[Oeva-list] EV Awareness Day vehicles

Todd at realeyz todd at realeyz.com
Fri Aug 12 15:56:12 PDT 2005


Hi Glade - thanx for your response.

On Aug 12, 2005, at 2:39 PM, Glade Diviney wrote:
> > 2) I'm sure I don't have to tell the EV owners that their cars  
> and  parts took approximately $2k - $3k worth of oil to manufacture  
> right?
>
> 2) Guess that depends on the type of electric car you are driving.  
> But if someone reclaims a vehicle body/drive chain and retrofits it  
> with an electric engine you can't really say that the electric  
> conversion cost an _additional_ $3k of oil.

Yes I understand, but I never said 'additional'.  And I stand by the  
fact that all EV vehicles would not be able to move without oil  
either - in fact they wouldn't even exist without oil most likely.

> > 3) I'm sure I don't have to tell the EV owners that the  
> electricity  coming out of the walls is made by burning mostly  
> natural gas right?
>
> 3) True, but the electricity is produced with far more efficiency  
> than is possible via a consumer grade, mobile generator. In  
> addition, using a smaller electric vehicle like the Gizmo means  
> less overall weight to push around. I use more energy brewing my  
> coffee in the morning than I use driving to work.

Yes of course, but again conservation means nothing unless it  
tempered with the understanding of how it ultimately plays out in our  
consciousness.  Look at past attempt at conservation - have we really  
lessened our use of resources or allowed more growth of the  
population therefore causing increased use of resources?

> > 4) I'm sure I also don't need to remind EV owners that by  
> conserving  energy using an EV vehicle means nothing if not done  
> with respect to  Jevons paradox and what the leftover conserved  
> energy is used for.
>
> 4) Less is less. The Jevons paradox would apply if the use of  
> electric vehicles somehow caused overall transportation use to  
> INCREASE. That might apply to hybrid owners whose increased fuel  
> efficiency results in two or three long-range car vacations instead  
> of one. But I could drive my Gizmo all day and still not consume  
> the energy that a standard gas-powered vehicle would use, just  
> driving across town a few times.

You are not thinking big-picture.  This is sort of the problem I  
speak of - we all seem to think in terms of ourselves in the small  
bubble of our own lives and not how it affects the big picture social  
condition. Your use of an electric vehicle is removing the demand for  
fuel of one car - this 1 person 1 car fuel now becomes available to  
the general population to use and grow from.  So you see how unless  
ALL of us discover that our assumptions about economic and social  
growth is good then we aren't really changing anything. I have  
wrestled with this myself when I really started changing my energy  
use habits - Thinking about Jevons paradox almost makes it seem like  
its pointless and it may very well be pointless, I dunno but we have  
to start somewhere.

Go take a look at the population numbers for the past 2000 years -  
now look at the spike in the early 1900's - this is purely due to the  
discovery and industrialization of oil.  Now because we have  
squandered that oil for 100 years, we are in a situation where the  
almost 7 billion people in existence are dependent on the continual  
flow of that oil for their very survival.  Chevron recently came out  
with a national ad campaign that reads:

"It took us 125 years to use the first trillion barrels of oil...
"We'll use the last trillion in 30."

If you want more info go to http://www.willyoujoinus.com

So when someone says we should not allow hybrids in to the EV  
awareness day it just sounds elitest and does nothing to help public  
awareness of the big picture problems we are facing.  A fundamental  
change in our thinking is needed to make necessary changes for our  
future - not just alternative transportation methods.

> As for the rest of your post, the question is between two models  
> for electric vehicle advocacy. 1) advocate that people accept  
> electric vehicles by easing them into the water with baby steps  
> like the Prius, or 2) just shock their shells off with a  
> fundamentally different way of thinking about how you motate from  
> point A to point B. Which one will be more effective? Who knows.  
> But IMHO model #2 is just plain more fun :-)

Of course but if we really want to go the purest route here then  
forget about motorized and mechanized transportation altogether and  
bring out the horses and bicycles!!  At least with the bikes we can  
not only move around but also dramatically increase our health in the  
process - not THATS progress!

- todd


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