[Grovenet] who wins in Wisconsin?

Walt Wentz waltw at teleport.com
Thu Sep 1 22:16:02 PDT 2011


For a man who served in so many disease-ridden areas in two wars, it  
is remarkable that Herring lived to the age of 90.

On Sep 1, 2011, at 8:16 PM, donkelly wrote:

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
>
> Curious coincidence as I recently wrote a history on the battles of  
> the 39th against the Japanese on the Kokoda Trail.
>
> don
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Walt Wentz" <waltw at teleport.com>
> To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> Sent: Thursday, September 1, 2011 6:36:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] who wins in Wisconsin?
>
> Big difference. All the money in big business flows into a few big
> bank accounts, and never stirs from there. The higher wages generated
> by unions flows into all members' pockets, and from there back into
> the local community.
> WW
> On Sep 1, 2011, at 4:00 PM, donkelly wrote:
>
>> But it wasn't shared by the unions was it? Big business and union
>> is big business. No different.
>>
>> don
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Walt Wentz" <waltw at teleport.com>
>> To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, September 1, 2011 3:40:17 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] who wins in Wisconsin?
>>
>> The situation as described would seem more plausible if Walker
>> himself acted upon it. But the fact that this increasingly scarce
>> money was poured into the pockets of his corporate henchmen (and that
>> floods of corporate and special-interest money were poured into the
>> recall battle) would indicate that not even the Republicans involved
>> subscribe to this argument. In short, They may have "talked the
>> talk", but the walk that they walked was, "everyone must lower their
>> expectations, give up the remnants of their power and accept a
>> smaller piece of the pie-- except for the wealthy and powerful, who
>> will decide how (or if) the pie is divided."
>> WW
>> On Sep 1, 2011, at 1:30 PM, donkelly wrote:
>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
>>> Modern_liberalism_in_the_United_States#Early_modern_liberalism
>>>
>>> The fall can be traced back to the beginning, and graphed today.
>>> This did not happen when Obanation started. It began a century ago.
>>>
>>> http://www.seedsforthought.org/articles/lib_con.htm
>>>
>>> TAX AND SPEND ADVOCATES?
>>>
>>>
>>> No wonder their status among up to 88% of Americans has steadily
>>> fallen with the sinking of our economy.
>>>
>>> Marian said, "Isn't that what good competition should be
>>> about?"
>>>
>>> To that I would conditionally agree.
>>>
>>> In a state where teacher salaries start at 36,000 a year and top
>>> out after 20 years to $56,000 per year, the starting salaries are
>>> fixed and non discriminatory......all starting teachers whether
>>> union or not should receive the same salary.
>>>
>>> The union teachers pay more out for union dues, but that is their
>>> choice. And teachers like everyone else should pay part of their
>>> health insurance.
>>>
>>> At the extreme, and very unfair, is compulsory unionism along with
>>> compulsory dues. All teachers should be treated equally, and pay
>>> increases should be based on performance, not based on union
>>> demands which have nothing in common with performance, except time.
>>>
>>> But in closing, liberals can blame their fallen reputations to a
>>> certain degree on themselves.
>>>
>>> They seem not to understand that government cannot continue to
>>> spend money it doesn't have, then borrow money to pay debts. The
>>> conservatives understand that fact......a day of reconing, most of
>>> them anyway it seems, while the liberals do not understand the
>>> basic and painful facts.......you can't do it without
>>> money......and the money comes out of your pockets, and all of our
>>> pockets.
>>>
>>> Sure most of my views are conservative, but sometimes liberal and
>>> oft times democratic or republican......all have some good points
>>> which could be put together in a mix that benefits everyone.
>>>
>>> dk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Walt Wentz" <waltw at teleport.com>
>>> To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 1, 2011 9:27:26 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] who wins in Wisconsin?
>>>
>>> It took only a few years for them to "reframe"  the word "liberal"
>>> into an obscenity, because ordinary working people didn't identify
>>> with it. But so far, the phrase "living wage" is bulletproof because
>>> it is a working-class ideal, and so you seldom hear it mentioned at
>>> all in Republican circles.
>>> WW
>>> On Sep 1, 2011, at 8:52 AM, redwagon wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'd say you hit the nail on the head.
>>>>
>>>> In addition, it seems we are traveling down quite a hole.  The R's
>>>> are doing
>>>> their best to erode pay and benefits of anyone living a comfortable
>>>> lifestyle - it becomes a downward spiral affecting everyone.  It
>>>> gives those
>>>> in power, license to demean and treat everyone badly.
>>>>
>>>> Wouldn't it be better to try to raise everyone up to good pay and
>>>> benefits?
>>>> Wouldn't everyone benefit?  Isn't that what good competition
>>>> should be
>>>> about?
>>>>
>>>> Marian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Steele, Mike
>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 8:19 AM
>>>> To: Forest Grove local interests list
>>>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] who wins in Wisconsin?
>>>>
>>>> One wonders why the Rs are so indifferent to, or hostile to, the
>>>> life of the
>>>> mind.  Is education in itself a threat to their "program"?
>>>>
>>>> --Mike
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-
>>>> bounces at rdrop.com] On
>>>> Behalf Of Walt Wentz
>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 7:45 AM
>>>> To: Forest Grove local interests list
>>>> Subject: [Grovenet] who wins in Wisconsin?
>>>>
>>>> Interesting article at  http://www.care2.com/causes/wisconsin-
>>>> teachers-retire-en-masse-in-response-to-cuts.html#ixzz1WiD0xhEs
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker and his GOP cronies in the
>>>> Legislature strong-armed through a union-busting bill, they touted
>>>> the effects it would have on the free market. Well, the market has
>>>> spoken, and it's not happy. Associate Press reported today that
>>>> teachers in Wisconsin are retiring at twice the normal rate in
>>>> response to budget cuts that affect their benefits and ability to
>>>> collectively bargain.
>>>>
>>>> Though many public sectors in Wisconsin are seeing more retirements
>>>> than usual, for schools this is especially problematic, as fewer
>>>> teachers means even larger class sizes. It's quickly turning into a
>>>> veritable teacher shortage; the district of Beloit, for example,  
>>>> has
>>>> seen 10% of their teachers retire, meaning that they have far more
>>>> vacancies than they can reasonably hope to fill before the year
>>>> starts.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps an even bigger problem is that most of the retirements are
>>>> coming from veteran teachers, who have been in the system for  
>>>> years.
>>>> Green Bay German teacher Ginny Fleck is quoted by AP as saying,  
>>>> "All
>>>> of the leadership is gone. Some of these younger people who come in
>>>> need help from the older teachers and they are gone. Plus, the
>>>> morale
>>>> is really down." Fleck goes on to say that one reason why she
>>>> considered leaving was the economics: if she was to stay as a
>>>> teacher, the hit she would take would have been so large that she
>>>> would have lost $8,000...
>>>>
>>>>
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