[Oeva-list] EV Awareness Day vehicles
gladed at glamber.com
Fri Aug 12 14:39:41 PDT 2005
I'm a lurker here too and I found your comments very interesting. About
me: I've been riding a Gizmo to work for 1.5 years until I had some
engine problem that I haven't diagnosed yet (and I've been enjoying my
recumbent in the nice weather). So I'll respond from the point of view
of an all-electric advocate.
> /1) Even regular cars don't run 'purely' on gasoline - without
electricity they are dead in the water. /
1) Regular cars, including hybrids, do run entirely off of gasoline.
Yes, they have electrical systems but all of the energy that causes the
car to move forward ultimately comes from a single source: oil.
> /2) I'm sure I don't have to tell the EV owners that their cars and
parts took approximately $2k - $3k worth of oil to manufacture right? /
2) Guess that depends on the type of electric car you are driving. But
if someone reclaims a vehicle body/drive chain and retrofits it with an
electric engine you can't really say that the electric conversion cost
an _/additional_ /$3k of oil.
/> 3) I'm sure I don't have to tell the EV owners that the electricity
coming out of the walls is made by burning mostly natural gas right?
3) True, but the electricity is produced with far more efficiency than
is possible via a consumer grade, mobile generator. In addition, using a
smaller electric vehicle like the Gizmo means less overall weight to
push around. I use more energy brewing my coffee in the morning than I
use driving to work.
/> 4) I'm sure I also don't need to remind EV owners that by conserving
energy using an EV vehicle means nothing if not done with respect to
Jevons paradox and what the leftover conserved energy is used for. /
4) Less is less. The Jevons paradox would apply if the use of electric
vehicles somehow caused overall transportation use to INCREASE. That
might apply to hybrid owners whose increased fuel efficiency results in
two or three long-range car vacations instead of one. But I could drive
my Gizmo all day and still not consume the energy that a standard
gas-powered vehicle would use, just driving across town a few times.
As for the rest of your post, the question is between two models for
electric vehicle advocacy. 1) advocate that people accept electric
vehicles by easing them into the water with baby steps like the Prius,
or 2) just shock their shells off with a fundamentally different way of
thinking about how you motate from point A to point B. Which one will be
more effective? Who knows. But IMHO model #2 is just plain more fun :-)
Gizmo driver since 2003
Todd at realeyz wrote:
> On Aug 12, 2005, at 9:19 AM, Ralph Merwin wrote:
>> George Tylinski writes:
>>> I like the Insight and Prius, but the fact remains that they run
>>> purely on gas today. They do get very good MPG (a clear fact,
>>> one that the public has managed to become confused about anyway)
>>> but where does one draw the line? "Only vehicles with an
>>> electric-only drive mode", "only vehicles with greater
>>> equivalent MPG than the best gas only vehicle currently on the
>>> market"? Now I'm confusing myself.
>> My point exactly. By using a plug/no plug measure we can eliminate
>> the confusion.
>> Besides, we're not the "Oregon Hybrid Vehicle Assoc" and we're not
>> having an "Alternative Fuel Vehicle Awareness Day". We are the
>> "Oregon Electric Vehicle Assoc" and were having an "Electric Vehicle
>> Awareness Day". It's difficult to make people aware of electric
>> vehicles by displaying a bunch of high-tech gas guzzlers.
> Hi guys - this is my first post, but I have been lurking for the past
> couple months now. I just recently bought a Honda Insight and plan
> to attend the awareness day. I also have done extensive research
> into EV vehicles and the public access to these vehicles. Yes I
> would really like to have one instead of my Insight, but as you
> already know - they aren't really very accessible yet to laymen and
> common folk.
> I have to say I take a little bit of offense to this hybrid/EV issue
> - I mean I can confuse the issue a whole lot more than a plug-in/no
> plug-in mentality:
> 1) Even regular cars don't run 'purely' on gasoline - without
> electricity they are dead in the water.
> 2) I'm sure I don't have to tell the EV owners that their cars and
> parts took approximately $2k - $3k worth of oil to manufacture right?
> 3) I'm sure I don't have to tell the EV owners that the electricity
> coming out of the walls is made by burning mostly natural gas right?
> 4) I'm sure I also don't need to remind EV owners that by conserving
> energy using an EV vehicle means nothing if not done with respect to
> Jevons paradox and what the leftover conserved energy is used for.
> Yes of course I know all the benefits of having an EV vehicle and yes
> I would love to have one. But last I checked there aren't any
> available to the general public in a way beyond a fringe sub-culture
> type of framework. Making the public aware of EV means very little if
> they can't turn around and use that information for something
> constructive - the only real thing they can do now is go down to
> their local car dealership and demand they build electric vehicles
> (which I have done myself several times already). I am not an
> engineer, hobbyist kind of guy who can just go out and buy parts and
> build one or convert one for myself - I am a graphic designer who
> runs a home based business with very little extra time as it is.
> Oh and BTW - if you are an EV owner and you use your EV to commute
> back and forth to work every day, guess who uses less energy and
> pollutes less between you with your EV and me and my hybrid?
> I guess my point is that overall education of alternative
> transportation and energy use to the public is much more important
> than just electric vehicle awareness. I'm not sure how many of you
> are really familiar with peak oil, Hubbert's peak, and the coming
> very severe energy crisis due to this phenomenon, but it's NOT a
> pretty picture and if we don't start making changes NOW then we are
> facing some EXTREMELY difficult times ahead.
> I look forward to meeting with you all and talking with you on the 20th.
> - todd
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