain awareness of ecological issues while listening to great music.  Some of the groups performing are BLUE SCHOLARS, SNUBB FAM, THE CHENGS, and WILLIAM "LAMZ" HARRIS.  Open mic session, Saturday 1:00 - 3:00, and Slam Poetry, Saturday 5:00 - 7:00.

Any organization or group that wishes to participate will be provided an outdoor 10' by 10' square.  The square may be used for a variety of purposes.   A group can express itself artistically by installing, hanging, or performing art germane to the sustainability theme of the MENSCH Festival.  The square can also be used to provide an interactive social or learning experience.  For example, a group might wish to organize a hands-on short lesson on canning fruit or planting vegetables.  Local non-profit organizations that share the mission of CGE and the festival are encouraged to provide booths to distribute information and fund-raise if they wish.  Those who have a space must commit to staffing it the entire duration of the festival.  

Come, join us, have fun and be a MENSCH!  Don't miss BLUE SCHOLARS at 8:30 on Friday.

Sponsored by:

Center for Gender Equity (CGE)
ACE Board
Elise Elliott Fund


Participant Form

Name ____________________________________________________
E-mail ____________________________________________________
Organization _______________________________________________
Relation to University (if applicable):  Undergraduate Student ________
Graduate Student _______ Staff ______ Faculty_______  Alumni ______

Address _____________________________________________
Phone _______________________________________________


Proposed Participation:   Art Instillation __________  Musical Performance _________
                                        Theatrical Performance ____________   Sales Booth _________
                                         Informational Booth _________
Summary of Participation __________________________________________________
                                         __________________________________________________
                                         ___________________________________________________
                                         ___________________________________________________
                                         ___________________________________________________

Set up Times:  Friday, September 11:  4:00 to 6:00
                     Saturday, September 12:  10:00 to noon

There will be a "Best MENSCH" contest.  $100.00 prize for the "square" that best demonstrates the theme of the festival:  sustainability.  Contact celeste at pacificu.edu or ramptonm at pacificu.edu.



Dr. Martha Rampton
Professor of History
Director-Center for Gender Equity
Pacific University
2043 College Way
Forest Grove, Oregon  97116
Phone: 503 352 2772



      


From allnutt at verizon.net  Wed Sep  9 07:44:39 2009
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 07:44:39 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Pictionary partner
Message-ID: <E5EA93EF-D231-4965-AE1C-D809875888EC@verizon.net>

You may or may not like his politics but here is a guy who would be a  
great Pictionary partner.

http://tinyurl.com/luu7sj

Katie
I can get my partner to say Texas and Florida but Nebraska is really  
hard.


From obrzl at verizon.net  Wed Sep  9 11:10:39 2009
From: obrzl at verizon.net (mark oberzil)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 11:10:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] Yo-Ho-Ho, and a little red book?
Message-ID: <42017.11348.qm@web84203.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

It has been said man created God in his own image. and it has also been suggested that during times of militarism, cavemen were considered violent and warlike, whereas during detente, they were thought to have been peaceful hunter/gatherers developing trade.
?
Pirate societies have long been studied and differing conclusions have arisen; were they proto-Marxists or the ultimate free market, deregulated corporateers?
?
Here is a fascinating article on the history, society and politics of pirates.
?
http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/books/2009/09/07/090907crbo_books_crain
?
Arrrrr....
Mark

From edavie at verizon.net  Wed Sep  9 20:20:38 2009
From: edavie at verizon.net (Ed Davie)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 20:20:38 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] President's Health plan
Message-ID: <0466AC6D03E24583BF50731073CD7A38@AUGUST05>

The President's Plan for Health Reform


"It will provide more security and stability to 
those who have health insurance.
It will provide insurance to those who don't. And 
it will lower the cost of health care
for our families, our businesses, and our 
government."
- PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA



If You Have Health Insurance,
the President's Plan:

?        Ends discrimination against people with 
pre-existing conditions.

?        Limits premium discrimination based on 
gender and age.

?        Prevents insurance companies from 
dropping coverage when people are sick and need it 
most.

?        Caps out-of-pocket expenses so people don't 
go broke when they get sick.

?        Eliminates extra charges for preventive 
care like mammograms, flu shots and diabetes tests 
to improve health and save money.

?        Protects Medicare for seniors.

?        Eliminates the "donut-hole" gap in 
coverage for prescription drugs.

If You Don't Have Insurance,
the President's Plan:

?        Creates a new insurance marketplace - the 
Exchange - that allows people without insurance 
and small businesses to compare plans and buy 
insurance at competitive prices.

?        Provides new tax credits to help people 
buy insurance.

?        Provides small businesses tax credits and 
affordable options for covering employees.

?        Offers a public health insurance option 
to provide the uninsured and those who can't find 
affordable coverage with a real choice.

?        Immediately offers new, low-cost coverage 
through a national "high risk" pool to protect 
people with preexisting conditions from financial 
ruin until the new Exchange is created.

For All Americans,
the President's Plan:

?        Won't add a dime to the deficit and is 
paid for upfront.

?        Requires additional cuts if savings are 
not realized.

?        Implements a number of delivery system 
reforms that begin to rein in health care costs 
and align incentives for hospitals, physicians, 
and others to improve quality.

?        Creates an independent commission of 
doctors and medical experts to identify waste, 
fraud and abuse in the health care system.

?        Orders immediate medical malpractice 
reform projects that could help doctors focus on 
putting their patients first, not on practicing 
defensive medicine.

?        Requires large employers to cover their 
employees and individuals who can afford it to buy 
insurance so everyone shares in the responsibility 
of reform.

From allnutt at verizon.net  Wed Sep  9 20:35:28 2009
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 20:35:28 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] President's Health plan
In-Reply-To: <0466AC6D03E24583BF50731073CD7A38@AUGUST05>
References: <0466AC6D03E24583BF50731073CD7A38@AUGUST05>
Message-ID: <F6CD4A1E-888F-43D6-B00B-43A95A957363@verizon.net>

And on top of all that it reduces the large awards in medical  
malpractice cases.
Remember in tort cases where the doctor cuts off the wrong limb or  
leaves a sponge in the surgical site or orders the wrong dose of  
medicine, part of the monetary award (if you win your case) goes to  
cover your future health insurance costs.  With universal coverage,  
you will have health insurance in the future so the malpractice award  
will cut out the cost of future medical costs that they pay today.  
So, both republicans and democrats can be happy with the built in  
tort reform. Lower damage awards equals lower malpractice insurance  
costs*. It's a win win.

Katie
*In real life though in states where they have capped pain and  
suffering damage awards, the insurance costs to doctors did not  
always go down. In those states the profits of the insurance  
companies went up and the rates the insurance companies charged the  
doctors stayed the same. But in a sense, keeping the insurance  
charges the same is almost as good as a rate cut. It's just that some  
doctors thought that tort reform would lower their costs and not  
merely raise insurance profits.  But the legislators were bought by  
the insurance lobby. The doctors would have been smarter if they  
lobbied so that the  legislation forced the insurance companies to  
pass on the savings. Oops, need to keep your lobbyists on board when  
you go up against insurance companies.


On Sep 9, 2009, at 8:20 PM, Ed Davie wrote:

> The President's Plan for Health Reform
>
>
> "It will provide more security and stability to
> those who have health insurance.
> It will provide insurance to those who don't. And
> it will lower the cost of health care
> for our families, our businesses, and our
> government."
> - PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA
>
>
>
> If You Have Health Insurance,
> the President's Plan:
>
> ?        Ends discrimination against people with
> pre-existing conditions.
>
> ?        Limits premium discrimination based on
> gender and age.
>
> ?        Prevents insurance companies from
> dropping coverage when people are sick and need it
> most.
>
> ?        Caps out-of-pocket expenses so people don't
> go broke when they get sick.
>
> ?        Eliminates extra charges for preventive
> care like mammograms, flu shots and diabetes tests
> to improve health and save money.
>
> ?        Protects Medicare for seniors.
>
> ?        Eliminates the "donut-hole" gap in
> coverage for prescription drugs.
>
> If You Don't Have Insurance,
> the President's Plan:
>
> ?        Creates a new insurance marketplace - the
> Exchange - that allows people without insurance
> and small businesses to compare plans and buy
> insurance at competitive prices.
>
> ?        Provides new tax credits to help people
> buy insurance.
>
> ?        Provides small businesses tax credits and
> affordable options for covering employees.
>
> ?        Offers a public health insurance option
> to provide the uninsured and those who can't find
> affordable coverage with a real choice.
>
> ?        Immediately offers new, low-cost coverage
> through a national "high risk" pool to protect
> people with preexisting conditions from financial
> ruin until the new Exchange is created.
>
> For All Americans,
> the President's Plan:
>
> ?        Won't add a dime to the deficit and is
> paid for upfront.
>
> ?        Requires additional cuts if savings are
> not realized.
>
> ?        Implements a number of delivery system
> reforms that begin to rein in health care costs
> and align incentives for hospitals, physicians,
> and others to improve quality.
>
> ?        Creates an independent commission of
> doctors and medical experts to identify waste,
> fraud and abuse in the health care system.
>
> ?        Orders immediate medical malpractice
> reform projects that could help doctors focus on
> putting their patients first, not on practicing
> defensive medicine.
>
> ?        Requires large employers to cover their
> employees and individuals who can afford it to buy
> insurance so everyone shares in the responsibility
> of reform.
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Thu Sep 10 08:14:45 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 08:14:45 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Lawmakers blast 'You lie' outburst at Obama - MSNBC
	Articles
Message-ID: <17669-4AA917E5-549@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>

>From msnbc this morning.  
With all of this retoric, I wonder if they plan to still not give us the
cost of living raise that was reportidly taken away for the next two
years.
http://news.mobile.msn.com/en-us/articles.aspx?afid=1&aid=32767813

-------------- next part --------------
http://news.mobile.msn.com/en-us/articles.aspx?afid=1&aid=32767813

From edavie at verizon.net  Thu Sep 10 08:45:12 2009
From: edavie at verizon.net (Ed Davie)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 08:45:12 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Lawmakers blast 'You lie' outburst at Obama -
	MSNBC	Articles
References: <17669-4AA917E5-549@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>
Message-ID: <89E04DC8B15148D1BBB7BA55DAB0CF91@AUGUST05>

The problem is, they have nothing to base it on. 
The index they have been using for many years is 
incomplete and way behind reality! So, no 
inflation, no cost of living increase!
Ed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss
  To: GroveNet at rdrop.com
  Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 8:14 AM
  Subject: [Grovenet] Lawmakers blast 'You lie' 
outburst at Obama - MSNBC Articles


  >From msnbc this morning.
  With all of this retoric, I wonder if they plan 
to still not give us the
  cost of living raise that was reportidly taken 
away for the next two
  years.
  http://news.mobile.msn.com/en-us/articles.aspx?afid=1&aid=32767813




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  http://news.mobile.msn.com/en-us/articles.aspx?afid=1&aid=32767813



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  GroveNet mailing list
  GroveNet at rdrop.com
  http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

From rab at jurislex.com  Thu Sep 10 10:29:12 2009
From: rab at jurislex.com (Bob Browning)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 10:29:12 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Print Story: Girl in Iconic Vietnam War Photo Brings
 Message of Hope - Yahoo! News
Message-ID: <4AA93768.7000707@jurislex.com>

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From rab at jurislex.com  Fri Sep 11 10:37:01 2009
From: rab at jurislex.com (Bob Browning)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 10:37:01 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Resources for backyard poultry raisers
Message-ID: <4AAA8ABD.1030307@jurislex.com>

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From theresacus at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 12 08:51:27 2009
From: theresacus at yahoo.com (Theresa Carter)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 08:51:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] Music in the Park
In-Reply-To: <mailman.13.1250362807.90286.grovenet@rdrop.com>
Message-ID: <73493.71494.qm@web34506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>





The last "Music in the Park"? is this Sunday.? 
Roger's Park - Elm St Forest Grove.
?
12:30 - Open mic sign ups
1:00 - Open mic
2:00 - Tree Top Tribe? (Americana Blues/Jazz)? 
3:00 - Open jam session.? 
?
Concessions and beer gardens are available.? This is a family event.? 
Bring your blanket, chairs, musical instruments to participate or just enjoy the music.? Questions??? Call Theresa Carter or Keith Cantrell 503-577-3763


      

From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Sat Sep 12 13:14:59 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 13:14:59 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] cell phones
Message-ID: <7522-4AAC0143-2328@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net>

I know this has been around for awhile, however, it can't hurt to send
it again... 

FYI...???????????????????????????????????????????????????????
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????REMEMBER....
Cell Phone?Numbers Go Public next month.?????????
???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????REMINDER.... 
all cell phone?numbers are being released to?telemarketing companies
and you will start to receive?sales?calls.
???????????????????????????????????????????????????????
YOU WILL? BE CHARGED FOR 
THESE?CALLS.....?????????????????
??????????????? 
Even if the message is saved on your phone, you will?be? charged for
the minutes to listen
to?it.????????????????????? 
???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????To
prevent this, call the following? number from
your?cell?phone:?? 888-382-1222 
It is the National DO NOT CALL?list.
 It will only take?a??minute of your time. 
It blocks your number for five?(5)?years..?? You? must call
from the cell phone number you?want?to have blocked.?You cannot
call from a?different phone?number.
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????
HELP OTHERS BY? PASSING THIS ON TO ALL YOUR FRIENDS.. It takes?about
20? seconds.???

