From Rick.Durst at pgn.com Thu Oct 1 09:48:18 2009 From: Rick.Durst at pgn.com (Rick Durst) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 09:48:18 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] eTec Nissan Press release Message-ID: eTec had a press release this morning talking about the joint project with Nissan which includes Portland General Electric and Oregon. Go to www.theevproject.com where you can sign up to be kept up to date on news about the EV Project as a : 1- Consumer interested in purchasing a Nissan Leaf and having a charging station installed in their home. 2- Fleet Owner/manager interested in purchasing a fleet of Nissan LEAFs and having charge infrastructure installed at my place of business. 3- Business owner who would like to have a charging station installed at my place of business. 4- Government entity, utility or organization interested in becoming a Project partner or participant. ________________________________________________ Rick Durst | Portland General Electric 121 SW Salmon St, 3WTC0407 | Portland, Oregon 97204 | *: 503.464-7631 | 7: 503.464-2284 | *: Rick.Durst at pgn.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091001/e6e6bd97/attachment.html From john.p.christian at gmail.com Thu Oct 1 12:51:39 2009 From: john.p.christian at gmail.com (John Christian) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 12:51:39 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] Nissan Leaf review Message-ID: A little more detail and some newer pictures of this amazing car. http://www.greencar.com/articles/nissan-aims-leapfrog-ahead-stylish-leaf-electric-car.php enjoy, John Christian OEVA Chair -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091001/3fc58ebf/attachment.html From evmail4ron at yahoo.com Thu Oct 1 18:49:38 2009 From: evmail4ron at yahoo.com (Ron Jayasuriya) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 18:49:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Oeva-list] Wanted: 6V batteries, either 2 or 6 of them Message-ID: <816705.26069.qm@web110106.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I have a citicar customer who may be interested in some used 6V floodies. A matched set of 6 (or even 8 if the price is right) would work. I do have a line on 4 used Trojans, so if someone out there has two lonely 6v floodies looking for a home and priced to sell, please let me know. Also, if there are any citicar gurus out there, please respond. Thanks! Ron (503) 960-5964 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091001/e681a980/attachment.html From jrab at e-m-w.com Thu Oct 1 23:38:43 2009 From: jrab at e-m-w.com (John Benson) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 08:38:43 +0200 Subject: [Oeva-list] lumeneo Message-ID: <87C85B6F-B786-4F2D-BAC6-886DD86E7156@e-m-w.com> Anyone seen this from France? http://lumeneo.fr/ What's going on with the Tango? Looks like competition. JRAB From patrick0101 at gmail.com Fri Oct 2 01:10:15 2009 From: patrick0101 at gmail.com (patrick0101 at gmail.com) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 01:10:15 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] OEVA now on Facebook Message-ID: <8c28d7b50910020110v1411f353h568cbe599cd6dd08@mail.gmail.com> If you are a Facebook user, here is another way to keep in touch with your OEVA friends. http://www.facebook.com/pages/Oregon-Electric-Vehicle-Association/138510433019 This mailing list is still the best place for OEVA news and happenings, but Facebook allows an easy way to share photos, videos and comments about EVents. Regards, Pat If going without is not an option, go efficient =D~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091002/e3c2ae95/attachment.html From patrick0101 at gmail.com Fri Oct 2 08:36:43 2009 From: patrick0101 at gmail.com (patrick0101 at gmail.com) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 08:36:43 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] Plug-in America Bumper Sticker Contest Message-ID: <8c28d7b50910020836u7ef43926ud1c0ad678763b8f2@mail.gmail.com> Vote for your favorite plug-in bumper sticker http://celticsolar.blogspot.com/2009/10/plug-in-america-bumper-sticker-contest.html Plug In Electric: Mightier than the Pump! Fuel your Future - Electric Cars Electric Cars - OPEC Free Today's Blue Sky - brought to you by electric cars Plug the Global Oil Leak - Drive Electric End the Addiction - Drive Electric PASS GAS stations AND LAUGH The ICE Age is over And many more... Regards, Pat If going without is not an option, go efficient =D~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091002/a67cd503/attachment.html From pusa411 at gmail.com Fri Oct 2 14:25:09 2009 From: pusa411 at gmail.com (PREMIUM-USA) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 14:25:09 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] I think the list would enjoy this.. Please list.. Message-ID: <793086120910021425j1631709cv168a76130f644920@mail.gmail.com> *From a real "Car Guy" out in **Los Angeles** , CA** .* *______________________________________________________________* *SO...you took FEDZILLA up on its offer of $4500. dollars to trade in your old "Clunker" **(interesting choice of words)**? Well, let's see who got the best of that "deal"...* If you traded in a clunker worth $3500, you got $4500 off for an apparent "savings" of $1000. You could have gotten $3,500 if you had just traded the car in. So you really are $1,000 ahead (depending on your clunker's value)at this point. Not too bad... However, you WILL have to *pay taxes* on the $4500 come April 15th (something that no auto dealer will tell you). If you are in the 30% tax bracket, you will pay $1350 on that $4500. So, rather than save $1000, you will actually *pay an extra* $350. to the feds. In addition, you traded in a car that was most likely paid for. Now you have 4 or 5 years of payments on a car that you did not need, trading in a "clunker" that was costing you less to run than the payments that you will now be making.. Even if you save $1,000. dollars a year in gas due to better mileage, you're still gonna be in the red for five years....hello? But wait, it gets even better: you also got ripped off by the dealer. For example, the month before the "cash for clunkers" program started, *every dealer* here in LA was selling the Ford Focus with all the goodies including A/C, auto transmission, power windows, etc for $12,500. because competition was stiff due to poor sales from the stalled economy. When "cash for clunkers" came along, they stopped discounting them and instead sold them at the list price of $15,500.. So, you paid $3000 more than you would have the month before. Honda, Toyota , and Kia played the same list price game that Ford and Chevy did. Now let's do the math... You traded in a car worth: $3500 You got a discount of: $4500 --------- Net so far +$1000 But you have to pay: $1350 in taxes on the $4500 -------- Net so far: -$350 (that's minus...in the red) And you paid: $3000 more than the car was selling for the month before ---------- Net Loss: -$3350 We could also add in the additional taxes (sales tax, state tax, dealer prep, etc...) on the extra $3000 that you paid for the car, along with the *Five years of interest* on the car loan; but let's just stop here while you kick yourself. Suffice it to say that those costs will be much higher than any savings you get from "better mileage". So who actually made out on the deal? FEDZILLA collected taxes on the car along with taxes on the $4500 they "gave" you. The car dealers made an extra $3000 or more on every car they sold along with the kickbacks from the manufacturers and the loan companies. Manufacturers got to dump lots of cars they could not give away the month before. Lots of good or repairable used cars got taken off the market, crushed and sold as scrap metal to (ready for this?) CHINA ! (Look it up...) And the poor consumer got saddled with even more debt that they cannot afford. FEDZILLA'S merry men (who promised that people making less than $250,000. would pay "not one red cent more in taxes") will make millions in new tax revenues after convincing Joe Consumer that he was getting $4500 in "free" money from the "government" In fact, Joe was giving away his $3500 car and paying an *additional* $3350 for the privilege. Chicago politics gone global...with an agenda. If you find errors in this math, please let me know...being a simple guy, I'm always willing to learn new things; and if you took "advantage" of the Clunkers deal, I have some swamp land down in Florida that's for sale... *And remember, these are the same Einsteins who want to take control of our health care system. Hold on to your wallet!!* THX.. Daniel T "Bubba" Conway Premium-EV -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091002/e74a389b/attachment.html From citicar at no-url.com Fri Oct 2 14:46:50 2009 From: citicar at no-url.com (Oliver) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 14:46:50 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] I think the list would enjoy this.. Please list.. In-Reply-To: <793086120910021425j1631709cv168a76130f644920@mail.gmail.com> References: <793086120910021425j1631709cv168a76130f644920@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Politi-SPAM? What are the rules for this list-serve and etiquette for political usage? Thanks! -Oliver _____ From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of PREMIUM-USA Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 2:25 PM To: oeva-list at oeva.org Subject: [Oeva-list] I think the list would enjoy this.. Please list.. