From patrick0101 at gmail.com  Thu Jan  1 13:33:14 2009
From: patrick0101 at gmail.com (patrick0101 at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 13:33:14 -0800
Subject: [Oeva-list] Oregon governor looking at GPS-based mileage tax to
	fund roads
Message-ID: <8c28d7b50901011333j4f9d2f02i6ff600f7d48effcb@mail.gmail.com>

Oregon governor looking at GPS-based mileage tax to fund roads

by Donald Melanson, posted Dec 31st 2008 at 4:03PM
Electric cars and other fuel-efficient vehicles certainly have plenty going
for them, but all that reduction in fuel consumption also has the side
effect of reducing the money earned from gas taxes, which has prompted folks
like Oregon governor Ted Kulongoski to turn to some
alternative<http://www.engadget.com/2004/11/18/californias-new-dmv-director-wants-mileage-tax/>
solutions<http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/14/study-to-equip-cars-with-tracking-hardware-send-testers-faux-bi/>to
keep those funds rolling in. In the case of Oregon, Governor
Kulongoski
is proposing a mileage tax that would eventually replace the gas tax
altogether, and make use of GPS units to determine just how far each person
travels and bill them accordingly (Oregon is proposing a 1.2 cent per mile
tax)...

Full Article Here
*http://tinyurl.com/8hj6c2 *

Regards,
Pat
If you drive like there is no tomorrow, it may become self-fulfilling
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From bob at research13.com  Thu Jan  1 19:42:00 2009
From: bob at research13.com (bob at research13.com)
Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 03:42:00 +0000
Subject: [Oeva-list] Oregon governor looking at GPS-based mileage tax
 to	fund roads
Message-ID: <W652897340215021230867720@webmail12>

Does anybody recall any studies that suggest that a tax on fuel would lead to less fuel consuption and GPS systems would not work? It seems to me that is a logistical nightmare and pretty complicated to implement or even study the idea of rolling out a GPS system. I believe PUC diesel tax for trucks is chosen by governments because of it's simplicity in managing it. No electronic GPS system to malfunction, etc. Would people need a GPS for their muscle car in the garage too?

Since nearly nobody has an electric car, and many Portland households have 5 or more cars, doesn't it make sense to raise the costs of licensing and fuel taxes to reduce infrastructure costs and produce more revenue? I don't know the exact numbers but are there even a thousand plug in vehicles in Oregon? Since most vehicles on the road get less than 30mpg, seems like a gas tax is the way to go because it might also improve chances people would buy fuel efficient, greener cars.

I'm also a bit confused because electric cars wouldn't "fuel up" as mentioned in this article if they are charging at home, so how would the GPS mileage work then? Seems to me you tax the bad behavior ;buying carbon fuels is bad - how far you go isn't that relevant. Example: If I drive a 1968 Suburban that gets 3 mpg and has no emission controls, would I pay the same GPS tax as a Plug in Prius? 

In Thomas Friedman's "Flat Crowded" book he also talks about $9 gas in Denmark. By the way, Denmark is also the country supplying a third of all wind generation equipment, and Denmark has only 2% unemployment. We are nowhere near paying what gas is actually costing, which will reveal itself once the oil supply is again reduced and our pump prices go up. We need to remember fuel costs will go back up and as we import gas we export dollars out of Oregon and out of our country. Denmark is a small country and may not be a great example, but they are not importing from some of the same places we are because of their energy efficiency focus and higher priced gas. Additionally, a lot of the windmills in the Gorge are from Vestas - A Danish company, right? So we are paying for Denmark's wind development and going to tax positive vehicle choices. Hmm ... seems like GPS is a bit like paddling up the wrong revenue stream. 

15,000 miles is often used as an estimate for an adult driver. 
@15,000 miles per year that is $180 total revenue @1.2 cents per mile.
@15,000 miles per year and 30mpg with a 50cent per gallon tax that is $250/ year and is directly correlated to greenhouse gas emissions (and the DMV wouldn't manage it).

And Denmark's price of gas is also cheap if you look at some opinions. The real cost of a gallon of gas is estimate at between $5-$15 dollars by ICTA
www.icta.org/doc/Real%20Price%20of%20Gasoline.pdf 


-----Original Message-----
From: patrick0101 at gmail.com [mailto:patrick0101 at gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 1, 2009 01:33 PM
To: 'OEVA'
Subject: [Oeva-list] Oregon governor looking at GPS-based mileage tax to fund roads


Oregon governor looking at GPS-based mileage tax to fund roadsby Donald Melanson, posted Dec 31st 2008 at 4:03PM
Electric cars and other fuel-efficient vehicles certainly have plenty going for them, but all that reduction in fuel consumption also has the side effect of reducing the money earned from gas taxes, which has prompted folks like Oregon governor Ted Kulongoski to turn to some alternativesolutions to keep those funds rolling in. In the case of Oregon, Governor Kulongoski is proposing a mileage tax that would eventually replace the gas tax altogether, and make use of GPS units to determine just how far each person travels and bill them accordingly (Oregon is proposing a 1.2 cent per mile tax)... 

Full Article Here
http://tinyurl.com/8hj6c2

Regards, 
Pat
If you drive like there is no tomorrow, it may become self-fulfilling

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From richardturnock at comcast.net  Fri Jan  2 13:48:32 2009
From: richardturnock at comcast.net (Richard Turnock)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 13:48:32 -0800
Subject: [Oeva-list] Gas Tax
Message-ID: <0F718834293E4AA082C63278593962FC@RichardPC>

See the recent Thomas Friedman article: Win, Win, Win, Win, Win ...,
Published: December 27, 2008, NYTimes.

Raise the gas tax, raise it again, and again, and again.  Keep raising it
until we are independent of foreign oil.

Richard

Wanting an electric Mini Cooper

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From patrick0101 at gmail.com  Fri Jan  2 21:17:17 2009
From: patrick0101 at gmail.com (patrick0101 at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 21:17:17 -0800
Subject: [Oeva-list] What Does it Take to Turn Any Vehicle into an EV?
Message-ID: <8c28d7b50901022117s2d8c9c1cm4f4bbc15474159ad@mail.gmail.com>

What Does it Take to Turn Any Vehicle into an EV?
We Ask Seth Leitman, Author of "Build Your Own Electric Vehicle"

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/12/what_does_it_ta.php

Regards,
Pat
If you drive like there is no tomorrow, it may become self-fulfilling
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From tim_kutscha at yahoo.com  Sat Jan  3 08:43:56 2009
From: tim_kutscha at yahoo.com (Tim Kutscha)
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 08:43:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Oeva-list] Fw: Legislative proposals sent to Rep Riley re EVs
Message-ID: <128755.27475.qm@web110509.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hi All,

  Here's an e-mail I received from Philip Kollas regarding some of the legislative proposals that he made for the 2009 session.  If you have any thoughts or feedback for Philip, please contact him at pkollas at comcast.net.

Cheers,
Tim
OEVA Chair



----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Philip Kollas <pkollas at comcast.net>
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 8:24:12 PM
Subject: Legislative proposals sent to Rep Riley re EVs

Legislative proposals sent to Rep Riley re EVs Hi again, Tim,

We talked a couple of times by e-mail in early August re the OEVA and some upcoming events where we would be showing our EVs.  So, I wanted to send you my proposals for the 2009 legislative session and see what you (and any other OEVA folks) thought.  I?d be happy to hear from you.

Below is the text of what I have today sent to my rep in the Oregon House, Chuck Riley; I?ve talked with him in person in the past and have found him to be willing to listen and help on other matters.

Happy New Year,
Philip Kollas (Hillsboro ZAP driver)
============================


Hello again, Rep. Riley,

Congratulations on your win in the legislative race last month; I?m sure you?re eager to get on with the business of state government again.

Introduction and Proposals

Although some would wring their hands in this economic environment, I see an opportunity to re-make our way of doing things in Oregon, for both the short-term and the long-term good.  We can turn the economic downturn to our advantage while vastly improving our environmental standing as a green and innovative state.  And it?s all in keeping with Governor Kulongoski?s overall plan to bring electric vehicles (EVs) to Oregon in a big way.Here are my two proposals:


	1. Add the final crucial ingredient to the governor?s plan for building and selling EVs in Oregon:  design them here, so that the quality is unquestionable from start to finish.   This will be crucial, as you will see from the information below. 
	2. Eliminate the arbitrary speed limit for four-wheeled EVs (currently 30 mph, I believe), so that the average car buyer is willing to consider an EV in any future purchase.

Background

Based in part on environmental concerns and in part on the price of gas, last spring I researched the available EVs in this country and quickly narrowed down the list to two, one of which was out of sight for price ($36,000).  That left exactly one affordable type (about $13,000 new), offered by a California company that imports a Chinese-built EV.  Note that this import is a three-wheeler, technically a three-wheeled motorcycle, so as to avoid the 30-mph speed limit artificially imposed in Oregon on four-wheeled EVs.  Since the top speed listed in my owner?s manual is 40 mph, having a three-wheeler allows a theoretical one-third faster trip than does any four-wheeled EV.  This was important in my purchase decision.

I made arrangements with my employer, which is roughly 18 miles away by back roads, to recharge my EV on their dime while I?m at work, thus allowing me to have a fully charged battery pack when I head home in the middle of the night (I work swing shift).  So far, so good.

This worked fine until the battery pack started pooping out about five miles shy of my work site, requiring me to recharge for 30-45 minutes somewhere along the way?and show up late for work.  Not good.  Numerous calls and visits to the Portland dealer (with whom I have no complaint) disclosed that the onboard charger did not receive, from the manufacturer, the correct algorithm (think of software that tells the charger how long and how deep to charge the batteries) for this particular brand of batteries.  My EV wound up at the shop, getting new algorithm after new algorithm from the manufacturer, for more than five weeks this past autumn.

In addition, the windshield turns out to flare badly whenever the sun strikes it at low sun angles, such as in the late afternoon.  The dealer admitted that the quality of the glass supplied by the manufacturer was low.  This creates an unsafe situation during certain hours, but the manufacturer?s warranty does not cover such windshield replacement.

Rationale for the Proposals

Why do I mention these problems?  The quality of the Chinese import is just too low to be a serious contender for American consumers.  No one in his right mind would knowingly buy a rig with these defects, which were more design flaws than construction flaws.  Had U.S. individuals designed the rig, these flaws would not have been allowed (sorry, but we all know by now the problem with Chinese quality control:  it?s nonexistent).

If we control both the design and the construction of EVs here in the Northwest, we can guarantee a good product.  If we merely import Chinese-built EVs for the US market, we will quickly have no new EV drivers . . . and gasoline usage (and pollutants) will continue at present levels.  This is not good for consumers, the environment, or the economy.  My understanding is that Governor Kulongoski?s plan is to import some Chinese EVs and to build certain Nissan EVs in Oregon.

My proposal is that we both design and build EVs in Oregon, and that we eliminate the needless speed restriction that will otherwise kill any effort at  selling four-wheeled EVs.  This will allow a quality product and a favorable environment for the use of the new ?green? vehicles that the governor wants to see in Oregon.  EV speeds are already inherently limited by the battery pack and electric motor used in each type.  Most models I know of can hit only about 40 mph on the level anyway; they don?t need an arbitrary speed limit below that.  Consumers will not buy an electric vehicle, no matter how clean its energy source, if it can?t get them where they want to go in a reasonable time.

Summary; Specific Legislative Requests

In your role as vice-chair of the Workforce and Economic Development Committee, would you please introduce legislation to achieve the two proposals listed above (add vehicle design to the current push for building green cars; delete the 30-mph arbitrary speed limit for four-wheeled EVs).   I?m not sure how the bill for the first proposal should read; I will leave that to your discretion.  The second proposal should need only a bill eliminating the current speed limit specifically levied on four-wheeled EVs.  

I thank you for your time and consideration of these two matters.  If you have any questions or comments, do not hesitate to contact me.  I would be willing to testify regarding the proposed legislation at any hearings.

With respect and best wishes for the new year,

Philip Kollas
1179 SE Fir Grove Lp
Hillsboro OR  97123-8806

Home 503-681-2181 


      
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From tim_kutscha at yahoo.com  Sat Jan  3 09:03:42 2009
From: tim_kutscha at yahoo.com (Tim Kutscha)
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 09:03:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Oeva-list] Solar car coming to Portland
Message-ID: <602415.51142.qm@web110515.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hello OEVA folks,

   Here's an excellent opportunity to support a truly sustainable EV. 
Marcelo da Luz is driving a solar car across the country and coming to
Portland around the end of next week.  He needs a place to stay and
charge his vehicle (see attached photo) for a few days.  I would offer
to do it, but I'll be out of town next weekend and early the following
week (ugh, bad timing!).
     I'm sure Marcelo has some amazing stories about his travels.  The
video at www.xof1.com is great.  I have a bunch of photos that Marcelo
e-mailed me in case you'd like to see them.  I didn't attach them due
to the size restrictions with our e-mail handler.  Would someone please
be willing to support Marcelo in his efforts? 
Please contact Marcelo and CC me (tim_kutscha at yahoo.com) so I know that
this has been covered.

Thanks,
Tim Kutscha
OEVA Chair



----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Marcelo da Luz <mdaluz at xof1.com>
To: Tim Kutscha <tim_kutscha at yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, January 2, 2009 9:09:28 PM
Subject: Re: Solar car in Portland, OR

Hi Tim,

Nice to hear back from you.

Attached are photos of the tour, feel free to share it with others.

I
expect to arrive in Portland by the end of next week or early the
following week. The length of my stay in Portland will depend on how
much sunshine we get.  Considering this is not the best time of the
year to be in the area it may take a while but hope we'll get luck with
a few days of sunshine.

At the moment I have one confirmed volunteer to help drive the support vehicle. I'll know about the second early next week.

Any contacts or support you may be able to provide is appreciated.

Marcelo da Luz
The Power of One, solar car project
Ph. (416) 465 9459, Mobile (416) 834 0788
E-Mail: mdaluz at xof1.com
Website: www.xof1.com

"inspired by the sun, motivated by the environment"


      
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From pusa411 at gmail.com  Sat Jan  3 12:21:27 2009
From: pusa411 at gmail.com (DANIEL T CONWAY PREMIUM-USA)
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 04:21:27 +0800
Subject: [Oeva-list] Law reguarding "Limited Production autos"
Message-ID: <793086120901031221l493b27e3vc25d97a044a953e7@mail.gmail.com>

Hey guys..  does anyone know  the Law reguarding "Limited Production
autos"???

I know that the Ariel Atom is now being produced here in Oregon..
He must be working under the limited production rules..
This could be the way to produce EVs here in Oregon..

Thanks in advance for your incite......



THX..
            Daniel T Conway

Premium-USA
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From Theoldcars at aol.com  Sun Jan  4 01:19:31 2009
From: Theoldcars at aol.com (Theoldcars at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 04:19:31 EST
Subject: [Oeva-list] Legislative proposals
Message-ID: <d40.3291196d.3691d923@aol.com>

Philip
 
I read all of your proposal below. I agree there is a huge problem with  lack 
of quality control from China manufacturers. The answer is already  here and 
there is no need to import.
 
Why not just recycle all the failing ICE vehicles into EVs. Then you do not  
have to contend with trying to change the existing Federal laws limiting  
speeds on NEV's. You also would have vehicles that have been crash tested and  
already built with safety features. 
 
This would have many positive ramifications you brought up plus using an  
existing resource that is currently being wasted.. 
 
There are so many extra ICE vehicles not being used. You  can search 
Craigslist and find what seems to be an endless amount. It  is really astounding if 
you start counting how many are sitting in driveways or  yards. You can see they 
obviously have not been moved in months. Many of these  vehicles have 
expensive  ICE related repairs that the  owners do not want to invest their money in.
 
The 240 volt plug that is coming soon would open the door for a world of  
change.  Employing people here would help our economy and reduce the miles  
driven by ICE vehicles. 
 
As the demand increases the cost for the parts would go down.  Quality of the 
conversions would rapidly escalate and prices would drop  even further. It 
would not take long before the popular vehicles for conversions  started being 
sold. I would not be surprised to see companies like Napa or  CarQuest selling 
Edelbrock EV conversion kits.
 
How could government help make this happen? Access to electric is an  
absolute must. Tax credits for conversions would help. Rebates from the energy  trust 
or lottery funds would go a long way as well. 
 
Don 
 
 
 
In a message dated 1/3/2009 9:04:07 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
oeva-list-request at oeva.org writes:

Message:  3
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 08:43:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Tim Kutscha  <tim_kutscha at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Oeva-list] Fw: Legislative  proposals sent to Rep Riley re
EVs
To:  oeva-list at oeva.org
Cc: pkollas at comcast.net
Message-ID:  <128755.27475.qm at web110509.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type:  text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

Hi All,

Here's an  e-mail I received from Philip Kollas regarding some of the 
legislative  proposals that he made for the 2009 session.  If you have any thoughts 
or  feedback for Philip, please contact him at  pkollas at comcast.net.

Cheers,
Tim
OEVA Chair



-----  Forwarded Message ----
From: Philip Kollas  <pkollas at comcast.net>
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 8:24:12  PM
Subject: Legislative proposals sent to Rep Riley re  EVs

Legislative proposals sent to Rep Riley re EVs Hi again,  Tim,

We talked a couple of times by e-mail in early August re the OEVA  and some 
upcoming events where we would be showing our EVs.  So, I wanted  to send you 
my proposals for the 2009 legislative session and see what you  (and any other 
OEVA folks) thought.  I?d be happy to hear from  you.

Below is the text of what I have today sent to my rep in the  Oregon House, 
Chuck Riley; I?ve talked with him in person in the past and have  found him to 
be willing to listen and help on other matters.

Happy New  Year,
Philip Kollas (Hillsboro ZAP  driver)
============================


Hello again, Rep.  Riley,

Congratulations on your win in the legislative race last month;  I?m sure 
you?re eager to get on with the business of state government  again.

Introduction and Proposals

Although some would wring  their hands in this economic environment, I see an 
opportunity to re-make our  way of doing things in Oregon, for both the 
short-term and the long-term  good.  We can turn the economic downturn to our 
advantage while vastly  improving our environmental standing as a green and 
innovative state.   And it?s all in keeping with Governor Kulongoski?s overall plan 
to bring  electric vehicles (EVs) to Oregon in a big way.Here are my two  
proposals:


1. Add the final crucial ingredient to the  governor?s plan for building and 
selling EVs in Oregon:  design them  here, so that the quality is 
unquestionable from start to finish.    This will be crucial, as you will see from the 
information below. 
2. Eliminate the arbitrary speed limit for four-wheeled EVs (currently  30 
mph, I believe), so that the average car buyer is willing to consider an EV  in 
any future purchase.