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From khourym at verizon.net  Sat Sep 12 13:23:03 2009
From: khourym at verizon.net (Martha Khoury)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 13:23:03 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] cell phones
In-Reply-To: <7522-4AAC0143-2328@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net>
References: <7522-4AAC0143-2328@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net>
Message-ID: <161F8DA3-AFCA-4451-B450-A82A5CDDE41F@verizon.net>

The Do Not Call Registry website says you can register cell phone  
numbers on it.
Also, apparently it no longer expires. Hope I got the right website  
and not a fake one.
--Martha


On Sep 12, 2009, at 1:14 PM, Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss wrote:

> I know this has been around for awhile, however, it can't hurt to send
> it again...
>
> FYI...
>                                                                
> REMEMBER....
> Cell Phone Numbers Go Public next month.
>                                                                 
> REMINDER....
> all cell phone numbers are being released to telemarketing companies
> and you will start to receive sales calls.
>
> YOU WILL  BE CHARGED FOR
> THESE CALLS.....
>
> Even if the message is saved on your phone, you will be  charged for
> the minutes to listen
> to it.
>                                                                To
> prevent this, call the following  number from
> your cell phone:   888-382-1222
> It is the National DO NOT CALL list.
> It will only take a  minute of your time.
> It blocks your number for five (5) years..   You  must call
> from the cell phone number you want to have blocked. You cannot
> call from a different phone number.
>
> HELP OTHERS BY  PASSING THIS ON TO ALL YOUR FRIENDS.. It takes about
> 20  seconds.
>
>
> Alan's Place _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From allnutt at verizon.net  Sat Sep 12 13:29:35 2009
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 13:29:35 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] cell phones
In-Reply-To: <7522-4AAC0143-2328@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net>
References: <7522-4AAC0143-2328@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net>
Message-ID: <F5AE1787-F067-4FA1-865D-2FE857E27D24@verizon.net>

Don't panic.  The telemarketers will not have unfettered access to  
cell phone numbers.
Snopes has a good explanation:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/cell411.asp

There will be a directory but the only numbers that will go into it  
are people who want to be in the directory.
Lots of people have no land line and for some of them they wanted to  
be in some directory some where so friends and relatives could find  
them.  It is not for telemarketers to make robo calls.
Of course if you have given your cell phone number to a telemarketer  
(do you fill out those forms to win a free weekend in Vegas at the  
mall?) then they can call you.

And it doesn't do any harm to sign up with the do not call registry,  
it's just that it won't do much good either beyond the protections  
you already have.

Katie
The folks who like unregulated free markets will disagree with me but  
I think it is just fine for the federal government to block some  
corporations free speech and make it harder for them to call me at  
dinner time. : )

On Sep 12, 2009, at 1:14 PM, Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss wrote:

> I know this has been around for awhile, however, it can't hurt to send
> it again...
>
> FYI...
>                                                                
> REMEMBER....
> Cell Phone Numbers Go Public next month.
>                                                                 
> REMINDER....
> all cell phone numbers are being released to telemarketing companies
> and you will start to receive sales calls.
>
> YOU WILL  BE CHARGED FOR
> THESE CALLS.....
>
> Even if the message is saved on your phone, you will be  charged for
> the minutes to listen
> to it.
>                                                                To
> prevent this, call the following  number from
> your cell phone:   888-382-1222
> It is the National DO NOT CALL list.
>  It will only take a  minute of your time.
> It blocks your number for five (5) years..   You  must call
> from the cell phone number you want to have blocked. You cannot
> call from a different phone number.
>
> HELP OTHERS BY  PASSING THIS ON TO ALL YOUR FRIENDS.. It takes about
> 20  seconds.
>
>
> Alan's Place
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Sat Sep 12 13:31:12 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 13:31:12 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] cell phones
In-Reply-To: Martha Khoury <khourym@verizon.net>'s message of Sat, 12 Sep
	2009 13:23:03 -0700
Message-ID: <7518-4AAC0510-5157@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net>

Martha...
you can always do what did, and call the nunber I listed

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From allnutt at verizon.net  Sat Sep 12 13:44:17 2009
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 13:44:17 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Why gays have been marrying all along
Message-ID: <CD8A6CAC-F91C-4782-BA41-D1BD6A59A922@verizon.net>

Interesting example in the news that shows how silly it is to worry  
about whether gays should be allowed to marry.
They have been doing it for eons...

This article is about the female track star Semenya.  She was born  
and the doctors declared she was a girl. And she was raised a girl.   
But her chromosomes say she is a boy (or might be a boy depending on  
how you define a boy.)

It has only been the advent of modern genetics and sophisticated  
imaging that allow folks like her to have all the details of her true  
genetics.  A hundred years ago she would have been raised a girl and  
gone off to marry a guy.  In all likelihood, unhappily, but it would  
have been hard for her to marry a girl when everybody thought she was  
a girl.

The world did not end when girls like her married guys and the   
church would have blessed such a marriage and the government would  
have recognized it as legitimate and it has been going on like this  
for thousands of years.  But now we know the 'she' is more likely to  
be a 'he'.

In some ways things were simpler when we didn't know all the stuff we  
know now.  And her life will be more complicated having to figure out  
who he/she is.

But my husband and I did not have to take a genetic test to see if he  
was the he or if I was the he in the marriage. And unless we are  
willing to force all couples to do that (and I doubt that even the  
most family values republican is willing to do that) then the folks  
who want to get married should decide who they want to marry.

Katie
Next time it might be a person who is born with only one X  
chromosome. Are they a girl with a missing second X or are they a boy  
with a missing Y?  Who do they get to marry? and more importantly who  
decides?

From allnutt at verizon.net  Sat Sep 12 13:46:45 2009
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 13:46:45 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Why gays have been marrying all along (with link)
Message-ID: <F938D61B-CDFE-4196-9394-527E9C28A5DD@verizon.net>

Oops forgot the link the first time I sent it.


Interesting example in the news that shows how silly it is to worry  
about whether gays should be allowed to marry.
They have been doing it for eons...

This article is about the female track star Semenya.  She was born  
and the doctors declared she was a girl. And she was raised a girl.   
But her chromosomes say she is a boy (or might be a boy depending on  
how you define a boy.)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_sci_gender_confusion

It has only been the advent of modern genetics and sophisticated  
imaging that allow folks like her to have all the details of her true  
genetics.  A hundred years ago she would have been raised a girl and  
gone off to marry a guy.  In all likelihood, unhappily, but it would  
have been hard for her to marry a girl when everybody thought she was  
a girl.

The world did not end when girls like her married guys and the   
church would have blessed such a marriage and the government would  
have recognized it as legitimate and it has been going on like this  
for thousands of years.  But now we know the 'she' is more likely to  
be a 'he'.

In some ways things were simpler when we didn't know all the stuff we  
know now.  And her life will be more complicated having to figure out  
who he/she is.

But my husband and I did not have to take a genetic test to see if he  
was the he or if I was the he in the marriage. And unless we are  
willing to force all couples to do that (and I doubt that even the  
most family values republican is willing to do that) then the folks  
who want to get married should decide who they want to marry.

Katie
Next time it might be a person who is born with only one X  
chromosome. Are they a girl with a missing second X or are they a boy  
with a missing Y?  Who do they get to marry? and more importantly who  
decides?

From feralcattamer at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 15 10:40:08 2009
From: feralcattamer at yahoo.com (Holly T.)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 10:40:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] Fw: A White House Farmers Market
Message-ID: <583556.50081.qm@web56108.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Hi Ali, Anna, Stephanie, Walt, and Grovenet members,

Pls see notice below from Care2. They're offering a $5000 prize to the farmer's market that receives the most votes. Weekly $250 prizes will also be doled out at random. So, we can't lose by trying in spite of the fact that we're competing against far bigger markets. Besides, maybe if each of you forward this email to 10 people you know, and they forward it to 10 people they know, and so on...maybe we could blast everyone out of the water.

It took me about 20 seconds to vote.

Pls spread the word to encourage votes for our wonderful Farmer's Market. I'd love to see us win this one!

Holly Tsur



----- Forwarded Message ----
From: "Rebecca Young, Care2 Action Alerts" <actionalerts at care2.com>
To: feralcattamer at yahoo.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 6:04:28 AM
Subject: A White House Farmers Market


Care2 subscriber since Mar 24, 2009  Unsubscribe |  Vote for Your Farmers Market  
 
 Hi Holly, 

Legendary Massachusetts politician Tip O'Neill famously said, "All politics is local." Perhaps the same can be said about fresh, healthy food. 

This  Thursday, a new farmers market will open near the White House -- a symbolic step capping a summer of grassroots support for local, organic food and a perfect way to celebrate the last day to vote in our "Love Your Farmers Market" contest!

There  are only days left to cast your vote and ask your friends to vote, too -- vote for your favorite farmers market today! 

Over 90,000 people have already cast their vote in support of local food and local farms. With your vote and your friends too, we can reach 100,000 voices for farmers markets! Vote today and then spread the word?


Even if your farmers market isn't in the running for the  grand prize, your vote  still helps. Every week, a randomly selected market  with at least 5 votes in the past week wins $250, so your vote can make your  market eligible for the final weekly prize!

Why vote? When you support your local farmers market, you are directly supporting small family farmers and your local economy. You are supporting fresh, organic, healthy and whole food. You are supporting family farming traditions that go back generations, and a philosophy of land stewardship that is fast disappearing with the expanding industrialization of our agriculture. 

And - voting is fun. You get to tell the world why your farmers market rocks. It's easy. Go for it! 

Vote for your favorite farmers market today!

 
Thank you!

Rebecca Young, 
Care2 and ThePetitionSite Team  



 
Connect with Care2!
   And follow us on twitter: http://twitter.com/actionalerts
http://twitter.com/care2causes   


________________________________
 To stop receiving this newsletter, visit: 
http://www.care2.com/newsletters/unsub/3/0/34781488/651971fa 

or send a blank email message to:
ng-u-3-34781488-8613239-13187224-ab22bca9 at australia.care2.com 

Care2.com, Inc.
275 Shoreline Drive, Suite 300
Redwood City, CA 94065
http://www.care2.com  


      

From chopwoodcarrywater at verizon.net  Tue Sep 15 11:59:13 2009
From: chopwoodcarrywater at verizon.net (Julie Larson)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 11:59:13 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Propane
Message-ID: <000b01ca3636$9e091650$da1b42f0$@net>

We are thinking about having propane piped into our kitchen for our stove
because natural gas will cost us a fortune. Does anyone have any suggestions
about which propane company is better than another or whether propane is
actually a viable option for us?

 

 


From edavie at verizon.net  Tue Sep 15 12:06:48 2009
From: edavie at verizon.net (Ed Davie)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 12:06:48 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Propane
References: <000b01ca3636$9e091650$da1b42f0$@net>
Message-ID: <BF79CABDC96F42A9B11B8C29E28635DF@EdsPortable>

I'd check carefully. Propane may be more expensive than natural gas. 
Especially since the  price of Natural gas is coming down!
Ed


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Julie Larson" <chopwoodcarrywater at verizon.net>
To: "'Forest Grove local interests list'" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:59 AM
Subject: [Grovenet] Propane


> We are thinking about having propane piped into our kitchen for our stove
> because natural gas will cost us a fortune. Does anyone have any 
> suggestions
> about which propane company is better than another or whether propane is
> actually a viable option for us?
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> 



From edavie at verizon.net  Tue Sep 15 12:09:54 2009
From: edavie at verizon.net (Ed Davie)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 12:09:54 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Propane
References: <000b01ca3636$9e091650$da1b42f0$@net>
	<BF79CABDC96F42A9B11B8C29E28635DF@EdsPortable>
Message-ID: <7B75750018694EC9AB764A9CFAF657F1@EdsPortable>

P:S: Also, some appliances are made for natural gas and won't work on 
propane, without a conversion kit.
Ed


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ed Davie" <edavie at verizon.net>
To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane


> I'd check carefully. Propane may be more expensive than natural gas.
> Especially since the  price of Natural gas is coming down!
> Ed
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Julie Larson" <chopwoodcarrywater at verizon.net>
> To: "'Forest Grove local interests list'" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:59 AM
> Subject: [Grovenet] Propane
>
>
>> We are thinking about having propane piped into our kitchen for our stove
>> because natural gas will cost us a fortune. Does anyone have any
>> suggestions
>> about which propane company is better than another or whether propane is
>> actually a viable option for us?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> 



From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Tue Sep 15 16:23:02 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 16:23:02 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Propane
In-Reply-To: "Julie Larson" <chopwoodcarrywater@verizon.net>'s message of Tue,
	15 Sep 2009 11:59:13 -0700
Message-ID: <17668-4AB021D6-11116@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>

Julie ....
If it were me, and living in town, I would use natural gas.  Because ...
if you use propane ... because water will accumulate from the
codensation , I know ...   before I went to straight wood heat along
with a small electric to use to take the chill off while starting the
wood stove  ... I found that with my 200 gallon tank I had to get the
condensation drawn out, or the tank changed.. 
By the bye ... if you chop wood why wood you need propane or natural
gas?


From feralcattamer at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 15 17:27:35 2009
From: feralcattamer at yahoo.com (Holly T.)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 17:27:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] Propane
In-Reply-To: <000b01ca3636$9e091650$da1b42f0$@net>
References: <000b01ca3636$9e091650$da1b42f0$@net>
Message-ID: <175155.39412.qm@web56105.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

I understand that propane can be very volatile. My brother once lived in a camper that blew up (fortunately, when he wasn't there) because of a propane leak. I'd talk with the fire department to see if they have any good advice about this before I piped propane into my kitchen.

Holly




________________________________
From: Julie Larson <chopwoodcarrywater at verizon.net>
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:59:13 AM
Subject: [Grovenet] Propane

We are thinking about having propane piped into our kitchen for our stove
because natural gas will cost us a fortune. Does anyone have any suggestions
about which propane company is better than another or whether propane is
actually a viable option for us?