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091002/7a6cad6a/attachment.html From cje at hevanet.com Fri Oct 2 21:28:24 2009 From: cje at hevanet.com (Curt Erickson) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 20:28:24 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] lumeneo In-Reply-To: <87C85B6F-B786-4F2D-BAC6-886DD86E7156@e-m-w.com> References: <87C85B6F-B786-4F2D-BAC6-886DD86E7156@e-m-w.com> Message-ID: Looks like V A P O R W A R E to me.. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Benson" To: "OEVA" Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 10:38 PM Subject: [Oeva-list] lumeneo > Anyone seen this from France? http://lumeneo.fr/ > > What's going on with the Tango? Looks like competition. > > JRAB > _______________________________________________ > Oeva-list mailing list > Oeva-list at oeva.org > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > > From patrick0101 at gmail.com Fri Oct 2 20:45:45 2009 From: patrick0101 at gmail.com (patrick0101 at gmail.com) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 20:45:45 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] lumeneo In-Reply-To: References: <87C85B6F-B786-4F2D-BAC6-886DD86E7156@e-m-w.com> Message-ID: <8c28d7b50910022045j58177e23g9c0eb4ac1d182d@mail.gmail.com> http://green.autoblog.com/2009/07/18/report-french-railroad-invests-in-lumeneo/ On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 9:28 PM, Curt Erickson wrote: > Looks like V A P O R W A R E to me.. > > Curt > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Benson" > To: "OEVA" > Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 10:38 PM > Subject: [Oeva-list] lumeneo > > > > Anyone seen this from France? http://lumeneo.fr/ > > > > What's going on with the Tango? Looks like competition. > > > > JRAB > > _______________________________________________ > > Oeva-list mailing list > > Oeva-list at oeva.org > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Oeva-list mailing list > Oeva-list at oeva.org > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091002/4a0d54ca/attachment.html From patrick0101 at gmail.com Fri Oct 2 21:04:21 2009 From: patrick0101 at gmail.com (patrick0101 at gmail.com) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 21:04:21 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] I think the list would enjoy this.. Please list.. In-Reply-To: <793086120910021425j1631709cv168a76130f644920@mail.gmail.com> References: <793086120910021425j1631709cv168a76130f644920@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8c28d7b50910022104u30bd0085gc7c12a2900dba17c@mail.gmail.com> Although this might be funny, it is mostly false. http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/clunkers.asp Please keep messages to this list on topic. On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 2:25 PM, PREMIUM-USA wrote: > > *From a real "Car Guy" out in **Los Angeles** , CA** .* > *______________________________________________________________* > *SO...you took FEDZILLA up on its offer of $4500. dollars to trade in your > old "Clunker" **(interesting choice of words)**? Well, let's see who got > the best of that "deal"...* > > If you traded in a clunker worth $3500, you got $4500 off for an apparent > "savings" of $1000. You could have gotten $3,500 if you had just traded the > car in. So you really are $1,000 ahead (depending on your clunker's > value) at this point. Not too bad... > > However, you WILL have to *pay taxes* on the $4500 come April 15th (something > that no auto dealer will tell you). If you are in the 30% tax bracket, > you will pay $1350 on that $4500. > > So, rather than save $1000, you will actually *pay an extra* $350. to the > feds. In addition, you traded in a car that was most likely paid for. Now > you have 4 or 5 years of payments on a car that you did not need, trading in > a "clunker" that was costing you less to run than the payments that you > will now be making.. Even if you save $1,000. dollars a year in gas due to > better mileage, you're still gonna be in the red for five years....hello? > > But wait, it gets even better: you also got ripped off by the dealer. For > example, the month before the "cash for clunkers" program started, *every > dealer* here in LA was selling the Ford Focus with all the goodies > including A/C, auto transmission, power windows, etc for $12,500. because > competition was stiff due to poor sales from the stalled economy. > > When "cash for clunkers" came along, they stopped discounting them and > instead sold them at the list price of $15,500.. So, you paid $3000 more > than you would have the month before. Honda, Toyota , and Kia played the > same list price game that Ford and Chevy did. Now let's do the math... > You traded in a car worth: $3500 > You got a discount of: $4500 > --------- > Net so far +$1000 > But you have to pay: $1350 in taxes on the $4500 > -------- > Net so far: -$350 (that's minus...in the red) > And you paid: $3000 more than the car was selling for > the month before > ---------- > Net Loss: -$3350 > > We could also add in the additional taxes (sales tax, state tax, dealer > prep, etc...) on the extra $3000 that you paid for the car, along with the > *Five years of interest* on the car loan; but let's just stop here while > you kick yourself. Suffice it to say that those costs will be much higher > than any savings you get from "better mileage". > > So who actually made out on the deal? FEDZILLA collected taxes on the car > along with taxes on the $4500 they "gave" you. The car dealers made an > extra $3000 or more on every car they sold along with the kickbacks from the > manufacturers and the loan companies. Manufacturers got to dump lots of > cars they could not give away the month before. Lots of good or repairable > used cars got taken off the market, crushed and sold as scrap metal to (ready > for this?) CHINA ! (Look it up...) And the poor consumer got saddled with > even more debt that they cannot afford. > > FEDZILLA'S merry men (who promised that people making less than $250,000. > would pay "not one red cent more in taxes") will make millions in new tax > revenues after convincing Joe Consumer that he was getting $4500 in "free" > money from the "government" In fact, Joe was giving away his $3500 car and > paying an *additional* $3350 for the privilege. Chicago politics gone > global...with an agenda. > > If you find errors in this math, please let me know...being a simple guy, > I'm always willing to learn new things; and if you took "advantage" of the > Clunkers deal, I have some swamp land down in Florida that's for sale... > > *And remember, these are the same Einsteins who want to take control of > our health care system. Hold on to your wallet!!* > > > > THX.. > Daniel T "Bubba" Conway > > Premium-EV > > > _______________________________________________ > Oeva-list mailing list > Oeva-list at oeva.org > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091002/a81ea177/attachment.html From jrab at e-m-w.com Fri Oct 2 23:58:05 2009 From: jrab at e-m-w.com (John Benson) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 08:58:05 +0200 Subject: [Oeva-list] lumeneo In-Reply-To: <8c28d7b50910022045j58177e23g9c0eb4ac1d182d@mail.gmail.com> References: <87C85B6F-B786-4F2D-BAC6-886DD86E7156@e-m-w.com> <8c28d7b50910022045j58177e23g9c0eb4ac1d182d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <02C11A76-A12E-47D9-9CE0-7EC92B1ADE8F@e-m-w.com> I saw it at a green transpo expo here in France, along with with a tiny Renault about the size of a smart car. Both of them looked pretty sweet. jrab On Oct 3, 2009, at 5:45 AM, patrick0101 at gmail.com wrote: > http://green.autoblog.com/2009/07/18/report-french-railroad-invests-in-lumeneo/ > > On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 9:28 PM, Curt Erickson wrote: > Looks like V A P O R W A R E to me.. > > Curt > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Benson" > To: "OEVA" > Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 10:38 PM > Subject: [Oeva-list] lumeneo > > > > Anyone seen this from France? http://lumeneo.fr/ > > > > What's going on with the Tango? Looks like competition. > > > > JRAB > > _______________________________________________ > > Oeva-list mailing list > > Oeva-list at oeva.org > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Oeva-list mailing list > Oeva-list at oeva.org > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > > _______________________________________________ > Oeva-list mailing list > Oeva-list at oeva.org > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091003/3d336154/attachment-0001.html From davidb at trcsolar.com Sat Oct 3 10:42:47 2009 From: davidb at trcsolar.com (David Buzzelli) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 10:42:47 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] I think the list would enjoy this.. Please list.. In-Reply-To: <8c28d7b50910022104u30bd0085gc7c12a2900dba17c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Your link (snopes) does not support your claim that this posting "is mostly false" at all. Your link references