Background

Based in part on  environmental concerns and in part on the price of gas, 
last spring I  researched the available EVs in this country and quickly narrowed 
down the  list to two, one of which was out of sight for price ($36,000).  
That  left exactly one affordable type (about $13,000 new), offered by a 
California  company that imports a Chinese-built EV.  Note that this import is a  
three-wheeler, technically a three-wheeled motorcycle, so as to avoid the  30-mph 
speed limit artificially imposed in Oregon on four-wheeled EVs.   Since the 
top speed listed in my owner?s manual is 40 mph, having a  three-wheeler allows 
a theoretical one-third faster trip than does any  four-wheeled EV.  This was 
important in my purchase decision.

I  made arrangements with my employer, which is roughly 18 miles away by back 
 roads, to recharge my EV on their dime while I?m at work, thus allowing me 
to  have a fully charged battery pack when I head home in the middle of the 
night  (I work swing shift).  So far, so good.

This worked fine until the  battery pack started pooping out about five miles 
shy of my work site,  requiring me to recharge for 30-45 minutes somewhere 
along the way?and show up  late for work.  Not good.  Numerous calls and visits 
to the Portland  dealer (with whom I have no complaint) disclosed that the 
onboard charger did  not receive, from the manufacturer, the correct algorithm 
(think of software  that tells the charger how long and how deep to charge the 
batteries) for this  particular brand of batteries.  My EV wound up at the 
shop, getting new  algorithm after new algorithm from the manufacturer, for more 
than five weeks  this past autumn.

In addition, the windshield turns out to flare badly  whenever the sun 
strikes it at low sun angles, such as in the late  afternoon.  The dealer admitted 
that the quality of the glass supplied by  the manufacturer was low.  This 
creates an unsafe situation during  certain hours, but the manufacturer?s warranty 
does not cover such windshield  replacement.

Rationale for the Proposals

Why do I mention these  problems?  The quality of the Chinese import is just 
too low to be a  serious contender for American consumers.  No one in his 
right mind would  knowingly buy a rig with these defects, which were more design 
flaws than  construction flaws.  Had U.S. individuals designed the rig, these 
flaws  would not have been allowed (sorry, but we all know by now the problem 
with  Chinese quality control:  it?s nonexistent).

If we control both  the design and the construction of EVs here in the 
Northwest, we can guarantee  a good product.  If we merely import Chinese-built EVs 
for the US market,  we will quickly have no new EV drivers . . . and gasoline 
usage (and  pollutants) will continue at present levels.  This is not good for 
 consumers, the environment, or the economy.  My understanding is that  
Governor Kulongoski?s plan is to import some Chinese EVs and to build certain  
Nissan EVs in Oregon.

My proposal is that we both design and build EVs  in Oregon, and that we 
eliminate the needless speed restriction that will  otherwise kill any effort at  
selling four-wheeled EVs.  This will  allow a quality product and a favorable 
environment for the use of the new  ?green? vehicles that the governor wants 
to see in Oregon.  EV speeds are  already inherently limited by the battery 
pack and electric motor used in each  type.  Most models I know of can hit only 
about 40 mph on the level  anyway; they don?t need an arbitrary speed limit 
below that.  Consumers  will not buy an electric vehicle, no matter how clean its 
energy source, if it  can?t get them where they want to go in a reasonable 
time.

Summary;  Specific Legislative Requests

In your role as vice-chair of the  Workforce and Economic Development 
Committee, would you please introduce  legislation to achieve the two proposals 
listed above (add vehicle design to  the current push for building green cars; 
delete the 30-mph arbitrary speed  limit for four-wheeled EVs).   I?m not sure how 
the bill for the  first proposal should read; I will leave that to your 
discretion.  The  second proposal should need only a bill eliminating the current 
speed limit  specifically levied on four-wheeled EVs.  

I thank you for your  time and consideration of these two matters.  If you 
have any questions  or comments, do not hesitate to contact me.  I would be 
willing to  testify regarding the proposed legislation at any hearings.

With  respect and best wishes for the new year,

Philip Kollas
1179 SE Fir  Grove Lp
Hillsboro OR  97123-8806

Home 503-681-2181 

**************New year...new news.  Be the first to know what is making 
headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026)
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From cje at hevanet.com  Sun Jan  4 06:32:09 2009
From: cje at hevanet.com (cje at hevanet.com)
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 14:32:09 GMT
Subject: [Oeva-list] Legislative proposals
Message-ID: <200901041432.n04EW9Rw033756@broadway.hevanet.com>

I'm not sure there's anything Oregon can do about the 30mph speed limit 
issue. Isn't that a federal rule? 

Curt
Lurkin'


From garry at europa.com  Sun Jan  4 09:22:40 2009
From: garry at europa.com (garry painter)
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 09:22:40 -0800
Subject: [Oeva-list] Legislative proposals
In-Reply-To: <200901041432.n04EW9Rw033756@broadway.hevanet.com>
References: <200901041432.n04EW9Rw033756@broadway.hevanet.com>
Message-ID: <6C0E9701-5ED8-4BAC-9E70-2EC619CF6F9F@europa.com>

> I'm not sure there's anything Oregon can do about the 30mph speed  
> limit
> issue. Isn't that a federal rule?
>
> Curt


Well, it isn't like Oregon doesn't have a reputation for breaking  
Federal laws when deemed necessary.

See: Physician assisted suicide and Medical marijuana.

I like Mr. Kollas's idea of having cars built in Oregon.
I was rolling that around in my own head after I heard of the big 3's  
imminent demise. I thought that most every state should have their  
own car manufacturers.
I wouldn't necessarily start out with everyone making the entire  
vehicle.
I would use the Tesla model, and use a chassis built by a company  
already set up for such a task.
Preferably a Body-on-frame design rather than a unibody/monocoque base.
Detroit has the infrastructure for such a task and could supply  
chassis for car manufacturers much more cheaply.
I imagine the startup cost's would be enormous.

Garry

On Jan 4, 2009, at 2:32 PM, cje at hevanet.com wrote:

> I'm not sure there's anything Oregon can do about the 30mph speed  
> limit
> issue. Isn't that a federal rule?
>
> Curt
> Lurkin'
>
> _______________________________________________
> Oeva-list mailing list
> Oeva-list at oeva.org
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
>


From jrab at e-m-w.com  Sun Jan  4 12:29:11 2009
From: jrab at e-m-w.com (John RA Benson)
Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 12:29:11 -0800
Subject: [Oeva-list] Legislative proposals
In-Reply-To: <200901041432.n04EW9Rw033756@broadway.hevanet.com>
Message-ID: <C5865C17.1AE18%jrab@e-m-w.com>

The 30 mph rule is about NEV's - vehicles like golf carts that don't pass or
need to pass crash tests. Nobody in their right mind would want to drive a
golf cart at 60 on the freeway. If a vehicle is built that an pass crash
tests, it can go as fast as it can. Since motorcycles (meaning 3 wheelers)
don't need to pass crash tests, they aren't speed limited. That is why fast
3 wheeled EV's like the Sparrow are around, and fast 4 production wheelers
aren't - crash testing is expensive! That said, I'd take my chances in a
Sparrow over a motorcycle any day.

Take a car that HAS been crash tested and make it as fast as you want!

Like Don said, recycle those ICE into EV's and we can reduce the ICE impact
on landfills, take a polluter off the road and reduce consumerism with the
big auto manufacturers. Those are all Really Good Things. And we can do it
already. Tax incentives for converters and consumers that do conversions
would be show the state is interested in really promoting green values and
benefit a broader spectrum of the population, not just a few manufacturers.

Cheers
JRAB 


On 1/4/09 6:32 AM, "cje at hevanet.com" <cje at hevanet.com> wrote:

> I'm not sure there's anything Oregon can do about the 30mph speed limit
> issue. Isn't that a federal rule?
> 
> Curt
> Lurkin'
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Oeva-list mailing list
> Oeva-list at oeva.org
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list



From alan at batie.org  Sun Jan  4 12:35:54 2009
From: alan at batie.org (Alan Batie)
Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 12:35:54 -0800
Subject: [Oeva-list] Legislative proposals
In-Reply-To: <200901041432.n04EW9Rw033756@broadway.hevanet.com>
References: <200901041432.n04EW9Rw033756@broadway.hevanet.com>
Message-ID: <49611DAA.8090604@batie.org>

cje at hevanet.com wrote:
> I'm not sure there's anything Oregon can do about the 30mph speed limit 
> issue. Isn't that a federal rule? 

I believe it is not an ev specific rule, but rather a limit on the speed 
of vehicles that don't have to meet crash safety rules (airbags, 5mph 
bumpers, etc).  I think the NEV category is simply an ev specific 
subgroup, but as there are a large number of 4 wheeled evs that aren't 
in it, it's annoying to see someone giving the impression that all evs 
are low speed.  That said, I would like to see that limit raised to 
45mph, which would make them considerably more practical without 
substantially endangering anyone.  But you're right, it is federal.  On 
the other hand, I believe Oregon could legalize them on non-federal 
highways, though it might jeopardize federal subsidies.  The new 
administration may be amenable to such a change though...
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From nickgaladay at msn.com  Sun Jan  4 21:09:25 2009
From: nickgaladay at msn.com (Nick Galaday)
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 21:09:25 -0800
Subject: [Oeva-list] Legislative proposals
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6084.1231089765.935.oeva-list@oeva.org>
References: <mailman.6084.1231089765.935.oeva-list@oeva.org>
Message-ID: <BAY113-DAV137AE281D4A1CE04F748C6BDE10@phx.gbl>

Made in Oregon?  How's this idea?  There are quite a number of worthy
foreign made cars that are not currently marketed in the US.  Most speak
some version of Latin such as Renault, Citroen, Alfa-Romeo or a couple of
Spanish models.  It seems to me the fastest, cheapest access to
manufacturing an EV here would be to import "gliders" (sans factory ICE)
under a special fleet purchase agreement and electrify them here.  I'm told
any design would have to be safety tested, requiring a large number of
prototypes, but why reinvent the entire wheel?  Venture capital anyone?

Nick Galaday

___Energy Conservation
             .....saves more than energy!



From tony at notebene.net  Mon Jan  5 10:21:51 2009
From: tony at notebene.net (Tony McCormick)
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 10:21:51 -0800
Subject: [Oeva-list] Legislative proposals
In-Reply-To: <BAY113-DAV137AE281D4A1CE04F748C6BDE10@phx.gbl>
References: <mailman.6084.1231089765.935.oeva-list@oeva.org>
	<BAY113-DAV137AE281D4A1CE04F748C6BDE10@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <49624FBF.3050606@notebene.net>

US Electric did that in 1980 with the Renault LeCar ...  which is what I 
started with.  Ie: my "conversion" was from 48volt SCR based to 120 Volt 
PWM based... never saw an ICE engine,
--Tony

Nick Galaday wrote:
> Made in Oregon?  How's this idea?  There are quite a number of worthy
> foreign made cars that are not currently marketed in the US.  Most speak
> some version of Latin such as Renault, Citroen, Alfa-Romeo or a couple of
> Spanish models.  It seems to me the fastest, cheapest access to
> manufacturing an EV here would be to import "gliders" (sans factory ICE)
> under a special fleet purchase agreement and electrify them here.  I'm told
> any design would have to be safety tested, requiring a large number of
> prototypes, but why reinvent the entire wheel?  Venture capital anyone?
>
> Nick Galaday
>
> ___Energy Conservation
>              .....saves more than energy!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Oeva-list mailing list
> Oeva-list at oeva.org
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
>
>
>   

From pkollas at comcast.net  Tue Jan  6 11:47:45 2009
From: pkollas at comcast.net (Philip Kollas)
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 11:47:45 -0800
Subject: [Oeva-list] Speed limits and my legislative proposals
In-Reply-To: <mailman.21.1231185606.96772.oeva-list@oeva.org>
Message-ID: <C588F561.B32%pkollas@comcast.net>

Thanks to all for the lively commentary on my legislative proposals.  The
issue of whether Oregon can modify the current arbitrary speed limit on EVs
is not as sinister as it might seem to some?this is not the case of assisted
suicide or anything like that.

I did some checking in the Oregon Revised Statutes and came up empty; there
appears to be no state statute specifically limiting EV speeds.  However,
somewhere it must be possible for each state to allow certain EV speeds, as
I found the following FAQ note on an electric-vehicle site:

> Q.  Can I really drive an electric vehicle on the streets?
> A.  The Federal Government has ruled that neighborhood electric vehicles (NEVs
> or Low Speed Vehicles), that meet their manufacturing standards can be
> licensed and legally driven on roads of posted speeds of 25 mph or less.
> Because of a progressive government in Washington State, it has been
> determined that these are perfectly safe at speeds to 35 mph.
> 
Note that this limit of 25 mph (35 in Wash.) refers only to NEVs.  I have
yet to stumble across any federal definition of NEV, so I?ll keep checking.
The point here is, if Washington state was able to upward-revise the NEV
speed limit, it must be possible for Oregon to do likewise.  That?s what I
asked my state rep to push for, among other things.

And yes, I?ll be sure to push for good safety standards in electric
vehicles, so fear not.

Cheers,
Philip Kollas
===========


On 1/5/09 12:00 PM, "oeva-list-request at oeva.org"
<oeva-list-request at oeva.org> wrote:

> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: Legislative proposals (John RA Benson)
>    2. Re: Legislative proposals (Alan Batie)
>    3. Re: Legislative proposals (Nick Galaday)
>    4. Re: Legislative proposals (Tony McCormick)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 12:29:11 -0800
> From: John RA Benson <jrab at e-m-w.com>
> Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Legislative proposals
> To: Oregon EV <oeva-list at oeva.org>
> Message-ID: <C5865C17.1AE18%jrab at e-m-w.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> 
> The 30 mph rule is about NEV's - vehicles like golf carts that don't pass or
> need to pass crash tests. Nobody in their right mind would want to drive a
> golf cart at 60 on the freeway. If a vehicle is built that an pass crash
> tests, it can go as fast as it can. Since motorcycles (meaning 3 wheelers)
> don't need to pass crash tests, they aren't speed limited. That is why fast
> 3 wheeled EV's like the Sparrow are around, and fast 4 production wheelers
> aren't - crash testing is expensive! That said, I'd take my chances in a
> Sparrow over a motorcycle any day.
> 
> Take a car that HAS been crash tested and make it as fast as you want!
> 
> Like Don said, recycle those ICE into EV's and we can reduce the ICE impact
> on landfills, take a polluter off the road and reduce consumerism with the
> big auto manufacturers. Those are all Really Good Things. And we can do it
> already. Tax incentives for converters and consumers that do conversions
> would be show the state is interested in really promoting green values and
> benefit a broader spectrum of the population, not just a few manufacturers.
> 
> Cheers
> JRAB 
> 
> 
> On 1/4/09 6:32 AM, "cje at hevanet.com" <cje at hevanet.com> wrote:
> 
>> I'm not sure there's anything Oregon can do about the 30mph speed limit
>> issue. Isn't that a federal rule?
>> 
>> Curt
>> Lurkin'
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Oeva-list mailing list
>> Oeva-list at oeva.org
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 12:35:54 -0800
> From: Alan Batie <alan at batie.org>
> Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Legislative proposals
> To: oeva-list at oeva.org
> Message-ID: <49611DAA.8090604 at batie.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> cje at hevanet.com wrote:
>> I'm not sure there's anything Oregon can do about the 30mph speed limit
>> issue. Isn't that a federal rule?
> 
> I believe it is not an ev specific rule, but rather a limit on the speed
> of vehicles that don't have to meet crash safety rules (airbags, 5mph
> bumpers, etc).  I think the NEV category is simply an ev specific
> subgroup, but as there are a large number of 4 wheeled evs that aren't
> in it, it's annoying to see someone giving the impression that all evs
> are low speed.  That said, I would like to see that limit raised to
> 45mph, which would make them considerably more practical without
> substantially endangering anyone.  But you're right, it is federal.  On
> the other hand, I believe Oregon could legalize them on non-federal
> highways, though it might jeopardize federal subsidies.  The new
> administration may be amenable to such a change though...
> -------------- next part --------------
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 21:09:25 -0800
> From: "Nick Galaday" <nickgaladay at msn.com>
> Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Legislative proposals
> To: <oeva-list at oeva.org>
> Message-ID: <BAY113-DAV137AE281D4A1CE04F748C6BDE10 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Made in Oregon?  How's this idea?  There are quite a number of worthy
> foreign made cars that are not currently marketed in the US.  Most speak
> some version of Latin such as Renault, Citroen, Alfa-Romeo or a couple of
> Spanish models.  It seems to me the fastest, cheapest access to
> manufacturing an EV here would be to import "gliders" (sans factory ICE)
> under a special fleet purchase agreement and electrify them here.  I'm told
> any design would have to be safety tested, requiring a large number of
> prototypes, but why reinvent the entire wheel?  Venture capital anyone?
> 
> Nick Galaday
> 
> ___Energy Conservation
>              .....saves more than energy!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 10:21:51 -0800
> From: Tony McCormick <tony at notebene.net>
> Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Legislative proposals
> To: OEVA <oeva-list at oeva.org>
> Message-ID: <49624FBF.3050606 at notebene.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> US Electric did that in 1980 with the Renault LeCar ...  which is what I
> started with.  Ie: my "conversion" was from 48volt SCR based to 120 Volt
> PWM based... never saw an ICE engine,
> --Tony
> 
> Nick Galaday wrote:
>> Made in Oregon?  How's this idea?  There are quite a number of worthy
>> foreign made cars that are not currently marketed in the US.  Most speak
>> some version of Latin such as Renault, Citroen, Alfa-Romeo or a couple of
>> Spanish models.  It seems to me the fastest, cheapest access to
>> manufacturing an EV here would be to import "gliders" (sans factory ICE)
>> under a special fleet purchase agreement and electrify them here.  I'm told
>> any design would have to be safety tested, requiring a large number of
>> prototypes, but why reinvent the entire wheel?  Venture capital anyone?
>> 
>> Nick Galaday
>> 
>> ___Energy Conservation
>>              .....saves more than energy!
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Oeva-list mailing list
>> Oeva-list at oeva.org
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
>> 
>> 
>>   
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Oeva-list mailing list
> Oeva-list at oeva.org
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
> 
> 
> End of Oeva-list Digest, Vol 63, Issue 5
> ****************************************

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From bob at research13.com  Tue Jan  6 11:59:43 2009
From: bob at research13.com (bob at research13.com)
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 19:59:43 +0000
Subject: [Oeva-list] Speed limits and my legislative proposals
Message-ID: <W719033108076121231271983@webmail13>

For those interested in jotting a note or phoning to your Oregon legislators (still no Merkley website I'm familiar with):
Senator Ron Wyden (202)224-5244 http://wyden.senate.govSenator-Elect Jeff Merkley (503)274-4439 (campaign office) Congressman David Wu (D-OR1) (202)225-0855 http://www.house.gov/wuCongressman Greg Walden (R-OR2) (202)225-6730 http://www.house.gov/waldenCongressman Earl Blumenauer (D-OR3) (202)225-4811 http://blumenauer.house.govCongressman Peter DeFazio (D-OR4) (202)225-6416 http://www.house.gov/defazioCongressman-Elect Kurt Schrader (D-OR5) (503)723-6174 (campaign office) 


-----Original Message-----
From: Philip Kollas [mailto:pkollas at comcast.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2009 11:47 AM
To: oeva-list at oeva.org
Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Speed limits and my legislative proposals

Thanks to all for the lively commentary on my legislative proposals. The issue of whether Oregon can modify the current arbitrary speed limit on EVs is not as sinister as it might seem to some?this is not the case of assisted suicide or anything like that.