_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



      

From NoSpam03 at comcast.net  Tue Sep 15 19:18:33 2009
From: NoSpam03 at comcast.net (Steven)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 19:18:33 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Propane
In-Reply-To: <000b01ca3636$9e091650$da1b42f0$@net>
Message-ID: <FBEAKAJNIJPKEDCBPHFNIEKGMIAA.NoSpam03@comcast.net>

If you're in the country, propane makes sense.
Just for cooking? Every appliance will have to have new feed jets to
accommodate the propane, Stove burners, water heater and so on.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com]On
> Behalf Of Julie Larson
> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:59 AM
> To: 'Forest Grove local interests list'
> Subject: [Grovenet] Propane
>
>
> We are thinking about having propane piped into our kitchen for our stove
> because natural gas will cost us a fortune. Does anyone have any
> suggestions
> about which propane company is better than another or whether propane is
> actually a viable option for us?
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>


From chopwoodcarrywater at verizon.net  Wed Sep 16 11:26:56 2009
From: chopwoodcarrywater at verizon.net (Julie Larson)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 11:26:56 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Propane
In-Reply-To: <17668-4AB021D6-11116@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>
References: "Julie Larson" <chopwoodcarrywater@verizon.net>'s message of Tue, 
	15 Sep 2009 11:59:13 -0700
	<17668-4AB021D6-11116@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>
Message-ID: <003801ca36fb$45f7cf40$d1e76dc0$@net>

Thanks for all the advice, everyone! We are thinking about propane because
it is so expensive to pipe gas into our house and I really want a gas stove.


Olehoss, I really think that these times call for looking to all sources for
energy. So yes, in addition to chopping wood, carrying water, I think I also
need to pipe propane.

Julie

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 4:23 PM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

Julie ....
If it were me, and living in town, I would use natural gas.  Because ...
if you use propane ... because water will accumulate from the
codensation , I know ...   before I went to straight wood heat along
with a small electric to use to take the chill off while starting the
wood stove  ... I found that with my 200 gallon tank I had to get the
condensation drawn out, or the tank changed.. 
By the bye ... if you chop wood why wood you need propane or natural
gas?

_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 16 11:30:32 2009
From: osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com (Allen Warren)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 11:30:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] Propane
In-Reply-To: <003801ca36fb$45f7cf40$d1e76dc0$@net>
References: "Julie Larson" <chopwoodcarrywater@verizon.net>'s message of Tue,
	15 Sep 2009 11:59:13 -0700
	<17668-4AB021D6-11116@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>
	<003801ca36fb$45f7cf40$d1e76dc0$@net>
Message-ID: <299633.21846.qm@web112108.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

I'm guessing the issue is you're only planning to use natural gas for a gas stove, yes?  If I remember correctly, Northwest Natural won't charge you the installation cost if you're planning to hook up to multiple appliances that use a good amount of natural gas: furnace, water heater, clothes dryer.  And if you're only wanting to hook up a gas stove, Northwest Natural wouldn't see that as a good enough ROI to offset their installation costs.  Sound about right?

 
Allen Warren

From: Julie Larson <chopwoodcarrywater at verizon.net>
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:26:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

Thanks for all the advice, everyone! We are thinking about propane because
it is so expensive to pipe gas into our house and I really want a gas stove.


Olehoss, I really think that these times call for looking to all sources for
energy. So yes, in addition to chopping wood, carrying water, I think I also
need to pipe propane.

Julie

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 4:23 PM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

Julie ....
If it were me, and living in town, I would use natural gas.  Because ...
if you use propane ... because water will accumulate from the
codensation , I know ...   before I went to straight wood heat along
with a small electric to use to take the chill off while starting the
wood stove  ... I found that with my 200 gallon tank I had to get the
condensation drawn out, or the tank changed.. 
By the bye ... if you chop wood why wood you need propane or natural
gas?

_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



      

From isis23ra at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 16 11:33:09 2009
From: isis23ra at yahoo.com (Alana Graham)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 11:33:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] Still time to "Race for the Cure": 9/20/09
In-Reply-To: <299633.21846.qm@web112108.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <121369.76456.qm@web55601.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

The Center for Gender Equity of Pacific University is participating in the Komen Portland Race for the Cure on September 20th, 2009 in the fight to save lives and end breast cancer forever. There is still time to register as an individual and race with the team.

Please join our team ?Gender Equity? in the 5K walk at 9:00 am.   You may register for the race as an individual and walk with the "Gender Equity" team by going to http://rfcp.convio.net/site/TR?fr_id=1110&pg=entry.  

(Or  Google: Komen Race for the Cure Portland) 

We will meet at the Orenco Station Max stop on Sunday morning, Sept. 20 at 7:00 and go to the race site together.  

When you join the team, please contact Erin Martin (emartin at pacficu.edu) and let her know so you can get information about our team's plans.   

If you can?t make the race, but would like to donate to this cause on behalf of our team you can do so online.  

To join or donate go to the following website: http://rfcp.convio.net/site/TR/Race/General/9978226?pg=team&fr_id=1110&team_id=49742

We look forward to seeing you at the race! Together we can save lives!

The Oregon and SW Washington Affiliate of Susan G. Komen for the Cure? has one clear goal - saving lives.  They are committed to serving all 36 counties in Oregon as well as the three counties in SW Washington: Clark, Skamania, and Cowlitz.  75% of their funds provide the following services for local women:
- Education about breast cancer and early detection
- Information and support to breast cancer survivors and their
  families
- Mammograms for the uninsured or underinsured
- Transportation and treatment support for survivors
In addition, 25% of their revenue is combined with Komen Affiliates nationwide, making Komen the largest private funder of breast cancer research in the world!
Susan G. Komen for the Cure? awarded over $100 million for breast cancer research grants in 2008, and Komen funding has touched every medical advancement related to breast cancer to date!

PS - Did you know that Susan G. Komen for the Cure provided more than 8,500 screening mammograms for uninsured women in Oregon and SW Washington in 2008?  You probably don?t know that an additional 37,000 local women ages 40-64 are uninsured or underinsured and go without life saving breast cancer screenings every year.  That is why fundraising is more important than ever.





      


From chopwoodcarrywater at verizon.net  Wed Sep 16 13:36:45 2009
From: chopwoodcarrywater at verizon.net (Julie Larson)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 13:36:45 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Propane
In-Reply-To: <299633.21846.qm@web112108.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: "Julie Larson" <chopwoodcarrywater@verizon.net>'s message of Tue, 
	15 Sep 2009 11:59:13
	-0700	<17668-4AB021D6-11116@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>
	<003801ca36fb$45f7cf40$d1e76dc0$@net>
	<299633.21846.qm@web112108.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <003f01ca370d$689d4400$39d7cc00$@net>

True. They want $2400 to install it. They would knock it down to $900 if we
hook up even a water heater, but we don't need a new water heater. I am
perfectly happy with electric everything except a stove. 

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Allen Warren
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:31 AM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

I'm guessing the issue is you're only planning to use natural gas for a gas
stove, yes?  If I remember correctly, Northwest Natural won't charge you the
installation cost if you're planning to hook up to multiple appliances that
use a good amount of natural gas: furnace, water heater, clothes dryer.  And
if you're only wanting to hook up a gas stove, Northwest Natural wouldn't
see that as a good enough ROI to offset their installation costs.  Sound
about right?

 
Allen Warren

From: Julie Larson <chopwoodcarrywater at verizon.net>
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:26:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

Thanks for all the advice, everyone! We are thinking about propane because
it is so expensive to pipe gas into our house and I really want a gas stove.


Olehoss, I really think that these times call for looking to all sources for
energy. So yes, in addition to chopping wood, carrying water, I think I also
need to pipe propane.

Julie

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 4:23 PM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

Julie ....
If it were me, and living in town, I would use natural gas.  Because ...
if you use propane ... because water will accumulate from the
codensation , I know ...   before I went to straight wood heat along
with a small electric to use to take the chill off while starting the
wood stove  ... I found that with my 200 gallon tank I had to get the
condensation drawn out, or the tank changed.. 
By the bye ... if you chop wood why wood you need propane or natural
gas?

_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



      
_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 16 13:40:04 2009
From: osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com (Allen Warren)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 13:40:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] Propane
In-Reply-To: <003f01ca370d$689d4400$39d7cc00$@net>
References: "Julie Larson" <chopwoodcarrywater@verizon.net>'s message of Tue,
	15 Sep 2009 11:59:13 -0700
	<17668-4AB021D6-11116@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>
	<003801ca36fb$45f7cf40$d1e76dc0$@net>
	<299633.21846.qm@web112108.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<003f01ca370d$689d4400$39d7cc00$@net>
Message-ID: <605714.73284.qm@web112116.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

and you can't fake out Northwest Natural, as in "yes, sure . . . we're going to hook up ALL those things!" because they'd know by your usage, or lack thereof, that you didn't install the extra natural gas guzzling items.

 
Allen Warren




________________________________
From: Julie Larson <chopwoodcarrywater at verizon.net>
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 1:36:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

True. They want $2400 to install it. They would knock it down to $900 if we
hook up even a water heater, but we don't need a new water heater. I am
perfectly happy with electric everything except a stove. 

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Allen Warren
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:31 AM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

I'm guessing the issue is you're only planning to use natural gas for a gas
stove, yes?  If I remember correctly, Northwest Natural won't charge you the
installation cost if you're planning to hook up to multiple appliances that
use a good amount of natural gas: furnace, water heater, clothes dryer.  And
if you're only wanting to hook up a gas stove, Northwest Natural wouldn't
see that as a good enough ROI to offset their installation costs.  Sound
about right?


Allen Warren

From: Julie Larson <chopwoodcarrywater at verizon.net>
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:26:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

Thanks for all the advice, everyone! We are thinking about propane because
it is so expensive to pipe gas into our house and I really want a gas stove.


Olehoss, I really think that these times call for looking to all sources for
energy. So yes, in addition to chopping wood, carrying water, I think I also
need to pipe propane.

Julie

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 4:23 PM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

Julie ....
If it were me, and living in town, I would use natural gas.  Because ...
if you use propane ... because water will accumulate from the
codensation , I know ...   before I went to straight wood heat along
with a small electric to use to take the chill off while starting the
wood stove  ... I found that with my 200 gallon tank I had to get the
condensation drawn out, or the tank changed.. 
By the bye ... if you chop wood why wood you need propane or natural
gas?

_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



      
_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



      

From jim at benchmarkinspections.com  Wed Sep 16 22:12:07 2009
From: jim at benchmarkinspections.com (Jim Katen)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 22:12:07 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Propane
In-Reply-To: <003f01ca370d$689d4400$39d7cc00$@net>
References: "Julie Larson" <chopwoodcarrywater@verizon.net>'s message of Tue, 
	15 Sep 2009
	11:59:13	-0700	<17668-4AB021D6-11116@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>
	<003801ca36fb$45f7cf40$d1e76dc0$@net>
	<299633.21846.qm@web112108.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<003f01ca370d$689d4400$39d7cc00$@net>
Message-ID: <C0FAD057A87C407E8EC8FBDF1A061E3A@JimDell>

Julie,

Call Willamette Gas. They're nice people, they have good prices, and they
are happy to help you with a system that meets your needs and your budget.
We've used propane for the past 19 years out here. We've dealt with several
suppliers and Willamette Gas has been my hands-down favorite. 

That said, if you're really on a budget, consider using a pair of 10-gallon
propane bottles with an automatic switchover valve. You connect both bottles
to the valve and plumb that to your cook stove. When the first bottle is
empty, the valve automatically switches to the second bottle and sends up a
red indicator. You then disconnect the empty bottle, have it filled,
reconnect it, and reset the valve. When the second bottle is empty, it
switches back to the first and sends up a red indicator . . . 

We used that system for a couple of years. Even with our large commercial
gas range, we'd go for month or two between trips to the filling station. It
did get old, though. You can get all the parts you need at any RV dealer. 

Of course, any cook stove that you use will have to be designed for (or
converted to) propane. And, while you're shopping for a stove, don't forget
to get a good range hood. As others have said, propane produces a lot of
water vapor when it burns. If you live in a large house, it's no big deal,
but if you live in a small house, the water vapor can really increase the
indoor humidity. 

- Jim Katen





-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Julie Larson
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 1:37 PM
To: 'Forest Grove local interests list'
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

True. They want $2400 to install it. They would knock it down to $900 if we
hook up even a water heater, but we don't need a new water heater. I am
perfectly happy with electric everything except a stove. 

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Allen Warren
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:31 AM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

I'm guessing the issue is you're only planning to use natural gas for a gas
stove, yes?  If I remember correctly, Northwest Natural won't charge you the
installation cost if you're planning to hook up to multiple appliances that
use a good amount of natural gas: furnace, water heater, clothes dryer.  And
if you're only wanting to hook up a gas stove, Northwest Natural wouldn't
see that as a good enough ROI to offset their installation costs.  Sound
about right?

 
Allen Warren

From: Julie Larson <chopwoodcarrywater at verizon.net>
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:26:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

Thanks for all the advice, everyone! We are thinking about propane because
it is so expensive to pipe gas into our house and I really want a gas stove.


Olehoss, I really think that these times call for looking to all sources for
energy. So yes, in addition to chopping wood, carrying water, I think I also
need to pipe propane.