fuel consumption savings and payback/breakeven estimates and this posting refers to layout costs, taxes, and dealer pricing games. Although you think it may be funny, it is not to many concerned citizens. -----Original Message----- From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of patrick0101 at gmail.com Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 9:04 PM To: OEVA; pusa411 at gmail.com Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] I think the list would enjoy this.. Please list.. Although this might be funny, it is mostly false. http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/clunkers.asp Please keep messages to this list on topic. On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 2:25 PM, PREMIUM-USA wrote: >From a real "Car Guy" out in Los Angeles , CA . ______________________________________________________________ SO...you took FEDZILLA up on its offer of $4500. dollars to trade in your old "Clunker" (interesting choice of words)? Well, let's see who got the best of that "deal"... If you traded in a clunker worth $3500, you got $4500 off for an apparent "savings" of $1000. You could have gotten $3,500 if you had just traded the car in. So you really are $1,000 ahead (depending on your clunker's value) at this point. Not too bad... However, you WILL have to pay taxes on the $4500 come April 15th (something that no auto dealer will tell you). If you are in the 30% tax bracket, you will pay $1350 on that $4500. So, rather than save $1000, you will actually pay an extra $350. to the feds. In addition, you traded in a car that was most likely paid for. Now you have 4 or 5 years of payments on a car that you did not need, trading in a "clunker" that was costing you less to run than the payments that you will now be making.. Even if you save $1,000. dollars a year in gas due to better mileage, you're still gonna be in the red for five years....hello? But wait, it gets even better: you also got ripped off by the dealer. For example, the month before the "cash for clunkers" program started, every dealer here in LA was selling the Ford Focus with all the goodies including A/C, auto transmission, power windows, etc for $12,500. because competition was stiff due to poor sales from the stalled economy. When "cash for clunkers" came along, they stopped discounting them and instead sold them at the list price of $15,500.. So, you paid $3000 more than you would have the month before. Honda, Toyota , and Kia played the same list price game that Ford and Chevy did. Now let's do the math... You traded in a car worth: $3500 You got a discount of: $4500 --------- Net so far +$1000 But you have to pay: $1350 in taxes on the $4500 -------- Net so far: -$350 (that's minus...in the red) And you paid: $3000 more than the car was selling for the month before ---------- Net Loss: -$3350 We could also add in the additional taxes (sales tax, state tax, dealer prep, etc...) on the extra $3000 that you paid for the car, along with the Five years of interest on the car loan; but let's just stop here while you kick yourself. Suffice it to say that those costs will be much higher than any savings you get from "better mileage". So who actually made out on the deal? FEDZILLA collected taxes on the car along with taxes on the $4500 they "gave" you. The car dealers made an extra $3000 or more on every car they sold along with the kickbacks from the manufacturers and the loan companies. Manufacturers got to dump lots of cars they could not give away the month before. Lots of good or repairable used cars got taken off the market, crushed and sold as scrap metal to (ready for this?) CHINA ! (Look it up...) And the poor consumer got saddled with even more debt that they cannot afford. FEDZILLA'S merry men (who promised that people making less than $250,000. would pay "not one red cent more in taxes") will make millions in new tax revenues after convincing Joe Consumer that he was getting $4500 in "free" money from the "government" In fact, Joe was giving away his $3500 car and paying an additional $3350 for the privilege. Chicago politics gone global...with an agenda. If you find errors in this math, please let me know...being a simple guy, I'm always willing to learn new things; and if you took "advantage" of the Clunkers deal, I have some swamp land down in Florida that's for sale... And remember, these are the same Einsteins who want to take control of our health care system. Hold on to your wallet!! THX.. Daniel T "Bubba" Conway Premium-EV _______________________________________________ Oeva-list mailing list Oeva-list at oeva.org http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091003/8884841f/attachment.html From greenerwheels at gmail.com Sat Oct 3 12:06:31 2009 From: greenerwheels at gmail.com (steve boser) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 12:06:31 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] Bad name to ev conversions? OEVA Message-ID: <62256f590910031206p499ad9d7i1e6edc0422858632@mail.gmail.com> Has anyone seen this EV Bug? It looks to me, like they started with a rusted out beetle (notice floor pan photos and collapsible steering column? ) and started a conversion, the batteries are unsafe and not well secured in the drivers compartment and boot. I'm not sure what they are doing with the flywheel. I realize it is a work in progress but they are offering it for sale. To me this looks like something that would give ev conversions a very bad name. http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/ctd/1396619578.html link to http://www.thegreensceneev.com/-75-VW-Beetle-Electric-Conversion.html Thanks Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091003/2f8a8fbb/attachment.html From garry at europa.com Sat Oct 3 16:05:44 2009 From: garry at europa.com (garry painter) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 16:05:44 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] I think the list would enjoy this.. Please list.. In-Reply-To: <8c28d7b50910022104u30bd0085gc7c12a2900dba17c@mail.gmail.com> References: <793086120910021425j1631709cv168a76130f644920@mail.gmail.com> <8c28d7b50910022104u30bd0085gc7c12a2900dba17c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <907B942C-85E3-4D0B-AA59-3726039CA961@europa.com> Thank you for that post Patrick. I found it most amusing. I was having fun the other day with statistics when I found that my Solar Power ETF (KWT) had gone up 19% in 19 days. I ran through the calculations and discovered that in 22 years, my $96 dollar investment would make me rich enough to pay off all of America's "statistical" debts for the foreseeable future. I'll be worth $387 trillion dollars. That's a Tesla for every other person on the planet, and then some. :) Garry ps. Solarworld AG is not traded on Sharebuilders.com, so I had to invest in the next best thing. pps. Just in case there is anyone out there that doesn't know who or what Solarworld AG is, it is a German company that recently invested half a billion dollars in a solar panel manufacturing plant here in Oregon. double :) :) as you used to say; Sunlight will never cost $4/gallon. :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) On Oct 2, 2009, at 9:04 PM, patrick0101 at gmail.com wrote: > Although this might be funny, it is mostly false. > > http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/clunkers.asp > > Please keep messages to this list on topic. > > > On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 2:25 PM, PREMIUM-USA wrote: > > _______________________________________________ > Oeva-list mailing list > Oeva-list at oeva.org > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091003/63a4ad7e/attachment.html From jdaschel at embarqmail.com Sat Oct 3 20:10:49 2009 From: jdaschel at embarqmail.com (Joanne Daschel) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 20:10:49 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] Cash for clunkers item Message-ID: <018201ca44a0$473285f0$0202a8c0@SonyVAIO> Not to put any more wind in the sails of that original posting, but just thought I would point out the original premise of taxation on the "clunkers" credit as income (by FEDZILLA, which I guess refers to the federal government) is indeed false. The legislation specifically says it will not be considered income by the federal government. It can even be combined with hybrid-vehicle tax credits at the end of the year, if that applies to your purchase. Local and state taxing authorities are not prohibited from taxing the clunker money however, which means it might require citizens doing a little research in advance of the purchase. And possibly activism if they find the local and state gov't deciding to consider it income. You can research all the fine points of the legislation yourself at www.cars.gov (the website set up for this program). As to dealer pricing, fuel economy etc... seems to me that a savvy buyer does their homework in advance to determine competitive pricing and if a sudden run-up in prices outpaces the discounts offered, then you walk away. Same as always. Hope we can get back to electric vehicle information! 