I did some checking in the Oregon Revised Statutes and came up empty; there appears to be no state statute specifically limiting EV speeds. However, somewhere it must be possible for each state to allow certain EV speeds, as I found the following FAQ note on an electric-vehicle site:

Q. Can I really drive an electric vehicle on the streets?
A. The Federal Government has ruled that neighborhood electric vehicles (NEVs or Low Speed Vehicles), that meet their manufacturing standards can be licensed and legally driven on roads of posted speeds of 25 mph or less. Because of a progressive government in Washington State, it has been determined that these are perfectly safe at speeds to 35 mph.

Note that this limit of 25 mph (35 in Wash.) refers only to NEVs. I have yet to stumble across any federal definition of NEV, so I?ll keep checking. The point here is, if Washington state was able to upward-revise the NEV speed limit, it must be possible for Oregon to do likewise. That?s what I asked my state rep to push for, among other things.

And yes, I?ll be sure to push for good safety standards in electric vehicles, so fear not.

Cheers,
Philip Kollas
===========


On 1/5/09 12:00 PM, "oeva-list-request at oeva.org" <oeva-list-request at oeva.org> wrote:

> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
> 1. Re: Legislative proposals (John RA Benson)
> 2. Re: Legislative proposals (Alan Batie)
> 3. Re: Legislative proposals (Nick Galaday)
> 4. Re: Legislative proposals (Tony McCormick)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 12:29:11 -0800
> From: John RA Benson <jrab at e-m-w.com>
> Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Legislative proposals
> To: Oregon EV <oeva-list at oeva.org>
> Message-ID: <C5865C17.1AE18%jrab at e-m-w.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> 
> The 30 mph rule is about NEV's - vehicles like golf carts that don't pass or
> need to pass crash tests. Nobody in their right mind would want to drive a
> golf cart at 60 on the freeway. If a vehicle is built that an pass crash
> tests, it can go as fast as it can. Since motorcycles (meaning 3 wheelers)
> don't need to pass crash tests, they aren't speed limited. That is why fast
> 3 wheeled EV's like the Sparrow are around, and fast 4 production wheelers
> aren't - crash testing is expensive! That said, I'd take my chances in a
> Sparrow over a motorcycle any day.
> 
> Take a car that HAS been crash tested and make it as fast as you want!
> 
> Like Don said, recycle those ICE into EV's and we can reduce the ICE impact
> on landfills, take a polluter off the road and reduce consumerism with the
> big auto manufacturers. Those are all Really Good Things. And we can do it
> already. Tax incentives for converters and consumers that do conversions
> would be show the state is interested in really promoting green values and
> benefit a broader spectrum of the population, not just a few manufacturers.
> 
> Cheers
> JRAB 
> 
> 
> On 1/4/09 6:32 AM, "cje at hevanet.com" <cje at hevanet.com> wrote:
> 
>> I'm not sure there's anything Oregon can do about the 30mph speed limit
>> issue. Isn't that a federal rule?
>> 
>> Curt
>> Lurkin'
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Oeva-list mailing list
>> Oeva-list at oeva.org
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 12:35:54 -0800
> From: Alan Batie <alan at batie.org>
> Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Legislative proposals
> To: oeva-list at oeva.org
> Message-ID: <49611DAA.8090604 at batie.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> cje at hevanet.com wrote:
>> I'm not sure there's anything Oregon can do about the 30mph speed limit 
>> issue. Isn't that a federal rule? 
> 
> I believe it is not an ev specific rule, but rather a limit on the speed 
> of vehicles that don't have to meet crash safety rules (airbags, 5mph 
> bumpers, etc). I think the NEV category is simply an ev specific 
> subgroup, but as there are a large number of 4 wheeled evs that aren't 
> in it, it's annoying to see someone giving the impression that all evs 
> are low speed. That said, I would like to see that limit raised to 
> 45mph, which would make them considerably more practical without 
> substantially endangering anyone. But you're right, it is federal. On 
> the other hand, I believe Oregon could legalize them on non-federal 
> highways, though it might jeopardize federal subsidies. The new 
> administration may be amenable to such a change though...
> -------------- next part --------------
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 21:09:25 -0800
> From: "Nick Galaday" <nickgaladay at msn.com>
> Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Legislative proposals
> To: <oeva-list at oeva.org>
> Message-ID: <BAY113-DAV137AE281D4A1CE04F748C6BDE10 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Made in Oregon? How's this idea? There are quite a number of worthy
> foreign made cars that are not currently marketed in the US. Most speak
> some version of Latin such as Renault, Citroen, Alfa-Romeo or a couple of
> Spanish models. It seems to me the fastest, cheapest access to
> manufacturing an EV here would be to import "gliders" (sans factory ICE)
> under a special fleet purchase agreement and electrify them here. I'm told
> any design would have to be safety tested, requiring a large number of
> prototypes, but why reinvent the entire wheel? Venture capital anyone?
> 
> Nick Galaday
> 
> ___Energy Conservation
> .....saves more than energy!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 10:21:51 -0800
> From: Tony McCormick <tony at notebene.net>
> Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Legislative proposals
> To: OEVA <oeva-list at oeva.org>
> Message-ID: <49624FBF.3050606 at notebene.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> US Electric did that in 1980 with the Renault LeCar ... which is what I 
> started with. Ie: my "conversion" was from 48volt SCR based to 120 Volt 
> PWM based... never saw an ICE engine,
> --Tony
> 
> Nick Galaday wrote:
>> Made in Oregon? How's this idea? There are quite a number of worthy
>> foreign made cars that are not currently marketed in the US. Most speak
>> some version of Latin such as Renault, Citroen, Alfa-Romeo or a couple of
>> Spanish models. It seems to me the fastest, cheapest access to
>> manufacturing an EV here would be to import "gliders" (sans factory ICE)
>> under a special fleet purchase agreement and electrify them here. I'm told
>> any design would have to be safety tested, requiring a large number of
>> prototypes, but why reinvent the entire wheel? Venture capital anyone?
>> 
>> Nick Galaday
>> 
>> ___Energy Conservation
>> .....saves more than energy!
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Oeva-list mailing list
>> Oeva-list at oeva.org
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Oeva-list mailing list
> Oeva-list at oeva.org
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
> 
> 
> End of Oeva-list Digest, Vol 63, Issue 5
> ****************************************

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From Wendy.Marshall at ci.gresham.or.us  Tue Jan  6 12:18:51 2009
From: Wendy.Marshall at ci.gresham.or.us (Marshall, Wendy)
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 12:18:51 -0800
Subject: [Oeva-list] FW: Consumer Reports February 2009
Message-ID: <A1EB9DEC87304E44B702485E523D65EC04E29BD0@DOG.gresham.gov>

Happy New Year EVeryone!

Consumers Union had a Prius converted and covered it in February 2009
issue (sorry, the scanned image of the article is too big to attach).
They also wrote about it on their blog:
http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2008/09/prius-plug-in.html?resultP
ageIndex=1&resultIndex=1&searchTerm=prius%20hybrid

I found it interesting the conversion was done at a Toyota dealership.

I think they could have painted a prettier picture of EVs while still
maintaining their objectivity.  They didn't mention charging stations or
the fact that any old outlet will do.  They neglected to mention wind
and solar electricity production.  And they gave no references for
readers who may want to move forward despite the drawbacks.

Wendy
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From america at worldverge.com  Tue Jan  6 17:42:11 2009
From: america at worldverge.com (America)
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 17:42:11 -0800
Subject: [Oeva-list] Speed limits and my legislative proposals
References: <C588F561.B32%pkollas@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <93E01E6230FD4FE887F98327BD5F5386@DT>

Re:  Speed limits and my legislative proposalsNev's can go 25 mph in a 35 mph zone.  State rep out of Salem plans to change it to 40 in a 45 next session.

Dave

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Philip Kollas 
  To: oeva-list at oeva.org 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:47 AM
  Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Speed limits and my legislative proposals


  Thanks to all for the lively commentary on my legislative proposals.  The issue of whether Oregon can modify the current arbitrary speed limit on EVs is not as sinister as it might seem to some-this is not the case of assisted suicide or anything like that.

  I did some checking in the Oregon Revised Statutes and came up empty; there appears to be no state statute specifically limiting EV speeds.  However, somewhere it must be possible for each state to allow certain EV speeds, as I found the following FAQ note on an electric-vehicle site:


    Q.  Can I really drive an electric vehicle on the streets?
    A.  The Federal Government has ruled that neighborhood electric vehicles (NEVs or Low Speed Vehicles), that meet their manufacturing standards can be licensed and legally driven on roads of posted speeds of 25 mph or less. Because of a progressive government in Washington State, it has been determined that these are perfectly safe at speeds to 35 mph.


  Note that this limit of 25 mph (35 in Wash.) refers only to NEVs.  I have yet to stumble across any federal definition of NEV, so I'll keep checking.  The point here is, if Washington state was able to upward-revise the NEV speed limit, it must be possible for Oregon to do likewise.  That's what I asked my state rep to push for, among other things.

  And yes, I'll be sure to push for good safety standards in electric vehicles, so fear not.

  Cheers,
  Philip Kollas
  ===========


  On 1/5/09 12:00 PM, "oeva-list-request at oeva.org" <oeva-list-request at oeva.org> wrote:

  > 
  > 
  > Today's Topics:
  > 
  >    1. Re: Legislative proposals (John RA Benson)
  >    2. Re: Legislative proposals (Alan Batie)
  >    3. Re: Legislative proposals (Nick Galaday)
  >    4. Re: Legislative proposals (Tony McCormick)
  > 
  > 
  > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
  > 
  > Message: 1
  > Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 12:29:11 -0800
  > From: John RA Benson <jrab at e-m-w.com>
  > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Legislative proposals
  > To: Oregon EV <oeva-list at oeva.org>
  > Message-ID: <C5865C17.1AE18%jrab at e-m-w.com>
  > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
  > 
  > The 30 mph rule is about NEV's - vehicles like golf carts that don't pass or
  > need to pass crash tests. Nobody in their right mind would want to drive a
  > golf cart at 60 on the freeway. If a vehicle is built that an pass crash
  > tests, it can go as fast as it can. Since motorcycles (meaning 3 wheelers)
  > don't need to pass crash tests, they aren't speed limited. That is why fast
  > 3 wheeled EV's like the Sparrow are around, and fast 4 production wheelers
  > aren't - crash testing is expensive! That said, I'd take my chances in a
  > Sparrow over a motorcycle any day.
  > 
  > Take a car that HAS been crash tested and make it as fast as you want!
  > 
  > Like Don said, recycle those ICE into EV's and we can reduce the ICE impact
  > on landfills, take a polluter off the road and reduce consumerism with the
  > big auto manufacturers. Those are all Really Good Things. And we can do it
  > already. Tax incentives for converters and consumers that do conversions
  > would be show the state is interested in really promoting green values and
  > benefit a broader spectrum of the population, not just a few manufacturers.
  > 
  > Cheers
  > JRAB 
  > 
  > 
  > On 1/4/09 6:32 AM, "cje at hevanet.com" <cje at hevanet.com> wrote:
  > 
  >> I'm not sure there's anything Oregon can do about the 30mph speed limit
  >> issue. Isn't that a federal rule?
  >> 
  >> Curt
  >> Lurkin'
  >> 
  >> _______________________________________________
  >> Oeva-list mailing list
  >> Oeva-list at oeva.org
  >> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > ------------------------------
  > 
  > Message: 2
  > Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 12:35:54 -0800
  > From: Alan Batie <alan at batie.org>
  > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Legislative proposals
  > To: oeva-list at oeva.org
  > Message-ID: <49611DAA.8090604 at batie.org>
  > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
  > 
  > cje at hevanet.com wrote:
  >> I'm not sure there's anything Oregon can do about the 30mph speed limit 
  >> issue. Isn't that a federal rule? 
  > 
  > I believe it is not an ev specific rule, but rather a limit on the speed 
  > of vehicles that don't have to meet crash safety rules (airbags, 5mph 
  > bumpers, etc).  I think the NEV category is simply an ev specific 
  > subgroup, but as there are a large number of 4 wheeled evs that aren't 
  > in it, it's annoying to see someone giving the impression that all evs 
  > are low speed.  That said, I would like to see that limit raised to 
  > 45mph, which would make them considerably more practical without 
  > substantially endangering anyone.  But you're right, it is federal.  On 
  > the other hand, I believe Oregon could legalize them on non-federal 
  > highways, though it might jeopardize federal subsidies.  The new 
  > administration may be amenable to such a change though...
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  > 
  > ------------------------------
  > 
  > Message: 3
  > Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 21:09:25 -0800
  > From: "Nick Galaday" <nickgaladay at msn.com>
  > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Legislative proposals
  > To: <oeva-list at oeva.org>
  > Message-ID: <BAY113-DAV137AE281D4A1CE04F748C6BDE10 at phx.gbl>
  > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
  > 
  > Made in Oregon?  How's this idea?  There are quite a number of worthy
  > foreign made cars that are not currently marketed in the US.  Most speak
  > some version of Latin such as Renault, Citroen, Alfa-Romeo or a couple of
  > Spanish models.  It seems to me the fastest, cheapest access to
  > manufacturing an EV here would be to import "gliders" (sans factory ICE)
  > under a special fleet purchase agreement and electrify them here.  I'm told
  > any design would have to be safety tested, requiring a large number of
  > prototypes, but why reinvent the entire wheel?  Venture capital anyone?
  > 
  > Nick Galaday
  > 
  > ___Energy Conservation
  >              .....saves more than energy!
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > ------------------------------
  > 
  > Message: 4
  > Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 10:21:51 -0800
  > From: Tony McCormick <tony at notebene.net>
  > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Legislative proposals
  > To: OEVA <oeva-list at oeva.org>
  > Message-ID: <49624FBF.3050606 at notebene.net>
  > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
  > 
  > US Electric did that in 1980 with the Renault LeCar ...  which is what I 
  > started with.  Ie: my "conversion" was from 48volt SCR based to 120 Volt 
  > PWM based... never saw an ICE engine,
  > --Tony
  > 
  > Nick Galaday wrote:
  >> Made in Oregon?  How's this idea?  There are quite a number of worthy
  >> foreign made cars that are not currently marketed in the US.  Most speak
  >> some version of Latin such as Renault, Citroen, Alfa-Romeo or a couple of
  >> Spanish models.  It seems to me the fastest, cheapest access to
  >> manufacturing an EV here would be to import "gliders" (sans factory ICE)
  >> under a special fleet purchase agreement and electrify them here.  I'm told
  >> any design would have to be safety tested, requiring a large number of
  >> prototypes, but why reinvent the entire wheel?  Venture capital anyone?
  >> 
  >> Nick Galaday
  >> 
  >> ___Energy Conservation
  >>              .....saves more than energy!
  >> 
  >> 
  >> _______________________________________________
  >> Oeva-list mailing list
  >> Oeva-list at oeva.org
  >> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
  >> 
  >> 
  >>   
  > 
  > 
  > ------------------------------
  > 
  > _______________________________________________
  > Oeva-list mailing list
  > Oeva-list at oeva.org
  > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
  > 
  > 
  > End of Oeva-list Digest, Vol 63, Issue 5
  > ****************************************



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From barnes.rick at verizon.net  Tue Jan  6 18:12:13 2009
From: barnes.rick at verizon.net (Rick Barnes)
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 18:12:13 -0800
Subject: [Oeva-list] Speed limits and my legislative proposals
In-Reply-To: <C588F561.B32%pkollas@comcast.net>
References: <mailman.21.1231185606.96772.oeva-list@oeva.org>
	<C588F561.B32%pkollas@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <001801c9706d$5b1bbb20$11533160$@rick@verizon.net>

I drove low speed for several years, and I think it is a mistake to speed
modify and drive these vehicles faster than 25, and it is a mistake to drive
them on 35 mph streets (even though this is currently allowed). I would like
to see a federal vehicle class change, not state changes. A better choice is
a NHTSA safety tested vehicle which will go 40 and be limited to 35 MPH
streets
. and limit existing 25 MPH low speed vehicles designed under the
current standard to 25 MPH streets. Current rules are bad 25 on 35 MPH
streets, want to get killed? And you may not drive a low speed vehicle in
the bike lane even for a minute to let cars pass per ORS statutes. I plan to
oppose any legislation to raise the speed limit for these vehicles.

 

You need to look again at the Oregon Statutes. There are ORS rules for Low
Speed Vehicles. (need to search for ?low-speed?)

811.512 Unlawfully operating low-speed vehicle on highway; penalty. (1) A
person commits the offense of unlawfully operating a low-speed vehicle on a
highway if the person operates a low-speed vehicle on a highway that has a
speed limit or posted speed of more than 35 miles per hour.

      (2) Notwithstanding subsection (1) of this section, a city or county
may adopt an ordinance allowing operation of low-speed vehicles on city
streets or county roads that have speed limits or posted speeds of more than
35 miles per hour.

      (3) The offense described in this section, unlawfully operating a
low-speed vehicle on a highway, is a Class B traffic violation. [2001 c.293
?8]

 

The Federal standard is 49CFR571.3,500

http://www.mmucc.us/MMUCCTraining/lessons/crashdamage/motorvehiclebodytype_f
iles/motorvehiclebodytype14.htm

 

Rick Barnes

Aloha, OR

 

From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On
Behalf Of Philip Kollas
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:48 AM
To: oeva-list at oeva.org
Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Speed limits and my legislative proposals

 

Thanks to all for the lively commentary on my legislative proposals.  The
issue of whether Oregon can modify the current arbitrary speed limit on EVs
is not as sinister as it might seem to some?this is not the case of assisted
suicide or anything like that.

