From allnutt at verizon.net  Sun Aug  1 08:49:05 2010
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2010 08:49:05 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Mortgage burning party
In-Reply-To: <6E5953F0-4439-40BA-A29F-DE6910AF4094@verizon.net>
References: <6E5953F0-4439-40BA-A29F-DE6910AF4094@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <9E8D0880-0934-4F56-AEA5-20FF0C8AAED7@verizon.net>

That's wonderful. You and Jo and the rest of the Friends deserve a  
big round of applause for all you do.

Katie

On Jul 31, 2010, at 10:10 PM, David Morelli wrote:

> The Friends of Historic Forest Grove enjoyed a "mortgage burning"  
> party tonight for the Alvin T. Smith house and property.
>
> Hurray and thanks to all who contributed to the project.
>
> David
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From tosca at prodigy.net  Sun Aug  1 11:44:00 2010
From: tosca at prodigy.net (Bonnie B. Combs)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 11:44:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] Police action
Message-ID: <271810.75440.qm@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi GNetters,

Police action in FG this a.m. included closing off some streets on the west 
side, including the intersection of B ST and 19th Ave.? They were looking for a 
Mr. Williams in connection with a murder in Dundee.? He is 30 year old a white 
man with brown hair and eyes, said to be armed and dangerous.? Drives a 2002 
Nissan Sentra, blue or teal in color, with a Montana license plate.

B . Combs



From g-g-steele at comcast.net  Sun Aug  1 11:52:15 2010
From: g-g-steele at comcast.net (Geri Steele)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 11:52:15 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Police action
In-Reply-To: <271810.75440.qm@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <271810.75440.qm@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <81A7C9A9D64C4EC79E8B8ED6E3B77575@GeriPC>

Thanks, Bonnie, for the info.  Mike ran into a sealed off intersection on 
21st, at either Gales Way or C St.  He wondered why there were six police 
cars!


Geri

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Bonnie B. Combs" <tosca at prodigy.net>
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 11:44 AM
To: "grovenet" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Subject: [Grovenet] Police action

> Hi GNetters,
>
> Police action in FG this a.m. included closing off some streets on the 
> west
> side, including the intersection of B ST and 19th Ave.  They were looking 
> for a
> Mr. Williams in connection with a murder in Dundee.  He is 30 year old a 
> white
> man with brown hair and eyes, said to be armed and dangerous.  Drives a 
> 2002
> Nissan Sentra, blue or teal in color, with a Montana license plate.
>
> B . Combs
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> 



From allnutt at verizon.net  Sun Aug  1 16:07:04 2010
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2010 16:07:04 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] newspaper
Message-ID: <CE6B9372-0CD5-42D6-8F57-7F14E44BDA09@verizon.net>

I just found a site that others might be interested in.
(Maybe it's been around a while and I just found it I don't know.)

It is Reader Supported News. Just like when you could subscribe to a  
newspaper and the reporters would go out and give you real news. Not  
just the corporate feed.

http://readersupportednews.org/


Hope you enjoy it. Today was my first day to read it.

Katie
PS I still plan to keep my News Times subscription. It does the best  
job around for local news.





From angela.reiswig at gmail.com  Tue Aug  3 14:11:45 2010
From: angela.reiswig at gmail.com (Angela Reiswig)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 14:11:45 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] =?iso-8859-1?q?Studio_Space_needed_one_day_a_week=2E?=
	=?iso-8859-1?q?=2E=2EAnimat=E9_Voice_Studio?=
Message-ID: <AANLkTikjAWFfTj_wym9SsX+qOZAVObqs_M1FDvtrXZ5O@mail.gmail.com>

I need something that will hold up to 12 people at a time, Downtown FG!
Wednesdays only.   Been operating out of the Sparrow Ballroom for the past
year but owner is getting ready to sell.
Thank you for your help!
Angela

From phoenixacup at gmail.com  Tue Aug  3 14:50:37 2010
From: phoenixacup at gmail.com (Jane Burch-Pesses)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 14:50:37 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] An opportunity to contribute
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=ddbdn3h8ab3_sQ5gfz9-JT735FkRXGgSrcWfK@mail.gmail.com>

Hello, Fellow Grovenuts,

It's that time of year again.  The Forest Grove School District is accepting
donations for Operation School Supplies.  It's a program that provides a
backpack full of required school supplies to low-income students whose
parents would not be able to buy them for them.  (The District janitorial
staff volunteers their time to stuff donated backpacks with the supplies
each child needs.)  Since more than 50% of the students in the District
qualify for free lunch (can't remember the exact percentage but it's pretty
high) that's a lot of kids who need school supplies.

There are lots of ways to donate.  You can drop off a donation at the
District office on the 1700 block of main street.  (Can't miss it.  It used
to be a school.)  Or you could drop your donations off at the FG Chamber
office on Pacific Ave. (a block east of the Chevron station downtown).  You
can find a list of required items at the Forest Grove School District web
site.

You can donate money.  (Places like Office Depot give the District a hefty
discount.)

Or you can donate school supplies.  Lots of great sales on school supplies
going on right now, for those of you that like to shop.  Bi-Mart has 10
packs of Bic pens 4/$1 and filler paper 4/$1.  Target has crayons, school
glue, glue sticks, rulers, pencil sharpeners, and pink erasers for 20 or 25
cents each and composition books for 50 cents each.  Office Depot has
protractors for 5 cents each and childrens scissors 2/99 cents.  Walgreens
has some pretty nice backpacks 2/19.99, 10 pencils for 9 cents, a six pack
of highlighters for 19 cents (if you have one of their frequent buyer type
cards).

If the District is fortunate enough to have more donations than they need,
the remaining supplies are divided among the schools so that kids who lose,
use up, or can't find their supplies during the year can be provided what
they need.

Those of you who happen to be Chamber members can bring your donations to
the Chamber lunch on Monday and yours truly will see that they are delivered
to the District office.  Our District teachers have enough to worry about
with cuts to the school year but none to the student test score standards.
They should not have to also worry about whether the students have paper or
a pencil or whatever.  (OK, the last two sentences are just my opinion, but
the rest of this is factual.)

BTW, last year when I was collecting donations for Operation School
Supplies, one person tried to tell me that the school have a line item in
their budget for school supplies for the kids.  FYI, that person was
obviously from Washington state.  We don't have such a thing here in Oregon.

Jane B-P

-- 
Phoenix Acupuncture and Chinese Medicine
Home of the TAO (Team Against Obesity)
www.phoenix-acupuncture.net

From debbratland at gmail.com  Tue Aug  3 15:36:41 2010
From: debbratland at gmail.com (Debra Bratland)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 15:36:41 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet]
	=?iso-8859-1?q?Studio_Space_needed_one_day_a_week=2E?=
	=?iso-8859-1?q?=2E=2EAnimat=E9_Voice_Studio?=
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikjAWFfTj_wym9SsX+qOZAVObqs_M1FDvtrXZ5O@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikjAWFfTj_wym9SsX+qOZAVObqs_M1FDvtrXZ5O@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=R6MK4oCfhQA8ZKOyAbZrfViPQPNMcWvBge2oz@mail.gmail.com>

Have you checked out the Grange Hall?  I'm also wondering if there might be
a church that would work out ... ?

On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 2:11 PM, Angela Reiswig <angela.reiswig at gmail.com>wrote:

> I need something that will hold up to 12 people at a time, Downtown FG!
> Wednesdays only.   Been operating out of the Sparrow Ballroom for the past
> year but owner is getting ready to sell.
> Thank you for your help!
> Angela
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>

From allnutt at verizon.net  Tue Aug  3 16:41:10 2010
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2010 16:41:10 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] An opportunity to contribute
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=ddbdn3h8ab3_sQ5gfz9-JT735FkRXGgSrcWfK@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=ddbdn3h8ab3_sQ5gfz9-JT735FkRXGgSrcWfK@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <13EAB17C-908D-449F-A7B2-056D14DF383D@verizon.net>

Thanks Jane,
   I picked up some crayons (Crayola brand because they really are  
better) for 25 cents each the other day figuring someone would do a  
drive like this.
   Is there a target date to turn things in? I figure there is no  
actual deadline but probably a date that things are going to be  
divided up and packed up. I'll drop things off by then.

Katie

On Aug 3, 2010, at 2:50 PM, Jane Burch-Pesses wrote:

> Hello, Fellow Grovenuts,
>
> It's that time of year again.  The Forest Grove School District is  
> accepting
> donations for Operation School Supplies.  It's a program that  
> provides a
> backpack full of required school supplies to low-income students whose
> parents would not be able to buy them for them.  (The District  
> janitorial
> staff volunteers their time to stuff donated backpacks with the  
> supplies
> each child needs.)  Since more than 50% of the students in the  
> District
> qualify for free lunch (can't remember the exact percentage but  
> it's pretty
> high) that's a lot of kids who need school supplies.
>
> There are lots of ways to donate.  You can drop off a donation at the
> District office on the 1700 block of main street.  (Can't miss it.   
> It used
> to be a school.)  Or you could drop your donations off at the FG  
> Chamber
> office on Pacific Ave. (a block east of the Chevron station  
> downtown).  You
> can find a list of required items at the Forest Grove School  
> District web
> site.
>
> You can donate money.  (Places like Office Depot give the District  
> a hefty
> discount.)
>
> Or you can donate school supplies.  Lots of great sales on school  
> supplies
> going on right now, for those of you that like to shop.  Bi-Mart  
> has 10
> packs of Bic pens 4/$1 and filler paper 4/$1.  Target has crayons,  
> school
> glue, glue sticks, rulers, pencil sharpeners, and pink erasers for  
> 20 or 25
> cents each and composition books for 50 cents each.  Office Depot has
> protractors for 5 cents each and childrens scissors 2/99 cents.   
> Walgreens
> has some pretty nice backpacks 2/19.99, 10 pencils for 9 cents, a  
> six pack
> of highlighters for 19 cents (if you have one of their frequent  
> buyer type
> cards).
>
> If the District is fortunate enough to have more donations than  
> they need,
> the remaining supplies are divided among the schools so that kids  
> who lose,
> use up, or can't find their supplies during the year can be  
> provided what
> they need.
>
> Those of you who happen to be Chamber members can bring your  
> donations to
> the Chamber lunch on Monday and yours truly will see that they are  
> delivered
> to the District office.  Our District teachers have enough to worry  
> about
> with cuts to the school year but none to the student test score  
> standards.
> They should not have to also worry about whether the students have  
> paper or
> a pencil or whatever.  (OK, the last two sentences are just my  
> opinion, but
> the rest of this is factual.)
>
> BTW, last year when I was collecting donations for Operation School
> Supplies, one person tried to tell me that the school have a line  
> item in
> their budget for school supplies for the kids.  FYI, that person was
> obviously from Washington state.  We don't have such a thing here  
> in Oregon.
>
> Jane B-P
>
> -- 
> Phoenix Acupuncture and Chinese Medicine
> Home of the TAO (Team Against Obesity)
> www.phoenix-acupuncture.net
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From phoenixacup at gmail.com  Tue Aug  3 19:50:38 2010
From: phoenixacup at gmail.com (Jane Burch-Pesses)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 19:50:38 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] An opportunity to contribute
In-Reply-To: <13EAB17C-908D-449F-A7B2-056D14DF383D@verizon.net>
References: <AANLkTi=ddbdn3h8ab3_sQ5gfz9-JT735FkRXGgSrcWfK@mail.gmail.com>
	<13EAB17C-908D-449F-A7B2-056D14DF383D@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTika4=sURJuPNUsEtgkcHnb6mof8WO9eH7BZa-+d@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, Katie, they pack the backpacks a day or two before school starts so it
will be at the end of the month.  I don't know the exact date but I will
email Connie at the District and ask her what the date is.

Jane B-P

On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 4:41 PM, Katie Allnutt <allnutt at verizon.net> wrote:

> Thanks Jane,
>   I picked up some crayons (Crayola brand because they really are
> better) for 25 cents each the other day figuring someone would do a
> drive like this.
>   Is there a target date to turn things in? I figure there is no
> actual deadline but probably a date that things are going to be
> divided up and packed up. I'll drop things off by then.
>
> Katie
>
> On Aug 3, 2010, at 2:50 PM, Jane Burch-Pesses wrote:
>
> > Hello, Fellow Grovenuts,
> >
> > It's that time of year again.  The Forest Grove School District is
> > accepting
> > donations for Operation School Supplies.  It's a program that
> > provides a
> > backpack full of required school supplies to low-income students whose
> > parents would not be able to buy them for them.  (The District
> > janitorial
> > staff volunteers their time to stuff donated backpacks with the
> > supplies
> > each child needs.)  Since more than 50% of the students in the
> > District
> > qualify for free lunch (can't remember the exact percentage but
> > it's pretty
> > high) that's a lot of kids who need school supplies.
> >
> > There are lots of ways to donate.  You can drop off a donation at the
> > District office on the 1700 block of main street.  (Can't miss it.
> > It used
> > to be a school.)  Or you could drop your donations off at the FG
> > Chamber
> > office on Pacific Ave. (a block east of the Chevron station
> > downtown).  You
> > can find a list of required items at the Forest Grove School
> > District web
> > site.
> >
> > You can donate money.  (Places like Office Depot give the District
> > a hefty
> > discount.)
> >
> > Or you can donate school supplies.  Lots of great sales on school
> > supplies
> > going on right now, for those of you that like to shop.  Bi-Mart
> > has 10
> > packs of Bic pens 4/$1 and filler paper 4/$1.  Target has crayons,
> > school
> > glue, glue sticks, rulers, pencil sharpeners, and pink erasers for
> > 20 or 25
> > cents each and composition books for 50 cents each.  Office Depot has
> > protractors for 5 cents each and childrens scissors 2/99 cents.
> > Walgreens
> > has some pretty nice backpacks 2/19.99, 10 pencils for 9 cents, a
> > six pack
> > of highlighters for 19 cents (if you have one of their frequent
> > buyer type
> > cards).
> >
> > If the District is fortunate enough to have more donations than
> > they need,
> > the remaining supplies are divided among the schools so that kids
> > who lose,
> > use up, or can't find their supplies during the year can be
> > provided what
> > they need.
> >
> > Those of you who happen to be Chamber members can bring your
> > donations to
> > the Chamber lunch on Monday and yours truly will see that they are
> > delivered
> > to the District office.  Our District teachers have enough to worry
> > about
> > with cuts to the school year but none to the student test score
> > standards.
> > They should not have to also worry about whether the students have
> > paper or
> > a pencil or whatever.  (OK, the last two sentences are just my
> > opinion, but
> > the rest of this is factual.)
> >
> > BTW, last year when I was collecting donations for Operation School
> > Supplies, one person tried to tell me that the school have a line
> > item in
> > their budget for school supplies for the kids.  FYI, that person was
> > obviously from Washington state.  We don't have such a thing here
> > in Oregon.
> >
> > Jane B-P
> >
> > --
> > Phoenix Acupuncture and Chinese Medicine
> > Home of the TAO (Team Against Obesity)
> > www.phoenix-acupuncture.net
> > _______________________________________________
> > GroveNet mailing list
> > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>



-- 
Phoenix Acupuncture and Chinese Medicine
Home of the TAO (Team Against Obesity)
www.phoenix-acupuncture.net

From oldredwagon at verizon.net  Tue Aug  3 19:56:09 2010
From: oldredwagon at verizon.net (Marian Cakarnis)
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2010 19:56:09 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet]
	=?iso-8859-1?q?Studio_Space_needed_one_day_a_week=2E?=
	=?iso-8859-1?q?=2E=2EAnimat=E9_Voice_Studio?=
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=R6MK4oCfhQA8ZKOyAbZrfViPQPNMcWvBge2oz@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikjAWFfTj_wym9SsX+qOZAVObqs_M1FDvtrXZ5O@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=R6MK4oCfhQA8ZKOyAbZrfViPQPNMcWvBge2oz@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <11A874EF6D6C48ECB76DDF93553D6296@JeffVAIO>

I'm not exactly sure what the Animate Voice Studio is, but some options I 
can think of include:
The Forest Grove Community and Senior Center (across from the Chevron 
station)
Rogers room at the FG Library
What about all the empty buildings in and around Forest Grove?  What do they 
do with the Times Litho building or the Ruralite space, etc.
Are any of the schools appropriate?
The Elks building is used for TaiKwondo classes, etc
The Main St. studio might be available for rent when not being used for 
rehearsals.
There is empty space in the building next to Scotty's Drive-in
the space next to OK Floral is currently empty.
And whatever happened to the building across the street from the Accidental 
Bookmaker?

I'm sure there are many others.  You might consider giving the city a call 
to see if they have any recommendations.

Just my 2 cents,
Marian

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Debra Bratland" <debbratland at gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 3:36 PM
To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Subject: Re: [Grovenet]	Studio Space needed one day a week...Animat? Voice 
Studio

> Have you checked out the Grange Hall?  I'm also wondering if there might 
> be
> a church that would work out ... ?
>
> On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 2:11 PM, Angela Reiswig 
> <angela.reiswig at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I need something that will hold up to 12 people at a time, Downtown FG!
>> Wednesdays only.   Been operating out of the Sparrow Ballroom for the 
>> past
>> year but owner is getting ready to sell.
>> Thank you for your help!
>> Angela
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet 



From phoenixacup at gmail.com  Wed Aug  4 16:01:18 2010
From: phoenixacup at gmail.com (Jane Burch-Pesses)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 16:01:18 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] An opportunity to contribute
In-Reply-To: <13EAB17C-908D-449F-A7B2-056D14DF383D@verizon.net>
References: <AANLkTi=ddbdn3h8ab3_sQ5gfz9-JT735FkRXGgSrcWfK@mail.gmail.com>
	<13EAB17C-908D-449F-A7B2-056D14DF383D@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTim9AioRDxL7gsYANJG35dxDT21ZoR1=XsRpk3SH@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, Katie,

Here is the information I got from Connie.  I'm going to drop my stuff off
on or before the 24th just to make it easy for them.

"We are putting together the backpacks on Thursday, Aug. 26. It would be
great to have the donations by the morning of Wednesdeay, Aug. 25 because we
will be organizing all of the donations that afternoon, so we can do an
assembly line on Thursday to put the backpacks together."

Thanks for donating!

Jane B-P

On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 4:41 PM, Katie Allnutt <allnutt at verizon.net> wrote:

> Thanks Jane,
>   I picked up some crayons (Crayola brand because they really are
> better) for 25 cents each the other day figuring someone would do a
> drive like this.
>   Is there a target date to turn things in? I figure there is no
> actual deadline but probably a date that things are going to be
> divided up and packed up. I'll drop things off by then.
>
> Katie
>
> On Aug 3, 2010, at 2:50 PM, Jane Burch-Pesses wrote:
>
> > Hello, Fellow Grovenuts,
> >
> > It's that time of year again.  The Forest Grove School District is
> > accepting
> > donations for Operation School Supplies.  It's a program that
> > provides a
> > backpack full of required school supplies to low-income students whose
> > parents would not be able to buy them for them.  (The District
> > janitorial
> > staff volunteers their time to stuff donated backpacks with the
> > supplies
> > each child needs.)  Since more than 50% of the students in the
> > District
> > qualify for free lunch (can't remember the exact percentage but
> > it's pretty
> > high) that's a lot of kids who need school supplies.
> >
> > There are lots of ways to donate.  You can drop off a donation at the
> > District office on the 1700 block of main street.  (Can't miss it.
> > It used
> > to be a school.)  Or you could drop your donations off at the FG
> > Chamber
> > office on Pacific Ave. (a block east of the Chevron station
> > downtown).  You
> > can find a list of required items at the Forest Grove School
> > District web
> > site.
> >
> > You can donate money.  (Places like Office Depot give the District
> > a hefty
> > discount.)
> >
> > Or you can donate school supplies.  Lots of great sales on school
> > supplies
> > going on right now, for those of you that like to shop.  Bi-Mart
> > has 10
> > packs of Bic pens 4/$1 and filler paper 4/$1.  Target has crayons,
> > school
> > glue, glue sticks, rulers, pencil sharpeners, and pink erasers for
> > 20 or 25
> > cents each and composition books for 50 cents each.  Office Depot has
> > protractors for 5 cents each and childrens scissors 2/99 cents.
> > Walgreens
> > has some pretty nice backpacks 2/19.99, 10 pencils for 9 cents, a
> > six pack
> > of highlighters for 19 cents (if you have one of their frequent
> > buyer type
> > cards).
> >
> > If the District is fortunate enough to have more donations than
> > they need,
> > the remaining supplies are divided among the schools so that kids
> > who lose,
> > use up, or can't find their supplies during the year can be
> > provided what
> > they need.
> >
> > Those of you who happen to be Chamber members can bring your
> > donations to
> > the Chamber lunch on Monday and yours truly will see that they are
> > delivered
> > to the District office.  Our District teachers have enough to worry
> > about
> > with cuts to the school year but none to the student test score
> > standards.
> > They should not have to also worry about whether the students have
> > paper or
> > a pencil or whatever.  (OK, the last two sentences are just my
> > opinion, but
> > the rest of this is factual.)
> >
> > BTW, last year when I was collecting donations for Operation School
> > Supplies, one person tried to tell me that the school have a line
> > item in
> > their budget for school supplies for the kids.  FYI, that person was
> > obviously from Washington state.  We don't have such a thing here
> > in Oregon.
> >
> > Jane B-P
> >
> > --
> > Phoenix Acupuncture and Chinese Medicine
> > Home of the TAO (Team Against Obesity)
> > www.phoenix-acupuncture.net
> > _______________________________________________
> > GroveNet mailing list
> > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>



-- 
Phoenix Acupuncture and Chinese Medicine
Home of the TAO (Team Against Obesity)
www.phoenix-acupuncture.net

From allnutt at verizon.net  Wed Aug  4 16:31:36 2010
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2010 16:31:36 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] An opportunity to contribute
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTim9AioRDxL7gsYANJG35dxDT21ZoR1=XsRpk3SH@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=ddbdn3h8ab3_sQ5gfz9-JT735FkRXGgSrcWfK@mail.gmail.com>
	<13EAB17C-908D-449F-A7B2-056D14DF383D@verizon.net>
	<AANLkTim9AioRDxL7gsYANJG35dxDT21ZoR1=XsRpk3SH@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D37A7DBE-D8D1-4483-B6DA-8D529624B169@verizon.net>

Thanks for finding out the details.
New crayons are so fascinating and new notebooks hold such promise  
for the future.
It's fun to think that some young budding author may be writing great  
thoughts on paper or using the exact pen that someone donates. A  
great future ambassador, diplomat or even president may be incubating  
right here in FG for all that we know.  : )

Katie

On Aug 4, 2010, at 4:01 PM, Jane Burch-Pesses wrote:

> Hi, Katie,
>
> Here is the information I got from Connie.  I'm going to drop my  
> stuff off
> on or before the 24th just to make it easy for them.
>
> "We are putting together the backpacks on Thursday, Aug. 26. It  
> would be
> great to have the donations by the morning of Wednesdeay, Aug. 25  
> because we
> will be organizing all of the donations that afternoon, so we can  
> do an
> assembly line on Thursday to put the backpacks together."
>
> Thanks for donating!
>
> Jane B-P
>
> On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 4:41 PM, Katie Allnutt <allnutt at verizon.net>  
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Jane,
>>   I picked up some crayons (Crayola brand because they really are
>> better) for 25 cents each the other day figuring someone would do a
>> drive like this.
>>   Is there a target date to turn things in? I figure there is no
>> actual deadline but probably a date that things are going to be
>> divided up and packed up. I'll drop things off by then.
>>
>> Katie
>>
>> On Aug 3, 2010, at 2:50 PM, Jane Burch-Pesses wrote:
>>
>>> Hello, Fellow Grovenuts,
>>>
>>> It's that time of year again.  The Forest Grove School District is
>>> accepting
>>> donations for Operation School Supplies.  It's a program that
>>> provides a
>>> backpack full of required school supplies to low-income students  
>>> whose
>>> parents would not be able to buy them for them.  (The District
>>> janitorial
>>> staff volunteers their time to stuff donated backpacks with the
>>> supplies
>>> each child needs.)  Since more than 50% of the students in the
>>> District
>>> qualify for free lunch (can't remember the exact percentage but
>>> it's pretty
>>> high) that's a lot of kids who need school supplies.
>>>
>>> There are lots of ways to donate.  You can drop off a donation at  
>>> the
>>> District office on the 1700 block of main street.  (Can't miss it.
>>> It used
>>> to be a school.)  Or you could drop your donations off at the FG
>>> Chamber
>>> office on Pacific Ave. (a block east of the Chevron station
>>> downtown).  You
>>> can find a list of required items at the Forest Grove School
>>> District web
>>> site.
>>>
>>> You can donate money.  (Places like Office Depot give the District
>>> a hefty
>>> discount.)
>>>
>>> Or you can donate school supplies.  Lots of great sales on school
>>> supplies
>>> going on right now, for those of you that like to shop.  Bi-Mart
>>> has 10
>>> packs of Bic pens 4/$1 and filler paper 4/$1.  Target has crayons,
>>> school
>>> glue, glue sticks, rulers, pencil sharpeners, and pink erasers for
>>> 20 or 25
>>> cents each and composition books for 50 cents each.  Office Depot  
>>> has
>>> protractors for 5 cents each and childrens scissors 2/99 cents.
>>> Walgreens
>>> has some pretty nice backpacks 2/19.99, 10 pencils for 9 cents, a
>>> six pack
>>> of highlighters for 19 cents (if you have one of their frequent
>>> buyer type
>>> cards).
>>>
>>> If the District is fortunate enough to have more donations than
>>> they need,
>>> the remaining supplies are divided among the schools so that kids
>>> who lose,
>>> use up, or can't find their supplies during the year can be
>>> provided what
>>> they need.
>>>
>>> Those of you who happen to be Chamber members can bring your
>>> donations to
>>> the Chamber lunch on Monday and yours truly will see that they are
>>> delivered
>>> to the District office.  Our District teachers have enough to worry
>>> about
>>> with cuts to the school year but none to the student test score
>>> standards.
>>> They should not have to also worry about whether the students have
>>> paper or
>>> a pencil or whatever.  (OK, the last two sentences are just my
>>> opinion, but
>>> the rest of this is factual.)
>>>
>>> BTW, last year when I was collecting donations for Operation School
>>> Supplies, one person tried to tell me that the school have a line
>>> item in
>>> their budget for school supplies for the kids.  FYI, that person was
>>> obviously from Washington state.  We don't have such a thing here
>>> in Oregon.
>>>
>>> Jane B-P
>>>
>>> --
>>> Phoenix Acupuncture and Chinese Medicine
>>> Home of the TAO (Team Against Obesity)
>>> www.phoenix-acupuncture.net
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GroveNet mailing list
>>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Phoenix Acupuncture and Chinese Medicine
> Home of the TAO (Team Against Obesity)
> www.phoenix-acupuncture.net
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From phoenixacup at gmail.com  Wed Aug  4 17:44:48 2010
From: phoenixacup at gmail.com (Jane Burch-Pesses)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 17:44:48 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] An opportunity to contribute
In-Reply-To: <D37A7DBE-D8D1-4483-B6DA-8D529624B169@verizon.net>
References: <AANLkTi=ddbdn3h8ab3_sQ5gfz9-JT735FkRXGgSrcWfK@mail.gmail.com>
	<13EAB17C-908D-449F-A7B2-056D14DF383D@verizon.net>
	<AANLkTim9AioRDxL7gsYANJG35dxDT21ZoR1=XsRpk3SH@mail.gmail.com>
	<D37A7DBE-D8D1-4483-B6DA-8D529624B169@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikn2Jw=XSCEJ41t7dOmG6kkX6vXoT_=8LgU_631@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, exactly!  We need to be sure they have pens and paper to capture those
great thoughts!  And crayons to capture their art inspirations.

Jane B-P

On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Katie Allnutt <allnutt at verizon.net> wrote:

> Thanks for finding out the details.
> New crayons are so fascinating and new notebooks hold such promise
> for the future.
> It's fun to think that some young budding author may be writing great
> thoughts on paper or using the exact pen that someone donates. A
> great future ambassador, diplomat or even president may be incubating
> right here in FG for all that we know.  : )
>
> Katie
>
> On Aug 4, 2010, at 4:01 PM, Jane Burch-Pesses wrote:
>
> > Hi, Katie,
> >
> > Here is the information I got from Connie.  I'm going to drop my
> > stuff off
> > on or before the 24th just to make it easy for them.
> >
> > "We are putting together the backpacks on Thursday, Aug. 26. It
> > would be
> > great to have the donations by the morning of Wednesdeay, Aug. 25
> > because we
> > will be organizing all of the donations that afternoon, so we can
> > do an
> > assembly line on Thursday to put the backpacks together."
> >
> > Thanks for donating!
> >
> > Jane B-P
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 4:41 PM, Katie Allnutt <allnutt at verizon.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks Jane,
> >>   I picked up some crayons (Crayola brand because they really are
> >> better) for 25 cents each the other day figuring someone would do a
> >> drive like this.
> >>   Is there a target date to turn things in? I figure there is no
> >> actual deadline but probably a date that things are going to be
> >> divided up and packed up. I'll drop things off by then.
> >>
> >> Katie
> >>
> >> On Aug 3, 2010, at 2:50 PM, Jane Burch-Pesses wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hello, Fellow Grovenuts,
> >>>
> >>> It's that time of year again.  The Forest Grove School District is
> >>> accepting
> >>> donations for Operation School Supplies.  It's a program that
> >>> provides a
> >>> backpack full of required school supplies to low-income students
> >>> whose
> >>> parents would not be able to buy them for them.  (The District
> >>> janitorial
> >>> staff volunteers their time to stuff donated backpacks with the
> >>> supplies
> >>> each child needs.)  Since more than 50% of the students in the
> >>> District
> >>> qualify for free lunch (can't remember the exact percentage but
> >>> it's pretty
> >>> high) that's a lot of kids who need school supplies.
> >>>
> >>> There are lots of ways to donate.  You can drop off a donation at
> >>> the
> >>> District office on the 1700 block of main street.  (Can't miss it.
> >>> It used
> >>> to be a school.)  Or you could drop your donations off at the FG
> >>> Chamber
> >>> office on Pacific Ave. (a block east of the Chevron station
> >>> downtown).  You
> >>> can find a list of required items at the Forest Grove School
> >>> District web
> >>> site.
> >>>
> >>> You can donate money.  (Places like Office Depot give the District
> >>> a hefty
> >>> discount.)
> >>>
> >>> Or you can donate school supplies.  Lots of great sales on school
> >>> supplies
> >>> going on right now, for those of you that like to shop.  Bi-Mart
> >>> has 10
> >>> packs of Bic pens 4/$1 and filler paper 4/$1.  Target has crayons,
> >>> school
> >>> glue, glue sticks, rulers, pencil sharpeners, and pink erasers for
> >>> 20 or 25
> >>> cents each and composition books for 50 cents each.  Office Depot
> >>> has
> >>> protractors for 5 cents each and childrens scissors 2/99 cents.
> >>> Walgreens
> >>> has some pretty nice backpacks 2/19.99, 10 pencils for 9 cents, a
> >>> six pack
> >>> of highlighters for 19 cents (if you have one of their frequent
> >>> buyer type
> >>> cards).
> >>>
> >>> If the District is fortunate enough to have more donations than
> >>> they need,
> >>> the remaining supplies are divided among the schools so that kids
> >>> who lose,
> >>> use up, or can't find their supplies during the year can be
> >>> provided what
> >>> they need.
> >>>
> >>> Those of you who happen to be Chamber members can bring your
> >>> donations to
> >>> the Chamber lunch on Monday and yours truly will see that they are
> >>> delivered
> >>> to the District office.  Our District teachers have enough to worry
> >>> about
> >>> with cuts to the school year but none to the student test score
> >>> standards.
> >>> They should not have to also worry about whether the students have
> >>> paper or
> >>> a pencil or whatever.  (OK, the last two sentences are just my
> >>> opinion, but
> >>> the rest of this is factual.)
> >>>
> >>> BTW, last year when I was collecting donations for Operation School
> >>> Supplies, one person tried to tell me that the school have a line
> >>> item in
> >>> their budget for school supplies for the kids.  FYI, that person was
> >>> obviously from Washington state.  We don't have such a thing here
> >>> in Oregon.
> >>>
> >>> Jane B-P
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Phoenix Acupuncture and Chinese Medicine
> >>> Home of the TAO (Team Against Obesity)
> >>> www.phoenix-acupuncture.net
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> GroveNet mailing list
> >>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> >>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> GroveNet mailing list
> >> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> >> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Phoenix Acupuncture and Chinese Medicine
> > Home of the TAO (Team Against Obesity)
> > www.phoenix-acupuncture.net
> > _______________________________________________
> > GroveNet mailing list
> > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>



-- 
Phoenix Acupuncture and Chinese Medicine
Home of the TAO (Team Against Obesity)
www.phoenix-acupuncture.net

From g-g-steele at comcast.net  Wed Aug  4 18:03:18 2010
From: g-g-steele at comcast.net (Geri Steele)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 18:03:18 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] An opportunity to contribute
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTim9AioRDxL7gsYANJG35dxDT21ZoR1=XsRpk3SH@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=ddbdn3h8ab3_sQ5gfz9-JT735FkRXGgSrcWfK@mail.gmail.com><13EAB17C-908D-449F-A7B2-056D14DF383D@verizon.net>
	<AANLkTim9AioRDxL7gsYANJG35dxDT21ZoR1=XsRpk3SH@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <89DF86E1E6124D098082A73253650FCD@GeriPC>


Appreciate the info, Jane!


Geri

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Jane Burch-Pesses" <phoenixacup at gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 4:01 PM
To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] An opportunity to contribute

> Hi, Katie,
>
> Here is the information I got from Connie.  I'm going to drop my stuff off
> on or before the 24th just to make it easy for them.
>
> "We are putting together the backpacks on Thursday, Aug. 26. It would be
> great to have the donations by the morning of Wednesdeay, Aug. 25 because 
> we
> will be organizing all of the donations that afternoon, so we can do an
> assembly line on Thursday to put the backpacks together."
>
> Thanks for donating!
>
> Jane B-P
>
> On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 4:41 PM, Katie Allnutt <allnutt at verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Jane,
>>   I picked up some crayons (Crayola brand because they really are
>> better) for 25 cents each the other day figuring someone would do a
>> drive like this.
>>   Is there a target date to turn things in? I figure there is no
>> actual deadline but probably a date that things are going to be
>> divided up and packed up. I'll drop things off by then.
>>
>> Katie
>>
>> On Aug 3, 2010, at 2:50 PM, Jane Burch-Pesses wrote:
>>
>> > Hello, Fellow Grovenuts,
>> >
>> > It's that time of year again.  The Forest Grove School District is
>> > accepting
>> > donations for Operation School Supplies.  It's a program that
>> > provides a
>> > backpack full of required school supplies to low-income students whose
>> > parents would not be able to buy them for them.  (The District
>> > janitorial
>> > staff volunteers their time to stuff donated backpacks with the
>> > supplies
>> > each child needs.)  Since more than 50% of the students in the
>> > District
>> > qualify for free lunch (can't remember the exact percentage but
>> > it's pretty
>> > high) that's a lot of kids who need school supplies.
>> >
>> > There are lots of ways to donate.  You can drop off a donation at the
>> > District office on the 1700 block of main street.  (Can't miss it.
>> > It used
>> > to be a school.)  Or you could drop your donations off at the FG
>> > Chamber
>> > office on Pacific Ave. (a block east of the Chevron station
>> > downtown).  You
>> > can find a list of required items at the Forest Grove School
>> > District web
>> > site.
>> >
>> > You can donate money.  (Places like Office Depot give the District
>> > a hefty
>> > discount.)
>> >
>> > Or you can donate school supplies.  Lots of great sales on school
>> > supplies
>> > going on right now, for those of you that like to shop.  Bi-Mart
>> > has 10
>> > packs of Bic pens 4/$1 and filler paper 4/$1.  Target has crayons,
>> > school
>> > glue, glue sticks, rulers, pencil sharpeners, and pink erasers for
>> > 20 or 25
>> > cents each and composition books for 50 cents each.  Office Depot has
>> > protractors for 5 cents each and childrens scissors 2/99 cents.
>> > Walgreens
>> > has some pretty nice backpacks 2/19.99, 10 pencils for 9 cents, a
>> > six pack
>> > of highlighters for 19 cents (if you have one of their frequent
>> > buyer type
>> > cards).
>> >
>> > If the District is fortunate enough to have more donations than
>> > they need,
>> > the remaining supplies are divided among the schools so that kids
>> > who lose,
>> > use up, or can't find their supplies during the year can be
>> > provided what
>> > they need.
>> >
>> > Those of you who happen to be Chamber members can bring your
>> > donations to
>> > the Chamber lunch on Monday and yours truly will see that they are
>> > delivered
>> > to the District office.  Our District teachers have enough to worry
>> > about
>> > with cuts to the school year but none to the student test score
>> > standards.
>> > They should not have to also worry about whether the students have
>> > paper or
>> > a pencil or whatever.  (OK, the last two sentences are just my
>> > opinion, but
>> > the rest of this is factual.)
>> >
>> > BTW, last year when I was collecting donations for Operation School
>> > Supplies, one person tried to tell me that the school have a line
>> > item in
>> > their budget for school supplies for the kids.  FYI, that person was
>> > obviously from Washington state.  We don't have such a thing here
>> > in Oregon.
>> >
>> > Jane B-P
>> >
>> > --
>> > Phoenix Acupuncture and Chinese Medicine
>> > Home of the TAO (Team Against Obesity)
>> > www.phoenix-acupuncture.net
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > GroveNet mailing list
>> > GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Phoenix Acupuncture and Chinese Medicine
> Home of the TAO (Team Against Obesity)
> www.phoenix-acupuncture.net
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> 



From phoenixacup at gmail.com  Wed Aug  4 18:35:43 2010
From: phoenixacup at gmail.com (Jane Burch-Pesses)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 18:35:43 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] An opportunity to contribute
In-Reply-To: <89DF86E1E6124D098082A73253650FCD@GeriPC>
References: <AANLkTi=ddbdn3h8ab3_sQ5gfz9-JT735FkRXGgSrcWfK@mail.gmail.com>
	<13EAB17C-908D-449F-A7B2-056D14DF383D@verizon.net>
	<AANLkTim9AioRDxL7gsYANJG35dxDT21ZoR1=XsRpk3SH@mail.gmail.com>
	<89DF86E1E6124D098082A73253650FCD@GeriPC>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikNWRN2Qz_x=23cs-na_6Cj5HfKSCCuYswudjrw@mail.gmail.com>

My pleasure, Geri!

Jane B-P

On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 6:03 PM, Geri Steele <g-g-steele at comcast.net> wrote:

>
> Appreciate the info, Jane!
>
>
> Geri
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Jane Burch-Pesses" <phoenixacup at gmail.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 4:01 PM
> To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] An opportunity to contribute
>
> > Hi, Katie,
> >
> > Here is the information I got from Connie.  I'm going to drop my stuff
> off
> > on or before the 24th just to make it easy for them.
> >
> > "We are putting together the backpacks on Thursday, Aug. 26. It would be
> > great to have the donations by the morning of Wednesdeay, Aug. 25 because
> > we
> > will be organizing all of the donations that afternoon, so we can do an
> > assembly line on Thursday to put the backpacks together."
> >
> > Thanks for donating!
> >
> > Jane B-P
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 4:41 PM, Katie Allnutt <allnutt at verizon.net>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks Jane,
> >>   I picked up some crayons (Crayola brand because they really are
> >> better) for 25 cents each the other day figuring someone would do a
> >> drive like this.
> >>   Is there a target date to turn things in? I figure there is no
> >> actual deadline but probably a date that things are going to be
> >> divided up and packed up. I'll drop things off by then.
> >>
> >> Katie
> >>
> >> On Aug 3, 2010, at 2:50 PM, Jane Burch-Pesses wrote:
> >>
> >> > Hello, Fellow Grovenuts,
> >> >
> >> > It's that time of year again.  The Forest Grove School District is
> >> > accepting
> >> > donations for Operation School Supplies.  It's a program that
> >> > provides a
> >> > backpack full of required school supplies to low-income students whose
> >> > parents would not be able to buy them for them.  (The District
> >> > janitorial
> >> > staff volunteers their time to stuff donated backpacks with the
> >> > supplies
> >> > each child needs.)  Since more than 50% of the students in the
> >> > District
> >> > qualify for free lunch (can't remember the exact percentage but
> >> > it's pretty
> >> > high) that's a lot of kids who need school supplies.
> >> >
> >> > There are lots of ways to donate.  You can drop off a donation at the
> >> > District office on the 1700 block of main street.  (Can't miss it.
> >> > It used
> >> > to be a school.)  Or you could drop your donations off at the FG
> >> > Chamber
> >> > office on Pacific Ave. (a block east of the Chevron station
> >> > downtown).  You
> >> > can find a list of required items at the Forest Grove School
> >> > District web
> >> > site.
> >> >
> >> > You can donate money.  (Places like Office Depot give the District
> >> > a hefty
> >> > discount.)
> >> >
> >> > Or you can donate school supplies.  Lots of great sales on school
> >> > supplies
> >> > going on right now, for those of you that like to shop.  Bi-Mart
> >> > has 10
> >> > packs of Bic pens 4/$1 and filler paper 4/$1.  Target has crayons,
> >> > school
> >> > glue, glue sticks, rulers, pencil sharpeners, and pink erasers for
> >> > 20 or 25
> >> > cents each and composition books for 50 cents each.  Office Depot has
> >> > protractors for 5 cents each and childrens scissors 2/99 cents.
> >> > Walgreens
> >> > has some pretty nice backpacks 2/19.99, 10 pencils for 9 cents, a
> >> > six pack
> >> > of highlighters for 19 cents (if you have one of their frequent
> >> > buyer type
> >> > cards).
> >> >
> >> > If the District is fortunate enough to have more donations than
> >> > they need,
> >> > the remaining supplies are divided among the schools so that kids
> >> > who lose,
> >> > use up, or can't find their supplies during the year can be
> >> > provided what
> >> > they need.
> >> >
> >> > Those of you who happen to be Chamber members can bring your
> >> > donations to
> >> > the Chamber lunch on Monday and yours truly will see that they are
> >> > delivered
> >> > to the District office.  Our District teachers have enough to worry
> >> > about
> >> > with cuts to the school year but none to the student test score
> >> > standards.
> >> > They should not have to also worry about whether the students have
> >> > paper or
> >> > a pencil or whatever.  (OK, the last two sentences are just my
> >> > opinion, but
> >> > the rest of this is factual.)
> >> >
> >> > BTW, last year when I was collecting donations for Operation School
> >> > Supplies, one person tried to tell me that the school have a line
> >> > item in
> >> > their budget for school supplies for the kids.  FYI, that person was
> >> > obviously from Washington state.  We don't have such a thing here
> >> > in Oregon.
> >> >
> >> > Jane B-P
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Phoenix Acupuncture and Chinese Medicine
> >> > Home of the TAO (Team Against Obesity)
> >> > www.phoenix-acupuncture.net
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > GroveNet mailing list
> >> > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> >> > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> GroveNet mailing list
> >> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> >> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Phoenix Acupuncture and Chinese Medicine
> > Home of the TAO (Team Against Obesity)
> > www.phoenix-acupuncture.net
> > _______________________________________________
> > GroveNet mailing list
> > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>



-- 
Phoenix Acupuncture and Chinese Medicine
Home of the TAO (Team Against Obesity)
www.phoenix-acupuncture.net

From ejbaeza at mac.com  Sat Aug  7 10:22:14 2010
From: ejbaeza at mac.com (Edward Baeza)
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2010 10:22:14 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] EJ's Introduction
Message-ID: <1D561F8E-6F91-4984-A58C-41D0C9C6341C@mac.com>

Dear GroveNet members,
My name is EJ.  My wife and I have lived in Forest Grove since April  
of 2007.  We purchased a home here and make our living in and around  
Forest Grove.  I am a photographer, artist and musician.  I play  
acoustic guitar and sing old and new favorites as well as my own  
original songs.  I play at Urban Decanter, The Friendly Vine, Plum  
Hill Vineyards and The Horse Radish from time to time.  I recently  
became president of the City Club of Forest Grove and I am a member  
of The Valley Art Association Board.  My wife is a jewelry designer  
and her work can be found at A Framer's Touch in Forest Grove.  We  
love living here and are doing our best to help keep Forest Grove's  
small town charm and to insure that this community prospers and  
remains relevant so our youngsters choose to stay and live here as  
adults.  Thank you for welcoming us here and we look forward to  
participating in the on-going discussions about the issues that are  
important to Forest Grove.

All the best,

E. J. Baeza
Midlife Crisis Studios
Forest Grove, Oregon




From waltw at teleport.com  Sat Aug  7 10:37:42 2010
From: waltw at teleport.com (Walt Wentz)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 10:37:42 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] EJ's Introduction
In-Reply-To: <1D561F8E-6F91-4984-A58C-41D0C9C6341C@mac.com>
References: <1D561F8E-6F91-4984-A58C-41D0C9C6341C@mac.com>
Message-ID: <9D23C682-0ED0-4A98-964D-F44F298D6C3D@teleport.com>

Welcome, EJ!
"Midlife Crisis Studio--" great name!

I just got back to town after a 10-day trip to San Diego to attend my  
son's wedding. My whole trip went wonderfully well! As an ordained  
minister of the Universal Life Church, by gum (since 1969), the kids  
wanted me to officiate, so I did... writing the ceremony and  
delivering it with only a minor stutter or two. The bride is a lovely  
girl-- slim, intelligent, competent, elegant and happy-- and her  
family is of Mediterranean type, exuberant and boisterous. They  
should boost Zack's spirits immeasurably. The wedding party was still  
going strong when we left. No plates and glasses were being smashed  
in the fireplace, but I suspect that was only because  there was no  
fireplace in the room!

After Sally, my ex, and Amber, my daughter, went home by plane, I  
boarded the Coast Starlight Express at San Diego's grand old Moorish- 
style Santa Fe Station, and broke my journey home for two days at Los  
Angeles-- visiting an old University girlfriend and Josh Quagmire, a  
longtime cartoonist and friend. Then re-boarded the train at LA's  
grand old Union Station for the run up to Oakland, where two more  
friends (a professor of ancient mythology and her husband, a retired  
engineer), took me out to spend two days at their place in Bolinas, a  
fantastic and beautiful little town inhabited mostly by artists and  
former hippies, and located on a scenic and mountainous spit of land  
projecting into the Pacific. I was seriously tempted to sell  
everything and move there-- even to live in a packing crate if  
necessary-- until I realized the place is generally even colder and  
foggier than it is here in Oregon!
So I boarded the train again at Oakland's modern, cold and ugly Jack  
London Square station for the longest, overnight stretch of the  
journey-- from 10 a.m. Thursday to 4 p.m. Friday-- exhausted after a  
night trying to sleep through the snores of the passengers around  
me-- and got home to hot summer weather and found my own cats and  
house were OK, although mail and other responsibilities had piled up  
in my absence. Maybe that was why I (briefly) considered moving to  
Bolinas. No way.
WW
On Aug 7, 2010, at 10:22 AM, Edward Baeza wrote:

> Dear GroveNet members,
> My name is EJ.  My wife and I have lived in Forest Grove since April
> of 2007.  We purchased a home here and make our living in and around
> Forest Grove.  I am a photographer, artist and musician.  I play
> acoustic guitar and sing old and new favorites as well as my own
> original songs.  I play at Urban Decanter, The Friendly Vine, Plum
> Hill Vineyards and The Horse Radish from time to time.  I recently
> became president of the City Club of Forest Grove and I am a member
> of The Valley Art Association Board.  My wife is a jewelry designer
> and her work can be found at A Framer's Touch in Forest Grove.  We
> love living here and are doing our best to help keep Forest Grove's
> small town charm and to insure that this community prospers and
> remains relevant so our youngsters choose to stay and live here as
> adults.  Thank you for welcoming us here and we look forward to
> participating in the on-going discussions about the issues that are
> important to Forest Grove.
>
> All the best,
>
> E. J. Baeza
> Midlife Crisis Studios
> Forest Grove, Oregon
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From jimzzz42 at gmail.com  Sat Aug  7 10:55:47 2010
From: jimzzz42 at gmail.com (Jim Zaleski)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 10:55:47 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] EJ's Introduction
In-Reply-To: <1D561F8E-6F91-4984-A58C-41D0C9C6341C@mac.com>
References: <1D561F8E-6F91-4984-A58C-41D0C9C6341C@mac.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinf1WL_WLCGA1UuNva6Q4jYaq94uKYJ=h1erEZm@mail.gmail.com>

Welcome EJ. Great to have you on board. Hope you'll enjoy Grovenet and will
feel comfortable enough to join in on the conversations at any time (which
have been unusually quiet lately). We need new and energetic members, and
with your background (some of which I share,) your input should add to the
already rich and diverse discourse we have all enjoyed here on Grovenet over
the years.

peace,
jimz

PS: If you're curious about previous discussions, you can peruse the
archives for the list for an inside look at Grovenet's dynamics. It's great
stuff btw!!!



On Sat, Aug 7, 2010 at 10:22 AM, Edward Baeza <ejbaeza at mac.com> wrote:

> Dear GroveNet members,
> My name is EJ.  My wife and I have lived in Forest Grove since April
> of 2007.  We purchased a home here and make our living in and around
> Forest Grove.  I am a photographer, artist and musician.  I play
> acoustic guitar and sing old and new favorites as well as my own
> original songs.  I play at Urban Decanter, The Friendly Vine, Plum
> Hill Vineyards and The Horse Radish from time to time.  I recently
> became president of the City Club of Forest Grove and I am a member
> of The Valley Art Association Board.  My wife is a jewelry designer
> and her work can be found at A Framer's Touch in Forest Grove.  We
> love living here and are doing our best to help keep Forest Grove's
> small town charm and to insure that this community prospers and
> remains relevant so our youngsters choose to stay and live here as
> adults.  Thank you for welcoming us here and we look forward to
> participating in the on-going discussions about the issues that are
> important to Forest Grove.
>
> All the best,
>
> E. J. Baeza
> Midlife Crisis Studios
> Forest Grove, Oregon
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>

From allnutt at verizon.net  Sat Aug  7 15:57:16 2010
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2010 15:57:16 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] EJ's Introduction
In-Reply-To: <1D561F8E-6F91-4984-A58C-41D0C9C6341C@mac.com>
References: <1D561F8E-6F91-4984-A58C-41D0C9C6341C@mac.com>
Message-ID: <87B49B04-F60A-430D-AED3-9EB54E11F072@verizon.net>

Welcome to Grovenet!
Forest Grove is a great place and since you have made it through the  
first few years I hope you stay a lot longer.

Katie

On Aug 7, 2010, at 10:22 AM, Edward Baeza wrote:

> Dear GroveNet members,
> My name is EJ.  My wife and I have lived in Forest Grove since April
> of 2007.  We purchased a home here and make our living in and around
> Forest Grove.  I am a photographer, artist and musician.  I play
> acoustic guitar and sing old and new favorites as well as my own
> original songs.  I play at Urban Decanter, The Friendly Vine, Plum
> Hill Vineyards and The Horse Radish from time to time.  I recently
> became president of the City Club of Forest Grove and I am a member
> of The Valley Art Association Board.  My wife is a jewelry designer
> and her work can be found at A Framer's Touch in Forest Grove.  We
> love living here and are doing our best to help keep Forest Grove's
> small town charm and to insure that this community prospers and
> remains relevant so our youngsters choose to stay and live here as
> adults.  Thank you for welcoming us here and we look forward to
> participating in the on-going discussions about the issues that are
> important to Forest Grove.
>
> All the best,
>
> E. J. Baeza
> Midlife Crisis Studios
> Forest Grove, Oregon
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From oldredwagon at verizon.net  Sat Aug  7 20:05:17 2010
From: oldredwagon at verizon.net (Marian Cakarnis)
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2010 20:05:17 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] FG School District 'Late Start'
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinf1WL_WLCGA1UuNva6Q4jYaq94uKYJ=h1erEZm@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1D561F8E-6F91-4984-A58C-41D0C9C6341C@mac.com>
	<AANLkTinf1WL_WLCGA1UuNva6Q4jYaq94uKYJ=h1erEZm@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43C5CCFDC50940BB93E774EC3D2F68D9@JeffVAIO>

Since Jim mentioned how quiet GroveNet has been lately, I thought I'd post something.  

It seems the new "late start" on Wednesdays has been a topic of discussion recently - on the School District's Facebook page and a recent article in the News-Times.  There is a scheduled School Board meeting this coming Monday at 6:30.  Although there isn't anything on the agenda about the 'late start', it might be mentioned.  Every meeting usually has an agenda item titled 'Unscheduled Public Appearances', if anyone is interested in commenting.  