1980 Electravan owner Joanne Daschel, Lincoln City OR -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091003/3c2b4338/attachment.html From gfifield at onlinenw.com Sat Oct 3 20:12:24 2009 From: gfifield at onlinenw.com (gfifield at onlinenw.com) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 20:12:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Oeva-list] I think the list would enjoy this.. Please list.. Message-ID: Dear OEVA-list members and Bubba, OK I just can't stand this diatribe infiltrating a rather forward thinking group, and I have to comment. First of all, my violin comes out when we talk about the 30% tax bracket. There is now a 34% tax bracket and a 28% tax bracket. The 34% tax bracket goes from $208,851 ? $372,950 for a married couple. I don't know many "Joe Consumers" in that tax bracket. http://www.answers.com/topic/tax-bracket#Tax_brackets_in_the_United_States I should be so lucky to pay this tax rate! My advice to those that lament paying too much taxes: MAKE LESS MONEY. Isn't it about time they pay it back? They got fantastic tax breaks over the last 8 years. Due to the economy in Oregon, one in eight workers is not working (actually much higher), and in a very low tax bracket; probably the 10% tax bracket after deductions, possibly owing no money at all due to multiple deductions. The point of the Cash for Clunkers was to remove polluting vehicles from the road, reduce gas consumption, reduce greenhouse gasses, help rescue car dealers and manufactures and their employees and to stimulate the economy in general. The multiplicative effects are tremendous. Why do we get these postings painting a dark picture of very successful "socialistic" programs? Bubba does make some points that are valid concerning dealer pricing. However shopping around some good deals could still be made. Proof that free enterprise still thrives in America. However in a general sense he might be on topic, just on the wrong side. A lot of tax law is put into place to change our behavior. I'm a big proponent of this approach. Taxes on cigarettes being one example. We in this group are interested in electric vehicles for a variety of reasons; some of them being the betterment of our planet and society, others are just geeks interested in the technology, I'm probably both. One of the distortions the tax codes have made, is to make it more attractive to facilitate a move away from oil based transportation to electric. I'm not naive and understand that this is very complex and still ultimately is carbon based at the source of most generators in Oregon, but that will change with other incentives moving us toward renewable resources, or at least non carbon based. So I welcome Fedzilla to step up to the plate and change the incentives to make the change come quickly. We in the NW want electric vehicles and encourage their development here. Where Bubba really is off base for this OEVA posting rules is his not so disguised attach on the Obama administration and it's "agenda." The reference to "Chicago politics gone global...with an agenda" is obviously out of the right wing playbook, and doesn't belong in this posting. The reference to the ". . Einsteins who want to take control of our health care system. Hold on to your wallet!!" is again another attack, and doesn't belong on this posting. Lets get back to batteries, motors, charging stations and great news about how our economy will be fueled by American innovation. Gene > > Your link (snopes) does not support your claim that this posting "is mostly false" at all. Your link references fuel consumption savings and payback/breakeven estimates and this posting refers to layout costs, taxes, and dealer pricing games. > > Although you think it may be funny, it is not to many concerned > citizens. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of patrick0101 at gmail.com > Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 9:04 PM > To: OEVA; pusa411 at gmail.com > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] I think the list would enjoy this.. Please list.. > > Although this might be funny, it is mostly false. > > http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/clunkers.asp > > Please keep messages to this list on topic. > > > On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 2:25 PM, PREMIUM-USA wrote: > >>From a real "Car Guy" out in Los Angeles , CA . > ______________________________________________________________ > SO...you took FEDZILLA up on its offer of $4500. dollars to trade in your old "Clunker" (interesting choice of words)? Well, let's see who got the best of that "deal"... > If you traded in a clunker worth $3500, you got $4500 off for an apparent "savings" of $1000. You could have gotten $3,500 if you had just traded the car in. So you really are $1,000 ahead (depending on your clunker's value) at this point. Not too bad... > > However, you WILL have to pay taxes on the $4500 come April 15th (something that no auto dealer will tell you). If you are in the 30% tax bracket, you will pay $1350 on that $4500. > > So, rather than save $1000, you will actually pay an extra $350. to the feds. In addition, you traded in a car that was most likely paid for. Now you have 4 or 5 years of payments on a car that you did not need, trading in a "clunker" that was costing you less to run than the payments that you will now be making.. Even if you save $1,000. dollars a year in gas due to better mileage, you're still gonna be in the red for five years....hello? > > But wait, it gets even better: you also got ripped off by the dealer. For example, the month before the "cash for clunkers" program started, every dealer here in LA was selling the Ford Focus with all the goodies including A/C, auto transmission, power windows, etc for $12,500. because competition was stiff due to poor sales from the stalled economy. > > When "cash for clunkers" came along, they stopped discounting them and instead sold them at the list price of $15,500.. So, you paid $3000 more than you would have the month before. Honda, Toyota , and Kia played the same list price game that Ford and Chevy did. Now let's do the math... > You traded in a car worth: $3500 > You got a discount of: $4500 > --------- > Net so far +$1000 > But you have to pay: $1350 in taxes on the $4500 > -------- > Net so far: -$350 (that's minus...in the red) And you paid: $3000 more than the car was selling for the month before > ---------- > Net Loss: -$3350 > > We could also add in the additional taxes (sales tax, state tax, dealer prep, etc...) on the extra $3000 that you paid for the car, along with the Five years of interest on the car loan; but let's just stop here while you kick yourself. Suffice it to say that those costs will be much higher than any savings you get from "better mileage". > > So who actually made out on the deal? FEDZILLA collected taxes on the car along with taxes on the $4500 they "gave" you. The car dealers made an extra $3000 or more on every car they sold along with the kickbacks from the manufacturers and the loan companies. Manufacturers got to dump lots of cars they could not give away the month before. Lots of good or repairable used cars got taken off the market, crushed and sold as scrap metal to (ready for this?) CHINA ! (Look it up...) And the poor consumer got saddled with even more debt that they cannot afford. > > > FEDZILLA'S merry men (who promised that people making less than > $250,000. would pay "not one red cent more in taxes") will make millions in new tax revenues after convincing Joe Consumer that he was getting $4500 in "free" money from the "government" In fact, Joe was giving away his $3500 car and paying an additional $3350 for the privilege. > Chicago politics gone global...with an agenda. > > If you find errors in this math, please let me know...being a simple guy, I'm always willing to learn new things; and if you took "advantage" of the Clunkers deal, I have some swamp land down in Florida that's for sale... > > And remember, these are the same Einsteins who want to take control of our health care system. Hold on to your wallet!! > > > > THX.. > Daniel T "Bubba" Conway > > Premium-EV > > > _______________________________________________ > Oeva-list mailing list > Oeva-list at oeva.org > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > > _______________________________________________ > Oeva-list mailing list > Oeva-list at oeva.org > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > From patrick0101 at gmail.com Sun Oct 4 02:43:19 2009 From: patrick0101 at gmail.com (patrick0101 at gmail.com) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 02:43:19 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] Tesla Minivan Message-ID: <8c28d7b50910040243t899d4bduac12eb9805ca1ba3@mail.gmail.com> The company best known for their wicked fast roadster has announced that they will develop, among other things, a minivan(?). http://www.teslamotors.com/blog2/?p=74 "The Model S platform will also be used for derivatives including a minivan, cross-over utility vehicle and a utility van for fleets and other industrial or civic uses." Regards, Pat If going without is not an option, go efficient =D~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091004/cdd57c3a/attachment-0001.html From cje at hevanet.com Sun Oct 4 08:21:10 2009 From: cje at hevanet.com (cje at hevanet.com) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 15:21:10 GMT Subject: [Oeva-list] Cash for clunkers item Message-ID: <200910041521.n94FLAF5010943@broadway.hevanet.com> > Hope we can get back to electric vehicle information! 