I did some checking in the Oregon Revised Statutes and came up empty; there
appears to be no state statute specifically limiting EV speeds.  However,
somewhere it must be possible for each state to allow certain EV speeds, as
I found the following FAQ note on an electric-vehicle site:

Q.  Can I really drive an electric vehicle on the streets?
A.  The Federal Government has ruled that neighborhood electric vehicles
(NEVs or Low Speed Vehicles), that meet their manufacturing standards can be
licensed and legally driven on roads of posted speeds of 25 mph or less.
Because of a progressive government in Washington State, it has been
determined that these are perfectly safe at speeds to 35 mph.

Note that this limit of 25 mph (35 in Wash.) refers only to NEVs.  I have
yet to stumble across any federal definition of NEV, so I?ll keep checking.
The point here is, if Washington state was able to upward-revise the NEV
speed limit, it must be possible for Oregon to do likewise.  That?s what I
asked my state rep to push for, among other things.

And yes, I?ll be sure to push for good safety standards in electric
vehicles, so fear not.

Cheers,
Philip Kollas
===========


On 1/5/09 12:00 PM, "oeva-list-request at oeva.org"
<oeva-list-request at oeva.org> wrote:

> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: Legislative proposals (John RA Benson)
>    2. Re: Legislative proposals (Alan Batie)
>    3. Re: Legislative proposals (Nick Galaday)
>    4. Re: Legislative proposals (Tony McCormick)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 12:29:11 -0800
> From: John RA Benson <jrab at e-m-w.com>
> Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Legislative proposals
> To: Oregon EV <oeva-list at oeva.org>
> Message-ID: <C5865C17.1AE18%jrab at e-m-w.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> 
> The 30 mph rule is about NEV's - vehicles like golf carts that don't pass
or
> need to pass crash tests. Nobody in their right mind would want to drive a
> golf cart at 60 on the freeway. If a vehicle is built that an pass crash
> tests, it can go as fast as it can. Since motorcycles (meaning 3 wheelers)
> don't need to pass crash tests, they aren't speed limited. That is why
fast
> 3 wheeled EV's like the Sparrow are around, and fast 4 production wheelers
> aren't - crash testing is expensive! That said, I'd take my chances in a
> Sparrow over a motorcycle any day.
> 
> Take a car that HAS been crash tested and make it as fast as you want!
> 
> Like Don said, recycle those ICE into EV's and we can reduce the ICE
impact
> on landfills, take a polluter off the road and reduce consumerism with the
> big auto manufacturers. Those are all Really Good Things. And we can do it
> already. Tax incentives for converters and consumers that do conversions
> would be show the state is interested in really promoting green values and
> benefit a broader spectrum of the population, not just a few
manufacturers.
> 
> Cheers
> JRAB 
> 
> 
> On 1/4/09 6:32 AM, "cje at hevanet.com" <cje at hevanet.com> wrote:
> 
>> I'm not sure there's anything Oregon can do about the 30mph speed limit
>> issue. Isn't that a federal rule?
>> 
>> Curt
>> Lurkin'
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Oeva-list mailing list
>> Oeva-list at oeva.org
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 12:35:54 -0800
> From: Alan Batie <alan at batie.org>
> Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Legislative proposals
> To: oeva-list at oeva.org
> Message-ID: <49611DAA.8090604 at batie.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> cje at hevanet.com wrote:
>> I'm not sure there's anything Oregon can do about the 30mph speed limit 
>> issue. Isn't that a federal rule? 
> 
> I believe it is not an ev specific rule, but rather a limit on the speed 
> of vehicles that don't have to meet crash safety rules (airbags, 5mph 
> bumpers, etc).  I think the NEV category is simply an ev specific 
> subgroup, but as there are a large number of 4 wheeled evs that aren't 
> in it, it's annoying to see someone giving the impression that all evs 
> are low speed.  That said, I would like to see that limit raised to 
> 45mph, which would make them considerably more practical without 
> substantially endangering anyone.  But you're right, it is federal.  On 
> the other hand, I believe Oregon could legalize them on non-federal 
> highways, though it might jeopardize federal subsidies.  The new 
> administration may be amenable to such a change though...
> -------------- next part --------------
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 21:09:25 -0800
> From: "Nick Galaday" <nickgaladay at msn.com>
> Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Legislative proposals
> To: <oeva-list at oeva.org>
> Message-ID: <BAY113-DAV137AE281D4A1CE04F748C6BDE10 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Made in Oregon?  How's this idea?  There are quite a number of worthy
> foreign made cars that are not currently marketed in the US.  Most speak
> some version of Latin such as Renault, Citroen, Alfa-Romeo or a couple of
> Spanish models.  It seems to me the fastest, cheapest access to
> manufacturing an EV here would be to import "gliders" (sans factory ICE)
> under a special fleet purchase agreement and electrify them here.  I'm
told
> any design would have to be safety tested, requiring a large number of
> prototypes, but why reinvent the entire wheel?  Venture capital anyone?
> 
> Nick Galaday
> 
> ___Energy Conservation
>              .....saves more than energy!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 10:21:51 -0800
> From: Tony McCormick <tony at notebene.net>
> Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Legislative proposals
> To: OEVA <oeva-list at oeva.org>
> Message-ID: <49624FBF.3050606 at notebene.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> US Electric did that in 1980 with the Renault LeCar ...  which is what I 
> started with.  Ie: my "conversion" was from 48volt SCR based to 120 Volt 
> PWM based... never saw an ICE engine,
> --Tony
> 
> Nick Galaday wrote:
>> Made in Oregon?  How's this idea?  There are quite a number of worthy
>> foreign made cars that are not currently marketed in the US.  Most speak
>> some version of Latin such as Renault, Citroen, Alfa-Romeo or a couple of
>> Spanish models.  It seems to me the fastest, cheapest access to
>> manufacturing an EV here would be to import "gliders" (sans factory ICE)
>> under a special fleet purchase agreement and electrify them here.  I'm
told
>> any design would have to be safety tested, requiring a large number of
>> prototypes, but why reinvent the entire wheel?  Venture capital anyone?
>> 
>> Nick Galaday
>> 
>> ___Energy Conservation
>>              .....saves more than energy!
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Oeva-list mailing list
>> Oeva-list at oeva.org
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
>> 
>> 
>>   
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Oeva-list mailing list
> Oeva-list at oeva.org
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
> 
> 
> End of Oeva-list Digest, Vol 63, Issue 5
> ****************************************

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From bob at research13.com  Tue Jan  6 19:56:23 2009
From: bob at research13.com (bob at research13.com)
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 03:56:23 +0000
Subject: [Oeva-list] Speed limits and my legislative proposals
Message-ID: <W9863414959124471231300583@webmail32>

I don't see mph beign Federally regulated anytime soon. For example, AZ and ID helmet laws mean that brain injured bikers in those states jack up insurance/healthcare costs because helmet laws are not inforced. 

I'm not sure on the modification of making vehicles go faster is bad in and of itself. For me, the power to go 45mph means I could go with traffic and perhaps power a hill a bit better. This might make me more likely to buy an EV for neighborhood use whereas at 35mph, it's hard to even take my kids to school without irritating rushing commuters. 

Personally, seems like making things faster is innovation and yankee ingenuity and shouldn't be penalized by itself. I still like to think of our country as the land of the free, home of the brave, and that we can handle safety through training and licensing and I'd hate to see manufacturers penalized too heavily. Over time with good communications I think consumers of EVs would be smart enough to want crash tested vehicles. Tesla cars go really fast - and that's a personal choice which would make the "already crash tested Tesla" appear unsafe. In Europe they don't always have guard rails on freeway systems, yet, many drivers are very safe on these same roads. Keeps the responsibility for safety on the driver and it sure makes drivers slow down. 

I've been behind a guy in town who has a Jet turbine powered motorcycle that is street legal. Jay Leno also has one. Motorcycles are statistically quite safe and I think NEVs are more safe than motorcycles and should be treated accordingly. Perhaps it is too paternalistic, but maybe NEV drivers should have to have some training or pass a test to go at speeds so that people are clear about the danger of a vehicle that isn't crash tested. Of course, people think I'm crazy because I fly small airplanes. The trip to the airport in my crash tested heavy automobile is millions of times more risky, statistically, than flying the plane. The reason is the pilot training and annual inspections of the plane by Federally certified mechanics and bi-annual reviews of the pilot by Federally tested Flight Instructors. And, I know my limitations and would not fly in the weather of tonight or recent weeks- Part of the reason planes are safe is that pilots don't fly in risky situations. 

Also interesting, it has been proven that "speeders" (those that get speeding tickets) are safer than those that do not get caught speeding. However, insurance companies ding you for a speeding ticket without looking at safety. Additionally, insurance companies routinely have underwritten the cost of radar for police. Hmm. Alcohol is the major contributor to fatalities in motorcycles, small planes, cars and ICE autos. Many fatalities in Oregon are where speed limites are under 30 with drinking drivers. 

I think it would be better to reduce drinking and driving than limiting NEV miles per hour. MPH is one measurement. Safety is another. Greenhouse gas mitigationn is another measure which also ties to safety of the masses in the long run.
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Barnes [mailto:barnes.rick at verizon.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2009 06:12 PM
To: ''Philip Kollas''
Cc: ''OEVA''
Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Speed limits and my legislative proposals

I drove low speed for several years, and I think it is a mistake to speed modify and drive these vehicles faster than 25, and it is a mistake to drive them on 35 mph streets (even though this is currently allowed). I would like to see a federal vehicle class change, not state changes. A better choice is a NHTSA safety tested vehicle which will go 40 and be limited to 35 MPH streets?. and limit existing 25 MPH low speed vehicles designed under the current standard to 25 MPH streets. Current rules are bad 25 on 35 MPH streets, want to get killed? And you may not drive a low speed vehicle in the bike lane even for a minute to let cars pass per ORS statutes. I plan to oppose any legislation to raise the speed limit for these vehicles.
You need to look again at the Oregon Statutes. There are ORS rules for Low Speed Vehicles. (need to search for ?low-speed?)
811.512 Unlawfully operating low-speed vehicle on highway; penalty. (1) A person commits the offense of unlawfully operating a low-speed vehicle on a highway if the person operates a low-speed vehicle on a highway that has a speed limit or posted speed of more than 35 miles per hour.
 (2) Notwithstanding subsection (1) of this section, a city or county may adopt an ordinance allowing operation of low-speed vehicles on city streets or county roads that have speed limits or posted speeds of more than 35 miles per hour.
 (3) The offense described in this section, unlawfully operating a low-speed vehicle on a highway, is a Class B traffic violation. [2001 c.293 ?8]
The Federal standard is 49CFR571.3,500
http://www.mmucc.us/MMUCCTraining/lessons/crashdamage/motorvehiclebodytype_files/motorvehiclebodytype14.htm
Rick Barnes
Aloha, OR
From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of Philip Kollas
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:48 AM
To: oeva-list at oeva.org
Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Speed limits and my legislative proposals


Thanks to all for the lively commentary on my legislative proposals. The issue of whether Oregon can modify the current arbitrary speed limit on EVs is not as sinister as it might seem to some?this is not the case of assisted suicide or anything like that.

I did some checking in the Oregon Revised Statutes and came up empty; there appears to be no state statute specifically limiting EV speeds. However, somewhere it must be possible for each state to allow certain EV speeds, as I found the following FAQ note on an electric-vehicle site:
Q. Can I really drive an electric vehicle on the streets?
A. The Federal Government has ruled that neighborhood electric vehicles (NEVs or Low Speed Vehicles), that meet their manufacturing standards can be licensed and legally driven on roads of posted speeds of 25 mph or less. Because of a progressive government in Washington State, it has been determined that these are perfectly safe at speeds to 35 mph.
Note that this limit of 25 mph (35 in Wash.) refers only to NEVs. I have yet to stumble across any federal definition of NEV, so I?ll keep checking. The point here is, if Washington state was able to upward-revise the NEV speed limit, it must be possible for Oregon to do likewise. That?s what I asked my state rep to push for, among other things.

And yes, I?ll be sure to push for good safety standards in electric vehicles, so fear not.

Cheers,
Philip Kollas
===========


On 1/5/09 12:00 PM, "oeva-list-request at oeva.org" <oeva-list-request at oeva.org> wrote:

> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
> 1. Re: Legislative proposals (John RA Benson)
> 2. Re: Legislative proposals (Alan Batie)
> 3. Re: Legislative proposals (Nick Galaday)
> 4. Re: Legislative proposals (Tony McCormick)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 12:29:11 -0800
> From: John RA Benson <jrab at e-m-w.com>
> Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Legislative proposals
> To: Oregon EV <oeva-list at oeva.org>
> Message-ID: <C5865C17.1AE18%jrab at e-m-w.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> 
> The 30 mph rule is about NEV's - vehicles like golf carts that don't pass or
> need to pass crash tests. Nobody in their right mind would want to drive a
> golf cart at 60 on the freeway. If a vehicle is built that an pass crash
> tests, it can go as fast as it can. Since motorcycles (meaning 3 wheelers)
> don't need to pass crash tests, they aren't speed limited. That is why fast
> 3 wheeled EV's like the Sparrow are around, and fast 4 production wheelers
> aren't - crash testing is expensive! That said, I'd take my chances in a
> Sparrow over a motorcycle any day.
> 
> Take a car that HAS been crash tested and make it as fast as you want!
> 
> Like Don said, recycle those ICE into EV's and we can reduce the ICE impact
> on landfills, take a polluter off the road and reduce consumerism with the
> big auto manufacturers. Those are all Really Good Things. And we can do it
> already. Tax incentives for converters and consumers that do conversions
> would be show the state is interested in really promoting green values and
> benefit a broader spectrum of the population, not just a few manufacturers.
> 
> Cheers
> JRAB 
> 
> 
> On 1/4/09 6:32 AM, "cje at hevanet.com" <cje at hevanet.com> wrote:
> 
>> I'm not sure there's anything Oregon can do about the 30mph speed limit
>> issue. Isn't that a federal rule?
>> 
>> Curt
>> Lurkin'
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Oeva-list mailing list
>> Oeva-list at oeva.org
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 12:35:54 -0800
> From: Alan Batie <alan at batie.org>
> Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Legislative proposals
> To: oeva-list at oeva.org
> Message-ID: <49611DAA.8090604 at batie.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> cje at hevanet.com wrote:
>> I'm not sure there's anything Oregon can do about the 30mph speed limit 
>> issue. Isn't that a federal rule? 
> 
> I believe it is not an ev specific rule, but rather a limit on the speed 
> of vehicles that don't have to meet crash safety rules (airbags, 5mph 
> bumpers, etc). I think the NEV category is simply an ev specific 
> subgroup, but as there are a large number of 4 wheeled evs that aren't 
> in it, it's annoying to see someone giving the impression that all evs 
> are low speed. That said, I would like to see that limit raised to 
> 45mph, which would make them considerably more practical without 
> substantially endangering anyone. But you're right, it is federal. On 
> the other hand, I believe Oregon could legalize them on non-federal 
> highways, though it might jeopardize federal subsidies. The new 
> administration may be amenable to such a change though...
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 21:09:25 -0800
> From: "Nick Galaday" <nickgaladay at msn.com>
> Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Legislative proposals
> To: <oeva-list at oeva.org>
> Message-ID: <BAY113-DAV137AE281D4A1CE04F748C6BDE10 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Made in Oregon? How's this idea? There are quite a number of worthy
> foreign made cars that are not currently marketed in the US. Most speak
> some version of Latin such as Renault, Citroen, Alfa-Romeo or a couple of
> Spanish models. It seems to me the fastest, cheapest access to
> manufacturing an EV here would be to import "gliders" (sans factory ICE)
> under a special fleet purchase agreement and electrify them here. I'm told
> any design would have to be safety tested, requiring a large number of
> prototypes, but why reinvent the entire wheel? Venture capital anyone?
> 
> Nick Galaday
> 
> ___Energy Conservation
> .....saves more than energy!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 10:21:51 -0800
> From: Tony McCormick <tony at notebene.net>
> Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Legislative proposals
> To: OEVA <oeva-list at oeva.org>
> Message-ID: <49624FBF.3050606 at notebene.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> US Electric did that in 1980 with the Renault LeCar ... which is what I 
> started with. Ie: my "conversion" was from 48volt SCR based to 120 Volt 
> PWM based... never saw an ICE engine,
> --Tony
> 
> Nick Galaday wrote:
>> Made in Oregon? How's this idea? There are quite a number of worthy
>> foreign made cars that are not currently marketed in the US. Most speak
>> some version of Latin such as Renault, Citroen, Alfa-Romeo or a couple of
>> Spanish models. It seems to me the fastest, cheapest access to
>> manufacturing an EV here would be to import "gliders" (sans factory ICE)
>> under a special fleet purchase agreement and electrify them here. I'm told
>> any design would have to be safety tested, requiring a large number of
>> prototypes, but why reinvent the entire wheel? Venture capital anyone?
>> 
>> Nick Galaday
>> 
>> ___Energy Conservation
>> .....saves more than energy!
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Oeva-list mailing list
>> Oeva-list at oeva.org
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Oeva-list mailing list
> Oeva-list at oeva.org
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
> 
> 
> End of Oeva-list Digest, Vol 63, Issue 5
> ****************************************


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From Theoldcars at aol.com  Tue Jan  6 22:49:02 2009
From: Theoldcars at aol.com (Theoldcars at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 01:49:02 EST
Subject: [Oeva-list] Speed limits and my legislative proposals
Message-ID: <cc7.4907c150.3695aa5e@aol.com>

I have to agree with Rick about the seriousness of having  an NEV on higher 
speed roads. I have been in the collision industry  for almost 35 years. Please 
give me some credit for knowing how vehicles  drive and brake and handle 
accidents. 
 
Most low speed vehicles are not safe at higher speeds and it is not  only 
your physical safety in an accident they are insufficient. They are not  stable 
at higher speeds they can easily lose control and also lack the required  
brakes. Their steering, suspension and braking would put them and  everyone else on 
the road at great risk. This would give EVs a bad image. Keep  in mind that 
if the speed limit is 35 just like in the real world these NEV's  will be going 
40. 
 