Here is a link to the agenda/packet: http://fgsd.schoolfusion.us/modules/groups/homepagefiles/cms/788348/File/Superintendent/2010-11%20board%20packets/August%209,%202010%20board%20packet.pdf?sessionid=b9bb400ccb494d95e63c1489511dbd12

Marian


--------------------------------------------------
From: "Jim Zaleski" <jimzzz42 at gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 10:55 AM
To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] EJ's Introduction

> Welcome EJ. Great to have you on board. Hope you'll enjoy Grovenet and will
> feel comfortable enough to join in on the conversations at any time (which
> have been unusually quiet lately). We need new and energetic members, and
> with your background (some of which I share,) your input should add to the
> already rich and diverse discourse we have all enjoyed here on Grovenet over
> the years.
> 
> peace,
> jimz
> 
> PS: If you're curious about previous discussions, you can peruse the
> archives for the list for an inside look at Grovenet's dynamics. It's great
> stuff btw!!!
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Aug 7, 2010 at 10:22 AM, Edward Baeza <ejbaeza at mac.com> wrote:
> 
>> Dear GroveNet members,
>> My name is EJ.  My wife and I have lived in Forest Grove since April
>> of 2007.  We purchased a home here and make our living in and around
>> Forest Grove.  I am a photographer, artist and musician.  I play
>> acoustic guitar and sing old and new favorites as well as my own
>> original songs.  I play at Urban Decanter, The Friendly Vine, Plum
>> Hill Vineyards and The Horse Radish from time to time.  I recently
>> became president of the City Club of Forest Grove and I am a member
>> of The Valley Art Association Board.  My wife is a jewelry designer
>> and her work can be found at A Framer's Touch in Forest Grove.  We
>> love living here and are doing our best to help keep Forest Grove's
>> small town charm and to insure that this community prospers and
>> remains relevant so our youngsters choose to stay and live here as
>> adults.  Thank you for welcoming us here and we look forward to
>> participating in the on-going discussions about the issues that are
>> important to Forest Grove.
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> E. J. Baeza
>> Midlife Crisis Studios
>> Forest Grove, Oregon
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

From debbratland at gmail.com  Sat Aug  7 20:13:43 2010
From: debbratland at gmail.com (Debra Bratland)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 20:13:43 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Yellow Left Arrow
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=ieyE07EdoSuSuRnEmiXWJfN2MErSW_MmNHWYF@mail.gmail.com>

I went to Hillsboro this week for the first time in awhile, and I noticed
that Hillsboro has changed their traffic signals - many now have a yellow
left-turn arrow.

As a driver, I really like this idea.  It means I don't have to idle my car
for several minutes waiting for a green arrow when no one is coming at me in
the other direction (as is necessary at the Fred Meyer entrance!).  I can
just clear my way and go!

David - you know a lot about traffic flow and traffic controls.  I'm curious
as to your take on yellow left-turn arrows.  Am I missing something, or is
should these yellow left-turn arrows be used at more intersections?

I welcome others' comments too, of course!

Deb Bratland

From smithsmith at gmail.com  Sat Aug  7 20:26:47 2010
From: smithsmith at gmail.com (b Smith)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 20:26:47 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Yellow Left Arrow
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=ieyE07EdoSuSuRnEmiXWJfN2MErSW_MmNHWYF@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=ieyE07EdoSuSuRnEmiXWJfN2MErSW_MmNHWYF@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikz+rCa4RQaoJaj6uVGE5oRdrYoxd6sGQ5ZKfFd@mail.gmail.com>

Here is the definitive yellow arrow info:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9U0LJ1r9Us

I was behind someone today who just pulled out in the middle of the
intersection on the flashing yellow arrow and used it as a red-light turn.

Enjoy!
Barb

On Sat, Aug 7, 2010 at 8:13 PM, Debra Bratland <debbratland at gmail.com>wrote:

> I went to Hillsboro this week for the first time in awhile, and I noticed
> that Hillsboro has changed their traffic signals - many now have a yellow
> left-turn arrow.
>
> As a driver, I really like this idea.  It means I don't have to idle my car
> for several minutes waiting for a green arrow when no one is coming at me
> in
> the other direction (as is necessary at the Fred Meyer entrance!).  I can
> just clear my way and go!
>
> David - you know a lot about traffic flow and traffic controls.  I'm
> curious
> as to your take on yellow left-turn arrows.  Am I missing something, or is
> should these yellow left-turn arrows be used at more intersections?
>
> I welcome others' comments too, of course!
>
> Deb Bratland
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>

From oldredwagon at verizon.net  Sat Aug  7 21:10:26 2010
From: oldredwagon at verizon.net (Marian Cakarnis)
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2010 21:10:26 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Yellow Left Arrow
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikz+rCa4RQaoJaj6uVGE5oRdrYoxd6sGQ5ZKfFd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=ieyE07EdoSuSuRnEmiXWJfN2MErSW_MmNHWYF@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikz+rCa4RQaoJaj6uVGE5oRdrYoxd6sGQ5ZKfFd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <05CFA6D98EB64A32818EA17B5ADF69F9@JeffVAIO>

Thanks for the video!  One of the first times I came across this, the yellow 
light was flashing and I waited at the intersection in the left turn lane. 
Then it stopped flashing and I figured I could then go cautiously, so I 
approached the intersection and started to turn, when it suddenly turned 
red!  I thought the flashing yellow meant that it would turn red shortly, 
but it's exactly the opposite, it's solid yellow, just before it turns red. 
At least I know better now.

It is nice to be able to turn, but I wonder about the safety factor.  I 
suppose maybe I'm the only one confused and will probably get used to the 
procedure.  Is there any record of other cities experience with these yellow 
turn arrows?  Is there any impact to safety?

Just wondering,
Marian

--------------------------------------------------
From: "b Smith" <smithsmith at gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 8:26 PM
To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Yellow Left Arrow

> Here is the definitive yellow arrow info:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9U0LJ1r9Us
>
> I was behind someone today who just pulled out in the middle of the
> intersection on the flashing yellow arrow and used it as a red-light turn.
>
> Enjoy!
> Barb
>
> On Sat, Aug 7, 2010 at 8:13 PM, Debra Bratland 
> <debbratland at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I went to Hillsboro this week for the first time in awhile, and I noticed
>> that Hillsboro has changed their traffic signals - many now have a yellow
>> left-turn arrow.
>>
>> As a driver, I really like this idea.  It means I don't have to idle my 
>> car
>> for several minutes waiting for a green arrow when no one is coming at me
>> in
>> the other direction (as is necessary at the Fred Meyer entrance!).  I can
>> just clear my way and go!
>>
>> David - you know a lot about traffic flow and traffic controls.  I'm
>> curious
>> as to your take on yellow left-turn arrows.  Am I missing something, or 
>> is
>> should these yellow left-turn arrows be used at more intersections?
>>
>> I welcome others' comments too, of course!
>>
>> Deb Bratland
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet 



From obrzl at verizon.net  Sat Aug  7 22:22:08 2010
From: obrzl at verizon.net (obrzl at verizon.net)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2010 00:22:08 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] Yellow Left Arrow
Message-ID: <834520662.82337.1281244929126.JavaMail.root@vznit170066>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100808/eaacf4b1/attachment.html 

From jbcoops at yahoo.com  Sun Aug  8 01:16:51 2010
From: jbcoops at yahoo.com (Jeff Cooper)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 01:16:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] Yellow Left Arrow
In-Reply-To: <05CFA6D98EB64A32818EA17B5ADF69F9@JeffVAIO>
Message-ID: <348956.24470.qm@web55004.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

The flashing yellow makes complete sense once you comprehend the concept behind it.? There's a left turn only lane for a reason.? It's always on a four lane highway and an extra 3rd lane is provided because it's very difficult to make a left turn against "normal" oncoming traffic, which is usually heavy.

However there are many times (particularly at night) when highway traffic is very light, and this is when the flashing yellows make the most sense.? Although I would be comfortable and welcome with them 24/7, I think they should be integrated at intersections such as 47 and Pacific from maybe 8pm to 8am (I'm sure this is one of the discussion points).? 

Yes, you need to be extra careful when turning left, but you always do that anyway.? More dangerous is the (already enacted) left turn onto a one way and against the light or even the no stop right turn at a number of highway 4 way stops.? Some intersections like the one at Maple and Pacific may be more iffy because you don't have a full view of traffic coming north on 19th as they round the curve, but anywhere there is a left turn lane they should implement this.? Just watch for oncoming cars and pedestrians/bicycles/wheelchairs etc. in the crosswalk... just as you would normally do before making a left turn anyway... right?

--Jeff Cooper

--- On Sat, 8/7/10, Marian Cakarnis <oldredwagon at verizon.net> wrote:

From: Marian Cakarnis <oldredwagon at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Yellow Left Arrow
To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Date: Saturday, August 7, 2010, 9:10 PM

Thanks for the video!? One of the first times I came across this, the yellow 
light was flashing and I waited at the intersection in the left turn lane. 
Then it stopped flashing and I figured I could then go cautiously, so I 
approached the intersection and started to turn, when it suddenly turned 
red!? I thought the flashing yellow meant that it would turn red shortly, 
but it's exactly the opposite, it's solid yellow, just before it turns red. 
At least I know better now.

It is nice to be able to turn, but I wonder about the safety factor.? I 
suppose maybe I'm the only one confused and will probably get used to the 
procedure.? Is there any record of other cities experience with these yellow 
turn arrows?? Is there any impact to safety?

Just wondering,
Marian



      

From g-g-steele at comcast.net  Sun Aug  8 13:16:23 2010
From: g-g-steele at comcast.net (Geri Steele)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 13:16:23 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Yellow Left Arrow
In-Reply-To: <834520662.82337.1281244929126.JavaMail.root@vznit170066>
References: <834520662.82337.1281244929126.JavaMail.root@vznit170066>
Message-ID: <CC6E05A0BFA54936824F94BC5321133E@GeriPC>

Yes, thanks, Barb!  Well-explained and am passing it around to
drivers I know. :)


Geri


From: obrzl at verizon.net 
Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 10:22 PM
To: grovenet at rdrop.com 
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Yellow Left Arrow


Got it!  And I LOVE the music they've added to the traffic signals in the video!
Mark


Aug 7, 2010 10:27:06 PM, grovenet at rdrop.com wrote:

  >Here is the definitive yellow arrow info:
  >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9U0LJ1r9Us
  >
  >I was behind someone today who just pulled out in the middle of the
  >intersection on the flashing yellow arrow and used it as a red-light turn.
  >
  >Enjoy!
  >Barb
  >
  >On Sat, Aug 7, 2010 at 8:13 PM, Debra Bratland <debbratland at gmail.com>wrote:
  >
  >> I went to Hillsboro this week for the first time in awhile, and I noticed
  >> that Hillsboro has changed their traffic signals - many now have a yellow
  >> left-turn arrow.
  >>
  >> As a driver, I really like this idea. It means I don't have to idle 
  >my car
  >> for several minutes waiting for a green arrow when no one is coming at 
  >me
  >> in
  >> the other direction (as is necessary at the Fred Meyer entrance!). I can
  >> just clear my way and go!
  >>
  >> David - you know a lot about traffic flow and traffic controls. I'm
  >> curious
  >> as to your take on yellow left-turn arrows. Am I missing something, or 
  >is
  >> should these yellow left-turn arrows be used at more intersections?
  >>
  >> I welcome others' comments too, of course!
  >>
  >> Deb Bratland
  >> _______________________________________________
  >> GroveNet mailing list
  >> GroveNet at rdrop.com
  >> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
  >>
  >_______________________________________________
  >GroveNet mailing list
  >GroveNet at rdrop.com
  >http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
  >


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

From smithsmith at gmail.com  Sun Aug  8 13:19:29 2010
From: smithsmith at gmail.com (b Smith)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 13:19:29 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Yellow Left Arrow
In-Reply-To: <CC6E05A0BFA54936824F94BC5321133E@GeriPC>
References: <834520662.82337.1281244929126.JavaMail.root@vznit170066>
	<CC6E05A0BFA54936824F94BC5321133E@GeriPC>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=8-tEwP0GndTdVcG_++qfQn4zCJEEC39KAAexu@mail.gmail.com>

I felt a little silly watching the video - but I really did not know the
rules of the road on this one.   My guess is that a lot of folks don't know
either, as evidenced by the red light turns I saw yesterday!
:)

On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 1:16 PM, Geri Steele <g-g-steele at comcast.net> wrote:

> Yes, thanks, Barb!  Well-explained and am passing it around to
> drivers I know. :)
>
>
> Geri
>
>
> From: obrzl at verizon.net
> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 10:22 PM
> To: grovenet at rdrop.com
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Yellow Left Arrow
>
>
> Got it!  And I LOVE the music they've added to the traffic signals in the
> video!
> Mark
>
>
> Aug 7, 2010 10:27:06 PM, grovenet at rdrop.com wrote:
>
>  >Here is the definitive yellow arrow info:
>  >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9U0LJ1r9Us
>  >
>  >I was behind someone today who just pulled out in the middle of the
>  >intersection on the flashing yellow arrow and used it as a red-light
> turn.
>  >
>  >Enjoy!
>  >Barb
>  >
>  >On Sat, Aug 7, 2010 at 8:13 PM, Debra Bratland <debbratland at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>  >
>  >> I went to Hillsboro this week for the first time in awhile, and I
> noticed
>  >> that Hillsboro has changed their traffic signals - many now have a
> yellow
>  >> left-turn arrow.
>  >>
>  >> As a driver, I really like this idea. It means I don't have to idle
>  >my car
>  >> for several minutes waiting for a green arrow when no one is coming at
>  >me
>  >> in
>  >> the other direction (as is necessary at the Fred Meyer entrance!). I
> can
>  >> just clear my way and go!
>  >>
>  >> David - you know a lot about traffic flow and traffic controls. I'm
>  >> curious
>  >> as to your take on yellow left-turn arrows. Am I missing something, or
>  >is
>  >> should these yellow left-turn arrows be used at more intersections?
>  >>
>  >> I welcome others' comments too, of course!
>  >>
>  >> Deb Bratland
>  >> _______________________________________________
>  >> GroveNet mailing list
>  >> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>  >> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>  >>
>  >_______________________________________________
>  >GroveNet mailing list
>  >GroveNet at rdrop.com
>  >http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>  >
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>

From jo.david at verizon.net  Sun Aug  8 21:38:52 2010
From: jo.david at verizon.net (David Morelli)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2010 21:38:52 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Yellow Left Arrow
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=ieyE07EdoSuSuRnEmiXWJfN2MErSW_MmNHWYF@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=ieyE07EdoSuSuRnEmiXWJfN2MErSW_MmNHWYF@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <68766329-9CCD-487E-8B0B-FDC97099663F@verizon.net>

I also learned something from Barb's posting.  Since I haven't encountered them, I cannot offer a personal opinion.

I would expect that they will improve the off-peak traffic movements.  Since, our problem intersections have heavy traffic for several hours of the day, it isn't going to improve traffic in those time periods.

David


On Aug 7, 2010, at 8:13 PM, Debra Bratland wrote:

> ...
> David - you know a lot about traffic flow and traffic controls.  I'm curious as to your take on yellow left-turn arrows.  Am I missing something, or is should these yellow left-turn arrows be used at more intersections?




From jo.david at verizon.net  Sun Aug  8 22:12:32 2010
From: jo.david at verizon.net (David Morelli)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2010 22:12:32 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] EJ's Introduction
In-Reply-To: <1D561F8E-6F91-4984-A58C-41D0C9C6341C@mac.com>
References: <1D561F8E-6F91-4984-A58C-41D0C9C6341C@mac.com>
Message-ID: <8E16161D-5644-4090-9529-E5F02C02115E@verizon.net>

We have enjoyed listening to E.J.'s music and viewing his photography.  Now we can read his deepest thoughts <smile>

David

On Aug 7, 2010, at 10:22 AM, Edward Baeza wrote:

> Dear GroveNet members,
> My name is EJ.  My wife and I have lived in Forest Grove since April of 2007.



From ejbaeza at mac.com  Mon Aug  9 12:47:58 2010
From: ejbaeza at mac.com (Edward Baeza)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 12:47:58 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] EJ's Introduction
In-Reply-To: <8E16161D-5644-4090-9529-E5F02C02115E@verizon.net>
References: <1D561F8E-6F91-4984-A58C-41D0C9C6341C@mac.com>
	<8E16161D-5644-4090-9529-E5F02C02115E@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <C8D0C762-B43D-4310-B595-E66C432193EB@mac.com>

David,
Thanks for the warm welcome and the kind words.

EJ

On Aug 8, 2010, at 10:12 PM, David Morelli wrote:

> We have enjoyed listening to E.J.'s music and viewing his  
> photography.  Now we can read his deepest thoughts <smile>
>
> David
>
> On Aug 7, 2010, at 10:22 AM, Edward Baeza wrote:
>
>> Dear GroveNet members,
>> My name is EJ.  My wife and I have lived in Forest Grove since  
>> April of 2007.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From canam58 at msn.com  Tue Aug 10 20:22:03 2010
From: canam58 at msn.com (DWIGHT HOLMES)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 20:22:03 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Football cleats
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=ieyE07EdoSuSuRnEmiXWJfN2MErSW_MmNHWYF@mail.gmail.com><AANLkTikz+rCa4RQaoJaj6uVGE5oRdrYoxd6sGQ5ZKfFd@mail.gmail.com>
	<05CFA6D98EB64A32818EA17B5ADF69F9@JeffVAIO>
References: <AANLkTi=ieyE07EdoSuSuRnEmiXWJfN2MErSW_MmNHWYF@mail.gmail.com><AANLkTikz+rCa4RQaoJaj6uVGE5oRdrYoxd6sGQ5ZKfFd@mail.gmail.com>
	<05CFA6D98EB64A32818EA17B5ADF69F9@JeffVAIO>
Message-ID: <BAY148-ds1252EDE69DCB9436D4AE2AA8960@phx.gbl>

I was wondering if any parent out there has a son who played football at Neil Armstrong in the past year or so , knows what kind of cleats are allowed ( screw in or molded ) ?

Thanks, 

D H 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Marian Cakarnis<mailto:oldredwagon at verizon.net> 
  To: Forest Grove local interests list<mailto:grovenet at rdrop.com> 
  Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:10 PM
  Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Yellow Left Arrow


  Thanks for the video!  One of the first times I came across this, the yellow 
  light was flashing and I waited at the intersection in the left turn lane. 
  Then it stopped flashing and I figured I could then go cautiously, so I 
  approached the intersection and started to turn, when it suddenly turned 
  red!  I thought the flashing yellow meant that it would turn red shortly, 
  but it's exactly the opposite, it's solid yellow, just before it turns red. 
  At least I know better now.

  It is nice to be able to turn, but I wonder about the safety factor.  I 
  suppose maybe I'm the only one confused and will probably get used to the 
  procedure.  Is there any record of other cities experience with these yellow 
  turn arrows?  Is there any impact to safety?

  Just wondering,
  Marian

  --------------------------------------------------
  From: "b Smith" <smithsmith at gmail.com<mailto:smithsmith at gmail.com>>
  Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 8:26 PM
  To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com<mailto:grovenet at rdrop.com>>
  Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Yellow Left Arrow

  > Here is the definitive yellow arrow info:
  > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9U0LJ1r9Us<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9U0LJ1r9Us>
  >
  > I was behind someone today who just pulled out in the middle of the
  > intersection on the flashing yellow arrow and used it as a red-light turn.
  >
  > Enjoy!
  > Barb
  >
  > On Sat, Aug 7, 2010 at 8:13 PM, Debra Bratland 
  > <debbratland at gmail.com>wrote<mailto:debbratland at gmail.com%3Ewrote>:
  >
  >> I went to Hillsboro this week for the first time in awhile, and I noticed
  >> that Hillsboro has changed their traffic signals - many now have a yellow
  >> left-turn arrow.
  >>
  >> As a driver, I really like this idea.  It means I don't have to idle my 
  >> car
  >> for several minutes waiting for a green arrow when no one is coming at me
  >> in
  >> the other direction (as is necessary at the Fred Meyer entrance!).  I can
  >> just clear my way and go!
  >>
  >> David - you know a lot about traffic flow and traffic controls.  I'm
  >> curious
  >> as to your take on yellow left-turn arrows.  Am I missing something, or 
  >> is
  >> should these yellow left-turn arrows be used at more intersections?
  >>
  >> I welcome others' comments too, of course!
  >>
  >> Deb Bratland
  >> _______________________________________________
  >> GroveNet mailing list
  >> GroveNet at rdrop.com<mailto:GroveNet at rdrop.com>
  >> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet<http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet>
  >>
  > _______________________________________________
  > GroveNet mailing list
  > GroveNet at rdrop.com<mailto:GroveNet at rdrop.com>
  > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet<http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet> 


  _______________________________________________
  GroveNet mailing list
  GroveNet at rdrop.com<mailto:GroveNet at rdrop.com>
  http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet<http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet>

From khourym at verizon.net  Wed Aug 11 08:38:28 2010
From: khourym at verizon.net (Martha Khoury)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 08:38:28 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Wells Fargo Beaverton Career Fair is Aug. 14
References: <1715062023.1457475.1281540391688.JavaMail.root@sz0112a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <AC32080C-D793-4B91-933F-47A115886188@verizon.net>

FYI - Martha K.

>
>
> Beaverton career fair is Aug. 14
> A Message from Wells Fargo Card Services and Consumer Lending, Wells  
> Fargo Customer Connection and Home Equity Recruiting
>
> Wells Fargo Card Services and Consumer Lending (CSCL), Wells Fargo  
> Customer Connection (WFCC) and Home Equity Recruiting will host a  
> career fair in Beaverton on Saturday, August 14, to find qualified  
> candidates for full-time collections supervisor, collector, phone  
> banker and loan adjustor specialist positions. Spread the word to  
> your friends and family.
>
> Event: Beaverton Career Fair
> Date: Saturday, August 14, 2010
> Time: 9 a.m. to 1 p.m.
> Location: Barnhart Center, 18700 NW Walker Rd., Beaverton, OR 97006  
> (2nd floor Caf?). Participants may park in the South lot, and enter  
> through the South (2nd floor) entrance.
>
> Note: Interviews will be completed onsite; interested candidates  
> will need to bring multiple copies of their resumes for review.
>
> Available Positions
> Currently, we are seeking motivated team members for the following  
> positions:
> Overdraft Collections Representative 1 (Requisition #3399399): 6+  
> months experience in a direct customer contact, service, collections  
> or sales environment
> Overdraft Collections Bilingual Representative 1 (Requisition  
> #3394543): Bilingual Spanish/English, 6 months to 1 year of customer  
> service and/or collections/sales experience
> Phone Banker 1 (Requisition #3395852): 6 months sales and customer  
> service experience
> Phone Banker 1 (Requisition #3395818): 6 months sales and customer  
> service experience
> Phone Banker 1 Bilingual Spanish (Requisition #3395447): 6 months  
> sales and customer service experience
> Home Equity Collections Supervisor Level 1 (Requisition #3384964):  
> 3+ years experience in a direct customer contact, service, or sales  
> environment, to include 2+ years collections experience.
> Home Equity Collections Supervisor Level 2 (Requisition #3359691):  
> 4+ years experience in a direct customer contact, service, or sales  
> environment, to include 2+ years collections experience, and 1+  
> years experience in a supervisory role.
> Home Equity Collector 3  (Requisition #3395610): 3+ years of  
> experience in a direct customer contact, service, collections or  
> sales environment and excellent phone skills
> Home Equity Loan Adjustor Specialist (Requisition #3393816): 2+  
> years experience in a direct customer contact financial services  
> position, such as: late stage collections, loan workout or real  
> estate sales environment
>


From edavie at verizon.net  Wed Aug 11 11:23:38 2010
From: edavie at verizon.net (Ed Davie)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 11:23:38 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Wells Fargo Beaverton Career Fair is Aug. 14
In-Reply-To: <AC32080C-D793-4B91-933F-47A115886188@verizon.net>
References: <1715062023.1457475.1281540391688.JavaMail.root@sz0112a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<AC32080C-D793-4B91-933F-47A115886188@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <149B713C8EBE4E0BBA6EAF361F37AB85@EdDaviePC>

Is that so they can distribute their latest fine for over charging people for overdrafts?

Ed




From: Martha Khoury 
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 8:38 AM
To: Forest Grove local interests list 
Subject: [Grovenet] Wells Fargo Beaverton Career Fair is Aug. 14


FYI - Martha K.

>
>
> Beaverton career fair is Aug. 14
> A Message from Wells Fargo Card Services and Consumer Lending, Wells  
> Fargo Customer Connection and Home Equity Recruiting
>
> Wells Fargo Card Services and Consumer Lending (CSCL), Wells Fargo  
> Customer Connection (WFCC) and Home Equity Recruiting will host a  
> career fair in Beaverton on Saturday, August 14, to find qualified  
> candidates for full-time collections supervisor, collector, phone  
> banker and loan adjustor specialist positions. Spread the word to  
> your friends and family.
>
> Event: Beaverton Career Fair
> Date: Saturday, August 14, 2010
> Time: 9 a.m. to 1 p.m.
> Location: Barnhart Center, 18700 NW Walker Rd., Beaverton, OR 97006  
> (2nd floor Caf?). Participants may park in the South lot, and enter  
> through the South (2nd floor) entrance.
>
> Note: Interviews will be completed onsite; interested candidates  
> will need to bring multiple copies of their resumes for review.
>
> Available Positions
> Currently, we are seeking motivated team members for the following  
> positions:
> Overdraft Collections Representative 1 (Requisition #3399399): 6+  
> months experience in a direct customer contact, service, collections  
> or sales environment
> Overdraft Collections Bilingual Representative 1 (Requisition  
> #3394543): Bilingual Spanish/English, 6 months to 1 year of customer  
> service and/or collections/sales experience
> Phone Banker 1 (Requisition #3395852): 6 months sales and customer  
> service experience
> Phone Banker 1 (Requisition #3395818): 6 months sales and customer  
> service experience
> Phone Banker 1 Bilingual Spanish (Requisition #3395447): 6 months  
> sales and customer service experience
> Home Equity Collections Supervisor Level 1 (Requisition #3384964):  
> 3+ years experience in a direct customer contact, service, or sales  
> environment, to include 2+ years collections experience.
> Home Equity Collections Supervisor Level 2 (Requisition #3359691):  
> 4+ years experience in a direct customer contact, service, or sales  
> environment, to include 2+ years collections experience, and 1+  
> years experience in a supervisory role.
> Home Equity Collector 3  (Requisition #3395610): 3+ years of  
> experience in a direct customer contact, service, collections or  
> sales environment and excellent phone skills
> Home Equity Loan Adjustor Specialist (Requisition #3393816): 2+  
> years experience in a direct customer contact financial services  
> position, such as: late stage collections, loan workout or real  
> estate sales environment
>

_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
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From NoSpam03 at comcast.net  Wed Aug 11 17:29:24 2010
From: NoSpam03 at comcast.net (Steven)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 17:29:24 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Car Talk
Message-ID: <006c01cb39b5$6a9b5660$3fd20320$@net>

So who is the "Jeff" that called Car Talk Saturday from Forest Grove? My tip
is to have your son drive round Hagg lake. Wonderful drive, not much traffic
at all.


From debbratland at gmail.com  Wed Aug 11 17:46:01 2010
From: debbratland at gmail.com (Debra Bratland)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 17:46:01 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Car Talk
In-Reply-To: <006c01cb39b5$6a9b5660$3fd20320$@net>
References: <006c01cb39b5$6a9b5660$3fd20320$@net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikUowSnNSMwYst3114K6B9grvukfpyePhoL79C8@mail.gmail.com>

What was the question?

Deb Bratland

On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 5:29 PM, Steven <NoSpam03 at comcast.net> wrote:

> So who is the "Jeff" that called Car Talk Saturday from Forest Grove? My
> tip
> is to have your son drive round Hagg lake. Wonderful drive, not much
> traffic
> at all.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>

From NoSpam03 at comcast.net  Wed Aug 11 17:59:29 2010
From: NoSpam03 at comcast.net (Steven)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 17:59:29 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Car Talk
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikUowSnNSMwYst3114K6B9grvukfpyePhoL79C8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <006c01cb39b5$6a9b5660$3fd20320$@net>
	<AANLkTikUowSnNSMwYst3114K6B9grvukfpyePhoL79C8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001001cb39b9$9e8217d0$db864770$@net>

Here is the podcast
http://podcastdownload.npr.org/anon.npr-podcasts/podcast/510208/129051732/np
r_129051732.mp3
Basically, his 18 year old son doesn't like to drive. The caller failed to
get in that FG has the tallest barber pole and Pacific University's Oldest
Building west of the Mississippi.

And speaking of jokesters. Deb, you ever consider starting up a day care?
You have the name for it.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
> Behalf Of Debra Bratland
> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 5:46 PM
> To: Forest Grove local interests list
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Car Talk
> 
> What was the question?
> 
> Deb Bratland
> 
> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 5:29 PM, Steven <NoSpam03 at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> > So who is the "Jeff" that called Car Talk Saturday from Forest Grove?
> My
> > tip
> > is to have your son drive round Hagg lake. Wonderful drive, not much
> > traffic
> > at all.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GroveNet mailing list
> > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From ocollaugh at comcast.net  Wed Aug 11 18:13:50 2010
From: ocollaugh at comcast.net (donkelly)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 18:13:50 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Subject: [Grovenet] Car Talk
References: <006c01cb39b5$6a9b5660$3fd20320$@net>
	<AANLkTikUowSnNSMwYst3114K6B9grvukfpyePhoL79C8@mail.gmail.com>
	<001001cb39b9$9e8217d0$db864770$@net>
Message-ID: <4C634ACE.000004.03924@DON-B2514E06367>

 
Who is on first base.

What is on second base.

The name of the third baseman is___________? 
 
 
 
-------Original Message-------
 
From: Steven
Date: 08/11/10 17:59:44
To: 'Forest Grove local interests list'
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Car Talk
 
Here is the podcast
http://podcastdownload.npr.org/anon.npr-podcasts/podcast/510208/129051732/np
r_129051732.mp3
Basically, his 18 year old son doesn't like to drive. The caller failed to
get in that FG has the tallest barber pole and Pacific University's Oldest
Building west of the Mississippi.
 
And speaking of jokesters. Deb, you ever consider starting up a day care?
You have the name for it.
 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
> Behalf Of Debra Bratland
> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 5:46 PM
> To: Forest Grove local interests list
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Car Talk
>
> What was the question?
>
> Deb Bratland
>
> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 5:29 PM, Steven <NoSpam03 at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > So who is the "Jeff" that called Car Talk Saturday from Forest Grove?
> My
> > tip
> > is to have your son drive round Hagg lake. Wonderful drive, not much
> > traffic
> > at all.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GroveNet mailing list
> > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
 
 
_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
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From allnutt at verizon.net  Wed Aug 11 18:53:05 2010
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 18:53:05 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Car Talk
In-Reply-To: <006c01cb39b5$6a9b5660$3fd20320$@net>
References: <006c01cb39b5$6a9b5660$3fd20320$@net>
Message-ID: <A64D67D9-C4F7-43C3-A0DF-D97B627337D3@verizon.net>

You  could search the newspapers for names of young men who have  
earned their eagle scout badge in the last few years. The parents  
names are usually listed and then if you find any with a parent named  
Jeff you might have the answer to your question.


On Aug 11, 2010, at 5:29 PM, Steven wrote:

> So who is the "Jeff" that called Car Talk Saturday from Forest  
> Grove? My tip
> is to have your son drive round Hagg lake. Wonderful drive, not  
> much traffic
> at all.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From debbratland at gmail.com  Wed Aug 11 20:39:56 2010
From: debbratland at gmail.com (Debra Bratland)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 20:39:56 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Car Talk
In-Reply-To: <001001cb39b9$9e8217d0$db864770$@net>
References: <006c01cb39b5$6a9b5660$3fd20320$@net>
	<AANLkTikUowSnNSMwYst3114K6B9grvukfpyePhoL79C8@mail.gmail.com>
	<001001cb39b9$9e8217d0$db864770$@net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikcWJF_tk5ugTqpYv-hH2oS8eF5AFDKjC271qjY@mail.gmail.com>

No one's ever made that joke about my name.  Good one!

On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 5:59 PM, Steven <NoSpam03 at comcast.net> wrote:

> Here is the podcast
>
> http://podcastdownload.npr.org/anon.npr-podcasts/podcast/510208/129051732/np
> r_129051732.mp3
> Basically, his 18 year old son doesn't like to drive. The caller failed to
> get in that FG has the tallest barber pole and Pacific University's Oldest
> Building west of the Mississippi.
>
> And speaking of jokesters. Deb, you ever consider starting up a day care?
> You have the name for it.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
> > Behalf Of Debra Bratland
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 5:46 PM
> > To: Forest Grove local interests list
> > Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Car Talk
> >
> > What was the question?
> >
> > Deb Bratland
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 5:29 PM, Steven <NoSpam03 at comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> > > So who is the "Jeff" that called Car Talk Saturday from Forest Grove?
> > My
> > > tip
> > > is to have your son drive round Hagg lake. Wonderful drive, not much
> > > traffic
> > > at all.
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GroveNet mailing list
> > > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GroveNet mailing list
> > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>

From jo.david at verizon.net  Wed Aug 11 23:14:49 2010
From: jo.david at verizon.net (David Morelli)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 23:14:49 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Car Talk
In-Reply-To: <001001cb39b9$9e8217d0$db864770$@net>
References: <006c01cb39b5$6a9b5660$3fd20320$@net>
	<AANLkTikUowSnNSMwYst3114K6B9grvukfpyePhoL79C8@mail.gmail.com>
	<001001cb39b9$9e8217d0$db864770$@net>
Message-ID: <214E315E-A0F9-4520-B261-938CF12B1143@verizon.net>

Thanks for the post, I missed the program this week.

David

On Aug 11, 2010, at 5:59 PM, Steven wrote:

> Here is the podcast
> http://podcastdownload.npr.org/anon.npr-podcasts/podcast/510208/129051732/np
> r_129051732.mp3
> Basically, his 18 year old son doesn't like to drive. The caller failed to
> get in that FG has the tallest barber pole and Pacific University's Oldest
> Building west of the Mississippi.



From jo.david at verizon.net  Wed Aug 11 23:15:17 2010
From: jo.david at verizon.net (David Morelli)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 23:15:17 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Car Talk
In-Reply-To: <4C634ACE.000004.03924@DON-B2514E06367>
References: <006c01cb39b5$6a9b5660$3fd20320$@net>
	<AANLkTikUowSnNSMwYst3114K6B9grvukfpyePhoL79C8@mail.gmail.com>
	<001001cb39b9$9e8217d0$db864770$@net>
	<4C634ACE.000004.03924@DON-B2514E06367>
Message-ID: <7A273F4F-1F5B-4A12-A354-8600FF0B2FBC@verizon.net>

I don't know?

David

On Aug 11, 2010, at 6:13 PM, donkelly wrote:

> 
> 
> Who is on first base.
> 
> 
> 
> What is on second base.
> 
> 
> 
> The name of the third baseman is___________? 


From jo.david at verizon.net  Wed Aug 11 23:16:22 2010
From: jo.david at verizon.net (David Morelli)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 23:16:22 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Car Talk
In-Reply-To: <006c01cb39b5$6a9b5660$3fd20320$@net>
References: <006c01cb39b5$6a9b5660$3fd20320$@net>
Message-ID: <8216AC8D-B263-4A1B-B39B-E9D4D99E5931@verizon.net>

We just had a Jeff who finished his Eagle Scout project at the A.T. Smith house.  With luck we will get the information collected in time for the paper's deadline.

David

On Aug 11, 2010, at 5:29 PM, Steven wrote:

> So who is the "Jeff" that called Car Talk Saturday from Forest Grove? My tip
> is to have your son drive round Hagg lake. Wonderful drive, not much traffic
> at all.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet




From isis23ra at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 12 10:23:29 2010
From: isis23ra at yahoo.com (Alana Graham)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 10:23:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] PFLAG invites you to party 08/17/2010
Message-ID: <148590.39299.qm@web55606.mail.re4.yahoo.com>







Join PFLAG (Parents, Family and Friends of Lesbian and Gays) at our annual summer potluck picnic on Tuesday, 08/17/2010 at 7 PM at the UUCCWC (Unitarian Universalist Church of Washington County), 22785 NW Birch St., Hillsboro near Orenco Station. (www.uuccwc.org for directions)
?
Bring a potluck dish and a blanket or lawn chair.
?
Come for good food, good friends, good conversation?and good news!
?
Hope to see you there!
?
Alana
?
(PFLAG Washington County meets on the 3rd Tuesday of the month,? 7 - 9 pm? in even numbered months (Aug. Oct. Dec.)?at UUCCWC, 22785 NW Birch St. Hillsboro, OR?and?on odd-numbered months (Sept., Nov.) at Forest Grove United Church of Christ, 2032 College Way, Forest Grove, OR.
?
To find out more about PFLAG:? http://community.pflag.org/Page.aspx?pid=194&srcid=-2

From nuzriter at aol.com  Thu Aug 12 16:02:56 2010
From: nuzriter at aol.com (nuzriter at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 19:02:56 -0400
Subject: [Grovenet] Owlets
Message-ID: <8CD0889A3040362-1178-2671@webmail-m044.sysops.aol.com>


For those of you who like to watch wildlife up close and personal, three owl chicks hatched, one to go, in CA.

http://www.sportsmansparadiseonline.com/Live_Owl_Nest_Box_Cam.html



Linda "I love nature" Saari

From ocollaugh at comcast.net  Thu Aug 12 17:19:58 2010
From: ocollaugh at comcast.net (donkelly)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 00:19:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Grovenet] Owlets
In-Reply-To: <8CD0889A3040362-1178-2671@webmail-m044.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <1941709752.1325782.1281658798553.JavaMail.root@sz0024a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

That's a very good feel good. Getting the cam into the box is easy, but how did the get the owl in the box?

don

----- Original Message -----
From: nuzriter at aol.com
To: grovenet at rdrop.com
Sent: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 23:02:56 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Grovenet] Owlets


For those of you who like to watch wildlife up close and personal, three owl chicks hatched, one to go, in CA.

http://www.sportsmansparadiseonline.com/Live_Owl_Nest_Box_Cam.html



Linda "I love nature" Saari
_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From nuzriter at aol.com  Thu Aug 12 17:37:28 2010
From: nuzriter at aol.com (nuzriter at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 20:37:28 -0400
Subject: [Grovenet] Owlets
In-Reply-To: <1941709752.1325782.1281658798553.JavaMail.root@sz0024a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <8CD0896D7C8C242-1178-3C9F@webmail-m044.sysops.aol.com>

Not sure how the owl gets in/out. There are two, Molly and McGhee, plus the babies. This apparently is the second year for the nursery in this guy's yard in CA.


Linda 





-----Original Message-----
From: donkelly <ocollaugh at comcast.net>
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Thu, Aug 12, 2010 5:19 pm
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Owlets


That's a very good feel good. Getting the cam into the box is easy, but how did 
he get the owl in the box?
don
----- Original Message -----
rom: nuzriter at aol.com
o: grovenet at rdrop.com
ent: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 23:02:56 -0000 (UTC)
ubject: [Grovenet] Owlets

or those of you who like to watch wildlife up close and personal, three owl 
hicks hatched, one to go, in CA.
http://www.sportsmansparadiseonline.com/Live_Owl_Nest_Box_Cam.html

Linda "I love nature" Saari
______________________________________________
roveNet mailing list
roveNet at rdrop.com
ttp://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

______________________________________________
roveNet mailing list
roveNet at rdrop.com
ttp://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From obrzl at verizon.net  Thu Aug 12 23:16:05 2010
From: obrzl at verizon.net (obrzl at verizon.net)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 01:16:05 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] footbridge
Message-ID: <1753031632.160950.1281680165762.JavaMail.root@vznit170062>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100813/da9af5e9/attachment.html 

From allnutt at verizon.net  Thu Aug 12 23:22:55 2010
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 23:22:55 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] footbridge
In-Reply-To: <1753031632.160950.1281680165762.JavaMail.root@vznit170062>
References: <1753031632.160950.1281680165762.JavaMail.root@vznit170062>
Message-ID: <6C5CDA4C-AFFB-4001-A035-26CBE7E298C1@verizon.net>

We'll have to check it out. Thanks for the update.

Katie

On Aug 12, 2010, at 11:16 PM, obrzl at verizon.net wrote:

> The new bike and hiking path bridge was put over Gales Cr. today  
> and this evening my wife and I walked from 16th and A all the way  
> to the HWY 47 bike path, without resorting to the "B" St. bridge.   
> The footbridge isn't 'open' yet and one has to climb on some rebar  
> to get on and off it, but other than that it's great!  (There'll  
> probably be a "keep off" sign soon because the project isn't  
> finished.  Liability.)
>   The south section of the path is a very nice walk in the country,  
> and it's amazing how much nicer it is to be away from the streets.   
> Hopefully someday there will be a network of trails further south.
> Mark
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From Leslie.Neyman at pobox.com  Fri Aug 13 08:03:08 2010
From: Leslie.Neyman at pobox.com (Leslie.Neyman)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 08:03:08 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] FAX in Forest Grove?
In-Reply-To: <1753031632.160950.1281680165762.JavaMail.root@vznit170062>
References: <1753031632.160950.1281680165762.JavaMail.root@vznit170062>
Message-ID: <003201cb3af8$a47e9290$ed7bb7b0$@Neyman@pobox.com>

Does anyone know if there is fax service in FG? With the closing of Horton?s and UPS I don?t know of any service other than FedEx in Cornelius. Is there anything closer?

 

Thank you,

 

Leslie


From khourym at verizon.net  Fri Aug 13 08:09:32 2010
From: khourym at verizon.net (Martha Khoury)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 08:09:32 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] FAX in Forest Grove?
In-Reply-To: <003201cb3af8$a47e9290$ed7bb7b0$@Neyman@pobox.com>
References: <1753031632.160950.1281680165762.JavaMail.root@vznit170062>
	<003201cb3af8$a47e9290$ed7bb7b0$@Neyman@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <11244F2D-61C9-4C70-8A20-CAC3B0227B84@verizon.net>

Fred Meyer.


On Aug 13, 2010, at 8:03 AM, Leslie.Neyman wrote:

> Does anyone know if there is fax service in FG? With the closing of  
> Horton?s and UPS I don?t know of any service other than FedEx in  
> Cornelius. Is there anything closer?
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
>
>
> Leslie
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet




From steelem at pacificu.edu  Fri Aug 13 08:11:21 2010
From: steelem at pacificu.edu (Steele, Mike)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 08:11:21 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] FAX in Forest Grove?
Message-ID: <8D94A946E17E9941AE94FC3AE11CAB7E03E052A914@everest.ad.pacificu.edu>

Leslie.. I don't really know but you might try the FG city library or the PU library.

Good luck!

Mike


-----Original Message-----
From: Leslie.Neyman <Leslie.Neyman at pobox.com>
Sent: August 13, 2010 8:06 AM
To: 'Forest Grove local interests list' <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Subject: [Grovenet] FAX in Forest Grove?


Does anyone know if there is fax service in FG? With the closing of Horton?s and UPS I don?t know of any service other than FedEx in Cornelius. Is there anything closer?



Thank you,



Leslie

_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From khourym at verizon.net  Fri Aug 13 08:18:50 2010
From: khourym at verizon.net (Martha Khoury)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 08:18:50 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Fwd: Fall Line-Up - Salmon, Wine and Winegrapes
References: <17bd212c97-khourym=verizon.net@mail.vresp.com>
Message-ID: <84C2CC9E-20B9-4EEF-874B-AF9DE6E8D4EC@verizon.net>

FYI -- This is where I have been getting fresh salmon lately.
I know many of you have expressed interest.

Helvetia Winery -- yup, it's in Helvetia which is between here and  
Portland.

Sign up for their emails and you will be notified when and how to  
order/pick up.
(The wine's not bad either.)

Happy eating!
--Martha K.


Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Helvetia Winery" <Helvetia_Winery at mail.vresp.com>
> Date: August 12, 2010 11:47:39 AM PDT
> To: khourym at verizon.net
> Subject: Fall Line-Up - Salmon, Wine and Winegrapes
> Reply-To: "Helvetia Winery" <reply-17bd212c97-68f5f9f2b1-b5c2 at u.cts.vresp.com 
> >
>
>
> Hello Martha,
>
> We've heard from many of our customers whose friends and relatives  
> are visiting Oregon in August and would like to come by the winery  
> on a weekday for tastings and tours.  That's why we are opening on  
> Thursday and Friday afternoons until the end of August.  Our  
> neighbor, Donna Prock, will be serving from 1:00 until 5:00,  
> Thursday and Friday, so please stop by with a picnic, maybe a  
> takeout from Helvetia Tavern, and enjoy some time off.
>
> The treaty fall salmon commercial season starts in two weeks so stay  
> tuned for Kris Sampson and Bobby Begay here on alternate Saturdays  
> from late August through October.  Looks like Saturday, August 28th  
> will be their first chance to present fresh salmon to our customers  
> during the 2010 fall chinook and steelhead run.
>
> Did you visit The Bite of Oregon?  If you did, here may be a few  
> familiar scenes.  If you didn't, here are some reasons to go next  
> year.  Check out the flavor of the Bite, a four-minute video  
> recorded last Sunday.
>
> We hope to see you soon for fine wine and smoked salmon. This  
> weekend, we will be continuing our reduced price of $10 for our 2007  
> chardonnay.  Bring a picnic, kids, friendly dogs, aunts, uncles,  
> grandpa and grandma. While you're at it, visit some of Helvetia's  
> other landmarks.  For more information about what our community has  
> to offer, visit the winery website.
>
>
> Cheers!
>
>
>
> The Helvetia Team
>
>
>
>
> If you no longer wish to receive these emails, please reply to this  
> message with "Unsubscribe" in the subject line or simply click on  
> the following link: Unsubscribe
>
> Click here to forward this email to a friend
>
> Helvetia Winery
> 22485 NW Yungen
> Hillsboro, Oregon 97124
> Read the VerticalResponse marketing policy.
>
>
>


From jimzzz42 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 13 08:56:14 2010
From: jimzzz42 at gmail.com (Jim Zaleski)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 08:56:14 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] FAX in Forest Grove?
In-Reply-To: <1290527357014162461@unknownmsgid>
References: <1753031632.160950.1281680165762.JavaMail.root@vznit170062>
	<1290527357014162461@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin-nJc1ypDCCP9S+6tkKQ9e7gJLEr+gjodxPHOp@mail.gmail.com>

Safeway has fax service at the customer service desk.

jimz

On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 8:03 AM, Leslie.Neyman <Leslie.Neyman at pobox.com>wrote:

> Does anyone know if there is fax service in FG? With the closing of
> Horton?s and UPS I don?t know of any service other than FedEx in Cornelius.
> Is there anything closer?
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
>
>
> Leslie
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>

From edavie at verizon.net  Fri Aug 13 13:41:14 2010
From: edavie at verizon.net (Ed Davie)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 13:41:14 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Fw: Limbaugh: "If a terrorist had done to the oil
 industry in the Gulf what Obama" did, even Holder would indict him
Message-ID: <90DDDB845E5B4C3BA8E9F68DA12827CE@EdDaviePC>

Media Matters for AmericaThought this might interest some of you. 
To subscribe, http://mediamatters.org/users/account_preferences
Ed


From: Media Matters for America 
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 1:29 PM
To: edavie at verizon.net 
Subject: Limbaugh: "If a terrorist had done to the oil industry in the Gulf what Obama" did, even Holder would indict him


To UNSUBSCRIBE from Media Matters for America emails, click here: 
http://mediamatters.org/users/unsubscribe?u=944ef934f73fbdc78ce8436fb5216b40&rid=51737414.
     
            Limbaugh: "If a terrorist had done to the oil industry in the Gulf what Obama" did, even Holder would indict him
            http://mediamatters.org/items/201008130035

            By Mike Burns

            Rush Limbaugh opened today's show by repeatedly calling the president "Barack Hoover Obama," a continuation of his policy from the day before. After mentioning that Obama will host an Iftar dinner in commemoration of Ramadan at the White House tonight, Rush turned his attention to the Gulf oil spill. He contended that the oil spill crisis was manufactured by the Obama administration and other "crisis monger[s]" to shut down the oil industry. In arguing that jobs in the Gulf region were lost as a result of the president's policies, Rush claimed, "If a terrorist had done to the oil industry in the Gulf what Obama has done, even Eric Holder would bring him up on charges."

            Rush continued discussing the oil spill and offshore drilling during the second hour of his show, and even introduced a new catchphrase: "Obama lied, the oil business died." Rush then turned to the phones, and in response to a caller asserted that "Barack Obama equals politics of grievance." Rush also called Pelosi and Obama "kooks" and asserted that Reid is "not even stable." He also attacked the Obama administration as a "coterie of 1960s hippies and neo-communists." 

            In the final hour of the show, Rush said that none of Obama's policies is going to improve the economy. He also said that if Obama doesn't change his policies, the economy is going to get worse and that Democrats are obsessed with power.

            Here are some highlights from today's show:

            Limbaugh: Even well-paid person faces foreclosure "in Barack Hoover Obama's America" 

            Limbaugh: "There was no reason for a panic" in the Gulf, but "a crisis is too great a thing to waste" 

            Limbaugh: "If a terrorist had done to the oil industry in the Gulf what Obama" did, even Holder would indict him

            Limbaugh: Obama and Pelosi are "kooks"; Reid is "not even stable"

            Limbaugh: "It's the Democrats that try to keep black people out of political powerful positions, it ain't us"
           
     
      You can help support our work; become a volunteer media monitor, or donate to Media Matters for America.
     
      This mail was sent by Media Matters for America to 'edavie at verizon.net'. 
      To change your email subscription preferences, visit http://mediamatters.org/users/account_preferences
     

 

From Leslie.Neyman at pobox.com  Fri Aug 13 15:10:55 2010
From: Leslie.Neyman at pobox.com (Leslie.Neyman)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 15:10:55 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] FAX in Forest Grove?
In-Reply-To: <8D94A946E17E9941AE94FC3AE11CAB7E03E052A914@everest.ad.pacificu.edu>
References: <8D94A946E17E9941AE94FC3AE11CAB7E03E052A914@everest.ad.pacificu.edu>
Message-ID: <005e01cb3b34$676a0290$363e07b0$@Neyman@pobox.com>


Thank you, Grovenetters! Safeway customer service desk is the closest fax service now.

Thanks again,

Leslie





From ejbaeza at mac.com  Fri Aug 13 15:37:16 2010
From: ejbaeza at mac.com (Edward Baeza)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 15:37:16 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Forest Grove Uncorked Wine & Food Festival
In-Reply-To: <1753031632.160950.1281680165762.JavaMail.root@vznit170062>
References: <1753031632.160950.1281680165762.JavaMail.root@vznit170062>
Message-ID: <71DFEA44-5E72-4CBF-A656-B99E33147C68@mac.com>


Dear Friends,
Just wanted to let all of know that The City Club of Forest Grove is  
holding its 2nd annual Wine, micro-brew and food festival next  
Saturday, August 21st from 4:00 PM to 9:00 PM On Main Street in  
downtown Forest Grove.  Admission is only $10.00 and the 1st 800 paid  
admissions will receive a free Uncorked wine glass.  We have at least  
21 wineries and 1 micro-brewery and at least 11 restaurants  
participating.

We'll have free live music by The Feppos Brothers and The Andy  
Harrison Band.  Main Street Forest Grove will be closed off and  
everyone will be outside to serve you.  Advance ticket can be  
purchased at The Friendly Vine and at Joe's Ice Cream Shop and Deli.   
Both are on opposite corners of Pacific Avenue and Main Street.   
Tickets can also be purchased on-line at www.fgcityclub.com.  Just  
click on the Uncorked tab on the Home page.  I hope to see you all  
there and meet some of my new friends on GroveNet in person.

Thanks for your time and attention and for allowing me to encourage  
you all to support our local community events, downtown businesses  
and this year's event charity, The Forest Grove Volunteer  
Firefighters Association.  Feel free to respond to this e-mail with  
any questions that you may have.

All the best,

E. J. Baeza
Midlife Crisis Studios
Forest Grove, Oregon

President
The City Club of Forest Grove

> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From edavie at verizon.net  Sat Aug 14 09:33:13 2010
From: edavie at verizon.net (Ed Davie)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 09:33:13 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Fw: Media Matters Daily Summary
Message-ID: <47DF09C0397A4D90ACBC9823578490D9@EdDaviePC>

Media Matters for America


From: Media Matters for America 
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 8:34 PM
To: edavie at verizon.net 
Subject: Media Matters Daily Summary


To UNSUBSCRIBE from Media Matters for America emails, click here: 
http://mediamatters.org/users/unsubscribe?u=944ef934f73fbdc78ce8436fb5216b40&rid=51923701.
     
            Here are today's news items from Media Matters for America, click on the title or 'read more' to read the entirety of each story.

            Dr. Laura Schlessinger's racial rant latest in history of incendiary remarks
            Dr. Laura Schlessinger has apologized after launching into a racially charged rant, during which Schlessinger, in her own words, "articulated the 'n' word all the way out -- more than one time." Schlessinger's rant followed her attacks on homosexuality as "deviant" and "dysfunctional behavior," for which she also apologized. Read More

            Hannity falsely claims Imam Rauf wants to "shred our Constitution"
            Sean Hannity falsely claimed that Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf wants to "shred our Constitution" and replace it with Sharia law. In fact, Rauf has said that the American political system, including the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, is Sharia compliant. Hannity also took Rauf's writings out of context to paint him as "anything but moderate." Read More

            Right-wing media attack program Bush admin felt was useful in fighting terrorism
            In recent days, right-wing media have attacked Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf's upcoming State Department trip to the Middle East to "discuss Muslim life in America and religious tolerance." However, Rauf began participating in the outreach program during the Bush administration, which considered this kind of outreach as useful "[i]n the struggle against violent extremists."
            Read More

            REPORT: Fox provides megaphone to NYC mosque opponents
            A Media Matters for America review of Fox News' evening coverage of the planned building of an Islamic cultural center near Ground Zero found that, since May, the shows have hosted at least 47 guests to discuss the project, nearly 75 percent of whom opposed the center. Just nine of the guests who appeared on the evening programs supported the building, and one guest remained neutral. Read More

            Fox promotes false claim that 14th Amendment was not meant to apply to children of immigrants
            Fox has repeatedly aired an Arizona State Senator Russell Pearce's (R) false claim that the 14th Amendment was "never" meant to apply to the children of "aliens, legal, or illegal." However, scholars, the Congressional Research Service, and the Supreme Court have concluded that the amendment applies to children born in the United States, regardless of their parents' immigration status.
            Read More

            Conservative media falsely warn of "racial quotas" in financial reform law
            Conservative media have falsely warned that a provision in the Wall Street regulatory reform law institutes racial quotas for hiring and used that claim to revisit the smear that lending to minorities caused the economic crisis. In fact, the law sets no racial or gender quotas for hiring or lending. Read More

            Conservative media invent controversy over Rauf's 9-11 comments
            The conservative media have repeatedly attacked Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf for his remark that "the United States' policies were an accessory" to the 9-11 attacks. However, Rauf's comments are not outside the mainstream; indeed, the former chairman and vice chairman of the 9/11 Commission have stated that U.S. "actions have contributed" to "a rising tide of radicalization and rage in the Muslim world." Read More

            The right-wing race-baiting revue: Schlessinger's rant is just the latest act
            Dr. Laura Schlessinger's racially charged rant, in which she "articulated the 'n' word all the way out -- more than one time," is only the latest in a year of public displays of racially loaded rhetoric by right-wing media figures. Read More
           
     
      You can help support our work; become a volunteer media monitor, or donate to Media Matters for America.
     