Julie

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 4:23 PM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

Julie ....
If it were me, and living in town, I would use natural gas.  Because ...
if you use propane ... because water will accumulate from the
codensation , I know ...   before I went to straight wood heat along
with a small electric to use to take the chill off while starting the
wood stove  ... I found that with my 200 gallon tank I had to get the
condensation drawn out, or the tank changed.. 
By the bye ... if you chop wood why wood you need propane or natural
gas?

_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



      
_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From oldredwagon at verizon.net  Wed Sep 16 22:55:42 2009
From: oldredwagon at verizon.net (Marian Cakarnis)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 22:55:42 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Propane
In-Reply-To: <C0FAD057A87C407E8EC8FBDF1A061E3A@JimDell>
References: "Julie Larson" <chopwoodcarrywater@verizon.net>'s message of Tue, 
	15 Sep
	2009	11:59:13	-0700	<17668-4AB021D6-11116@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>
	<003801ca36fb$45f7cf40$d1e76dc0$@net>
	<299633.21846.qm@web112108.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<003f01ca370d$689d4400$39d7cc00$@net>
	<C0FAD057A87C407E8EC8FBDF1A061E3A@JimDell>
Message-ID: <86A60FD4BD5D4BCFA36B387F5907FC6B@DGZCL971>

When we re-did our kitchen last year, we debated about electric vs. gas vs.
propane.  We finally decided on an induction cooktop (electric).  We bought
a Sears Kenmore model, made by Electrolux.  It is much faster than gas, gets
incredibly hot (actually too hot) for stir-frying, is far more efficient and
is a joy to cook on.  

There are two drawbacks: 
1)  it is extremely frustrating to use anyone else's stove, because they
don't react quickly enough and are too slow!
2)  You must use pans that are magnetic - if a magnet sticks to the bottom,
it will work.  My old Farberware pans worked fine, but I did give up my
favorite stock pot (aluminum doesn't work).  Cast Iron works great - I love
my grill pan.

You might want to check it out.  If you are really interested, call me for
more information.

Marian Cakarnis
oldredwagon at verizon.net
503-516-4069

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Jim Katen
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10:12 PM
To: 'Forest Grove local interests list'
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

Julie,

Call Willamette Gas. They're nice people, they have good prices, and they
are happy to help you with a system that meets your needs and your budget.
We've used propane for the past 19 years out here. We've dealt with several
suppliers and Willamette Gas has been my hands-down favorite. 

That said, if you're really on a budget, consider using a pair of 10-gallon
propane bottles with an automatic switchover valve. You connect both bottles
to the valve and plumb that to your cook stove. When the first bottle is
empty, the valve automatically switches to the second bottle and sends up a
red indicator. You then disconnect the empty bottle, have it filled,
reconnect it, and reset the valve. When the second bottle is empty, it
switches back to the first and sends up a red indicator . . . 

We used that system for a couple of years. Even with our large commercial
gas range, we'd go for month or two between trips to the filling station. It
did get old, though. You can get all the parts you need at any RV dealer. 

Of course, any cook stove that you use will have to be designed for (or
converted to) propane. And, while you're shopping for a stove, don't forget
to get a good range hood. As others have said, propane produces a lot of
water vapor when it burns. If you live in a large house, it's no big deal,
but if you live in a small house, the water vapor can really increase the
indoor humidity. 

- Jim Katen





-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Julie Larson
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 1:37 PM
To: 'Forest Grove local interests list'
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

True. They want $2400 to install it. They would knock it down to $900 if we
hook up even a water heater, but we don't need a new water heater. I am
perfectly happy with electric everything except a stove. 

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Allen Warren
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:31 AM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

I'm guessing the issue is you're only planning to use natural gas for a gas
stove, yes?  If I remember correctly, Northwest Natural won't charge you the
installation cost if you're planning to hook up to multiple appliances that
use a good amount of natural gas: furnace, water heater, clothes dryer.  And
if you're only wanting to hook up a gas stove, Northwest Natural wouldn't
see that as a good enough ROI to offset their installation costs.  Sound
about right?

 
Allen Warren

From: Julie Larson <chopwoodcarrywater at verizon.net>
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:26:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

Thanks for all the advice, everyone! We are thinking about propane because
it is so expensive to pipe gas into our house and I really want a gas stove.


Olehoss, I really think that these times call for looking to all sources for
energy. So yes, in addition to chopping wood, carrying water, I think I also
need to pipe propane.

Julie

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 4:23 PM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

Julie ....
If it were me, and living in town, I would use natural gas.  Because ...
if you use propane ... because water will accumulate from the
codensation , I know ...   before I went to straight wood heat along
with a small electric to use to take the chill off while starting the
wood stove  ... I found that with my 200 gallon tank I had to get the
condensation drawn out, or the tank changed.. 
By the bye ... if you chop wood why wood you need propane or natural
gas?

_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



      
_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From chopwoodcarrywater at verizon.net  Thu Sep 17 09:52:34 2009
From: chopwoodcarrywater at verizon.net (Julie Larson)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 09:52:34 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Propane
In-Reply-To: <C0FAD057A87C407E8EC8FBDF1A061E3A@JimDell>
References: "Julie Larson" <chopwoodcarrywater@verizon.net>'s message of Tue, 
	15 Sep
	2009	11:59:13	-0700	<17668-4AB021D6-11116@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>
	<003801ca36fb$45f7cf40$d1e76dc0$@net>
	<299633.21846.qm@web112108.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<003f01ca370d$689d4400$39d7cc00$@net>
	<C0FAD057A87C407E8EC8FBDF1A061E3A@JimDell>
Message-ID: <008301ca37b7$41b60070$c5220150$@net>

We are absolutely planning on putting in a hood. Our kitchen is already
vented to the outside.

Thanks for the referral. I am going to call Wilamette Gas right now and set
up time for a bid.
Julie

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Jim Katen
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10:12 PM
To: 'Forest Grove local interests list'
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

Julie,

Call Willamette Gas. They're nice people, they have good prices, and they
are happy to help you with a system that meets your needs and your budget.
We've used propane for the past 19 years out here. We've dealt with several
suppliers and Willamette Gas has been my hands-down favorite. 

That said, if you're really on a budget, consider using a pair of 10-gallon
propane bottles with an automatic switchover valve. You connect both bottles
to the valve and plumb that to your cook stove. When the first bottle is
empty, the valve automatically switches to the second bottle and sends up a
red indicator. You then disconnect the empty bottle, have it filled,
reconnect it, and reset the valve. When the second bottle is empty, it
switches back to the first and sends up a red indicator . . . 

We used that system for a couple of years. Even with our large commercial
gas range, we'd go for month or two between trips to the filling station. It
did get old, though. You can get all the parts you need at any RV dealer. 

Of course, any cook stove that you use will have to be designed for (or
converted to) propane. And, while you're shopping for a stove, don't forget
to get a good range hood. As others have said, propane produces a lot of
water vapor when it burns. If you live in a large house, it's no big deal,
but if you live in a small house, the water vapor can really increase the
indoor humidity. 

- Jim Katen





-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Julie Larson
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 1:37 PM
To: 'Forest Grove local interests list'
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

True. They want $2400 to install it. They would knock it down to $900 if we
hook up even a water heater, but we don't need a new water heater. I am
perfectly happy with electric everything except a stove. 

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Allen Warren
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:31 AM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

I'm guessing the issue is you're only planning to use natural gas for a gas
stove, yes?  If I remember correctly, Northwest Natural won't charge you the
installation cost if you're planning to hook up to multiple appliances that
use a good amount of natural gas: furnace, water heater, clothes dryer.  And
if you're only wanting to hook up a gas stove, Northwest Natural wouldn't
see that as a good enough ROI to offset their installation costs.  Sound
about right?

 
Allen Warren

From: Julie Larson <chopwoodcarrywater at verizon.net>
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:26:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

Thanks for all the advice, everyone! We are thinking about propane because
it is so expensive to pipe gas into our house and I really want a gas stove.


Olehoss, I really think that these times call for looking to all sources for
energy. So yes, in addition to chopping wood, carrying water, I think I also
need to pipe propane.

Julie

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 4:23 PM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

Julie ....
If it were me, and living in town, I would use natural gas.  Because ...
if you use propane ... because water will accumulate from the
codensation , I know ...   before I went to straight wood heat along
with a small electric to use to take the chill off while starting the
wood stove  ... I found that with my 200 gallon tank I had to get the
condensation drawn out, or the tank changed.. 
By the bye ... if you chop wood why wood you need propane or natural
gas?

_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



      
_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From chopwoodcarrywater at verizon.net  Thu Sep 17 10:13:18 2009
From: chopwoodcarrywater at verizon.net (Julie Larson)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 10:13:18 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Propane
In-Reply-To: <86A60FD4BD5D4BCFA36B387F5907FC6B@DGZCL971>
References: "Julie Larson" <chopwoodcarrywater@verizon.net>'s message of Tue, 
	15
	Sep	2009	11:59:13	-0700	<17668-4AB021D6-11116@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>
	<003801ca36fb$45f7cf40$d1e76dc0$@net>
	<299633.21846.qm@web112108.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<003f01ca370d$689d4400$39d7cc00$@net>
	<C0FAD057A87C407E8EC8FBDF1A061E3A@JimDell>
	<86A60FD4BD5D4BCFA36B387F5907FC6B@DGZCL971>
Message-ID: <000001ca37ba$27047a10$750d6e30$@net>

Wow. I am a realtor and somebody mentioned induction cooking to me at an
open house a few years ago. I was selling the gas appliances and he told me
that people in Europe have been using induction stoves for years.

The big question I have concerns the stove burner's ability to handle heavy
weight. I do some canning and my husband makes beer. Old electric stoves
could hold up okay with big pots on their burners, but the elements on the
newer ones break down really quickly. What is your experience with heavy
pots?

Thanks for the advice.
Julie

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Marian Cakarnis
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10:56 PM
To: 'Forest Grove local interests list'
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

When we re-did our kitchen last year, we debated about electric vs. gas vs.
propane.  We finally decided on an induction cooktop (electric).  We bought
a Sears Kenmore model, made by Electrolux.  It is much faster than gas, gets
incredibly hot (actually too hot) for stir-frying, is far more efficient and
is a joy to cook on.  

There are two drawbacks: 
1)  it is extremely frustrating to use anyone else's stove, because they
don't react quickly enough and are too slow!
2)  You must use pans that are magnetic - if a magnet sticks to the bottom,
it will work.  My old Farberware pans worked fine, but I did give up my
favorite stock pot (aluminum doesn't work).  Cast Iron works great - I love
my grill pan.

You might want to check it out.  If you are really interested, call me for
more information.

Marian Cakarnis
oldredwagon at verizon.net
503-516-4069

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Jim Katen
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10:12 PM
To: 'Forest Grove local interests list'
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

Julie,

Call Willamette Gas. They're nice people, they have good prices, and they
are happy to help you with a system that meets your needs and your budget.
We've used propane for the past 19 years out here. We've dealt with several
suppliers and Willamette Gas has been my hands-down favorite. 

That said, if you're really on a budget, consider using a pair of 10-gallon
propane bottles with an automatic switchover valve. You connect both bottles
to the valve and plumb that to your cook stove. When the first bottle is
empty, the valve automatically switches to the second bottle and sends up a
red indicator. You then disconnect the empty bottle, have it filled,
reconnect it, and reset the valve. When the second bottle is empty, it
switches back to the first and sends up a red indicator . . . 

We used that system for a couple of years. Even with our large commercial
gas range, we'd go for month or two between trips to the filling station. It
did get old, though. You can get all the parts you need at any RV dealer. 

Of course, any cook stove that you use will have to be designed for (or
converted to) propane. And, while you're shopping for a stove, don't forget
to get a good range hood. As others have said, propane produces a lot of
water vapor when it burns. If you live in a large house, it's no big deal,
but if you live in a small house, the water vapor can really increase the
indoor humidity. 

- Jim Katen





-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Julie Larson
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 1:37 PM
To: 'Forest Grove local interests list'
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

True. They want $2400 to install it. They would knock it down to $900 if we
hook up even a water heater, but we don't need a new water heater. I am
perfectly happy with electric everything except a stove. 

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Allen Warren
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:31 AM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

I'm guessing the issue is you're only planning to use natural gas for a gas
stove, yes?  If I remember correctly, Northwest Natural won't charge you the
installation cost if you're planning to hook up to multiple appliances that
use a good amount of natural gas: furnace, water heater, clothes dryer.  And
if you're only wanting to hook up a gas stove, Northwest Natural wouldn't
see that as a good enough ROI to offset their installation costs.  Sound
about right?

 
Allen Warren

From: Julie Larson <chopwoodcarrywater at verizon.net>
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:26:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

Thanks for all the advice, everyone! We are thinking about propane because
it is so expensive to pipe gas into our house and I really want a gas stove.


Olehoss, I really think that these times call for looking to all sources for
energy. So yes, in addition to chopping wood, carrying water, I think I also
need to pipe propane.

Julie

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 4:23 PM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

Julie ....
If it were me, and living in town, I would use natural gas.  Because ...
if you use propane ... because water will accumulate from the
codensation , I know ...   before I went to straight wood heat along
with a small electric to use to take the chill off while starting the
wood stove  ... I found that with my 200 gallon tank I had to get the
condensation drawn out, or the tank changed.. 
By the bye ... if you chop wood why wood you need propane or natural
gas?