Motorcycles built to travel at freeway speeds is not a fair comparison.  
Taking a moped bike that is rated for 20 miles an hour and jacking the speed up  
to 40 would be a better example of the safety problem. Same for NEV's.  If  you 
raise the speed of NEV's what will happen is only the controller will be  
modified. The rest of the vehicle was never intended to travel at higher speeds  
will be pushed past their designed limit. A lot of these are already  marginal 
at best. 
 
Rick as well as many others on this list have built EVs from ICE  vehicles. 
The process has  been done and it works. It is safe, provides  jobs here, and 
converts the ICE vehicles we want off the road to EVs. It would  actually help 
speed up the process by removing ICE vehicles off the road. I  see it as a win 
win situation. We get the ICE vehicles off the road and replaced  with EVs. 
We really do not need to bring additional  vehicles here or  cause more 
manufacturing pollution and energy use in the world. It does not  matter that it is 
in Oregon or China it is a waste. An additional  burden on our planet. 
 
We just need the cost of the conversion parts and batteries to come down.  
The steady reduction value of ICE vehicles does a great job on its own. Every  
year more and more better conversion vehicles are becoming available. 
 
What would help build a market for EVs. 
 
A place to plug in and obtain power at a rate that makes electric vehicles  
useable. Most would agree 240 volts is needed and 120 should be  there as well. 
 
Get your state Rep to get the maximum amount for rebates or tax credits for  
conversion parts. Another answer could be The Energy Trust. or Lottery funds.  
All could used to help lower the cost of conversion parts and batteries.  
 
If the state of Oregon is serious you should be able to buy parts  from 
Metric Mind and get  tax credits and rebates. We should be able  to plug in and buy 
electric.
 
How many people on this list would buy the parts needed now if  you could get 
50% of your money back? 
 
Don
 
PS 
 
High quality motors and controllers last for a very long time. Importing  
cheap throw away EVs sounds good but think about it. A good AC motor can last a  
million miles before service is needed. These quality parts could be moved to  
better conversion vehicles. If we do not remove all these cars that are  
currently  being driven. How are we going to get away from being dependant  on 
oil. Money spent on one quality EV parts conversion is most  likely able to 
remove several ICE vehicles. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 1/6/2009 7:56:54 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
oeva-list-request at oeva.org writes:

Message:  1
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 18:12:13 -0800
From: "Rick Barnes"  <barnes.rick at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Speed limits and  my legislative proposals
To: "'Philip Kollas'"  <pkollas at comcast.net>
Cc: 'OEVA'  <oeva-list at oeva.org>
Message-ID:  <001801c9706d$5b1bbb20$11533160$@rick at verizon.net>
Content-Type:  text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I drove low speed for several years,  and I think it is a mistake to speed
modify and drive these vehicles faster  than 25, and it is a mistake to drive
them on 35 mph streets (even though  this is currently allowed). I would like
to see a federal vehicle class  change, not state changes. A better choice is
a NHTSA safety tested vehicle  which will go 40 and be limited to 35 MPH
streets?. and limit existing 25  MPH low speed vehicles designed under the
current standard to 25 MPH  streets. Current rules are bad 25 on 35 MPH
streets, want to get killed?  And you may not drive a low speed vehicle in
the bike lane even for a  minute to let cars pass per ORS statutes. I plan to
oppose any legislation  to raise the speed limit for these vehicles.



You need to look  again at the Oregon Statutes. There are ORS rules for Low
Speed Vehicles.  (need to search for ?low-speed?)

811.512 Unlawfully operating low-speed  vehicle on highway; penalty. (1) A
person commits the offense of unlawfully  operating a low-speed vehicle on a
highway if the person operates a  low-speed vehicle on a highway that has a
speed limit or posted speed of  more than 35 miles per hour.

(2) Notwithstanding  subsection (1) of this section, a city or county
may adopt an ordinance  allowing operation of low-speed vehicles on city
streets or county roads  that have speed limits or posted speeds of more than
35 miles per  hour.

(3) The offense described in this section,  unlawfully operating a
low-speed vehicle on a highway, is a Class B traffic  violation. [2001 c.293
?8]



The Federal standard is  49CFR571.3,500

http://www.mmucc.us/MMUCCTraining/lessons/crashdamage/motorvehiclebodytype_f
iles/motorvehiclebodytype14.htm



Rick  Barnes

Aloha, OR

**************New year...new news.  Be the first to know what is making 
headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026)
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From jrab at e-m-w.com  Tue Jan  6 23:20:48 2009
From: jrab at e-m-w.com (John RA Benson)
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 23:20:48 -0800
Subject: [Oeva-list] Speed limits and my legislative proposals
In-Reply-To: <W9863414959124471231300583@webmail32>
Message-ID: <C58997D0.1AE9B%jrab@e-m-w.com>

I think it's more about the engineering of the vehicles ? NEV's aren't
designed to go fast, to handle forces at 40/50/60, crash or no crash. To use
your plane analogy,  would you fly your small airplane if I swapped the ICE
for a jet engine powerful enough to rip the wings off? Would the person that
did that mod be happy to say, "Well, he shouldn't have been flying against
the wind, so it's his fault the wings fell off when he hit turbulence." I
don?t think they'd win in court, training or not.

Besides, we have EV's that are fast and street legal. I don't think allowing
souped up NEV's on freeways is a good way to promote EV's. If 45 is fast
enough, then won't someone want to take it to 50?  Get rid of the ICE in the
car that is engineered properly and convert it. But parts are still just too
dang expensive to make conversions something for everyone. We need
incentives to make conversions affordable enough so more people do them or
hire shops to do it for them. Speed limit increases for NEV's seem more like
a distraction for more important issues, and could potentially harm the
cause when the report of an NEV having a fatality pops in the news,
accompanied by the sound byte, "the legislature just increased the allowable
speed". 

jrab

On 1/6/09 7:56 PM, "bob at research13.com" <bob at research13.com> wrote:

> I don't see mph beign Federally regulated anytime soon.  For example, AZ and
> ID helmet laws mean that brain injured bikers in those states jack up
> insurance/healthcare costs because helmet laws are not inforced.
>  
> I'm not sure on the modification of making vehicles go faster is bad in and of
> itself.  For me, the power to go 45mph means I could go with traffic and
> perhaps power a hill a bit better.  This might make me more likely to buy an
> EV for neighborhood use whereas at 35mph, it's hard to even take my kids to
> school without irritating rushing commuters.
>  
> Personally, seems like making things faster is innovation and yankee ingenuity
> and shouldn't be penalized by itself.  I still like to think of our country as
> the land of the free, home of the brave, and that we can handle safety through
> training and licensing and I'd hate to see manufacturers penalized too
> heavily.  Over time with good communications I think consumers of EVs would be
> smart enough to want crash tested vehicles.  Tesla cars go really fast - and
> that's a personal choice which would make the "already crash tested Tesla"
> appear unsafe.   In Europe they don't always have guard rails on freeway
> systems, yet, many drivers are very safe on these same roads.  Keeps the
> responsibility for safety on the driver and it sure makes drivers slow down.
>  
> I've been behind a guy in town who has a Jet turbine powered motorcycle that
> is street legal. Jay Leno also has one. Motorcycles are statistically quite
> safe and I think NEVs are more safe than motorcycles and should be treated
> accordingly.   Perhaps it is too paternalistic, but maybe NEV drivers should
> have to have some training or pass a test to go at speeds so that people are
> clear about the danger of a vehicle that isn't crash tested.    Of course,
> people think I'm crazy because I fly small airplanes.  The trip to the airport
> in my crash tested heavy automobile is millions of times more risky,
> statistically, than flying the plane.  The reason is the pilot training and
> annual inspections of the plane by Federally certified mechanics and bi-annual
> reviews of the pilot by Federally tested Flight Instructors.  And, I know my
> limitations and would not fly in the weather of tonight or recent weeks-  Part
> of the reason planes are safe is that pilots don't fly in risky situations.
>  
> Also interesting, it has been proven that "speeders" (those that get speeding
> tickets) are safer than those that do not get caught speeding.  However,
> insurance companies ding you for a speeding ticket without looking at safety.
> Additionally, insurance companies routinely have underwritten the cost of
> radar for police.  Hmm.  Alcohol is the major contributor to fatalities in
> motorcycles,  small planes, cars and ICE autos.  Many fatalities in Oregon are
> where speed limites are under 30 with drinking drivers.
>  
> I think it would be better to reduce drinking and driving than limiting NEV
> miles per hour.  MPH is one measurement.  Safety is another.  Greenhouse gas
> mitigationn is another measure which also ties to safety of the masses in the
> long run.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rick Barnes [mailto:barnes.rick at verizon.net]
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2009 06:12 PM
>> To: ''Philip Kollas''
>> Cc: ''OEVA''
>> Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Speed limits and my legislative proposals
>> 
>> I drove low speed for several years, and I think it is a mistake to speed
>> modify and drive these vehicles faster than 25, and it is a mistake to drive
>> them on 35 mph streets (even though this is currently allowed). I would like
>> to see a federal vehicle class change, not state changes. A better choice is
>> a NHTSA safety tested vehicle which will go 40 and be limited to 35 MPH
>> streets?. and limit existing 25 MPH low speed vehicles designed under the
>> current standard to 25 MPH streets. Current rules are bad 25 on 35 MPH
>> streets, want to get killed? And you may not drive a low speed vehicle in the
>> bike lane even for a minute to let cars pass per ORS statutes. I plan to
>> oppose any legislation to raise the speed limit for these vehicles. You need
>> to look again at the Oregon Statutes. There are ORS rules for Low Speed
>> Vehicles. (need to search for ?low-speed?) 811.512 Unlawfully operating
>> low-speed vehicle on highway; penalty. (1) A person commits the offense of
>> unlawfully operating a low-speed vehicle on a highway if the person operates
>> a low-speed vehicle on a highway that has a speed limit or posted speed of
>> more than 35 miles per hour.       (2) Notwithstanding subsection (1) of this
>> section, a city or county may adopt an ordinance allowing operation of
>> low-speed vehicles on city streets or county roads that have speed limits or
>> posted speeds of more than 35 miles per hour.       (3) The offense described
>> in this section, unlawfully operating a low-speed vehicle on a highway, is a
>> Class B traffic violation. [2001 c.293 ?8] The Federal standard is
>> 49CFR571.3,500 
>> http://www.mmucc.us/MMUCCTraining/lessons/crashdamage/motorvehiclebodytype_fi
>> les/motorvehiclebodytype14.htm Rick Barnes Aloha, OR From:
>> oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of
>> Philip Kollas
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:48 AM
>> To: oeva-list at oeva.org
>> Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Speed limits and my legislative proposals
>>  Thanks to all for the lively commentary on my legislative proposals.  The
>> issue of whether Oregon can modify the current arbitrary speed limit on EVs
>> is not as sinister as it might seem to some?this is not the case of assisted
>> suicide or anything like that.
>> 
>> I did some checking in the Oregon Revised Statutes and came up empty; there
>> appears to be no state statute specifically limiting EV speeds.  However,
>> somewhere it must be possible for each state to allow certain EV speeds, as I
>> found the following FAQ note on an electric-vehicle site: Q.  Can I really
>> drive an electric vehicle on the streets?
>> A.  The Federal Government has ruled that neighborhood electric vehicles
>> (NEVs or Low Speed Vehicles), that meet their manufacturing standards can be
>> licensed and legally driven on roads of posted speeds of 25 mph or less.
>> Because of a progressive government in Washington State, it has been
>> determined that these are perfectly safe at speeds to 35 mph. Note that this
>> limit of 25 mph (35 in Wash.) refers only to NEVs.  I have yet to stumble
>> across any federal definition of NEV, so I?ll keep checking.  The point here
>> is, if Washington state was able to upward-revise the NEV speed limit, it
>> must be possible for Oregon to do likewise.  That?s what I asked my state rep
>> to push for, among other things.
>> 
>> And yes, I?ll be sure to push for good safety standards in electric vehicles,
>> so fear not.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Philip Kollas
>> ===========
>> 
>> 
>> On 1/5/09 12:00 PM, "oeva-list-request at oeva.org
>> <https://www.networksolutionsemail.com/cgi-bin/#> "
>> <oeva-list-request at oeva.org <https://www.networksolutionsemail.com/cgi-bin/#>
>> > wrote:
>> 
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > Today's Topics:
>>> > 
>>> >    1. Re: Legislative proposals (John RA Benson)
>>> >    2. Re: Legislative proposals (Alan Batie)
>>> >    3. Re: Legislative proposals (Nick Galaday)
>>> >    4. Re: Legislative proposals (Tony McCormick)
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > 
>>> > Message: 1
>>> > Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 12:29:11 -0800
>>> > From: John RA Benson <jrab at e-m-w.com
>>> <https://www.networksolutionsemail.com/cgi-bin/#> >
>>> > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Legislative proposals
>>> > To: Oregon EV <oeva-list at oeva.org
>>> <https://www.networksolutionsemail.com/cgi-bin/#> >
>>> > Message-ID: <C5865C17.1AE18%jrab at e-m-w.com
>>> <https://www.networksolutionsemail.com/cgi-bin/#> >
>>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>>> > 
>>> > The 30 mph rule is about NEV's - vehicles like golf carts that don't pass
>>> or
>>> > need to pass crash tests. Nobody in their right mind would want to drive a
>>> > golf cart at 60 on the freeway. If a vehicle is built that an pass crash
>>> > tests, it can go as fast as it can. Since motorcycles (meaning 3 wheelers)
>>> > don't need to pass crash tests, they aren't speed limited. That is why
>>> fast
>>> > 3 wheeled EV's like the Sparrow are around, and fast 4 production wheelers
>>> > aren't - crash testing is expensive! That said, I'd take my chances in a
>>> > Sparrow over a motorcycle any day.
>>> > 
>>> > Take a car that HAS been crash tested and make it as fast as you want!
>>> > 
>>> > Like Don said, recycle those ICE into EV's and we can reduce the ICE
>>> impact
>>> > on landfills, take a polluter off the road and reduce consumerism with the
>>> > big auto manufacturers. Those are all Really Good Things. And we can do it
>>> > already. Tax incentives for converters and consumers that do conversions
>>> > would be show the state is interested in really promoting green values and
>>> > benefit a broader spectrum of the population, not just a few
>>> manufacturers.
>>> > 
>>> > Cheers
>>> > JRAB 
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > On 1/4/09 6:32 AM, "cje at hevanet.com
>>> <https://www.networksolutionsemail.com/cgi-bin/#> " <cje at hevanet.com
>>> <https://www.networksolutionsemail.com/cgi-bin/#> > wrote:
>>> > 
>>>> >> I'm not sure there's anything Oregon can do about the 30mph speed limit
>>>> >> issue. Isn't that a federal rule?
>>>> >> 
>>>> >> Curt
>>>> >> Lurkin'
>>>> >> 
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> Oeva-list mailing list
>>>> >> Oeva-list at oeva.org <https://www.networksolutionsemail.com/cgi-bin/#>
>>>> >> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > ------------------------------
>>> > 
>>> > Message: 2
>>> > Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 12:35:54 -0800
>>> > From: Alan Batie <alan at batie.org
>>> <https://www.networksolutionsemail.com/cgi-bin/#> >
>>> > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Legislative proposals
>>> > To: oeva-list at oeva.org <https://www.networksolutionsemail.com/cgi-bin/#>
>>> > Message-ID: <49611DAA.8090604 at batie.org
>>> <https://www.networksolutionsemail.com/cgi-bin/#> >
>>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>> > 
>>> > cje at hevanet.com <https://www.networksolutionsemail.com/cgi-bin/#>  wrote:
>>>> >> I'm not sure there's anything Oregon can do about the 30mph speed limit
>>>> >> issue. Isn't that a federal rule?
>>> > 
>>> > I believe it is not an ev specific rule, but rather a limit on the speed
>>> > of vehicles that don't have to meet crash safety rules (airbags, 5mph
>>> > bumpers, etc).  I think the NEV category is simply an ev specific
>>> > subgroup, but as there are a large number of 4 wheeled evs that aren't
>>> > in it, it's annoying to see someone giving the impression that all evs
>>> > are low speed.  That said, I would like to see that limit raised to
>>> > 45mph, which would make them considerably more practical without
>>> > substantially endangering anyone.  But you're right, it is federal.  On
>>> > the other hand, I believe Oregon could legalize them on non-federal
>>> > highways, though it might jeopardize federal subsidies.  The new
>>> > administration may be amenable to such a change though...
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>>> > 
>>> > ------------------------------
>>> > 
>>> > Message: 3
>>> > Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 21:09:25 -0800
>>> > From: "Nick Galaday" <nickgaladay at msn.com
>>> <https://www.networksolutionsemail.com/cgi-bin/#> >
>>> > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Legislative proposals
>>> > To: <oeva-list at oeva.org <https://www.networksolutionsemail.com/cgi-bin/#>
>
>>> > Message-ID: <BAY113-DAV137AE281D4A1CE04F748C6BDE10 at phx.gbl
>>> <https://www.networksolutionsemail.com/cgi-bin/#> >
>>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>> > 
>>> > Made in Oregon?  How's this idea?  There are quite a number of worthy
>>> > foreign made cars that are not currently marketed in the US.  Most speak
>>> > some version of Latin such as Renault, Citroen, Alfa-Romeo or a couple of
>>> > Spanish models.  It seems to me the fastest, cheapest access to
>>> > manufacturing an EV here would be to import "gliders" (sans factory ICE)
>>> > under a special fleet purchase agreement and electrify them here.  I'm
>>> told
>>> > any design would have to be safety tested, requiring a large number of
>>> > prototypes, but why reinvent the entire wheel?  Venture capital anyone?
>>> > 
>>> > Nick Galaday
>>> > 
>>> > ___Energy Conservation
>>> >              .....saves more than energy!
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > ------------------------------
>>> > 
>>> > Message: 4
>>> > Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 10:21:51 -0800
>>> > From: Tony McCormick <tony at notebene.net
>>> <https://www.networksolutionsemail.com/cgi-bin/#> >
>>> > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Legislative proposals
>>> > To: OEVA <oeva-list at oeva.org
>>> <https://www.networksolutionsemail.com/cgi-bin/#> >
>>> > Message-ID: <49624FBF.3050606 at notebene.net
>>> <https://www.networksolutionsemail.com/cgi-bin/#> >
>>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>> > 
>>> > US Electric did that in 1980 with the Renault LeCar ...  which is what I
>>> > started with.  Ie: my "conversion" was from 48volt SCR based to 120 Volt
>>> > PWM based... never saw an ICE engine,
>>> > --Tony
>>> > 
>>> > Nick Galaday wrote:
>>>> >> Made in Oregon?  How's this idea?  There are quite a number of worthy
>>>> >> foreign made cars that are not currently marketed in the US.  Most speak
>>>> >> some version of Latin such as Renault, Citroen, Alfa-Romeo or a couple
of
>>>> >> Spanish models.  It seems to me the fastest, cheapest access to
>>>> >> manufacturing an EV here would be to import "gliders" (sans factory ICE)
>>>> >> under a special fleet purchase agreement and electrify them here.  I'm
>>>> told
>>>> >> any design would have to be safety tested, requiring a large number of
>>>> >> prototypes, but why reinvent the entire wheel?  Venture capital anyone?
>>>> >> 
>>>> >> Nick Galaday
>>>> >> 
>>>> >> ___Energy Conservation
>>>> >>              .....saves more than energy!
>>>> >> 
>>>> >> 
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> Oeva-list mailing list
>>>> >> Oeva-list at oeva.org <https://www.networksolutionsemail.com/cgi-bin/#>
>>>> >> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
>>>> >> 
>>>> >> 
>>>> >>   
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > ------------------------------
>>> > 
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Oeva-list mailing list
>>> > Oeva-list at oeva.org <https://www.networksolutionsemail.com/cgi-bin/#>
>>> > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > End of Oeva-list Digest, Vol 63, Issue 5
>>> > ****************************************
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Oeva-list mailing list
> Oeva-list at oeva.org
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list


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From frodus17 at gmail.com  Thu Jan  8 20:13:37 2009
From: frodus17 at gmail.com (Travis Gintz)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 20:13:37 -0800
Subject: [Oeva-list] Advanced DC motor for sale (L91)
Message-ID: <b44c78160901082013j2589b4e3n46205014a535af15@mail.gmail.com>

http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/pts/983232394.html

$650 is a pretty good deal

-- 
Travis Gintz
1986 Honda VFR DC conversion
Http://blog.evfr.net/
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From tim_kutscha at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 11 15:42:02 2009
From: tim_kutscha at yahoo.com (Tim Kutscha)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 15:42:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Oeva-list] Offer of Chevy S-10 donor vehicle for EV
Message-ID: <966120.76096.qm@web110509.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hello OEVA folks,

  Dave Jacob has a running Chevy S-10 (see below) he'd like to generously offer to a member as a donor vehicle for an EV conversion in exchange for a charitable donation.  This provides a great opportunity for someone getting started on an EV.