      This mail was sent by Media Matters for America to 'edavie at verizon.net'. 
      To change your email subscription preferences, visit http://mediamatters.org/users/account_preferences
     

 

From edavie at verizon.net  Sat Aug 14 09:38:41 2010
From: edavie at verizon.net (Ed Davie)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 09:38:41 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Fw: Media Matters: Glenn Beck, Holy Warrior
Message-ID: <7FCAD308ACFC49969125E66250BCCF11@EdDaviePC>

weekly-table


From: Media Matters for America 
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 10:37 PM
To: edavie at verizon.net 
Subject: Media Matters: Glenn Beck, Holy Warrior


     
     August 13, 2010  
     
      Media Matters: Glenn Beck, Holy Warrior

      Back in April, Glenn Beck informed his radio listeners that during his trip to the Vatican, an "individual" there told him that "what you're doing is wildly important" in the upcoming struggle against forces of "great darkness." 

      Earlier the same week, Beck explained that he was promoting "the plan that [God] would have me articulate, I think, to you," against "darkness." While notable on their own merits, Beck's comments were especially striking because they marked what was (at the time) the culmination of Beck's regular portrayal of himself as fighting on behalf of "good" against the forces of "evil" and "darkness." 

      Since then, Beck has made it abundantly clear that he does not use this sort of language metaphorically -- he quite literally believes he is fighting on the side of God against Satan. In the months since his trip to the Vatican, Beck has ramped up the frequency and intensity with which he frames the current political debate in our country in biblical, and sometimes apocalyptic, terms.

      For example, in recent months, Beck has:

        a.. Compared Barack Obama to Lucifer. 
        a.. Looked skyward on his TV show and said, "Lord, it's your turn, we've done everything we can" while comparing the current situation in our country to Stephen King's post-apocalyptic novel The Stand. In the same segment, Beck also told people they need to ask for forgiveness, and said that "we're in a dark, dark place" and "dark dudes" are "coming our way." He added, "Now, I'm hoping the guy with horns doesn't actually show up, but he could." 
        a.. Explained that we are fighting "the oldest battle that man has ever fought. It is the battle in the war in heaven. It is the battle that we fought in the Garden of Eden. Choice." Beck also compared Obama and his administration to the snake in the Garden of Eden because he "will make the choices for you." 
        a.. Hosted a panel of pastors and preachers that he billed as "people that need to start standing up." During the show, Beck plugged the "excellent" book by Rev. John Hagee, Can America Survive? 10 Prophetic Signs That We Are the Terminal Generation, which he apparently had just started reading. Hagee's book interprets biblical prophecy to argue that the world is fast approaching Armageddon and the second coming of Jesus Christ. Beck explicitly endorsed Hagee's theory by stating as fact that "a lot of the pieces that have never been here for the prophecy are here now." 
        a.. Repeatedly suggested that progressives and liberals are "enemies of God" and "enemies of Him," and declared that they "don't have [God] on their side." 
        a.. Told his listeners to "make no mistake: You are fighting a power far greater, far greater than any elected official. This has been the works for a very long time." He then warned that the "gates of Hell will open up." 
      This brings us to Beck's upcoming "Restoring Honor" rally, which is slated to take place in two weeks. Beck has repeatedly described the rally as historic and modestly declared that it "will be remembered in American history as the turning point." As he has explained it, Beck originally wanted to schedule the rally for September 12, but didn't want people to "work on the Sabbath," so he rescheduled it for August 28. When he later discovered that this date marked the 47th anniversary of Martin Luther King Jr.'s "I Have a Dream" speech, rather than chalking it up to coincidence, Beck claimed that it was "divine providence." 

      Just think about that for a second -- Beck is so convinced he is working on behalf of the forces of "good" that he believes God made sure the date of his self-aggrandizement festival coincided with the anniversary of a landmark speech by a civil rights icon.

      Beck's messianic religiosity took the next logical step this week, when he announced a new event scheduled on the eve of the 8-28 rally. Employing his characteristic humility, the event will be titled "Glenn Beck's Divine Destiny" and will feature "nationally-known figures from all faiths." Beck describes the evening as an "eye-opening" event "that will help heal your soul."

      While Beck regularly garners plenty of attention, his increasingly intense religiosity has flown mostly under the radar. If we're to take him at his word, then he sincerely believes that he is fighting on behalf of God against the forces of Satan -- or as Beck calls them, "progressives." If that isn't the case, then he's cynically using biblical fearmongering in order to continue to grow his brand and score political points.

      I'm not sure which is worse. Either way, it's deserving of more attention.

      Bottom of the anti-mosque barrel
      If conservatives had a reasonable case against the supposed "Ground Zero mosque," they wouldn't need to rely on blatant falsehoods to make their arguments. However, when you are working backward from the thesis "Muslims are all terrorists and terrorist sympathizers," then you are bound to make some leaps of logic in support of your "point."

      This week, conservative media figures focused much of their ire on Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf's upcoming State Department trip to the Middle East to "discuss Muslim life in America and religious tolerance." Several of the usual suspects complained that Rauf was going on a "taxpayer-funded fundraising jaunt" to finance his proposed Islamic cultural center. As we noted, the State Department has made explicit that fundraising of any kind is prohibited during the trip.

      Perhaps more importantly, conservatives' attacks on Rauf's trip amount to an accidental indictment of a program the Bush administration felt was useful in fighting terror. Rauf began participating in the outreach program during the Bush administration. Of course, people like unhinged right-wing blogger Pam Geller ignored such inconvenient facts when they were calling the trip "disturbing."

      Sean Hannity repeatedly took Rauf's writings out of context to paint him as "anything but moderate" and falsely claimed that Rauf wants to "shred our Constitution" and replace it with Sharia law. Glenn Beck joined Hannity in smearing Rauf by saying that Rauf "employs" an imam who blamed "the Jews" for 9-11. He doesn't.

      But the anti-mosque discourse bottomed out (hopefully), as it often does, with our friends at NewsBusters. This week, Mark Finkelstein uncovered a "chilling" fact about the Islamic community center as he discussed Geller's anti-mosque ads on New York buses -- which tastelessly depict the image of a plane hitting the World Trade Center on 9-11, falsely suggest that the mosque is opening on September 11, 2011, and add an imaginary star and crescent to the artist's rendering of the building. I'll let him explain his discovery:

        Have a look at the screencap below showing the mosque's proposed design [note that the anti-mosque group wasn't misrepresenting the design. See mosque architect's rendering here]. Sure looks a lot like the WTC towers themselves, doesn't it?  Hard to imagine that's a coincidence. A certain implicit triumphalism involved?

      Here's the "chilling" artist's rendering that Finkelstein linked to:



      I can think of no better encapsulation of both the ineptitude of NewsBusters and the ongoing desperation of conservative media figures struggling to find a not-overtly bigoted reason to oppose the Islamic center than parsing the "certain implicit triumphalism involved" in shaping it like a building.

      This weekly wrap-up was compiled by Media Matters' Ben Dimiero.

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From ocollaugh at comcast.net  Sat Aug 14 10:01:07 2010
From: ocollaugh at comcast.net (donkelly)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 17:01:07 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Grovenet] Fw: Media Matters: Glenn Beck, Holy Warrior
In-Reply-To: <7FCAD308ACFC49969125E66250BCCF11@EdDaviePC>
Message-ID: <834172951.1390029.1281805267691.JavaMail.root@sz0024a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

Ed, thank you. You are indeed looking and thinking outside the box.

I find extravagent, and without factual basis claims, all very disturbing, and it makes no matter to me who proposed them.

But they are correct that a dark cloud is headed our way.....said that for years, and we are not nailed to the ground, or tied to a post, to prevent us in any way from standing up for American principals, and the American way.

But that is all outside of our pleasant little sandbox here, where lots of solid news is not FG universally welcome.

Good day all. Obama is clearly, very clearly, not our friend.

donkelly



Original Message -----
From: Ed Davie <edavie at verizon.net>
To: Grovenet <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 16:38:41 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Grovenet] Fw: Media Matters: Glenn Beck, Holy Warrior

weekly-table


From: Media Matters for America 
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 10:37 PM
To: edavie at verizon.net 
Subject: Media Matters: Glenn Beck, Holy Warrior


     
     August 13, 2010  
     
     Media Matters: Glenn Beck, Holy Warrior

     Can America Survive? 10 Prophetic Signs That We Are the Terminal       
     I'm not sure which is worse. Either way, it's deserving of more attention.

      


From ocollaugh at comcast.net  Sat Aug 14 10:20:45 2010
From: ocollaugh at comcast.net (donkelly)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 17:20:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Grovenet] Fw: Media Matters Daily Summary
In-Reply-To: <47DF09C0397A4D90ACBC9823578490D9@EdDaviePC>
Message-ID: <1496304745.1390680.1281806445238.JavaMail.root@sz0024a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

His trip is paid for by American tax dollars......you and I, all of us pay for his trips abroad.

And he does favor Sharia in the totality of what he has over time eclectically stated.

don
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Davie <edavie at verizon.net>
To: Grovenet <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 16:33:13 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Grovenet] Fw: Media Matters Daily Summary

Media Matters for America


From: Media Matters for America 
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 8:34 PM
To: edavie at verizon.net 
Subject: Media Matters Daily Summary


To UNSUBSCRIBE from Media Matters for America emails, click here: 
http://mediamatters.org/users/unsubscribe?u=944ef934f73fbdc78ce8436fb5216b40&rid=51923701.
     
            Here are today's news items from Media Matters for America, click on the title or 'read more' to read the entirety of each story.

            Dr. Laura Schlessinger's racial rant latest in history of incendiary remarks
            Dr. Laura Schlessinger has apologized after launching into a racially charged rant, during which Schlessinger, in her own words, "articulated the 'n' word all the way out -- more than one time." Schlessinger's rant followed her attacks on homosexuality as "deviant" and "dysfunctional behavior," for which she also apologized. Read More

            Hannity falsely claims Imam Rauf wants to "shred our Constitution"
            Sean Hannity falsely claimed that Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf wants to "shred our Constitution" and replace it with Sharia law. In fact, Rauf has said that the American political system, including the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, is Sharia compliant. Hannity also took Rauf's writings out of context to paint him as "anything but moderate." Read More

            Right-wing media attack program Bush admin felt was useful in fighting terrorism
            In recent days, right-wing media have attacked Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf's upcoming State Department trip to the Middle East to "discuss Muslim life in America and religious tolerance." However, Rauf began participating in the outreach program during the Bush administration, which considered this kind of outreach as useful "[i]n the struggle against violent extremists."
            Read More

            REPORT: Fox provides megaphone to NYC mosque opponents
            A Media Matters for America review of Fox News' evening coverage of the planned building of an Islamic cultural center near Ground Zero found that, since May, the shows have hosted at least 47 guests to discuss the project, nearly 75 percent of whom opposed the center. Just nine of the guests who appeared on the evening programs supported the building, and one guest remained neutral. Read More

            Fox promotes false claim that 14th Amendment was not meant to apply to children of immigrants
            Fox has repeatedly aired an Arizona State Senator Russell Pearce's (R) false claim that the 14th Amendment was "never" meant to apply to the children of "aliens, legal, or illegal." However, scholars, the Congressional Research Service, and the Supreme Court have concluded that the amendment applies to children born in the United States, regardless of their parents' immigration status.
            Read More

            Conservative media falsely warn of "racial quotas" in financial reform law
            Conservative media have falsely warned that a provision in the Wall Street regulatory reform law institutes racial quotas for hiring and used that claim to revisit the smear that lending to minorities caused the economic crisis. In fact, the law sets no racial or gender quotas for hiring or lending. Read More

            Conservative media invent controversy over Rauf's 9-11 comments
            The conservative media have repeatedly attacked Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf for his remark that "the United States' policies were an accessory" to the 9-11 attacks. However, Rauf's comments are not outside the mainstream; indeed, the former chairman and vice chairman of the 9/11 Commission have stated that U.S. "actions have contributed" to "a rising tide of radicalization and rage in the Muslim world." Read More

            The right-wing race-baiting revue: Schlessinger's rant is just the latest act
            Dr. Laura Schlessinger's racially charged rant, in which she "articulated the 'n' word all the way out -- more than one time," is only the latest in a year of public displays of racially loaded rhetoric by right-wing media figures. Read More
           
     
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From jo.david at verizon.net  Sat Aug 14 18:55:50 2010
From: jo.david at verizon.net (David Morelli)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 18:55:50 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Fw: Media Matters: Glenn Beck, Holy Warrior
In-Reply-To: <7FCAD308ACFC49969125E66250BCCF11@EdDaviePC>
References: <7FCAD308ACFC49969125E66250BCCF11@EdDaviePC>
Message-ID: <28EBFAC1-A422-4415-982A-EF5A0F70EBAB@verizon.net>

I have comment on this topic.

 note:  the conversation did not originate with Don.

David

On Aug 14, 2010, at 9:38 AM, Ed Davie wrote:

> weekly-table
> 
> 
> From: Media Matters for America 
> Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 10:37 PM
> To: edavie at verizon.net 
> Subject: Media Matters: Glenn Beck, Holy Warrior
> 
> 
> 
>     August 13, 2010  
> 
>      Media Matters: Glenn Beck, Holy Warrior


From jo.david at verizon.net  Sat Aug 14 22:06:21 2010
From: jo.david at verizon.net (David Morelli)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 22:06:21 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Fw: Media Matters Daily Summary
In-Reply-To: <47DF09C0397A4D90ACBC9823578490D9@EdDaviePC>
References: <47DF09C0397A4D90ACBC9823578490D9@EdDaviePC>
Message-ID: <0DA215F1-7002-40C6-A4E8-E4C10C1757C1@verizon.net>

Actually, I agree with FOX if they have said what you claim.

It wasn't intended to apply to anyone other than the children of African slaves who had been born in this country.

However, the Supreme court has ruled that the Constitution applies to all people equally, which means ( despite the intent ) the law does apply to all children born within the limits of the 14th Amendment.

I do believe that it should be revised to exclude children born to people who are tourists or those who have entered without permission.

David

On Aug 14, 2010, at 9:33 AM, Ed Davie wrote:

> Media Matters for America
> ...
>            Fox promotes false claim that 14th Amendment was not meant to apply to children of immigrants
>            Fox has repeatedly aired an Arizona State Senator Russell Pearce's (R) false claim that the 14th Amendment was "never" meant to apply to the children of "aliens, legal, or illegal." However, scholars, the Congressional Research Service, and the Supreme Court have concluded that the amendment applies to children born in the United States, regardless of their parents' immigration status.
>            Read More



From adamsmayer at gmail.com  Sun Aug 15 07:11:10 2010
From: adamsmayer at gmail.com (Adam Mayer)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 07:11:10 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Fw: Media Matters: Glenn Beck, Holy Warrior
In-Reply-To: <7FCAD308ACFC49969125E66250BCCF11@EdDaviePC>
References: <7FCAD308ACFC49969125E66250BCCF11@EdDaviePC>
Message-ID: <4C67F57E.5090808@gmail.com>

Surprised that Media Matters would still be going after Glenn Beck after 
they got egg on their face earlier this week from a previous attack.

Adam

Ed Davie wrote:
> weekly-table
>
>
> From: Media Matters for America 
> Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 10:37 PM
> To: edavie at verizon.net 
> Subject: Media Matters: Glenn Beck, Holy Warrior
>
>
>      
>      August 13, 2010  
>      
>       Media Matters: Glenn Beck, Holy Warrior
>
>       Back in April, Glenn Beck informed his radio listeners that during his trip to the Vatican, an "individual" there told him that "what you're doing is wildly important" in the upcoming struggle against forces of "great darkness." 
>
>       Earlier the same week, Beck explained that he was promoting "the plan that [God] would have me articulate, I think, to you," against "darkness." While notable on their own merits, Beck's comments were especially striking because they marked what was (at the time) the culmination of Beck's regular portrayal of himself as fighting on behalf of "good" against the forces of "evil" and "darkness." 
>
>       Since then, Beck has made it abundantly clear that he does not use this sort of language metaphorically -- he quite literally believes he is fighting on the side of God against Satan. In the months since his trip to the Vatican, Beck has ramped up the frequency and intensity with which he frames the current political debate in our country in biblical, and sometimes apocalyptic, terms.
>
>       For example, in recent months, Beck has:
>
>         a.. Compared Barack Obama to Lucifer. 
>         a.. Looked skyward on his TV show and said, "Lord, it's your turn, we've done everything we can" while comparing the current situation in our country to Stephen King's post-apocalyptic novel The Stand. In the same segment, Beck also told people they need to ask for forgiveness, and said that "we're in a dark, dark place" and "dark dudes" are "coming our way." He added, "Now, I'm hoping the guy with horns doesn't actually show up, but he could." 
>         a.. Explained that we are fighting "the oldest battle that man has ever fought. It is the battle in the war in heaven. It is the battle that we fought in the Garden of Eden. Choice." Beck also compared Obama and his administration to the snake in the Garden of Eden because he "will make the choices for you." 
>         a.. Hosted a panel of pastors and preachers that he billed as "people that need to start standing up." During the show, Beck plugged the "excellent" book by Rev. John Hagee, Can America Survive? 10 Prophetic Signs That We Are the Terminal Generation, which he apparently had just started reading. Hagee's book interprets biblical prophecy to argue that the world is fast approaching Armageddon and the second coming of Jesus Christ. Beck explicitly endorsed Hagee's theory by stating as fact that "a lot of the pieces that have never been here for the prophecy are here now." 
>         a.. Repeatedly suggested that progressives and liberals are "enemies of God" and "enemies of Him," and declared that they "don't have [God] on their side." 
>         a.. Told his listeners to "make no mistake: You are fighting a power far greater, far greater than any elected official. This has been the works for a very long time." He then warned that the "gates of Hell will open up." 
>       This brings us to Beck's upcoming "Restoring Honor" rally, which is slated to take place in two weeks. Beck has repeatedly described the rally as historic and modestly declared that it "will be remembered in American history as the turning point." As he has explained it, Beck originally wanted to schedule the rally for September 12, but didn't want people to "work on the Sabbath," so he rescheduled it for August 28. When he later discovered that this date marked the 47th anniversary of Martin Luther King Jr.'s "I Have a Dream" speech, rather than chalking it up to coincidence, Beck claimed that it was "divine providence." 
>
>       Just think about that for a second -- Beck is so convinced he is working on behalf of the forces of "good" that he believes God made sure the date of his self-aggrandizement festival coincided with the anniversary of a landmark speech by a civil rights icon.
>
>       Beck's messianic religiosity took the next logical step this week, when he announced a new event scheduled on the eve of the 8-28 rally. Employing his characteristic humility, the event will be titled "Glenn Beck's Divine Destiny" and will feature "nationally-known figures from all faiths." Beck describes the evening as an "eye-opening" event "that will help heal your soul."
>
>       While Beck regularly garners plenty of attention, his increasingly intense religiosity has flown mostly under the radar. If we're to take him at his word, then he sincerely believes that he is fighting on behalf of God against the forces of Satan -- or as Beck calls them, "progressives." If that isn't the case, then he's cynically using biblical fearmongering in order to continue to grow his brand and score political points.
>
>       I'm not sure which is worse. Either way, it's deserving of more attention.
>
>       Bottom of the anti-mosque barrel
>       If conservatives had a reasonable case against the supposed "Ground Zero mosque," they wouldn't need to rely on blatant falsehoods to make their arguments. However, when you are working backward from the thesis "Muslims are all terrorists and terrorist sympathizers," then you are bound to make some leaps of logic in support of your "point."
>
>       This week, conservative media figures focused much of their ire on Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf's upcoming State Department trip to the Middle East to "discuss Muslim life in America and religious tolerance." Several of the usual suspects complained that Rauf was going on a "taxpayer-funded fundraising jaunt" to finance his proposed Islamic cultural center. As we noted, the State Department has made explicit that fundraising of any kind is prohibited during the trip.
>
>       Perhaps more importantly, conservatives' attacks on Rauf's trip amount to an accidental indictment of a program the Bush administration felt was useful in fighting terror. Rauf began participating in the outreach program during the Bush administration. Of course, people like unhinged right-wing blogger Pam Geller ignored such inconvenient facts when they were calling the trip "disturbing."
>
>       Sean Hannity repeatedly took Rauf's writings out of context to paint him as "anything but moderate" and falsely claimed that Rauf wants to "shred our Constitution" and replace it with Sharia law. Glenn Beck joined Hannity in smearing Rauf by saying that Rauf "employs" an imam who blamed "the Jews" for 9-11. He doesn't.
>
>       But the anti-mosque discourse bottomed out (hopefully), as it often does, with our friends at NewsBusters. This week, Mark Finkelstein uncovered a "chilling" fact about the Islamic community center as he discussed Geller's anti-mosque ads on New York buses -- which tastelessly depict the image of a plane hitting the World Trade Center on 9-11, falsely suggest that the mosque is opening on September 11, 2011, and add an imaginary star and crescent to the artist's rendering of the building. I'll let him explain his discovery:
>
>         Have a look at the screencap below showing the mosque's proposed design [note that the anti-mosque group wasn't misrepresenting the design. See mosque architect's rendering here]. Sure looks a lot like the WTC towers themselves, doesn't it?  Hard to imagine that's a coincidence. A certain implicit triumphalism involved?
>
>       Here's the "chilling" artist's rendering that Finkelstein linked to:
>
>
>
>       I can think of no better encapsulation of both the ineptitude of NewsBusters and the ongoing desperation of conservative media figures struggling to find a not-overtly bigoted reason to oppose the Islamic center than parsing the "certain implicit triumphalism involved" in shaping it like a building.
>
>       This weekly wrap-up was compiled by Media Matters' Ben Dimiero.
>
>            Forward This E-mail To A Friend
>       Share your concern about conservative misinformation 
>
>       Sign up
>       Did a friend forward you this email? Click here to sign up to receive Media Matters for America email alerts. 
>      
>       You can unsubscribe at any time by clicking here
>
>       ? 2010 Media Matters for America
>       455 Massachusetts Ave, NW, Suite 600, Washington, D.C. 20001 
>      
>  
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
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>
>   


From waltw at teleport.com  Sun Aug 15 08:25:45 2010
From: waltw at teleport.com (Walt Wentz)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 08:25:45 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Fw: Media Matters Daily Summary
In-Reply-To: <0DA215F1-7002-40C6-A4E8-E4C10C1757C1@verizon.net>
References: <47DF09C0397A4D90ACBC9823578490D9@EdDaviePC>
	<0DA215F1-7002-40C6-A4E8-E4C10C1757C1@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <EEC8E0F4-C4EA-4BC7-AD50-F067B0718E62@teleport.com>

I believe that the Founding Fathers, eager to expand the population  
of the fledgeling country, made access to citizenship as easy as  
possible.
And the 14th Amendment was intended to remove restrictions upon  
children of the former slaves, mostly born and perforce "residing"  
here, but without official citizenship.
But foreign persons entering the country in violation of immigration  
laws established subsequently should not be able to use children born  
here as bargaining chips.  In that, FOX has it right-- although I  
rather doubt that this is actually among the nation's truly pressing  
problems, those which FOX tends to ignore.
Of course, FOX's deliberate use of the phase "dropping babies" is a  
cynical attempt to equate immigrants with farm animals (demonization,  
anyone?). And I rather doubt that many impoverished immigrant women,  
busy avoiding authorities and working at menial jobs, would  
deliberately become pregnant so as to deliver an "anchor baby" in the  
United States. Naturally, the babies themselves have no choice in the  
matter.  Still, the gray area does need to be addressed by a  
thoughtful revision to the law. I think a practicable and humane  
solution would be that all babies born to foreign parents within the  
United States after a "date certain" would be citizens of their  
parent's respective nations; but that persons born in the United  
States before that "date certain," who could provide a legal American  
birth certificate, and demonstrate at least 10 years' residence and a  
practical knowledge of American life, could attain citizenship by  
passing the examination given to legal immigrants.
Their parents would remain "illegal," as would their children born  
subsequently, but otherwise they'd be no worse off than before.
I really don't think this revision would flood us with the huge  
hordes of Hispanic-American babies that FOX loves to screech about.  
Those who had spent at least 10 years here, who had absorbed the  
national culture and who could pass the citizenship exam would  
probably be only a small percentage of the "ambiguous" class. But a  
gray area would be removed from immigration law, and FOX would have  
one less manufactured "crisis" to exaggerate and screech about.   
Don't worry, they'll create plenty of others...
WW

On Aug 14, 2010, at 10:06 PM, David Morelli wrote:

> Actually, I agree with FOX if they have said what you claim.
>
> It wasn't intended to apply to anyone other than the children of  
> African slaves who had been born in this country.
>
> However, the Supreme court has ruled that the Constitution applies  
> to all people equally, which means ( despite the intent ) the law  
> does apply to all children born within the limits of the 14th  
> Amendment.
>
> I do believe that it should be revised to exclude children born to  
> people who are tourists or those who have entered without permission.
>
> David
>
> On Aug 14, 2010, at 9:33 AM, Ed Davie wrote:
>
>> Media Matters for America
>> ...
>>            Fox promotes false claim that 14th Amendment was not  
>> meant to apply to children of immigrants
>>            Fox has repeatedly aired an Arizona State Senator  
>> Russell Pearce's (R) false claim that the 14th Amendment was  
>> "never" meant to apply to the children of "aliens, legal, or  
>> illegal." However, scholars, the Congressional Research Service,  
>> and the Supreme Court have concluded that the amendment applies to  
>> children born in the United States, regardless of their parents'  
>> immigration status.
>>            Read More
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From waltw at teleport.com  Sun Aug 15 09:19:28 2010
From: waltw at teleport.com (Walt Wentz)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 09:19:28 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] A Mortuary Question
In-Reply-To: <4C67F57E.5090808@gmail.com>
References: <7FCAD308ACFC49969125E66250BCCF11@EdDaviePC>
	<4C67F57E.5090808@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C12FF7B8-52DA-4C49-8047-593ED95F6D0B@teleport.com>

A  friend of mine, whose  brother in a Portland VA hospital is in his  
final decline, is wondering whether anyone knows of a local mortuary  
that provides simple, reasonably-priced cremations (his ashes will be  
scattered in a favorite place). But money is tight.
Does anyone know of a Portland-area mortuary to recommend? For that  
matter, does anyone know whether the VA will cover part of the cost  
for cremations, as they will for ordinary burials of veterans?
Walt


From NoSpam03 at comcast.net  Sun Aug 15 09:50:41 2010
From: NoSpam03 at comcast.net (Steven)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 09:50:41 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] A Mortuary Question
In-Reply-To: <C12FF7B8-52DA-4C49-8047-593ED95F6D0B@teleport.com>
References: <7FCAD308ACFC49969125E66250BCCF11@EdDaviePC>	<4C67F57E.5090808@gmail.com>
	<C12FF7B8-52DA-4C49-8047-593ED95F6D0B@teleport.com>
Message-ID: <000601cb3c99$ffa2bff0$fee83fd0$@net>

I would suggest talking to the guys at the local mortuary. It is family
owned, not a big corporation thing. I hate dealing with the big corp, as I
have with some of my family members.
Fuiten-Rose-Hoyt at Cedar and Pacific. Someone will answer the phone 24/7.
503-357-2161 if memory serves me right. Even if you don't use them, the
information will be useful.
There probably are VA benefits as well as Social Security if that applies.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
> Behalf Of Walt Wentz
> Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 9:19 AM
> To: Forest Grove local interests list
> Subject: [Grovenet] A Mortuary Question
> 
> A  friend of mine, whose  brother in a Portland VA hospital is in his
> final decline, is wondering whether anyone knows of a local mortuary
> that provides simple, reasonably-priced cremations (his ashes will be
> scattered in a favorite place). But money is tight.
> Does anyone know of a Portland-area mortuary to recommend? For that
> matter, does anyone know whether the VA will cover part of the cost
> for cremations, as they will for ordinary burials of veterans?
> Walt
> 
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From ocollaugh at comcast.net  Sun Aug 15 10:49:48 2010
From: ocollaugh at comcast.net (donkelly)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 17:49:48 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Grovenet] Fw: Media Matters Daily Summary
In-Reply-To: <EEC8E0F4-C4EA-4BC7-AD50-F067B0718E62@teleport.com>
Message-ID: <1180597229.1417488.1281894588187.JavaMail.root@sz0024a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

I agree with Walt,and David, as I believe most of us in FG do, that emmigration is runaway and the emmigration law, as described by Walt, should be ammended and clarified.

But we We the people are not helpless to change things, we should lobby our congressional representatives to very aggressively write a bi-partisan bill to clarify emmigration laws. It does not have to be more than one or two pages long- - - -BUT it will probably end up 2,000 pages long, with 1,980 pages of crap hidden inside.

But I disagree with Walt on the screetching part. If the liberal (read socialist) media would do their job of reporting news, FOX would have far less to screetch about.

Given that FOX et. al. and Limbaugh types, have the largest audio-visual following of any news dispensing company in America, and outside of America too, socialist news organizations should screetch more, that the news leaders can screetch less.

So don't blame FOX for reporting what the socialists and communists will not report. American oriented news organizations can blame only themselves for not enjoying a larger share of American followers. Just blame the major media.

Now off the soapbox and back to genealogy of Washington State.

With respect for all opinions, even those with which I disagree, donkelly

 
----- Original Message -----
From: Walt Wentz <waltw at teleport.com>
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 15:25:45 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Fw: Media Matters Daily Summary

I believe that the Founding Fathers, eager to expand the population  
of the fledgeling country, made access to citizenship as easy as  
possible.
And the 14th Amendment was intended to remove restrictions upon  
children of the former slaves, mostly born and perforce "residing"  
here, but without official citizenship.
But foreign persons entering the country in violation of immigration  
laws established subsequently should not be able to use children born  
here as bargaining chips.  In that, FOX has it right-- although I  
rather doubt that this is actually among the nation's truly pressing  
problems, those which FOX tends to ignore.
Of course, FOX's deliberate use of the phase "dropping babies" is a  
cynical attempt to equate immigrants with farm animals (demonization,  
anyone?). And I rather doubt that many impoverished immigrant women,  
busy avoiding authorities and working at menial jobs, would  
deliberately become pregnant so as to deliver an "anchor baby" in the  
United States. Naturally, the babies themselves have no choice in the  
matter.  Still, the gray area does need to be addressed by a  
thoughtful revision to the law. I think a practicable and humane  
solution would be that all babies born to foreign parents within the  
United States after a "date certain" would be citizens of their  
parent's respective nations; but that persons born in the United  
States before that "date certain," who could provide a legal American  
birth certificate, and demonstrate at least 10 years' residence and a  
practical knowledge of American life, could attain citizenship by  
passing the examination given to legal immigrants.
Their parents would remain "illegal," as would their children born  
subsequently, but otherwise they'd be no worse off than before.
I really don't think this revision would flood us with the huge  
hordes of Hispanic-American babies that FOX loves to screech about.  
Those who had spent at least 10 years here, who had absorbed the  
national culture and who could pass the citizenship exam would  
probably be only a small percentage of the "ambiguous" class. But a  
gray area would be removed from immigration law, and FOX would have  
one less manufactured "crisis" to exaggerate and screech about.   
Don't worry, they'll create plenty of others...
WW

On Aug 14, 2010, at 10:06 PM, David Morelli wrote:

> Actually, I agree with FOX if they have said what you claim.
>
> It wasn't intended to apply to anyone other than the children of  
> African slaves who had been born in this country.
>
> However, the Supreme court has ruled that the Constitution applies  
> to all people equally, which means ( despite the intent ) the law  
> does apply to all children born within the limits of the 14th  
> Amendment.
>
> I do believe that it should be revised to exclude children born to  
> people who are tourists or those who have entered without permission.
>
> David
>
> On Aug 14, 2010, at 9:33 AM, Ed Davie wrote:
>
>> Media Matters for America
>> ...
>>            Fox promotes false claim that 14th Amendment was not  
>> meant to apply to children of immigrants
>>            Fox has repeatedly aired an Arizona State Senator  
>> Russell Pearce's (R) false claim that the 14th Amendment was  
>> "never" meant to apply to the children of "aliens, legal, or  
>> illegal." However, scholars, the Congressional Research Service,  
>> and the Supreme Court have concluded that the amendment applies to  
>> children born in the United States, regardless of their parents'  
>> immigration status.


From ocollaugh at comcast.net  Sun Aug 15 11:44:11 2010
From: ocollaugh at comcast.net (donkelly)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 18:44:11 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Grovenet] Fw: Media Matters: Glenn Beck, Holy Warrior
In-Reply-To: <4C67F57E.5090808@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <421351094.1418743.1281897851807.JavaMail.root@sz0024a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

Don't be surprised Adam. Lots of them join Gibbs and others as functional idiots.

This short one in today. What I get out of it is that the government does not want the 14th ammendment to be clarified. In other words, if it comes out of the houses to Obama's desk, he will not sign it. He really does want more democrat voters, or he will have to find another job to screw up.
==========
White House against ending birthright citizenship
Associated Press - 8/14/2010 6:10:00 AM


WASHINGTON - The Obama administration says it's wrong to try to change the constitutional amendment that grants automatic citizenship to babies
born in the United States.


 


Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano says she's surprised that Republican congressional leaders are joining a push to reconsider the
14th Amendment instead of working with Democrats on comprehensive
immigration reform. Napolitano says that's "just wrong."

 

White House spokesman Robert Gibbs says President Barack Obama agrees with Napolitano.

 

Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky has said he supports holding hearings to reconsider the citizenship rights of illegal
immigrants' babies born in the U.S. But he emphasized that Washington
should remain focused on border security.

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Headlines/Default.aspx?id=1123814

==========

Peace. donkelly
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Adam Mayer <adamsmayer at gmail.com>
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 14:11:10 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Fw: Media Matters: Glenn Beck, Holy Warrior

Surprised that Media Matters would still be going after Glenn Beck after 
they got egg on their face earlier this week from a previous attack.

Adam



From obrzl at verizon.net  Sun Aug 15 10:49:44 2010
From: obrzl at verizon.net (obrzl at verizon.net)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 12:49:44 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] A Mortuary Question
Message-ID: <2097900737.190113.1281894584376.JavaMail.root@vms170055>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100815/a83ad252/attachment.html 

From edavie at verizon.net  Sun Aug 15 14:03:36 2010
From: edavie at verizon.net (Ed Davie)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 14:03:36 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] A Mortuary Question
In-Reply-To: <C12FF7B8-52DA-4C49-8047-593ED95F6D0B@teleport.com>
References: <7FCAD308ACFC49969125E66250BCCF11@EdDaviePC>
	<4C67F57E.5090808@gmail.com>
	<C12FF7B8-52DA-4C49-8047-593ED95F6D0B@teleport.com>
Message-ID: <2DA452E3ABAD45EB937391FD27636B23@EdDaviePC>

Some years ago I had occasion to bury/cremate my late wife. I used the mortuary here in FG but had the body transported to a hospital (not sure which one) for research, I think. They did the cremation and SS paid $300 if I remember correctly. That was the extent of it. There wasn't much expense at the mortuary since they didn't do much but the transportation.
Ed


From: Walt Wentz 
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 9:19 AM
To: Forest Grove local interests list 
Subject: [Grovenet] A Mortuary Question


A  friend of mine, whose  brother in a Portland VA hospital is in his  
final decline, is wondering whether anyone knows of a local mortuary  
that provides simple, reasonably-priced cremations (his ashes will be  
scattered in a favorite place). But money is tight.
Does anyone know of a Portland-area mortuary to recommend? For that  
matter, does anyone know whether the VA will cover part of the cost  
for cremations, as they will for ordinary burials of veterans?
Walt

_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

From edavie at verizon.net  Sun Aug 15 14:06:13 2010
From: edavie at verizon.net (Ed Davie)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 14:06:13 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Fw: Media Matters: Glenn Beck, Holy Warrior
In-Reply-To: <4C67F57E.5090808@gmail.com>
References: <7FCAD308ACFC49969125E66250BCCF11@EdDaviePC>
	<4C67F57E.5090808@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9C5B99C60A5341A2A03DBB176DD2DEEA@EdDaviePC>

For what did they get "egg on their face". I hadn't heard that.
Ed


From: Adam Mayer 
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 7:11 AM
To: Forest Grove local interests list 
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Fw: Media Matters: Glenn Beck, Holy Warrior


Surprised that Media Matters would still be going after Glenn Beck after 
they got egg on their face earlier this week from a previous attack.

Adam


From canam58 at msn.com  Sun Aug 15 14:09:10 2010
From: canam58 at msn.com (DWIGHT HOLMES)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 14:09:10 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] A Mortuary Question
In-Reply-To: <7FCAD308ACFC49969125E66250BCCF11@EdDaviePC>
	<4C67F57E.5090808@gmail.com><C12FF7B8-52DA-4C49-8047-593ED95F6D0B@teleport.com>
	<000601cb3c99$ffa2bff0$fee83fd0$@net>
References: <7FCAD308ACFC49969125E66250BCCF11@EdDaviePC>
	<4C67F57E.5090808@gmail.com><C12FF7B8-52DA-4C49-8047-593ED95F6D0B@teleport.com>
	<000601cb3c99$ffa2bff0$fee83fd0$@net>
Message-ID: <BAY148-ds1705A6B7AA48981332C86EA89A0@phx.gbl>

We used "Autumn Funerals & Cremations " in Tigard 5 years ago for our mother , very nice people to work with. 503-443-4900
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Steven<mailto:NoSpam03 at comcast.net> 
  To: 'Forest Grove local interests list'<mailto:grovenet at rdrop.com> 
  Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 9:50 AM
  Subject: Re: [Grovenet] A Mortuary Question


  I would suggest talking to the guys at the local mortuary. It is family
  owned, not a big corporation thing. I hate dealing with the big corp, as I
  have with some of my family members.
  Fuiten-Rose-Hoyt at Cedar and Pacific. Someone will answer the phone 24/7.
  503-357-2161 if memory serves me right. Even if you don't use them, the
  information will be useful.
  There probably are VA benefits as well as Social Security if that applies.

  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com<mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com> [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
  > Behalf Of Walt Wentz
  > Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 9:19 AM
  > To: Forest Grove local interests list
  > Subject: [Grovenet] A Mortuary Question
  > 
  > A  friend of mine, whose  brother in a Portland VA hospital is in his
  > final decline, is wondering whether anyone knows of a local mortuary
  > that provides simple, reasonably-priced cremations (his ashes will be
  > scattered in a favorite place). But money is tight.
  > Does anyone know of a Portland-area mortuary to recommend? For that
  > matter, does anyone know whether the VA will cover part of the cost
  > for cremations, as they will for ordinary burials of veterans?
  > Walt
  > 
  > _______________________________________________
  > GroveNet mailing list
  > GroveNet at rdrop.com<mailto:GroveNet at rdrop.com>
  > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet<http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet>


  _______________________________________________
  GroveNet mailing list
  GroveNet at rdrop.com<mailto:GroveNet at rdrop.com>
  http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet<http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet>

From embien at starband.net  Sun Aug 15 15:19:38 2010
From: embien at starband.net (Mike Northam)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 15:19:38 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] A Mortuary Question
References: <7FCAD308ACFC49969125E66250BCCF11@EdDaviePC><4C67F57E.5090808@gmail.com><C12FF7B8-52DA-4C49-8047-593ED95F6D0B@teleport.com><000601cb3c99$ffa2bff0$fee83fd0$@net>
	<BAY148-ds1705A6B7AA48981332C86EA89A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <3941F3E15D0E4E7DACBF69AADD34ED64@saralie3>

We used Autumn for my mother also.  They were very nice to work with, I 
agree.  Also, they were very knowledgeable and helpful with the legalities. 
And their price was quite reasonable.

Saralie Northam
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "DWIGHT HOLMES" <canam58 at msn.com>
To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 2:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] A Mortuary Question


> We used "Autumn Funerals & Cremations " in Tigard 5 years ago for our 
> mother , very nice people to work with. 503-443-4900
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: Steven<mailto:NoSpam03 at comcast.net>
>  To: 'Forest Grove local interests list'<mailto:grovenet at rdrop.com>
>  Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 9:50 AM
>  Subject: Re: [Grovenet] A Mortuary Question
>
>
>  I would suggest talking to the guys at the local mortuary. It is family
>  owned, not a big corporation thing. I hate dealing with the big corp, as 
> I
>  have with some of my family members.
>  Fuiten-Rose-Hoyt at Cedar and Pacific. Someone will answer the phone 
> 24/7.
>  503-357-2161 if memory serves me right. Even if you don't use them, the
>  information will be useful.
>  There probably are VA benefits as well as Social Security if that 
> applies.
>
>  > -----Original Message-----
>  > From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com<mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com> 
> [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
>  > Behalf Of Walt Wentz
>  > Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 9:19 AM
>  > To: Forest Grove local interests list
>  > Subject: [Grovenet] A Mortuary Question
>  >
>  > A  friend of mine, whose  brother in a Portland VA hospital is in his
>  > final decline, is wondering whether anyone knows of a local mortuary
>  > that provides simple, reasonably-priced cremations (his ashes will be
>  > scattered in a favorite place). But money is tight.
>  > Does anyone know of a Portland-area mortuary to recommend? For that
>  > matter, does anyone know whether the VA will cover part of the cost
>  > for cremations, as they will for ordinary burials of veterans?
>  > Walt
>  >
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > GroveNet mailing list
>  > GroveNet at rdrop.com<mailto:GroveNet at rdrop.com>
>  > 
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet<http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  GroveNet mailing list
>  GroveNet at rdrop.com<mailto:GroveNet at rdrop.com>
> 
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet<http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet 



From adamsmayer at gmail.com  Mon Aug 16 07:06:52 2010
From: adamsmayer at gmail.com (Adam Mayer)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 07:06:52 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Fw: Media Matters: Glenn Beck, Holy Warrior
In-Reply-To: <9C5B99C60A5341A2A03DBB176DD2DEEA@EdDaviePC>
References: <7FCAD308ACFC49969125E66250BCCF11@EdDaviePC>	<4C67F57E.5090808@gmail.com>
	<9C5B99C60A5341A2A03DBB176DD2DEEA@EdDaviePC>
Message-ID: <4C6945FC.6040108@gmail.com>

http://www.therightscoop.com/glenn-beck-fires-pat-stu-based-on-media-matters-recording

Ed Davie wrote:
> For what did they get "egg on their face". I hadn't heard that.
> Ed
>
>
> From: Adam Mayer 
> Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 7:11 AM
> To: Forest Grove local interests list 
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Fw: Media Matters: Glenn Beck, Holy Warrior
>
>
> Surprised that Media Matters would still be going after Glenn Beck after 
> they got egg on their face earlier this week from a previous attack.
>
> Adam
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
>   


From edavie at verizon.net  Mon Aug 16 07:31:33 2010
From: edavie at verizon.net (Ed Davie)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 07:31:33 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Fw: Media Matters: Glenn Beck, Holy Warrior
In-Reply-To: <4C6945FC.6040108@gmail.com>
References: <7FCAD308ACFC49969125E66250BCCF11@EdDaviePC>
	<4C67F57E.5090808@gmail.com>
	<9C5B99C60A5341A2A03DBB176DD2DEEA@EdDaviePC>
	<4C6945FC.6040108@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C8D35594769F494CBFB6C240A4A28C99@EdDaviePC>

I guess you have to consider the source.
Ed




From: Adam Mayer 
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 7:06 AM
To: Forest Grove local interests list 
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Fw: Media Matters: Glenn Beck, Holy Warrior


http://www.therightscoop.com/glenn-beck-fires-pat-stu-based-on-media-matters-recording

Ed Davie wrote:
> For what did they get "egg on their face". I hadn't heard that.
> Ed
>
>
> From: Adam Mayer 
> Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 7:11 AM
> To: Forest Grove local interests list 
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Fw: Media Matters: Glenn Beck, Holy Warrior
>
>
> Surprised that Media Matters would still be going after Glenn Beck after 
> they got egg on their face earlier this week from a previous attack.
>
> Adam
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
>   

_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

From redhead854 at msn.com  Mon Aug 16 16:40:27 2010
From: redhead854 at msn.com (Holly Di)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 16:40:27 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
Message-ID: <9458DB4E-0F51-49E6-85D7-9A36189FE499@msn.com>


I just called city of Cornelius and asked what are they going to do  
besides pit up reader boards telling us what lane to use If we are  
through traffic on eachside of the city?

I left voicemail for mr oppenheimer or something close to that. I say  
we all call and tell them that is not enough

(503) 357-3011
  Cornelius planning



From ocollaugh at comcast.net  Mon Aug 16 20:40:01 2010
From: ocollaugh at comcast.net (donkelly)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 03:40:01 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Grovenet] Fw: Media Matters: Glenn Beck, Holy Warrior
In-Reply-To: <4C6945FC.6040108@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <583735234.1488728.1282016401819.JavaMail.root@sz0024a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

I got kinda sidetracked today and ran across a 15 year old opera singer. I think you all would like to hear him. His voice is fantastic.

don

            http://charliephillips.net/videos/theater-9/mark-vincent.html




From jo.david at verizon.net  Mon Aug 16 22:26:33 2010
From: jo.david at verizon.net (David Morelli)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 22:26:33 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
In-Reply-To: <9458DB4E-0F51-49E6-85D7-9A36189FE499@msn.com>
References: <9458DB4E-0F51-49E6-85D7-9A36189FE499@msn.com>
Message-ID: <FD0E3BD2-06EE-4313-A2D0-311F4B5B6728@verizon.net>

Question, what is the purpose for the new road next to Neal Armstrong?  Who paid for the work?

David

On Aug 16, 2010, at 4:40 PM, Holly Di wrote:

> 
> I just called city of Cornelius and asked what are they going to do  
> besides pit up reader boards telling us what lane to use If we are  
> through traffic on eachside of the city?
> 
> I left voicemail for mr oppenheimer or something close to that. I say  
> we all call and tell them that is not enough
> 
> (503) 357-3011
>  Cornelius planning
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet




From ocollaugh at comcast.net  Mon Aug 16 22:32:25 2010
From: ocollaugh at comcast.net (donkelly)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 05:32:25 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
In-Reply-To: <FD0E3BD2-06EE-4313-A2D0-311F4B5B6728@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <1683082660.1492443.1282023145862.JavaMail.root@sz0024a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

Seemed to be working find today. I took the outside land because I was going home, not to Walmart. Did it open today or something?

don

----- Original Message -----
From: David Morelli <jo.david at verizon.net>
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 05:26:33 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked

Question, what is the purpose for the new road next to Neal Armstrong?  Who paid for the work?

David

On Aug 16, 2010, at 4:40 PM, Holly Di wrote:

> 
> I just called city of Cornelius and asked what are they going to do  
> besides pit up reader boards telling us what lane to use If we are  
> through traffic on eachside of the city?
> 
> I left voicemail for mr oppenheimer or something close to that. I say  
> we all call and tell them that is not enough
> 
> (503) 357-3011
>  Cornelius planning
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From waltw at teleport.com  Tue Aug 17 08:10:44 2010
From: waltw at teleport.com (Walt Wentz)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 08:10:44 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
In-Reply-To: <1683082660.1492443.1282023145862.JavaMail.root@sz0024a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
References: <1683082660.1492443.1282023145862.JavaMail.root@sz0024a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <FE72E4FA-40E3-47D2-A00F-60BC6615010E@teleport.com>

I've been driving the route the past couple of days, and traffic  
seems a little heavier both going and coming. I suspect that as more  
people "discover" the new store, traffic will get progressively worse  
even as local businesses struggle harder.
WW
On Aug 16, 2010, at 10:32 PM, donkelly wrote:

> Seemed to be working find today. I took the outside land because I  
> was going home, not to Walmart. Did it open today or something?
>
> don
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: David Morelli <jo.david at verizon.net>
> To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> Sent: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 05:26:33 -0000 (UTC)
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
>
> Question, what is the purpose for the new road next to Neal  
> Armstrong?  Who paid for the work?
>
> David
>
> On Aug 16, 2010, at 4:40 PM, Holly Di wrote:
>
>>
>> I just called city of Cornelius and asked what are they going to do
>> besides pit up reader boards telling us what lane to use If we are
>> through traffic on eachside of the city?
>>
>> I left voicemail for mr oppenheimer or something close to that. I say
>> we all call and tell them that is not enough
>>
>> (503) 357-3011
>>  Cornelius planning
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From g-g-steele at comcast.net  Tue Aug 17 08:21:44 2010
From: g-g-steele at comcast.net (Geri Steele)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 08:21:44 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
In-Reply-To: <FE72E4FA-40E3-47D2-A00F-60BC6615010E@teleport.com>
References: <1683082660.1492443.1282023145862.JavaMail.root@sz0024a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<FE72E4FA-40E3-47D2-A00F-60BC6615010E@teleport.com>
Message-ID: <F2D1CD3F2C844E66910CD0DA0A64EB5A@GeriPC>

Yes, indeed. Everyone start scouting all alternate routes now!

Used to take me about 6-8 minutes to get from Gales Creek Rd. near Thatcher, 
to Cornelius....  Aah, the 'old' days, lol!  But it's been quite a while 
since it took anything less than twice that.  And now it'll be worse.  On 
the other hand, I really hope this does for Cornelius what they want --  
without damaging F.G.!

Geri

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Walt Wentz" <waltw at teleport.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 8:10 AM
To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked

> I've been driving the route the past couple of days, and traffic
> seems a little heavier both going and coming. I suspect that as more
> people "discover" the new store, traffic will get progressively worse
> even as local businesses struggle harder.
> WW
> On Aug 16, 2010, at 10:32 PM, donkelly wrote:
>
>> Seemed to be working find today. I took the outside land because I
>> was going home, not to Walmart. Did it open today or something?
>>
>> don
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: David Morelli <jo.david at verizon.net>
>> To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
>> Sent: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 05:26:33 -0000 (UTC)
>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
>>
>> Question, what is the purpose for the new road next to Neal
>> Armstrong?  Who paid for the work?
>>
>> David
>>
>> On Aug 16, 2010, at 4:40 PM, Holly Di wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I just called city of Cornelius and asked what are they going to do
>>> besides pit up reader boards telling us what lane to use If we are
>>> through traffic on eachside of the city?
>>>
>>> I left voicemail for mr oppenheimer or something close to that. I say
>>> we all call and tell them that is not enough
>>>
>>> (503) 357-3011
>>>  Cornelius planning
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GroveNet mailing list
>>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> 



From redhead854 at msn.com  Tue Aug 17 09:47:33 2010
From: redhead854 at msn.com (Holly Di)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 09:47:33 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
In-Reply-To: <F2D1CD3F2C844E66910CD0DA0A64EB5A@GeriPC>
References: <1683082660.1492443.1282023145862.JavaMail.root@sz0024a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>,
	<FE72E4FA-40E3-47D2-A00F-60BC6615010E@teleport.com>,
	<F2D1CD3F2C844E66910CD0DA0A64EB5A@GeriPC>
Message-ID: <BAY127-W11B4F2B1E603FA5EF791CB879C0@phx.gbl>



Sorry for the bad punctuation and grammar on my first message.  I sent it from my phone. The store opens tomorrow.

The way the sign reads Walmart traffic is suppose to use the left lane when you are going East twords Cornelius
from Forest Grove.  I am thinking that they are estimating that that lane will be complete back up (hence the sign is near Ace Hardware)
as people try to turn Left at the light.  If they are planning that why did they not pave an additional  TURN LEFT only lane????  As both lanes of
travel going straight are needed ??  What are they thinking ??

Same thing going West.  the Reader sign is near Fred Meyers, telling Walmart shoppers to stay in the right lane?  When I travel thru town in rush hour
I use the right  lane through that area because the left lane is full of people who turn left slowly,,, or suddenly decide they have to go to 7-11 or the bank.


The sign placement tells me that they think that there will be quite a back up,,, If they think it will cause that much of an issue, why isn't there more lanes, more
of everything.  not just a READER Board "Thru traffic use this lane,,,,Walmart Traffic use this lane" . I have to think that they believe the traffic is going to be 
backed up significantly because if not they are  insulting our intelligence Like we would just continue driving in whatever lane and dive across and turn left at 
random.  

Yes I am not looking forward to the additional traffic clogging up Cornelius.  I will probably avoid traveling through there all together,  I wont stop at the 
local business and purchase stuff on my way home, I will take back roads from Hillsboro to get home.  Yet another affect that Cornelius business' will feel from  the lack 
of planning for traffic with Walmart. 

I dont feel anti walmart, I am feeling anti City of Cornelius.  They need to set their traffic lights like Hillsboro, so you stop once and flow thru at 30mph.