_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



      
_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From g-g-steele at comcast.net  Thu Sep 17 11:23:24 2009
From: g-g-steele at comcast.net (Geri)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 11:23:24 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Could be fun?
Message-ID: <259C0E095F2244419CB7EA3ED4E17AA0@gerianehzkfhvy>

Yo-ho-ho and a bottle o' rum!
http://www.portlandpiratefestival.com/ <see below>

;-)  Geri

"Be a part of Pirate History as we attempt to beat the Guinness World Record? for "The Most Pirates Gathered in one Place" sponsored by Dark Wing Productions.  On Sunday, Sept 20th starting at 2PM we need 1,500+ fully dressed pirates to pull it off so here are the official guidelines:

"Costumes must consist of the following:
  a.. Pirate style Hat or head scarf
  b.. An Eye Patch
  c.. Sword
  d.. Appropriate Trousers & Shirt/Waistcoat or Dress

"Participants must:
  a.. Be old enough to sign the official Log Book
  (Those who are age 13 and under need an adult guardian to sign a release)
  b.. Agree to be photographed/video taped
  c.. Be gathered for a full 15 minutes after count is finished
  (Expect to be there for an hour or more)"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From feralcattamer at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 17 14:59:26 2009
From: feralcattamer at yahoo.com (Holly T.)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 14:59:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] Could be fun?
In-Reply-To: <259C0E095F2244419CB7EA3ED4E17AA0@gerianehzkfhvy>
References: <259C0E095F2244419CB7EA3ED4E17AA0@gerianehzkfhvy>
Message-ID: <252125.44065.qm@web56101.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

As a pilgrim member of the House of Daos for the Society for Creative Anachronism, I have attended this Festivale de Pirates a couple of times. The tall ship they dock at the shore of Cathedral Park is perfectly amazing. The merchant's row is one of the best I've seen and chocked full of  enough garb to send you away decked out like a real pirate (or pirate's wench) if you aren't dressed that way when you arrive. The garb that people wear is simply gorgeous. The music is riotous--particularly that of Cap'n Boggs and Salty. And, the swashbuckling displays are beyond description. The only complaint I had was that of the long food lines. So, if you go, I suggest smuggling y'er own grub and grog under ye bonnie wench's corset, inside yer leather pouch, or inside yer AND yer wench's thigh-high leather boots. And, don't forget to dance enough jigs to wear off all that grog so that you can safely find your way home and not find yerself scallywagged.

Saavy?

Holly




________________________________
From: Geri <g-g-steele at comcast.net>
To: GroveNet <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 11:23:24 AM
Subject: [Grovenet] Could be fun?

Yo-ho-ho and a bottle o' rum!
http://www.portlandpiratefestival.com/ 

;-)  Geri

"Be a part of Pirate History as we attempt to beat the Guinness World Record? for "The Most Pirates Gathered in one Place" sponsored by Dark Wing Productions.  On Sunday, Sept 20th starting at 2PM we need 1,500+ fully dressed pirates to pull it off so here are the official guidelines:

"Costumes must consist of the following:
  a.. Pirate style Hat or head scarf
  b.. An Eye Patch
  c.. Sword
  d.. Appropriate Trousers & Shirt/Waistcoat or Dress

"Participants must:
  a.. Be old enough to sign the official Log Book
  (Those who are age 13 and under need an adult guardian to sign a release)
  b.. Agree to be photographed/video taped
  c.. Be gathered for a full 15 minutes after count is finished
  (Expect to be there for an hour or more)"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



      

From g-g-steele at comcast.net  Thu Sep 17 15:34:18 2009
From: g-g-steele at comcast.net (Geri)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 15:34:18 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Could be fun?
References: <259C0E095F2244419CB7EA3ED4E17AA0@gerianehzkfhvy>
	<252125.44065.qm@web56101.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <018C5D657CD2439992B13A15DD588F65@gerianehzkfhvy>

Aye, matey!


Geri

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Holly T." <feralcattamer at yahoo.com>
To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 2:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Could be fun?


> As a pilgrim member of the House of Daos for the Society for Creative Anachronism, I have attended this Festivale de Pirates a couple of times. The tall ship they dock at the shore of Cathedral Park is perfectly amazing. The merchant's row is one of the best I've seen and chocked full of  enough garb to send you away decked out like a real pirate (or pirate's wench) if you aren't dressed that way when you arrive. The garb that people wear is simply gorgeous. The music is riotous--particularly that of Cap'n Boggs and Salty. And, the swashbuckling displays are beyond description. The only complaint I had was that of the long food lines. So, if you go, I suggest smuggling y'er own grub and grog under ye bonnie wench's corset, inside yer leather pouch, or inside yer AND yer wench's thigh-high leather boots. And, don't forget to dance enough jigs to wear off all that grog so that you can safely find your way home and not find yerself scallywagged.
> 
> Saavy?
> 
> Holly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Geri <g-g-steele at comcast.net>
> To: GroveNet <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 11:23:24 AM
> Subject: [Grovenet] Could be fun?
> 
> Yo-ho-ho and a bottle o' rum!
> http://www.portlandpiratefestival.com/ 
> 
> ;-)  Geri
> 
> "Be a part of Pirate History as we attempt to beat the Guinness World Record? for "The Most Pirates Gathered in one Place" sponsored by Dark Wing Productions.  On Sunday, Sept 20th starting at 2PM we need 1,500+ fully dressed pirates to pull it off so here are the official guidelines:
> 
> "Costumes must consist of the following:
>  a.. Pirate style Hat or head scarf
>  b.. An Eye Patch
>  c.. Sword
>  d.. Appropriate Trousers & Shirt/Waistcoat or Dress
> 
> "Participants must:
>  a.. Be old enough to sign the official Log Book
>  (Those who are age 13 and under need an adult guardian to sign a release)
>  b.. Agree to be photographed/video taped
>  c.. Be gathered for a full 15 minutes after count is finished
>  (Expect to be there for an hour or more)"
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> 
> 
> 
>      
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>


From oldredwagon at verizon.net  Thu Sep 17 20:51:06 2009
From: oldredwagon at verizon.net (Marian Cakarnis)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 20:51:06 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Propane
In-Reply-To: <000001ca37ba$27047a10$750d6e30$@net>
References: "Julie Larson" <chopwoodcarrywater@verizon.net>'s message of Tue, 
	15	Sep	2009	11:59:13	-0700	<17668-4AB021D6-11116@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>
	<003801ca36fb$45f7cf40$d1e76dc0$@net>
	<299633.21846.qm@web112108.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<003f01ca370d$689d4400$39d7cc00$@net>
	<C0FAD057A87C407E8EC8FBDF1A061E3A@JimDell>
	<86A60FD4BD5D4BCFA36B387F5907FC6B@DGZCL971>
	<000001ca37ba$27047a10$750d6e30$@net>
Message-ID: <72236ADE3CE64CF5AEC1408A0256ACC8@DGZCL971>

Big heavy pots shouldn't make any difference because it is a smooth glass
top - there are no conventional burners.  I have a pretty heavy cast iron
dutch oven that I like to use for pot roasts, etc and it works great.

The biggest issue might be that most of the large canners seem to be made of
aluminum.  I was thinking of getting a large pressure canner for canning
tuna, but most of the pressure canners I looked at were made out of
aluminum.  I did find a really old pressure canner at Goodwill, but the
gauge was in such bad shape that I passed it up.  You can check your canner
by seeing if a refrigerator magnet will stick to the bottom.  If so, it
would work fine.  

Another plus that I really enjoyed this past summer is how much easier it
was to use the stove on those hot days.  We don't have air conditioning and
because the induction stove only heats the pan (no heat is generated from
the top itself), I actually used the stove top on some of those very warm
days.  

Another feature is how clean it stays.  Because the top doesn't get hot,
nothing ever burns on.  When things boil over, spills just slide around the
top and can be wiped up easily - nothing scorches to the top.  The first
weeks I had it, lots of stuff boiled over, because I wasn't used to how fast
things would start to boil.  I'm much better at paying attention now!

I've had this stove for over a year now and I couldn't be happier.  

Marian  

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Julie Larson
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:13 AM
To: 'Forest Grove local interests list'
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

Wow. I am a realtor and somebody mentioned induction cooking to me at an
open house a few years ago. I was selling the gas appliances and he told me
that people in Europe have been using induction stoves for years.

The big question I have concerns the stove burner's ability to handle heavy
weight. I do some canning and my husband makes beer. Old electric stoves
could hold up okay with big pots on their burners, but the elements on the
newer ones break down really quickly. What is your experience with heavy
pots?

Thanks for the advice.
Julie

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Marian Cakarnis
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10:56 PM
To: 'Forest Grove local interests list'
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

When we re-did our kitchen last year, we debated about electric vs. gas vs.
propane.  We finally decided on an induction cooktop (electric).  We bought
a Sears Kenmore model, made by Electrolux.  It is much faster than gas, gets
incredibly hot (actually too hot) for stir-frying, is far more efficient and
is a joy to cook on.  

There are two drawbacks: 
1)  it is extremely frustrating to use anyone else's stove, because they
don't react quickly enough and are too slow!
2)  You must use pans that are magnetic - if a magnet sticks to the bottom,
it will work.  My old Farberware pans worked fine, but I did give up my
favorite stock pot (aluminum doesn't work).  Cast Iron works great - I love
my grill pan.

You might want to check it out.  If you are really interested, call me for
more information.

Marian Cakarnis
oldredwagon at verizon.net
503-516-4069

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Jim Katen
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10:12 PM
To: 'Forest Grove local interests list'
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

Julie,

Call Willamette Gas. They're nice people, they have good prices, and they
are happy to help you with a system that meets your needs and your budget.
We've used propane for the past 19 years out here. We've dealt with several
suppliers and Willamette Gas has been my hands-down favorite. 

That said, if you're really on a budget, consider using a pair of 10-gallon
propane bottles with an automatic switchover valve. You connect both bottles
to the valve and plumb that to your cook stove. When the first bottle is
empty, the valve automatically switches to the second bottle and sends up a
red indicator. You then disconnect the empty bottle, have it filled,
reconnect it, and reset the valve. When the second bottle is empty, it
switches back to the first and sends up a red indicator . . . 

We used that system for a couple of years. Even with our large commercial
gas range, we'd go for month or two between trips to the filling station. It
did get old, though. You can get all the parts you need at any RV dealer. 

Of course, any cook stove that you use will have to be designed for (or
converted to) propane. And, while you're shopping for a stove, don't forget
to get a good range hood. As others have said, propane produces a lot of
water vapor when it burns. If you live in a large house, it's no big deal,
but if you live in a small house, the water vapor can really increase the
indoor humidity. 

- Jim Katen





-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Julie Larson
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 1:37 PM
To: 'Forest Grove local interests list'
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

True. They want $2400 to install it. They would knock it down to $900 if we
hook up even a water heater, but we don't need a new water heater. I am
perfectly happy with electric everything except a stove. 

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Allen Warren
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:31 AM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

I'm guessing the issue is you're only planning to use natural gas for a gas
stove, yes?  If I remember correctly, Northwest Natural won't charge you the
installation cost if you're planning to hook up to multiple appliances that
use a good amount of natural gas: furnace, water heater, clothes dryer.  And
if you're only wanting to hook up a gas stove, Northwest Natural wouldn't
see that as a good enough ROI to offset their installation costs.  Sound
about right?

 
Allen Warren

From: Julie Larson <chopwoodcarrywater at verizon.net>
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:26:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

Thanks for all the advice, everyone! We are thinking about propane because
it is so expensive to pipe gas into our house and I really want a gas stove.


Olehoss, I really think that these times call for looking to all sources for
energy. So yes, in addition to chopping wood, carrying water, I think I also
need to pipe propane.

Julie

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 4:23 PM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

Julie ....
If it were me, and living in town, I would use natural gas.  Because ...
if you use propane ... because water will accumulate from the
codensation , I know ...   before I went to straight wood heat along
with a small electric to use to take the chill off while starting the
wood stove  ... I found that with my 200 gallon tank I had to get the
condensation drawn out, or the tank changed.. 
By the bye ... if you chop wood why wood you need propane or natural
gas?

_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



      
_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

_______________________________________________
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From feralcattamer at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 18 10:38:52 2009
From: feralcattamer at yahoo.com (Holly Tsur)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 10:38:52 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Help pass Obama&#39;s clean energy jobs plan
Message-ID: <78.D3.23981.CA5C3BA4@web01.moveon.org>

An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Url: /pipermail/attachments/20090918/4be60ae5/attachment.ksh 

From chopwoodcarrywater at verizon.net  Fri Sep 18 12:40:42 2009
From: chopwoodcarrywater at verizon.net (Julie Larson)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 12:40:42 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Propane
In-Reply-To: <72236ADE3CE64CF5AEC1408A0256ACC8@DGZCL971>
References: "Julie Larson" <chopwoodcarrywater@verizon.net>'s message of Tue, 
	15	Sep	2009	11:59:13	-0700	<17668-4AB021D6-11116@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>
	<003801ca36fb$45f7cf40$d1e76dc0$@net>
	<299633.21846.qm@web112108.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<003f01ca370d$689d4400$39d7cc00$@net>
	<C0FAD057A87C407E8EC8FBDF1A061E3A@JimDell>
	<86A60FD4BD5D4BCFA36B387F5907FC6B@DGZCL971>
	<000001ca37ba$27047a10$750d6e30$@net>
	<72236ADE3CE64CF5AEC1408A0256ACC8@DGZCL971>
Message-ID: <006501ca3897$e8e6afd0$bab40f70$@net>

I talked with a sales person about the weight issue and she thought it might
be a problem. But not heating up your kitchen, whoa, that is a great thing
indeed. 
Thank you, Marian.
Julie

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Marian Cakarnis
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 8:51 PM
To: 'Forest Grove local interests list'
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

Big heavy pots shouldn't make any difference because it is a smooth glass
top - there are no conventional burners.  I have a pretty heavy cast iron
dutch oven that I like to use for pot roasts, etc and it works great.