Please contact Dave directly if you are interested (donovan_one at comcast.net).

Cheers,
Tim
Chair, OEVA



----- Forwarded Message ----
From: "tim_kutscha at yahoo.com" <tim_kutscha at yahoo.com>
To: tim_kutscha at yahoo.com
Sent: Friday, January 9, 2009 10:27:02 PM
Subject: Contact Request from OEVA website

Dave Jacob (donovan_one at comcast.net) has sent you (office: chair) the following feedback from the OEVA website:

Tim, 

I have an old 1993 Chevy S-10 that I'd like to donate to your organization and/or make it available to your members. 

We just replaced the Chevy S-10 and the dealer would only offer $100 in trade for it. The S-10 does run but we typically do not take it far from home. 

I'm not looking for a tax write off. I have heard that Chevy S-10's make a good electric vehicle. If possible I'd like to prevent this vehicle from ending up in the dump. If one of your members would like the truck then I would just give it to them. 

What I ask in return is that whoever accepts the truck make a donation to a non-profit organization in return. We did this with a previous vehicle. The folks we gave the vehicle to gave $500 to the Portland Women's shelter. However I'm very flexible on the amount and/or non-profit organization. 

I live in Columbia City which is 30 miles N of Portland on Hwy 30. If someone is interested in the truck then I'd be happy to drive it into Portland so they could take a look at it. 

Feel free to email me and/or give me a call at (503)397-9728. 

Thanks, 

Dave Jacob


      

From jeff.shorepower at gmail.com  Sun Jan 11 17:08:37 2009
From: jeff.shorepower at gmail.com (Jeff Kim)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 17:08:37 -0800
Subject: [Oeva-list] Offer of Chevy S-10 donor vehicle for EV
In-Reply-To: <966120.76096.qm@web110509.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <966120.76096.qm@web110509.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <83b7b17c0901111708h52b4b85dh3c4838c95669afa6@mail.gmail.com>

That's a nice offer by Mr. Jacob.  How about if Mr. Jacob donates the
vehicle to OEVA, then someone gives OEVA a donation (unofficially) in
exchange for a the vehicle.  I say unofficially because OEVA may have
to have a dealer's license to resell vehicles.  In any case, this way Mr.
Jacob could get a deduction for the donation.  This would be beneficial for
OEVA, the person that gets the vehicle and Mr. Jacob.  We should check with
a tax consultant to verify how this could work.  Anyone have any expertise
on this?

Jeff Kim
President & Chief Operating Officer
Shorepower Technologies
2351 NW York Street
Portland, OR 97210
Office (503) 892-7345
Mobile (503) 686-8844
Fax (503) 802-7347
jkim at shorepower.com
www.shorepower.com


On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Tim Kutscha <tim_kutscha at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hello OEVA folks,
>
>  Dave Jacob has a running Chevy S-10 (see below) he'd like to generously
> offer to a member as a donor vehicle for an EV conversion in exchange for a
> charitable donation.  This provides a great opportunity for someone getting
> started on an EV.
>
> Please contact Dave directly if you are interested (
> donovan_one at comcast.net).
>
> Cheers,
> Tim
> Chair, OEVA
>
>
>
> ----- Forwarded Message ----
> From: "tim_kutscha at yahoo.com" <tim_kutscha at yahoo.com>
> To: tim_kutscha at yahoo.com
> Sent: Friday, January 9, 2009 10:27:02 PM
> Subject: Contact Request from OEVA website
>
> Dave Jacob (donovan_one at comcast.net) has sent you (office: chair) the
> following feedback from the OEVA website:
>
> Tim,
>
> I have an old 1993 Chevy S-10 that I'd like to donate to your organization
> and/or make it available to your members.
>
> We just replaced the Chevy S-10 and the dealer would only offer $100 in
> trade for it. The S-10 does run but we typically do not take it far from
> home.
>
> I'm not looking for a tax write off. I have heard that Chevy S-10's make a
> good electric vehicle. If possible I'd like to prevent this vehicle from
> ending up in the dump. If one of your members would like the truck then I
> would just give it to them.
>
> What I ask in return is that whoever accepts the truck make a donation to a
> non-profit organization in return. We did this with a previous vehicle. The
> folks we gave the vehicle to gave $500 to the Portland Women's shelter.
> However I'm very flexible on the amount and/or non-profit organization.
>
> I live in Columbia City which is 30 miles N of Portland on Hwy 30. If
> someone is interested in the truck then I'd be happy to drive it into
> Portland so they could take a look at it.
>
> Feel free to email me and/or give me a call at (503)397-9728.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave Jacob
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Oeva-list mailing list
> Oeva-list at oeva.org
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
>
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From jeff.shorepower at gmail.com  Sun Jan 11 17:18:03 2009
From: jeff.shorepower at gmail.com (Jeff Kim)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 17:18:03 -0800
Subject: [Oeva-list] Cadillac Plug-In
Message-ID: <83b7b17c0901111718t7c6c1f3dlc7da06ff88391dbe@mail.gmail.com>

   Cadillac Unveils Volt-based Converj Concept
Car<http://www.dailytech.com/Cadillac+Unveils+Voltbased+Converj+Concept+Car/article13906.htm>
Jeff Kim
President & Chief Operating Officer
Shorepower Technologies
2351 NW York Street
Portland, OR 97210
Office (503) 892-7345
Mobile (503) 686-8844
Fax (503) 802-7347
jkim at shorepower.com
www.shorepower.com
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From khallgeisler at gmail.com  Mon Jan 12 09:46:20 2009
From: khallgeisler at gmail.com (Kristen Hall-Geisler)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 09:46:20 -0800
Subject: [Oeva-list] 2010 Toyota Prius
Message-ID: <5D0DBC33405D4670BC38F54D8F493813@SivaLaptop>

Here it is, kids: http://www.goodgreencars.com/

I have to get back to the show floor for the Fisker Karma S concept debut, but I thought you might want to see and discuss Toyota's latest. - khg


Kristen Hall-Geisler
freelance writer | Portland, Oregon
503.975.0306 | kristenhallgeisler.com
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From carladamaris at spiritone.com  Mon Jan 12 16:11:50 2009
From: carladamaris at spiritone.com (Carla Grant)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 16:11:50 -0800
Subject: [Oeva-list] which one is right for me?
Message-ID: <38421360-352B-45B2-9B9E-9810EE3C081A@spiritone.com>

I'm looking to replace one of my batteries in a line of six.

I have Discover 12 volt AGM, 140 A-h (@20), group 31

It seems my options are...

Universal AGM, 110 A-h (@20)

Fullriver AGM, 140-150 A-h (@?)

Odyssey APM, 300 A-h (@25)

Does anyone have any experience with any of these batteries?  If so,  
would you please write me and let me know what you know?

Thanks,
Carla


From tim_kutscha at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 12 21:10:38 2009
From: tim_kutscha at yahoo.com (Tim Kutscha)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 21:10:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Oeva-list] Fw: Solar Car on Display in PDX Thurs
Message-ID: <454291.79163.qm@web110504.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hi All,

  Marcelo da Luz will be bringing the solar car to Portland this Thursday at the Ecotrust building!  

This is an early notice so the RSVP might not work on the solaroregon.org site yet, but I wanted to let y'all know so you can plan.

Have a great week!
Cheers,
Tim
OEVA Chair



----- Forwarded Message ----
Date:     Jan 15, 2009
Where:  Ecotrust Building (Jean Vollum Natural Capital Center)
          721 NW Ninth Ave, Suite 200
          Portland, Oregon
          97209
          tel: 503.227.6225
          Room: Billy Frank Conference Center

Time:   06:00pm - 07:15pm

Car on display and doors open at 05:00pm

Anyone interested in attending the presentation should RSVP via Solar Oregon website www.solaroregon.org

Looking forward to meeting everyone.

The presentation will consist of a slide show of photos of the tour, videos, talk about the project "the dream, the struggle, the victory" followed by Q&A.


Marcelo da Luz
The Power of One, solar car project
Ph. (416) 465 9459, Mobile (416) 834 0788
E-Mail: mdaluz at xof1.com
Website: www.xof1.com

"inspired by the sun, motivated by the environment"


      

From gary.graunke at intel.com  Tue Jan 13 09:34:44 2009
From: gary.graunke at intel.com (Graunke, Gary)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 09:34:44 -0800
Subject: [Oeva-list] which one is right for me?
In-Reply-To: <38421360-352B-45B2-9B9E-9810EE3C081A@spiritone.com>
References: <38421360-352B-45B2-9B9E-9810EE3C081A@spiritone.com>
Message-ID: <9662F248D13E8C45B097A77F005E97290F18132A@orsmsx503.amr.corp.intel.com>

The Hawker (Gates, enersys) Odyssey batteries are proven AGM batteries--even good enough for drag racing. I didn't see a 300AH battery in them, though. (It would be huge). 

I have no idea about the other batteries. They might be OK if they are powerful enough for EV applications (the usual problem). 

The main factor is to find one that fits physically. So this may constrain your choices. 

Secondly, you should get one with the same AH rating as your other batteries. So something close to 140AH would be best. 

Since you are mixing old and new batteries, you *really* need a better than average battery management system to keep them from overcharging and ruining the others that by now have somewhat less capacity. 

I have a set of powercheq modules www.powerdesigners.com . Mine are older models, but they seem to think that they can equalize 140AH 12V batteries. 

You are welcome to try them. I don't use them anymore since I changed to A123 3.3V cells.

I also remember that I was going to get my data acquisition system together to analyze your pack. I did find it, and can do this if you have some time to spare. I've been really busy, and I recall that you were, too!

Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of Carla Grant
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 4:12 PM
To: oeva-list at oeva.org
Subject: [Oeva-list] which one is right for me?

I'm looking to replace one of my batteries in a line of six.

I have Discover 12 volt AGM, 140 A-h (@20), group 31

It seems my options are...

Universal AGM, 110 A-h (@20)

Fullriver AGM, 140-150 A-h (@?)

Odyssey APM, 300 A-h (@25)

Does anyone have any experience with any of these batteries?  If so,  
would you please write me and let me know what you know?

Thanks,
Carla

_______________________________________________
Oeva-list mailing list
Oeva-list at oeva.org
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list


From patrick0101 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 13 18:17:54 2009
From: patrick0101 at gmail.com (patrick0101 at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 18:17:54 -0800
Subject: [Oeva-list] Solar Car (Xof1) Coming to Portland
Message-ID: <8c28d7b50901131817l3b4f45adoc3307717d00ae898@mail.gmail.com>

http://celticsolar.blogspot.com/2009/01/solar-car-coming-to-portland.html

Regards,
Pat
If you drive like there is no tomorrow, it may become self-fulfilling
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From patrick0101 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 14 01:03:12 2009
From: patrick0101 at gmail.com (patrick0101 at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 01:03:12 -0800
Subject: [Oeva-list] OEVA Big Event 2009
Message-ID: <8c28d7b50901140103r3a2e5da7hf3c5f242eeba653b@mail.gmail.com>

As most of you know, the Awareness Day EVent in July is the OEVA's big
annual event. So, it is never to soon to start planning it.

There are currently two dates being considered July 4th and July 11th. If
you have an EV and you are highly likely to bring it and attend the event,
here is what I kindly ask you to do: Please respond to this email and let me
know 3 things.

1) Your name
2) Which day(s) you could attend. If either date works, even better.
3) What EV(s) you plan to bring. Any sort of plug-in vehicle qualifies: BEV,
PHEV, EREV, electric assist bike...

Please respond directly to me only. I'll publish the vote tally and then we
can have open discussion based on the data.

I will be sending another message soon asking for coordination and setup
help. If you'd like to help with the event (EV owner or not) please wait for
that email to let me know. I also have a list of names from the in-meeting
survey that Tim passed out. I'll be contacted the volunteers from that list
too.

Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Pat
If you drive like there is no tomorrow, it may become self-fulfilling
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From tim_kutscha at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 14 20:13:03 2009
From: tim_kutscha at yahoo.com (Tim Kutscha)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 20:13:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Oeva-list] Need help with Solar Car event tomorrow
Message-ID: <193751.82799.qm@web110506.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hi OEVA folks,

I realize this is short notice, but we could sure use a few people to help out with the Solar Car event tomorrow night.
Please show up if you can and seek out myself (Tim Kutscha) or Michael VanDerWater from Solar Oregon to pitch in.  I'll bring flyers and some OEVA cards.  Hope to see some of you tomorrow.  Please reply to Michael and I if you can make it.

Cheers,
Tim
OEVA Chair


----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Michael VanDerwater <michael at solaroregon.org>
To: Tim Kutscha <tim_kutscha at yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 4:55:52 PM
Subject: Solar Car

Hi Tim,

I am wondering if there is anyone from the OEVA who would be interested in helping out at this event.  Crowd control, answering questions about the car and project etc.

People will show to see the car at 5:00.  Presentation is at 6:15.  
I think that we are going to put the car right in the lobby at the Ecotrust building.  Fun!

And.  If OEVA wanted to have am info table at the presentation, there are a few tables just outside the room.  We will probably set up there as well.  This is the perfect OEVA/Solar Oregon event.

-- 
_
Michael VanDerwater
Executive Director
Solar Oregon   
www.solaroregon.org
Office 503-231-5662


      
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From matwete at comcast.net  Wed Jan 14 20:36:16 2009
From: matwete at comcast.net (Myles Twete)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 20:36:16 -0800
Subject: [Oeva-list] Need help with Solar Car event tomorrow
In-Reply-To: <193751.82799.qm@web110506.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <193751.82799.qm@web110506.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <081101c976ca$cec4dfd0$6c4e9f70$@net>

Where is it again?

 

From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On
Behalf Of Tim Kutscha
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 8:13 PM
To: oeva-list at oeva.org
Cc: michael at solaroregon.org
Subject: [Oeva-list] Need help with Solar Car event tomorrow

 

Hi OEVA folks,

I realize this is short notice, but we could sure use a few people to help
out with the Solar Car event tomorrow night.
Please show up if you can and seek out myself (Tim Kutscha) or Michael
VanDerWater from Solar Oregon to pitch in.  I'll bring flyers and some OEVA
cards.  Hope to see some of you tomorrow.  Please reply to Michael and I if
you can make it.

Cheers,
Tim
OEVA Chair

----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Michael VanDerwater <michael at solaroregon.org>
To: Tim Kutscha <tim_kutscha at yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 4:55:52 PM
Subject: Solar Car

Hi Tim,

I am wondering if there is anyone from the OEVA who would be interested in
helping out at this event.  Crowd control, answering questions about the car
and project etc.

People will show to see the car at 5:00.  Presentation is at 6:15.  
I think that we are going to put the car right in the lobby at the Ecotrust
building.  Fun!

And.  If OEVA wanted to have am info table at the presentation, there are a
few tables just outside the room.  We will probably set up there as well.
This is the perfect OEVA/Solar Oregon event.

-- 
_
Michael VanDerwater
Executive Director
Solar Oregon   
www.solaroregon.org
Office 503-231-5662

 

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From tim_kutscha at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 14 20:33:50 2009
From: tim_kutscha at yahoo.com (Tim Kutscha)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 20:33:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Oeva-list] Need help with Solar Car event tomorrow
References: <193751.82799.qm@web110506.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<081101c976ca$cec4dfd0$6c4e9f70$@net>
Message-ID: <451328.76505.qm@web110513.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hi Myles,

  We're meeting at the EcoTrust building 2nd floor conference rm.:721 NW 9th, Portland, OR
You can get directions at:  http://www.ecotrust.org/ncc/directions.html

Cheers,
Tim
OEVA Chair




________________________________
From: Myles Twete <matwete at comcast.net>
To: Tim Kutscha <tim_kutscha at yahoo.com>; oeva-list at oeva.org
Cc: michael at solaroregon.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 8:36:16 PM
Subject: RE: [Oeva-list] Need help with Solar Car event tomorrow

 
Where is it again?
 
From:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org
[mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of Tim Kutscha
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 8:13 PM
To: oeva-list at oeva.org
Cc: michael at solaroregon.org
Subject: [Oeva-list] Need help with Solar Car event tomorrow
 
Hi OEVA folks,

I realize this is short notice, but we could sure use a few people to help out
with the Solar Car event tomorrow night.
Please show up if you can and seek out myself (Tim Kutscha) or Michael
VanDerWater from Solar Oregon to pitch in.  I'll bring flyers and some
OEVA cards.  Hope to see some of you tomorrow.  Please reply to
Michael and I if you can make it.