 







> From: g-g-steele at comcast.net
> To: grovenet at rdrop.com
> Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 08:21:44 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
> 
> Yes, indeed. Everyone start scouting all alternate routes now!
> 
> Used to take me about 6-8 minutes to get from Gales Creek Rd. near Thatcher, 
> to Cornelius....  Aah, the 'old' days, lol!  But it's been quite a while 
> since it took anything less than twice that.  And now it'll be worse.  On 
> the other hand, I really hope this does for Cornelius what they want --  
> without damaging F.G.!
> 
> Geri
> 
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Walt Wentz" <waltw at teleport.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 8:10 AM
> To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
> 
> > I've been driving the route the past couple of days, and traffic
> > seems a little heavier both going and coming. I suspect that as more
> > people "discover" the new store, traffic will get progressively worse
> > even as local businesses struggle harder.
> > WW
> > On Aug 16, 2010, at 10:32 PM, donkelly wrote:
> >
> >> Seemed to be working find today. I took the outside land because I
> >> was going home, not to Walmart. Did it open today or something?
> >>
> >> don
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: David Morelli <jo.david at verizon.net>
> >> To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> >> Sent: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 05:26:33 -0000 (UTC)
> >> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
> >>
> >> Question, what is the purpose for the new road next to Neal
> >> Armstrong?  Who paid for the work?
> >>
> >> David
> >>
> >> On Aug 16, 2010, at 4:40 PM, Holly Di wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> I just called city of Cornelius and asked what are they going to do
> >>> besides pit up reader boards telling us what lane to use If we are
> >>> through traffic on eachside of the city?
> >>>
> >>> I left voicemail for mr oppenheimer or something close to that. I say
> >>> we all call and tell them that is not enough
> >>>
> >>> (503) 357-3011
> >>>  Cornelius planning
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> GroveNet mailing list
> >>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> >>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> GroveNet mailing list
> >> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> >> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> GroveNet mailing list
> >> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> >> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GroveNet mailing list
> > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
 		 	   		  

From g-g-steele at comcast.net  Tue Aug 17 09:59:17 2010
From: g-g-steele at comcast.net (Geri Steele)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 09:59:17 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
In-Reply-To: <BAY127-W11B4F2B1E603FA5EF791CB879C0@phx.gbl>
References: <1683082660.1492443.1282023145862.JavaMail.root@sz0024a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>,
	<FE72E4FA-40E3-47D2-A00F-60BC6615010E@teleport.com>,
	<F2D1CD3F2C844E66910CD0DA0A64EB5A@GeriPC>
	<BAY127-W11B4F2B1E603FA5EF791CB879C0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <6F4271E86B5F4D19979EA9E64A99CCE9@GeriPC>


Now I want to scream --  Holly, I haven't been out that way in the last 
couple
of days, so didn't know those signs were up.  Those signs are NOT a good
indication of what is expected!!!  :(


Geri

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Holly Di" <redhead854 at msn.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 9:47 AM
To: <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked

>
>
> Sorry for the bad punctuation and grammar on my first message.  I sent it 
> from my phone. The store opens tomorrow.
>
> The way the sign reads Walmart traffic is suppose to use the left lane 
> when you are going East twords Cornelius
> from Forest Grove.  I am thinking that they are estimating that that lane 
> will be complete back up (hence the sign is near Ace Hardware)
> as people try to turn Left at the light.  If they are planning that why 
> did they not pave an additional  TURN LEFT only lane????  As both lanes of
> travel going straight are needed ??  What are they thinking ??
>
> Same thing going West.  the Reader sign is near Fred Meyers, telling 
> Walmart shoppers to stay in the right lane?  When I travel thru town in 
> rush hour
> I use the right  lane through that area because the left lane is full of 
> people who turn left slowly,,, or suddenly decide they have to go to 7-11 
> or the bank.
>
>
> The sign placement tells me that they think that there will be quite a 
> back up,,, If they think it will cause that much of an issue, why isn't 
> there more lanes, more
> of everything.  not just a READER Board "Thru traffic use this 
> lane,,,,Walmart Traffic use this lane" . I have to think that they believe 
> the traffic is going to be
> backed up significantly because if not they are  insulting our 
> intelligence Like we would just continue driving in whatever lane and dive 
> across and turn left at
> random.
>
> Yes I am not looking forward to the additional traffic clogging up 
> Cornelius.  I will probably avoid traveling through there all together,  I 
> wont stop at the
> local business and purchase stuff on my way home, I will take back roads 
> from Hillsboro to get home.  Yet another affect that Cornelius business' 
> will feel from  the lack
> of planning for traffic with Walmart.
>
> I dont feel anti walmart, I am feeling anti City of Cornelius.  They need 
> to set their traffic lights like Hillsboro, so you stop once and flow thru 
> at 30mph.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> From: g-g-steele at comcast.net
>> To: grovenet at rdrop.com
>> Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 08:21:44 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
>>
>> Yes, indeed. Everyone start scouting all alternate routes now!
>>
>> Used to take me about 6-8 minutes to get from Gales Creek Rd. near 
>> Thatcher,
>> to Cornelius....  Aah, the 'old' days, lol!  But it's been quite a while
>> since it took anything less than twice that.  And now it'll be worse.  On
>> the other hand, I really hope this does for Cornelius what they want --
>> without damaging F.G.!
>>
>> Geri
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Walt Wentz" <waltw at teleport.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 8:10 AM
>> To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
>>
>> > I've been driving the route the past couple of days, and traffic
>> > seems a little heavier both going and coming. I suspect that as more
>> > people "discover" the new store, traffic will get progressively worse
>> > even as local businesses struggle harder.
>> > WW
>> > On Aug 16, 2010, at 10:32 PM, donkelly wrote:
>> >
>> >> Seemed to be working find today. I took the outside land because I
>> >> was going home, not to Walmart. Did it open today or something?
>> >>
>> >> don
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: David Morelli <jo.david at verizon.net>
>> >> To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
>> >> Sent: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 05:26:33 -0000 (UTC)
>> >> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
>> >>
>> >> Question, what is the purpose for the new road next to Neal
>> >> Armstrong?  Who paid for the work?
>> >>
>> >> David
>> >>
>> >> On Aug 16, 2010, at 4:40 PM, Holly Di wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> I just called city of Cornelius and asked what are they going to do
>> >>> besides pit up reader boards telling us what lane to use If we are
>> >>> through traffic on eachside of the city?
>> >>>
>> >>> I left voicemail for mr oppenheimer or something close to that. I say
>> >>> we all call and tell them that is not enough
>> >>>
>> >>> (503) 357-3011
>> >>>  Cornelius planning
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> GroveNet mailing list
>> >>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> >>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> GroveNet mailing list
>> >> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> >> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> GroveNet mailing list
>> >> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> >> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > GroveNet mailing list
>> > GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>> >
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> 



From debbratland at gmail.com  Tue Aug 17 10:22:41 2010
From: debbratland at gmail.com (Debra Bratland)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 10:22:41 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Walmart Questions
Message-ID: <AANLkTim60We1GDnTE1pMSEqKzShaHz44Z5ycD3q248U+@mail.gmail.com>

I'm with you, Holly.  I'm not philosophically opposed to Walmart being here
- but the traffic situation is what irks me.  Cornelius will reap the
benefits, but FG commuters will pay a heavy price, I fear.  Poor planning
with little regard for FG residents.

I am curious about something, though.  I hear people say that Walmart is
going to hurt local businesses, and I've always wondered what that means.
What kinds of products will people buy at Walmart instead of at "local"
businesses?  I suppose that depends on what you think of as "local".

If you're talking about local specialty stores, I wonder if Walmart will
really cut into their business?  I'm thinking that people with limited
resources generally don't buy at local specialty shops anyway, and that
people who already buy at those shops won't abandon them for Walmart
products.  For example, it doesn't seem to me that people who shop at Let's
Play (Hillsboro) for toys will suddenly switch their business to Walmart.  I
don't think that people who shop at the FG Farmer's Market will go to
Walmart on Wednesday evening instead of to the Farmer's Market.  I would
think that Frye's would be pretty safe - again, because of their expertise
and inventory.

If you're talking about Fred Meyer, Safeway, and BiMart (my favorite general
store in FG), then I suppose there will be some shift in where people buy.
But I guess I don't think of those stores as "local businesses", other than
that they've been around for awhile.  Our Ace Hardware is "local", but
again, I don't think Walmart can compete with Ace's expertise or inventory.

My dad works for a locally-owned grocery store in South Dakota.  When
Walmart moved to town, the owner worried about a loss of business.  He did
lose business - but it was only about 2%.  His customer base stayed loyal,
he reinvigorated his customer service, he expanded his catering service, and
in the end his store hasn't suffered.

Anyway, I'm curious as to what other people think, and wondering what I'm
missing in my thought processes.  I know that I won't frequent Walmart
except when my son wants to buy video games (something he currently buys at
Fred Meyer), because having been in Walmarts across the country -  from
Alaska to Texas - I just don't like their huge stores with their huge
partking lots.

By the way, I don't remember people being concerned about losses to local
businesses when Costco came to Hillsboro.  I may not have been paying
attention, as I live in FG.  Did I miss that, or was it never an issue?

Deb Bratland


On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Holly Di <redhead854 at msn.com> wrote:

>
>
> Sorry for the bad punctuation and grammar on my first message.  I sent it
> from my phone. The store opens tomorrow.
>
> The way the sign reads Walmart traffic is suppose to use the left lane when
> you are going East twords Cornelius
> from Forest Grove.  I am thinking that they are estimating that that lane
> will be complete back up (hence the sign is near Ace Hardware)
> as people try to turn Left at the light.  If they are planning that why did
> they not pave an additional  TURN LEFT only lane????  As both lanes of
> travel going straight are needed ??  What are they thinking ??
>
> Same thing going West.  the Reader sign is near Fred Meyers, telling
> Walmart shoppers to stay in the right lane?  When I travel thru town in rush
> hour
> I use the right  lane through that area because the left lane is full of
> people who turn left slowly,,, or suddenly decide they have to go to 7-11 or
> the bank.
>
>
> The sign placement tells me that they think that there will be quite a back
> up,,, If they think it will cause that much of an issue, why isn't there
> more lanes, more
> of everything.  not just a READER Board "Thru traffic use this
> lane,,,,Walmart Traffic use this lane" . I have to think that they believe
> the traffic is going to be
> backed up significantly because if not they are  insulting our intelligence
> Like we would just continue driving in whatever lane and dive across and
> turn left at
> random.
>
> Yes I am not looking forward to the additional traffic clogging up
> Cornelius.  I will probably avoid traveling through there all together,  I
> wont stop at the
> local business and purchase stuff on my way home, I will take back roads
> from Hillsboro to get home.  Yet another affect that Cornelius business'
> will feel from  the lack
> of planning for traffic with Walmart.
>
> I dont feel anti walmart, I am feeling anti City of Cornelius.  They need
> to set their traffic lights like Hillsboro, so you stop once and flow thru
> at 30mph.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > From: g-g-steele at comcast.net
> > To: grovenet at rdrop.com
> > Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 08:21:44 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
> >
> > Yes, indeed. Everyone start scouting all alternate routes now!
> >
> > Used to take me about 6-8 minutes to get from Gales Creek Rd. near
> Thatcher,
> > to Cornelius....  Aah, the 'old' days, lol!  But it's been quite a while
> > since it took anything less than twice that.  And now it'll be worse.  On
> > the other hand, I really hope this does for Cornelius what they want --
> > without damaging F.G.!
> >
> > Geri
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------
> > From: "Walt Wentz" <waltw at teleport.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 8:10 AM
> > To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
> >
> > > I've been driving the route the past couple of days, and traffic
> > > seems a little heavier both going and coming. I suspect that as more
> > > people "discover" the new store, traffic will get progressively worse
> > > even as local businesses struggle harder.
> > > WW
> > > On Aug 16, 2010, at 10:32 PM, donkelly wrote:
> > >
> > >> Seemed to be working find today. I took the outside land because I
> > >> was going home, not to Walmart. Did it open today or something?
> > >>
> > >> don
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: David Morelli <jo.david at verizon.net>
> > >> To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> > >> Sent: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 05:26:33 -0000 (UTC)
> > >> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
> > >>
> > >> Question, what is the purpose for the new road next to Neal
> > >> Armstrong?  Who paid for the work?
> > >>
> > >> David
> > >>
> > >> On Aug 16, 2010, at 4:40 PM, Holly Di wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>> I just called city of Cornelius and asked what are they going to do
> > >>> besides pit up reader boards telling us what lane to use If we are
> > >>> through traffic on eachside of the city?
> > >>>
> > >>> I left voicemail for mr oppenheimer or something close to that. I say
> > >>> we all call and tell them that is not enough
> > >>>
> > >>> (503) 357-3011
> > >>>  Cornelius planning
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> GroveNet mailing list
> > >>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > >>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> GroveNet mailing list
> > >> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > >> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> GroveNet mailing list
> > >> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > >> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GroveNet mailing list
> > > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GroveNet mailing list
> > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>

From redhead854 at msn.com  Tue Aug 17 10:40:50 2010
From: redhead854 at msn.com (Holly Di)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 10:40:50 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Walmart Questions
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTim60We1GDnTE1pMSEqKzShaHz44Z5ycD3q248U+@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTim60We1GDnTE1pMSEqKzShaHz44Z5ycD3q248U+@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY127-W1155497C029CE18EF6E5A6879C0@phx.gbl>


I watched a documentary about Walmart years ago,  It talked about how Walmart's business model put pressure on the suppliers to the point 
where alot of suppliers/Manufacturers went out of business.  Walmart twisted Rubbermaids arm so hard that they went out of business in the US and sold their
molds overseas, and now all the rubbermaid products we buy are made in China.  The product costs so much to make and walmart insisted that they sell it to 
them for under their cost to produce.  

Walmart sells alot of products that are not made in the US.  Less and less products made in the US means less jobs here.  Also makes US company trim workforces via
lower living wages to staff- less health care coverage- so that they can compete to sell for less.  Business's including walmart are encouraged instead of having longtime 
full time employee's cycle thru employees like temps.  Not providing living wage or enough hours for them to quailfiy for benefits.  So they work for a while then quit 
and qualify for government assistance and Government healthcare.(costing more and more to taxpayers,  Its tough to find a job that has better benefits than Oregon 
Health plan) Living wage job with Healthcare benefits are hard to find in the US.  That is what I think Walmart does overall.

 (I agree with you Freds, Costco, Safeway, Winco will feel the pain most)



Thats my 2 cents.

Holly 





> Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 10:22:41 -0700
> From: debbratland at gmail.com
> To: grovenet at rdrop.com
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Walmart Questions
> 
> I'm with you, Holly.  I'm not philosophically opposed to Walmart being here
> - but the traffic situation is what irks me.  Cornelius will reap the
> benefits, but FG commuters will pay a heavy price, I fear.  Poor planning
> with little regard for FG residents.
> 
> I am curious about something, though.  I hear people say that Walmart is
> going to hurt local businesses, and I've always wondered what that means.
> What kinds of products will people buy at Walmart instead of at "local"
> businesses?  I suppose that depends on what you think of as "local".
> 
> If you're talking about local specialty stores, I wonder if Walmart will
> really cut into their business?  I'm thinking that people with limited
> resources generally don't buy at local specialty shops anyway, and that
> people who already buy at those shops won't abandon them for Walmart
> products.  For example, it doesn't seem to me that people who shop at Let's
> Play (Hillsboro) for toys will suddenly switch their business to Walmart.  I
> don't think that people who shop at the FG Farmer's Market will go to
> Walmart on Wednesday evening instead of to the Farmer's Market.  I would
> think that Frye's would be pretty safe - again, because of their expertise
> and inventory.
> 
> If you're talking about Fred Meyer, Safeway, and BiMart (my favorite general
> store in FG), then I suppose there will be some shift in where people buy.
> But I guess I don't think of those stores as "local businesses", other than
> that they've been around for awhile.  Our Ace Hardware is "local", but
> again, I don't think Walmart can compete with Ace's expertise or inventory.
> 
> My dad works for a locally-owned grocery store in South Dakota.  When
> Walmart moved to town, the owner worried about a loss of business.  He did
> lose business - but it was only about 2%.  His customer base stayed loyal,
> he reinvigorated his customer service, he expanded his catering service, and
> in the end his store hasn't suffered.
> 
> Anyway, I'm curious as to what other people think, and wondering what I'm
> missing in my thought processes.  I know that I won't frequent Walmart
> except when my son wants to buy video games (something he currently buys at
> Fred Meyer), because having been in Walmarts across the country -  from
> Alaska to Texas - I just don't like their huge stores with their huge
> partking lots.
> 
> By the way, I don't remember people being concerned about losses to local
> businesses when Costco came to Hillsboro.  I may not have been paying
> attention, as I live in FG.  Did I miss that, or was it never an issue?
> 
> Deb Bratland
> 
> 
> On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Holly Di <redhead854 at msn.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > Sorry for the bad punctuation and grammar on my first message.  I sent it
> > from my phone. The store opens tomorrow.
> >
> > The way the sign reads Walmart traffic is suppose to use the left lane when
> > you are going East twords Cornelius
> > from Forest Grove.  I am thinking that they are estimating that that lane
> > will be complete back up (hence the sign is near Ace Hardware)
> > as people try to turn Left at the light.  If they are planning that why did
> > they not pave an additional  TURN LEFT only lane????  As both lanes of
> > travel going straight are needed ??  What are they thinking ??
> >
> > Same thing going West.  the Reader sign is near Fred Meyers, telling
> > Walmart shoppers to stay in the right lane?  When I travel thru town in rush
> > hour
> > I use the right  lane through that area because the left lane is full of
> > people who turn left slowly,,, or suddenly decide they have to go to 7-11 or
> > the bank.
> >
> >
> > The sign placement tells me that they think that there will be quite a back
> > up,,, If they think it will cause that much of an issue, why isn't there
> > more lanes, more
> > of everything.  not just a READER Board "Thru traffic use this
> > lane,,,,Walmart Traffic use this lane" . I have to think that they believe
> > the traffic is going to be
> > backed up significantly because if not they are  insulting our intelligence
> > Like we would just continue driving in whatever lane and dive across and
> > turn left at
> > random.
> >
> > Yes I am not looking forward to the additional traffic clogging up
> > Cornelius.  I will probably avoid traveling through there all together,  I
> > wont stop at the
> > local business and purchase stuff on my way home, I will take back roads
> > from Hillsboro to get home.  Yet another affect that Cornelius business'
> > will feel from  the lack
> > of planning for traffic with Walmart.
> >
> > I dont feel anti walmart, I am feeling anti City of Cornelius.  They need
> > to set their traffic lights like Hillsboro, so you stop once and flow thru
> > at 30mph.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > From: g-g-steele at comcast.net
> > > To: grovenet at rdrop.com
> > > Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 08:21:44 -0700
> > > Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
> > >
> > > Yes, indeed. Everyone start scouting all alternate routes now!
> > >
> > > Used to take me about 6-8 minutes to get from Gales Creek Rd. near
> > Thatcher,
> > > to Cornelius....  Aah, the 'old' days, lol!  But it's been quite a while
> > > since it took anything less than twice that.  And now it'll be worse.  On
> > > the other hand, I really hope this does for Cornelius what they want --
> > > without damaging F.G.!
> > >
> > > Geri
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------
> > > From: "Walt Wentz" <waltw at teleport.com>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 8:10 AM
> > > To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
> > >
> > > > I've been driving the route the past couple of days, and traffic
> > > > seems a little heavier both going and coming. I suspect that as more
> > > > people "discover" the new store, traffic will get progressively worse
> > > > even as local businesses struggle harder.
> > > > WW
> > > > On Aug 16, 2010, at 10:32 PM, donkelly wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Seemed to be working find today. I took the outside land because I
> > > >> was going home, not to Walmart. Did it open today or something?
> > > >>
> > > >> don
> > > >>
> > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > > >> From: David Morelli <jo.david at verizon.net>
> > > >> To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> > > >> Sent: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 05:26:33 -0000 (UTC)
> > > >> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
> > > >>
> > > >> Question, what is the purpose for the new road next to Neal
> > > >> Armstrong?  Who paid for the work?
> > > >>
> > > >> David
> > > >>
> > > >> On Aug 16, 2010, at 4:40 PM, Holly Di wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I just called city of Cornelius and asked what are they going to do
> > > >>> besides pit up reader boards telling us what lane to use If we are
> > > >>> through traffic on eachside of the city?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I left voicemail for mr oppenheimer or something close to that. I say
> > > >>> we all call and tell them that is not enough
> > > >>>
> > > >>> (503) 357-3011
> > > >>>  Cornelius planning
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> _______________________________________________
> > > >>> GroveNet mailing list
> > > >>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > > >>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> GroveNet mailing list
> > > >> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > > >> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> GroveNet mailing list
> > > >> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > > >> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > GroveNet mailing list
> > > > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GroveNet mailing list
> > > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GroveNet mailing list
> > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
 		 	   		  

From jimzzz42 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 17 11:02:35 2010
From: jimzzz42 at gmail.com (Jim Zaleski)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 11:02:35 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Walmart Questions
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTim60We1GDnTE1pMSEqKzShaHz44Z5ycD3q248U+@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTim60We1GDnTE1pMSEqKzShaHz44Z5ycD3q248U+@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinzK7mcFaKyHZ0KhfFOoe1ds70mvLG9yCf_hkue@mail.gmail.com>

Debra,

The dark side of Walmart is too involved to address here, but they have a
legacy of destructive practices when it comes to local businesses; their
community relations are abysmal; they treat their employee poorly; they
offer little benefits; they outsource nearly everything from China; they
have no qualms about putting every mom and pop operation out of business;
they don't care about you or me, they care about profit. And the traffic
situation they will create? They could care less, it's the city's problem
after all. And if you missed the story behind the switch from Hank's
Thirftway in Cornelius to Grande Foods, you probably don't have sufficient
insights into the destructiveness of a WalMart moving into town to make a
decision one way or the other. I just encourage you to look into it. Grande
Foods is a desperate attempt to stave off the effects of WalMart on an
established local business, and to remain alive and competitive. Despite
their valiant effort however, I don't know if they will be able to hold
their own against this retail juggernaut.

There is a good reason why there is almost always an organized opposition to
a WalMart moving into towns and cities throughout the country. Sometimes the
opposition wins, ours was not so successful.

I figure we will probably see the demise of Fred Meyer, because it's always
been a marginal operation here. I just don't think FM will put up much of a
fight. As for Bi-Mart, I'm not sure what will happen to them. They are also
my favorite local store, but they too must face the giant the the east, and
if profits begin to dwindle,  then maybe they too will pull up stakes and
move on. Ace Hardware? They may stay alive because they carry so many items
found no where else, however, should their business drop off significantly
because the people who used to go there for 'common' everyday items, decide
just to pick them up at WalMart, then you may see them fold as well. I hope
not, but then I don't know how well Ace is doing now and whether they can
withstand a decrease in business for long. And as far as the small retail
shops in the immediate vicinity of the store, they're days, unfortunately,
are numbered.

Despite all the hype, WalMart is *not* good for the community, and they will
wind up taking more away from the community than they put into it. The
problem with traffic will soon be eclipsed by their affect on local
businesses. Just Google "WalMart and Local Competition," to get an idea of
their impact on small communities. It may change your mind if you have any
good thoughts about the benefits of their being here.

My final thoughts on it's opening are to invite everyone to look into the
WalMart operation before you buy, and SHOP WITH YOUR CONSCIENCE, NOT YOUR
WALLET. Don't shop there, I know I won't.

jimz

On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 10:22 AM, Debra Bratland <debbratland at gmail.com>wrote:

> I'm with you, Holly.  I'm not philosophically opposed to Walmart being here
> - but the traffic situation is what irks me.  Cornelius will reap the
> benefits, but FG commuters will pay a heavy price, I fear.  Poor planning
> with little regard for FG residents.
>
> I am curious about something, though.  I hear people say that Walmart is
> going to hurt local businesses, and I've always wondered what that means.
> What kinds of products will people buy at Walmart instead of at "local"
> businesses?  I suppose that depends on what you think of as "local".
>
> If you're talking about local specialty stores, I wonder if Walmart will
> really cut into their business?  I'm thinking that people with limited
> resources generally don't buy at local specialty shops anyway, and that
> people who already buy at those shops won't abandon them for Walmart
> products.  For example, it doesn't seem to me that people who shop at Let's
> Play (Hillsboro) for toys will suddenly switch their business to Walmart.
>  I
> don't think that people who shop at the FG Farmer's Market will go to
> Walmart on Wednesday evening instead of to the Farmer's Market.  I would
> think that Frye's would be pretty safe - again, because of their expertise
> and inventory.
>
> If you're talking about Fred Meyer, Safeway, and BiMart (my favorite
> general
> store in FG), then I suppose there will be some shift in where people buy.
> But I guess I don't think of those stores as "local businesses", other than
> that they've been around for awhile.  Our Ace Hardware is "local", but
> again, I don't think Walmart can compete with Ace's expertise or inventory.
>
> My dad works for a locally-owned grocery store in South Dakota.  When
> Walmart moved to town, the owner worried about a loss of business.  He did
> lose business - but it was only about 2%.  His customer base stayed loyal,
> he reinvigorated his customer service, he expanded his catering service,
> and
> in the end his store hasn't suffered.
>
> Anyway, I'm curious as to what other people think, and wondering what I'm
> missing in my thought processes.  I know that I won't frequent Walmart
> except when my son wants to buy video games (something he currently buys at
> Fred Meyer), because having been in Walmarts across the country -  from
> Alaska to Texas - I just don't like their huge stores with their huge
> partking lots.
>
> By the way, I don't remember people being concerned about losses to local
> businesses when Costco came to Hillsboro.  I may not have been paying
> attention, as I live in FG.  Did I miss that, or was it never an issue?
>
> Deb Bratland
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Holly Di <redhead854 at msn.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Sorry for the bad punctuation and grammar on my first message.  I sent it
> > from my phone. The store opens tomorrow.
> >
> > The way the sign reads Walmart traffic is suppose to use the left lane
> when
> > you are going East twords Cornelius
> > from Forest Grove.  I am thinking that they are estimating that that lane
> > will be complete back up (hence the sign is near Ace Hardware)
> > as people try to turn Left at the light.  If they are planning that why
> did
> > they not pave an additional  TURN LEFT only lane????  As both lanes of
> > travel going straight are needed ??  What are they thinking ??
> >
> > Same thing going West.  the Reader sign is near Fred Meyers, telling
> > Walmart shoppers to stay in the right lane?  When I travel thru town in
> rush
> > hour
> > I use the right  lane through that area because the left lane is full of
> > people who turn left slowly,,, or suddenly decide they have to go to 7-11
> or
> > the bank.
> >
> >
> > The sign placement tells me that they think that there will be quite a
> back
> > up,,, If they think it will cause that much of an issue, why isn't there
> > more lanes, more
> > of everything.  not just a READER Board "Thru traffic use this
> > lane,,,,Walmart Traffic use this lane" . I have to think that they
> believe
> > the traffic is going to be
> > backed up significantly because if not they are  insulting our
> intelligence
> > Like we would just continue driving in whatever lane and dive across and
> > turn left at
> > random.
> >
> > Yes I am not looking forward to the additional traffic clogging up
> > Cornelius.  I will probably avoid traveling through there all together,
>  I
> > wont stop at the
> > local business and purchase stuff on my way home, I will take back roads
> > from Hillsboro to get home.  Yet another affect that Cornelius business'
> > will feel from  the lack
> > of planning for traffic with Walmart.
> >
> > I dont feel anti walmart, I am feeling anti City of Cornelius.  They need
> > to set their traffic lights like Hillsboro, so you stop once and flow
> thru
> > at 30mph.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > From: g-g-steele at comcast.net
> > > To: grovenet at rdrop.com
> > > Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 08:21:44 -0700
> > > Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
> > >
> > > Yes, indeed. Everyone start scouting all alternate routes now!
> > >
> > > Used to take me about 6-8 minutes to get from Gales Creek Rd. near
> > Thatcher,
> > > to Cornelius....  Aah, the 'old' days, lol!  But it's been quite a
> while
> > > since it took anything less than twice that.  And now it'll be worse.
>  On
> > > the other hand, I really hope this does for Cornelius what they want --
> > > without damaging F.G.!
> > >
> > > Geri
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------
> > > From: "Walt Wentz" <waltw at teleport.com>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 8:10 AM
> > > To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
> > >
> > > > I've been driving the route the past couple of days, and traffic
> > > > seems a little heavier both going and coming. I suspect that as more
> > > > people "discover" the new store, traffic will get progressively worse
> > > > even as local businesses struggle harder.
> > > > WW
> > > > On Aug 16, 2010, at 10:32 PM, donkelly wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Seemed to be working find today. I took the outside land because I
> > > >> was going home, not to Walmart. Did it open today or something?
> > > >>
> > > >> don
> > > >>
> > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > > >> From: David Morelli <jo.david at verizon.net>
> > > >> To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> > > >> Sent: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 05:26:33 -0000 (UTC)
> > > >> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
> > > >>
> > > >> Question, what is the purpose for the new road next to Neal
> > > >> Armstrong?  Who paid for the work?
> > > >>
> > > >> David
> > > >>
> > > >> On Aug 16, 2010, at 4:40 PM, Holly Di wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I just called city of Cornelius and asked what are they going to do
> > > >>> besides pit up reader boards telling us what lane to use If we are
> > > >>> through traffic on eachside of the city?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I left voicemail for mr oppenheimer or something close to that. I
> say
> > > >>> we all call and tell them that is not enough
> > > >>>
> > > >>> (503) 357-3011
> > > >>>  Cornelius planning
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> _______________________________________________
> > > >>> GroveNet mailing list
> > > >>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > > >>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> GroveNet mailing list
> > > >> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > > >> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> GroveNet mailing list
> > > >> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > > >> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > GroveNet mailing list
> > > > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GroveNet mailing list
> > > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GroveNet mailing list
> > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>

From jimzzz42 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 17 12:15:04 2010
From: jimzzz42 at gmail.com (Jim Zaleski)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 12:15:04 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Walmart Questions
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTim60We1GDnTE1pMSEqKzShaHz44Z5ycD3q248U+@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTim60We1GDnTE1pMSEqKzShaHz44Z5ycD3q248U+@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=D+RPO3RrsnLJsyhVh-DAJeAYbvFi1=MCtYfGP@mail.gmail.com>

Now here's a little sample of WalMart working hard to avoid paying taxes to
Oregon. Totally irresponsible, and the lowest form of corporate
profiteering. And some people say they are good for the economy. Just crooks
is corporate clothing raiding clean energy coffers for their own profit at
our expense.

http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2009/12/walmart_others_make_money_on_o.html

jimz

PS: I'm not naive enough to think that any of the controversies surrounding
WalMart will hurt their profit margin, it's not going to happen. As long as
they save people money, they will succeed. All the controversies be damned,
the almighty dollar is the power and the glory, the American dream. And the
lure to save a buck (especially in these times) is almost impossible to
ignore. When you pass by the store, that giant sucking sound you will hear
will be the WalMart machine sucking the local economy dry. A WalMart
wasteland will be the ultimate result of their efforts to dominate local
markets. A sad commentary of our times. And should there come day when
Cornelius officials will be looking at the sorry WalMart-state of their
economy, they'll probably just shake their heads and say, "We just didn't
seeing it coming". As the old saying goes, "you get what you pay for," in
this instance, Cornelius really didn't pay for anything, and that's exactly
what they'll get in return - nothing.



On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 10:22 AM, Debra Bratland <debbratland at gmail.com>wrote:

> I'm with you, Holly.  I'm not philosophically opposed to Walmart being here
> - but the traffic situation is what irks me.  Cornelius will reap the
> benefits, but FG commuters will pay a heavy price, I fear.  Poor planning
> with little regard for FG residents.
>
> I am curious about something, though.  I hear people say that Walmart is
> going to hurt local businesses, and I've always wondered what that means.
> What kinds of products will people buy at Walmart instead of at "local"
> businesses?  I suppose that depends on what you think of as "local".
>
> If you're talking about local specialty stores, I wonder if Walmart will
> really cut into their business?  I'm thinking that people with limited
> resources generally don't buy at local specialty shops anyway, and that
> people who already buy at those shops won't abandon them for Walmart
> products.  For example, it doesn't seem to me that people who shop at Let's
> Play (Hillsboro) for toys will suddenly switch their business to Walmart.
>  I
> don't think that people who shop at the FG Farmer's Market will go to
> Walmart on Wednesday evening instead of to the Farmer's Market.  I would
> think that Frye's would be pretty safe - again, because of their expertise
> and inventory.
>
> If you're talking about Fred Meyer, Safeway, and BiMart (my favorite
> general
> store in FG), then I suppose there will be some shift in where people buy.
> But I guess I don't think of those stores as "local businesses", other than
> that they've been around for awhile.  Our Ace Hardware is "local", but
> again, I don't think Walmart can compete with Ace's expertise or inventory.
>
> My dad works for a locally-owned grocery store in South Dakota.  When
> Walmart moved to town, the owner worried about a loss of business.  He did
> lose business - but it was only about 2%.  His customer base stayed loyal,
> he reinvigorated his customer service, he expanded his catering service,
> and
> in the end his store hasn't suffered.
>
> Anyway, I'm curious as to what other people think, and wondering what I'm
> missing in my thought processes.  I know that I won't frequent Walmart
> except when my son wants to buy video games (something he currently buys at
> Fred Meyer), because having been in Walmarts across the country -  from
> Alaska to Texas - I just don't like their huge stores with their huge
> partking lots.
>
> By the way, I don't remember people being concerned about losses to local
> businesses when Costco came to Hillsboro.  I may not have been paying
> attention, as I live in FG.  Did I miss that, or was it never an issue?
>
> Deb Bratland
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Holly Di <redhead854 at msn.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Sorry for the bad punctuation and grammar on my first message.  I sent it
> > from my phone. The store opens tomorrow.
> >
> > The way the sign reads Walmart traffic is suppose to use the left lane
> when
> > you are going East twords Cornelius
> > from Forest Grove.  I am thinking that they are estimating that that lane
> > will be complete back up (hence the sign is near Ace Hardware)
> > as people try to turn Left at the light.  If they are planning that why
> did
> > they not pave an additional  TURN LEFT only lane????  As both lanes of
> > travel going straight are needed ??  What are they thinking ??
> >
> > Same thing going West.  the Reader sign is near Fred Meyers, telling
> > Walmart shoppers to stay in the right lane?  When I travel thru town in
> rush
> > hour
> > I use the right  lane through that area because the left lane is full of
> > people who turn left slowly,,, or suddenly decide they have to go to 7-11
> or
> > the bank.
> >
> >
> > The sign placement tells me that they think that there will be quite a
> back
> > up,,, If they think it will cause that much of an issue, why isn't there
> > more lanes, more
> > of everything.  not just a READER Board "Thru traffic use this
> > lane,,,,Walmart Traffic use this lane" . I have to think that they
> believe
> > the traffic is going to be
> > backed up significantly because if not they are  insulting our
> intelligence
> > Like we would just continue driving in whatever lane and dive across and
> > turn left at
> > random.
> >
> > Yes I am not looking forward to the additional traffic clogging up
> > Cornelius.  I will probably avoid traveling through there all together,
>  I
> > wont stop at the
> > local business and purchase stuff on my way home, I will take back roads
> > from Hillsboro to get home.  Yet another affect that Cornelius business'
> > will feel from  the lack
> > of planning for traffic with Walmart.
> >
> > I dont feel anti walmart, I am feeling anti City of Cornelius.  They need
> > to set their traffic lights like Hillsboro, so you stop once and flow
> thru
> > at 30mph.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > From: g-g-steele at comcast.net
> > > To: grovenet at rdrop.com
> > > Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 08:21:44 -0700
> > > Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
> > >
> > > Yes, indeed. Everyone start scouting all alternate routes now!
> > >
> > > Used to take me about 6-8 minutes to get from Gales Creek Rd. near
> > Thatcher,
> > > to Cornelius....  Aah, the 'old' days, lol!  But it's been quite a
> while
> > > since it took anything less than twice that.  And now it'll be worse.
>  On
> > > the other hand, I really hope this does for Cornelius what they want --
> > > without damaging F.G.!
> > >
> > > Geri
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------
> > > From: "Walt Wentz" <waltw at teleport.com>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 8:10 AM
> > > To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
> > >
> > > > I've been driving the route the past couple of days, and traffic
> > > > seems a little heavier both going and coming. I suspect that as more
> > > > people "discover" the new store, traffic will get progressively worse
> > > > even as local businesses struggle harder.
> > > > WW
> > > > On Aug 16, 2010, at 10:32 PM, donkelly wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Seemed to be working find today. I took the outside land because I
> > > >> was going home, not to Walmart. Did it open today or something?
> > > >>
> > > >> don
> > > >>
> > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > > >> From: David Morelli <jo.david at verizon.net>
> > > >> To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> > > >> Sent: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 05:26:33 -0000 (UTC)
> > > >> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
> > > >>
> > > >> Question, what is the purpose for the new road next to Neal
> > > >> Armstrong?  Who paid for the work?
> > > >>
> > > >> David
> > > >>
> > > >> On Aug 16, 2010, at 4:40 PM, Holly Di wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I just called city of Cornelius and asked what are they going to do
> > > >>> besides pit up reader boards telling us what lane to use If we are
> > > >>> through traffic on eachside of the city?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I left voicemail for mr oppenheimer or something close to that. I
> say
> > > >>> we all call and tell them that is not enough
> > > >>>
> > > >>> (503) 357-3011
> > > >>>  Cornelius planning
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> _______________________________________________
> > > >>> GroveNet mailing list
> > > >>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > > >>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> GroveNet mailing list
> > > >> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > > >> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> GroveNet mailing list
> > > >> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > > >> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > GroveNet mailing list
> > > > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GroveNet mailing list
> > > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GroveNet mailing list
> > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>

From debbratland at gmail.com  Tue Aug 17 12:28:21 2010
From: debbratland at gmail.com (Debra Bratland)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 12:28:21 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Walmart Questions
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinzK7mcFaKyHZ0KhfFOoe1ds70mvLG9yCf_hkue@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTim60We1GDnTE1pMSEqKzShaHz44Z5ycD3q248U+@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinzK7mcFaKyHZ0KhfFOoe1ds70mvLG9yCf_hkue@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimXxev7j069hTiO5wNCmd3Aj6mgqr+HEwwcf9p5@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Jim -

And if you missed the story behind the switch from Hank's
Thirftway in Cornelius to Grande Foods, you probably don't have sufficient
insights into the destructiveness of a WalMart moving into town to make a
decision one way or the other.

You are obviously an expert on this subject and have looked at all sides
carefully.  I have issues about which I feel as passionately as you do about
this one, and I know it's hard when people don't see what I see.  So I
understand the frustration that your email illustrated.  But for me, it's
important to ask questions based on my personal thoughts and observations.
Please be tolerant.

No, Jim, I did not miss the Hanks/Grande story, but I also have read in the
local newspaper that, having made the switch, Grande hopes/believes that
Walmart will actually increase its business by bringing more people into the
community who will shop at Grande for products that are hard to find
elsewhere.  And personally, I see Grande as an addition to our community -
even though it came at the demise of our local Hanks (same owners though)
for fear that it would lose out to Walmart.  I think Grande's a great
example of a business adjusting to a change and I hope they experience
continued success.  Perhaps, Jim, you have knowledge about Grande's
financial health that I don't have, and perhaps Grande is desperate.  My
personal story - which I realize doesn't fit into your beliefs about Walmart
- was about a locally owned grocery store (very similar to Hanks)  that
didn't bite the dust when Walmart came to town.  It remains, a decade
post-Walmart, a very viable store.

I, too, worry about BiMart and the impact it might have, and I have wondered
how much Ace depends on little everyday things that can be bought
elsewhere.  However, if Ace does depend on that type of product,
wouldn't Ace have been done in already by Fred Meyer?  I guess I don't see
Walmart as being substantially different than Fred Meyer in terms of the
kinds of products that it sells.

You say that the days of the other local shops around here are numbered.
I'll ask you - specifically what shops?  As to Fred Meyer, as I said before,
it's not really "local".  (Though should it go under, I'll miss it.)

Holly - I saw that documentary too, and was very unhappy about what it
presented.  But I guess I think that other businesses are also guilty of
looking for cheap products produced overseas.  Nike, anyone?  Perhaps
Walmart got the ball rolling ... ?  Would it have happened anyway?

At any rate, as I said, I won't frequent Walmart because I don't
like shopping there.  And I'm unhappy about the traffic.  It will be a mess.

Deb Bratland
On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 11:02 AM, Jim Zaleski <jimzzz42 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Debra,
>
> The dark side of Walmart is too involved to address here, but they have a
> legacy of destructive practices when it comes to local businesses; their
> community relations are abysmal; they treat their employee poorly; they
> offer little benefits; they outsource nearly everything from China; they
> have no qualms about putting every mom and pop operation out of business;
> they don't care about you or me, they care about profit. And the traffic
> situation they will create? They could care less, it's the city's problem
> after all. And if you missed the story behind the switch from Hank's
> Thirftway in Cornelius to Grande Foods, you probably don't have sufficient
> insights into the destructiveness of a WalMart moving into town to make a
> decision one way or the other. I just encourage you to look into it. Grande
> Foods is a desperate attempt to stave off the effects of WalMart on an
> established local business, and to remain alive and competitive. Despite
> their valiant effort however, I don't know if they will be able to hold
> their own against this retail juggernaut.
>
> There is a good reason why there is almost always an organized opposition
> to
> a WalMart moving into towns and cities throughout the country. Sometimes
> the
> opposition wins, ours was not so successful.
>
> I figure we will probably see the demise of Fred Meyer, because it's always
> been a marginal operation here. I just don't think FM will put up much of a
> fight. As for Bi-Mart, I'm not sure what will happen to them. They are also
> my favorite local store, but they too must face the giant the the east, and
> if profits begin to dwindle,  then maybe they too will pull up stakes and
> move on. Ace Hardware? They may stay alive because they carry so many items
> found no where else, however, should their business drop off significantly
> because the people who used to go there for 'common' everyday items, decide
> just to pick them up at WalMart, then you may see them fold as well. I hope
> not, but then I don't know how well Ace is doing now and whether they can
> withstand a decrease in business for long. And as far as the small retail
> shops in the immediate vicinity of the store, they're days, unfortunately,
> are numbered.
>
> Despite all the hype, WalMart is *not* good for the community, and they
> will
> wind up taking more away from the community than they put into it. The
> problem with traffic will soon be eclipsed by their affect on local
> businesses. Just Google "WalMart and Local Competition," to get an idea of
> their impact on small communities. It may change your mind if you have any
> good thoughts about the benefits of their being here.
>
> My final thoughts on it's opening are to invite everyone to look into the
> WalMart operation before you buy, and SHOP WITH YOUR CONSCIENCE, NOT YOUR
> WALLET. Don't shop there, I know I won't.
>
> jimz
>
> On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 10:22 AM, Debra Bratland <debbratland at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > I'm with you, Holly.  I'm not philosophically opposed to Walmart being
> here
> > - but the traffic situation is what irks me.  Cornelius will reap the
> > benefits, but FG commuters will pay a heavy price, I fear.  Poor planning
> > with little regard for FG residents.
> >
> > I am curious about something, though.  I hear people say that Walmart is
> > going to hurt local businesses, and I've always wondered what that means.
> > What kinds of products will people buy at Walmart instead of at "local"
> > businesses?  I suppose that depends on what you think of as "local".
> >
> > If you're talking about local specialty stores, I wonder if Walmart will
> > really cut into their business?  I'm thinking that people with limited
> > resources generally don't buy at local specialty shops anyway, and that
> > people who already buy at those shops won't abandon them for Walmart
> > products.  For example, it doesn't seem to me that people who shop at
> Let's
> > Play (Hillsboro) for toys will suddenly switch their business to Walmart.
> >  I
> > don't think that people who shop at the FG Farmer's Market will go to
> > Walmart on Wednesday evening instead of to the Farmer's Market.  I would
> > think that Frye's would be pretty safe - again, because of their
> expertise
> > and inventory.
> >
> > If you're talking about Fred Meyer, Safeway, and BiMart (my favorite
> > general
> > store in FG), then I suppose there will be some shift in where people
> buy.
> > But I guess I don't think of those stores as "local businesses", other
> than
> > that they've been around for awhile.  Our Ace Hardware is "local", but
> > again, I don't think Walmart can compete with Ace's expertise or
> inventory.
> >
> > My dad works for a locally-owned grocery store in South Dakota.  When
> > Walmart moved to town, the owner worried about a loss of business.  He
> did
> > lose business - but it was only about 2%.  His customer base stayed
> loyal,
> > he reinvigorated his customer service, he expanded his catering service,
> > and
> > in the end his store hasn't suffered.
> >
> > Anyway, I'm curious as to what other people think, and wondering what I'm
> > missing in my thought processes.  I know that I won't frequent Walmart
> > except when my son wants to buy video games (something he currently buys
> at
> > Fred Meyer), because having been in Walmarts across the country -  from
> > Alaska to Texas - I just don't like their huge stores with their huge
> > partking lots.
> >
> > By the way, I don't remember people being concerned about losses to local
> > businesses when Costco came to Hillsboro.  I may not have been paying
> > attention, as I live in FG.  Did I miss that, or was it never an issue?
> >
> > Deb Bratland
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Holly Di <redhead854 at msn.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Sorry for the bad punctuation and grammar on my first message.  I sent
> it
> > > from my phone. The store opens tomorrow.
> > >
> > > The way the sign reads Walmart traffic is suppose to use the left lane
> > when
> > > you are going East twords Cornelius
> > > from Forest Grove.  I am thinking that they are estimating that that
> lane
> > > will be complete back up (hence the sign is near Ace Hardware)
> > > as people try to turn Left at the light.  If they are planning that why
> > did
> > > they not pave an additional  TURN LEFT only lane????  As both lanes of
> > > travel going straight are needed ??  What are they thinking ??
> > >
> > > Same thing going West.  the Reader sign is near Fred Meyers, telling
> > > Walmart shoppers to stay in the right lane?  When I travel thru town in
> > rush
> > > hour
> > > I use the right  lane through that area because the left lane is full
> of
> > > people who turn left slowly,,, or suddenly decide they have to go to
> 7-11
> > or
> > > the bank.
> > >
> > >
> > > The sign placement tells me that they think that there will be quite a
> > back
> > > up,,, If they think it will cause that much of an issue, why isn't
> there
> > > more lanes, more
> > > of everything.  not just a READER Board "Thru traffic use this
> > > lane,,,,Walmart Traffic use this lane" . I have to think that they
> > believe
> > > the traffic is going to be
> > > backed up significantly because if not they are  insulting our
> > intelligence
> > > Like we would just continue driving in whatever lane and dive across
> and
> > > turn left at
> > > random.
> > >
> > > Yes I am not looking forward to the additional traffic clogging up
> > > Cornelius.  I will probably avoid traveling through there all together,
> >  I
> > > wont stop at the
> > > local business and purchase stuff on my way home, I will take back
> roads
> > > from Hillsboro to get home.  Yet another affect that Cornelius
> business'
> > > will feel from  the lack
> > > of planning for traffic with Walmart.
> > >
> > > I dont feel anti walmart, I am feeling anti City of Cornelius.  They
> need
> > > to set their traffic lights like Hillsboro, so you stop once and flow
> > thru
> > > at 30mph.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > From: g-g-steele at comcast.net
> > > > To: grovenet at rdrop.com
> > > > Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 08:21:44 -0700
> > > > Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
> > > >
> > > > Yes, indeed. Everyone start scouting all alternate routes now!
> > > >
> > > > Used to take me about 6-8 minutes to get from Gales Creek Rd. near
> > > Thatcher,
> > > > to Cornelius....  Aah, the 'old' days, lol!  But it's been quite a
> > while
> > > > since it took anything less than twice that.  And now it'll be worse.
> >  On
> > > > the other hand, I really hope this does for Cornelius what they want
> --
> > > > without damaging F.G.!
> > > >
> > > > Geri
> > > >
> > > > --------------------------------------------------
> > > > From: "Walt Wentz" <waltw at teleport.com>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 8:10 AM
> > > > To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
> > > >
> > > > > I've been driving the route the past couple of days, and traffic
> > > > > seems a little heavier both going and coming. I suspect that as
> more
> > > > > people "discover" the new store, traffic will get progressively
> worse
> > > > > even as local businesses struggle harder.
> > > > > WW
> > > > > On Aug 16, 2010, at 10:32 PM, donkelly wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Seemed to be working find today. I took the outside land because I
> > > > >> was going home, not to Walmart. Did it open today or something?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> don
> > > > >>
> > > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > > > >> From: David Morelli <jo.david at verizon.net>
> > > > >> To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> > > > >> Sent: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 05:26:33 -0000 (UTC)
> > > > >> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Question, what is the purpose for the new road next to Neal
> > > > >> Armstrong?  Who paid for the work?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> David
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Aug 16, 2010, at 4:40 PM, Holly Di wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> I just called city of Cornelius and asked what are they going to
> do
> > > > >>> besides pit up reader boards telling us what lane to use If we
> are
> > > > >>> through traffic on eachside of the city?
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> I left voicemail for mr oppenheimer or something close to that. I
> > say
> > > > >>> we all call and tell them that is not enough
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> (503) 357-3011
> > > > >>>  Cornelius planning
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> _______________________________________________
> > > > >>> GroveNet mailing list
> > > > >>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > > > >>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > >> GroveNet mailing list
> > > > >> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > > > >> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > >> GroveNet mailing list
> > > > >> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > > > >> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > GroveNet mailing list
> > > > > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > > > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > GroveNet mailing list
> > > > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GroveNet mailing list
> > > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GroveNet mailing list
> > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>

From kathyayala at msn.com  Tue Aug 17 12:53:25 2010
From: kathyayala at msn.com (Kathy Ayala)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 12:53:25 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Walmart Questions
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTim60We1GDnTE1pMSEqKzShaHz44Z5ycD3q248U+@mail.gmail.com><AANLkTinzK7mcFaKyHZ0KhfFOoe1ds70mvLG9yCf_hkue@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimXxev7j069hTiO5wNCmd3Aj6mgqr+HEwwcf9p5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTim60We1GDnTE1pMSEqKzShaHz44Z5ycD3q248U+@mail.gmail.com><AANLkTinzK7mcFaKyHZ0KhfFOoe1ds70mvLG9yCf_hkue@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimXxev7j069hTiO5wNCmd3Aj6mgqr+HEwwcf9p5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU133-DS7B50DD5EAD05EC1B77D08DE9C0@phx.gbl>

Please remember that Nike has all there product made over sea's and it's is not just Nike, they own several company that have product on the store shelves, none made here in the US so they are not helping our money and the economy in any way. They employee a few people here in Oregon but and have store trough out the US in all states just as Wal-Mart does.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Debra Bratland<mailto:debbratland at gmail.com> 
  To: Forest Grove local interests list<mailto:grovenet at rdrop.com> 
  Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 12:28 PM
  Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Walmart Questions


  Hi Jim -

  And if you missed the story behind the switch from Hank's
  Thirftway in Cornelius to Grande Foods, you probably don't have sufficient
  insights into the destructiveness of a WalMart moving into town to make a
  decision one way or the other.

  You are obviously an expert on this subject and have looked at all sides
  carefully.  I have issues about which I feel as passionately as you do about
  this one, and I know it's hard when people don't see what I see.  So I
  understand the frustration that your email illustrated.  But for me, it's
  important to ask questions based on my personal thoughts and observations.
  Please be tolerant.

  No, Jim, I did not miss the Hanks/Grande story, but I also have read in the
  local newspaper that, having made the switch, Grande hopes/believes that
  Walmart will actually increase its business by bringing more people into the
  community who will shop at Grande for products that are hard to find
  elsewhere.  And personally, I see Grande as an addition to our community -
  even though it came at the demise of our local Hanks (same owners though)
  for fear that it would lose out to Walmart.  I think Grande's a great
  example of a business adjusting to a change and I hope they experience
  continued success.  Perhaps, Jim, you have knowledge about Grande's
  financial health that I don't have, and perhaps Grande is desperate.  My
  personal story - which I realize doesn't fit into your beliefs about Walmart
  - was about a locally owned grocery store (very similar to Hanks)  that
  didn't bite the dust when Walmart came to town.  It remains, a decade
  post-Walmart, a very viable store.

  I, too, worry about BiMart and the impact it might have, and I have wondered
  how much Ace depends on little everyday things that can be bought
  elsewhere.  However, if Ace does depend on that type of product,
  wouldn't Ace have been done in already by Fred Meyer?  I guess I don't see
  Walmart as being substantially different than Fred Meyer in terms of the
  kinds of products that it sells.

  You say that the days of the other local shops around here are numbered.
  I'll ask you - specifically what shops?  As to Fred Meyer, as I said before,
  it's not really "local".  (Though should it go under, I'll miss it.)

  Holly - I saw that documentary too, and was very unhappy about what it
  presented.  But I guess I think that other businesses are also guilty of
  looking for cheap products produced overseas.  Nike, anyone?  Perhaps
  Walmart got the ball rolling ... ?  Would it have happened anyway?

  At any rate, as I said, I won't frequent Walmart because I don't
  like shopping there.  And I'm unhappy about the traffic.  It will be a mess.