The biggest issue might be that most of the large canners seem to be made of
aluminum.  I was thinking of getting a large pressure canner for canning
tuna, but most of the pressure canners I looked at were made out of
aluminum.  I did find a really old pressure canner at Goodwill, but the
gauge was in such bad shape that I passed it up.  You can check your canner
by seeing if a refrigerator magnet will stick to the bottom.  If so, it
would work fine.  

Another plus that I really enjoyed this past summer is how much easier it
was to use the stove on those hot days.  We don't have air conditioning and
because the induction stove only heats the pan (no heat is generated from
the top itself), I actually used the stove top on some of those very warm
days.  

Another feature is how clean it stays.  Because the top doesn't get hot,
nothing ever burns on.  When things boil over, spills just slide around the
top and can be wiped up easily - nothing scorches to the top.  The first
weeks I had it, lots of stuff boiled over, because I wasn't used to how fast
things would start to boil.  I'm much better at paying attention now!

I've had this stove for over a year now and I couldn't be happier.  

Marian  

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Julie Larson
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:13 AM
To: 'Forest Grove local interests list'
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

Wow. I am a realtor and somebody mentioned induction cooking to me at an
open house a few years ago. I was selling the gas appliances and he told me
that people in Europe have been using induction stoves for years.

The big question I have concerns the stove burner's ability to handle heavy
weight. I do some canning and my husband makes beer. Old electric stoves
could hold up okay with big pots on their burners, but the elements on the
newer ones break down really quickly. What is your experience with heavy
pots?

Thanks for the advice.
Julie

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Marian Cakarnis
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10:56 PM
To: 'Forest Grove local interests list'
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

When we re-did our kitchen last year, we debated about electric vs. gas vs.
propane.  We finally decided on an induction cooktop (electric).  We bought
a Sears Kenmore model, made by Electrolux.  It is much faster than gas, gets
incredibly hot (actually too hot) for stir-frying, is far more efficient and
is a joy to cook on.  

There are two drawbacks: 
1)  it is extremely frustrating to use anyone else's stove, because they
don't react quickly enough and are too slow!
2)  You must use pans that are magnetic - if a magnet sticks to the bottom,
it will work.  My old Farberware pans worked fine, but I did give up my
favorite stock pot (aluminum doesn't work).  Cast Iron works great - I love
my grill pan.

You might want to check it out.  If you are really interested, call me for
more information.

Marian Cakarnis
oldredwagon at verizon.net
503-516-4069

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Jim Katen
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10:12 PM
To: 'Forest Grove local interests list'
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

Julie,

Call Willamette Gas. They're nice people, they have good prices, and they
are happy to help you with a system that meets your needs and your budget.
We've used propane for the past 19 years out here. We've dealt with several
suppliers and Willamette Gas has been my hands-down favorite. 

That said, if you're really on a budget, consider using a pair of 10-gallon
propane bottles with an automatic switchover valve. You connect both bottles
to the valve and plumb that to your cook stove. When the first bottle is
empty, the valve automatically switches to the second bottle and sends up a
red indicator. You then disconnect the empty bottle, have it filled,
reconnect it, and reset the valve. When the second bottle is empty, it
switches back to the first and sends up a red indicator . . . 

We used that system for a couple of years. Even with our large commercial
gas range, we'd go for month or two between trips to the filling station. It
did get old, though. You can get all the parts you need at any RV dealer. 

Of course, any cook stove that you use will have to be designed for (or
converted to) propane. And, while you're shopping for a stove, don't forget
to get a good range hood. As others have said, propane produces a lot of
water vapor when it burns. If you live in a large house, it's no big deal,
but if you live in a small house, the water vapor can really increase the
indoor humidity. 

- Jim Katen





-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Julie Larson
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 1:37 PM
To: 'Forest Grove local interests list'
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

True. They want $2400 to install it. They would knock it down to $900 if we
hook up even a water heater, but we don't need a new water heater. I am
perfectly happy with electric everything except a stove. 

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Allen Warren
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:31 AM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

I'm guessing the issue is you're only planning to use natural gas for a gas
stove, yes?  If I remember correctly, Northwest Natural won't charge you the
installation cost if you're planning to hook up to multiple appliances that
use a good amount of natural gas: furnace, water heater, clothes dryer.  And
if you're only wanting to hook up a gas stove, Northwest Natural wouldn't
see that as a good enough ROI to offset their installation costs.  Sound
about right?

 
Allen Warren

From: Julie Larson <chopwoodcarrywater at verizon.net>
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:26:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

Thanks for all the advice, everyone! We are thinking about propane because
it is so expensive to pipe gas into our house and I really want a gas stove.


Olehoss, I really think that these times call for looking to all sources for
energy. So yes, in addition to chopping wood, carrying water, I think I also
need to pipe propane.

Julie

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 4:23 PM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

Julie ....
If it were me, and living in town, I would use natural gas.  Because ...
if you use propane ... because water will accumulate from the
codensation , I know ...   before I went to straight wood heat along
with a small electric to use to take the chill off while starting the
wood stove  ... I found that with my 200 gallon tank I had to get the
condensation drawn out, or the tank changed.. 
By the bye ... if you chop wood why wood you need propane or natural
gas?

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http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


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From oldredwagon at verizon.net  Fri Sep 18 20:12:28 2009
From: oldredwagon at verizon.net (Marian Cakarnis)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 20:12:28 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Propane
In-Reply-To: <006501ca3897$e8e6afd0$bab40f70$@net>
References: "Julie Larson" <chopwoodcarrywater@verizon.net>'s message of Tue, 
	15	Sep	2009	11:59:13	-0700	<17668-4AB021D6-11116@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>
	<003801ca36fb$45f7cf40$d1e76dc0$@net>
	<299633.21846.qm@web112108.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<003f01ca370d$689d4400$39d7cc00$@net>
	<C0FAD057A87C407E8EC8FBDF1A061E3A@JimDell>
	<86A60FD4BD5D4BCFA36B387F5907FC6B@DGZCL971>
	<000001ca37ba$27047a10$750d6e30$@net>
	<72236ADE3CE64CF5AEC1408A0256ACC8@DGZCL971>
	<006501ca3897$e8e6afd0$bab40f70$@net>
Message-ID: <286B6C82F1214E91904C691778E71992@DGZCL971>

When we were trying to obtain information about the induction cooktops, the
sales people didn't have a clue.  Obviously, none of the ones we talked to
had ever used one or had even gone to the trouble to understand how it
compared to gas or electric.  So it doesn't surprise me that a sales person
would say the weight could be an issue.  I spend a lot of time on the
Internet researching it and it still felt like a leap of faith because I
didn't personally know anyone who had one or had used one.  Since then I've
found induction hotplates available for less than $120. If I would have
known, I might have bought one to try it out.  It would have felt a lot
safer than shelling out the $1500 that we did and gambling on how well it
would work out.  It worked out great, but it would have been nice to be more
confident when we made our decision.  Our other options were propane and a
traditional electric (yuck!)

I dug out my manual and went thru it to see if there were any warranty
disclaimers about the weight - there weren't any.  The cooktop has a solid
piece of thick glass and I can't imagine any pot which would cause the glass
to flex.  They do caution against sliding cookware around on the stovetop,
because the glass could get scratched.  For reliable information, I would
contact Electrolux to see what they say.

If you are still interested and would like more info, call me and you can
come over and check mine out.  You are welcome to bring a pan or two if you
would like to see how it would work....

Marian





-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Julie Larson
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 12:41 PM
To: 'Forest Grove local interests list'
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

I talked with a sales person about the weight issue and she thought it might
be a problem. But not heating up your kitchen, whoa, that is a great thing
indeed. 
Thank you, Marian.
Julie

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Marian Cakarnis
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 8:51 PM
To: 'Forest Grove local interests list'
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

Big heavy pots shouldn't make any difference because it is a smooth glass
top - there are no conventional burners.  I have a pretty heavy cast iron
dutch oven that I like to use for pot roasts, etc and it works great.

The biggest issue might be that most of the large canners seem to be made of
aluminum.  I was thinking of getting a large pressure canner for canning
tuna, but most of the pressure canners I looked at were made out of
aluminum.  I did find a really old pressure canner at Goodwill, but the
gauge was in such bad shape that I passed it up.  You can check your canner
by seeing if a refrigerator magnet will stick to the bottom.  If so, it
would work fine.  

Another plus that I really enjoyed this past summer is how much easier it
was to use the stove on those hot days.  We don't have air conditioning and
because the induction stove only heats the pan (no heat is generated from
the top itself), I actually used the stove top on some of those very warm
days.  

Another feature is how clean it stays.  Because the top doesn't get hot,
nothing ever burns on.  When things boil over, spills just slide around the
top and can be wiped up easily - nothing scorches to the top.  The first
weeks I had it, lots of stuff boiled over, because I wasn't used to how fast
things would start to boil.  I'm much better at paying attention now!

I've had this stove for over a year now and I couldn't be happier.  

Marian  

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Julie Larson
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:13 AM
To: 'Forest Grove local interests list'
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

Wow. I am a realtor and somebody mentioned induction cooking to me at an
open house a few years ago. I was selling the gas appliances and he told me
that people in Europe have been using induction stoves for years.

The big question I have concerns the stove burner's ability to handle heavy
weight. I do some canning and my husband makes beer. Old electric stoves
could hold up okay with big pots on their burners, but the elements on the
newer ones break down really quickly. What is your experience with heavy
pots?

Thanks for the advice.
Julie

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Marian Cakarnis
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10:56 PM
To: 'Forest Grove local interests list'
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

When we re-did our kitchen last year, we debated about electric vs. gas vs.
propane.  We finally decided on an induction cooktop (electric).  We bought
a Sears Kenmore model, made by Electrolux.  It is much faster than gas, gets
incredibly hot (actually too hot) for stir-frying, is far more efficient and
is a joy to cook on.  

There are two drawbacks: 
1)  it is extremely frustrating to use anyone else's stove, because they
don't react quickly enough and are too slow!
2)  You must use pans that are magnetic - if a magnet sticks to the bottom,
it will work.  My old Farberware pans worked fine, but I did give up my
favorite stock pot (aluminum doesn't work).  Cast Iron works great - I love
my grill pan.

You might want to check it out.  If you are really interested, call me for
more information.

Marian Cakarnis
oldredwagon at verizon.net
503-516-4069

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Jim Katen
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10:12 PM
To: 'Forest Grove local interests list'
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

Julie,

Call Willamette Gas. They're nice people, they have good prices, and they
are happy to help you with a system that meets your needs and your budget.
We've used propane for the past 19 years out here. We've dealt with several
suppliers and Willamette Gas has been my hands-down favorite. 

That said, if you're really on a budget, consider using a pair of 10-gallon
propane bottles with an automatic switchover valve. You connect both bottles
to the valve and plumb that to your cook stove. When the first bottle is
empty, the valve automatically switches to the second bottle and sends up a
red indicator. You then disconnect the empty bottle, have it filled,
reconnect it, and reset the valve. When the second bottle is empty, it
switches back to the first and sends up a red indicator . . . 

We used that system for a couple of years. Even with our large commercial
gas range, we'd go for month or two between trips to the filling station. It
did get old, though. You can get all the parts you need at any RV dealer. 

Of course, any cook stove that you use will have to be designed for (or
converted to) propane. And, while you're shopping for a stove, don't forget
to get a good range hood. As others have said, propane produces a lot of
water vapor when it burns. If you live in a large house, it's no big deal,
but if you live in a small house, the water vapor can really increase the
indoor humidity. 

- Jim Katen





-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Julie Larson
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 1:37 PM
To: 'Forest Grove local interests list'
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

True. They want $2400 to install it. They would knock it down to $900 if we
hook up even a water heater, but we don't need a new water heater. I am
perfectly happy with electric everything except a stove. 

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Allen Warren
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:31 AM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

I'm guessing the issue is you're only planning to use natural gas for a gas
stove, yes?  If I remember correctly, Northwest Natural won't charge you the
installation cost if you're planning to hook up to multiple appliances that
use a good amount of natural gas: furnace, water heater, clothes dryer.  And
if you're only wanting to hook up a gas stove, Northwest Natural wouldn't
see that as a good enough ROI to offset their installation costs.  Sound
about right?

 
Allen Warren

From: Julie Larson <chopwoodcarrywater at verizon.net>
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:26:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

Thanks for all the advice, everyone! We are thinking about propane because
it is so expensive to pipe gas into our house and I really want a gas stove.


Olehoss, I really think that these times call for looking to all sources for
energy. So yes, in addition to chopping wood, carrying water, I think I also
need to pipe propane.

Julie

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 4:23 PM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Propane

Julie ....
If it were me, and living in town, I would use natural gas.  Because ...
if you use propane ... because water will accumulate from the
codensation , I know ...   before I went to straight wood heat along
with a small electric to use to take the chill off while starting the
wood stove  ... I found that with my 200 gallon tank I had to get the
condensation drawn out, or the tank changed.. 
By the bye ... if you chop wood why wood you need propane or natural
gas?