Cheers,
Tim
OEVA Chair
----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Michael VanDerwater <michael at solaroregon.org>
To: Tim Kutscha <tim_kutscha at yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 4:55:52 PM
Subject: Solar Car

Hi Tim,

I am wondering if there is anyone from the OEVA who would be interested in
helping out at this event.  Crowd control, answering questions about the
car and project etc.

People will show to see the car at 5:00.  Presentation is at 6:15.  
I think that we are going to put the car right in the lobby at the Ecotrust
building.  Fun!

And.  If OEVA wanted to have am info table at the presentation, there are
a few tables just outside the room.  We will probably set up there as
well.  This is the perfect OEVA/Solar Oregon event.

-- 
_
Michael VanDerwater
Executive Director
Solar Oregon   
www.solaroregon.org
Office 503-231-5662


      
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From mark58150 at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 15 00:04:43 2009
From: mark58150 at yahoo.com (Mark Freidberg)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 00:04:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Oeva-list] which one is right for me?
Message-ID: <81882.33028.qm@web33304.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


















Carla,
?
If you haven't seen it already, the Yahoo Xebra-EV?group is a good source of information regarding?how various?batteries have actually been performing in the Zap Xebras based on customer experience.?
?
Just briefly reading thru some posts in the Xebra-EV group,?a couple things stood out. First,?people have been reporting problems with Discover batteries. That was?notable because a little farther back in time Discover batteries had begun to develop something of a good reputation. But frankly, they have only been available in the U.S. for a few years.?So thats not a long track record. Its likely that the lack of a good battery management system is a contributing factor in some of the reported problems.
?
Second,?some posts indicated better results using Trojan T-1275 12 volt deep cycle wet cell batteries. They deliver less power then the AGMs but their cycle life is expected to be superior. Upgrading to a 84v or 96v string would help compensate for less peak power delivery.
?
If it were me, I'd wait to see what results Gary finds if he is able to test the existing pack. Is it just one battery that is weak, or are others in decline as well?
?
Either way, if you plan on?keeping the vehicle for a while,?one worthwhile option may be to?eventually transition to a Delta-Q charger (if one is not already onboard your vehicle) and a string of 12-volt deep cycle wet cell batteries.??
?
With the?wet cell batteries you would have?less expense and no battery management system?worries.?The batteries would require periodic watering although an automatic watering system is an option. The PK truck is a nice platform for wet cell batteries because they are outside and behind the passenger compartment thus preventing exposure to any venting or electrolyte spills while driving the vehicle. Wet cells would not be advisable in the Xebra sedan.?
?
I had poor results with?Universal AGMs?in my Geo EV. Another battery to avoid is the Deka 9A31 AGM. Fullriver is a newer label and so comes with an element of risk. 
?
Mark
?

--- On Mon, 1/12/09, Carla Grant <carladamaris at spiritone.com> wrote:

From: Carla Grant <carladamaris at spiritone.com>
Subject: [Oeva-list] which one is right for me?
To: oeva-list at oeva.org
Date: Monday, January 12, 2009, 4:11 PM

I'm looking to replace one of my batteries in a line of six.

I have Discover 12 volt AGM, 140 A-h (@20), group 31

It seems my options are...

Universal AGM, 110 A-h (@20)

Fullriver AGM, 140-150 A-h (@?)

Odyssey APM, 300 A-h (@25)

Does anyone have any experience with any of these batteries?  If so,  
would you please write me and let me know what you know?

Thanks,
Carla

_______________________________________________
Oeva-list mailing list
Oeva-list at oeva.org
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list



      
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From michael at solaroregon.org  Thu Jan 15 08:53:59 2009
From: michael at solaroregon.org (Michael VanDerwater)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 08:53:59 -0800
Subject: [Oeva-list] Need help with Solar Car event tomorrow
In-Reply-To: <081101c976ca$cec4dfd0$6c4e9f70$@net>
References: <193751.82799.qm@web110506.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<081101c976ca$cec4dfd0$6c4e9f70$@net>
Message-ID: <c29e00c20901150853k6d201c5h44d268fef77a3154@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Tim for putting out the call to OEVA.  The event is on the 2nd floor
of the ecotrust bldg.  More info here.
http://www.solaroregon.org/events/the-power-of-one-solar-car-project

I think that Marcelo is going to arrive sometime around 4:00 or 4:30.  Time
is not firm, however we had set it up to have the car ready to be seen by
the public by 5:00 and then a presentation by 6:15.  I am hoping that
Marcelo will call me today to confirm his timeline.  We are planning to
literally pick the car up and walk it in to the lobby to be displayed.

-Michael
Cell 503-916-9639.

On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 8:36 PM, Myles Twete <matwete at comcast.net> wrote:

>  Where is it again?
>
>
>
> *From:* oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Tim Kutscha
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 14, 2009 8:13 PM
> *To:* oeva-list at oeva.org
> *Cc:* michael at solaroregon.org
> *Subject:* [Oeva-list] Need help with Solar Car event tomorrow
>
>
>
> Hi OEVA folks,
>
> I realize this is short notice, but we could sure use a few people to help
> out with the Solar Car event tomorrow night.
> Please show up if you can and seek out myself (Tim Kutscha) or Michael
> VanDerWater from Solar Oregon to pitch in.  I'll bring flyers and some OEVA
> cards.  Hope to see some of you tomorrow.  Please reply to Michael and I if
> you can make it.
>
> Cheers,
> Tim
> OEVA Chair
>
> ----- Forwarded Message ----
> *From:* Michael VanDerwater <michael at solaroregon.org>
> *To:* Tim Kutscha <tim_kutscha at yahoo.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 14, 2009 4:55:52 PM
> *Subject:* Solar Car
>
> Hi Tim,
>
> I am wondering if there is anyone from the OEVA who would be interested in
> helping out at this event.  Crowd control, answering questions about the car
> and project etc.
>
> People will show to see the car at 5:00.  Presentation is at 6:15.
> I think that we are going to put the car right in the lobby at the Ecotrust
> building.  Fun!
>
> And.  If OEVA wanted to have am info table at the presentation, there are a
> few tables just outside the room.  We will probably set up there as well.
> This is the perfect OEVA/Solar Oregon event.
>
> --
> _
> Michael VanDerwater
> Executive Director
> Solar Oregon
> www.solaroregon.org
> Office 503-231-5662
>
>
>



-- 
_
Michael VanDerwater
Executive Director
Solar Oregon
www.solaroregon.org
Office 503-231-5662
-------------- next part --------------
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From uplands at comcast.net  Fri Jan 16 12:42:22 2009
From: uplands at comcast.net (uplands at comcast.net)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 20:42:22 +0000
Subject: [Oeva-list] Need help with Solar Car event tomorrow
Message-ID: <011620092042.29828.4970F12E000883660000748422165579969C0B020E049F9A@comcast.net>


Hi  Michael,

Sure I can help, I just need to know when (4:00 4:30) and where?

Scott

I think that Marcelo is going to arrive sometime around 4:00 or 4:30.  Time
> is not firm, however we had set it up to have the car ready to be seen by
> the public by 5:00 and then a presentation by 6:15.  I am hoping that
> Marcelo will call me today to confirm his timeline.  We are planning to
> literally pick the car up and walk it in to the lobby to be displayed.
> 

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: oeva-list-request at oeva.org
> Send Oeva-list mailing list submissions to
> 	oeva-list at oeva.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	oeva-list-request at oeva.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	oeva-list-owner at oeva.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Oeva-list digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: Need help with Solar Car event tomorrow (Michael VanDerwater)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 08:53:59 -0800
> From: "Michael VanDerwater" <michael at solaroregon.org>
> Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Need help with Solar Car event tomorrow
> To: "Myles Twete" <matwete at comcast.net>
> Cc: oeva-list at oeva.org
> Message-ID:
> 	<c29e00c20901150853k6d201c5h44d268fef77a3154 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Thanks Tim for putting out the call to OEVA.  The event is on the 2nd floor
> of the ecotrust bldg.  More info here.
> http://www.solaroregon.org/events/the-power-of-one-solar-car-project
> 
> I think that Marcelo is going to arrive sometime around 4:00 or 4:30.  Time
> is not firm, however we had set it up to have the car ready to be seen by
> the public by 5:00 and then a presentation by 6:15.  I am hoping that
> Marcelo will call me today to confirm his timeline.  We are planning to
> literally pick the car up and walk it in to the lobby to be displayed.
> 
> -Michael
> Cell 503-916-9639.
> 
> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 8:36 PM, Myles Twete <matwete at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> >  Where is it again?
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] *On
> > Behalf Of *Tim Kutscha
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 14, 2009 8:13 PM
> > *To:* oeva-list at oeva.org
> > *Cc:* michael at solaroregon.org
> > *Subject:* [Oeva-list] Need help with Solar Car event tomorrow
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi OEVA folks,
> >
> > I realize this is short notice, but we could sure use a few people to help
> > out with the Solar Car event tomorrow night.
> > Please show up if you can and seek out myself (Tim Kutscha) or Michael
> > VanDerWater from Solar Oregon to pitch in.  I'll bring flyers and some OEVA
> > cards.  Hope to see some of you tomorrow.  Please reply to Michael and I if
> > you can make it.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Tim
> > OEVA Chair
> >
> > ----- Forwarded Message ----
> > *From:* Michael VanDerwater <michael at solaroregon.org>
> > *To:* Tim Kutscha <tim_kutscha at yahoo.com>
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 14, 2009 4:55:52 PM
> > *Subject:* Solar Car
> >
> > Hi Tim,
> >
> > I am wondering if there is anyone from the OEVA who would be interested in
> > helping out at this event.  Crowd control, answering questions about the car
> > and project etc.
> >
> > People will show to see the car at 5:00.  Presentation is at 6:15.
> > I think that we are going to put the car right in the lobby at the Ecotrust
> > building.  Fun!
> >
> > And.  If OEVA wanted to have am info table at the presentation, there are a
> > few tables just outside the room.  We will probably set up there as well.
> > This is the perfect OEVA/Solar Oregon event.
> >
> > --
> > _
> > Michael VanDerwater
> > Executive Director
> > Solar Oregon
> > www.solaroregon.org
> > Office 503-231-5662
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> _
> Michael VanDerwater
> Executive Director
> Solar Oregon
> www.solaroregon.org
> Office 503-231-5662
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: /pipermail/attachments/20090115/de3f42c8/attachment-0001.html 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Oeva-list mailing list
> Oeva-list at oeva.org
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
> 
> 
> End of Oeva-list Digest, Vol 63, Issue 15
> *****************************************


From gary.graunke at intel.com  Fri Jan 16 12:45:33 2009
From: gary.graunke at intel.com (Graunke, Gary)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 12:45:33 -0800
Subject: [Oeva-list] Need help with Solar Car event tomorrow
In-Reply-To: <011620092042.29828.4970F12E000883660000748422165579969C0B020E049F9A@comcast.net>
References: <011620092042.29828.4970F12E000883660000748422165579969C0B020E049F9A@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <9662F248D13E8C45B097A77F005E97290F225D8B@orsmsx503.amr.corp.intel.com>

The event was last night Jan 15. It was very interesting!

Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of uplands at comcast.net
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 12:42 PM
To: oeva-list at oeva.org
Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Need help with Solar Car event tomorrow


Hi  Michael,

Sure I can help, I just need to know when (4:00 4:30) and where?

Scott

I think that Marcelo is going to arrive sometime around 4:00 or 4:30.  Time
> is not firm, however we had set it up to have the car ready to be seen by
> the public by 5:00 and then a presentation by 6:15.  I am hoping that
> Marcelo will call me today to confirm his timeline.  We are planning to
> literally pick the car up and walk it in to the lobby to be displayed.
> 

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: oeva-list-request at oeva.org
> Send Oeva-list mailing list submissions to
> 	oeva-list at oeva.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	oeva-list-request at oeva.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	oeva-list-owner at oeva.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Oeva-list digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: Need help with Solar Car event tomorrow (Michael VanDerwater)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 08:53:59 -0800
> From: "Michael VanDerwater" <michael at solaroregon.org>
> Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Need help with Solar Car event tomorrow
> To: "Myles Twete" <matwete at comcast.net>
> Cc: oeva-list at oeva.org
> Message-ID:
> 	<c29e00c20901150853k6d201c5h44d268fef77a3154 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Thanks Tim for putting out the call to OEVA.  The event is on the 2nd floor
> of the ecotrust bldg.  More info here.
> http://www.solaroregon.org/events/the-power-of-one-solar-car-project
> 
> I think that Marcelo is going to arrive sometime around 4:00 or 4:30.  Time
> is not firm, however we had set it up to have the car ready to be seen by
> the public by 5:00 and then a presentation by 6:15.  I am hoping that
> Marcelo will call me today to confirm his timeline.  We are planning to
> literally pick the car up and walk it in to the lobby to be displayed.
> 
> -Michael
> Cell 503-916-9639.
> 
> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 8:36 PM, Myles Twete <matwete at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> >  Where is it again?
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] *On
> > Behalf Of *Tim Kutscha
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 14, 2009 8:13 PM
> > *To:* oeva-list at oeva.org
> > *Cc:* michael at solaroregon.org
> > *Subject:* [Oeva-list] Need help with Solar Car event tomorrow
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi OEVA folks,
> >
> > I realize this is short notice, but we could sure use a few people to help
> > out with the Solar Car event tomorrow night.
> > Please show up if you can and seek out myself (Tim Kutscha) or Michael
> > VanDerWater from Solar Oregon to pitch in.  I'll bring flyers and some OEVA
> > cards.  Hope to see some of you tomorrow.  Please reply to Michael and I if
> > you can make it.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Tim
> > OEVA Chair
> >
> > ----- Forwarded Message ----
> > *From:* Michael VanDerwater <michael at solaroregon.org>
> > *To:* Tim Kutscha <tim_kutscha at yahoo.com>
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 14, 2009 4:55:52 PM
> > *Subject:* Solar Car
> >
> > Hi Tim,
> >
> > I am wondering if there is anyone from the OEVA who would be interested in
> > helping out at this event.  Crowd control, answering questions about the car
> > and project etc.
> >
> > People will show to see the car at 5:00.  Presentation is at 6:15.
> > I think that we are going to put the car right in the lobby at the Ecotrust
> > building.  Fun!
> >
> > And.  If OEVA wanted to have am info table at the presentation, there are a
> > few tables just outside the room.  We will probably set up there as well.
> > This is the perfect OEVA/Solar Oregon event.
> >
> > --
> > _
> > Michael VanDerwater
> > Executive Director
> > Solar Oregon
> > www.solaroregon.org
> > Office 503-231-5662
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> _
> Michael VanDerwater
> Executive Director
> Solar Oregon
> www.solaroregon.org
> Office 503-231-5662
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: /pipermail/attachments/20090115/de3f42c8/attachment-0001.html 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Oeva-list mailing list
> Oeva-list at oeva.org
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
> 
> 
> End of Oeva-list Digest, Vol 63, Issue 15
> *****************************************

_______________________________________________
Oeva-list mailing list
Oeva-list at oeva.org
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list


From patrick0101 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 16 22:18:05 2009
From: patrick0101 at gmail.com (patrick0101 at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 22:18:05 -0800
Subject: [Oeva-list] Chevy S-10 Electric For Sale
Message-ID: <8c28d7b50901162218r4d50cf75i4484ee465fba147c@mail.gmail.com>

A Chevy EV truck like mine and Don Blazer's for sale. Don is the local
expert on these for repair help & service.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: John Wilson <wilsonofsf at aol.com>
Date: Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 1:13 PM
Subject: [S10-EV] Selling my Chevy S-10 Electric
To: s10-ev at evchargernews.com


I need to sell my 1998 Chevy S-10 EV.  I don't have a safe place to charge
it here in San Francisco.  It needs a good home to keep the batteries
conditioned while awaiting a fix on the fire issue.  It is in great shape
and gets about 35 mile on hilly SF and my freeway driving. May likely get
40-45 miles on more flat city terrain.  Please contact me if interested and
feel free to bid what you think it is worth.  I'm not selling components or
parts. It will be a whole package deal.  I can send you lots of pictures.
Here is the listing I'm preparing for craigslist, local EV groups and
possibly Ebay:

For sale:

1998 Chevy S-10 Electric
Mileage: 40,270
With "Access OK" Stickers - (VERY valuable!)

Price:  Highest bidder or will sell to the first person that hits $19,900
with no other higher bids

Included Upgrades:
Chrome Wheels (maintaining the recommended Goodyear Assurance tire at 15"
size)
Cargo Bay Fiberglass Cover with Bed Liner
Canvas Car Cover
Top of the Line Kenwood Excelon Stereo System ($4,000 value installed):
           Sirius Satellite Radio
           Multiple Speakers with Subwoofer
           Navigation System
           DVD player
           I-pod plug in glove compartment (including the I-pod)
           Security Enabled with removable face plate
Remote Electric Door Locks with Security System
Bluetooth with charger
Dual leather bucket seats in place of bench seat (not wired for power, but
could be)
Palm Pilot with monitoring software, plugged into diagnostic port and
mounted on dash
Original Configuration was Lead-acid Batteries, converted to NiMH in 2005
           Could be converted back to Lead-Acid with software reversion

Included Accessories:
2 Magna Charge Large paddle chargers
           One for wall mounting
           One on wheels for portable charging with 30' extension cord
Small paddle charger adapter
Snap on 220 Volt meter for home 220 V line to monitor power use
Spare tire with jack
Complete Two Volume Set of Service Manuals
Complete set of manuals for Kenwood Excelon system
Tech2 Flash Computer for servicing and diagnosing ($3,900 value new)

Known Issues:
Charging should not be done indoors or near structures due to recently
discovered defect
           Leading to potential fire from battery pack
           Fix is planned and experts working on it
Fire extinguisher system suggested to be installed in battery pack for added
safety
Performance Chevrolet in Sacramento will still service this vehicle

Thank you,
John Wilson
Wilsonofsf at aol.com
415-279-4670=
_______________________________________________
S10-EV mailing list
S10-EV at evchargernews.com
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/s10-ev
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From Theoldcars at aol.com  Sat Jan 17 13:57:47 2009
From: Theoldcars at aol.com (Theoldcars at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 16:57:47 EST
Subject: [Oeva-list] Factory made S-10 EV for sale
Message-ID: <cae.3e7bc7d9.36a3ae5b@aol.com>

Hello Pat
 
Here is another 1998 S-10 EV that has been listed on eBay item number  
150321118168. I sold this vehicle to them a year or two ago and was a very nice  
truck. The seller is moving back east but the vehicle is still here in Portland. 
 