  Deb Bratland
  On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 11:02 AM, Jim Zaleski <jimzzz42 at gmail.com<mailto:jimzzz42 at gmail.com>> wrote:

  > Debra,
  >
  > The dark side of Walmart is too involved to address here, but they have a
  > legacy of destructive practices when it comes to local businesses; their
  > community relations are abysmal; they treat their employee poorly; they
  > offer little benefits; they outsource nearly everything from China; they
  > have no qualms about putting every mom and pop operation out of business;
  > they don't care about you or me, they care about profit. And the traffic
  > situation they will create? They could care less, it's the city's problem
  > after all. And if you missed the story behind the switch from Hank's
  > Thirftway in Cornelius to Grande Foods, you probably don't have sufficient
  > insights into the destructiveness of a WalMart moving into town to make a
  > decision one way or the other. I just encourage you to look into it. Grande
  > Foods is a desperate attempt to stave off the effects of WalMart on an
  > established local business, and to remain alive and competitive. Despite
  > their valiant effort however, I don't know if they will be able to hold
  > their own against this retail juggernaut.
  >
  > There is a good reason why there is almost always an organized opposition
  > to
  > a WalMart moving into towns and cities throughout the country. Sometimes
  > the
  > opposition wins, ours was not so successful.
  >
  > I figure we will probably see the demise of Fred Meyer, because it's always
  > been a marginal operation here. I just don't think FM will put up much of a
  > fight. As for Bi-Mart, I'm not sure what will happen to them. They are also
  > my favorite local store, but they too must face the giant the the east, and
  > if profits begin to dwindle,  then maybe they too will pull up stakes and
  > move on. Ace Hardware? They may stay alive because they carry so many items
  > found no where else, however, should their business drop off significantly
  > because the people who used to go there for 'common' everyday items, decide
  > just to pick them up at WalMart, then you may see them fold as well. I hope
  > not, but then I don't know how well Ace is doing now and whether they can
  > withstand a decrease in business for long. And as far as the small retail
  > shops in the immediate vicinity of the store, they're days, unfortunately,
  > are numbered.
  >
  > Despite all the hype, WalMart is *not* good for the community, and they
  > will
  > wind up taking more away from the community than they put into it. The
  > problem with traffic will soon be eclipsed by their affect on local
  > businesses. Just Google "WalMart and Local Competition," to get an idea of
  > their impact on small communities. It may change your mind if you have any
  > good thoughts about the benefits of their being here.
  >
  > My final thoughts on it's opening are to invite everyone to look into the
  > WalMart operation before you buy, and SHOP WITH YOUR CONSCIENCE, NOT YOUR
  > WALLET. Don't shop there, I know I won't.
  >
  > jimz
  >
  > On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 10:22 AM, Debra Bratland <debbratland at gmail.com<mailto:debbratland at gmail.com>
  > >wrote:
  >
  > > I'm with you, Holly.  I'm not philosophically opposed to Walmart being
  > here
  > > - but the traffic situation is what irks me.  Cornelius will reap the
  > > benefits, but FG commuters will pay a heavy price, I fear.  Poor planning
  > > with little regard for FG residents.
  > >
  > > I am curious about something, though.  I hear people say that Walmart is
  > > going to hurt local businesses, and I've always wondered what that means.
  > > What kinds of products will people buy at Walmart instead of at "local"
  > > businesses?  I suppose that depends on what you think of as "local".
  > >
  > > If you're talking about local specialty stores, I wonder if Walmart will
  > > really cut into their business?  I'm thinking that people with limited
  > > resources generally don't buy at local specialty shops anyway, and that
  > > people who already buy at those shops won't abandon them for Walmart
  > > products.  For example, it doesn't seem to me that people who shop at
  > Let's
  > > Play (Hillsboro) for toys will suddenly switch their business to Walmart.
  > >  I
  > > don't think that people who shop at the FG Farmer's Market will go to
  > > Walmart on Wednesday evening instead of to the Farmer's Market.  I would
  > > think that Frye's would be pretty safe - again, because of their
  > expertise
  > > and inventory.
  > >
  > > If you're talking about Fred Meyer, Safeway, and BiMart (my favorite
  > > general
  > > store in FG), then I suppose there will be some shift in where people
  > buy.
  > > But I guess I don't think of those stores as "local businesses", other
  > than
  > > that they've been around for awhile.  Our Ace Hardware is "local", but
  > > again, I don't think Walmart can compete with Ace's expertise or
  > inventory.
  > >
  > > My dad works for a locally-owned grocery store in South Dakota.  When
  > > Walmart moved to town, the owner worried about a loss of business.  He
  > did
  > > lose business - but it was only about 2%.  His customer base stayed
  > loyal,
  > > he reinvigorated his customer service, he expanded his catering service,
  > > and
  > > in the end his store hasn't suffered.
  > >
  > > Anyway, I'm curious as to what other people think, and wondering what I'm
  > > missing in my thought processes.  I know that I won't frequent Walmart
  > > except when my son wants to buy video games (something he currently buys
  > at
  > > Fred Meyer), because having been in Walmarts across the country -  from
  > > Alaska to Texas - I just don't like their huge stores with their huge
  > > partking lots.
  > >
  > > By the way, I don't remember people being concerned about losses to local
  > > businesses when Costco came to Hillsboro.  I may not have been paying
  > > attention, as I live in FG.  Did I miss that, or was it never an issue?
  > >
  > > Deb Bratland
  > >
  > >
  > > On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Holly Di <redhead854 at msn.com<mailto:redhead854 at msn.com>> wrote:
  > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > > Sorry for the bad punctuation and grammar on my first message.  I sent
  > it
  > > > from my phone. The store opens tomorrow.
  > > >
  > > > The way the sign reads Walmart traffic is suppose to use the left lane
  > > when
  > > > you are going East twords Cornelius
  > > > from Forest Grove.  I am thinking that they are estimating that that
  > lane
  > > > will be complete back up (hence the sign is near Ace Hardware)
  > > > as people try to turn Left at the light.  If they are planning that why
  > > did
  > > > they not pave an additional  TURN LEFT only lane????  As both lanes of
  > > > travel going straight are needed ??  What are they thinking ??
  > > >
  > > > Same thing going West.  the Reader sign is near Fred Meyers, telling
  > > > Walmart shoppers to stay in the right lane?  When I travel thru town in
  > > rush
  > > > hour
  > > > I use the right  lane through that area because the left lane is full
  > of
  > > > people who turn left slowly,,, or suddenly decide they have to go to
  > 7-11
  > > or
  > > > the bank.
  > > >
  > > >
  > > > The sign placement tells me that they think that there will be quite a
  > > back
  > > > up,,, If they think it will cause that much of an issue, why isn't
  > there
  > > > more lanes, more
  > > > of everything.  not just a READER Board "Thru traffic use this
  > > > lane,,,,Walmart Traffic use this lane" . I have to think that they
  > > believe
  > > > the traffic is going to be
  > > > backed up significantly because if not they are  insulting our
  > > intelligence
  > > > Like we would just continue driving in whatever lane and dive across
  > and
  > > > turn left at
  > > > random.
  > > >
  > > > Yes I am not looking forward to the additional traffic clogging up
  > > > Cornelius.  I will probably avoid traveling through there all together,
  > >  I
  > > > wont stop at the
  > > > local business and purchase stuff on my way home, I will take back
  > roads
  > > > from Hillsboro to get home.  Yet another affect that Cornelius
  > business'
  > > > will feel from  the lack
  > > > of planning for traffic with Walmart.
  > > >
  > > > I dont feel anti walmart, I am feeling anti City of Cornelius.  They
  > need
  > > > to set their traffic lights like Hillsboro, so you stop once and flow
  > > thru
  > > > at 30mph.
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > > > From: g-g-steele at comcast.net<mailto:g-g-steele at comcast.net>
  > > > > To: grovenet at rdrop.com<mailto:grovenet at rdrop.com>
  > > > > Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 08:21:44 -0700
  > > > > Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
  > > > >
  > > > > Yes, indeed. Everyone start scouting all alternate routes now!
  > > > >
  > > > > Used to take me about 6-8 minutes to get from Gales Creek Rd. near
  > > > Thatcher,
  > > > > to Cornelius....  Aah, the 'old' days, lol!  But it's been quite a
  > > while
  > > > > since it took anything less than twice that.  And now it'll be worse.
  > >  On
  > > > > the other hand, I really hope this does for Cornelius what they want
  > --
  > > > > without damaging F.G.!
  > > > >
  > > > > Geri
  > > > >
  > > > > --------------------------------------------------
  > > > > From: "Walt Wentz" <waltw at teleport.com<mailto:waltw at teleport.com>>
  > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 8:10 AM
  > > > > To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com<mailto:grovenet at rdrop.com>>
  > > > > Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
  > > > >
  > > > > > I've been driving the route the past couple of days, and traffic
  > > > > > seems a little heavier both going and coming. I suspect that as
  > more
  > > > > > people "discover" the new store, traffic will get progressively
  > worse
  > > > > > even as local businesses struggle harder.
  > > > > > WW
  > > > > > On Aug 16, 2010, at 10:32 PM, donkelly wrote:
  > > > > >
  > > > > >> Seemed to be working find today. I took the outside land because I
  > > > > >> was going home, not to Walmart. Did it open today or something?
  > > > > >>
  > > > > >> don
  > > > > >>
  > > > > >> ----- Original Message -----
  > > > > >> From: David Morelli <jo.david at verizon.net<mailto:jo.david at verizon.net>>
  > > > > >> To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com<mailto:grovenet at rdrop.com>>
  > > > > >> Sent: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 05:26:33 -0000 (UTC)
  > > > > >> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
  > > > > >>
  > > > > >> Question, what is the purpose for the new road next to Neal
  > > > > >> Armstrong?  Who paid for the work?
  > > > > >>
  > > > > >> David
  > > > > >>
  > > > > >> On Aug 16, 2010, at 4:40 PM, Holly Di wrote:
  > > > > >>
  > > > > >>>
  > > > > >>> I just called city of Cornelius and asked what are they going to
  > do
  > > > > >>> besides pit up reader boards telling us what lane to use If we
  > are
  > > > > >>> through traffic on eachside of the city?
  > > > > >>>
  > > > > >>> I left voicemail for mr oppenheimer or something close to that. I
  > > say
  > > > > >>> we all call and tell them that is not enough
  > > > > >>>
  > > > > >>> (503) 357-3011
  > > > > >>>  Cornelius planning
  > > > > >>>
  > > > > >>>
  > > > > >>> _______________________________________________
  > > > > >>> GroveNet mailing list
  > > > > >>> GroveNet at rdrop.com<mailto:GroveNet at rdrop.com>
  > > > > >>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet<http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet>
  > > > > >>
  > > > > >>
  > > > > >>
  > > > > >> _______________________________________________
  > > > > >> GroveNet mailing list
  > > > > >> GroveNet at rdrop.com<mailto:GroveNet at rdrop.com>
  > > > > >> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet<http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet>
  > > > > >>
  > > > > >>
  > > > > >> _______________________________________________
  > > > > >> GroveNet mailing list
  > > > > >> GroveNet at rdrop.com<mailto:GroveNet at rdrop.com>
  > > > > >> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet<http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet>
  > > > > >
  > > > > >
  > > > > > _______________________________________________
  > > > > > GroveNet mailing list
  > > > > > GroveNet at rdrop.com<mailto:GroveNet at rdrop.com>
  > > > > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet<http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet>
  > > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > > _______________________________________________
  > > > > GroveNet mailing list
  > > > > GroveNet at rdrop.com<mailto:GroveNet at rdrop.com>
  > > > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet<http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet>
  > > >
  > > > _______________________________________________
  > > > GroveNet mailing list
  > > > GroveNet at rdrop.com<mailto:GroveNet at rdrop.com>
  > > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet<http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet>
  > > >
  > > _______________________________________________
  > > GroveNet mailing list
  > > GroveNet at rdrop.com<mailto:GroveNet at rdrop.com>
  > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet<http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet>
  > >
  > _______________________________________________
  > GroveNet mailing list
  > GroveNet at rdrop.com<mailto:GroveNet at rdrop.com>
  > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet<http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet>
  >
  _______________________________________________
  GroveNet mailing list
  GroveNet at rdrop.com<mailto:GroveNet at rdrop.com>
  http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet<http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet>

From kathyayala at msn.com  Tue Aug 17 12:57:00 2010
From: kathyayala at msn.com (Kathy Ayala)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 12:57:00 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Walmart Questions
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTim60We1GDnTE1pMSEqKzShaHz44Z5ycD3q248U+@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=D+RPO3RrsnLJsyhVh-DAJeAYbvFi1=MCtYfGP@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTim60We1GDnTE1pMSEqKzShaHz44Z5ycD3q248U+@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=D+RPO3RrsnLJsyhVh-DAJeAYbvFi1=MCtYfGP@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU133-DS1440EE4F6D7236863C01B4DE9C0@phx.gbl>

One more note regarding Nike, they pay very little taxes also and get lots of tax brakes from Oregon for having there company here. But they keep a large portion on there holding over sea's  on foreign lands to keep from paying taxes.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jim Zaleski<mailto:jimzzz42 at gmail.com> 
  To: Forest Grove local interests list<mailto:grovenet at rdrop.com> 
  Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 12:15 PM
  Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Walmart Questions


  Now here's a little sample of WalMart working hard to avoid paying taxes to
  Oregon. Totally irresponsible, and the lowest form of corporate
  profiteering. And some people say they are good for the economy. Just crooks
  is corporate clothing raiding clean energy coffers for their own profit at
  our expense.

  http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2009/12/walmart_others_make_money_on_o.html<http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2009/12/walmart_others_make_money_on_o.html>

  jimz

  PS: I'm not naive enough to think that any of the controversies surrounding
  WalMart will hurt their profit margin, it's not going to happen. As long as
  they save people money, they will succeed. All the controversies be damned,
  the almighty dollar is the power and the glory, the American dream. And the
  lure to save a buck (especially in these times) is almost impossible to
  ignore. When you pass by the store, that giant sucking sound you will hear
  will be the WalMart machine sucking the local economy dry. A WalMart
  wasteland will be the ultimate result of their efforts to dominate local
  markets. A sad commentary of our times. And should there come day when
  Cornelius officials will be looking at the sorry WalMart-state of their
  economy, they'll probably just shake their heads and say, "We just didn't
  seeing it coming". As the old saying goes, "you get what you pay for," in
  this instance, Cornelius really didn't pay for anything, and that's exactly
  what they'll get in return - nothing.



  On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 10:22 AM, Debra Bratland <debbratland at gmail.com>wrote<mailto:debbratland at gmail.com%3Ewrote>:

  > I'm with you, Holly.  I'm not philosophically opposed to Walmart being here
  > - but the traffic situation is what irks me.  Cornelius will reap the
  > benefits, but FG commuters will pay a heavy price, I fear.  Poor planning
  > with little regard for FG residents.
  >
  > I am curious about something, though.  I hear people say that Walmart is
  > going to hurt local businesses, and I've always wondered what that means.
  > What kinds of products will people buy at Walmart instead of at "local"
  > businesses?  I suppose that depends on what you think of as "local".
  >
  > If you're talking about local specialty stores, I wonder if Walmart will
  > really cut into their business?  I'm thinking that people with limited
  > resources generally don't buy at local specialty shops anyway, and that
  > people who already buy at those shops won't abandon them for Walmart
  > products.  For example, it doesn't seem to me that people who shop at Let's
  > Play (Hillsboro) for toys will suddenly switch their business to Walmart.
  >  I
  > don't think that people who shop at the FG Farmer's Market will go to
  > Walmart on Wednesday evening instead of to the Farmer's Market.  I would
  > think that Frye's would be pretty safe - again, because of their expertise
  > and inventory.
  >
  > If you're talking about Fred Meyer, Safeway, and BiMart (my favorite
  > general
  > store in FG), then I suppose there will be some shift in where people buy.
  > But I guess I don't think of those stores as "local businesses", other than
  > that they've been around for awhile.  Our Ace Hardware is "local", but
  > again, I don't think Walmart can compete with Ace's expertise or inventory.
  >
  > My dad works for a locally-owned grocery store in South Dakota.  When
  > Walmart moved to town, the owner worried about a loss of business.  He did
  > lose business - but it was only about 2%.  His customer base stayed loyal,
  > he reinvigorated his customer service, he expanded his catering service,
  > and
  > in the end his store hasn't suffered.
  >
  > Anyway, I'm curious as to what other people think, and wondering what I'm
  > missing in my thought processes.  I know that I won't frequent Walmart
  > except when my son wants to buy video games (something he currently buys at
  > Fred Meyer), because having been in Walmarts across the country -  from
  > Alaska to Texas - I just don't like their huge stores with their huge
  > partking lots.
  >
  > By the way, I don't remember people being concerned about losses to local
  > businesses when Costco came to Hillsboro.  I may not have been paying
  > attention, as I live in FG.  Did I miss that, or was it never an issue?
  >
  > Deb Bratland
  >
  >
  > On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Holly Di <redhead854 at msn.com<mailto:redhead854 at msn.com>> wrote:
  >
  > >
  > >
  > > Sorry for the bad punctuation and grammar on my first message.  I sent it
  > > from my phone. The store opens tomorrow.
  > >
  > > The way the sign reads Walmart traffic is suppose to use the left lane
  > when
  > > you are going East twords Cornelius
  > > from Forest Grove.  I am thinking that they are estimating that that lane
  > > will be complete back up (hence the sign is near Ace Hardware)
  > > as people try to turn Left at the light.  If they are planning that why
  > did
  > > they not pave an additional  TURN LEFT only lane????  As both lanes of
  > > travel going straight are needed ??  What are they thinking ??
  > >
  > > Same thing going West.  the Reader sign is near Fred Meyers, telling
  > > Walmart shoppers to stay in the right lane?  When I travel thru town in
  > rush
  > > hour
  > > I use the right  lane through that area because the left lane is full of
  > > people who turn left slowly,,, or suddenly decide they have to go to 7-11
  > or
  > > the bank.
  > >
  > >
  > > The sign placement tells me that they think that there will be quite a
  > back
  > > up,,, If they think it will cause that much of an issue, why isn't there
  > > more lanes, more
  > > of everything.  not just a READER Board "Thru traffic use this
  > > lane,,,,Walmart Traffic use this lane" . I have to think that they
  > believe
  > > the traffic is going to be
  > > backed up significantly because if not they are  insulting our
  > intelligence
  > > Like we would just continue driving in whatever lane and dive across and
  > > turn left at
  > > random.
  > >
  > > Yes I am not looking forward to the additional traffic clogging up
  > > Cornelius.  I will probably avoid traveling through there all together,
  >  I
  > > wont stop at the
  > > local business and purchase stuff on my way home, I will take back roads
  > > from Hillsboro to get home.  Yet another affect that Cornelius business'
  > > will feel from  the lack
  > > of planning for traffic with Walmart.
  > >
  > > I dont feel anti walmart, I am feeling anti City of Cornelius.  They need
  > > to set their traffic lights like Hillsboro, so you stop once and flow
  > thru
  > > at 30mph.
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > > > From: g-g-steele at comcast.net<mailto:g-g-steele at comcast.net>
  > > > To: grovenet at rdrop.com<mailto:grovenet at rdrop.com>
  > > > Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 08:21:44 -0700
  > > > Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
  > > >
  > > > Yes, indeed. Everyone start scouting all alternate routes now!
  > > >
  > > > Used to take me about 6-8 minutes to get from Gales Creek Rd. near
  > > Thatcher,
  > > > to Cornelius....  Aah, the 'old' days, lol!  But it's been quite a
  > while
  > > > since it took anything less than twice that.  And now it'll be worse.
  >  On
  > > > the other hand, I really hope this does for Cornelius what they want --
  > > > without damaging F.G.!
  > > >
  > > > Geri
  > > >
  > > > --------------------------------------------------
  > > > From: "Walt Wentz" <waltw at teleport.com<mailto:waltw at teleport.com>>
  > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 8:10 AM
  > > > To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com<mailto:grovenet at rdrop.com>>
  > > > Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
  > > >
  > > > > I've been driving the route the past couple of days, and traffic
  > > > > seems a little heavier both going and coming. I suspect that as more
  > > > > people "discover" the new store, traffic will get progressively worse
  > > > > even as local businesses struggle harder.
  > > > > WW
  > > > > On Aug 16, 2010, at 10:32 PM, donkelly wrote:
  > > > >
  > > > >> Seemed to be working find today. I took the outside land because I
  > > > >> was going home, not to Walmart. Did it open today or something?
  > > > >>
  > > > >> don
  > > > >>
  > > > >> ----- Original Message -----
  > > > >> From: David Morelli <jo.david at verizon.net<mailto:jo.david at verizon.net>>
  > > > >> To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com<mailto:grovenet at rdrop.com>>
  > > > >> Sent: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 05:26:33 -0000 (UTC)
  > > > >> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
  > > > >>
  > > > >> Question, what is the purpose for the new road next to Neal
  > > > >> Armstrong?  Who paid for the work?
  > > > >>
  > > > >> David
  > > > >>
  > > > >> On Aug 16, 2010, at 4:40 PM, Holly Di wrote:
  > > > >>
  > > > >>>
  > > > >>> I just called city of Cornelius and asked what are they going to do
  > > > >>> besides pit up reader boards telling us what lane to use If we are
  > > > >>> through traffic on eachside of the city?
  > > > >>>
  > > > >>> I left voicemail for mr oppenheimer or something close to that. I
  > say
  > > > >>> we all call and tell them that is not enough
  > > > >>>
  > > > >>> (503) 357-3011
  > > > >>>  Cornelius planning
  > > > >>>
  > > > >>>
  > > > >>> _______________________________________________
  > > > >>> GroveNet mailing list
  > > > >>> GroveNet at rdrop.com<mailto:GroveNet at rdrop.com>
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  > > > >>
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  > > > >> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet<http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet>
  > > > >
  > > > >
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From jimzzz42 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 17 12:59:57 2010
From: jimzzz42 at gmail.com (Jim Zaleski)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 12:59:57 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Walmart Questions
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimXxev7j069hTiO5wNCmd3Aj6mgqr+HEwwcf9p5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTim60We1GDnTE1pMSEqKzShaHz44Z5ycD3q248U+@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinzK7mcFaKyHZ0KhfFOoe1ds70mvLG9yCf_hkue@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimXxev7j069hTiO5wNCmd3Aj6mgqr+HEwwcf9p5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimLGSN7CkuRivWTRn+ZtCiapqC8pB+Qh4-uFkR0@mail.gmail.com>

Debra,

I'm certainly no expert on the subject. I just followed the story like
everyone else. I have no idea what the financial situation is there, and
yes, it was a good example of an established local market trying to adjust.
I hope their change will succeed. But remembering the comments from the
store's owners when they were going through this process, it was indeed a
desperate end run to avoid being crushed by WalMart. We'll have to wait and
see how WalMart responds to the Hispanic consumer base in this area. It's
likely they will also cater to their special needs, especially in the
grocery section, and that could have a significant impact on Grande.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong and that the doomsday-esk tone of my message is
totally off base. That would be my wish. It's just that WalMart has a
reputation for riding roughshod over communities and bullying their way
around to get what they want. I just feel passionate about this area and
don't want it dominated by a corporate giant that has no ties and no civic
pride or responsibilities to make our hometown a better place.

There will be many of us watching from the sidelines as this plays out.
Again, I hope I'm wrong.

jimz

PS: Your reference to Nike is well deserved. They, like many giant
corporations, earn huge profits off the backs of low paid labor in third
world countries. Unlike WalMart however, you don't see Nike selling shoes
for less, because they were made cheaply in Asia. If many of these companies
reversed their trend to outsource production in foreign lands, it would do
wonders to our own economy by putting American workers back to working
making American products. Wow, what a concept!  : -)



On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 12:28 PM, Debra Bratland <debbratland at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi Jim -
>
> And if you missed the story behind the switch from Hank's
> Thirftway in Cornelius to Grande Foods, you probably don't have sufficient
> insights into the destructiveness of a WalMart moving into town to make a
> decision one way or the other.
>
> You are obviously an expert on this subject and have looked at all sides
> carefully.  I have issues about which I feel as passionately as you do
> about
> this one, and I know it's hard when people don't see what I see.  So I
> understand the frustration that your email illustrated.  But for me, it's
> important to ask questions based on my personal thoughts and observations.
> Please be tolerant.
>
> No, Jim, I did not miss the Hanks/Grande story, but I also have read in the
> local newspaper that, having made the switch, Grande hopes/believes that
> Walmart will actually increase its business by bringing more people into
> the
> community who will shop at Grande for products that are hard to find
> elsewhere.  And personally, I see Grande as an addition to our community -
> even though it came at the demise of our local Hanks (same owners though)
> for fear that it would lose out to Walmart.  I think Grande's a great
> example of a business adjusting to a change and I hope they experience
> continued success.  Perhaps, Jim, you have knowledge about Grande's
> financial health that I don't have, and perhaps Grande is desperate.  My
> personal story - which I realize doesn't fit into your beliefs about
> Walmart
> - was about a locally owned grocery store (very similar to Hanks)  that
> didn't bite the dust when Walmart came to town.  It remains, a decade
> post-Walmart, a very viable store.
>
> I, too, worry about BiMart and the impact it might have, and I have
> wondered
> how much Ace depends on little everyday things that can be bought
> elsewhere.  However, if Ace does depend on that type of product,
> wouldn't Ace have been done in already by Fred Meyer?  I guess I don't see
> Walmart as being substantially different than Fred Meyer in terms of the
> kinds of products that it sells.
>
> You say that the days of the other local shops around here are numbered.
> I'll ask you - specifically what shops?  As to Fred Meyer, as I said
> before,
> it's not really "local".  (Though should it go under, I'll miss it.)
>
> Holly - I saw that documentary too, and was very unhappy about what it
> presented.  But I guess I think that other businesses are also guilty of
> looking for cheap products produced overseas.  Nike, anyone?  Perhaps
> Walmart got the ball rolling ... ?  Would it have happened anyway?
>
> At any rate, as I said, I won't frequent Walmart because I don't
> like shopping there.  And I'm unhappy about the traffic.  It will be a
> mess.
>
> Deb Bratland
> On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 11:02 AM, Jim Zaleski <jimzzz42 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Debra,
> >
> > The dark side of Walmart is too involved to address here, but they have a
> > legacy of destructive practices when it comes to local businesses; their
> > community relations are abysmal; they treat their employee poorly; they
> > offer little benefits; they outsource nearly everything from China; they
> > have no qualms about putting every mom and pop operation out of business;
> > they don't care about you or me, they care about profit. And the traffic
> > situation they will create? They could care less, it's the city's problem
> > after all. And if you missed the story behind the switch from Hank's
> > Thirftway in Cornelius to Grande Foods, you probably don't have
> sufficient
> > insights into the destructiveness of a WalMart moving into town to make a
> > decision one way or the other. I just encourage you to look into it.
> Grande
> > Foods is a desperate attempt to stave off the effects of WalMart on an
> > established local business, and to remain alive and competitive. Despite
> > their valiant effort however, I don't know if they will be able to hold
> > their own against this retail juggernaut.
> >
> > There is a good reason why there is almost always an organized opposition
> > to
> > a WalMart moving into towns and cities throughout the country. Sometimes
> > the
> > opposition wins, ours was not so successful.
> >
> > I figure we will probably see the demise of Fred Meyer, because it's
> always
> > been a marginal operation here. I just don't think FM will put up much of
> a
> > fight. As for Bi-Mart, I'm not sure what will happen to them. They are
> also
> > my favorite local store, but they too must face the giant the the east,
> and
> > if profits begin to dwindle,  then maybe they too will pull up stakes and
> > move on. Ace Hardware? They may stay alive because they carry so many
> items
> > found no where else, however, should their business drop off
> significantly
> > because the people who used to go there for 'common' everyday items,
> decide
> > just to pick them up at WalMart, then you may see them fold as well. I
> hope
> > not, but then I don't know how well Ace is doing now and whether they can
> > withstand a decrease in business for long. And as far as the small retail
> > shops in the immediate vicinity of the store, they're days,
> unfortunately,
> > are numbered.
> >
> > Despite all the hype, WalMart is *not* good for the community, and they
> > will
> > wind up taking more away from the community than they put into it. The
> > problem with traffic will soon be eclipsed by their affect on local
> > businesses. Just Google "WalMart and Local Competition," to get an idea
> of
> > their impact on small communities. It may change your mind if you have
> any
> > good thoughts about the benefits of their being here.
> >
> > My final thoughts on it's opening are to invite everyone to look into the
> > WalMart operation before you buy, and SHOP WITH YOUR CONSCIENCE, NOT YOUR
> > WALLET. Don't shop there, I know I won't.
> >
> > jimz
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 10:22 AM, Debra Bratland <debbratland at gmail.com
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > I'm with you, Holly.  I'm not philosophically opposed to Walmart being
> > here
> > > - but the traffic situation is what irks me.  Cornelius will reap the
> > > benefits, but FG commuters will pay a heavy price, I fear.  Poor
> planning
> > > with little regard for FG residents.
> > >
> > > I am curious about something, though.  I hear people say that Walmart
> is
> > > going to hurt local businesses, and I've always wondered what that
> means.
> > > What kinds of products will people buy at Walmart instead of at "local"
> > > businesses?  I suppose that depends on what you think of as "local".
> > >
> > > If you're talking about local specialty stores, I wonder if Walmart
> will
> > > really cut into their business?  I'm thinking that people with limited
> > > resources generally don't buy at local specialty shops anyway, and that
> > > people who already buy at those shops won't abandon them for Walmart
> > > products.  For example, it doesn't seem to me that people who shop at
> > Let's
> > > Play (Hillsboro) for toys will suddenly switch their business to
> Walmart.
> > >  I
> > > don't think that people who shop at the FG Farmer's Market will go to
> > > Walmart on Wednesday evening instead of to the Farmer's Market.  I
> would
> > > think that Frye's would be pretty safe - again, because of their
> > expertise
> > > and inventory.
> > >
> > > If you're talking about Fred Meyer, Safeway, and BiMart (my favorite
> > > general
> > > store in FG), then I suppose there will be some shift in where people
> > buy.
> > > But I guess I don't think of those stores as "local businesses", other
> > than
> > > that they've been around for awhile.  Our Ace Hardware is "local", but
> > > again, I don't think Walmart can compete with Ace's expertise or
> > inventory.
> > >
> > > My dad works for a locally-owned grocery store in South Dakota.  When
> > > Walmart moved to town, the owner worried about a loss of business.  He
> > did
> > > lose business - but it was only about 2%.  His customer base stayed
> > loyal,
> > > he reinvigorated his customer service, he expanded his catering
> service,
> > > and
> > > in the end his store hasn't suffered.
> > >
> > > Anyway, I'm curious as to what other people think, and wondering what
> I'm
> > > missing in my thought processes.  I know that I won't frequent Walmart
> > > except when my son wants to buy video games (something he currently
> buys
> > at
> > > Fred Meyer), because having been in Walmarts across the country -  from
> > > Alaska to Texas - I just don't like their huge stores with their huge
> > > partking lots.
> > >
> > > By the way, I don't remember people being concerned about losses to
> local
> > > businesses when Costco came to Hillsboro.  I may not have been paying
> > > attention, as I live in FG.  Did I miss that, or was it never an issue?
> > >
> > > Deb Bratland
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Holly Di <redhead854 at msn.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Sorry for the bad punctuation and grammar on my first message.  I
> sent
> > it
> > > > from my phone. The store opens tomorrow.
> > > >
> > > > The way the sign reads Walmart traffic is suppose to use the left
> lane
> > > when
> > > > you are going East twords Cornelius
> > > > from Forest Grove.  I am thinking that they are estimating that that
> > lane
> > > > will be complete back up (hence the sign is near Ace Hardware)
> > > > as people try to turn Left at the light.  If they are planning that
> why
> > > did
> > > > they not pave an additional  TURN LEFT only lane????  As both lanes
> of
> > > > travel going straight are needed ??  What are they thinking ??
> > > >
> > > > Same thing going West.  the Reader sign is near Fred Meyers, telling
> > > > Walmart shoppers to stay in the right lane?  When I travel thru town
> in
> > > rush
> > > > hour
> > > > I use the right  lane through that area because the left lane is full
> > of
> > > > people who turn left slowly,,, or suddenly decide they have to go to
> > 7-11
> > > or
> > > > the bank.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The sign placement tells me that they think that there will be quite
> a
> > > back
> > > > up,,, If they think it will cause that much of an issue, why isn't
> > there
> > > > more lanes, more
> > > > of everything.  not just a READER Board "Thru traffic use this
> > > > lane,,,,Walmart Traffic use this lane" . I have to think that they
> > > believe
> > > > the traffic is going to be
> > > > backed up significantly because if not they are  insulting our
> > > intelligence
> > > > Like we would just continue driving in whatever lane and dive across
> > and
> > > > turn left at
> > > > random.
> > > >
> > > > Yes I am not looking forward to the additional traffic clogging up
> > > > Cornelius.  I will probably avoid traveling through there all
> together,
> > >  I
> > > > wont stop at the
> > > > local business and purchase stuff on my way home, I will take back
> > roads
> > > > from Hillsboro to get home.  Yet another affect that Cornelius
> > business'
> > > > will feel from  the lack
> > > > of planning for traffic with Walmart.
> > > >
> > > > I dont feel anti walmart, I am feeling anti City of Cornelius.  They
> > need
> > > > to set their traffic lights like Hillsboro, so you stop once and flow
> > > thru
> > > > at 30mph.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > From: g-g-steele at comcast.net
> > > > > To: grovenet at rdrop.com
> > > > > Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 08:21:44 -0700
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, indeed. Everyone start scouting all alternate routes now!
> > > > >
> > > > > Used to take me about 6-8 minutes to get from Gales Creek Rd. near
> > > > Thatcher,
> > > > > to Cornelius....  Aah, the 'old' days, lol!  But it's been quite a
> > > while
> > > > > since it took anything less than twice that.  And now it'll be
> worse.
> > >  On
> > > > > the other hand, I really hope this does for Cornelius what they
> want
> > --
> > > > > without damaging F.G.!
> > > > >
> > > > > Geri
> > > > >
> > > > > --------------------------------------------------
> > > > > From: "Walt Wentz" <waltw at teleport.com>
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 8:10 AM
> > > > > To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
> > > > >
> > > > > > I've been driving the route the past couple of days, and traffic
> > > > > > seems a little heavier both going and coming. I suspect that as
> > more
> > > > > > people "discover" the new store, traffic will get progressively
> > worse
> > > > > > even as local businesses struggle harder.
> > > > > > WW
> > > > > > On Aug 16, 2010, at 10:32 PM, donkelly wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> Seemed to be working find today. I took the outside land because
> I
> > > > > >> was going home, not to Walmart. Did it open today or something?
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> don
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > >> From: David Morelli <jo.david at verizon.net>
> > > > > >> To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> > > > > >> Sent: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 05:26:33 -0000 (UTC)
> > > > > >> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and
> asked
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Question, what is the purpose for the new road next to Neal
> > > > > >> Armstrong?  Who paid for the work?
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> David
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> On Aug 16, 2010, at 4:40 PM, Holly Di wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> I just called city of Cornelius and asked what are they going
> to
> > do
> > > > > >>> besides pit up reader boards telling us what lane to use If we
> > are
> > > > > >>> through traffic on eachside of the city?
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> I left voicemail for mr oppenheimer or something close to that.
> I
> > > say
> > > > > >>> we all call and tell them that is not enough
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> (503) 357-3011
> > > > > >>>  Cornelius planning
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> _______________________________________________
> > > > > >>> GroveNet mailing list
> > > > > >>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > > > > >>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > > >> GroveNet mailing list
> > > > > >> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > > > > >> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > > >> GroveNet mailing list
> > > > > >> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > > > > >> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > GroveNet mailing list
> > > > > > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > > > > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > GroveNet mailing list
> > > > > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > > > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > GroveNet mailing list
> > > > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GroveNet mailing list
> > > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GroveNet mailing list
> > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>

From admin at jeffhowden.com  Tue Aug 17 13:03:13 2010
From: admin at jeffhowden.com (Jeff Howden)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 13:03:13 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Walmart Questions
In-Reply-To: <BLU133-DS1440EE4F6D7236863C01B4DE9C0@phx.gbl>
References: <AANLkTim60We1GDnTE1pMSEqKzShaHz44Z5ycD3q248U+@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=D+RPO3RrsnLJsyhVh-DAJeAYbvFi1=MCtYfGP@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU133-DS1440EE4F6D7236863C01B4DE9C0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <00a501cb3e47$3aa8c410$affa4c30$@com>

Kathy,

> From: Kathy Ayala
> 
> One more note regarding Nike, they pay very little
> taxes also and get lots of tax brakes from Oregon for
> having there company here. [...]

Yes, like any large company will do, they've negotiated very favorable tax
incentives for being headquartered in Oregon.

While I feel that they should probably pay more of their fair share, it is
important to understand that those tax expenses will just get passed on to
consumers.

Jeff



From admin at jeffhowden.com  Tue Aug 17 13:03:13 2010
From: admin at jeffhowden.com (Jeff Howden)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 13:03:13 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Walmart Questions
In-Reply-To: <BLU133-DS7B50DD5EAD05EC1B77D08DE9C0@phx.gbl>
References: <AANLkTim60We1GDnTE1pMSEqKzShaHz44Z5ycD3q248U+@mail.gmail.com><AANLkTinzK7mcFaKyHZ0KhfFOoe1ds70mvLG9yCf_hkue@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimXxev7j069hTiO5wNCmd3Aj6mgqr+HEwwcf9p5@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU133-DS7B50DD5EAD05EC1B77D08DE9C0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <00a801cb3e47$3c281110$b4783330$@com>

Kathy,

> From: Kathy Ayala
> 
> Please remember that Nike has all there product made
> over sea's [...]

Having worked for Nike, I can attest that this statement is not true.  In
Beaverton is an air sole factory (or there used to be) where there were
workers making air soles around the clock.

> They employee a few people here in Oregon but [...]

This is also not true.  Nike employs approximately 7,000 people in Oregon
alone.  There are another 7,000 working in the other 49 states.  An
additional 16,000 are employed directly by Nike around the world and
somewhere in the neighborhood of 650,000 employed by companies that are
contracted by Nike.

The 7,000 employees in Oregon are, no doubt, the highest paid segment of
Nike's employees.  That results in a significant tax benefit to the state, a
significant consumer benefit to local businesses, and helps pay for numerous
other local jobs.

Here's more info:

http://nyjobsource.com/nike.html

Jeff



From kathyayala at msn.com  Tue Aug 17 13:18:11 2010
From: kathyayala at msn.com (Kathy Ayala)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 13:18:11 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Walmart Questions
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTim60We1GDnTE1pMSEqKzShaHz44Z5ycD3q248U+@mail.gmail.com><AANLkTinzK7mcFaKyHZ0KhfFOoe1ds70mvLG9yCf_hkue@mail.gmail.com><AANLkTimXxev7j069hTiO5wNCmd3Aj6mgqr+HEwwcf9p5@mail.gmail.com><BLU133-DS7B50DD5EAD05EC1B77D08DE9C0@phx.gbl>
	<00a801cb3e47$3c281110$b4783330$@com>
References: <AANLkTim60We1GDnTE1pMSEqKzShaHz44Z5ycD3q248U+@mail.gmail.com><AANLkTinzK7mcFaKyHZ0KhfFOoe1ds70mvLG9yCf_hkue@mail.gmail.com><AANLkTimXxev7j069hTiO5wNCmd3Aj6mgqr+HEwwcf9p5@mail.gmail.com><BLU133-DS7B50DD5EAD05EC1B77D08DE9C0@phx.gbl>
	<00a801cb3e47$3c281110$b4783330$@com>
Message-ID: <BLU133-DS1579BCBC5A84C384E7EB10DE9C0@phx.gbl>

Jeff I have also worked for Nike, they are moving the air sole factory over seas and only keeping a small portion here in Oregon. Yes they do employee the people on campus and many other. I was just trying to point out that Nike is really no different then Wal-Mart and how they both operate. 

Most of Nikes product are made over seas only a small portion are here, (the air sole are made here and shipped over seas for the shoes) same as Wal-Mart. I am sure that both of these company as do most big company get very big tax brakes so that they will operate in a certain location. I have plenty of Nike product and am a fan, just trying to point out that most big company's are the same in how they operate, pay taxes and get product they use/sell, and have a wide range of employees all over the world.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jeff Howden<mailto:admin at jeffhowden.com> 
  To: 'Forest Grove local interests list'<mailto:grovenet at rdrop.com> 
  Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 1:03 PM
  Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Walmart Questions


  Kathy,

  > From: Kathy Ayala
  > 
  > Please remember that Nike has all there product made
  > over sea's [...]

  Having worked for Nike, I can attest that this statement is not true.  In
  Beaverton is an air sole factory (or there used to be) where there were
  workers making air soles around the clock.

  > They employee a few people here in Oregon but [...]

  This is also not true.  Nike employs approximately 7,000 people in Oregon
  alone.  There are another 7,000 working in the other 49 states.  An
  additional 16,000 are employed directly by Nike around the world and
  somewhere in the neighborhood of 650,000 employed by companies that are
  contracted by Nike.

  The 7,000 employees in Oregon are, no doubt, the highest paid segment of
  Nike's employees.  That results in a significant tax benefit to the state, a
  significant consumer benefit to local businesses, and helps pay for numerous
  other local jobs.

  Here's more info:

  http://nyjobsource.com/nike.html<http://nyjobsource.com/nike.html>

  Jeff


  _______________________________________________
  GroveNet mailing list
  GroveNet at rdrop.com<mailto:GroveNet at rdrop.com>
  http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet<http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet>

From jimzzz42 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 17 13:34:01 2010
From: jimzzz42 at gmail.com (Jim Zaleski)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 13:34:01 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Walmart Questions
In-Reply-To: <00a801cb3e47$3c281110$b4783330$@com>
References: <AANLkTim60We1GDnTE1pMSEqKzShaHz44Z5ycD3q248U+@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinzK7mcFaKyHZ0KhfFOoe1ds70mvLG9yCf_hkue@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimXxev7j069hTiO5wNCmd3Aj6mgqr+HEwwcf9p5@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU133-DS7B50DD5EAD05EC1B77D08DE9C0@phx.gbl>
	<00a801cb3e47$3c281110$b4783330$@com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTim6MBXsRYHcsYvz+UxQdSCm8f3p2MJGnTXa=sZ5@mail.gmail.com>

Jeff,

It is the 650,000 (most likely, underpaid and overworked, Asian workers) who
really concern me. And Nike is no stranger to controversies and scandals
surrounding their outsourcing practices. And yes, they've appeared to
intervene to ameliorate situations in the treatment of laborers when it's
brought to their attention publicly, but I question their desire to
intervene when it has not been made public. It's largely a PR issue with
Nike, and they seem to be good at damage control whenever an issue is
discovered. They cannot however, totally dismiss themselves from the
responsibility of seeing that their products are produced in an environment
of equitable and fair labor practices.

What I truly dislike is that much of the cost of the product results for
outrageous endorsement contracts. Sure it sells product, but the add on
costs are ridiculous. I feel the same way about the exorbitant cost of
concert or sporting event tickets. It's gotten to the point where you can't
afford many venues anymore. I've certainly stopped going, simply because I
refuse to buy into a system that seeks to fleece me of my money for the
benefit of a very few.

jimz



On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 1:03 PM, Jeff Howden <admin at jeffhowden.com> wrote:

> Kathy,
>
> > From: Kathy Ayala
> >
> > Please remember that Nike has all there product made
> > over sea's [...]
>
> Having worked for Nike, I can attest that this statement is not true.  In
> Beaverton is an air sole factory (or there used to be) where there were
> workers making air soles around the clock.
>
> > They employee a few people here in Oregon but [...]
>
> This is also not true.  Nike employs approximately 7,000 people in Oregon
> alone.  There are another 7,000 working in the other 49 states.  An
> additional 16,000 are employed directly by Nike around the world and
> somewhere in the neighborhood of 650,000 employed by companies that are
> contracted by Nike.
>
> The 7,000 employees in Oregon are, no doubt, the highest paid segment of
> Nike's employees.  That results in a significant tax benefit to the state,
> a
> significant consumer benefit to local businesses, and helps pay for
> numerous
> other local jobs.
>
> Here's more info:
>
> http://nyjobsource.com/nike.html
>
> Jeff
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>

From debbratland at gmail.com  Tue Aug 17 14:00:20 2010
From: debbratland at gmail.com (Debra Bratland)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 14:00:20 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Walmart Questions
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimLGSN7CkuRivWTRn+ZtCiapqC8pB+Qh4-uFkR0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTim60We1GDnTE1pMSEqKzShaHz44Z5ycD3q248U+@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinzK7mcFaKyHZ0KhfFOoe1ds70mvLG9yCf_hkue@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimXxev7j069hTiO5wNCmd3Aj6mgqr+HEwwcf9p5@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimLGSN7CkuRivWTRn+ZtCiapqC8pB+Qh4-uFkR0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=3mK3+BHiLF=FZvJh3nr1vdgPefSHUmom1wtN3@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Jim -

I hope you're wrong, too.  Sometimes it's good to be wrong!  But as you say,
at this point we'll just have to wait and see.

I stopped buying Nike shoes precisely because they paid their workers a
pittance, but then sold them for megabucks to us.  To me that's worse than
paying little and charging littlebecause it means they were completely
taking advantage of both their employees and their customers.  I believe
they've changed their business practices somewhat and I actually do buy Nike
shoes now.  Besides, other than a few custom shoe-makers or boutiques, how
many shoe companies, or any clothing manufacturer for that matter, doesn't
produce overseas?

We have to try to learn what the truth is, then decide what we can live
with, and continue to exist in an imperfect world.  I think this is where
the concepts of grace and humility come in.  Do your best to live a life of
integrity (as a consumer, producer, parent, employee, whatever), but know
that it will never be good enough, and then forgive yourself for not being
perfect.

Speaking of being a good parent, I've spent entirely too much time on this
discussion this morning ...

Deb Bratland

On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 12:59 PM, Jim Zaleski <jimzzz42 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Debra,
>
> I'm certainly no expert on the subject. I just followed the story like
> everyone else. I have no idea what the financial situation is there, and
> yes, it was a good example of an established local market trying to adjust.
> I hope their change will succeed. But remembering the comments from the
> store's owners when they were going through this process, it was indeed a
> desperate end run to avoid being crushed by WalMart. We'll have to wait and
> see how WalMart responds to the Hispanic consumer base in this area. It's
> likely they will also cater to their special needs, especially in the
> grocery section, and that could have a significant impact on Grande.
>
> I sincerely hope I'm wrong and that the doomsday-esk tone of my message is
> totally off base. That would be my wish. It's just that WalMart has a
> reputation for riding roughshod over communities and bullying their way
> around to get what they want. I just feel passionate about this area and
> don't want it dominated by a corporate giant that has no ties and no civic
> pride or responsibilities to make our hometown a better place.
>
> There will be many of us watching from the sidelines as this plays out.
> Again, I hope I'm wrong.
>
> jimz
>
> PS: Your reference to Nike is well deserved. They, like many giant
> corporations, earn huge profits off the backs of low paid labor in third
> world countries. Unlike WalMart however, you don't see Nike selling shoes
> for less, because they were made cheaply in Asia. If many of these
> companies
> reversed their trend to outsource production in foreign lands, it would do
> wonders to our own economy by putting American workers back to working
> making American products. Wow, what a concept!  : -)
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 12:28 PM, Debra Bratland <debbratland at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > Hi Jim -
> >
> > And if you missed the story behind the switch from Hank's
> > Thirftway in Cornelius to Grande Foods, you probably don't have
> sufficient
> > insights into the destructiveness of a WalMart moving into town to make a
> > decision one way or the other.
> >
> > You are obviously an expert on this subject and have looked at all sides
> > carefully.  I have issues about which I feel as passionately as you do
> > about
> > this one, and I know it's hard when people don't see what I see.  So I
> > understand the frustration that your email illustrated.  But for me, it's
> > important to ask questions based on my personal thoughts and
> observations.
> > Please be tolerant.
> >
> > No, Jim, I did not miss the Hanks/Grande story, but I also have read in
> the
> > local newspaper that, having made the switch, Grande hopes/believes that
> > Walmart will actually increase its business by bringing more people into
> > the
> > community who will shop at Grande for products that are hard to find
> > elsewhere.  And personally, I see Grande as an addition to our community
> -
> > even though it came at the demise of our local Hanks (same owners though)
> > for fear that it would lose out to Walmart.  I think Grande's a great
> > example of a business adjusting to a change and I hope they experience
> > continued success.  Perhaps, Jim, you have knowledge about Grande's
> > financial health that I don't have, and perhaps Grande is desperate.  My
> > personal story - which I realize doesn't fit into your beliefs about
> > Walmart
> > - was about a locally owned grocery store (very similar to Hanks)  that
> > didn't bite the dust when Walmart came to town.  It remains, a decade
> > post-Walmart, a very viable store.
> >
> > I, too, worry about BiMart and the impact it might have, and I have
> > wondered
> > how much Ace depends on little everyday things that can be bought
> > elsewhere.  However, if Ace does depend on that type of product,
> > wouldn't Ace have been done in already by Fred Meyer?  I guess I don't
> see
> > Walmart as being substantially different than Fred Meyer in terms of the
> > kinds of products that it sells.
> >
> > You say that the days of the other local shops around here are numbered.
> > I'll ask you - specifically what shops?  As to Fred Meyer, as I said
> > before,
> > it's not really "local".  (Though should it go under, I'll miss it.)
> >
> > Holly - I saw that documentary too, and was very unhappy about what it
> > presented.  But I guess I think that other businesses are also guilty of
> > looking for cheap products produced overseas.  Nike, anyone?  Perhaps
> > Walmart got the ball rolling ... ?  Would it have happened anyway?
> >
> > At any rate, as I said, I won't frequent Walmart because I don't
> > like shopping there.  And I'm unhappy about the traffic.  It will be a
> > mess.
> >
> > Deb Bratland
> > On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 11:02 AM, Jim Zaleski <jimzzz42 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Debra,
> > >
> > > The dark side of Walmart is too involved to address here, but they have
> a
> > > legacy of destructive practices when it comes to local businesses;
> their
> > > community relations are abysmal; they treat their employee poorly; they
> > > offer little benefits; they outsource nearly everything from China;
> they
> > > have no qualms about putting every mom and pop operation out of
> business;
> > > they don't care about you or me, they care about profit. And the
> traffic
> > > situation they will create? They could care less, it's the city's
> problem
> > > after all. And if you missed the story behind the switch from Hank's
> > > Thirftway in Cornelius to Grande Foods, you probably don't have
> > sufficient
> > > insights into the destructiveness of a WalMart moving into town to make
> a
> > > decision one way or the other. I just encourage you to look into it.
> > Grande
> > > Foods is a desperate attempt to stave off the effects of WalMart on an
> > > established local business, and to remain alive and competitive.
> Despite
> > > their valiant effort however, I don't know if they will be able to hold
> > > their own against this retail juggernaut.
> > >
> > > There is a good reason why there is almost always an organized
> opposition
> > > to
> > > a WalMart moving into towns and cities throughout the country.
> Sometimes
> > > the
> > > opposition wins, ours was not so successful.
> > >
> > > I figure we will probably see the demise of Fred Meyer, because it's
> > always
> > > been a marginal operation here. I just don't think FM will put up much
> of
> > a
> > > fight. As for Bi-Mart, I'm not sure what will happen to them. They are
> > also
> > > my favorite local store, but they too must face the giant the the east,
> > and
> > > if profits begin to dwindle,  then maybe they too will pull up stakes
> and
> > > move on. Ace Hardware? They may stay alive because they carry so many
> > items
> > > found no where else, however, should their business drop off
> > significantly
> > > because the people who used to go there for 'common' everyday items,
> > decide
> > > just to pick them up at WalMart, then you may see them fold as well. I
> > hope
> > > not, but then I don't know how well Ace is doing now and whether they
> can
> > > withstand a decrease in business for long. And as far as the small
> retail
> > > shops in the immediate vicinity of the store, they're days,
> > unfortunately,
> > > are numbered.
> > >
> > > Despite all the hype, WalMart is *not* good for the community, and they
> > > will
> > > wind up taking more away from the community than they put into it. The
> > > problem with traffic will soon be eclipsed by their affect on local
> > > businesses. Just Google "WalMart and Local Competition," to get an idea
> > of
> > > their impact on small communities. It may change your mind if you have
> > any
> > > good thoughts about the benefits of their being here.
> > >
> > > My final thoughts on it's opening are to invite everyone to look into
> the
> > > WalMart operation before you buy, and SHOP WITH YOUR CONSCIENCE, NOT
> YOUR
> > > WALLET. Don't shop there, I know I won't.
> > >
> > > jimz
> > >
> > > On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 10:22 AM, Debra Bratland <
> debbratland at gmail.com
> > > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'm with you, Holly.  I'm not philosophically opposed to Walmart
> being
> > > here
> > > > - but the traffic situation is what irks me.  Cornelius will reap the
> > > > benefits, but FG commuters will pay a heavy price, I fear.  Poor
> > planning
> > > > with little regard for FG residents.
> > > >
> > > > I am curious about something, though.  I hear people say that Walmart
> > is
> > > > going to hurt local businesses, and I've always wondered what that
> > means.
> > > > What kinds of products will people buy at Walmart instead of at
> "local"
> > > > businesses?  I suppose that depends on what you think of as "local".
> > > >
> > > > If you're talking about local specialty stores, I wonder if Walmart
> > will
> > > > really cut into their business?  I'm thinking that people with
> limited
> > > > resources generally don't buy at local specialty shops anyway, and
> that
> > > > people who already buy at those shops won't abandon them for Walmart
> > > > products.  For example, it doesn't seem to me that people who shop at
> > > Let's
> > > > Play (Hillsboro) for toys will suddenly switch their business to
> > Walmart.
> > > >  I
> > > > don't think that people who shop at the FG Farmer's Market will go to
> > > > Walmart on Wednesday evening instead of to the Farmer's Market.  I
> > would
> > > > think that Frye's would be pretty safe - again, because of their
> > > expertise
> > > > and inventory.
> > > >
> > > > If you're talking about Fred Meyer, Safeway, and BiMart (my favorite
> > > > general
> > > > store in FG), then I suppose there will be some shift in where people
> > > buy.
> > > > But I guess I don't think of those stores as "local businesses",
> other
> > > than
> > > > that they've been around for awhile.  Our Ace Hardware is "local",
> but
> > > > again, I don't think Walmart can compete with Ace's expertise or
> > > inventory.
> > > >
> > > > My dad works for a locally-owned grocery store in South Dakota.  When
> > > > Walmart moved to town, the owner worried about a loss of business.
>  He
> > > did
> > > > lose business - but it was only about 2%.  His customer base stayed
> > > loyal,
> > > > he reinvigorated his customer service, he expanded his catering
> > service,
> > > > and
> > > > in the end his store hasn't suffered.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, I'm curious as to what other people think, and wondering what
> > I'm
> > > > missing in my thought processes.  I know that I won't frequent
> Walmart
> > > > except when my son wants to buy video games (something he currently
> > buys
> > > at
> > > > Fred Meyer), because having been in Walmarts across the country -
>  from
> > > > Alaska to Texas - I just don't like their huge stores with their huge
> > > > partking lots.
> > > >
> > > > By the way, I don't remember people being concerned about losses to
> > local
> > > > businesses when Costco came to Hillsboro.  I may not have been paying
> > > > attention, as I live in FG.  Did I miss that, or was it never an
> issue?
> > > >
> > > > Deb Bratland
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Holly Di <redhead854 at msn.com>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Sorry for the bad punctuation and grammar on my first message.  I
> > sent
> > > it
> > > > > from my phone. The store opens tomorrow.
> > > > >
> > > > > The way the sign reads Walmart traffic is suppose to use the left
> > lane
> > > > when
> > > > > you are going East twords Cornelius
> > > > > from Forest Grove.  I am thinking that they are estimating that
> that
> > > lane
> > > > > will be complete back up (hence the sign is near Ace Hardware)
> > > > > as people try to turn Left at the light.  If they are planning that
> > why
> > > > did
> > > > > they not pave an additional  TURN LEFT only lane????  As both lanes
> > of
> > > > > travel going straight are needed ??  What are they thinking ??
> > > > >
> > > > > Same thing going West.  the Reader sign is near Fred Meyers,
> telling
> > > > > Walmart shoppers to stay in the right lane?  When I travel thru
> town
> > in
> > > > rush
> > > > > hour
> > > > > I use the right  lane through that area because the left lane is
> full
> > > of
> > > > > people who turn left slowly,,, or suddenly decide they have to go
> to
> > > 7-11
> > > > or
> > > > > the bank.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The sign placement tells me that they think that there will be
> quite
> > a
> > > > back
> > > > > up,,, If they think it will cause that much of an issue, why isn't
> > > there
> > > > > more lanes, more
> > > > > of everything.  not just a READER Board "Thru traffic use this
> > > > > lane,,,,Walmart Traffic use this lane" . I have to think that they
> > > > believe
> > > > > the traffic is going to be
> > > > > backed up significantly because if not they are  insulting our
> > > > intelligence
> > > > > Like we would just continue driving in whatever lane and dive
> across
> > > and
> > > > > turn left at
> > > > > random.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes I am not looking forward to the additional traffic clogging up
> > > > > Cornelius.  I will probably avoid traveling through there all
> > together,
> > > >  I
> > > > > wont stop at the
> > > > > local business and purchase stuff on my way home, I will take back
> > > roads
> > > > > from Hillsboro to get home.  Yet another affect that Cornelius
> > > business'
> > > > > will feel from  the lack
> > > > > of planning for traffic with Walmart.
> > > > >
> > > > > I dont feel anti walmart, I am feeling anti City of Cornelius.
>  They
> > > need
> > > > > to set their traffic lights like Hillsboro, so you stop once and
> flow
> > > > thru
> > > > > at 30mph.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > From: g-g-steele at comcast.net
> > > > > > To: grovenet at rdrop.com
> > > > > > Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 08:21:44 -0700
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes, indeed. Everyone start scouting all alternate routes now!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Used to take me about 6-8 minutes to get from Gales Creek Rd.
> near
> > > > > Thatcher,
> > > > > > to Cornelius....  Aah, the 'old' days, lol!  But it's been quite
> a
> > > > while
> > > > > > since it took anything less than twice that.  And now it'll be
> > worse.
> > > >  On
> > > > > > the other hand, I really hope this does for Cornelius what they
> > want
> > > --
> > > > > > without damaging F.G.!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Geri
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > From: "Walt Wentz" <waltw at teleport.com>
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 8:10 AM
> > > > > > To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I've been driving the route the past couple of days, and
> traffic
> > > > > > > seems a little heavier both going and coming. I suspect that as
> > > more
> > > > > > > people "discover" the new store, traffic will get progressively
> > > worse
> > > > > > > even as local businesses struggle harder.
> > > > > > > WW
> > > > > > > On Aug 16, 2010, at 10:32 PM, donkelly wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> Seemed to be working find today. I took the outside land
> because
> > I
> > > > > > >> was going home, not to Walmart. Did it open today or
> something?
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> don
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > >> From: David Morelli <jo.david at verizon.net>
> > > > > > >> To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> > > > > > >> Sent: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 05:26:33 -0000 (UTC)
> > > > > > >> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and
> > asked
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Question, what is the purpose for the new road next to Neal
> > > > > > >> Armstrong?  Who paid for the work?
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> David
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> On Aug 16, 2010, at 4:40 PM, Holly Di wrote:
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> I just called city of Cornelius and asked what are they going
> > to
> > > do
> > > > > > >>> besides pit up reader boards telling us what lane to use If
> we
> > > are
> > > > > > >>> through traffic on eachside of the city?
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> I left voicemail for mr oppenheimer or something close to
> that.
> > I
> > > > say
> > > > > > >>> we all call and tell them that is not enough
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> (503) 357-3011
> > > > > > >>>  Cornelius planning
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> _______________________________________________
> > > > > > >>> GroveNet mailing list
> > > > > > >>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > > > > > >>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > > > >> GroveNet mailing list
> > > > > > >> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > > > > > >> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > > > >> GroveNet mailing list
> > > > > > >> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > > > > > >> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > GroveNet mailing list
> > > > > > > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > > > > > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > GroveNet mailing list
> > > > > > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > > > > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > GroveNet mailing list
> > > > > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > > > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> > > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > GroveNet mailing list
> > > > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GroveNet mailing list
> > > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GroveNet mailing list
> > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>

From jawelch at coho.net  Tue Aug 17 15:38:41 2010
From: jawelch at coho.net (John
  Welch)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 15:38:41 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Walmart Questions
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinzK7mcFaKyHZ0KhfFOoe1ds70mvLG9yCf_hkue@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTim60We1GDnTE1pMSEqKzShaHz44Z5ycD3q248U+@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinzK7mcFaKyHZ0KhfFOoe1ds70mvLG9yCf_hkue@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002a01cb3e5c$f13b9bc0$d3b2d340$@net>

Regarding Ace Hardware, two things that they have going for them are the
fact that you can come in with a problem and their expertise sends you out
with a solution as well as the proper products to address the problem.
Secondly, if you need one of a certain sized widget you can buy it.  At
Wally's and other big box stores they will sell you a packaged assortment
containing what you want at a much greater price and having you pay much
more than Ace for things that you will never use (though the per-widget
price may be lower).  Wall Mart will always be my store of last resort.