1980 Electravan > owner Joanne Daschel, Lincoln City OR Okay, let's! I bought a new Xebra this spring. I'm pretty sure I get a fed and state credit for it, and I've been kinda hunting around. I find some conflicting stuff -- some sites say I get one, some say I don't. The Oregon Energy Department website is about useless, and my emails go unanswered. I think I found the federal tax form on the web. Anyone know for sure? Curt Erickson From Theoldcars at aol.com Sun Oct 4 12:04:25 2009 From: Theoldcars at aol.com (Theoldcars at aol.com) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 15:04:25 EDT Subject: [Oeva-list] http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/ctd/1396619578.html Message-ID: Hello Steve Not until you posted the link. If the conversion was being done by a private party with the intent to be for their own learning and use that would be great. If this is intended as a vehicle for sale to the general public then I would have to agree with your concern. Most people know absolutely nothing about EVs and buying from a business would expect more. Maybe even more than one should or can expect in the real world. They would expect the business to be the expert. I did not spend a great amount of time reading but just scanned though the link. It sounds like they used copper pipe for bus bars. Cooper pipe does conduct electric but it is an alloy that is not intended for this. It could cause a loss of power with higher resistance or other issues over time as well. This sentence posted is concerning. "124 vdc so they were only about 5% depleted" It has 10 AGM batteries going by this math the 100 percent depleted would be zero volts. This not correct 100 percent depleted would be around 100 volts depending on what the battery manufacturer states. I have never heard of any lead acid battery recommend taken below 10 volts for 12 volt battery. It would be great if conversions could be done at reasonable prices by a business. However I do not see the general population ready to accept the limitations of an EV. EVs are also expensive and better batteries are still very expensive which add greatly to the completed cost. I have owned and run a business for going on 25 years. I would give anyone a high five having an EV business that did not lose money. Several years I first heard a saying at an OEVA meeting about how to make a million in EVs. Is you start with two million and you will soon have one million. It was true then and sadly from everything I see it is still true today. They seem like nice people and if they support EVs that is great. My response here is not to run off or to put down people trying to make EVs possible. I do see some concerning statements that show they need to do more research and learning. They do not under stand batteries by the above statement. If they do not fully comprehend EVs and related items then when asked they will be giving out incorrect information. I don't intend to come off as an expert in building or knowing everything about EVs. Most of my experience is working on the OEM EVs and maintaining of them. Although I did not build them the amount of engineering and workmanship is easy to see and it is impressive. Most of it cannot be duplicated but you can learn a lot from servicing them. I have a very strong interest in building an EV and research doing so as much as time permits. Don In a message dated 10/4/2009 2:44:02 AM Pacific Daylight Time, oeva-list-request at oeva.org writes: Message: 1 Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 12:06:31 -0700 From: steve boser Subject: [Oeva-list] Bad name to ev conversions? OEVA To: oeva-list Message-ID: <62256f590910031206p499ad9d7i1e6edc0422858632 at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Has anyone seen this EV Bug? It looks to me, like they started with a rusted out beetle (notice floor pan photos and collapsible steering column? ) and started a conversion, the batteries are unsafe and not well secured in the drivers compartment and boot. I'm not sure what they are doing with the flywheel. I realize it is a work in progress but they are offering it for sale. To me this looks like something that would give ev conversions a very bad name. http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/ctd/1396619578.html link to http://www.thegreensceneev.com/-75-VW-Beetle-Electric-Conversion.html Thanks Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091003/2f8a8fbb/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091004/357fc88c/attachment.html From pkollas at comcast.net Sun Oct 4 19:14:33 2009 From: pkollas at comcast.net (Philip Kollas) Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 19:14:33 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] Xebra rebates In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Curt, Unless things have changed recently (which I?ve not heard), you will get only the state tax credit, not a federal one. The fed program for pure electrics expired at the end of 2007 . . . how convenient; just when interest in EVs was about to surge. What remains is a credit for some hybrids?nothing for pure electrics. While your frustration with the Oregon Energy Dept?s site is understandable?I went through the same thing earlier this year?the form is available online at that site (see my final paragraph, below). Just print it and fill it out, then mail it to the address shown in the info, along with your proof of purchase. It?s not as slick as an online registration, but it does work, and it?s worth the effort. The state was very generous (my opinion) with its tax credit. In my application form, I told the state that my Xebra had an onboard charging system, which it does, and which I thought might qualify the Xebra for the second half of the tax credit. The Oregon credit is one half for the vehicle, one half for a charging system (if any), for a possible total of $1,500. But since the cost of the Xebra included the cost of the charging system, I had no way to split out the respective amounts for vehicle vs. charging system. The state gave me a $1,250 rebate, out of the possible $1,500. I thought that was very fair, given that I could show no proof of the amount of the additional fee for the charger. I had figured that they might just credit me with the first $750, as I had not purchased a stand-alone charger. Take a good look through the state Energy Dept?s site, click on the link that pops open the PDF form, and print it. It?s under the heading on the right side called ?Alternative Fuel Vehicles or Charging/Fueling Systems?; ignore the link to ?Hybrid Vehicle Tax Credits?--the Xebra is not a hybrid. [The Energy Dept considers electricity an ?alternative fuel,? though I despise that term for electrics.] If you still have trouble getting to the form, let me know and I?ll try to help. Cheers, Philip Kollas ===== On 10/4/09 12:00 PM, "oeva-list-request at oeva.org" wrote: > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Cash for clunkers item (cje at hevanet.com) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 15:21:10 GMT > From: cje at hevanet.com > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Cash for clunkers item > To: "Joanne Daschel" , > Message-ID: <200910041521.n94FLAF5010943 at broadway.hevanet.com> > >> Hope we can get back to electric vehicle information! 1980 Electravan >> owner Joanne Daschel, Lincoln City OR > > Okay, let's! I bought a new Xebra this spring. I'm pretty sure I get a > fed and state credit for it, and I've been kinda hunting around. I find > some conflicting stuff -- some sites say I get one, some say I don't. > The Oregon Energy Department website is about useless, and my emails go > unanswered. I think I found the federal tax form on the web. Anyone > know for sure? > > Curt Erickson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091004/df5f57e5/attachment.html From pcb.55 at hotmail.com Sun Oct 4 21:41:32 2009 From: pcb.55 at hotmail.com (Pat Bacon) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 21:41:32 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] Bad name to ev conversions? OEVA In-Reply-To: <62256f590910031206p499ad9d7i1e6edc0422858632@mail.gmail.com> References: <62256f590910031206p499ad9d7i1e6edc0422858632@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I do not believe that this the proper forum for this type of posting. 1. The OEVA site should not become a place for members to show disrespect for the work of other members. 2. This car was on display for all to see and coment on at our Sept meeting, Any concerns you had would of been better delivered in person to the owener/builder at the meeting. I am confident they would of welcomed any helpyou had to offer. 3. OEVA has yet to decide if we are to remain a suport group for owner/builders of EV conversions or become a advicate group for factory made alternative fule vehicles. Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 12:06:31 -0700 From: greenerwheels at gmail.com To: oeva-list at oeva.org Subject: [Oeva-list] Bad name to ev conversions? OEVA Has anyone seen this EV Bug? It looks to me, like they started with a rusted out beetle (notice floor pan photos and collapsible steering column? ) and started a conversion, the batteries are unsafe and not well secured in the drivers compartment and boot. I'm not sure what they are doing with the flywheel. I realize it is a work in progress but they are offering it for sale. To me this looks like something that would give ev conversions a very bad name. http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/ctd/1396619578.html link to http://www.thegreensceneev.com/-75-VW-Beetle-Electric-Conversion.html Thanks Steve _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091004/a9282d8f/attachment.html From patrick0101 at gmail.com Sun Oct 4 21:42:16 2009 From: patrick0101 at gmail.com (patrick0101 at gmail.com) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 21:42:16 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] Xebra rebates In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8c28d7b50910042142h156d4c1aj151ae9c985c5053d@mail.gmail.com> There is a federal incentive of up to $7500 and a state incentive of up to $5000 both planned to start in 2010. I am not sure if the Xebra qualifies for either. For Oregon this was done with House Bill 2180. The $1500 HEV incentive is eliminated at the end of this year and replaced by the Plug-in incentive. How the Oregon incentive is calculated is not clear to me, but I did see a couple clues in the amendments to the bill. It is not to exceed 25% of the vehicle and it is limited to a max of $5000. There may be other restrictions too (number of wheels, speed, battery capacity...). If anyone knows a good source for these additional details, please let me know. There also appeared to be a limit of using $1500 of the credit per year, with the rest to be carried forward. This is what I had to do for my solar credit with the state too. One thing is clear, we are going to need to update the info on the oeva.orgresource page in January. As for the federal incentive, it ranges from $2,500 - $7,500, depending on the vehicle's battery capacity. To be eligible for the credit, the vehicles have at least 6 kWh batteries. You can read the details here (federal tax creditsfor EVs and PHEVS).Here is my understanding: - Full incentive for first 60,000 vehicles per manufacturer, then phased out. At 200,000 vehicles the incentive is eliminated for that manufacturer - Sales and leases are both covered. - Low speed electric vehicles and 2 & 3 wheeled vehicles with batteries of at least 2.5 kWh are eligible for a 10% tax credit up to $2,500 through 2011. - Qualified conversions of vehicles to plug-in hybrid or all electric are eligible for a 10% tax credit up to $4,000 through 2011. - Limited to vehicles weighing less than 14,000 lbs. Regards, Pat If going without is not an option, go efficient =D~ On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 7:14 PM, Philip Kollas wrote: > Curt, > > Unless things have changed recently (which I?ve not heard), you will get > only the *state *tax credit, not a federal one. The fed program for pure > electrics expired at the end of 2007 . . . how convenient; just when > interest in EVs was about to surge. What remains is a credit for some > hybrids?nothing for pure electrics. > > While your frustration with the Oregon Energy Dept?s site is > understandable?I went through the same thing earlier this year?the form is > available online at that site (see my final paragraph, below). Just print > it and fill it out, then mail it to the address shown in the info, along > with your proof of purchase. It?s not as slick as an online registration, > but it does work, and it?s worth the effort. > > The state was very generous (my opinion) with its tax credit. In my > application form, I told the state that my Xebra had an *onboard *charging > system, which it does, and which I thought might qualify the Xebra for the > second half of the tax credit. The Oregon credit is one half for the > vehicle, one half for a charging system (if any), for a possible total of > $1,500. But since the cost of the Xebra included the cost of the charging > system, I had no way to split out the respective amounts for vehicle vs. > charging system. The state gave me a $1,250 rebate, out of the possible > $1,500. I thought that was very fair, given that I could show no proof of > the amount of the additional fee for the charger. I had figured that they > might just credit me with the first $750, as I had not purchased a > stand-alone charger. > > Take a good look through the state Energy Dept?s site, click on the link > that pops open the PDF form, and print it. It?s under the heading on the > right side called ?*Alternative Fuel Vehicles or Charging/Fueling > Systems?; *ignore the link to ?Hybrid Vehicle Tax Credits?--the Xebra is > not a hybrid. [The Energy Dept considers electricity an ?alternative fuel,? > though I despise that term for electrics.] If you still have trouble > getting to the form, let me know and I?ll try to help. > > Cheers, > Philip Kollas > ===== > > > On 10/4/09 12:00 PM, "oeva-list-request at oeva.org" < > oeva-list-request at oeva.org> wrote: > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Re: Cash for clunkers item (cje at hevanet.com) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 15:21:10 GMT > > From: cje at hevanet.com > > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Cash for clunkers item > > To: "Joanne Daschel" , > > Message-ID: <200910041521.n94FLAF5010943 at broadway.hevanet.com> > > > >> Hope we can get back to electric vehicle information! 1980 Electravan > >> owner Joanne Daschel, Lincoln City OR > > > > Okay, let's! I bought a new Xebra this spring. I'm pretty sure I get a > > fed and state credit for it, and I've been kinda hunting around. I find > > some conflicting stuff -- some sites say I get one, some say I don't. > > The Oregon Energy Department website is about useless, and my emails go > > unanswered. I think I found the federal tax form on the web. Anyone > > know for sure? > > > > Curt Erickson > > _______________________________________________ > Oeva-list mailing list > Oeva-list at oeva.org > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091004/2a3d2866/attachment-0001.html From patrick0101 at gmail.com Sun Oct 4 21:54:51 2009 From: patrick0101 at gmail.com (patrick0101 at gmail.com) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 21:54:51 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] Xebra rebates In-Reply-To: <8c28d7b50910042142h156d4c1aj151ae9c985c5053d@mail.gmail.com> References: <8c28d7b50910042142h156d4c1aj151ae9c985c5053d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8c28d7b50910042154k77961760h66182a3ab85251c7@mail.gmail.com> I just reread the part about the federal $7500 phase out. I was confusing the HEV incentive and the PHEV incentives. Here is the correct bit for PHEVs "The first 200,000 vehicles sold by each manufacturer are eligible for the full tax credit; the credit will then phase out over a year." Sorry for the confusion (and the long reply). There is a lot related to plug-in car incentives that will change in January. Regards, Pat If going without is not an option, go efficient =D~ On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 9:42 PM, wrote: > There is a federal incentive of up to $7500 and a state incentive of up to > $5000 both planned to start in 2010. I am not sure if the Xebra qualifies > for either. > > For Oregon this was done with House Bill 2180. > The $1500 HEV incentive is eliminated at the end of this year and replaced > by the Plug-in incentive. How the Oregon incentive is calculated is not > clear to me, but I did see a couple clues in the amendments to the bill. It > is not to exceed 25% of the vehicle and it is limited to a max of $5000. > There may be other restrictions too (number of wheels, speed, battery > capacity...). If anyone knows a good source for these additional details, > please let me know. > > There also appeared to be a limit of using $1500 of the credit per year, > with the rest to be carried forward. This is what I had to do for my solar > credit with the state too. > > One thing is clear, we are going to need to update the info on the > oeva.org resource page in January. > > As for the federal incentive, it ranges from $2,500 - $7,500, depending on > the vehicle's battery capacity. To be eligible for the credit, the vehicles > have at least 6 kWh batteries. > > You can read the details here (federal tax creditsfor EVs and PHEVS).Here is my understanding: > > > - Full incentive for first 60,000 vehicles per manufacturer, then > phased out. At 200,000 vehicles the incentive is eliminated for that > manufacturer > - Sales and leases are both covered. > - Low speed electric vehicles and 2 & 3 wheeled vehicles with batteries > of at least 2.5 kWh are eligible for a 10% tax credit up to $2,500 through > 2011. > - Qualified conversions of vehicles to plug-in hybrid or all electric > are eligible for a 10% tax credit up to $4,000 through 2011. > - Limited to vehicles weighing less than 14,000 lbs. > > > Regards, > Pat > If going without is not an option, go efficient =D~ > > > On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 7:14 PM, Philip Kollas wrote: > >> Curt, >> >> Unless things have changed recently (which I?ve not heard), you will get >> only the *state *tax credit, not a federal one. The fed program for pure >> electrics expired at the end of 2007 . . . how convenient; just when >> interest in EVs was about to surge. What remains is a credit for some >> hybrids?nothing