I don't think they did a good job on posting the truck so it would be found  
easy by anyone looking for this model. I noticed they have not driven it many  
miles. I have not been called about any issues the whole time they had the  
vehicle except about a flat tire. The flat had nothing to do with it being  an 
electric vehicle. 
 
I think their reserve is a very fair price. I have no association with this  
vehicle other than having sold it to the current owner. 
 
Don 
 
 
In a message dated 1/17/2009 12:00:47 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
oeva-list-request at oeva.org writes:


Message: 3
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 22:18:05 -0800
From:  patrick0101 at gmail.com
Subject: [Oeva-list] Chevy S-10 Electric For  Sale
To: OEVA <oeva-list at oeva.org>
Message-ID:
<8c28d7b50901162218r4d50cf75i4484ee465fba147c at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type:  text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

A Chevy EV truck like mine and Don  Blazer's for sale. Don is the local
expert on these for repair help &  service.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: John Wilson  <wilsonofsf at aol.com>
Date: Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 1:13 PM
Subject:  [S10-EV] Selling my Chevy S-10 Electric
To:  s10-ev at evchargernews.com


I need to sell my 1998 Chevy S-10  EV.  I don't have a safe place to charge
it here in San  Francisco.  It needs a good home to keep the batteries
conditioned  while awaiting a fix on the fire issue.  It is in great shape
and gets  about 35 mile on hilly SF and my freeway driving. May likely get
40-45  miles on more flat city terrain.  Please contact me if interested  and
feel free to bid what you think it is worth.  I'm not selling  components or
parts. It will be a whole package deal.  I can send you  lots of pictures.
Here is the listing I'm preparing for craigslist, local  EV groups and
possibly Ebay:

For sale:

1998 Chevy S-10  Electric
Mileage: 40,270
With "Access OK" Stickers - (VERY  valuable!)

Price:  Highest bidder or will sell to the first person  that hits $19,900
with no other higher bids

Included  Upgrades:
Chrome Wheels (maintaining the recommended Goodyear Assurance  tire at 15"
size)
Cargo Bay Fiberglass Cover with Bed Liner
Canvas  Car Cover
Top of the Line Kenwood Excelon Stereo System ($4,000 value  installed):
Sirius Satellite  Radio
Multiple Speakers with  Subwoofer
Navigation  System
DVD player
I-pod plug in glove compartment (including the  I-pod)
Security Enabled with  removable face plate
Remote Electric Door Locks with Security  System
Bluetooth with charger
Dual leather bucket seats in place of  bench seat (not wired for power, but
could be)
Palm Pilot with  monitoring software, plugged into diagnostic port and
mounted on  dash
Original Configuration was Lead-acid Batteries, converted to NiMH in  2005
Could be converted back to  Lead-Acid with software reversion

Included Accessories:
2 Magna  Charge Large paddle chargers
One  for wall mounting
One on wheels  for portable charging with 30' extension cord
Small paddle charger  adapter
Snap on 220 Volt meter for home 220 V line to monitor power  use
Spare tire with jack
Complete Two Volume Set of Service  Manuals
Complete set of manuals for Kenwood Excelon system
Tech2 Flash  Computer for servicing and diagnosing ($3,900 value new)

Known  Issues:
Charging should not be done indoors or near structures due to  recently
discovered defect
Leading to potential fire from battery pack
Fix is planned and experts working on it
Fire extinguisher  system suggested to be installed in battery pack for  added
safety
Performance Chevrolet in Sacramento will still service this  vehicle

Thank you,
John  Wilson
Wilsonofsf at aol.com
415-279-4670=
_______________________________________________

**************Inauguration '09: Get complete coverage from the nation's 
capital.(http://www.aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000027)
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From cheryljardine at juno.com  Tue Jan 20 14:14:09 2009
From: cheryljardine at juno.com (cheryljardine at juno.com)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:14:09 GMT
Subject: [Oeva-list] Ford Think for sale
Message-ID: <20090120.141409.14939.0@webmail05.dca.untd.com>

I have a 2002 Ford Think for sale for $3900.  It is original equipment except  for the charger, which was replaced.  It was formerly used as a golf cart but I have used it as a car for 18 months.  The batteries currently get 10-12 miles to the charge and it goes 25 mph.  It is in very good condition.  Please call me at 503-788-9428 if you would like to see it.  thanks - cheryl
____________________________________________________________
Click to shop and save on brand name copiers today.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/PnY6rw2wU9jmLua3AinapJWpJocXdHGh6YK4VDGPA1tJDiolVu1qJ/
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From tim_kutscha at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 20 21:14:10 2009
From: tim_kutscha at yahoo.com (Tim Kutscha)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 21:14:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Oeva-list] Anyone have an EV near Salem/Silverton, OR?
Message-ID: <851747.44762.qm@web110514.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hi All,

  Does anyone near Salem or Silverton have an EV that they would be able to show on Earth Day?  It looks like Ingrid from SPROUT (see below) is looking for someone.  Please reply to Ingrid and myself (tim_kutscha at yahoo dot com) to let us know if you can make it.

Thanks,
Tim



----- Forwarded Message ----
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 8:00:22 PM
Subject: Contact Request from OEVA website

Ingrid Evjen-Elias, SPROut (sprout at chemeketa.edu) has sent you (office: chair) the following feedback from the OEVA website:

Hello Friends at Oregon EVA:

I'm helping to organizing the Earth Day 2009 celebration at the Oregon Garden in Silverton, Oregon. We would be thrilled to have some sort of Electric Car demo/exhibit at the event (April 18). Is this a possibility?

Please call me at 503-584-7257. Thanks so much!

Ingrid Evjen-Elias
SPROut, the Sustainable Plant Research and Outreach Center


      

From oregongreenproject at gmail.com  Wed Jan 21 11:06:28 2009
From: oregongreenproject at gmail.com (OregonGreen Project)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 11:06:28 -0800
Subject: [Oeva-list] Convenient Income using EVs for local neighborhood
	small package food delivery..............
Message-ID: <380ca08b0901211106o10d812aakd2c10aacea03373f@mail.gmail.com>

If you or someone you know owns or plans to own an EV there is an convenient
income opportunity through delivering small packages of food to local
neighborhoods.

Contact: David 503-781-2286  cell
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From tim_kutscha at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 23 09:04:36 2009
From: tim_kutscha at yahoo.com (Tim Kutscha)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 09:04:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Oeva-list] Business Meeting Minutes - Jan 22, 2009
Message-ID: <607829.78962.qm@web110502.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hi All,

Here are the meeting minutes from the OEVA business meeting last night at my place.  We discussed non-EV related items involving group direction and how the organization is run.  We plan on having these quarterly.  Paid members may join in at future business meetings.

Cheers,
Tim
OEVA Chair

---------------------------------------------
Minutes from OEVA Business Meeting on January 23, 2009

Attendees: Ray Blackburn, Phil Hochstetler, Gary Graunke, Patrick Connor, Jeff Kim,
   Ron Jayasuriya, Mike Drewry, Paul Burkey, Tim Kutscha

Agenda:

Introduction of everyone in the room

We decided to have quarterly business meetings.  Place would be determined by
number of members wishing to attend.  Smaller gatherings could happen at
people's homes, larger ones could be at larger rooms like Synkromotive,
FreeGeek or even PGE.

We wrapped up loose ends resulting from the transition between the old
treasurer and the new.  Ray will present a treasurer's report at all
future business meetings and once yearly at a general membership meeting.
Ray will also post a list of currently paid members at the next few
general meetings to make sure nobody who paid recently was dropped.

EV Awareness day will be on Saturday, July 11th this year.  Patrick will
gather folks in a sub-group at the next general meeting and decide whether
we should keep this event at non-profit status or upgrade to "commercial"
status and have vendors pay an entrance fee to make up the difference.

Discussion of whether we should pursue 501(c)3 status.  Having this status
will encourage members to donate more money for tax purposes and will
enable matching donations from corporations.  Ray will research the
requirements for this.  The Seattle EV group (SEVA) recently fulfilled
the requirements for this and might serve as a good reference.

Discussion of HPV/Electrathon event over memorial day.  Patrick is full
with EV-awareness day, so Gary will talk with Thomas Breedlove to
determine how we can "start small" and work with our partner organizations.

The "EV Grand Prix" event will be tabled until we receive more 
contacts from the person interested in making it happen.

Tim expressed frustration with possible burn-out.  Ron stepped up to
serve as Master of Ceremonies at monthly general meetings.  Other board
members agreed to step in and run monthly meetings if Tim was unable
to make it.

Open discussion on where we should go as an organization.  OEVA is going
through growing pains and member needs are changing.  More commercial
EVs are showing up at meetings as they become available on the market.

Our basic mission statement is good.  There's a shift from EV-awarness
to EV "guidance" where we need to educate people in the proper care and
use of their EVs.  We want people to stay happy with their purchase.

We currently don't have an officer to research EV public policy.  With
the governor's sustainability plan, many laws are being made.  We should
be part of this.  Gary will do more research.

It would be great if we could find an old garage and use it to help
people with conversions.  Since this is a large step, we'll table it
for a future business meeting.

Possible future meetings:
February: sub-groups (esp. EV awareness day)
  Jeff will share about the committee he's serving on
March: EV 101 presentation by Gary
April: sub-groups again
May: another presentation TBD

The idea of an OEVA post office box was mentioned.  We could use mail
forwarding to have the p.o. box mail sent to whatever address we wished. 

Ray reported that we are getting low on T-shirts and bumper-stickers.
Tim suggested that we change the design and make more for EV-awareness day.

Phil suggested that we add a Wiki or some other user-editable content
to the OEVA website.  Alan Batie, our ISP provider tried to load some
packages, but it was incompatible with the older Apache software on the server.
Phil will research this more.


Action Items:

Ray will look into the requirements for becoming a 501-3c non-profit

Ray will post a list of currently paid members at the following
three meetings to verify accuracy of current membership

Patrick will decide whether we should pursue "commercial" status for
EV-awareness day.

Patrick will look into getting a post-office box with mail forwarding

Gary will serve as a contact for the HPV/Electrathon event for
Memorial Day weekend.

Gary will research finding a policy-awareness group leader

Phil will look into user-editable content for the OEVA website

Tim will try out different T-shirt designs and present them to the group

Tim will send out the example Bylaws that he worked on

Tim will type up and send out the business meeting minutes


      

From alan at batie.org  Fri Jan 23 09:48:49 2009
From: alan at batie.org (Alan Batie)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 09:48:49 -0800
Subject: [Oeva-list] Business Meeting Minutes - Jan 22, 2009
In-Reply-To: <607829.78962.qm@web110502.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <607829.78962.qm@web110502.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <497A0301.4070106@batie.org>

Tim Kutscha wrote:

> Phil suggested that we add a Wiki or some other user-editable content
> to the OEVA website.  Alan Batie, our ISP provider tried to load some
> packages, but it was incompatible with the older Apache software on the server.
> Phil will research this more.

The problem was that particular content management system and the 
database --- I know other things do run, but I'm moving my servers this 
weekend, and expect to be updating services over the next few weeks, so 
that shouldn't be a problem for much longer...
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From alan at batie.org  Fri Jan 23 15:34:24 2009
From: alan at batie.org (Alan Batie)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 15:34:24 -0800
Subject: [Oeva-list] Aptera nearing production
Message-ID: <497A5400.80201@batie.org>

http://blog.wired.com/cars/2009/01/1st-pre-product.html
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From cheryljardine at juno.com  Fri Jan 23 18:46:41 2009
From: cheryljardine at juno.com (Cheryl M Jardine)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 18:46:41 -0800
Subject: [Oeva-list] (no subject)
Message-ID: <20090123.184642.5124.0.cheryljardine@juno.com>


____________________________________________________________
Get a degree and open new doors. Click to find flexible and affordable programs now. 
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/PnY6rw2kA4QZeTrHtDF9qVONNzGXEw7WaFQH2qCMl9yQwe9AfLXlf/

From Danilo_Reyes at hotmail.com  Sun Jan 25 12:42:06 2009
From: Danilo_Reyes at hotmail.com (D@nil0)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 12:42:06 -0800
Subject: [Oeva-list] Toyota confirms plug in
In-Reply-To: <851747.44762.qm@web110514.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <851747.44762.qm@web110514.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BLU105-DAV6D47B423BD95B1364EFFAE9CD0@phx.gbl>

I just heard the Toyota vice president in The North American Int auutoshow,
confirming there will be a new prious plug in with lithium ion batteries for
commercial accounts by the end of 09.


From patrick0101 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 26 17:50:31 2009
From: patrick0101 at gmail.com (patrick0101 at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 17:50:31 -0800
Subject: [Oeva-list] Pimped Chevy S-10 EV on EBay
Message-ID: <8c28d7b50901261750u7c1ffa43kd763030c59c51370@mail.gmail.com>

This one is tricked out. I want to buy it and sell mine :)

ebay item # 200303301196

Regards,
Pat

From khallgeisler at gmail.com  Tue Jan 27 10:33:29 2009
From: khallgeisler at gmail.com (Kristen Hall-Geisler)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 10:33:29 -0800
Subject: [Oeva-list] Medium-speed electric vehicles
Message-ID: <1B33D2923675469D9024A2FE0341FB2C@SivaLaptop>

Hi all - 

I'm doing a little research on classifications of EVs, and found that Washington, Montana, and a couple other states have "medium-speed electric vehicle" classifications on the books. In Montana, for example, MEVs have a maximum speed of 35 mph, operate under their own power via electric motor and batteries or ultracapacitors, are fully enclosed with a minimum of one door, etc. 

Does Oregon have anything similar? What's the difference between that and and NEV? Do you know where I could look to find this information? 

Thanks in advance -- you all are the best resource an alternative fuels journalist could have. - khg

Kristen Hall-Geisler
freelance writer | Portland, Oregon
503.975.0306 | kristenhallgeisler.com

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From jeff.shorepower at gmail.com  Tue Jan 27 11:53:11 2009
From: jeff.shorepower at gmail.com (Jeff Kim)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 11:53:11 -0800
Subject: [Oeva-list] Medium-speed electric vehicles
In-Reply-To: <1B33D2923675469D9024A2FE0341FB2C@SivaLaptop>
References: <1B33D2923675469D9024A2FE0341FB2C@SivaLaptop>
Message-ID: <83b7b17c0901271153u588c42e1l762fc72acd13ef6c@mail.gmail.com>

Kristen,
NEV are limited to 25 mph and are not allowed on streets with posted speed
limits of greater than 35mph.  This is somewhat limiting and therefore, NEVs
are primarily only practical for short distance driving within cities and
"neighborhoods".  An electric vehicle capable of 35mph would be a vast
improvement and could be used by many others to commute to work, shop, etc.


Jeff Kim
President & Chief Operating Officer
Shorepower Technologies
2351 NW York Street
Portland, OR 97210
Office (503) 892-7345
Mobile (503) 686-8844
Fax (503) 802-7347
jkim at shorepower.com
www.shorepower.com


On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 10:33 AM, Kristen Hall-Geisler <
khallgeisler at gmail.com> wrote:

>  Hi all -
>
> I'm doing a little research on classifications of EVs, and found that
> Washington, Montana, and a couple other states have "medium-speed electric
> vehicle" classifications on the books. In Montana, for example, MEVs have a
> maximum speed of 35 mph, operate under their own power via electric motor
> and batteries or ultracapacitors, are fully enclosed with a minimum of one
> door, etc.
>
> Does Oregon have anything similar? What's the difference between that and
> and NEV? Do you know where I could look to find this information?
>
> Thanks in advance -- you all are the best resource an alternative
> fuels journalist could have. - khg
>
> Kristen Hall-Geisler
> freelance writer | Portland, Oregon
> 503.975.0306 | kristenhallgeisler.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Oeva-list mailing list
> Oeva-list at oeva.org
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
>
>
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From oeva_treas at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 28 16:36:07 2009
From: oeva_treas at yahoo.com (Ray Blackburn)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:36:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Oeva-list] New electric car.
Message-ID: <665144.20361.qm@web111115.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hi members.

I have been waiting for my car from Hybridtechnologies for about 6 months now and went and picked it up about a week ago.? The car is really zippy.? Gas cars have to work really hard to keep up with me from a red light.? So far I have gone 70 miles at speeds of 55 mph or more on the same charge I went an additional 25 miles in the city.? There have been a few glitches but I think the computer worked through that.? I went to the coast with a friend in it.? We left 197th and Kinammin in Aloha to Otis Oregon wich is east of Lincoln city about ten miles.? Yes the car would have made it to Lincoln city no problem but I have a friend that lives in Otis and he has 220 charging available.? The trip was 80 miles according to Garmin GPS satellite one way.? We charged for 6 hrs and then returned to Aloha.? It was dark by then.? The headlights, heater, wipers were all used on the way back and it didn't seem to make any differance.

I have had the car up to 75 mph it does really well and is so much fun to drive.? It is a converted 08 Toyota Yaris with all options that were available in 08.? Including AC, power door locks,windows,rear defrost and rear wiper.? It also has fog lights and keyless entry.? It is so much fun I can't stop driving it.? I will bring it to the next OEVA meeting on the 12th of Feb.

Ray Blackburn?OEVA Treasurer.


      
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From patrick0101 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 28 16:21:20 2009
From: patrick0101 at gmail.com (patrick0101 at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:21:20 -0800
Subject: [Oeva-list] The Fastest Car on the Planet is an EV!!
Message-ID: <8c28d7b50901281621r7b845eble63d0f94c5b4c4f7@mail.gmail.com>

"The guys at Shelby SuperCars, having taken down the mighty Bugatti
Veyron to claim the title of fastest car on the planet"

http://blog.wired.com/cars/2009/01/worlds-fastest.html

From tim_kutscha at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 30 07:00:24 2009
From: tim_kutscha at yahoo.com (Tim Kutscha)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 07:00:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Oeva-list] Articles on Solar Car in Portland
Message-ID: <895222.19737.qm@web110506.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hi all,

For those of you who didn't get a chance to see the solar car in Portland, here are some articles:

http://www.solaroregon.org/about/news_folder/zero-gallons-three-wheels-and-10-000-miles

It looks like Marcelo (solar car driver) is also looking for some funding to continue the trip:

http://www.thestar.com/GTA/Columnist/article/564235

Cheers,
Tim