John

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Jim Zaleski
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 11:03 AM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Walmart Questions

Debra,

The dark side of Walmart is too involved to address here, but they have a
legacy of destructive practices when it comes to local businesses; their
community relations are abysmal; they treat their employee poorly; they
offer little benefits; they outsource nearly everything from China; they
have no qualms about putting every mom and pop operation out of business;
they don't care about you or me, they care about profit. And the traffic
situation they will create? They could care less, it's the city's problem
after all. And if you missed the story behind the switch from Hank's
Thirftway in Cornelius to Grande Foods, you probably don't have sufficient
insights into the destructiveness of a WalMart moving into town to make a
decision one way or the other. I just encourage you to look into it. Grande
Foods is a desperate attempt to stave off the effects of WalMart on an
established local business, and to remain alive and competitive. Despite
their valiant effort however, I don't know if they will be able to hold
their own against this retail juggernaut.

There is a good reason why there is almost always an organized opposition to
a WalMart moving into towns and cities throughout the country. Sometimes the
opposition wins, ours was not so successful.

I figure we will probably see the demise of Fred Meyer, because it's always
been a marginal operation here. I just don't think FM will put up much of a
fight. As for Bi-Mart, I'm not sure what will happen to them. They are also
my favorite local store, but they too must face the giant the the east, and
if profits begin to dwindle,  then maybe they too will pull up stakes and
move on. Ace Hardware? They may stay alive because they carry so many items
found no where else, however, should their business drop off significantly
because the people who used to go there for 'common' everyday items, decide
just to pick them up at WalMart, then you may see them fold as well. I hope
not, but then I don't know how well Ace is doing now and whether they can
withstand a decrease in business for long. And as far as the small retail
shops in the immediate vicinity of the store, they're days, unfortunately,
are numbered.

Despite all the hype, WalMart is *not* good for the community, and they will
wind up taking more away from the community than they put into it. The
problem with traffic will soon be eclipsed by their affect on local
businesses. Just Google "WalMart and Local Competition," to get an idea of
their impact on small communities. It may change your mind if you have any
good thoughts about the benefits of their being here.

My final thoughts on it's opening are to invite everyone to look into the
WalMart operation before you buy, and SHOP WITH YOUR CONSCIENCE, NOT YOUR
WALLET. Don't shop there, I know I won't.

jimz

On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 10:22 AM, Debra Bratland
<debbratland at gmail.com>wrote:

> I'm with you, Holly.  I'm not philosophically opposed to Walmart being
here
> - but the traffic situation is what irks me.  Cornelius will reap the
> benefits, but FG commuters will pay a heavy price, I fear.  Poor planning
> with little regard for FG residents.
>
> I am curious about something, though.  I hear people say that Walmart is
> going to hurt local businesses, and I've always wondered what that means.
> What kinds of products will people buy at Walmart instead of at "local"
> businesses?  I suppose that depends on what you think of as "local".
>
> If you're talking about local specialty stores, I wonder if Walmart will
> really cut into their business?  I'm thinking that people with limited
> resources generally don't buy at local specialty shops anyway, and that
> people who already buy at those shops won't abandon them for Walmart
> products.  For example, it doesn't seem to me that people who shop at
Let's
> Play (Hillsboro) for toys will suddenly switch their business to Walmart.
>  I
> don't think that people who shop at the FG Farmer's Market will go to
> Walmart on Wednesday evening instead of to the Farmer's Market.  I would
> think that Frye's would be pretty safe - again, because of their expertise
> and inventory.
>
> If you're talking about Fred Meyer, Safeway, and BiMart (my favorite
> general
> store in FG), then I suppose there will be some shift in where people buy.
> But I guess I don't think of those stores as "local businesses", other
than
> that they've been around for awhile.  Our Ace Hardware is "local", but
> again, I don't think Walmart can compete with Ace's expertise or
inventory.
>
> My dad works for a locally-owned grocery store in South Dakota.  When
> Walmart moved to town, the owner worried about a loss of business.  He did
> lose business - but it was only about 2%.  His customer base stayed loyal,
> he reinvigorated his customer service, he expanded his catering service,
> and
> in the end his store hasn't suffered.
>
> Anyway, I'm curious as to what other people think, and wondering what I'm
> missing in my thought processes.  I know that I won't frequent Walmart
> except when my son wants to buy video games (something he currently buys
at
> Fred Meyer), because having been in Walmarts across the country -  from
> Alaska to Texas - I just don't like their huge stores with their huge
> partking lots.
>
> By the way, I don't remember people being concerned about losses to local
> businesses when Costco came to Hillsboro.  I may not have been paying
> attention, as I live in FG.  Did I miss that, or was it never an issue?
>
> Deb Bratland
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Holly Di <redhead854 at msn.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Sorry for the bad punctuation and grammar on my first message.  I sent
it
> > from my phone. The store opens tomorrow.
> >
> > The way the sign reads Walmart traffic is suppose to use the left lane
> when
> > you are going East twords Cornelius
> > from Forest Grove.  I am thinking that they are estimating that that
lane
> > will be complete back up (hence the sign is near Ace Hardware)
> > as people try to turn Left at the light.  If they are planning that why
> did
> > they not pave an additional  TURN LEFT only lane????  As both lanes of
> > travel going straight are needed ??  What are they thinking ??
> >
> > Same thing going West.  the Reader sign is near Fred Meyers, telling
> > Walmart shoppers to stay in the right lane?  When I travel thru town in
> rush
> > hour
> > I use the right  lane through that area because the left lane is full of
> > people who turn left slowly,,, or suddenly decide they have to go to
7-11
> or
> > the bank.
> >
> >
> > The sign placement tells me that they think that there will be quite a
> back
> > up,,, If they think it will cause that much of an issue, why isn't there
> > more lanes, more
> > of everything.  not just a READER Board "Thru traffic use this
> > lane,,,,Walmart Traffic use this lane" . I have to think that they
> believe
> > the traffic is going to be
> > backed up significantly because if not they are  insulting our
> intelligence
> > Like we would just continue driving in whatever lane and dive across and
> > turn left at
> > random.
> >
> > Yes I am not looking forward to the additional traffic clogging up
> > Cornelius.  I will probably avoid traveling through there all together,
>  I
> > wont stop at the
> > local business and purchase stuff on my way home, I will take back roads
> > from Hillsboro to get home.  Yet another affect that Cornelius business'
> > will feel from  the lack
> > of planning for traffic with Walmart.
> >
> > I dont feel anti walmart, I am feeling anti City of Cornelius.  They
need
> > to set their traffic lights like Hillsboro, so you stop once and flow
> thru
> > at 30mph.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > From: g-g-steele at comcast.net
> > > To: grovenet at rdrop.com
> > > Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 08:21:44 -0700
> > > Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
> > >
> > > Yes, indeed. Everyone start scouting all alternate routes now!
> > >
> > > Used to take me about 6-8 minutes to get from Gales Creek Rd. near
> > Thatcher,
> > > to Cornelius....  Aah, the 'old' days, lol!  But it's been quite a
> while
> > > since it took anything less than twice that.  And now it'll be worse.
>  On
> > > the other hand, I really hope this does for Cornelius what they want
--
> > > without damaging F.G.!
> > >
> > > Geri
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------
> > > From: "Walt Wentz" <waltw at teleport.com>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 8:10 AM
> > > To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
> > >
> > > > I've been driving the route the past couple of days, and traffic
> > > > seems a little heavier both going and coming. I suspect that as more
> > > > people "discover" the new store, traffic will get progressively
worse
> > > > even as local businesses struggle harder.
> > > > WW
> > > > On Aug 16, 2010, at 10:32 PM, donkelly wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Seemed to be working find today. I took the outside land because I
> > > >> was going home, not to Walmart. Did it open today or something?
> > > >>
> > > >> don
> > > >>
> > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > > >> From: David Morelli <jo.david at verizon.net>
> > > >> To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> > > >> Sent: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 05:26:33 -0000 (UTC)
> > > >> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
> > > >>
> > > >> Question, what is the purpose for the new road next to Neal
> > > >> Armstrong?  Who paid for the work?
> > > >>
> > > >> David
> > > >>
> > > >> On Aug 16, 2010, at 4:40 PM, Holly Di wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I just called city of Cornelius and asked what are they going to
do
> > > >>> besides pit up reader boards telling us what lane to use If we are
> > > >>> through traffic on eachside of the city?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I left voicemail for mr oppenheimer or something close to that. I
> say
> > > >>> we all call and tell them that is not enough
> > > >>>
> > > >>> (503) 357-3011
> > > >>>  Cornelius planning
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> _______________________________________________
> > > >>> GroveNet mailing list
> > > >>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > > >>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> GroveNet mailing list
> > > >> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > > >> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> GroveNet mailing list
> > > >> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > > >> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > GroveNet mailing list
> > > > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GroveNet mailing list
> > > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GroveNet mailing list
> > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet




From redwagonfun at gmail.com  Tue Aug 17 15:50:42 2010
From: redwagonfun at gmail.com (Marian Cakarnis)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 15:50:42 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Fw:  Walmart Questions
Message-ID: <6409870429E04C53BE0E51A7E1DDBA2C@JeffVAIO>

As much as I don't like WalMart, it is a fact that they are in business, 
because the consumers support those "low" prices over the goods made here in 
the U.S.  "Low", because I don't really believe they are cheaper in the long 
run for a number of reasons.

I don't particularly like the way WalMart does business, and I make an 
effort to vote with my dollars, but apparently there is enough of a customer 
base which made WalMart what it is.  We, as consumers don't always do a very 
good job of voting in our own best self-interests.  We don't recognize what 
quality is and most consumers make purchasing decisions on price rather than 
longevity, quality, etc.

This past fourth of July holiday, my mom had a great idea.  She thought we 
should celebrate for one whole week by not purchasing anything made, grown 
or produced overseas.  I think it would be virtually impossible to do, 
because everything we buy these days, comes from overseas.  But wouldn't it 
be an eye-opener for some people to pay attention to where their products 
come from?  I once bought a box of sorbet (Island Way brand) at Costco and 
was horrified when I got home and read that it was a "Product of South 
Africa".  Really!?!?!

Marian 



From redwagonfun at gmail.com  Tue Aug 17 15:51:31 2010
From: redwagonfun at gmail.com (Marian Cakarnis)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 15:51:31 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Fw:  Walmart Questions
Message-ID: <CDCAA21F7726406791B0C9B21DF0B16E@JeffVAIO>

The BETC (Business Energy Tax Credit) problem can be blamed on more than
just WalMart.  First of all, the State of Oregon allowed this to happen.
Second, shouldn't SolarWorld take a big portion of the blame too?  After
all, they are the ones who sold WalMart the Tax Credit, profiting a bit
themselves.  This system is one of the biggest hoaxes on the Oregon
Taxpayer.  Some people say SolarWorld would not have moved here without the
credits, but did they really need to sell them to WalMart?

Marian

> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Jim Zaleski" <jimzzz42 at gmail.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 12:15 PM
> To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Walmart Questions
>
>> Now here's a little sample of WalMart working hard to avoid paying taxes 
>> to
>> Oregon. Totally irresponsible, and the lowest form of corporate
>> profiteering. And some people say they are good for the economy. Just 
>> crooks
>> is corporate clothing raiding clean energy coffers for their own profit 
>> at
>> our expense.
>>
>> http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2009/12/walmart_others_make_money_on_o.html
>>
>> jimz
>>
>> PS: I'm not naive enough to think that any of the controversies 
>> surrounding
>> WalMart will hurt their profit margin, it's not going to happen. As long 
>> as
>> they save people money, they will succeed. All the controversies be 
>> damned,
>> the almighty dollar is the power and the glory, the American dream. And 
>> the
>> lure to save a buck (especially in these times) is almost impossible to
>> ignore. When you pass by the store, that giant sucking sound you will 
>> hear
>> will be the WalMart machine sucking the local economy dry. A WalMart
>> wasteland will be the ultimate result of their efforts to dominate local
>> markets. A sad commentary of our times. And should there come day when
>> Cornelius officials will be looking at the sorry WalMart-state of their
>> economy, they'll probably just shake their heads and say, "We just didn't
>> seeing it coming". As the old saying goes, "you get what you pay for," in
>> this instance, Cornelius really didn't pay for anything, and that's 
>> exactly
>> what they'll get in return - nothing.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 10:22 AM, Debra Bratland 
>> <debbratland at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> I'm with you, Holly.  I'm not philosophically opposed to Walmart being 
>>> here
>>> - but the traffic situation is what irks me.  Cornelius will reap the
>>> benefits, but FG commuters will pay a heavy price, I fear.  Poor 
>>> planning
>>> with little regard for FG residents.
>>>
>>> I am curious about something, though.  I hear people say that Walmart is
>>> going to hurt local businesses, and I've always wondered what that 
>>> means.
>>> What kinds of products will people buy at Walmart instead of at "local"
>>> businesses?  I suppose that depends on what you think of as "local".
>>>
>>> If you're talking about local specialty stores, I wonder if Walmart will
>>> really cut into their business?  I'm thinking that people with limited
>>> resources generally don't buy at local specialty shops anyway, and that
>>> people who already buy at those shops won't abandon them for Walmart
>>> products.  For example, it doesn't seem to me that people who shop at 
>>> Let's
>>> Play (Hillsboro) for toys will suddenly switch their business to 
>>> Walmart.
>>>  I
>>> don't think that people who shop at the FG Farmer's Market will go to
>>> Walmart on Wednesday evening instead of to the Farmer's Market.  I would
>>> think that Frye's would be pretty safe - again, because of their 
>>> expertise
>>> and inventory.
>>>
>>> If you're talking about Fred Meyer, Safeway, and BiMart (my favorite
>>> general
>>> store in FG), then I suppose there will be some shift in where people 
>>> buy.
>>> But I guess I don't think of those stores as "local businesses", other 
>>> than
>>> that they've been around for awhile.  Our Ace Hardware is "local", but
>>> again, I don't think Walmart can compete with Ace's expertise or 
>>> inventory.
>>>
>>> My dad works for a locally-owned grocery store in South Dakota.  When
>>> Walmart moved to town, the owner worried about a loss of business.  He 
>>> did
>>> lose business - but it was only about 2%.  His customer base stayed 
>>> loyal,
>>> he reinvigorated his customer service, he expanded his catering service,
>>> and
>>> in the end his store hasn't suffered.
>>>
>>> Anyway, I'm curious as to what other people think, and wondering what 
>>> I'm
>>> missing in my thought processes.  I know that I won't frequent Walmart
>>> except when my son wants to buy video games (something he currently buys 
>>> at
>>> Fred Meyer), because having been in Walmarts across the country -  from
>>> Alaska to Texas - I just don't like their huge stores with their huge
>>> partking lots.
>>>
>>> By the way, I don't remember people being concerned about losses to 
>>> local
>>> businesses when Costco came to Hillsboro.  I may not have been paying
>>> attention, as I live in FG.  Did I miss that, or was it never an issue?
>>>
>>> Deb Bratland
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Holly Di <redhead854 at msn.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Sorry for the bad punctuation and grammar on my first message.  I sent 
>>> > it
>>> > from my phone. The store opens tomorrow.
>>> >
>>> > The way the sign reads Walmart traffic is suppose to use the left lane
>>> when
>>> > you are going East twords Cornelius
>>> > from Forest Grove.  I am thinking that they are estimating that that 
>>> > lane
>>> > will be complete back up (hence the sign is near Ace Hardware)
>>> > as people try to turn Left at the light.  If they are planning that 
>>> > why
>>> did
>>> > they not pave an additional  TURN LEFT only lane????  As both lanes of
>>> > travel going straight are needed ??  What are they thinking ??
>>> >
>>> > Same thing going West.  the Reader sign is near Fred Meyers, telling
>>> > Walmart shoppers to stay in the right lane?  When I travel thru town 
>>> > in
>>> rush
>>> > hour
>>> > I use the right  lane through that area because the left lane is full 
>>> > of
>>> > people who turn left slowly,,, or suddenly decide they have to go to 
>>> > 7-11
>>> or
>>> > the bank.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > The sign placement tells me that they think that there will be quite a
>>> back
>>> > up,,, If they think it will cause that much of an issue, why isn't 
>>> > there
>>> > more lanes, more
>>> > of everything.  not just a READER Board "Thru traffic use this
>>> > lane,,,,Walmart Traffic use this lane" . I have to think that they
>>> believe
>>> > the traffic is going to be
>>> > backed up significantly because if not they are  insulting our
>>> intelligence
>>> > Like we would just continue driving in whatever lane and dive across 
>>> > and
>>> > turn left at
>>> > random.
>>> >
>>> > Yes I am not looking forward to the additional traffic clogging up
>>> > Cornelius.  I will probably avoid traveling through there all 
>>> > together,
>>>  I
>>> > wont stop at the
>>> > local business and purchase stuff on my way home, I will take back 
>>> > roads
>>> > from Hillsboro to get home.  Yet another affect that Cornelius 
>>> > business'
>>> > will feel from  the lack
>>> > of planning for traffic with Walmart.
>>> >
>>> > I dont feel anti walmart, I am feeling anti City of Cornelius.  They 
>>> > need
>>> > to set their traffic lights like Hillsboro, so you stop once and flow
>>> thru
>>> > at 30mph.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > > From: g-g-steele at comcast.net
>>> > > To: grovenet at rdrop.com
>>> > > Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 08:21:44 -0700
>>> > > Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
>>> > >
>>> > > Yes, indeed. Everyone start scouting all alternate routes now!
>>> > >
>>> > > Used to take me about 6-8 minutes to get from Gales Creek Rd. near
>>> > Thatcher,
>>> > > to Cornelius....  Aah, the 'old' days, lol!  But it's been quite a
>>> while
>>> > > since it took anything less than twice that.  And now it'll be 
>>> > > worse.
>>>  On
>>> > > the other hand, I really hope this does for Cornelius what they 
>>> > > want --
>>> > > without damaging F.G.!
>>> > >
>>> > > Geri
>>> > >
>>> > > --------------------------------------------------
>>> > > From: "Walt Wentz" <waltw at teleport.com>
>>> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 8:10 AM
>>> > > To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
>>> > > Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
>>> > >
>>> > > > I've been driving the route the past couple of days, and traffic
>>> > > > seems a little heavier both going and coming. I suspect that as 
>>> > > > more
>>> > > > people "discover" the new store, traffic will get progressively 
>>> > > > worse
>>> > > > even as local businesses struggle harder.
>>> > > > WW
>>> > > > On Aug 16, 2010, at 10:32 PM, donkelly wrote:
>>> > > >
>>> > > >> Seemed to be working find today. I took the outside land because 
>>> > > >> I
>>> > > >> was going home, not to Walmart. Did it open today or something?
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >> don
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >> ----- Original Message -----
>>> > > >> From: David Morelli <jo.david at verizon.net>
>>> > > >> To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
>>> > > >> Sent: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 05:26:33 -0000 (UTC)
>>> > > >> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >> Question, what is the purpose for the new road next to Neal
>>> > > >> Armstrong?  Who paid for the work?
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >> David
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >> On Aug 16, 2010, at 4:40 PM, Holly Di wrote:
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >>>
>>> > > >>> I just called city of Cornelius and asked what are they going to 
>>> > > >>> do
>>> > > >>> besides pit up reader boards telling us what lane to use If we 
>>> > > >>> are
>>> > > >>> through traffic on eachside of the city?
>>> > > >>>
>>> > > >>> I left voicemail for mr oppenheimer or something close to that. 
>>> > > >>> I
>>> say
>>> > > >>> we all call and tell them that is not enough
>>> > > >>>
>>> > > >>> (503) 357-3011
>>> > > >>>  Cornelius planning
>>> > > >>>
>>> > > >>>
>>> > > >>> _______________________________________________
>>> > > >>> GroveNet mailing list
>>> > > >>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>>> > > >>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >> _______________________________________________
>>> > > >> GroveNet mailing list
>>> > > >> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>>> > > >> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >> _______________________________________________
>>> > > >> GroveNet mailing list
>>> > > >> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>>> > > >> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > _______________________________________________
>>> > > > GroveNet mailing list
>>> > > > GroveNet at rdrop.com
>>> > > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>> > > GroveNet mailing list
>>> > > GroveNet at rdrop.com
>>> > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > GroveNet mailing list
>>> > GroveNet at rdrop.com
>>> > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>> >
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GroveNet mailing list
>>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> 


From redhead854 at msn.com  Tue Aug 17 16:52:38 2010
From: redhead854 at msn.com (Holly Di)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 16:52:38 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] FW: Wal-Mart Traffic Got My answer to my question......
In-Reply-To: <815204F2B32B59409A9297761979049801A29178@webmail.ci.cornelius.or.us>
References: <815204F2B32B59409A9297761979049801A29178@webmail.ci.cornelius.or.us>
Message-ID: <BAY127-W32E450649C3674496055C879C0@phx.gbl>



Here is my answer, but I chuckled today because the reader boards were still there today, but they were OFF.    

But, I love his response........."in preparation for possible traffic congestion"   POSSIBLE?  apparently there are only traffic concerns for the grand opening.  

Love this part too " We are prepared to minimize the traffic impact as much as possible"   How?  I will ask him and let you all know. 





Subject: Wal-Mart Traffic
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 15:06:09 -0700
From: koppenlander at ci.cornelius.or.us
To: redhead854 at msn.com
















Holly Martinez,

 

We have developed traffic management options in preparation for
possible traffic congestion during Walmart?s grand opening August 18th. 
If traffic congestion develops and/or increases in severity, traffic management
actions will be put in place.  Emergency responders (police, fire, and ambulance)
are informed and these efforts have been coordinated with other local cities,
emergency responders, Walmart, and Washington County.  We are prepared to
minimize the traffic impact as much as possible.

 

If you have any other questions, please let me know and I
will attempt to answer.

 

 

Kevin
Oppenlander

Engineering
Technician

City
of Cornelius

1355 N. Barlow Street

Cornelius, OR 97113

503-357-3011 Ext. 374

503-357-3424 Fax

koppenlander at ci.cornelius.or.us

 

 		 	   		  

From adamsmayer at gmail.com  Wed Aug 18 06:25:39 2010
From: adamsmayer at gmail.com (Adam Mayer)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 06:25:39 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Walmart Questions
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTim60We1GDnTE1pMSEqKzShaHz44Z5ycD3q248U+@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTim60We1GDnTE1pMSEqKzShaHz44Z5ycD3q248U+@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C6BDF53.3050704@gmail.com>

Not that I am supporting Wal-Mart (or opposing it for that matter) I 
think a few points should be made.  First Wal-Mart is a privately run 
company, who purchased the land and followed the proper zoning laws and 
other requirements to build their store.  Secondly, it may hit certain 
businesses harder like Fred Meyer's but it won't put them out of 
business.  People like competition and will comparison shop to see who 
has the best prices and quality.  Speaking of quality, most of 
everything sold at Wal-Mart is generally of poor quality.  If you want a 
tool that's cheap you'll go to Wal-Mart.  If you need one to last more 
than six months you'll go to Ace.  You get what you pay for when you 
shop at Wal-Mart.

Also it should be noted that there are people who are glad Wal-Mart is 
here.  This would include the Forest Grove School District who well 
benefit from additional property taxes.  I'm sure they'll benefit from 
other source of funds from the store, lots of good PR donating to the 
local school.  People who are out of work who got hired by Wal-Mart I'm 
sure are pretty happy.  When you don't have a job and you get one, no 
matter what it is, you feel better about yourself.  I don't know anyone 
who feels good about collecting unemployment.

And as for the company being evil?  Wal-Mart doesn't care about people?  
Well does any corporation care about people?  Does Fred Meyer's care or 
Whole Foods or name the franchise of your choice care about people?  
People who work at the local store care about the customers and their 
neighbors, but you can't realistically expect a company to care about 
people.  They care about profit.  Any business who says otherwise is lying.

Do they pay people enough?  They can't pay less than minimum wage.  But 
who are they paying and for what?  The more skilled your work the more 
you get.  The easy way to look at this is how many people can do your 
job.  If many people can do it you'll get paid less.  If fewer people 
can do it you'll get paid more.  Think mopping a floor and performing 
brain surgery.  More people can mop a floor, so you'll get paid less.  
Few people can perform brain surgery so they get paid more.  Working at 
Wal-Mart requires more skill than mopping a floor but nowhere near the 
level of brain surgery.  They will pay what they think they can to keep 
profit but keep people from quitting.  Is this fair?  Probably not, but 
it's not illegal.

Now the traffic will be a big issue at first, most likely the first few 
weeks and then it will slow down.  Might be a few more cars on Pacific 
and mostly on the weekends but it will get back to normal.  That is 
until Christmas.  Then we will have trouble.  Now hopefully someone in 
the city of Cornelius is planning for this, they still have about three 
months until Black Friday.

Adam

Debra Bratland wrote:
> I'm with you, Holly.  I'm not philosophically opposed to Walmart being here
> - but the traffic situation is what irks me.  Cornelius will reap the
> benefits, but FG commuters will pay a heavy price, I fear.  Poor planning
> with little regard for FG residents.
>
> I am curious about something, though.  I hear people say that Walmart is
> going to hurt local businesses, and I've always wondered what that means.
> What kinds of products will people buy at Walmart instead of at "local"
> businesses?  I suppose that depends on what you think of as "local".
>
> If you're talking about local specialty stores, I wonder if Walmart will
> really cut into their business?  I'm thinking that people with limited
> resources generally don't buy at local specialty shops anyway, and that
> people who already buy at those shops won't abandon them for Walmart
> products.  For example, it doesn't seem to me that people who shop at Let's
> Play (Hillsboro) for toys will suddenly switch their business to Walmart.  I
> don't think that people who shop at the FG Farmer's Market will go to
> Walmart on Wednesday evening instead of to the Farmer's Market.  I would
> think that Frye's would be pretty safe - again, because of their expertise
> and inventory.
>
> If you're talking about Fred Meyer, Safeway, and BiMart (my favorite general
> store in FG), then I suppose there will be some shift in where people buy.
> But I guess I don't think of those stores as "local businesses", other than
> that they've been around for awhile.  Our Ace Hardware is "local", but
> again, I don't think Walmart can compete with Ace's expertise or inventory.
>
> My dad works for a locally-owned grocery store in South Dakota.  When
> Walmart moved to town, the owner worried about a loss of business.  He did
> lose business - but it was only about 2%.  His customer base stayed loyal,
> he reinvigorated his customer service, he expanded his catering service, and
> in the end his store hasn't suffered.
>
> Anyway, I'm curious as to what other people think, and wondering what I'm
> missing in my thought processes.  I know that I won't frequent Walmart
> except when my son wants to buy video games (something he currently buys at
> Fred Meyer), because having been in Walmarts across the country -  from
> Alaska to Texas - I just don't like their huge stores with their huge
> partking lots.
>
> By the way, I don't remember people being concerned about losses to local
> businesses when Costco came to Hillsboro.  I may not have been paying
> attention, as I live in FG.  Did I miss that, or was it never an issue?
>
> Deb Bratland
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Holly Di <redhead854 at msn.com> wrote:
>
>   
>> Sorry for the bad punctuation and grammar on my first message.  I sent it
>> from my phone. The store opens tomorrow.
>>
>> The way the sign reads Walmart traffic is suppose to use the left lane when
>> you are going East twords Cornelius
>> from Forest Grove.  I am thinking that they are estimating that that lane
>> will be complete back up (hence the sign is near Ace Hardware)
>> as people try to turn Left at the light.  If they are planning that why did
>> they not pave an additional  TURN LEFT only lane????  As both lanes of
>> travel going straight are needed ??  What are they thinking ??
>>
>> Same thing going West.  the Reader sign is near Fred Meyers, telling
>> Walmart shoppers to stay in the right lane?  When I travel thru town in rush
>> hour
>> I use the right  lane through that area because the left lane is full of
>> people who turn left slowly,,, or suddenly decide they have to go to 7-11 or
>> the bank.
>>
>>
>> The sign placement tells me that they think that there will be quite a back
>> up,,, If they think it will cause that much of an issue, why isn't there
>> more lanes, more
>> of everything.  not just a READER Board "Thru traffic use this
>> lane,,,,Walmart Traffic use this lane" . I have to think that they believe
>> the traffic is going to be
>> backed up significantly because if not they are  insulting our intelligence
>> Like we would just continue driving in whatever lane and dive across and
>> turn left at
>> random.
>>
>> Yes I am not looking forward to the additional traffic clogging up
>> Cornelius.  I will probably avoid traveling through there all together,  I
>> wont stop at the
>> local business and purchase stuff on my way home, I will take back roads
>> from Hillsboro to get home.  Yet another affect that Cornelius business'
>> will feel from  the lack
>> of planning for traffic with Walmart.
>>
>> I dont feel anti walmart, I am feeling anti City of Cornelius.  They need
>> to set their traffic lights like Hillsboro, so you stop once and flow thru
>> at 30mph.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     
>>> From: g-g-steele at comcast.net
>>> To: grovenet at rdrop.com
>>> Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 08:21:44 -0700
>>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
>>>
>>> Yes, indeed. Everyone start scouting all alternate routes now!
>>>
>>> Used to take me about 6-8 minutes to get from Gales Creek Rd. near
>>>       
>> Thatcher,
>>     
>>> to Cornelius....  Aah, the 'old' days, lol!  But it's been quite a while
>>> since it took anything less than twice that.  And now it'll be worse.  On
>>> the other hand, I really hope this does for Cornelius what they want --
>>> without damaging F.G.!
>>>
>>> Geri
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>> From: "Walt Wentz" <waltw at teleport.com>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 8:10 AM
>>> To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
>>>
>>>       
>>>> I've been driving the route the past couple of days, and traffic
>>>> seems a little heavier both going and coming. I suspect that as more
>>>> people "discover" the new store, traffic will get progressively worse
>>>> even as local businesses struggle harder.
>>>> WW
>>>> On Aug 16, 2010, at 10:32 PM, donkelly wrote:
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>> Seemed to be working find today. I took the outside land because I
>>>>> was going home, not to Walmart. Did it open today or something?
>>>>>
>>>>> don
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: David Morelli <jo.david at verizon.net>
>>>>> To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
>>>>> Sent: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 05:26:33 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] I just called city of Cornelius and asked
>>>>>
>>>>> Question, what is the purpose for the new road next to Neal
>>>>> Armstrong?  Who paid for the work?
>>>>>
>>>>> David
>>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 16, 2010, at 4:40 PM, Holly Di wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>>>> I just called city of Cornelius and asked what are they going to do
>>>>>> besides pit up reader boards telling us what lane to use If we are
>>>>>> through traffic on eachside of the city?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I left voicemail for mr oppenheimer or something close to that. I say
>>>>>> we all call and tell them that is not enough
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (503) 357-3011
>>>>>>  Cornelius planning
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> GroveNet mailing list
>>>>>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>>>>>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>>>>>             
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> GroveNet mailing list
>>>>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>>>>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> GroveNet mailing list
>>>>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>>>>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>>>>           
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GroveNet mailing list
>>>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>>>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GroveNet mailing list
>>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>>       
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>
>>     
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
>   


From fgumc at teleport.com  Wed Aug 18 13:16:10 2010
From: fgumc at teleport.com (FGUMC)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 13:16:10 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Electric wheelchair service
Message-ID: <AEDE70E0BEEA44C7B78B0831AFD2DE05@MAINOFFICE>

Does anyone know where we can get an electric wheelchair serviced, without
breaking the bank?  Low cost is a major requirement.

 

The equipment is a 7 to 8 year old Victory electric wheelchair.  We suspect
the brake may be sticking, since the battery is drained after going only a
few blocks.

 

Any suggestions gratefully accepted.

 

Thanks,

Liz Swenson

 


From edavie at verizon.net  Wed Aug 18 13:28:42 2010
From: edavie at verizon.net (Ed Davie)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 13:28:42 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Electric wheelchair service
In-Reply-To: <AEDE70E0BEEA44C7B78B0831AFD2DE05@MAINOFFICE>
References: <AEDE70E0BEEA44C7B78B0831AFD2DE05@MAINOFFICE>
Message-ID: <84A13566D4344609922DE43D6372F767@EdDaviePC>

Call Beaverton Pharmacy!
Medical equipment.
Ed



From: FGUMC 
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 1:16 PM
To: grovenet at rdrop.com 
Subject: [Grovenet] Electric wheelchair service


Does anyone know where we can get an electric wheelchair serviced, without
breaking the bank?  Low cost is a major requirement.

 

The equipment is a 7 to 8 year old Victory electric wheelchair.  We suspect
the brake may be sticking, since the battery is drained after going only a
few blocks.

 

Any suggestions gratefully accepted.

 

Thanks,

Liz Swenson

 

_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

From edavie at verizon.net  Wed Aug 18 13:29:55 2010
From: edavie at verizon.net (Ed Davie)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 13:29:55 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Electric wheelchair service
In-Reply-To: <AEDE70E0BEEA44C7B78B0831AFD2DE05@MAINOFFICE>
References: <AEDE70E0BEEA44C7B78B0831AFD2DE05@MAINOFFICE>
Message-ID: <DE345BD5989840BDA5EC320A7E070003@EdDaviePC>

PS: Did you get my email with the Sept. calendar?
Thanks,
Ed


From: FGUMC 
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 1:16 PM
To: grovenet at rdrop.com 
Subject: [Grovenet] Electric wheelchair service


Does anyone know where we can get an electric wheelchair serviced, without
breaking the bank?  Low cost is a major requirement.

 

The equipment is a 7 to 8 year old Victory electric wheelchair.  We suspect
the brake may be sticking, since the battery is drained after going only a
few blocks.

 

Any suggestions gratefully accepted.

 

Thanks,

Liz Swenson

 

_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

From edavie at verizon.net  Wed Aug 18 14:38:52 2010
From: edavie at verizon.net (Ed Davie)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 14:38:52 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] (no subject)
Message-ID: <E01C62A782254E7C9C8879E64434C3C4@EdDaviePC>

Excuse the personal emails. I didn't realize the original was Grovenet and just replied!
Ed Davie, 

From dafracks at hotmail.com  Wed Aug 18 15:11:47 2010
From: dafracks at hotmail.com (Tracy Irwin)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 15:11:47 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] WalMart questions
In-Reply-To: <E01C62A782254E7C9C8879E64434C3C4@EdDaviePC>
References: <E01C62A782254E7C9C8879E64434C3C4@EdDaviePC>
Message-ID: <SNT119-W29DBDAA9A4D6EB485168B4C49D0@phx.gbl>



Well, I did, with a whole lot of other folks, try to discuss the traffic issue as the primary reason not to bring WalMart to Cornelius.  I was told by all of WalMart's wonderful legal and marketing staff that they traffic would be just dandy and we should not worry our pretty little heads about it one bit. So excuse me for not being too upset about it, I moved away from that area several years ago so I wouldn't have to deal with the inevitable traffic.
I'm not going to parade my sour grapes around Grovenet.
 
I hope Grande Foods and Bi-Mart will survive, because i want everyone to do well.  Time will tell I suppose.  
 
You can not consistently lower prices and pay people less and manipulate their health care costs to the Company's adavantage for long before you have everyone impoverished.  If that is the business model we all aspire to, America is surely sunk.
 
I have to say in my times as a poor, single mom, raising two kids I did not have access to a WalMart.  Look! I managed to make ends meet anyway!  Living within my means, what an old concept whose time is still here!
 
 
 
 
 
  		 	   		  

From kathyayala at msn.com  Wed Aug 18 15:33:28 2010
From: kathyayala at msn.com (Kathy Ayala)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 15:33:28 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] WalMart questions
In-Reply-To: <E01C62A782254E7C9C8879E64434C3C4@EdDaviePC>
	<SNT119-W29DBDAA9A4D6EB485168B4C49D0@phx.gbl>
References: <E01C62A782254E7C9C8879E64434C3C4@EdDaviePC>
	<SNT119-W29DBDAA9A4D6EB485168B4C49D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BLU133-DS351C1BC6CAB78625971B2DE9D0@phx.gbl>

I replied yesterday to what was being said regarding Wal-Mart vs. other store like Nike. They are all the same type of business plans. I have worked for Nike for many years and understand that many people can not afford to shop at all stores, I can not either. I would not purchase Nike shoes if I did not get a discount. But with all that being said I do not think anything will change with Wal-Mart here. I shop at Bi-Mart and go there for specific items the same with Grand Foods and will keep doing so. I raised my daughter by my self also and always had to make sure that we where taken care of. So I agree totally with you Tracy its all about not spending what you don't have, getting a good value for what you need (not what you want) and looking for the best deal you can for the items you purchase and making sure the bills are paid. Now that my daughter is grown and on her own I have a little more flexibility to shop in all types of stores but do watch every penny today just as I did back then because we never know what will happen tomorrow.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Tracy Irwin<mailto:dafracks at hotmail.com> 
  To: grovenet at rdrop.com<mailto:grovenet at rdrop.com> 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 3:11 PM
  Subject: Re: [Grovenet] WalMart questions




  Well, I did, with a whole lot of other folks, try to discuss the traffic issue as the primary reason not to bring WalMart to Cornelius.  I was told by all of WalMart's wonderful legal and marketing staff that they traffic would be just dandy and we should not worry our pretty little heads about it one bit. So excuse me for not being too upset about it, I moved away from that area several years ago so I wouldn't have to deal with the inevitable traffic.
  I'm not going to parade my sour grapes around Grovenet.
   
  I hope Grande Foods and Bi-Mart will survive, because i want everyone to do well.  Time will tell I suppose.  
   
  You can not consistently lower prices and pay people less and manipulate their health care costs to the Company's adavantage for long before you have everyone impoverished.  If that is the business model we all aspire to, America is surely sunk.
   
  I have to say in my times as a poor, single mom, raising two kids I did not have access to a WalMart.  Look! I managed to make ends meet anyway!  Living within my means, what an old concept whose time is still here!
   
   
   
   
   
         
  _______________________________________________
  GroveNet mailing list
  GroveNet at rdrop.com<mailto:GroveNet at rdrop.com>
  http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet<http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet>

From obrzl at verizon.net  Wed Aug 18 16:59:39 2010
From: obrzl at verizon.net (obrzl at verizon.net)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 18:59:39 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] WalMart questions
Message-ID: <665406937.238724.1282175979365.JavaMail.root@vms170057>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100818/dabed0f9/attachment.html 

From admin at ronhowden.com  Wed Aug 18 17:23:56 2010
From: admin at ronhowden.com (Ron Howden)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 17:23:56 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] WalMart questions
In-Reply-To: <665406937.238724.1282175979365.JavaMail.root@vms170057>
References: <665406937.238724.1282175979365.JavaMail.root@vms170057>
Message-ID: <022101cb3f34$d0f1fc00$72d5f400$@ronhowden.com>

I was just at Wal-Mart and the place is packed. The parking lot was full and there were 2 young men on 4th St. directing traffic.

I left without making a purchase.

Ron H.

 

From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On Behalf Of obrzl at verizon.net
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 5:00 PM
To: grovenet at rdrop.com
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] WalMart questions

 

In researching testimony for the WalMart hearings some years ago, I had occasion to speak with the county liaison for Metro/West.  This gent actually told me that Metro/West could "predict" where accidents would be occurring and stage their ambulances accordingly.  Asked to elaborate, he said he didn't know if they had a "crystal ball" but he was confident the ambulances would continue to meet the requirements of their contract with the county.

 

The contract requires, as I remember, that a certain percentage of emergency runs be accomplished within a specific time, say 90% of responses must be in five minutes or less.  I don't remember the exact specs, but was told Metro/West was exceeding the standard at that time.

 

Interestingly, the question of whether response time was (or is) deteriorating couldn't be answered.  Also unanswered was the question of how much longer the non-compliant times were and how they were changing.

 

Attending the WalMart hearings was also instructive.  The atmosphere was very much 'us versus them' and their supporters.  And their attitude was: it's all good, more is bertter, cheaper by the dozen, and if you're not with us you obviously hate America.

 

At one hearing an entire family came, or was brought in, from out of the area wearing matching smily-faced tee shirts.

 

And, as Tracy points out, WalMart's attitude seemed to be that they would do everything necessary to ameliorate their traffic impacts.

 

Now that the deal has been long closed with the City of Cornelius, the interesting thing is what happens if traffic does, in fact, get drastically worse.  Because WalMart is off the hook.

 

So, who will pay?  And if taxes increase, will it be because 'government spending is out of control'?  Or will it be that government institutions bend to the will of huge private interests with the deferred costs eventually being thrown back on taxpayers?

Mark

Aug 18, 2010 05:12:03 PM, grovenet at rdrop.com wrote:

>
>
>Well, I did, with a whole lot of other folks, try to discuss the traffic issue 
>as the primary reason not to bring WalMart to Cornelius. I was told by all of WalMart's 
>wonderful legal and marketing staff that they traffic would be just dandy and we 
>should not worry our pretty little heads about it one bit. So excuse me for not 
>being too upset about it, I moved away from that area several years ago so I wouldn't 
>have to deal with the inevitable traffic.
>I'm not going to parade my sour grapes around Grovenet.
> 
>I hope Grande Foods and Bi-Mart will survive, because i want everyone to do 
>well. Time will tell I suppose. 
> 
>You can not consistently lower prices and pay people less and manipulate their 
>health care costs to the Company's adavantage for long before you have everyone 
>impoverished. If that is the business model we all aspire to, America is surely 
>sunk.
> 
>I have to say in my times as a poor, single mom, raising two kids I did not 
>have access to a WalMart. Look! I managed to make ends meet anyway! Living within 
>my means, what an old concept whose time is still here!




From admin at ronhowden.com  Wed Aug 18 17:24:23 2010
From: admin at ronhowden.com (Ron Howden)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 17:24:23 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] WalMart questions
In-Reply-To: <665406937.238724.1282175979365.JavaMail.root@vms170057>
References: <665406937.238724.1282175979365.JavaMail.root@vms170057>
Message-ID: <022701cb3f34$e0e6c320$a2b44960$@ronhowden.com>

I was just at Wal-Mart and the place is packed. The parking lot was full and there were 2 young men on 4th St. directing traffic.

I left without making a purchase.

Ron H.

 

From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On Behalf Of obrzl at verizon.net
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 5:00 PM
To: grovenet at rdrop.com
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] WalMart questions

 

In researching testimony for the WalMart hearings some years ago, I had occasion to speak with the county liaison for Metro/West.  This gent actually told me that Metro/West could "predict" where accidents would be occurring and stage their ambulances accordingly.  Asked to elaborate, he said he didn't know if they had a "crystal ball" but he was confident the ambulances would continue to meet the requirements of their contract with the county.

 

The contract requires, as I remember, that a certain percentage of emergency runs be accomplished within a specific time, say 90% of responses must be in five minutes or less.  I don't remember the exact specs, but was told Metro/West was exceeding the standard at that time.

 

Interestingly, the question of whether response time was (or is) deteriorating couldn't be answered.  Also unanswered was the question of how much longer the non-compliant times were and how they were changing.

 

Attending the WalMart hearings was also instructive.  The atmosphere was very much 'us versus them' and their supporters.  And their attitude was: it's all good, more is bertter, cheaper by the dozen, and if you're not with us you obviously hate America.

 

At one hearing an entire family came, or was brought in, from out of the area wearing matching smily-faced tee shirts.

 

And, as Tracy points out, WalMart's attitude seemed to be that they would do everything necessary to ameliorate their traffic impacts.

 

Now that the deal has been long closed with the City of Cornelius, the interesting thing is what happens if traffic does, in fact, get drastically worse.  Because WalMart is off the hook.

 

So, who will pay?  And if taxes increase, will it be because 'government spending is out of control'?  Or will it be that government institutions bend to the will of huge private interests with the deferred costs eventually being thrown back on taxpayers?

Mark

Aug 18, 2010 05:12:03 PM, grovenet at rdrop.com wrote:

>
>
>Well, I did, with a whole lot of other folks, try to discuss the traffic issue 
>as the primary reason not to bring WalMart to Cornelius. I was told by all of WalMart's 
>wonderful legal and marketing staff that they traffic would be just dandy and we 
>should not worry our pretty little heads about it one bit. So excuse me for not 
>being too upset about it, I moved away from that area several years ago so I wouldn't 
>have to deal with the inevitable traffic.
>I'm not going to parade my sour grapes around Grovenet.
> 
>I hope Grande Foods and Bi-Mart will survive, because i want everyone to do 
>well. Time will tell I suppose. 
> 
>You can not consistently lower prices and pay people less and manipulate their 
>health care costs to the Company's adavantage for long before you have everyone 
>impoverished. If that is the business model we all aspire to, America is surely 
>sunk.
> 
>I have to say in my times as a poor, single mom, raising two kids I did not 
>have access to a WalMart. Look! I managed to make ends meet anyway! Living within 
>my means, what an old concept whose time is still here!




From khourym at verizon.net  Wed Aug 18 17:30:20 2010
From: khourym at verizon.net (Martha Khoury)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 17:30:20 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] WalMart questions
In-Reply-To: <022701cb3f34$e0e6c320$a2b44960$@ronhowden.com>
References: <665406937.238724.1282175979365.JavaMail.root@vms170057>
	<022701cb3f34$e0e6c320$a2b44960$@ronhowden.com>
Message-ID: <DF0C1262-7D4B-4915-8647-7828F7649F8C@verizon.net>

A friend of mine reported mariachi bands in the aisles. --MK



On Aug 18, 2010, at 5:24 PM, Ron Howden wrote:

> I was just at Wal-Mart and the place is packed. The parking lot was  
> full and there were 2 young men on 4th St. directing traffic.
>
> I left without making a purchase.
>
> Ron H.
>
>
>



From whatsupy2k at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 18 17:32:03 2010
From: whatsupy2k at yahoo.com (Vickie Madeoneup)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 17:32:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] Open Enrollment at Forest Grove Community School
In-Reply-To: <665406937.238724.1282175979365.JavaMail.root@vms170057>
References: <665406937.238724.1282175979365.JavaMail.root@vms170057>
Message-ID: <632612.79181.qm@web112415.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Open Enrollment at Forest Grove Community School
503-359-4600?????? www.fgcschool.org 
???? 
Forest Grove Community School is accepting applications for enrollment through 
October 1st, 2010 for grades 1-8. Forest Grove Community School is a free public 
charter school that engages students in scholarship, stewardship and citizenship 
with the goal of educating for sustainability.? At FGCS, students, parents and 
teachers develop personal learning plans that give students the chance to 
develop their special talents and interests. All classes spend at least one half 
day each week engaged in learning activities in the community, frequently 
outdoors, including in our school garden. We provide a smaller, caring school 
environment that offers an alternative public school choice. To schedule a tour 
or classroom visit, contact Vickie Jares at v.jares at fgcschool.org. For more 
information, visit our web site at www.fgcschool.org.


      

From jo.david at verizon.net  Wed Aug 18 21:39:20 2010
From: jo.david at verizon.net (David Morelli)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 21:39:20 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] WalMart questions
In-Reply-To: <BLU133-DS351C1BC6CAB78625971B2DE9D0@phx.gbl>
References: <E01C62A782254E7C9C8879E64434C3C4@EdDaviePC>
	<SNT119-W29DBDAA9A4D6EB485168B4C49D0@phx.gbl>
	<BLU133-DS351C1BC6CAB78625971B2DE9D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4D42764B-F322-4943-A7EB-6A38CF20224A@verizon.net>

As I understand it, Henry Ford had a different business plan.  

He payed his workers and priced his product to allow his workers to purchase the product that they produced.  

Needless to say he wasn't very successful with that way of doing business.  And everyone branded him as a "Communist".