for pure electrics. >> >> While your frustration with the Oregon Energy Dept?s site is >> understandable?I went through the same thing earlier this year?the form is >> available online at that site (see my final paragraph, below). Just print >> it and fill it out, then mail it to the address shown in the info, along >> with your proof of purchase. It?s not as slick as an online registration, >> but it does work, and it?s worth the effort. >> >> The state was very generous (my opinion) with its tax credit. In my >> application form, I told the state that my Xebra had an *onboard *charging >> system, which it does, and which I thought might qualify the Xebra for the >> second half of the tax credit. The Oregon credit is one half for the >> vehicle, one half for a charging system (if any), for a possible total of >> $1,500. But since the cost of the Xebra included the cost of the charging >> system, I had no way to split out the respective amounts for vehicle vs. >> charging system. The state gave me a $1,250 rebate, out of the possible >> $1,500. I thought that was very fair, given that I could show no proof of >> the amount of the additional fee for the charger. I had figured that they >> might just credit me with the first $750, as I had not purchased a >> stand-alone charger. >> >> Take a good look through the state Energy Dept?s site, click on the link >> that pops open the PDF form, and print it. It?s under the heading on the >> right side called ?*Alternative Fuel Vehicles or Charging/Fueling >> Systems?; *ignore the link to ?Hybrid Vehicle Tax Credits?--the Xebra is >> not a hybrid. [The Energy Dept considers electricity an ?alternative fuel,? >> though I despise that term for electrics.] If you still have trouble >> getting to the form, let me know and I?ll try to help. >> >> Cheers, >> Philip Kollas >> ===== >> >> >> On 10/4/09 12:00 PM, "oeva-list-request at oeva.org" < >> oeva-list-request at oeva.org> wrote: >> >> >> > Today's Topics: >> > >> > 1. Re: Cash for clunkers item (cje at hevanet.com) >> > >> > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >> > Message: 1 >> > Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 15:21:10 GMT >> > From: cje at hevanet.com >> > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Cash for clunkers item >> > To: "Joanne Daschel" , >> > Message-ID: <200910041521.n94FLAF5010943 at broadway.hevanet.com> >> > >> >> Hope we can get back to electric vehicle information! 1980 Electravan >> >> owner Joanne Daschel, Lincoln City OR >> > >> > Okay, let's! I bought a new Xebra this spring. I'm pretty sure I get a >> > fed and state credit for it, and I've been kinda hunting around. I find >> > some conflicting stuff -- some sites say I get one, some say I don't. >> > The Oregon Energy Department website is about useless, and my emails go >> > unanswered. I think I found the federal tax form on the web. Anyone >> > know for sure? >> > >> > Curt Erickson >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Oeva-list mailing list >> Oeva-list at oeva.org >> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091004/2d43ef0e/attachment.html From patrick0101 at gmail.com Sun Oct 4 22:58:32 2009 From: patrick0101 at gmail.com (patrick0101 at gmail.com) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 22:58:32 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] Stolen EV Cycle Message-ID: <8c28d7b50910042258q61b99819g77782f7ac361e595@mail.gmail.com> Something to keep in mind at the many EVents (and meetings) where we show our vehicles: as EV demand increases, sadly, so does the their value to thieves. http://green.autoblog.com/2009/09/30/stolen-zero-s-swiped-from-fuel-promotional-tour/ Regards, Pat If going without is not an option, go efficient =D~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091004/3f912204/attachment.html From matwete at comcast.net Mon Oct 5 11:10:50 2009 From: matwete at comcast.net (Myles Twete) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 11:10:50 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] Stolen EV Cycle In-Reply-To: <8c28d7b50910042258q61b99819g77782f7ac361e595@mail.gmail.com> References: <8c28d7b50910042258q61b99819g77782f7ac361e595@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <004601ca45e7$2c4e2080$84ea6180$@net> One day, EVs will become so commonplace that EV rallies and the OEVA itself become as ho-hum as ordinary car club rallies. No more need for promoting, outreach, PR or advocacy and political support. Just folks getting together with similarly propelled vehicles. And the vehicles themselves won't be as targeted for theft as a 70's Mustang. These are interesting times. -Myles From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of patrick0101 at gmail.com Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 10:59 PM To: OEVA Subject: [Oeva-list] Stolen EV Cycle Something to keep in mind at the many EVents (and meetings) where we show our vehicles: as EV demand increases, sadly, so does the their value to thieves. http://green.autoblog.com/2009/09/30/stolen-zero-s-swiped-from-fuel-promotio nal-tour/ Regards, Pat If going without is not an option, go efficient =D~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091005/a14982c8/attachment-0001.html From patrick0101 at gmail.com Mon Oct 5 12:02:50 2009 From: patrick0101 at gmail.com (patrick0101 at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 12:02:50 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] Vanity Plate Message-ID: <8c28d7b50910051202h1f4fd77fsc68f94472a37fc7a@mail.gmail.com> This morning I saw a license plate that read "LQD ZRO". "Liquid Zero" I assume. Sounds like a good plate for an EV that does not use liquid fuel; however, this was on a Hummer H2 that looked like it consumed plenty of liquid fuel. What are some of the good plug-in vehicle plates you have seen (or own)? Regards, Pat With Great Power, Comes Great Current and High Voltage =D~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091005/116ebe1e/attachment.html From pkollas at comcast.net Mon Oct 5 17:43:14 2009 From: pkollas at comcast.net (Philip Kollas) Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2009 17:43:14 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] Xebra tax credit--final answer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: While I don?t know what will happen in 2010, I was able to get Curt the exact form and info he needs to get is this-year Oregon tax credit on his Xebra, so we can close out this topic now. Thanks, Philip Kollas =========== On 10/5/09 11:10 AM, "oeva-list-request at oeva.org" wrote: > Send Oeva-list mailing list submissions to > oeva-list at oeva.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > oeva-list-request at oeva.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > oeva-list-owner at oeva.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Oeva-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Xebra rebates (patrick0101 at gmail.com) > 2. Stolen EV Cycle (patrick0101 at gmail.com) > 3. Re: Stolen EV Cycle (Myles Twete) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 21:54:51 -0700 > From: patrick0101 at gmail.com > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Xebra rebates > To: OEVA > Message-ID: > <8c28d7b50910042154k77961760h66182a3ab85251c7 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > I just reread the part about the federal $7500 phase out. I was confusing > the HEV incentive and the PHEV incentives. Here is the correct bit for PHEVs > "The first 200,000 vehicles sold by each manufacturer are eligible for the > full tax credit; the credit will then phase out over a year." > > Sorry for the confusion (and the long reply). There is a lot related to > plug-in car incentives that will change in January. > > Regards, > Pat > If going without is not an option, go efficient =D~ > > > On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 9:42 PM, wrote: > >> There is a federal incentive of up to $7500 and a state incentive of up to >> $5000 both planned to start in 2010. I am not sure if the Xebra qualifies >> for either. >> >> For Oregon this was done with House Bill >> 2180. >> The $1500 HEV incentive is eliminated at the end of this year and replaced >> by the Plug-in incentive. How the Oregon incentive is calculated is not >> clear to me, but I did see a couple clues in the amendments to the bill. It >> is not to exceed 25% of the vehicle and it is limited to a max of $5000. >> There may be other restrictions too (number of wheels, speed, battery >> capacity...). If anyone knows a good source for these additional details, >> please let me know. >> >> There also appeared to be a limit of using $1500 of the credit per year, >> with the rest to be carried forward. This is what I had to do for my solar >> credit with the state too. >> >> One thing is clear, we are going to need to update the info on the >> oeva.org resource page in January. >> >> As for the federal incentive, it ranges from $2,500 - $7,500, depending on >> the vehicle's battery capacity. To be eligible for the credit, the vehicles >> have at least 6 kWh batteries. >> >> You can read the details here (federal tax >> credits> f1404652>for EVs and PHEVS).Here is my understanding: >> >> >> - Full incentive for first 60,000 vehicles per manufacturer, then >> phased out. At 200,000 vehicles the incentive