_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


_______________________________________________
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http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



      
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From Leslie.Neyman at pobox.com  Mon Sep 21 11:11:06 2009
From: Leslie.Neyman at pobox.com (Leslie.Neyman)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 11:11:06 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Emergency "Air Raid" Siren Last Night
In-Reply-To: <286B6C82F1214E91904C691778E71992@DGZCL971>
References: "Julie Larson" <chopwoodcarrywater@verizon.net>'s message of Tue, 
	15	Sep	2009	11:59:13	-0700
	<17668-4AB021D6-11116@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>
	<003801ca36fb$45f7cf40$d1e76dc0$@net>
	<299633.21846.qm@web112108.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<003f01ca370d$689d4400$39d7cc00$@net>
	<C0FAD057A87C407E8EC8FBDF1A061E3A@JimDell>
	<86A60FD4BD5D4BCFA36B387F5907FC6B@DGZCL971>
	<000001ca37ba$27047a10$750d6e30$@net>
	<72236ADE3CE64CF5AEC1408A0256ACC8@DGZCL971>
	<006501ca3897$e8e6afd0$bab40f70$@net>
	<286B6C82F1214E91904C691778E71992@DGZCL971>
Message-ID: <CADFE4A7E20843CBA4816181066C192D@Office>

We live on Filbert Street at the eastern edge of Old Town. I was up with my
daughter around 2:50 a.m. when a siren went off in the vicinity of Joseph
Gale school or the hospital. It sounded for about a minute-woke my daughter
up again- and then stopped. Has anyone heard anything about it? It was
definitely not an emergency vehicle siren. 

Leslie


From rab at jurislex.com  Mon Sep 21 10:50:51 2009
From: rab at jurislex.com (Bob Browning)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 10:50:51 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] [Fwd: FW: Documents Obtained Show GOP Tricks]
Message-ID: <4AB7BCFB.3050601@jurislex.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: /pipermail/attachments/20090921/7539e47f/attachment.html 

From allnutt at verizon.net  Mon Sep 21 12:07:49 2009
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 12:07:49 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] [Fwd: FW: Documents Obtained Show GOP Tricks]
In-Reply-To: <4AB7BCFB.3050601@jurislex.com>
References: <4AB7BCFB.3050601@jurislex.com>
Message-ID: <872CFBE6-A23B-41FC-9DE4-BF34C7BAC2DE@verizon.net>

I'm not sure what to think of the latest scare tactic.
One right wing radio host who comes up with outlandish claims says  
that the H1N1 vaccine has been 'innoculated' with some 'poison' put  
in at the orders of Obama and the secret agency that is out to get  
Americans. And of course people should be wary of getting the shots  
and resist the mass hysteria that is being ginned up about the swine  
flu.

Hmmm.
Maybe it fits in with the memo that you sent. People who listen to  
right wing fringe radio will avoid the vaccine, then when more  
Republicans get the flu they will claim that they were denied health  
care because they were Republicans. A self fulfilling prophecy made  
to order for continuous radio program propaganda.

Katie


On Sep 21, 2009, at 10:50 AM, Bob Browning wrote:

>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject:	FW: Documents Obtained Show GOP Tricks
> Date:	Fri, 28 Aug 2009 10:55:04 -0400
> From:	Jon Vogel, DCCC Executive Director <dccc at dccc.org>
> Reply-To:	dccc at dccc.org
> To:	Bob <rab at jurislex.com>
>
>
>
> Bob--
>
> Republicans know the truth is not on their side. Since the  
> beginning of August recess, they've come out with one outlandish  
> lie after another to derail meaningful health insurance reform --  
> but this one takes the cake.
>
> In a "poll" mailed to supporters, the RNC is actually suggesting  
> that health insurance reform is a Democratic plot to deny health  
> care to Republicans using voter registration data:
>
>
> This is shameless fear-mongering at its worst -- and it is just a  
> preview of the falsehoods, fabrications and outright lies  
> Republicans will be pushing when Congress returns in September. We  
> must be prepared to fight back hard and respond immediately to  
> these outrageous attacks.
>
> Help us reach our $100,000 goal before the August 31st FEC  
> deadline: Contribute $5, $10 or more today to support critical  
> Health Insurance Reform.
>
> Millions of American families are just one serious illness or  
> injury away from financial disaster. The cost of doing nothing is  
> just too high.
>
> A GOP spokeswoman is now trying to walk back this outrageous  
> fabrication after being called out by the media, but don't let them  
> fool you -- Republicans are ready to say or do whatever it takes to  
> kill health insurance reform.
>
> They may have scare tactics and shameless lies, but we have the truth.
>
> Help us fight back. Contribute $5, $10 or more today to support  
> critical Health Insurance Reform.
>
> Thank you,
>
>
> Jon Vogel
> DCCC Executive Director
>
> 	
>
> If you are having trouble with any of the links, cut and paste the  
> following into your browser:
> http://www.dccc.org/rncsurvey9
>
> To make sure you always get our emails add dccc at dccc.org to your  
> address book.
> Find out more about adding us to your address book here.
>
> Paid for by Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee.
> 430 South Capitol Street, S.E. Washington, D.C. 20003
> (202) 863-1500 - www.dccc.org
> Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.
>
> Contributions or gifts to the Democratic Congressional Campaign  
> Committee are not tax deductible.
>
>
>
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From obrzl at verizon.net  Mon Sep 21 10:43:21 2009
From: obrzl at verizon.net (mark oberzil)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 10:43:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] freebees
Message-ID: <17395.18872.qm@web84207.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

We have a bumper crop of delicious Santa Rosa plums; there are probably 20-30 lbs picked and ready to go, all or part, we have bags.
?
Also there are two lovely cats, neutered females, who are becoming foreclosure orphans.? They are short hair, mostly white, older, very tame, affectionate,?and mostly outdoor.
?
Our three cats hate them, and so they need a home.
?
Additionally, there is a long haired tabby female, I believe neutered, who is very shy, probably tameable,?and would make an excellent barn cat.
?
Contact me off list or call 503 357 5093 for any of the above.
?
Thanks,
Mark

From rab at jurislex.com  Mon Sep 21 12:53:08 2009
From: rab at jurislex.com (Bob Browning)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 12:53:08 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] [Fwd: FW: Documents Obtained Show GOP Tricks]
In-Reply-To: <872CFBE6-A23B-41FC-9DE4-BF34C7BAC2DE@verizon.net>
References: <4AB7BCFB.3050601@jurislex.com>
	<872CFBE6-A23B-41FC-9DE4-BF34C7BAC2DE@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <4AB7D9A4.5090303@jurislex.com>

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From khourym at verizon.net  Mon Sep 21 13:41:35 2009
From: khourym at verizon.net (khourym at verizon.net)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 15:41:35 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] freebees
Message-ID: <266178599.584213.1253565695370.JavaMail.root@vms183.mailsrvcs.net>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: /pipermail/attachments/20090921/b036fe94/attachment.html 

From khourym at verizon.net  Mon Sep 21 14:50:37 2009
From: khourym at verizon.net (Martha Khoury)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 14:50:37 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Emergency "Air Raid" Siren Last Night
In-Reply-To: <CADFE4A7E20843CBA4816181066C192D@Office>
References: "Julie Larson" <chopwoodcarrywater@verizon.net>'s message of Tue, 
	15	Sep	2009	11:59:13	-0700	<17668-4AB021D6-11116@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net>
	<003801ca36fb$45f7cf40$d1e76dc0$@net>
	<299633.21846.qm@web112108.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<003f01ca370d$689d4400$39d7cc00$@net>
	<C0FAD057A87C407E8EC8FBDF1A061E3A@JimDell>
	<86A60FD4BD5D4BCFA36B387F5907FC6B@DGZCL971>
	<000001ca37ba$27047a10$750d6e30$@net>
	<72236ADE3CE64CF5AEC1408A0256ACC8@DGZCL971>
	<006501ca3897$e8e6afd0$bab40f70$@net>
	<286B6C82F1214E91904C691778E71992@DGZCL971>
	<CADFE4A7E20843CBA4816181066C192D@Office>
Message-ID: <4809933C-73D2-4657-9AE5-0D11B8F60142@verizon.net>

I heard it, too. Haven't heard what it was about. --Martha K.


On Sep 21, 2009, at 11:11 AM, Leslie.Neyman wrote:

> We live on Filbert Street at the eastern edge of Old Town. I was up  
> with my
> daughter around 2:50 a.m. when a siren went off in the vicinity of  
> Joseph
> Gale school or the hospital. It sounded for about a minute-woke my  
> daughter
> up again- and then stopped. Has anyone heard anything about it? It was
> definitely not an emergency vehicle siren.
>
> Leslie
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From dafracks at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 22 13:23:56 2009
From: dafracks at hotmail.com (Tracy Irwin)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 13:23:56 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Emergency "Air Raid" Siren Last Night
In-Reply-To: <CADFE4A7E20843CBA4816181066C192D@Office>
References: "Julie Larson" <chopwoodcarrywater@verizon.net>'s message of
	Tue, 	15	Sep	2009	11:59:13	-0700
Message-ID: <SNT119-W3168A5F1AC81EB4E541C16C4DC0@phx.gbl>


Ours goes off in Cornelius when they need the volunteer firefighters to report for an emergency situation.
 
> From: Leslie.Neyman at pobox.com
> To: grovenet at rdrop.com
> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 11:11:06 -0700
> Subject: [Grovenet] Emergency "Air Raid" Siren Last Night
> 
> We live on Filbert Street at the eastern edge of Old Town. I was up with my
> daughter around 2:50 a.m. when a siren went off in the vicinity of Joseph
> Gale school or the hospital. It sounded for about a minute-woke my daughter
> up again- and then stopped. Has anyone heard anything about it? It was
> definitely not an emergency vehicle siren. 
> 
> Leslie
> 
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web.  Try  Bing? now
http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPG&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline_try bing_1x1

From Leslie.Neyman at pobox.com  Tue Sep 22 20:29:55 2009
From: Leslie.Neyman at pobox.com (Leslie.Neyman)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 20:29:55 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Emergency "Air Raid" Siren Last Night
In-Reply-To: <SNT119-W3168A5F1AC81EB4E541C16C4DC0@phx.gbl>
References: "Julie Larson" <chopwoodcarrywater@verizon.net>'s message of Tue, 
	15	Sep	2009	11:59:13	-0700
	<SNT119-W3168A5F1AC81EB4E541C16C4DC0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <909DDE2DDF184E8DA31D4CCC772C3BD2@Office>

Thanks, Tracy, I should have thought of that. I've heard the same thing in
Gales Creek.

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Tracy Irwin
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 1:24 PM
To: grovenet at rdrop.com
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Emergency "Air Raid" Siren Last Night


Ours goes off in Cornelius when they need the volunteer firefighters to
report for an emergency situation.
 
> From: Leslie.Neyman at pobox.com
> To: grovenet at rdrop.com
> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 11:11:06 -0700
> Subject: [Grovenet] Emergency "Air Raid" Siren Last Night
> 
> We live on Filbert Street at the eastern edge of Old Town. I was up with
my
> daughter around 2:50 a.m. when a siren went off in the vicinity of Joseph
> Gale school or the hospital. It sounded for about a minute-woke my
daughter
> up again- and then stopped. Has anyone heard anything about it? It was
> definitely not an emergency vehicle siren. 
> 
> Leslie
> 
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web.  Try  BingT now
http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPG&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline_t
ry bing_1x1
_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From isis23ra at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 24 20:01:51 2009
From: isis23ra at yahoo.com (Alana Graham)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 20:01:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] Help the homeless: a common cause
In-Reply-To: <4809933C-73D2-4657-9AE5-0D11B8F60142@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <40010.74680.qm@web55603.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

This note is from Eric Canon, one of our two latest Home Town Heroes!

In today's Oregonian in the Metro Section is Jill Rehkopf Smith's story about Saturday morning's Times Are Tough Forum at Sonrise Church in Hillsboro. The title of the article is: Churches Join Crusade to End Homelessness in Washington County. Amen to that! 

It could also say that "churches join forces with non-profits and service agencies to respond to people who contend with homelessness, hunger and the lack of adequate health care". 

It could also say that "churches are putting aside their differences to come together as caring people to work together as a community united against the results of poverty and despair". 

The Interfaith Committee on Homelessness has been in operation about three and a half years. Every step of the way caring people have stepped up to respond to the plight of their neighbors. Things that seem impossible get done. Walls that separate people from services come tumbling down. Closed hearts open wide. People who see no hope, who think no one cares, are handed a bowl of steaming chili and a slice of corn bread by a smiling volunteer. Appreciate what that means! 

Register NOW for the Times Are Tough Forum by clicking here. You help us by registering and taking the survey, but if this is daunting, just come Saturday at 8:30am. Join with other caring people from across the county who want to learn about the situation and do what they can to respond. We unit around hope. Each of us brings our small gift of what ever we have to give to combine it with others in our community to make a difference in the lives of people who don't think we care about their suffering. Here's the good news: We care! There is hope! We hear the cries! 

REGISTER HERE!

Eric Canon (Chair)
Interfaith Committee on Homelessness
www.ahomeoftheirown .com
(503) 357-3282

PS: On Think Out Loud on OPB this morning they are talking with three families who are dealing with homelessness. It's an enlightening conversation. You can listen again tonight at 9PM or online by clicking here. 




      

From chopwoodcarrywater at verizon.net  Fri Sep 25 10:22:52 2009
From: chopwoodcarrywater at verizon.net (Julie Larson)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 10:22:52 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Math and Chemistry Tutor
Message-ID: <005901ca3e04$d05e1b20$711a5160$@net>

Could someone recommend a math and chemistry tutor for a high school
student? 

 

 


From steelem at pacificu.edu  Fri Sep 25 10:31:03 2009
From: steelem at pacificu.edu (Steele, Mike)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 10:31:03 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Math and Chemistry Tutor
In-Reply-To: <005901ca3e04$d05e1b20$711a5160$@net>
References: <005901ca3e04$d05e1b20$711a5160$@net>
Message-ID: <8D94A946E17E9941AE94FC3AE11CAB7E03C5320799@everest.ad.pacificu.edu>

Julie...I'll forward this to folks here in those departments.

--Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On Behalf Of Julie Larson
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:23 AM
To: 'Forest Grove local interests list'
Subject: [Grovenet] Math and Chemistry Tutor

Could someone recommend a math and chemistry tutor for a high school
student? 

 

 

_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From chopwoodcarrywater at verizon.net  Fri Sep 25 10:34:42 2009
From: chopwoodcarrywater at verizon.net (Julie Larson)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 10:34:42 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Math and Chemistry Tutor
In-Reply-To: <8D94A946E17E9941AE94FC3AE11CAB7E03C5320799@everest.ad.pacificu.edu>
References: <005901ca3e04$d05e1b20$711a5160$@net>
	<8D94A946E17E9941AE94FC3AE11CAB7E03C5320799@everest.ad.pacificu.edu>
Message-ID: <005e01ca3e06$77f03fc0$67d0bf40$@net>

Thank you!

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Steele, Mike
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:31 AM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Math and Chemistry Tutor

Julie...I'll forward this to folks here in those departments.

--Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Julie Larson
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:23 AM
To: 'Forest Grove local interests list'
Subject: [Grovenet] Math and Chemistry Tutor

Could someone recommend a math and chemistry tutor for a high school
student? 

 

 

_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From rab at jurislex.com  Fri Sep 25 10:52:50 2009
From: rab at jurislex.com (Bob Browning)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 10:52:50 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Project 10 to the 100th
Message-ID: <4ABD0372.6010801@jurislex.com>

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URL: /pipermail/attachments/20090925/b991b03b/attachment.html 

From steelem at pacificu.edu  Fri Sep 25 10:54:12 2009
From: steelem at pacificu.edu (Steele, Mike)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 10:54:12 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Math and Chemistry Tutor
In-Reply-To: <005e01ca3e06$77f03fc0$67d0bf40$@net>
References: <005901ca3e04$d05e1b20$711a5160$@net>
	<8D94A946E17E9941AE94FC3AE11CAB7E03C5320799@everest.ad.pacificu.edu>
	<005e01ca3e06$77f03fc0$67d0bf40$@net>
Message-ID: <8D94A946E17E9941AE94FC3AE11CAB7E03C5320824@everest.ad.pacificu.edu>

Julie...here is a quick reply, from Dr. Rick Whiteley (who invented the batteries that went into the Hubble Space Telescope):

Mike,

I can STRONGLY recommend Dr. Ann Gibney.  She can be contacted at ann at aginteriordesign.com or (503) 747 3033. She's been tutoring high school math and science for years.

Rick

Good luck, Julie!

--Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On Behalf Of Julie Larson
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:35 AM
To: 'Forest Grove local interests list'
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Math and Chemistry Tutor

Thank you!

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Steele, Mike
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:31 AM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Math and Chemistry Tutor

Julie...I'll forward this to folks here in those departments.

--Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Julie Larson
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:23 AM
To: 'Forest Grove local interests list'
Subject: [Grovenet] Math and Chemistry Tutor

Could someone recommend a math and chemistry tutor for a high school
student? 

 

 

_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From khourym at verizon.net  Sat Sep 26 12:36:02 2009
From: khourym at verizon.net (Martha Khoury)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 12:36:02 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Music Stand wanted
Message-ID: <88E0A1A5-001E-4183-B09C-6C29B9AB2E9D@verizon.net>

Does anyone have a music stand they are willing to part with for  
little or no cost?

Pls contact me off list. Thanks.

--Martha Khoury

khourym at verizon.net

503-357-7309


From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Mon Sep 28 07:44:31 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 07:44:31 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Total Left Shoulder Joint Replacement
Message-ID: <20984-4AC0CBCF-3600@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>

something I am discussing with the saw bones, and pun intended....A
(something) arthritis has set in REAL BAD... cant even throw the Katt
out.

http://catalog.nucleusinc.com/enlargeexhibit.php?ID=1435&TC=&A=2

-------------- next part --------------
http://catalog.nucleusinc.com/enlargeexhibit.php?ID=1435&TC=&A=2

From tosca at prodigy.net  Mon Sep 28 07:58:39 2009
From: tosca at prodigy.net (Bonnie Combs)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 07:58:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] Total Left Shoulder Joint Replacement
In-Reply-To: <20984-4AC0CBCF-3600@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>
Message-ID: <349429.65766.qm@web81405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hoss, can they give you a? percent success rate for this surgery?

--- On Mon, 9/28/09, Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss <OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net> wrote:


From: Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss <OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net>
Subject: [Grovenet] Total Left Shoulder Joint Replacement
To: GroveNet at rdrop.com
Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 7:44 AM


something I am discussing with the saw bones, and pun intended....A
(something) arthritis has set in REAL BAD... cant even throw the Katt
out.

http://catalog.nucleusinc.com/enlargeexhibit.php?ID=1435&TC=&A=2


-----Inline Attachment Follows-----


http://catalog.nucleusinc.com/enlargeexhibit.php?ID=1435&TC=&A=2

-----Inline Attachment Follows-----


_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

From g-g-steele at comcast.net  Mon Sep 28 08:22:47 2009
From: g-g-steele at comcast.net (Geri)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 08:22:47 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Total Left Shoulder Joint Replacement
References: <20984-4AC0CBCF-3600@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>
Message-ID: <B0EE563D41F84BF4AD58095904E50399@gerianehzkfhvy>

Katt may be happy, but I'm sorry to hear it...

Geri

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss" <OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net>
To: <GroveNet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 7:44 AM
Subject: [Grovenet] Total Left Shoulder Joint Replacement


> something I am discussing with the saw bones, and pun intended....A
> (something) arthritis has set in REAL BAD... cant even throw the Katt
> out.
> 
> http://catalog.nucleusinc.com/enlargeexhibit.php?ID=1435&TC=&A=2
> 
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> http://catalog.nucleusinc.com/enlargeexhibit.php?ID=1435&TC=&A=2
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>


From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Mon Sep 28 08:42:07 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 08:42:07 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Total Left Shoulder Joint Replacement
In-Reply-To: Bonnie Combs <tosca@prodigy.net>'s message of Mon, 28 Sep 2009
	07:58:39 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <22299-4AC0D94F-2829@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net>

Miss "B" asked....Hoss, can they give you a? percent success rate for
this surgery?

Bonnie... this is one question I have not asked yet... but first I need
to find out how much my insurance will pay.  who knows, I just might be
better of with what I've got, for a little is better than nothing at
all!



From allnutt at verizon.net  Mon Sep 28 09:00:33 2009
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 09:00:33 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Total Left Shoulder Joint Replacement
In-Reply-To: <20984-4AC0CBCF-3600@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>
References: <20984-4AC0CBCF-3600@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>
Message-ID: <E35F0261-DBF8-46FE-9D2A-073C47B57C90@verizon.net>

Sorry to hear about your shoulder joint troubles Alan.
One other thing to weigh in your considerations, especially if your  
insurance will cover it, is a visit to a chiropractor or an  
acupuncturist, or both.  Even if you don't use them you will know  
what your true options are other than just the surgery vs. nothing.
It is hard to go around not being able to throw out the Katt among  
other life chores.  And your quality of life will be much better if  
you can have full mobility of both shoulders. (My mom had to have an  
upper arm replaced after she shattered it in a fall down the stairs  
years ago. It is a long struggle to get through rehab after such a  
major surgery but she is much better off with use of both arms.   
Without it, your walking will slowly deteriorate because your arm  
movements keep you balanced on your feet.)
A little is better than nothing as you say, but it is worth the  
struggle to regain as much use of your shoulder as you can. Keep  
asking questions and explore all your options.

Katie


On Sep 28, 2009, at 7:44 AM, Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss wrote:

> something I am discussing with the saw bones, and pun intended....A
> (something) arthritis has set in REAL BAD... cant even throw the Katt
> out.
>
> http://catalog.nucleusinc.com/enlargeexhibit.php?ID=1435&TC=&A=2
>
> http://catalog.nucleusinc.com/enlargeexhibit.php?ID=1435&TC=&A=2
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net  Mon Sep 28 09:26:16 2009
From: OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net (Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 09:26:16 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Total Left Shoulder Joint Replacement
In-Reply-To: Katie Allnutt <allnutt@verizon.net>'s message of Mon, 28 Sep
	2009 09:00:33 -0700
Message-ID: <22297-4AC0E3A8-4612@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net>

new up date... just checked on my insurance.... and even with what the
insurance will pay, which is damn near nothing, and will be cost
prohibitive from my stand-point, so ....  think I'm going to keep on
trucking on the way have been, and stay away from any kind of treatment. 

~alan~ just call me lefty ~ Hoss


From phoenixacup at gmail.com  Mon Sep 28 10:48:54 2009
From: phoenixacup at gmail.com (Jane Burch-Pesses)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 10:48:54 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Total Left Shoulder Joint Replacement
In-Reply-To: <22297-4AC0E3A8-4612@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net>
References: <allnutt@verizon.net>
	<22297-4AC0E3A8-4612@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net>
Message-ID: <d6eeab3d0909281048p5a58e652l623579f350fed21d@mail.gmail.com>

Alan,

I will be doing acupuncture demonstrations in return for donations to
Animals Asia Foundation (one of my favorite charities) at First Wednesday on
October 7.

Jane

On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Alan Domenghini aka an OleHoss <
OleHossTreeFarm at webtv.net> wrote:

> new up date... just checked on my insurance.... and even with what the
> insurance will pay, which is damn near nothing, and will be cost
> prohibitive from my stand-point, so ....  think I'm going to keep on
> trucking on the way have been, and stay away from any kind of treatment.
>
> ~alan~ just call me lefty ~ Hoss
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>



-- 
Phoenix Acupuncture and Chinese Medicine
Home of the TAO (Team Against Obesity)
www.phoenix-acupuncture.net

From steelem at pacificu.edu  Mon Sep 28 12:24:06 2009
From: steelem at pacificu.edu (Steele, Mike)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 12:24:06 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Math and Chemistry Tutor
References: <005901ca3e04$d05e1b20$711a5160$@net> 
Message-ID: <8D94A946E17E9941AE94FC3AE11CAB7E03C5439C9E@everest.ad.pacificu.edu>

Julie...I have another possibility...please contact me at my e-mail so I can put you in touch...

steelem at pacificu.edu

--Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Steele, Mike 
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:31 AM
To: 'Forest Grove local interests list'
Subject: RE: [Grovenet] Math and Chemistry Tutor

Julie...I'll forward this to folks here in those departments.

--Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On Behalf Of Julie Larson
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:23 AM
To: 'Forest Grove local interests list'
Subject: [Grovenet] Math and Chemistry Tutor

Could someone recommend a math and chemistry tutor for a high school
student? 

 

 

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GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From isis23ra at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 29 14:40:35 2009
From: isis23ra at yahoo.com (Alana Graham)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 14:40:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] Find out how eating pie promotes peace 10/01, 6 PM
In-Reply-To: <8D94A946E17E9941AE94FC3AE11CAB7E03C5439C9E@everest.ad.pacificu.edu>
Message-ID: <776749.8850.qm@web55602.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

The folks from Pies for Peace would like to invite all comers to Hear Mercy Corp's Senior Program Officer for Middle East operations explain their efforts in Iraq to lay a foundation for enduring peace. 

The program is Thursday, Oct. 1 at Taylor Auditorium in Marsh Hall, Pacific University from 6-7pm.  

Supporters of Pies for Peace have made it possible for us to send $25,000 to Mercy Corps, earmarked for Iraq. Come find out how eating pie promotes peace!

Hope to see you there.  And may the pie be with you.

Alana


      

From khourym at verizon.net  Tue Sep 29 15:00:03 2009
From: khourym at verizon.net (Martha Khoury)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 15:00:03 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Find out how eating pie promotes peace 10/01, 6 PM
In-Reply-To: <776749.8850.qm@web55602.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <776749.8850.qm@web55602.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <EAD59E87-762B-4D94-A26E-45A99B3AF886@verizon.net>

And will there be pie?

hopefully,
Martha


On Sep 29, 2009, at 2:40 PM, Alana Graham wrote:

> The folks from Pies for Peace would like to invite all comers to  
> Hear Mercy Corp's Senior Program Officer for Middle East operations  
> explain their efforts in Iraq to lay a foundation for enduring peace.
>
> The program is Thursday, Oct. 1 at Taylor Auditorium in Marsh Hall,  
> Pacific University from 6-7pm.
>
> Supporters of Pies for Peace have made it possible for us to send  
> $25,000 to Mercy Corps, earmarked for Iraq. Come find out how eating  
> pie promotes peace!
>
> Hope to see you there.  And may the pie be with you.
>
> Alana
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From waltw at teleport.com  Tue Sep 29 18:52:23 2009
From: waltw at teleport.com (Walt Wentz)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 18:52:23 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Meeting at my place
Message-ID: <E7F33F6C-F786-4A8D-8532-D6E8224F34E4@teleport.com>

Hello, All!
Due to the earlier darkness (and cold, and rain) at the Garden, the  
regular Thursday meetings will be held at my place, 1817 17th Avenue,  
at 7 p.m. until further notice.
This Thursday evening's meeting is an important one, as we will soon  
have to begin getting the garden ready for winter. This will involve  
storing hoses and other equipment, removing dead vegetation and  
composting it, and other necessary preparations for winter. Since a  
few people are going to be doing winter gardening, we will have to  
work around their plots.
Also, I am trying to spend the grant money awarded by the city before  
the deadline. I have invested in irrigation equipment and needed hand  
tools so far, but more suggestions are needed!
Also, we should begin planning next year's garden, taking into  
account lessons we have learned this year. There is a lot to be  
discussed, so please spread the word and attend this meeting!
Walt Wentz