Not.

David

On Aug 18, 2010, at 3:33 PM, Kathy Ayala wrote:

> I replied yesterday to what was being said regarding Wal-Mart vs. other store like Nike. They are all the same type of business plans. I have worked for Nike for many years and understand that many people can not afford to shop at all stores, I can not either. I would not purchase Nike shoes if I did not get a discount. ...



From jo.david at verizon.net  Wed Aug 18 22:10:54 2010
From: jo.david at verizon.net (David Morelli)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 22:10:54 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] WalMart questions
In-Reply-To: <SNT119-W29DBDAA9A4D6EB485168B4C49D0@phx.gbl>
References: <E01C62A782254E7C9C8879E64434C3C4@EdDaviePC>
	<SNT119-W29DBDAA9A4D6EB485168B4C49D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <AE0AEEAE-73FB-475A-878F-98FBEBDF9C9A@verizon.net>

Actually, what they told Cornelius was that traffic would remain below failure levels.  And they didn't use the traffic rates for a Walmart, they used the lower traffic rates for a generic shopping center.

From the application documentation:
<quote>
As shown in Table 3, the proposed development is expected to generate approximately 9,950 daily trips of which approximately 220 total trips will occur during the weekday a.m. peak hour, 920 during the weekday p.m. peak hour, and 1,270 total trips will occur during the Saturday mid-day peak hour.  Assuming a pass-by trip reduction factor of 34 percent for daily, weekday a.m., and weekday p.m., and 26 percent pass-by factor on Saturday, the site is estimated to generate approximately 6,570 net new trips on an average weekday, of which approximately 140 net new trips are estimated to occur during the weekday a.m. peak hour, with 600 net new trips occurring during the weekday p.m. peak hour, and 940 net new trips occurring during the Saturday mid-day peak hour.

I should be emphasized that although the overall size of the retail center, by City definition, is greater than 200,000 square feet, only 179,902 square feet was used as the basis for the site trip generation.  This is because the relative difference in square footage applies to the "open air" garden area located outside the main confines of the building structure.  The ITE trip generation rates for a Shopping Center land use do not apply to areas outside the primary walls of the structure.
</quote>

David





On Aug 18, 2010, at 3:11 PM, Tracy Irwin wrote:

> 
> 
> Well, I did, with a whole lot of other folks, try to discuss the traffic issue as the primary reason not to bring WalMart to Cornelius.  I was told by all of WalMart's wonderful legal and marketing staff that they traffic would be just dandy and we should not worry our pretty little heads about it one bit. So excuse me for not being too upset about it, I moved away from that area several years ago so I wouldn't have to deal with the inevitable traffic.
> I'm not going to parade my sour grapes around Grovenet. ...

From allnutt at verizon.net  Wed Aug 18 22:30:03 2010
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 22:30:03 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] WalMart questions
In-Reply-To: <AE0AEEAE-73FB-475A-878F-98FBEBDF9C9A@verizon.net>
References: <E01C62A782254E7C9C8879E64434C3C4@EdDaviePC>
	<SNT119-W29DBDAA9A4D6EB485168B4C49D0@phx.gbl>
	<AE0AEEAE-73FB-475A-878F-98FBEBDF9C9A@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <37C05E64-5B7B-414D-85C0-069222241B21@verizon.net>

I had heard some rumors about Walmart trying hard to use out of state  
labor during the construction phase but I wasn't sure whether to  
believe it.
Then today in the newspaper the report said the manager was hoping to  
get a list of local contractors in case something needed to be fixed  
so  they could call on someone locally.  I realized then, that if  
they had used local contractors to begin with, they would already  
have a list at hand so the initial rumors became much more believable.

That sort of sums up the whole attitude. Talk a good game about being  
all for the community but only give them the crumbs when all is said  
and done.
It sounds like they were so sincerely (not!)  concerned about local  
traffic impact when they used generic shopping center numbers and  
left out the 20K square feet too.


Katie

On Aug 18, 2010, at 10:10 PM, David Morelli wrote:

> Actually, what they told Cornelius was that traffic would remain  
> below failure levels.  And they didn't use the traffic rates for a  
> Walmart, they used the lower traffic rates for a generic shopping  
> center.
>
>> From the application documentation:
> <quote>
> As shown in Table 3, the proposed development is expected to  
> generate approximately 9,950 daily trips of which approximately 220  
> total trips will occur during the weekday a.m. peak hour, 920  
> during the weekday p.m. peak hour, and 1,270 total trips will occur  
> during the Saturday mid-day peak hour.  Assuming a pass-by trip  
> reduction factor of 34 percent for daily, weekday a.m., and weekday  
> p.m., and 26 percent pass-by factor on Saturday, the site is  
> estimated to generate approximately 6,570 net new trips on an  
> average weekday, of which approximately 140 net new trips are  
> estimated to occur during the weekday a.m. peak hour, with 600 net  
> new trips occurring during the weekday p.m. peak hour, and 940 net  
> new trips occurring during the Saturday mid-day peak hour.
>
> I should be emphasized that although the overall size of the retail  
> center, by City definition, is greater than 200,000 square feet,  
> only 179,902 square feet was used as the basis for the site trip  
> generation.  This is because the relative difference in square  
> footage applies to the "open air" garden area located outside the  
> main confines of the building structure.  The ITE trip generation  
> rates for a Shopping Center land use do not apply to areas outside  
> the primary walls of the structure.
> </quote>
>
> David
>
>
>
>
>
> On Aug 18, 2010, at 3:11 PM, Tracy Irwin wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Well, I did, with a whole lot of other folks, try to discuss the  
>> traffic issue as the primary reason not to bring WalMart to  
>> Cornelius.  I was told by all of WalMart's wonderful legal and  
>> marketing staff that they traffic would be just dandy and we  
>> should not worry our pretty little heads about it one bit. So  
>> excuse me for not being too upset about it, I moved away from that  
>> area several years ago so I wouldn't have to deal with the  
>> inevitable traffic.
>> I'm not going to parade my sour grapes around Grovenet. ...
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From redwagonfun at gmail.com  Thu Aug 19 08:14:56 2010
From: redwagonfun at gmail.com (Marian Cakarnis)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 08:14:56 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] WalMart questions
In-Reply-To: <37C05E64-5B7B-414D-85C0-069222241B21@verizon.net>
References: <E01C62A782254E7C9C8879E64434C3C4@EdDaviePC><SNT119-W29DBDAA9A4D6EB485168B4C49D0@phx.gbl><AE0AEEAE-73FB-475A-878F-98FBEBDF9C9A@verizon.net>
	<37C05E64-5B7B-414D-85C0-069222241B21@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <380AE436C9854147AAE3710FFE260D77@JeffVAIO>

Greed and self-serving, short-term attitudes easily explain the decisions 
made by WalMart (the same as the vast majority of corporations which are 
answerable to their shareholders).  They used non-local contractors because 
it was probably a corporate decision and purely based on immediate short 
term cost.  Most likely, it is up to the store manager to handle any ongoing 
maintenance and he may need local contractors for a quicker response, etc.

I also abhor WalMart's business practices, but I don't think it's all that 
much different than many other large corporation's business practices.  Yes, 
some are worse than others, but I'll bet if you looked into your investment 
holdings, (401K, mutual funds, etc), you probably also have ownership in 
many of these corporations, including WalMart.  So, as much as I hate to say 
it, we are part of the problem.

Marian



--------------------------------------------------
From: "Katie Allnutt" <allnutt at verizon.net>
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 10:30 PM
To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] WalMart questions

> I had heard some rumors about Walmart trying hard to use out of state
> labor during the construction phase but I wasn't sure whether to
> believe it.
> Then today in the newspaper the report said the manager was hoping to
> get a list of local contractors in case something needed to be fixed
> so  they could call on someone locally.  I realized then, that if
> they had used local contractors to begin with, they would already
> have a list at hand so the initial rumors became much more believable.
>
> That sort of sums up the whole attitude. Talk a good game about being
> all for the community but only give them the crumbs when all is said
> and done.
> It sounds like they were so sincerely (not!)  concerned about local
> traffic impact when they used generic shopping center numbers and
> left out the 20K square feet too.
>
>
> Katie
>
> On Aug 18, 2010, at 10:10 PM, David Morelli wrote:
>
>> Actually, what they told Cornelius was that traffic would remain
>> below failure levels.  And they didn't use the traffic rates for a
>> Walmart, they used the lower traffic rates for a generic shopping
>> center.
>>
>>> From the application documentation:
>> <quote>
>> As shown in Table 3, the proposed development is expected to
>> generate approximately 9,950 daily trips of which approximately 220
>> total trips will occur during the weekday a.m. peak hour, 920
>> during the weekday p.m. peak hour, and 1,270 total trips will occur
>> during the Saturday mid-day peak hour.  Assuming a pass-by trip
>> reduction factor of 34 percent for daily, weekday a.m., and weekday
>> p.m., and 26 percent pass-by factor on Saturday, the site is
>> estimated to generate approximately 6,570 net new trips on an
>> average weekday, of which approximately 140 net new trips are
>> estimated to occur during the weekday a.m. peak hour, with 600 net
>> new trips occurring during the weekday p.m. peak hour, and 940 net
>> new trips occurring during the Saturday mid-day peak hour.
>>
>> I should be emphasized that although the overall size of the retail
>> center, by City definition, is greater than 200,000 square feet,
>> only 179,902 square feet was used as the basis for the site trip
>> generation.  This is because the relative difference in square
>> footage applies to the "open air" garden area located outside the
>> main confines of the building structure.  The ITE trip generation
>> rates for a Shopping Center land use do not apply to areas outside
>> the primary walls of the structure.
>> </quote>
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 18, 2010, at 3:11 PM, Tracy Irwin wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Well, I did, with a whole lot of other folks, try to discuss the
>>> traffic issue as the primary reason not to bring WalMart to
>>> Cornelius.  I was told by all of WalMart's wonderful legal and
>>> marketing staff that they traffic would be just dandy and we
>>> should not worry our pretty little heads about it one bit. So
>>> excuse me for not being too upset about it, I moved away from that
>>> area several years ago so I wouldn't have to deal with the
>>> inevitable traffic.
>>> I'm not going to parade my sour grapes around Grovenet. ...
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> 


From jo.david at verizon.net  Thu Aug 19 22:38:25 2010
From: jo.david at verizon.net (David Morelli)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 22:38:25 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] WalMart questions
In-Reply-To: <380AE436C9854147AAE3710FFE260D77@JeffVAIO>
References: <E01C62A782254E7C9C8879E64434C3C4@EdDaviePC><SNT119-W29DBDAA9A4D6EB485168B4C49D0@phx.gbl><AE0AEEAE-73FB-475A-878F-98FBEBDF9C9A@verizon.net>
	<37C05E64-5B7B-414D-85C0-069222241B21@verizon.net>
	<380AE436C9854147AAE3710FFE260D77@JeffVAIO>
Message-ID: <734081F0-F2FE-45C9-9848-F9F6CADC0AF4@verizon.net>

I would offer my opinion that publicly traded companies are NOT run for the benefit of the average share holders.  They are run for the benefit of the board of directors, the corporate officers and institutional investors.  Any benefit to the rest of the shareholders is incidental.

David


On Aug 19, 2010, at 8:14 AM, Marian Cakarnis wrote:

> Greed and self-serving, short-term attitudes easily explain the decisions made by WalMart (the same as the vast majority of corporations which are answerable to their shareholders).  ...



From redwagonfun at gmail.com  Thu Aug 19 22:52:39 2010
From: redwagonfun at gmail.com (Marian Cakarnis)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 22:52:39 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] WalMart questions
In-Reply-To: <734081F0-F2FE-45C9-9848-F9F6CADC0AF4@verizon.net>
References: <E01C62A782254E7C9C8879E64434C3C4@EdDaviePC><SNT119-W29DBDAA9A4D6EB485168B4C49D0@phx.gbl><AE0AEEAE-73FB-475A-878F-98FBEBDF9C9A@verizon.net><37C05E64-5B7B-414D-85C0-069222241B21@verizon.net><380AE436C9854147AAE3710FFE260D77@JeffVAIO>
	<734081F0-F2FE-45C9-9848-F9F6CADC0AF4@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <3FDD7B3A65FF464EB9CBC853942A4648@JeffVAIO>

I am 100% in agreement with you!
-marian

--------------------------------------------------
From: "David Morelli" <jo.david at verizon.net>
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 10:38 PM
To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] WalMart questions

> I would offer my opinion that publicly traded companies are NOT run for 
> the benefit of the average share holders.  They are run for the benefit of 
> the board of directors, the corporate officers and institutional 
> investors.  Any benefit to the rest of the shareholders is incidental.
>
> David
>
>
> On Aug 19, 2010, at 8:14 AM, Marian Cakarnis wrote:
>
>> Greed and self-serving, short-term attitudes easily explain the decisions 
>> made by WalMart (the same as the vast majority of corporations which are 
>> answerable to their shareholders).  ...
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> 


From adamsmayer at gmail.com  Fri Aug 20 06:18:10 2010
From: adamsmayer at gmail.com (Adam Mayer)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 06:18:10 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] WalMart questions
In-Reply-To: <37C05E64-5B7B-414D-85C0-069222241B21@verizon.net>
References: <E01C62A782254E7C9C8879E64434C3C4@EdDaviePC>
	<SNT119-W29DBDAA9A4D6EB485168B4C49D0@phx.gbl>	<AE0AEEAE-73FB-475A-878F-98FBEBDF9C9A@verizon.net>
	<37C05E64-5B7B-414D-85C0-069222241B21@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <4C6E8092.7010700@gmail.com>

I worked in retail management for a national corporation back in the 
early 90's when I was in school.  There is probably a list of local 
people to use but it's known by someone in the corporate office.  I'm 
not surprised that the store manager doesn't have a list, from my own 
experiences of being moved around to different stores in different 
neighborhoods, you walk in pretty blind.

For example one of the stores I was just brought into years ago, the 
roof or some sort of construction was going on in the building.  I come 
in one morning and I'm told that one of the toilets is clogged up.  I 
pulled out the yellow pages (told you it was a long time ago) and found 
a plumber who came and found a ball of fiberglass in the pipe.  My 
district manager told me afterwards that he was glad that I took action 
and got the problem solved, but since I didn't use someone on their list 
of approved local plumbers (and other local contractors) that they were 
angry in corporate.  He said that I have nothing to worry about, he will 
take care of it, but in the future call him immediately so he can give 
me the name of whom I was allowed to call.

Adam

Katie Allnutt wrote:
> I had heard some rumors about Walmart trying hard to use out of state  
> labor during the construction phase but I wasn't sure whether to  
> believe it.
> Then today in the newspaper the report said the manager was hoping to  
> get a list of local contractors in case something needed to be fixed  
> so  they could call on someone locally.  I realized then, that if  
> they had used local contractors to begin with, they would already  
> have a list at hand so the initial rumors became much more believable.
>
> That sort of sums up the whole attitude. Talk a good game about being  
> all for the community but only give them the crumbs when all is said  
> and done.
> It sounds like they were so sincerely (not!)  concerned about local  
> traffic impact when they used generic shopping center numbers and  
> left out the 20K square feet too.
>
>
> Katie
>
> On Aug 18, 2010, at 10:10 PM, David Morelli wrote:
>
>   
>> Actually, what they told Cornelius was that traffic would remain  
>> below failure levels.  And they didn't use the traffic rates for a  
>> Walmart, they used the lower traffic rates for a generic shopping  
>> center.
>>
>>     
>>> From the application documentation:
>>>       
>> <quote>
>> As shown in Table 3, the proposed development is expected to  
>> generate approximately 9,950 daily trips of which approximately 220  
>> total trips will occur during the weekday a.m. peak hour, 920  
>> during the weekday p.m. peak hour, and 1,270 total trips will occur  
>> during the Saturday mid-day peak hour.  Assuming a pass-by trip  
>> reduction factor of 34 percent for daily, weekday a.m., and weekday  
>> p.m., and 26 percent pass-by factor on Saturday, the site is  
>> estimated to generate approximately 6,570 net new trips on an  
>> average weekday, of which approximately 140 net new trips are  
>> estimated to occur during the weekday a.m. peak hour, with 600 net  
>> new trips occurring during the weekday p.m. peak hour, and 940 net  
>> new trips occurring during the Saturday mid-day peak hour.
>>
>> I should be emphasized that although the overall size of the retail  
>> center, by City definition, is greater than 200,000 square feet,  
>> only 179,902 square feet was used as the basis for the site trip  
>> generation.  This is because the relative difference in square  
>> footage applies to the "open air" garden area located outside the  
>> main confines of the building structure.  The ITE trip generation  
>> rates for a Shopping Center land use do not apply to areas outside  
>> the primary walls of the structure.
>> </quote>
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 18, 2010, at 3:11 PM, Tracy Irwin wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> Well, I did, with a whole lot of other folks, try to discuss the  
>>> traffic issue as the primary reason not to bring WalMart to  
>>> Cornelius.  I was told by all of WalMart's wonderful legal and  
>>> marketing staff that they traffic would be just dandy and we  
>>> should not worry our pretty little heads about it one bit. So  
>>> excuse me for not being too upset about it, I moved away from that  
>>> area several years ago so I wouldn't have to deal with the  
>>> inevitable traffic.
>>> I'm not going to parade my sour grapes around Grovenet. ...
>>>       
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>     
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
>   


From NoSpam03 at comcast.net  Fri Aug 20 07:34:41 2010
From: NoSpam03 at comcast.net (Steven)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 07:34:41 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] WalMart questions
In-Reply-To: <3FDD7B3A65FF464EB9CBC853942A4648@JeffVAIO>
References: <E01C62A782254E7C9C8879E64434C3C4@EdDaviePC><SNT119-W29DBDAA9A4D6EB485168B4C49D0@phx.gbl><AE0AEEAE-73FB-475A-878F-98FBEBDF9C9A@verizon.net><37C05E64-5B7B-414D-85C0-069222241B21@verizon.net><380AE436C9854147AAE3710FFE260D77@JeffVAIO>
	<734081F0-F2FE-45C9-9848-F9F6CADC0AF4@verizon.net>
	<3FDD7B3A65FF464EB9CBC853942A4648@JeffVAIO>
Message-ID: <001001cb4074$d3a7e1d0$7af7a570$@net>

I find that government offices are run for the benefit of those employed by
the government.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
> Behalf Of Marian Cakarnis
> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 10:53 PM
> To: Forest Grove local interests list
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] WalMart questions
> 
> I am 100% in agreement with you!
> -marian
> 
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "David Morelli" <jo.david at verizon.net>
> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 10:38 PM
> To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] WalMart questions
> 
> > I would offer my opinion that publicly traded companies are NOT run
> for
> > the benefit of the average share holders.  They are run for the
> benefit of
> > the board of directors, the corporate officers and institutional
> > investors.  Any benefit to the rest of the shareholders is
> incidental.
> >
> > David
> >
> >
> > On Aug 19, 2010, at 8:14 AM, Marian Cakarnis wrote:
> >
> >> Greed and self-serving, short-term attitudes easily explain the
> decisions
> >> made by WalMart (the same as the vast majority of corporations which
> are
> >> answerable to their shareholders).  ...
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GroveNet mailing list
> > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From allnutt at verizon.net  Fri Aug 20 08:27:10 2010
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 08:27:10 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] WalMart questions
In-Reply-To: <001001cb4074$d3a7e1d0$7af7a570$@net>
References: <E01C62A782254E7C9C8879E64434C3C4@EdDaviePC><SNT119-W29DBDAA9A4D6EB485168B4C49D0@phx.gbl><AE0AEEAE-73FB-475A-878F-98FBEBDF9C9A@verizon.net><37C05E64-5B7B-414D-85C0-069222241B21@verizon.net><380AE436C9854147AAE3710FFE260D77@JeffVAIO>
	<734081F0-F2FE-45C9-9848-F9F6CADC0AF4@verizon.net>
	<3FDD7B3A65FF464EB9CBC853942A4648@JeffVAIO>
	<001001cb4074$d3a7e1d0$7af7a570$@net>
Message-ID: <3D4BCDEE-E0DA-4D72-847A-7289C1BFB778@verizon.net>

What country is it that you live in again???
In the good ole' USA the army fights for all the people.
The EPA protects the water/air for all the people (plus it is hard to  
separate the air for the benefit of a select group).
And the CDC recalls eggs for everyone.
Maybe in your country it is different. If you would like to have a  
country as a role model the US is a darn good one.

Katie
Proud to be an American




On Aug 20, 2010, at 7:34 AM, Steven wrote:

> I find that government offices are run for the benefit of those  
> employed by
> the government.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet- 
>> bounces at rdrop.com] On
>> Behalf Of Marian Cakarnis
>> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 10:53 PM
>> To: Forest Grove local interests list
>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] WalMart questions
>>
>> I am 100% in agreement with you!
>> -marian
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "David Morelli" <jo.david at verizon.net>
>> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 10:38 PM
>> To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] WalMart questions
>>
>>> I would offer my opinion that publicly traded companies are NOT run
>> for
>>> the benefit of the average share holders.  They are run for the
>> benefit of
>>> the board of directors, the corporate officers and institutional
>>> investors.  Any benefit to the rest of the shareholders is
>> incidental.
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>>
>>> On Aug 19, 2010, at 8:14 AM, Marian Cakarnis wrote:
>>>
>>>> Greed and self-serving, short-term attitudes easily explain the
>> decisions
>>>> made by WalMart (the same as the vast majority of corporations  
>>>> which
>> are
>>>> answerable to their shareholders).  ...
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GroveNet mailing list
>>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From nospam03 at comcast.net  Fri Aug 20 08:54:42 2010
From: nospam03 at comcast.net (Steve)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 15:54:42 +0000
Subject: [Grovenet] WalMart questions
In-Reply-To: <3D4BCDEE-E0DA-4D72-847A-7289C1BFB778@verizon.net>
References: <E01C62A782254E7C9C8879E64434C3C4@EdDaviePC><SNT119-W29DBDAA9A4D6EB485168B4C49D0@phx.gbl><AE0AEEAE-73FB-475A-878F-98FBEBDF9C9A@verizon.net><37C05E64-5B7B-414D-85C0-069222241B21@verizon.net><380AE436C9854147AAE3710FFE260D77@JeffVAIO><734081F0-F2FE-45C9-9848-F9F6CADC0AF4@verizon.net><3FDD7B3A65FF464EB9CBC853942A4648@JeffVAIO><001001cb4074$d3a7e1d0$7af7a570$@net><3D4BCDEE-E0DA-4D72-847A-7289C1BFB778@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <1025049388-1282319687-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-226170260-@bda284.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

So all government is good and all business is bad. 
And where does this economy come from?  It was caused by government, you know. 
The state employees union doesn't care about me. They control our budgets. 
And so on ...
-----Original Message-----
From: Katie Allnutt <allnutt at verizon.net>
Sender: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 08:27:10 
To: Forest Grove local interests list<grovenet at rdrop.com>
Reply-To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] WalMart questions

What country is it that you live in again???
In the good ole' USA the army fights for all the people.
The EPA protects the water/air for all the people (plus it is hard to  
separate the air for the benefit of a select group).
And the CDC recalls eggs for everyone.
Maybe in your country it is different. If you would like to have a  
country as a role model the US is a darn good one.

Katie
Proud to be an American




On Aug 20, 2010, at 7:34 AM, Steven wrote:

> I find that government offices are run for the benefit of those  
> employed by
> the government.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet- 
>> bounces at rdrop.com] On
>> Behalf Of Marian Cakarnis
>> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 10:53 PM
>> To: Forest Grove local interests list
>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] WalMart questions
>>
>> I am 100% in agreement with you!
>> -marian
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "David Morelli" <jo.david at verizon.net>
>> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 10:38 PM
>> To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] WalMart questions
>>
>>> I would offer my opinion that publicly traded companies are NOT run
>> for
>>> the benefit of the average share holders.  They are run for the
>> benefit of
>>> the board of directors, the corporate officers and institutional
>>> investors.  Any benefit to the rest of the shareholders is
>> incidental.
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>>
>>> On Aug 19, 2010, at 8:14 AM, Marian Cakarnis wrote:
>>>
>>>> Greed and self-serving, short-term attitudes easily explain the
>> decisions
>>>> made by WalMart (the same as the vast majority of corporations  
>>>> which
>> are
>>>> answerable to their shareholders).  ...
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GroveNet mailing list
>>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From allnutt at verizon.net  Fri Aug 20 08:59:36 2010
From: allnutt at verizon.net (Katie Allnutt)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 08:59:36 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] WalMart questions
In-Reply-To: <1025049388-1282319687-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-226170260-@bda284.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <E01C62A782254E7C9C8879E64434C3C4@EdDaviePC><SNT119-W29DBDAA9A4D6EB485168B4C49D0@phx.gbl><AE0AEEAE-73FB-475A-878F-98FBEBDF9C9A@verizon.net><37C05E64-5B7B-414D-85C0-069222241B21@verizon.net><380AE436C9854147AAE3710FFE260D77@JeffVAIO><734081F0-F2FE-45C9-9848-F9F6CADC0AF4@verizon.net><3FDD7B3A65FF464EB9CBC853942A4648@JeffVAIO><001001cb4074$d3a7e1d0$7af7a570$@net><3D4BCDEE-E0DA-4D72-847A-7289C1BFB778@verizon.net>
	<1025049388-1282319687-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-226170260-@bda284.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <76008633-D306-4756-9FB0-5A44BDD9AA62@verizon.net>

I should have said FDA recalls eggs for everyone. Sorry.

Katie

On Aug 20, 2010, at 8:54 AM, Steve wrote:

> So all government is good and all business is bad.
> And where does this economy come from?  It was caused by  
> government, you know.
> The state employees union doesn't care about me. They control our  
> budgets.
> And so on ...
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Katie Allnutt <allnutt at verizon.net>
> Sender: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com
> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 08:27:10
> To: Forest Grove local interests list<grovenet at rdrop.com>
> Reply-To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] WalMart questions
>
> What country is it that you live in again???
> In the good ole' USA the army fights for all the people.
> The EPA protects the water/air for all the people (plus it is hard to
> separate the air for the benefit of a select group).
> And the CDC recalls eggs for everyone.
> Maybe in your country it is different. If you would like to have a
> country as a role model the US is a darn good one.
>
> Katie
> Proud to be an American
>
>
>
>
> On Aug 20, 2010, at 7:34 AM, Steven wrote:
>
>> I find that government offices are run for the benefit of those
>> employed by
>> the government.
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-
>>> bounces at rdrop.com] On
>>> Behalf Of Marian Cakarnis
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 10:53 PM
>>> To: Forest Grove local interests list
>>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] WalMart questions
>>>
>>> I am 100% in agreement with you!
>>> -marian
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>> From: "David Morelli" <jo.david at verizon.net>
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 10:38 PM
>>> To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] WalMart questions
>>>
>>>> I would offer my opinion that publicly traded companies are NOT run
>>> for
>>>> the benefit of the average share holders.  They are run for the
>>> benefit of
>>>> the board of directors, the corporate officers and institutional
>>>> investors.  Any benefit to the rest of the shareholders is
>>> incidental.
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 19, 2010, at 8:14 AM, Marian Cakarnis wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Greed and self-serving, short-term attitudes easily explain the
>>> decisions
>>>>> made by WalMart (the same as the vast majority of corporations
>>>>> which
>>> are
>>>>> answerable to their shareholders).  ...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GroveNet mailing list
>>>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>>>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GroveNet mailing list
>>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From k.wilke at mac.com  Sat Aug 21 22:22:17 2010
From: k.wilke at mac.com (Kurt Wilke)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 22:22:17 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Keith Olbermann Special Comment: There Is No 'Ground
	Zero Mosque' - 08/16/10
In-Reply-To: <SNT119-W29DBDAA9A4D6EB485168B4C49D0@phx.gbl>
References: <E01C62A782254E7C9C8879E64434C3C4@EdDaviePC>
	<SNT119-W29DBDAA9A4D6EB485168B4C49D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <EC6F4C6E-FC3A-4F3E-AF8C-CAA5C7E96A83@mac.com>

Worth listening to. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuFUCW4qrL0


Kurt



From jo.david at verizon.net  Sun Aug 22 10:07:55 2010
From: jo.david at verizon.net (David Morelli)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 10:07:55 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Keith Olbermann Special Comment: There Is No
	'Ground	Zero Mosque' - 08/16/10
In-Reply-To: <EC6F4C6E-FC3A-4F3E-AF8C-CAA5C7E96A83@mac.com>
References: <E01C62A782254E7C9C8879E64434C3C4@EdDaviePC>
	<SNT119-W29DBDAA9A4D6EB485168B4C49D0@phx.gbl>
	<EC6F4C6E-FC3A-4F3E-AF8C-CAA5C7E96A83@mac.com>
Message-ID: <C204CDD6-15B4-49CA-9162-6E4F0E172D27@verizon.net>

I had never known the context of Rev. Neimoller's "First they came for ..." quote.

That takes it out of the context of a figurative, symbolic sermon, and put it into a literal, descriptive statement of facts.  He wasn't phrasing a warning about social consequences, rather he was describing how he came to be imprisoned by the Nazi's even though he was a supporter of their agenda.

I must admit that, on this issue, I was taken by Bob Cesca's comparison of a social center/mosque two blocks from where Muslim extremists killed thousands of Americans at the World Trade Center, to a statue commemorating Robert E. Lee on the battlefield of Gettysburg where Southern soldiers killed thousands of American soldiers.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-cesca/ground-zero-mosque-oppone_b_685164.html

David

On Aug 21, 2010, at 10:22 PM, Kurt Wilke wrote:

> Worth listening to. 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuFUCW4qrL0
> 
> 
> Kurt
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet




From nospam03 at comcast.net  Sun Aug 22 10:24:38 2010
From: nospam03 at comcast.net (Steve)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 17:24:38 +0000
Subject: [Grovenet] Keith Olbermann Special Comment: There Is
	No'Ground	Zero Mosque' - 08/16/10
In-Reply-To: <C204CDD6-15B4-49CA-9162-6E4F0E172D27@verizon.net>
References: <E01C62A782254E7C9C8879E64434C3C4@EdDaviePC><SNT119-W29DBDAA9A4D6EB485168B4C49D0@phx.gbl><EC6F4C6E-FC3A-4F3E-AF8C-CAA5C7E96A83@mac.com><C204CDD6-15B4-49CA-9162-6E4F0E172D27@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <172427537-1282497885-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-151424966-@bda284.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Would you compare it to a tribute to nazis at a german concentration camp?
-----Original Message-----
From: David Morelli <jo.david at verizon.net>
Sender: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 10:07:55 
To: Forest Grove local interests list<grovenet at rdrop.com>
Reply-To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Keith Olbermann Special Comment: There Is No
	'Ground	Zero Mosque' - 08/16/10

I had never known the context of Rev. Neimoller's "First they came for ..." quote.

That takes it out of the context of a figurative, symbolic sermon, and put it into a literal, descriptive statement of facts.  He wasn't phrasing a warning about social consequences, rather he was describing how he came to be imprisoned by the Nazi's even though he was a supporter of their agenda.

I must admit that, on this issue, I was taken by Bob Cesca's comparison of a social center/mosque two blocks from where Muslim extremists killed thousands of Americans at the World Trade Center, to a statue commemorating Robert E. Lee on the battlefield of Gettysburg where Southern soldiers killed thousands of American soldiers.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-cesca/ground-zero-mosque-oppone_b_685164.html

David

On Aug 21, 2010, at 10:22 PM, Kurt Wilke wrote:

> Worth listening to. 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuFUCW4qrL0
> 
> 
> Kurt
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From jo.david at verizon.net  Sun Aug 22 12:54:53 2010
From: jo.david at verizon.net (David Morelli)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 12:54:53 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Keith Olbermann Special Comment: There Is	No'Ground
	Zero Mosque' - 08/16/10
In-Reply-To: <172427537-1282497885-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-151424966-@bda284.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <E01C62A782254E7C9C8879E64434C3C4@EdDaviePC><SNT119-W29DBDAA9A4D6EB485168B4C49D0@phx.gbl><EC6F4C6E-FC3A-4F3E-AF8C-CAA5C7E96A83@mac.com><C204CDD6-15B4-49CA-9162-6E4F0E172D27@verizon.net>
	<172427537-1282497885-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-151424966-@bda284.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <6B194C44-6E5C-4AAA-8ED2-4384033FECFA@verizon.net>

The Lee statue?  maybe.

Considering that some of the American first providers who died in the Trade Center were Muslims, and some of the victims within the Trade Center were Muslims, I would not agree with those who claim that a muslim prayer site built by muslims who decried the attack is somehow inappropriate.

David

On Aug 22, 2010, at 10:24 AM, Steve wrote:

> Would you compare it to a tribute to nazis at a german concentration camp?



From edavie at verizon.net  Sun Aug 22 14:30:12 2010
From: edavie at verizon.net (Ed Davie)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 14:30:12 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Keith Olbermann Special Comment: There Is No
	'Ground	Zero Mosque' - 08/16/10
In-Reply-To: <EC6F4C6E-FC3A-4F3E-AF8C-CAA5C7E96A83@mac.com>
References: <E01C62A782254E7C9C8879E64434C3C4@EdDaviePC>
	<SNT119-W29DBDAA9A4D6EB485168B4C49D0@phx.gbl>
	<EC6F4C6E-FC3A-4F3E-AF8C-CAA5C7E96A83@mac.com>
Message-ID: <40E5BDC4A5984483B4FD526336CC0F39@EdDaviePC>

All I can say is "WOW".
Ed




From: Kurt Wilke 
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 10:22 PM
To: Forest Grove local interests list 
Subject: [Grovenet] Keith Olbermann Special Comment: There Is No 'Ground Zero Mosque' - 08/16/10


Worth listening to. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuFUCW4qrL0


Kurt


_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

From waltw at teleport.com  Sun Aug 22 18:39:27 2010
From: waltw at teleport.com (Walt Wentz)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 18:39:27 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Keith Olbermann Special Comment: There Is No
	'Ground	Zero Mosque' - 08/16/10
In-Reply-To: <40E5BDC4A5984483B4FD526336CC0F39@EdDaviePC>
References: <E01C62A782254E7C9C8879E64434C3C4@EdDaviePC>
	<SNT119-W29DBDAA9A4D6EB485168B4C49D0@phx.gbl>
	<EC6F4C6E-FC3A-4F3E-AF8C-CAA5C7E96A83@mac.com>
	<40E5BDC4A5984483B4FD526336CC0F39@EdDaviePC>
Message-ID: <93D84001-3264-45F9-B3F6-9915C03A46D1@teleport.com>

A very pointed and effective argument!  Too bad those it is directed  
to are immune to logic, history or common sense.
WW

On Aug 22, 2010, at 2:30 PM, Ed Davie wrote:

> All I can say is "WOW".
> Ed
>
>
>
>
> From: Kurt Wilke
> Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 10:22 PM
> To: Forest Grove local interests list
> Subject: [Grovenet] Keith Olbermann Special Comment: There Is No  
> 'Ground Zero Mosque' - 08/16/10
>
>
> Worth listening to.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuFUCW4qrL0
>
>
> Kurt
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From ocollaugh at comcast.net  Sun Aug 22 20:46:30 2010
From: ocollaugh at comcast.net (donkelly)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 03:46:30 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Grovenet] Keith Olbermann Special Comment: There Is
	No	'Ground	Zero Mosque' - 08/16/10
In-Reply-To: <93D84001-3264-45F9-B3F6-9915C03A46D1@teleport.com>
Message-ID: <1806290597.205965.1282535190892.JavaMail.root@sz0024a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

Olbermann does make a point now and then. Not sure I always get it though.

don
----- Original Message -----
From: Walt Wentz <waltw at teleport.com>
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 01:39:27 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Keith Olbermann Special Comment: There Is No	'Ground	Zero Mosque' - 08/16/10

A very pointed and effective argument!  Too bad those it is directed  
to are immune to logic, history or common sense.
WW

On Aug 22, 2010, at 2:30 PM, Ed Davie wrote:

> All I can say is "WOW".
> Ed
>
>
>
>
> From: Kurt Wilke
> Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 10:22 PM
> To: Forest Grove local interests list
> Subject: [Grovenet] Keith Olbermann Special Comment: There Is No  
> 'Ground Zero Mosque' - 08/16/10
>
>
> Worth listening to.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuFUCW4qrL0
>
>
> Kurt
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From edavie at verizon.net  Mon Aug 23 13:07:13 2010
From: edavie at verizon.net (Ed Davie)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 13:07:13 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] (no subject)
Message-ID: <DDCCC2F1D9924684B169E3D9DADE4237@EdDaviePC>

Some might find this interesting.

Responding to Threats of Climate Change Mega-Catastrophes* 

Carolyn Kousky, Olga Rostapshova, Michael Toman, Richard Zeckhauser 

October 19, 2009 

Abstract 

There is a low but uncertain probability that climate change could trigger "mega-catastrophes," severe and at least partly irreversible adverse effects across broad regions. This paper first discusses the state of current knowledge and the defining characteristics of potential climate change mega-catastrophes. While some of these characteristics present difficulties for using standard rational choice methods to evaluate response options, there is still a need to balance benefits and costs of different possible responses with appropriate attention to the uncertainties. To that end, we present a qualitative analysis of three options for mitigating the risk of climate mega-catastrophes-drastic abatement of greenhouse gas emissions, development and implementation of geo-engineering, and large-scale ex-ante adaptation-against the criteria of efficacy, cost, robustness, and flexibility. We discuss the composition of a sound portfolio of initial investments in reducing the risk of climate change mega-catastrophes. 

Key words: climate change; catastrophe; risk; decision making under uncertainty 

http://www.hks.harvard.edu/fs/rzeckhau/CCCats.pdf

Ed Davie, 

From ocollaugh at comcast.net  Mon Aug 23 14:50:31 2010
From: ocollaugh at comcast.net (donkelly)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 14:50:31 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Subject: [Grovenet] (no subject)
References: <DDCCC2F1D9924684B169E3D9DADE4237@EdDaviePC>
Message-ID: <4C72ED27.000020.02144@DON-B2514E06367>

Land change too.

http://www.the912project
us/forum/topic/show?id=2881797%3ATopic%3A1319012&xgs=1&xg_source=msg_share_to
ic
 
Don 
 

-------Original Message-------
 
From: Ed Davie
Date: 8/23/2010 1:07:45 PM
To: Grovenet
Subject: [Grovenet] (no subject)
 
Some might find this interesting.
 
Responding to Threats of Climate Change Mega-Catastrophes*
 
Carolyn Kousky, Olga Rostapshova, Michael Toman, Richard Zeckhauser
 
October 19, 2009
 
Abstract
 
There is a low but uncertain probability that climate change could trigger 
mega-catastrophes," severe and at least partly irreversible adverse effects
across broad regions. This paper first discusses the state of current
knowledge and the defining characteristics of potential climate change
mega-catastrophes. While some of these characteristics present difficulties
for using standard rational choice methods to evaluate response options,
there is still a need to balance benefits and costs of different possible
responses with appropriate attention to the uncertainties. To that end, we
present a qualitative analysis of three options for mitigating the risk of
climate mega-catastrophes-drastic abatement of greenhouse gas emissions,
development and implementation of geo-engineering, and large-scale ex-ante
adaptation-against the criteria of efficacy, cost, robustness, and
flexibility. We discuss the composition of a sound portfolio of initial
investments in reducing the risk of c
  limate change mega-catastrophes.
 
Key words: climate change; catastrophe; risk; decision making under
uncertainty
 
http://www.hks.harvard.edu/fs/rzeckhau/CCCats.pdf
 
Ed Davie,
_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
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From obrzl at verizon.net  Tue Aug 24 11:07:49 2010
From: obrzl at verizon.net (obrzl at verizon.net)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 13:07:49 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] more on health care
Message-ID: <27766375.309226.1282673269180.JavaMail.root@vznit170068>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100824/a8bfdadc/attachment.html 

From admin at jeffhowden.com  Tue Aug 24 11:38:02 2010
From: admin at jeffhowden.com (Jeff Howden)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 11:38:02 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Digital Overload: Your Brain On Gadgets
Message-ID: <001d01cb43bb$7d58ad60$780a0820$@com>

Digital Overload: Your Brain On Gadgets

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129384107
<http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129384107&sc=nl&cc=nh-
20100824> &sc=nl&cc=nh-20100824

August 24, 2010

The average person today consumes almost three times more information than
what the typical person consumed in 1960, according to research at the
University of California, San Diego.

And The New York Times reports that the average computer user checks 40
websites a day and can switch programs 36 times an hour.

"It's an onslaught of information coming in today," says New York Times
technology journalist Matt Richtel. "At one time a screen meant maybe
something in your living room. But now it's something in your pocket so it
goes everywhere - it can be behind the wheel, it can be at the dinner table,
it can be in the bathroom. We see it everywhere today."

Richtel has spent the past several months researching the toll technology
and "information juggling" is taking on our lives - and our brains. His
series "Your
<http://topics.nytimes.com/top/features/timestopics/series/your_brain_on_com
puters/index.html>  Brain On Computers" describes how multitasking on
computers and digital gadgets affects the way people process information -
and how quickly they can then become distracted.

The Brain In The Wild

Recently Richtel accompanied several scientists, all of whom are studying
the brain, on a week-long retreat to a remote corner of Utah. The rules of
the vacation? No cell phones, no Internet access and no technological
distractions.

"Partly they wanted to go on vacation and see it through a neurologic lens,"
he says. "They wanted to take a look at what was happening to their brain
and their perspectives - and by extension, ours - as they got off the grid."

The scientists were divided in half about how they felt about information
overload. Two of the five - whom Richtel termed "the believers" -  thought
that the constant stream of data coming into their lives was making it
increasingly difficult to focus and concentrate - and that heading back into
nature could help them recharge. The other three neuroscientists -  "the
skeptics" - thought that the benefits of having constant access to
information far outweighed any consequences.

While out in the wild, the scientists - including the "skeptics" - noticed
something significant happening on the third day they couldn't use their
handheld devices, computers and mobile phones.

"You start to feel more relaxed. Maybe you sleep a little better. Maybe you
don't reach for your phone pinging in your pocket," Richtel says. "Maybe you
wait a little longer before answering a question. Maybe you don't feel in a
rush to do anything - your sense of urgency fades."  Richtel terms it the
"three-day effect."

Though the "three-day effect" didn't surprise the neuroscientists on the
trip, they realized it presented a new research problem.

"They said 'Let us see if there's anything in this three-day effect that
might be the basis for future study that might help us understand when we're
overwhelmed with data and what happens to us when we get away from it?'"
explains Richtel, who accompanied the scientists on the trip. "To some
extent, the skeptics did see a bit of a change in their perspective. They
did say [things like] 'I am not as engaged in my world when I'm constantly
using devices as I am when I am away from them.' They also said that
revelation will inform [their] research going forward and may help us reach
broader conclusions. But they didn't say 'I understand now what is happening
to the brain.' They simply said 'There is something that merits real study
here.'"

Streaming Information And The Brain

Richtel says another question scientists are asking is how much is too much,
when it comes to processing technology.

"What is the line right now when we go from a kind of technology nourishment
to a kind of stepping backwards, to a kind of distraction - where instead of
informing us, [technology] distracts us and impedes our productivity?" he
asks. "There's growing evidence that that line is closer than we've imagined
or acknowledged."

He points to one study conducted at Stanford University, which showed that
heavy multimedia users have trouble filtering out irrelevant information -
and trouble focusing on tasks. Other research, he says, says that heavy
video game playing may release dopamine - which is thought to be involved
with addictive behaviors.

"When you check your information, when you get a buzz in your pocket, when
you get a ring - you get what they call a dopamine squirt. You get a little
rush of adrenaline." he says. "Well, guess what happens in its absence? You
feel bored. You're conditioned by a neurological response: 'Check me check
me check me check me.'"

Richtel says that research is ongoing, particularly into how heavy
technology may fundamentally alter the frontal lobe during childhood, how
addictive behavior can lead to poor decision-making and how the brain is
rewired when it is constantly inundated with new information.

But it's not all doom and gloom, he says. There are enormous benefits
associated with technology, too. Research from the University of Rochester
indicates that certain video gamers have more visual acuity than those who
don't game. And there's value in offloading thinking onto a computer, he
says - by, for example, using Google Maps instead of calling for directions
or organizing information in Excel instead of keeping track of it in your
head.

"There's some stuff being done at UCSF where scientists are trying to figure
out if they can train older drivers to pick up more information in their
surroundings that would let them react more quickly," he says. "Could they
effectively develop games that would have transferability outside the game
environment into the real world environment? A key word in this discussion
is transfer. How do tasks we perform on the Internet transfer to real life?
That stuff is still very much in its embryonic stages."

One way of looking at all of this research, he says, is to think of
technology the way we think about food.

"Just as food nourishes us and we need it for life, so too - in the 21st
century and the modern age - we need technology. You cannot survive without
the communication tools; the productivity tools are essential," he says.
"And yet, food has pros and cons to it. We know that some food is Twinkies
and some food is Brussels sprouts. And we know that if we overeat, it causes
problems. Similarly, after 20 years of glorifying technology as if all
computers were good and all use of it was good, science is beginning to
embrace the idea that some technology is Twinkies and some technology is
Brussels sprouts."

Matt Richtel covers technology and telecommunications for The New York
Times. He also writes a syndicated comic strip called "Rudy Park" and is the
author of Hooked, a thriller set in Silicon Valley. He received the Pulitzer
Prize in 2010 for a series in The New York Times on driving while
multitasking.


From phoenixacup at gmail.com  Tue Aug 24 18:32:07 2010
From: phoenixacup at gmail.com (Jane Burch-Pesses)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 18:32:07 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Digital Overload: Your Brain On Gadgets
In-Reply-To: <001d01cb43bb$7d58ad60$780a0820$@com>
References: <001d01cb43bb$7d58ad60$780a0820$@com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimaN+Ga6ZbUF-eDVfmQ9mXnv-_i70bDG8rYxWv8@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, lots of good research that shows that multi-tasking is lose-lose, but
people still brag about their multi-tasking skills.

Jane B-P

On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 11:38 AM, Jeff Howden <admin at jeffhowden.com> wrote:

> Digital Overload: Your Brain On Gadgets
>
> http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129384107
> <
> http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129384107&sc=nl&cc=nh-
> 20100824> &sc=nl&cc=nh-20100824
>
> August 24, 2010
>
> The average person today consumes almost three times more information than
> what the typical person consumed in 1960, according to research at the
> University of California, San Diego.
>
> And The New York Times reports that the average computer user checks 40
> websites a day and can switch programs 36 times an hour.
>
> "It's an onslaught of information coming in today," says New York Times
> technology journalist Matt Richtel. "At one time a screen meant maybe
> something in your living room. But now it's something in your pocket so it
> goes everywhere - it can be behind the wheel, it can be at the dinner
> table,
> it can be in the bathroom. We see it everywhere today."
>
> Richtel has spent the past several months researching the toll technology
> and "information juggling" is taking on our lives - and our brains. His
> series "Your
> <
> http://topics.nytimes.com/top/features/timestopics/series/your_brain_on_com
> puters/index.html<http://topics.nytimes.com/top/features/timestopics/series/your_brain_on_com%0Aputers/index.html>>
>  Brain On Computers" describes how multitasking on
> computers and digital gadgets affects the way people process information -
> and how quickly they can then become distracted.
>
> The Brain In The Wild
>
> Recently Richtel accompanied several scientists, all of whom are studying
> the brain, on a week-long retreat to a remote corner of Utah. The rules of
> the vacation? No cell phones, no Internet access and no technological
> distractions.
>
> "Partly they wanted to go on vacation and see it through a neurologic
> lens,"
> he says. "They wanted to take a look at what was happening to their brain
> and their perspectives - and by extension, ours - as they got off the
> grid."
>
> The scientists were divided in half about how they felt about information
> overload. Two of the five - whom Richtel termed "the believers" -  thought
> that the constant stream of data coming into their lives was making it
> increasingly difficult to focus and concentrate - and that heading back
> into
> nature could help them recharge. The other three neuroscientists -  "the
> skeptics" - thought that the benefits of having constant access to
> information far outweighed any consequences.
>
> While out in the wild, the scientists - including the "skeptics" - noticed
> something significant happening on the third day they couldn't use their
> handheld devices, computers and mobile phones.
>
> "You start to feel more relaxed. Maybe you sleep a little better. Maybe you
> don't reach for your phone pinging in your pocket," Richtel says. "Maybe
> you
> wait a little longer before answering a question. Maybe you don't feel in a
> rush to do anything - your sense of urgency fades."  Richtel terms it the
> "three-day effect."
>
> Though the "three-day effect" didn't surprise the neuroscientists on the
> trip, they realized it presented a new research problem.
>
> "They said 'Let us see if there's anything in this three-day effect that
> might be the basis for future study that might help us understand when
> we're
> overwhelmed with data and what happens to us when we get away from it?'"
> explains Richtel, who accompanied the scientists on the trip. "To some
> extent, the skeptics did see a bit of a change in their perspective. They
> did say [things like] 'I am not as engaged in my world when I'm constantly
> using devices as I am when I am away from them.' They also said that
> revelation will inform [their] research going forward and may help us reach
> broader conclusions. But they didn't say 'I understand now what is
> happening
> to the brain.' They simply said 'There is something that merits real study
> here.'"
>
> Streaming Information And The Brain
>
> Richtel says another question scientists are asking is how much is too
> much,
> when it comes to processing technology.
>
> "What is the line right now when we go from a kind of technology
> nourishment
> to a kind of stepping backwards, to a kind of distraction - where instead
> of
> informing us, [technology] distracts us and impedes our productivity?" he
> asks. "There's growing evidence that that line is closer than we've
> imagined
> or acknowledged."
>
> He points to one study conducted at Stanford University, which showed that
> heavy multimedia users have trouble filtering out irrelevant information -
> and trouble focusing on tasks. Other research, he says, says that heavy
> video game playing may release dopamine - which is thought to be involved
> with addictive behaviors.
>
> "When you check your information, when you get a buzz in your pocket, when
> you get a ring - you get what they call a dopamine squirt. You get a little
> rush of adrenaline." he says. "Well, guess what happens in its absence? You
> feel bored. You're conditioned by a neurological response: 'Check me check
> me check me check me.'"
>
> Richtel says that research is ongoing, particularly into how heavy
> technology may fundamentally alter the frontal lobe during childhood, how
> addictive behavior can lead to poor decision-making and how the brain is
> rewired when it is constantly inundated with new information.
>
> But it's not all doom and gloom, he says. There are enormous benefits
> associated with technology, too. Research from the University of Rochester
> indicates that certain video gamers have more visual acuity than those who
> don't game. And there's value in offloading thinking onto a computer, he
> says - by, for example, using Google Maps instead of calling for directions
> or organizing information in Excel instead of keeping track of it in your
> head.
>
> "There's some stuff being done at UCSF where scientists are trying to
> figure
> out if they can train older drivers to pick up more information in their
> surroundings that would let them react more quickly," he says. "Could they
> effectively develop games that would have transferability outside the game
> environment into the real world environment? A key word in this discussion
> is transfer. How do tasks we perform on the Internet transfer to real life?
> That stuff is still very much in its embryonic stages."
>
> One way of looking at all of this research, he says, is to think of
> technology the way we think about food.
>
> "Just as food nourishes us and we need it for life, so too - in the 21st
> century and the modern age - we need technology. You cannot survive without
> the communication tools; the productivity tools are essential," he says.
> "And yet, food has pros and cons to it. We know that some food is Twinkies
> and some food is Brussels sprouts. And we know that if we overeat, it
> causes
> problems. Similarly, after 20 years of glorifying technology as if all
> computers were good and all use of it was good, science is beginning to
> embrace the idea that some technology is Twinkies and some technology is
> Brussels sprouts."
>
> Matt Richtel covers technology and telecommunications for The New York
> Times. He also writes a syndicated comic strip called "Rudy Park" and is
> the
> author of Hooked, a thriller set in Silicon Valley. He received the
> Pulitzer
> Prize in 2010 for a series in The New York Times on driving while
> multitasking.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>



-- 
Phoenix Acupuncture and Chinese Medicine
Home of the TAO (Team Against Obesity)
www.phoenix-acupuncture.net

From jo.david at verizon.net  Tue Aug 24 22:22:54 2010
From: jo.david at verizon.net (David Morelli)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 22:22:54 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Keith Olbermann Special Comment: There Is	No	'Ground
	Zero Mosque' - 08/16/10
In-Reply-To: <1806290597.205965.1282535190892.JavaMail.root@sz0024a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
References: <1806290597.205965.1282535190892.JavaMail.root@sz0024a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <6854A6A1-B641-4358-90DE-6FEF302C6356@verizon.net>

John Stewart made an interesting point.

According to FOX, the 51 Parkplace ( Cordoba House ) project is funded in part by Kingdom Holding from Saudi Arabia. 
 
And that group is tied by FOX News as pushing Shia and Madrassa building throughout the world.

The head of Kingdom Holding is Saudi prince Alwaleed Bin Talal, FOX calls him a serious threat.

Oh...

Prince Alwaleed is the second largest investor in FOX news ( News Corp ).

Hmmm?  Does that make those who work for FOX news his "minions"?

David

On Aug 22, 2010, at 8:46 PM, donkelly wrote:

> Olbermann does make a point now and then. Not sure I always get it though.
> 
> don



From embien at starband.net  Tue Aug 24 22:52:15 2010
From: embien at starband.net (Mike Northam)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 22:52:15 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Italian Restaurant?
References: <7FCAD308ACFC49969125E66250BCCF11@EdDaviePC><4C67F57E.5090808@gmail.com><C12FF7B8-52DA-4C49-8047-593ED95F6D0B@teleport.com><000601cb3c99$ffa2bff0$fee83fd0$@net>
	<BAY148-ds1705A6B7AA48981332C86EA89A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <46BE06E54E6746C6BD6B0FD7483CE464@saralie3>

Has anyone tried the italian restaurant where Deli in the Grove used to be? 
Any opinions?

