[Oeva-list] Re: charging in Salem & Wiring 220 plugs?

Graunke, Gary gary.graunke at intel.com
Mon Jun 19 08:51:35 PDT 2006

I didn't explain it well, either.


For residential service, you have single phase 240V with a center tap
that is the neutral wire. 

Let's call one side X, and the other Y, and the neutral N. So between X
and Y you have 240V. 

There is also a safety ground Gwhich is connected to N in a very
specific manner that I don't recall. 

Between X and N you have 120V, and between Y and N you have 120V. 


In your house, one half of the 120V circuits are between X and N, and
the other half between Y and N. The X or Y is the "hot" wire which is
usually (but not always) black and the small flat blade on a 3 prong
NEMA5-15 (ordinary 110V) plug. The Neutral is usually the white wire and
the large flat blade. The ground is round.

The circuit breakers are on the "hot" (X or Y) wires-they are not
supposed to be on the neutral. (Though sometimes I have seen houses
where someone occasionally switched the neutral instead of the hot
wire-very bad!). 


So if you take two random 120V circuits, and take the "hot" (X or Y)
wires, you might have 0 Volts between them if they are both X or both Y,
or you might have 240V if you have one of each. 


If you have 0 volts and the breakers are each 20A, you could connect the
two wires and get 120V to neutral, but with up to 40A (assuming the two
breakers are perfectly balanced). However, if you think both are from
the same side but they are not, you will have a dead short, and I hope
those breakers work! You have double the power at 40*120 = 4800 watts.


If you have 240 volts and the breakers are 20A, you still only have 20A.
(But you still have only double the power: 240 * 20 = 4800 watts). 


So you would need four circuits, two X and two Y, and wire them
correctly for this to work.  


I would not recommend trying this!


Finally, some places (commercial and industrial) have 3 phase and other
types of wiring, and it can get even more complicated.





From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On
Behalf Of Theoldcars at aol.com
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 12:17 AM
To: gary at whitecape.org
Cc: barnes.rick at verizon.net; oeva-list at oeva.org
Subject: [Oeva-list] Re: charging in Salem & Wiring 220 plugs?


Hello Gary


I did not explain that well.


The place I am going to has existing 220 plugs in the hotel rooms for
air conditioners. They are 20 amps circuits. If I plug into two rooms
and run them into one I would still have 220 but at 40 amps.


I could wire the plugs the same so they would not run power from
different legs together. This would work as long as they wired all the
rooms the same. I am sure the place does not want me to start taking
their wall plugs out of the wall or pulling their breaker box panel off.


Do I just assume they wired all the plugs the same or should I make up a
little circuit breaker box with two 20 amp plugs in and one 40 amp plug
out? If it flip the breaker then I could just switch the wires on one 20
amp 220 air conditioner wall plug.







In a message dated 6/18/2006 10:23:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
gary at whitecape.org writes:

	I would look much harder for 220V at 30A again.
	You would need at least 4 110V 20A circuits under ideal
conditions to 
	make 220V at 40A. It would have to be a single phase circuit
with 2 on 
	one leg and two on the other with a common neutral.
	However, this is unlikely to happen by accident. In addition,
it's not 
	uncommon for folks to get the neutral and hot wires crossed, and
	may not be detected by normal 110V operation. When you put them 
	together, all sorts of things can happen (mostly not good
	In addition, they may have different kinds of power, depending
	whether they are residential, commercial, or industrial.
	Multiple parallel chargers work if they are isolated--some that
we like 
	a lot (including PFC's) are not.
	So I would check out the RV campgrounds near Salem. They usually
have an 
	outlet like we have downtown--NEMA 14-50.
	Theoldcars at aol.com wrote:
	> Hello Rick
	> Thank you for the information. I figured out it will take
around 4 hours 
	> charging to make it from Portland to Salem and back.
	> I checked out the circuit breaker panel where I will be at.
They have no 
	> 220 thirty amp circuit that I can access.  However they do
have multiple 
	> 20 amp 220 plugs for their in room air conditioners that are
all home run. 
	> If they will allow me does anyone see a problem with wiring
two 20 
	> amp 220 plugs together into a single 40 amp 220 plug? Not
being an 
	> electrician I am wondering if the code addresses my concern.
Is wiring 
	> always run from the buses the same way to all the plugs in a
	> If I it turns out I cannot plug in there. Does anyone know of
	> charging locations in Salem? I will be there for four hours
	> Commercial Street Near Ruebler Blvd off I-5 exit 252.
	> Thanks
	> Don
	> In a message dated 6/18/2006 8:06:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

	> barnes.rick at verizon.net writes:
	>     Don:
	>     There is a campground right at the Woodburn exit.
	>     I would call ahead and speak with the manager to let them
know you
	>     are coming.
	>     Portland-Woodburn Rv Park
	>     _http://www.woodburnrv.com/_
	>     Address: 115 N Arney Rd, Woodburn, OR 97071
	>     Phone: (503) 981-0002
	>     Directions:
	>     Take exit #271/OR-214 toward SILVERTON/WOODBURN - go 0.2
	>     Turn on NEWBERG HWY - go 0.1 mi Turn on N ARNEY RD - go <
	>     0.1 mi
	>      >Hi Rick,
	>      >
	>      >I am sure we can work something out - it will depend
upon which of our
	>     sites is available at the time you come in. If we charge
you $1.00
	>     each time you recharge does that seem fair enough?
	>      >
	>      >If you like you can tell others about our availability.
	>      >
	>      >Our office is open 8:00 am to 9:00 pm. Should you come
in before 8:00
	>      >AM
	>     you could use space #99, #101, #102 located next to the
mini storage
	>     sheds on the east side of the RV Park and come in to
settle up with
	>     us after we are open that day or drop the money through
the front
	>     office door. We have "after hour registration" envelopes
located in
	>     the black mail box at the front of the office you could
place your
	>     money in before dropping through the mail slot.
	>      >
	>      >Connie Grade
	>      >Manager
	>     Also Pheasant Ridge RV _http://www.pheasantridge.com/_
(about 17
	>     miles from
	>     Woodburn)
	>     Pheasant Ridge Rv Park
	>     Address: 8275 SW Elligsen Rd, Wilsonville, OR 97070
	>     Phone: (503) 682-7829
	>     Directions:
	>     Take I-5 exit #286 toward N. WILSONVILLE/STAFFORD - go 0.2
	>     Turn on SW ELLIGSEN RD - go 0.5 mi
	>     Open at 9, $1 per hour. If booked up will let you plug
into 120V
	>     outlets if 30A/50A not available.
	>     Hope this helps,
	>         Rick Barnes
	>         -----Original Message-----
	>         *From:* oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org
	>         [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] *On Behalf Of
	>         *Theoldcars at aol.com
	>         *Sent:* Friday, June 16, 2006 3:38 PM
	>         *To:* oeva-list at oeva.org
	>         *Subject:* [Oeva-list] Re: charging
	>         Anyone know of a charging location with 220 and a 30
amp or
	>         larger circuit breaker between Wilsonville and Salem
on or near I-5?
	>         Don


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