Saralie 



From jo.david at verizon.net  Tue Aug 24 22:55:10 2010
From: jo.david at verizon.net (David Morelli)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 22:55:10 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] more on health care
In-Reply-To: <27766375.309226.1282673269180.JavaMail.root@vznit170068>
References: <27766375.309226.1282673269180.JavaMail.root@vznit170068>
Message-ID: <D98A4253-7F30-4780-B94D-E4B009FE5628@verizon.net>

Yes it is.

It raises the question, "do you want life, or do you want to fight death?"

Defining "life" is a very personal decision.

David

On Aug 24, 2010, at 11:07 AM, obrzl at verizon.net wrote:

> Here is a long and challenging article, but it is also very timely and engaging.  I encourage anyone who has an opinion about health care to read it, especially to the end.
>  
>  http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/02/100802fa_fact_gawande
>  
> Mark
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From jo.david at verizon.net  Tue Aug 24 22:57:09 2010
From: jo.david at verizon.net (David Morelli)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 22:57:09 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Italian Restaurant?
In-Reply-To: <46BE06E54E6746C6BD6B0FD7483CE464@saralie3>
References: <7FCAD308ACFC49969125E66250BCCF11@EdDaviePC><4C67F57E.5090808@gmail.com><C12FF7B8-52DA-4C49-8047-593ED95F6D0B@teleport.com><000601cb3c99$ffa2bff0$fee83fd0$@net>
	<BAY148-ds1705A6B7AA48981332C86EA89A0@phx.gbl>
	<46BE06E54E6746C6BD6B0FD7483CE464@saralie3>
Message-ID: <C9737C28-AD59-4B58-82C1-679D7223D226@verizon.net>

Yes.

Well prepared food.  Knew someone at almost every table.  Worth the visit.

David

On Aug 24, 2010, at 10:52 PM, Mike Northam wrote:

> Has anyone tried the italian restaurant where Deli in the Grove used to be? 
> Any opinions?
> 
> Saralie 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet




From waltw at teleport.com  Tue Aug 24 22:59:54 2010
From: waltw at teleport.com (Walt Wentz)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 22:59:54 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Italian Restaurant?
In-Reply-To: <46BE06E54E6746C6BD6B0FD7483CE464@saralie3>
References: <7FCAD308ACFC49969125E66250BCCF11@EdDaviePC><4C67F57E.5090808@gmail.com><C12FF7B8-52DA-4C49-8047-593ED95F6D0B@teleport.com><000601cb3c99$ffa2bff0$fee83fd0$@net>
	<BAY148-ds1705A6B7AA48981332C86EA89A0@phx.gbl>
	<46BE06E54E6746C6BD6B0FD7483CE464@saralie3>
Message-ID: <A533D9B1-3C74-476C-9F9C-210218EAB061@teleport.com>

I've tried it on two occasions. The menu is a bit limited for now,  
but the food is delicious (I like the gnocci with duck comfit in  
blueberry sauce myself), and the prices surprisingly reasonable for  
such professional quality.
WW
On Aug 24, 2010, at 10:52 PM, Mike Northam wrote:

> Has anyone tried the italian restaurant where Deli in the Grove  
> used to be?
> Any opinions?
>
> Saralie
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From NoSpam03 at comcast.net  Wed Aug 25 07:35:28 2010
From: NoSpam03 at comcast.net (Steven)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 07:35:28 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Keith Olbermann Special Comment: There
	Is	No	'Ground	Zero Mosque' - 08/16/10
In-Reply-To: <6854A6A1-B641-4358-90DE-6FEF302C6356@verizon.net>
References: <1806290597.205965.1282535190892.JavaMail.root@sz0024a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<6854A6A1-B641-4358-90DE-6FEF302C6356@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <000001cb4462$c3ccbe10$4b663a30$@net>

If they can blast one of their major investors, I have to say they have a
free reign on coverage.
Not like NBC that can't say anything bad about GE.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
> Behalf Of David Morelli
> Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 10:23 PM
> To: Forest Grove local interests list
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Keith Olbermann Special Comment: There Is No
> 'Ground Zero Mosque' - 08/16/10
> 
> John Stewart made an interesting point.
> 
> According to FOX, the 51 Parkplace ( Cordoba House ) project is funded
> in part by Kingdom Holding from Saudi Arabia.
> 
> And that group is tied by FOX News as pushing Shia and Madrassa
> building throughout the world.
> 
> The head of Kingdom Holding is Saudi prince Alwaleed Bin Talal, FOX
> calls him a serious threat.
> 
> Oh...
> 
> Prince Alwaleed is the second largest investor in FOX news ( News Corp
> ).
> 
> Hmmm?  Does that make those who work for FOX news his "minions"?
> 
> David
> 
> On Aug 22, 2010, at 8:46 PM, donkelly wrote:
> 
> > Olbermann does make a point now and then. Not sure I always get it
> though.
> >
> > don
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From khourym at verizon.net  Wed Aug 25 08:05:32 2010
From: khourym at verizon.net (Martha Khoury)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 08:05:32 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Italian Restaurant?
In-Reply-To: <46BE06E54E6746C6BD6B0FD7483CE464@saralie3>
References: <7FCAD308ACFC49969125E66250BCCF11@EdDaviePC><4C67F57E.5090808@gmail.com><C12FF7B8-52DA-4C49-8047-593ED95F6D0B@teleport.com><000601cb3c99$ffa2bff0$fee83fd0$@net>
	<BAY148-ds1705A6B7AA48981332C86EA89A0@phx.gbl>
	<46BE06E54E6746C6BD6B0FD7483CE464@saralie3>
Message-ID: <11F7AFC1-7BE4-4FC8-B552-CC1B146FA743@verizon.net>

Funny you should ask. We went there last night. I hate to be the  
naysayer, but I was disappointed at every turn.
Sorry this is so long, but these are my observations based on our  
dinner.

The soup was very salty. When I mentioned it, the cook said "That's  
the way it's supposed to be."
Now I generally like salty soup, but this was over the top.

The bread baskets were not lined with a napkin. No butter or olive  
oil. Bread was cold and bland. Maybe that's the way it's supposed to  
be. But I never had that problem in Italy.

The trio of bruscetta ... When we were waffling about ordering it  
(based on the quantity of food ordered, unsuspecting of the quality)  
the waitress said "You won't regret it." I'm thinking, we'll just take  
leftovers home.
One was cold ground sausage (plain) on dry bread sprinkled with a bit  
of dry chopped spinach. I'm sorry, but there's not much worse than  
cold ground meat, especially when it rolls off your bread. We did  
regret it.

I ordered the eggplant parmegiana with "hearty tomato sauce." The  
waitress did warn me there was no eggplant. She neglected to mention  
that there was no tomato sauce.

If you closed your eyes and tried to guess the flavor of the gelato we  
had for dessert, you wouldn't be able to tell it was chocolate.

Soggy crust on the tart. Small bit of fruit on it was sliced very  
thinly and had been there for a while.

My husband did like his "poulet". My daughter wouldn't touch her pasta  
with meat sauce. I tried it and I don't blame her. It was like pasta  
swimming in beef broth. She ate his poulet.

The service was disorganized. Our waitress did a fine job. But people  
would walk in and it might take 5 minutes for anyone to look at them.   
A server wandered by our table wondering if we ordered an espresso. We  
did not.

No high chairs. There were two families there with babies who could  
have used them.

Tables were tippy and need sanding (or covering). Maybe it's just so  
you don't put your elbows on the table -- a lesson my daughter learned  
with what amounted to rug burn on her elbow.

**I suspect they are having a difficult time balancing the desired  
quality with the desired price. We did spend quite a bit of money -  
everything is ala-carte and we wanted to try things - but didn't make  
it into triple digits.

We'll try it again. I have a better idea of what to order and,  
frankly, there are few alternatives.

Maybe someone will see this who can do something about it and some  
improvements will be made. That is truly my hope.

-Martha K.



On Aug 24, 2010, at 10:52 PM, Mike Northam wrote:

> Has anyone tried the italian restaurant where Deli in the Grove used  
> to be?
> Any opinions?
>
> Saralie
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From khourym at verizon.net  Wed Aug 25 08:14:00 2010
From: khourym at verizon.net (Martha Khoury)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 08:14:00 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Italian Restaurant?
In-Reply-To: <46BE06E54E6746C6BD6B0FD7483CE464@saralie3>
References: <7FCAD308ACFC49969125E66250BCCF11@EdDaviePC><4C67F57E.5090808@gmail.com><C12FF7B8-52DA-4C49-8047-593ED95F6D0B@teleport.com><000601cb3c99$ffa2bff0$fee83fd0$@net>
	<BAY148-ds1705A6B7AA48981332C86EA89A0@phx.gbl>
	<46BE06E54E6746C6BD6B0FD7483CE464@saralie3>
Message-ID: <69059201-66D8-4D09-8E82-894EC5E7A36A@verizon.net>

I neglected to mention that the beet salad was very nice.

The space is roomy -- bigger than I remembered.

And they have a bar, so presumably one could get a cocktail or mixed  
drink, although I didn't see them on the menu.

Another plus is that they had some local wines on the menu.

"Facilities" were clean with foamy soap which is a favorite in our  
family.

-MK


On Aug 24, 2010, at 10:52 PM, Mike Northam wrote:

> Has anyone tried the italian restaurant where Deli in the Grove used  
> to be?
> Any opinions?
>
> Saralie
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From waltw at teleport.com  Wed Aug 25 08:16:16 2010
From: waltw at teleport.com (Walt Wentz)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 08:16:16 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Keith Olbermann Special Comment: There
	Is	No	'Ground	Zero Mosque' - 08/16/10
In-Reply-To: <000001cb4462$c3ccbe10$4b663a30$@net>
References: <1806290597.205965.1282535190892.JavaMail.root@sz0024a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<6854A6A1-B641-4358-90DE-6FEF302C6356@verizon.net>
	<000001cb4462$c3ccbe10$4b663a30$@net>
Message-ID: <217E8B36-78A5-4817-B8CE-A93FD2943721@teleport.com>

Also depends on whether they put their mouth where their money is...  
Like they just donated a million bucks to the Republican Governors. A  
million bucks is chicken feed in today's politics, of course, yet it  
makes FOX's  bias a bit more predictable...
WW
On Aug 25, 2010, at 7:35 AM, Steven wrote:

> If they can blast one of their major investors, I have to say they  
> have a
> free reign on coverage.
> Not like NBC that can't say anything bad about GE.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet- 
>> bounces at rdrop.com] On
>> Behalf Of David Morelli
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 10:23 PM
>> To: Forest Grove local interests list
>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Keith Olbermann Special Comment: There Is No
>> 'Ground Zero Mosque' - 08/16/10
>>
>> John Stewart made an interesting point.
>>
>> According to FOX, the 51 Parkplace ( Cordoba House ) project is  
>> funded
>> in part by Kingdom Holding from Saudi Arabia.
>>
>> And that group is tied by FOX News as pushing Shia and Madrassa
>> building throughout the world.
>>
>> The head of Kingdom Holding is Saudi prince Alwaleed Bin Talal, FOX
>> calls him a serious threat.
>>
>> Oh...
>>
>> Prince Alwaleed is the second largest investor in FOX news ( News  
>> Corp
>> ).
>>
>> Hmmm?  Does that make those who work for FOX news his "minions"?
>>
>> David
>>
>> On Aug 22, 2010, at 8:46 PM, donkelly wrote:
>>
>>> Olbermann does make a point now and then. Not sure I always get it
>> though.
>>>
>>> don
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From NoSpam03 at comcast.net  Wed Aug 25 08:30:11 2010
From: NoSpam03 at comcast.net (Steven)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 08:30:11 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Keith Olbermann Special Comment:
	There	Is	No	'Ground	Zero Mosque' - 08/16/10
In-Reply-To: <217E8B36-78A5-4817-B8CE-A93FD2943721@teleport.com>
References: <1806290597.205965.1282535190892.JavaMail.root@sz0024a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<6854A6A1-B641-4358-90DE-6FEF302C6356@verizon.net>	<000001cb4462$c3ccbe10$4b663a30$@net>
	<217E8B36-78A5-4817-B8CE-A93FD2943721@teleport.com>
Message-ID: <001401cb446a$69696c90$3c3c45b0$@net>

And they donated to Hillary and the Dems in 2008.  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
> Behalf Of Walt Wentz
> Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 8:16 AM
> To: Forest Grove local interests list
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Keith Olbermann Special Comment: There Is No
> 'Ground Zero Mosque' - 08/16/10
> 
> Also depends on whether they put their mouth where their money is...
> Like they just donated a million bucks to the Republican Governors. A
> million bucks is chicken feed in today's politics, of course, yet it
> makes FOX's  bias a bit more predictable...
> WW
> On Aug 25, 2010, at 7:35 AM, Steven wrote:
> 
> > If they can blast one of their major investors, I have to say they
> > have a
> > free reign on coverage.
> > Not like NBC that can't say anything bad about GE.
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-
> >> bounces at rdrop.com] On
> >> Behalf Of David Morelli
> >> Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 10:23 PM
> >> To: Forest Grove local interests list
> >> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Keith Olbermann Special Comment: There Is No
> >> 'Ground Zero Mosque' - 08/16/10
> >>
> >> John Stewart made an interesting point.
> >>
> >> According to FOX, the 51 Parkplace ( Cordoba House ) project is
> >> funded
> >> in part by Kingdom Holding from Saudi Arabia.
> >>
> >> And that group is tied by FOX News as pushing Shia and Madrassa
> >> building throughout the world.
> >>
> >> The head of Kingdom Holding is Saudi prince Alwaleed Bin Talal, FOX
> >> calls him a serious threat.
> >>
> >> Oh...
> >>
> >> Prince Alwaleed is the second largest investor in FOX news ( News
> >> Corp
> >> ).
> >>
> >> Hmmm?  Does that make those who work for FOX news his "minions"?
> >>
> >> David
> >>
> >> On Aug 22, 2010, at 8:46 PM, donkelly wrote:
> >>
> >>> Olbermann does make a point now and then. Not sure I always get it
> >> though.
> >>>
> >>> don
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> GroveNet mailing list
> >> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> >> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GroveNet mailing list
> > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From waltw at teleport.com  Wed Aug 25 08:59:59 2010
From: waltw at teleport.com (Walt Wentz)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 08:59:59 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Keith Olbermann Special Comment:
	There	Is	No	'Ground	Zero Mosque' - 08/16/10
In-Reply-To: <001401cb446a$69696c90$3c3c45b0$@net>
References: <1806290597.205965.1282535190892.JavaMail.root@sz0024a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<6854A6A1-B641-4358-90DE-6FEF302C6356@verizon.net>	<000001cb4462$c3ccbe10$4b663a30$@net>
	<217E8B36-78A5-4817-B8CE-A93FD2943721@teleport.com>
	<001401cb446a$69696c90$3c3c45b0$@net>
Message-ID: <625BBE51-FDE9-4F08-B8DD-FB78751CAA8D@teleport.com>

Interesting, if they spread their donations around equally. Even more  
interesting if they spread their "investigations" around equally.

Incidentally, I would like to thank everyone on this forum who  
provided information on local mortuaries and VA-assisted funeral  
services. My friend's brother died last Tuesday evening, after a long  
illness, in the friendly and well-run VA hospital at Wood Village. We  
were with him in his last hours. The hospital made arrangements with  
the mortuary for cremation. On Saturday morning we held a small  
memorial service in a Salem park near his childhood home. An Army  
color guard and bugler presented the flag ceremony. My friend  
departed for her California home that afternoon, content and comforted.
Walt

On Aug 25, 2010, at 8:30 AM, Steven wrote:

> And they donated to Hillary and the Dems in 2008.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet- 
>> bounces at rdrop.com] On
>> Behalf Of Walt Wentz
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 8:16 AM
>> To: Forest Grove local interests list
>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Keith Olbermann Special Comment: There Is No
>> 'Ground Zero Mosque' - 08/16/10
>>
>> Also depends on whether they put their mouth where their money is...
>> Like they just donated a million bucks to the Republican Governors. A
>> million bucks is chicken feed in today's politics, of course, yet it
>> makes FOX's  bias a bit more predictable...
>> WW
>> On Aug 25, 2010, at 7:35 AM, Steven wrote:
>>
>>> If they can blast one of their major investors, I have to say they
>>> have a
>>> free reign on coverage.
>>> Not like NBC that can't say anything bad about GE.
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-
>>>> bounces at rdrop.com] On
>>>> Behalf Of David Morelli
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 10:23 PM
>>>> To: Forest Grove local interests list
>>>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Keith Olbermann Special Comment: There  
>>>> Is No
>>>> 'Ground Zero Mosque' - 08/16/10
>>>>
>>>> John Stewart made an interesting point.
>>>>
>>>> According to FOX, the 51 Parkplace ( Cordoba House ) project is
>>>> funded
>>>> in part by Kingdom Holding from Saudi Arabia.
>>>>
>>>> And that group is tied by FOX News as pushing Shia and Madrassa
>>>> building throughout the world.
>>>>
>>>> The head of Kingdom Holding is Saudi prince Alwaleed Bin Talal, FOX
>>>> calls him a serious threat.
>>>>
>>>> Oh...
>>>>
>>>> Prince Alwaleed is the second largest investor in FOX news ( News
>>>> Corp
>>>> ).
>>>>
>>>> Hmmm?  Does that make those who work for FOX news his "minions"?
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 22, 2010, at 8:46 PM, donkelly wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Olbermann does make a point now and then. Not sure I always get it
>>>> though.
>>>>>
>>>>> don
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GroveNet mailing list
>>>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>>>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GroveNet mailing list
>>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From embien at starband.net  Wed Aug 25 09:56:15 2010
From: embien at starband.net (Mike Northam)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 09:56:15 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Italian Restaurant?
References: <7FCAD308ACFC49969125E66250BCCF11@EdDaviePC><4C67F57E.5090808@gmail.com><C12FF7B8-52DA-4C49-8047-593ED95F6D0B@teleport.com><000601cb3c99$ffa2bff0$fee83fd0$@net><BAY148-ds1705A6B7AA48981332C86EA89A0@phx.gbl><46BE06E54E6746C6BD6B0FD7483CE464@saralie3>
	<69059201-66D8-4D09-8E82-894EC5E7A36A@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <B6AEFE465C38437E9299B5D5904B897A@saralie3>

Thanks for the info.  We'll wait a abit and let it shake out, maybe it will 
get better.

Saralie
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Martha Khoury" <khourym at verizon.net>
To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 8:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Italian Restaurant?


>I neglected to mention that the beet salad was very nice.
>
> The space is roomy -- bigger than I remembered.
>
> And they have a bar, so presumably one could get a cocktail or mixed
> drink, although I didn't see them on the menu.
>
> Another plus is that they had some local wines on the menu.
>
> "Facilities" were clean with foamy soap which is a favorite in our
> family.
>
> -MK
>
>
> On Aug 24, 2010, at 10:52 PM, Mike Northam wrote:
>
>> Has anyone tried the italian restaurant where Deli in the Grove used
>> to be?
>> Any opinions?
>>
>> Saralie
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet 



From ejbaeza at mac.com  Wed Aug 25 11:36:05 2010
From: ejbaeza at mac.com (Edward Baeza)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 11:36:05 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Italian Restaurant?
In-Reply-To: <46BE06E54E6746C6BD6B0FD7483CE464@saralie3>
References: <7FCAD308ACFC49969125E66250BCCF11@EdDaviePC>
	<4C67F57E.5090808@gmail.com>
	<C12FF7B8-52DA-4C49-8047-593ED95F6D0B@teleport.com>
	<000601cb3c99$ffa2bff0$fee83fd0$@net>
	<BAY148-ds1705A6B7AA48981332C86EA89A0@phx.gbl>
	<46BE06E54E6746C6BD6B0FD7483CE464@saralie3>
Message-ID: <2277022B-3DD8-4FF1-ADE6-0E20DA393331@mac.com>

I've tried it.  It's called Stecchino's Bistro.  It's very good and  
priced very affordable for such good quality.  Two entres, and two  
glasses of wine for about $40.00 bucks.  The wine list is not over  
priced at all.

All the best,

E. J. Baeza

On Aug 24, 2010, at 10:52 PM, Mike Northam wrote:

> Has anyone tried the italian restaurant where Deli in the Grove  
> used to be?
> Any opinions?
>
> Saralie
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From jo.david at verizon.net  Wed Aug 25 13:39:30 2010
From: jo.david at verizon.net (David Morelli)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 13:39:30 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Keith Olbermann Special Comment: There	Is	No	'Ground
	Zero Mosque' - 08/16/10
In-Reply-To: <000001cb4462$c3ccbe10$4b663a30$@net>
References: <1806290597.205965.1282535190892.JavaMail.root@sz0024a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<6854A6A1-B641-4358-90DE-6FEF302C6356@verizon.net>
	<000001cb4462$c3ccbe10$4b663a30$@net>
Message-ID: <AD8293F7-CE87-4344-B7D8-213BFD081822@verizon.net>

On many programs you hear the words, "in the interest of full disclosure..."  and then they present their company's connections to the story.

In this case, FOX spent their time bashing the iman who is trying to build 51 Parkplace, and told everyone that the money was coming from the Saudi company with ties to other mosques and madrassas.  

They didn't say that the Saudi company was a venture capitalist organization that invested in American businesses, and their money was good enough for a 7% stake in FOX news.  And the Saudi who runs the company was good enough to be in business with Rupert Murdock.  

In short, their fear mongering was without any balance.  The center two blocks away from the nearest Ground Zero is not the affront that FOX News claims.  It is an American congregation's home, financed by a big-oil capitalist.  What could be more American than that?

David

On Aug 25, 2010, at 7:35 AM, Steven wrote:

> If they can blast one of their major investors, I have to say they have a
> free reign on coverage.
> Not like NBC that can't say anything bad about GE.



From redhead854 at msn.com  Wed Aug 25 19:18:33 2010
From: redhead854 at msn.com (Holly Di)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 19:18:33 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] 2011 VIKING CLASS TO GRADUATE FROM LIBERTY? Help or
	opinions?
Message-ID: <BAY127-W146FAD127F236FCF0AD46587850@phx.gbl>


FGHS 2011Graduation is going to be at Liberty HS if no one opposes
this.  FGSD facebook page just announced this "wonderful" thing

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=lf#!/pages/Forest-Grove-OR/Forest-Grove-School-District/175109987035
                      "With
a graduating class of over 400 students, FGHS has outgrown its
traditional graduation location at Pacific U. Graduation 2011 has been
moved to Liberty High School in Hillsboro. New date: Saturday, 
June 4
at 10 a.m. Liberty has room for 3,300 people and plenty of free
parking, plus additional seating 
for a simulcast broadcast""We would love to hold graduation at our own high school, but there just
isn't room for all of the graduates and their families. Unfortunately
 there isn't enough room at Pacific or any other venue in Forest Grove.
You can't count on the weat...her
being good enough to schedule graduation 
outdoors. Many high schools in
the Portland area face the same problem and hold their graduation at
venues like the Chiles Center and Memorial 
Coliseum, but it's MUCH more
expensive. Liberty charges $300, which is considerably less than we
paid at Pacific. "


from me :
Liberty High boasts a gymnasium that holds 3500 spectators, that is 8.75 per each of the 400 graduates.  Liberty also has rooms
with
simulcast so the overflow can watch via large screen tv....  FGSD
thinks this is a wonderful solution with free parking and it only
costs 300.0 to "rent" another high schools gymnasium.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_High_School_%28Hillsboro,_Oregon%29#cite_note-open-1

Pacific University's Stoller Center holds 2500 spectators, that is 6.5 per each of the 400 graduates.
http://www.goboxers.com/facilities/pacific-athletic-center.cfm

At
the 2010 Graduation it was miserable over crowded, the graduation even
had to start late while people tried to get more stuffed into
the gym.  There were way more people there than tickets given out.

The
tickets were easily copied and either fake tickets were presented at
the door or more tickets were printed and handed out by 
the school than 5 per student, OR people were let in without a ticket.   When we went thru the door they looked at our tickets
before they let us in so at least the person that was helping us was trying.  

I think the solution is to make counterfeit free tickets.  2010's tickets were easily copyable,  they were 
just printed in black and white ink on regular paper.there were more people there than 5 guests per student. 
 I have a feeling that even if it was shamefully moved to liberty that there would still be overflow of 
people who show up on time  with legitimate  tickets, that will have to watch the ceremony from a room with 
a tv on the wall...  

I thought I was done going to the school board meetings, but they just keep dragging me back.

Please pass this info to other parents in the district, Maybe we can change this situation before 
they say,, Oh, too late.  sorry.

Next year Vikings graduate from Liberty HS?




 		 	   		  

From steelem at pacificu.edu  Wed Aug 25 19:32:25 2010
From: steelem at pacificu.edu (Steele, Mike)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 19:32:25 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] 2011 VIKING CLASS TO GRADUATE FROM LIBERTY? Help
	or	opinions?
Message-ID: <8D94A946E17E9941AE94FC3AE11CAB7E03E052A998@everest.ad.pacificu.edu>

Pacifc graduates about the same number of folks.  We used the nice facility at Lincoln Park...along with robing and lining up in the PU field house.  It went fairly well...a little rain at the very end.  Plenty of seating for family members...no limits on tickets.  This was on 5/22...a June ceremony could be nicer.

Mike



-----Original Message-----
From: Holly Di <redhead854 at msn.com>
Sent: August 25, 2010 7:18 PM
To: grovenet at rdrop.com <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Subject: [Grovenet] 2011 VIKING CLASS TO GRADUATE FROM LIBERTY? Help or opinions?


FGHS 2011Graduation is going to be at Liberty HS if no one opposes
this.  FGSD facebook page just announced this "wonderful" thing

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=lf#!/pages/Forest-Grove-OR/Forest-Grove-School-District/175109987035
                      "With
a graduating class of over 400 students, FGHS has outgrown its
traditional graduation location at Pacific U. Graduation 2011 has been
moved to Liberty High School in Hillsboro. New date: Saturday,
June 4
at 10 a.m. Liberty has room for 3,300 people and plenty of free
parking, plus additional seating
for a simulcast broadcast""We would love to hold graduation at our own high school, but there just
isn't room for all of the graduates and their families. Unfortunately
 there isn't enough room at Pacific or any other venue in Forest Grove.
You can't count on the weat...her
being good enough to schedule graduation
outdoors. Many high schools in
the Portland area face the same problem and hold their graduation at
venues like the Chiles Center and Memorial
Coliseum, but it's MUCH more
expensive. Liberty charges $300, which is considerably less than we
paid at Pacific. "


from me :
Liberty High boasts a gymnasium that holds 3500 spectators, that is 8.75 per each of the 400 graduates.  Liberty also has rooms
with
simulcast so the overflow can watch via large screen tv....  FGSD
thinks this is a wonderful solution with free parking and it only
costs 300.0 to "rent" another high schools gymnasium.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_High_School_%28Hillsboro,_Oregon%29#cite_note-open-1

Pacific University's Stoller Center holds 2500 spectators, that is 6.5 per each of the 400 graduates.
http://www.goboxers.com/facilities/pacific-athletic-center.cfm

At
the 2010 Graduation it was miserable over crowded, the graduation even
had to start late while people tried to get more stuffed into
the gym.  There were way more people there than tickets given out.

The
tickets were easily copied and either fake tickets were presented at
the door or more tickets were printed and handed out by
the school than 5 per student, OR people were let in without a ticket.   When we went thru the door they looked at our tickets
before they let us in so at least the person that was helping us was trying.

I think the solution is to make counterfeit free tickets.  2010's tickets were easily copyable,  they were
just printed in black and white ink on regular paper.there were more people there than 5 guests per student.
 I have a feeling that even if it was shamefully moved to liberty that there would still be overflow of
people who show up on time  with legitimate  tickets, that will have to watch the ceremony from a room with
a tv on the wall...

I thought I was done going to the school board meetings, but they just keep dragging me back.

Please pass this info to other parents in the district, Maybe we can change this situation before
they say,, Oh, too late.  sorry.

Next year Vikings graduate from Liberty HS?





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GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From jo.david at verizon.net  Fri Aug 27 12:46:27 2010
From: jo.david at verizon.net (David Morelli)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 12:46:27 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] How do you identify the "real" American bald eagle?
References: <EA8FD94AA649D349A82A409E2A54217A054DB26E@fkimlki01.enterprise.afmc.ds.af.mil>
Message-ID: <0A429CAE-B0A0-49EC-BE92-5F2FC33F62BE@verizon.net>

Bald Eagle

How do you identify a bald eagle?

All his feathers are combed over to one side.





From ocollaugh at comcast.net  Fri Aug 27 12:57:53 2010
From: ocollaugh at comcast.net (donkelly)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 19:57:53 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Grovenet] How do you identify the "real" American bald eagle?
In-Reply-To: <0A429CAE-B0A0-49EC-BE92-5F2FC33F62BE@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <186946225.459409.1282939073741.JavaMail.root@sz0024a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

Good one David.
don
PS: I identify the bald eagle as the one who stole my salmon at Bsadshak. (Kodiak Island)


----- Original Message -----
From: David Morelli <jo.david at verizon.net>
To: grovenet <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 19:46:27 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Grovenet] How do you identify the "real" American bald eagle?

Bald Eagle

How do you identify a bald eagle?

All his feathers are combed over to one side.




_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From redhead854 at msn.com  Fri Aug 27 20:16:46 2010
From: redhead854 at msn.com (Holly Di)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 20:16:46 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Are we losing out mcdonald's
Message-ID: <A7614C08-88B4-46E2-BEC2-8500A971CDAF@msn.com>

I haven't heard anything and it's been down for a while?

I miss it.

Thanks
Holly




From ocollaugh at comcast.net  Fri Aug 27 20:34:29 2010
From: ocollaugh at comcast.net (donkelly)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 20:34:29 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
Subject: [Grovenet] Are we losing out mcdonald's
References: <A7614C08-88B4-46E2-BEC2-8500A971CDAF@msn.com>
Message-ID: <4C7883BC.000032.03716@DON-B2514E06367>

I thought it was doing pretty good, and with Walmart here, slated to do even
better.

Don
 
 
 
-------Original Message-------
 
From: Holly Di
Date: 8/27/2010 8:30:11 PM
To: GroveNet at rdrop.com
Subject: [Grovenet] Are we losing out mcdonald's
 
I haven't heard anything and it's been down for a while?
 
I miss it.
 
Thanks
Holly
 
 
 
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GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
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From edavie at verizon.net  Fri Aug 27 20:36:35 2010
From: edavie at verizon.net (Ed Davie)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 20:36:35 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Are we losing out mcdonald's
References: <A7614C08-88B4-46E2-BEC2-8500A971CDAF@msn.com>
Message-ID: <477B9D8754EE4CB18B713B37B1845DE7@EdsPortable>

Their abuilding!


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Holly Di" <redhead854 at msn.com>
To: <GroveNet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 8:16 PM
Subject: [Grovenet] Are we losing out mcdonald's


>I haven't heard anything and it's been down for a while?
> 
> I miss it.
> 
> Thanks
> Holly
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>


From steelem at pacificu.edu  Fri Aug 27 21:02:26 2010
From: steelem at pacificu.edu (Steele, Mike)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 21:02:26 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Are we losing out mcdonald's
Message-ID: <8D94A946E17E9941AE94FC3AE11CAB7E03E052A9B2@everest.ad.pacificu.edu>

I saw Dennis Poulin's sign in McD's...they will re-open in November.

Mike



-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Davie <edavie at verizon.net>
Sent: August 27, 2010 8:37 PM
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Are we losing out mcdonald's


Their abuilding!


----- Original Message -----
From: "Holly Di" <redhead854 at msn.com>
To: <GroveNet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 8:16 PM
Subject: [Grovenet] Are we losing out mcdonald's


>I haven't heard anything and it's been down for a while?
>
> I miss it.
>
> Thanks
> Holly
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>

_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From NoSpam03 at comcast.net  Sat Aug 28 09:02:07 2010
From: NoSpam03 at comcast.net (Steven)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 09:02:07 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Are we losing out mcdonald's
In-Reply-To: <A7614C08-88B4-46E2-BEC2-8500A971CDAF@msn.com>
References: <A7614C08-88B4-46E2-BEC2-8500A971CDAF@msn.com>
Message-ID: <002401cb46ca$5e3aa1b0$1aafe510$@net>

Just another large corporation selling food that will make you unhealthy.
What is to miss? Red box?

Walmart has a Subway inside.


(:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
> Behalf Of Holly Di
> Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 8:17 PM
> To: GroveNet at rdrop.com
> Subject: [Grovenet] Are we losing out mcdonald's
> 
> I haven't heard anything and it's been down for a while?
> 
> I miss it.
> 
> Thanks
> Holly
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From debbratland at gmail.com  Sat Aug 28 09:16:44 2010
From: debbratland at gmail.com (Debra Bratland)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 08:16:44 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] Are we losing out mcdonald's
In-Reply-To: <002401cb46ca$5e3aa1b0$1aafe510$@net>
References: <A7614C08-88B4-46E2-BEC2-8500A971CDAF@msn.com>	<002401cb46ca$5e3aa1b0$1aafe510$@net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikJ=cY2UEOzN7EA+vT-7qQCjdKBM+1Poag-KmVx@mail.gmail.com>

What's to miss, Steven?  The regular hamburger with those sweet onion bits
and extra pickles!

Deb Bratland


On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 8:02 AM, Steven <NoSpam03 at comcast.net> wrote:

> Just another large corporation selling food that will make you unhealthy.
> What is to miss? Red box?
>
> Walmart has a Subway inside.
>
>
> (:
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
> > Behalf Of Holly Di
> > Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 8:17 PM
> > To: GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > Subject: [Grovenet] Are we losing out mcdonald's
> >
> > I haven't heard anything and it's been down for a while?
> >
> > I miss it.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Holly
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GroveNet mailing list
> > GroveNet at rdrop.com
> > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>

From jbcoops at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 28 11:40:33 2010
From: jbcoops at yahoo.com (Jeff Cooper)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 11:40:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] Are we losing out mcdonald's
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikJ=cY2UEOzN7EA+vT-7qQCjdKBM+1Poag-KmVx@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <506006.2861.qm@web55004.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

they're rebuilding it... bigger... faster... stronger than before... a new Bionic McD's should be up in a few months.



      

From nospam03 at comcast.net  Sat Aug 28 12:00:57 2010
From: nospam03 at comcast.net (Steve)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 19:00:57 +0000
Subject: [Grovenet] Are we losing out mcdonald's
Message-ID: <1877254942-1283022074-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-792082202-@bda284.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Are they going to use non rain forest beef? Non hydrogenated fats and oils?  Getting rid of corn syrup in the soft drinks? 
Shop local and all that. 
The construction will be a tax break for the business. This will decrease money for schools. 
Can I quote y'all next time you get down on big corporations?   
------Original Message------
From: Jeff Cooper
Sender: grovenet-bounces
To: Forest Grove local interests list
ReplyTo: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Are we losing out mcdonald's
Sent: Aug 28, 2010 11:40 AM

they're rebuilding it... bigger... faster... stronger than before... a new Bionic McD's should be up in a few months.



      
_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From debbratland at gmail.com  Sat Aug 28 12:23:19 2010
From: debbratland at gmail.com (Debra Bratland)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 11:23:19 -0800
Subject: [Grovenet] Are we losing out mcdonald's
In-Reply-To: <1877254942-1283022074-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-792082202-@bda284.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <1877254942-1283022074-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-792082202-@bda284.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinR4xditAqiHCdQ_Yd+R8kHwekMo_LnJ6qHgWdt@mail.gmail.com>

You're more than welcome to quote me when I say I like the regular McD's
hamburger, though I'm not sure to whom you refer when you say "y'all".



On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 11:00 AM, Steve <nospam03 at comcast.net> wrote:

> Are they going to use non rain forest beef? Non hydrogenated fats and oils?
>  Getting rid of corn syrup in the soft drinks?
> Shop local and all that.
> The construction will be a tax break for the business. This will decrease
> money for schools.
> Can I quote y'all next time you get down on big corporations?
>  ------Original Message------
> From: Jeff Cooper
> Sender: grovenet-bounces
> To: Forest Grove local interests list
> ReplyTo: Forest Grove local interests list
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Are we losing out mcdonald's
> Sent: Aug 28, 2010 11:40 AM
>
> they're rebuilding it... bigger... faster... stronger than before... a new
> Bionic McD's should be up in a few months.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>

From waltw at teleport.com  Sat Aug 28 15:15:10 2010
From: waltw at teleport.com (Walt Wentz)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 15:15:10 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Are we losing out mcdonald's
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinR4xditAqiHCdQ_Yd+R8kHwekMo_LnJ6qHgWdt@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1877254942-1283022074-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-792082202-@bda284.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<AANLkTinR4xditAqiHCdQ_Yd+R8kHwekMo_LnJ6qHgWdt@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AEED29E0-D1AF-4C1E-9E7C-3F202924EB14@teleport.com>


On Aug 28, 2010, at 12:23 PM, Debra Bratland wrote:

> You're more than welcome to quote me when I say I like the regular  
> McD's
> hamburger, though I'm not sure to whom you refer when you say "y'all".

Steve might be referring to the cow who gave her all for those 23,172  
regular hamburgers.... ;^)
>
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 11:00 AM, Steve <nospam03 at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Are they going to use non rain forest beef? Non hydrogenated fats  
>> and oils?
>>  Getting rid of corn syrup in the soft drinks?
>> Shop local and all that.
>> The construction will be a tax break for the business. This will  
>> decrease
>> money for schools.
>> Can I quote y'all next time you get down on big corporations?
>>  ------Original Message------
>> From: Jeff Cooper
>> Sender: grovenet-bounces
>> To: Forest Grove local interests list
>> ReplyTo: Forest Grove local interests list
>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Are we losing out mcdonald's
>> Sent: Aug 28, 2010 11:40 AM
>>
>> they're rebuilding it... bigger... faster... stronger than  
>> before... a new
>> Bionic McD's should be up in a few months.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From edavie at verizon.net  Sat Aug 28 15:53:07 2010
From: edavie at verizon.net (Ed Davie)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 15:53:07 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Are we losing out mcdonald's
References: <1877254942-1283022074-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-792082202-@bda284.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<AANLkTinR4xditAqiHCdQ_Yd+R8kHwekMo_LnJ6qHgWdt@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <31155B271630408DA0FED8EDCE759DA6@EdsPortable>

Perhaps the very worst hamburger in the world!
Ed


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Debra Bratland" <debbratland at gmail.com>
To: <nospam03 at comcast.net>; "Forest Grove local interests list" 
<grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Are we losing out mcdonald's


> You're more than welcome to quote me when I say I like the regular McD's
> hamburger, though I'm not sure to whom you refer when you say "y'all".
>
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 11:00 AM, Steve <nospam03 at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Are they going to use non rain forest beef? Non hydrogenated fats and 
>> oils?
>>  Getting rid of corn syrup in the soft drinks?
>> Shop local and all that.
>> The construction will be a tax break for the business. This will decrease
>> money for schools.
>> Can I quote y'all next time you get down on big corporations?
>>  ------Original Message------
>> From: Jeff Cooper
>> Sender: grovenet-bounces
>> To: Forest Grove local interests list
>> ReplyTo: Forest Grove local interests list
>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Are we losing out mcdonald's
>> Sent: Aug 28, 2010 11:40 AM
>>
>> they're rebuilding it... bigger... faster... stronger than before... a 
>> new
>> Bionic McD's should be up in a few months.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> 



From edavie at verizon.net  Sat Aug 28 15:54:08 2010
From: edavie at verizon.net (Ed Davie)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 15:54:08 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Are we losing out mcdonald's
References: <1877254942-1283022074-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-792082202-@bda284.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <E71BA4485678493C90A6FA0CC462DC8A@EdsPortable>

We can only hope, Steve!
Ed


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve" <nospam03 at comcast.net>
To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Are we losing out mcdonald's


> Are they going to use non rain forest beef? Non hydrogenated fats and 
> oils?  Getting rid of corn syrup in the soft drinks?
> Shop local and all that.
> The construction will be a tax break for the business. This will decrease 
> money for schools.
> Can I quote y'all next time you get down on big corporations?
> ------Original Message------
> From: Jeff Cooper
> Sender: grovenet-bounces
> To: Forest Grove local interests list
> ReplyTo: Forest Grove local interests list
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Are we losing out mcdonald's
> Sent: Aug 28, 2010 11:40 AM
>
> they're rebuilding it... bigger... faster... stronger than before... a new 
> Bionic McD's should be up in a few months.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
> 



From jo.david at verizon.net  Sat Aug 28 20:50:24 2010
From: jo.david at verizon.net (David Morelli)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 20:50:24 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Are we losing out mcdonald's
In-Reply-To: <E71BA4485678493C90A6FA0CC462DC8A@EdsPortable>
References: <1877254942-1283022074-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-792082202-@bda284.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<E71BA4485678493C90A6FA0CC462DC8A@EdsPortable>
Message-ID: <0D262525-C4D4-4763-9411-37968377598A@verizon.net>

I don't shop at McD's very often, but I did learn a lot about their economic model when I worked for them.

My first job that wasn't picking berries.  Wow, did I like the option of earning money without pushing a carrier through the mud of a strawberry field.

I do believe that we should allow children to learn field work so that they can truly appreciate other jobs.

David

> From: Jeff Cooper
> 
> they're rebuilding it... bigger... faster... stronger than before... a new Bionic McD's should be up in a few months.



From waltw at teleport.com  Sat Aug 28 21:57:46 2010
From: waltw at teleport.com (Walt Wentz)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 21:57:46 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Are we losing out mcdonald's
In-Reply-To: <0D262525-C4D4-4763-9411-37968377598A@verizon.net>
References: <1877254942-1283022074-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-792082202-@bda284.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<E71BA4485678493C90A6FA0CC462DC8A@EdsPortable>
	<0D262525-C4D4-4763-9411-37968377598A@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <C8F15836-8613-4EE4-B234-2552E9C0075D@teleport.com>


On Aug 28, 2010, at 8:50 PM, David Morelli wrote:

> I don't shop at McD's very often, but I did learn a lot about their  
> economic model when I worked for them.
>
> My first job that wasn't picking berries.  Wow, did I like the  
> option of earning money without pushing a carrier through the mud  
> of a strawberry field.
>
> I do believe that we should allow children to learn field work so  
> that they can truly appreciate other jobs.
>
> David
Yep, I do agree, David. After sunburned weeks in the bean-yards and  
berry fields, we kids did learn how to value money!
WW



From waltw at teleport.com  Sun Aug 29 09:01:53 2010
From: waltw at teleport.com (Walt Wentz)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 09:01:53 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Dry Water, I kid you not!
In-Reply-To: <0D262525-C4D4-4763-9411-37968377598A@verizon.net>
References: <1877254942-1283022074-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-792082202-@bda284.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<E71BA4485678493C90A6FA0CC462DC8A@EdsPortable>
	<0D262525-C4D4-4763-9411-37968377598A@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <B6CBF173-71E7-4ED0-9877-01911DDC57AD@teleport.com>

Here's a real oddity-- dry water, which appears to have all sorts of  
potentially valuable applications. Much depends, of course, on just  
how much energy is required to make it, and economies of scale.
http://www.care2.com/causes/environment/blog/dry-water-no-longer- 
fiction/


From ocollaugh at comcast.net  Sun Aug 29 10:11:52 2010
From: ocollaugh at comcast.net (donkelly)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 17:11:52 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Grovenet] Dry Water, I kid you not!
In-Reply-To: <B6CBF173-71E7-4ED0-9877-01911DDC57AD@teleport.com>
Message-ID: <450605730.514294.1283101912452.JavaMail.root@sz0024a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

It is so pure that it sucks oxygen out of the air. Beware.<G>
don
----- Original Message -----
From: Walt Wentz <waltw at teleport.com>
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 16:01:53 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Grovenet] Dry Water, I kid you not!

Here's a real oddity-- dry water, which appears to have all sorts of  
potentially valuable applications. Much depends, of course, on just  
how much energy is required to make it, and economies of scale.
http://www.care2.com/causes/environment/blog/dry-water-no-longer- 
fiction/

_______________________________________________
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From jbcoops at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 29 10:42:20 2010
From: jbcoops at yahoo.com (Jeff Cooper)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 10:42:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] Annie's Grants for Gardens
In-Reply-To: <E71BA4485678493C90A6FA0CC462DC8A@EdsPortable>
Message-ID: <158629.51370.qm@web55007.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

Annie's Grants for Gardens

I came across this from Tapped In (a professional educators' collaborative where I volunteer on Helpdesk).? I thought I'd forward it to the grovenet gardeners who can pass it along to the Community School people, Roots & Shoots at Tom McCall etc.? It seems like an excellent way to bring a few bucks into our schools for something that they're already involved with:

Regards,

Jeff Cooper



      

From waltw at teleport.com  Sun Aug 29 11:49:36 2010
From: waltw at teleport.com (Walt Wentz)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 11:49:36 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Dry Water, I kid you not!
In-Reply-To: <450605730.514294.1283101912452.JavaMail.root@sz0024a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
References: <450605730.514294.1283101912452.JavaMail.root@sz0024a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <6F0E192E-FF93-4636-A10C-9646C9D21C94@teleport.com>

They mentioned it absorbing carbon dioxide and methane, both  
potentially useful traits. Unanswered was how much it could absorb,  
and whether you could make enough of the stuff to really perform  
useful work... also, how you would sequester it. I assume you could  
liberate the water (and absorbed gases) by heating the mixture.  
Whether this will just remain a scientific curiosity, like aerogel,  
or can be put to use will depend on the answers to those questions.
WW
On Aug 29, 2010, at 10:11 AM, donkelly wrote:

> It is so pure that it sucks oxygen out of the air. Beware.<G>
> don
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Walt Wentz <waltw at teleport.com>
> To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> Sent: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 16:01:53 -0000 (UTC)
> Subject: [Grovenet] Dry Water, I kid you not!
>
> Here's a real oddity-- dry water, which appears to have all sorts of
> potentially valuable applications. Much depends, of course, on just
> how much energy is required to make it, and economies of scale.
> http://www.care2.com/causes/environment/blog/dry-water-no-longer-
> fiction/
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From nospam03 at comcast.net  Sun Aug 29 11:58:00 2010
From: nospam03 at comcast.net (Steve)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 18:58:00 +0000
Subject: [Grovenet] Dry Water, I kid you not!
In-Reply-To: <6F0E192E-FF93-4636-A10C-9646C9D21C94@teleport.com>
References: <450605730.514294.1283101912452.JavaMail.root@sz0024a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net><6F0E192E-FF93-4636-A10C-9646C9D21C94@teleport.com>
Message-ID: <759124127-1283108299-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-117751159-@bda284.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

I'd think it would turn to sandstone. 
-----Original Message-----
From: Walt Wentz <waltw at teleport.com>
Sender: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 11:49:36 
To: Forest Grove local interests list<grovenet at rdrop.com>
Reply-To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Dry Water, I kid you not!

They mentioned it absorbing carbon dioxide and methane, both  
potentially useful traits. Unanswered was how much it could absorb,  
and whether you could make enough of the stuff to really perform  
useful work... also, how you would sequester it. I assume you could  
liberate the water (and absorbed gases) by heating the mixture.  
Whether this will just remain a scientific curiosity, like aerogel,  
or can be put to use will depend on the answers to those questions.
WW
On Aug 29, 2010, at 10:11 AM, donkelly wrote:

> It is so pure that it sucks oxygen out of the air. Beware.<G>
> don
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Walt Wentz <waltw at teleport.com>
> To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> Sent: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 16:01:53 -0000 (UTC)
> Subject: [Grovenet] Dry Water, I kid you not!
>
> Here's a real oddity-- dry water, which appears to have all sorts of
> potentially valuable applications. Much depends, of course, on just
> how much energy is required to make it, and economies of scale.
> http://www.care2.com/causes/environment/blog/dry-water-no-longer-
> fiction/
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


From jbcoops at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 29 12:00:09 2010
From: jbcoops at yahoo.com (Jeff Cooper)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 12:00:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] Dry Water, I kid you not!
In-Reply-To: <6F0E192E-FF93-4636-A10C-9646C9D21C94@teleport.com>
Message-ID: <587961.80061.qm@web55008.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

i'll be posting this to the Science Resources group at Tapped In and bring it up during our next live group meeting (first Tuesday of every month at 5pm).? parents are welcome to join as well!

i created a shortcut http://snurl.com/drywater

regards,

jeff





      

From ocollaugh at comcast.net  Sun Aug 29 12:03:56 2010
From: ocollaugh at comcast.net (donkelly)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 19:03:56 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Grovenet] Dry Water, I kid you not!
In-Reply-To: <587961.80061.qm@web55008.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <935815614.517524.1283108636950.JavaMail.root@sz0024a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

Beginning research around 1964, now they got it, but don't know what it will do.

Seems the first current task is testing the droplets for durability.

don
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Cooper <jbcoops at yahoo.com>
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 19:00:09 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Dry Water, I kid you not!

i'll be posting this to the Science Resources group at Tapped In and bring it up during our next live group meeting (first Tuesday of every month at 5pm).? parents are welcome to join as well!

i created a shortcut http://snurl.com/drywater

regards,

jeff





      
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GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet




From waltw at teleport.com  Sun Aug 29 12:44:46 2010
From: waltw at teleport.com (Walt Wentz)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 12:44:46 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Dry Water, I kid you not!
In-Reply-To: <935815614.517524.1283108636950.JavaMail.root@sz0024a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
References: <935815614.517524.1283108636950.JavaMail.root@sz0024a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <31DDD700-3248-45A5-AE91-ED12E2CB9CF6@teleport.com>


On Aug 29, 2010, at 12:03 PM, donkelly wrote:

> Beginning research around 1964, now they got it, but don't know  
> what it will do.
>
> Seems the first current task is testing the droplets for durability.

If it forms a crystalline lattice structure, as with ancient Roman  
concrete,  the droplets might last many centuries. One reason  
sequestration might be an issue.
>
> don
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jeff Cooper <jbcoops at yahoo.com>
> To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> Sent: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 19:00:09 -0000 (UTC)
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Dry Water, I kid you not!
>
> i'll be posting this to the Science Resources group at Tapped In  
> and bring it up during our next live group meeting (first Tuesday  
> of every month at 5pm).  parents are welcome to join as well!
>
> i created a shortcut http://snurl.com/drywater
>
> regards,
>
> jeff
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From ocollaugh at comcast.net  Sun Aug 29 13:09:21 2010
From: ocollaugh at comcast.net (donkelly)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 20:09:21 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Grovenet] Dry Water, I kid you not!
In-Reply-To: <31DDD700-3248-45A5-AE91-ED12E2CB9CF6@teleport.com>
Message-ID: <955093755.519453.1283112561207.JavaMail.root@sz0024a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

One would think Roman cement would have been analyzed by now.

later
don
----- Original Message -----
From: Walt Wentz <waltw at teleport.com>
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 19:44:46 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Dry Water, I kid you not!


On Aug 29, 2010, at 12:03 PM, donkelly wrote:

> Beginning research around 1964, now they got it, but don't know  
> what it will do.
>
> Seems the first current task is testing the droplets for durability.

If it forms a crystalline lattice structure, as with ancient Roman  
concrete,  the droplets might last many centuries. One reason  
sequestration might be an issue.
>
> don
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jeff Cooper <jbcoops at yahoo.com>
> To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> Sent: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 19:00:09 -0000 (UTC)
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Dry Water, I kid you not!
>
> i'll be posting this to the Science Resources group at Tapped In  
> and bring it up during our next live group meeting (first Tuesday  
> of every month at 5pm).  parents are welcome to join as well!
>
> i created a shortcut http://snurl.com/drywater
>
> regards,
>
> jeff
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet


_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From waltw at teleport.com  Sun Aug 29 16:36:18 2010
From: waltw at teleport.com (Walt Wentz)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 16:36:18 -0700
Subject: [Grovenet] Dry Water, I kid you not!
In-Reply-To: <955093755.519453.1283112561207.JavaMail.root@sz0024a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
References: <955093755.519453.1283112561207.JavaMail.root@sz0024a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <EF1204F5-3EA9-4C4E-991C-8768B73FA083@teleport.com>

It has been. I recall a article in Scientific American, many years  
ago, that included photomicrographs of its structure. Quite interesting.
In fact, the Romans even developed one form of hydraulic cement that  
would harden under water.
WW
On Aug 29, 2010, at 1:09 PM, donkelly wrote:

> One would think Roman cement would have been analyzed by now.
>
> later
> don
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Walt Wentz <waltw at teleport.com>
> To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> Sent: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 19:44:46 -0000 (UTC)
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Dry Water, I kid you not!
>
>
> On Aug 29, 2010, at 12:03 PM, donkelly wrote:
>
>> Beginning research around 1964, now they got it, but don't know
>> what it will do.
>>
>> Seems the first current task is testing the droplets for durability.
>
> If it forms a crystalline lattice structure, as with ancient Roman
> concrete,  the droplets might last many centuries. One reason
> sequestration might be an issue.
>>
>> don
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Jeff Cooper <jbcoops at yahoo.com>
>> To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
>> Sent: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 19:00:09 -0000 (UTC)
>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Dry Water, I kid you not!
>>
>> i'll be posting this to the Science Resources group at Tapped In
>> and bring it up during our next live group meeting (first Tuesday
>> of every month at 5pm).  parents are welcome to join as well!
>>
>> i created a shortcut http://snurl.com/drywater
>>
>> regards,
>>
>> jeff
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet



From jbcoops at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 30 17:40:08 2010
From: jbcoops at yahoo.com (Jeff Cooper)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 17:40:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Grovenet] Educational Resources for FGSD
In-Reply-To: <657286.1283201812657.JavaMail.www@app309>
Message-ID: <788709.51474.qm@web55003.mail.re4.yahoo.com>



 
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