is eliminated for that >> manufacturer >> - Sales and leases are both covered. >> - Low speed electric vehicles and 2 & 3 wheeled vehicles with batteries >> of at least 2.5 kWh are eligible for a 10% tax credit up to $2,500 through >> 2011. >> - Qualified conversions of vehicles to plug-in hybrid or all electric >> are eligible for a 10% tax credit up to $4,000 through 2011. >> - Limited to vehicles weighing less than 14,000 lbs. >> >> >> Regards, >> Pat >> If going without is not an option, go efficient =D~ >> >> >> On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 7:14 PM, Philip Kollas wrote: >> >>> Curt, >>> >>> Unless things have changed recently (which I?ve not heard), you will get >>> only the *state *tax credit, not a federal one. The fed program for pure >>> electrics expired at the end of 2007 . . . how convenient; just when >>> interest in EVs was about to surge. What remains is a credit for some >>> hybrids?nothing for pure electrics. >>> >>> While your frustration with the Oregon Energy Dept?s site is >>> understandable?I went through the same thing earlier this year?the form is >>> available online at that site (see my final paragraph, below). Just print >>> it and fill it out, then mail it to the address shown in the info, along >>> with your proof of purchase. It?s not as slick as an online registration, >>> but it does work, and it?s worth the effort. >>> >>> The state was very generous (my opinion) with its tax credit. In my >>> application form, I told the state that my Xebra had an *onboard *charging >>> system, which it does, and which I thought might qualify the Xebra for the >>> second half of the tax credit. The Oregon credit is one half for the >>> vehicle, one half for a charging system (if any), for a possible total of >>> $1,500. But since the cost of the Xebra included the cost of the charging >>> system, I had no way to split out the respective amounts for vehicle vs. >>> charging system. The state gave me a $1,250 rebate, out of the possible >>> $1,500. I thought that was very fair, given that I could show no proof of >>> the amount of the additional fee for the charger. I had figured that they >>> might just credit me with the first $750, as I had not purchased a >>> stand-alone charger. >>> >>> Take a good look through the state Energy Dept?s site, click on the link >>> that pops open the PDF form, and print it. It?s under the heading on the >>> right side called ?*Alternative Fuel Vehicles or Charging/Fueling >>> Systems?; *ignore the link to ?Hybrid Vehicle Tax Credits?--the Xebra is >>> not a hybrid. [The Energy Dept considers electricity an ?alternative fuel,? >>> though I despise that term for electrics.] If you still have trouble >>> getting to the form, let me know and I?ll try to help. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Philip Kollas >>> ===== >>> >>> >>> On 10/4/09 12:00 PM, "oeva-list-request at oeva.org" < >>> oeva-list-request at oeva.org> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Today's Topics: >>>> >>>> 1. Re: Cash for clunkers item (cje at hevanet.com) >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> Message: 1 >>>> Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 15:21:10 GMT >>>> From: cje at hevanet.com >>>> Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Cash for clunkers item >>>> To: "Joanne Daschel" , >>>> Message-ID: <200910041521.n94FLAF5010943 at broadway.hevanet.com> >>>> >>>>> Hope we can get back to electric vehicle information! 1980 Electravan >>>>> owner Joanne Daschel, Lincoln City OR >>>> >>>> Okay, let's! I bought a new Xebra this spring. I'm pretty sure I get a >>>> fed and state credit for it, and I've been kinda hunting around. I find >>>> some conflicting stuff -- some sites say I get one, some say I don't. >>>> The Oregon Energy Department website is about useless, and my emails go >>>> unanswered. I think I found the federal tax form on the web. Anyone >>>> know for sure? >>>> >>>> Curt Erickson >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Oeva-list mailing list >>> Oeva-list at oeva.org >>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list >>> >>> >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091004/2d43ef0e/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 22:58:32 -0700 > From: patrick0101 at gmail.com > Subject: [Oeva-list] Stolen EV Cycle > To: OEVA > Message-ID: > <8c28d7b50910042258q61b99819g77782f7ac361e595 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Something to keep in mind at the many EVents (and meetings) where we show > our vehicles: as EV demand increases, sadly, so does the their value to > thieves. > > http://green.autoblog.com/2009/09/30/stolen-zero-s-swiped-from-fuel-promotiona > l-tour/ > > Regards, > Pat > If going without is not an option, go efficient =D~ > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091004/3f912204/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 11:10:50 -0700 > From: "Myles Twete" > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Stolen EV Cycle > To: , "'OEVA'" > Message-ID: <004601ca45e7$2c4e2080$84ea6180$@net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > One day, EVs will become so commonplace that EV rallies and the OEVA itself > become as ho-hum as ordinary car club rallies. > > No more need for promoting, outreach, PR or advocacy and political support. > > Just folks getting together with similarly propelled vehicles. > > And the vehicles themselves won't be as targeted for theft as a 70's > Mustang. > > These are interesting times. > > > > -Myles > > > > > > From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On > Behalf Of patrick0101 at gmail.com > Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 10:59 PM > To: OEVA > Subject: [Oeva-list] Stolen EV Cycle > > > > Something to keep in mind at the many EVents (and meetings) where we show > our vehicles: as EV demand increases, sadly, so does the their value to > thieves. > > http://green.autoblog.com/2009/09/30/stolen-zero-s-swiped-from-fuel-promotio > nal-tour/ > > Regards, > Pat > If going without is not an option, go efficient =D~ > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091005/a14982c8/attachment.html > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Oeva-list mailing list > Oeva-list at oeva.org > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > > > End of Oeva-list Digest, Vol 72, Issue 9 > **************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091005/9e2d0bc6/attachment-0001.html From cje at hevanet.com Tue Oct 6 08:03:23 2009 From: cje at hevanet.com (Curt Erickson) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 07:03:23 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] lumeneo In-Reply-To: <02C11A76-A12E-47D9-9CE0-7EC92B1ADE8F@e-m-w.com> References: <87C85B6F-B786-4F2D-BAC6-886DD86E7156@e-m-w.com><8c28d7b50910022045j58177e23g9c0eb4ac1d182d@mail.gmail.com> <02C11A76-A12E-47D9-9CE0-7EC92B1ADE8F@e-m-w.com> Message-ID: <442D37DEB2E44C2C9144DA7DCBDF5A24@CurtPC> Hahaha.. I guess I'm just too used to ZAP and their constantly "soon-to-be-here" miracles.. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Benson To: patrick0101 at gmail.com Cc: OEVA Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 10:58 PM Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] lumeneo I saw it at a green transpo expo here in France, along with with a tiny Renault about the size of a smart car. Both of them looked pretty sweet. jrab On Oct 3, 2009, at 5:45 AM, patrick0101 at gmail.com wrote: http://green.autoblog.com/2009/07/18/report-french-railroad-invests-in-lumeneo/ On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 9:28 PM, Curt Erickson wrote: Looks like V A P O R W A R E to me.. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Benson" To: "OEVA" Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 10:38 PM Subject: [Oeva-list] lumeneo > Anyone seen this from France? http://lumeneo.fr/ > > What's going on with the Tango? Looks like competition. > > JRAB > _______________________________________________ > Oeva-list mailing list > Oeva-list at oeva.org > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > > _______________________________________________ Oeva-list mailing list Oeva-list at oeva.org http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list _______________________________________________ Oeva-list mailing list Oeva-list at oeva.org http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Oeva-list mailing list Oeva-list at oeva.org http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091006/88e76367/attachment.html From john.p.christian at intel.com Tue Oct 6 07:47:14 2009 From: john.p.christian at intel.com (Christian, John P) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 07:47:14 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] OEVA monthly meeting - Very exciting! Message-ID: <45A9EFC6A9A30842970AD2DE50D9887403A4EC8AC7@azsmsx501.amr.corp.intel.com> Greetings all, The board has been hard at work lining up speakers for our monthly meetings and October's will be great. We have presentations from OpConnect and Arcimoto. Please come early and see all the great EV cars and meet the folks who own them. Also, I will be looking to meet each of you and find out what you like about the group and how we can make it fun. Thank you, John Christian OEVA Chair Our meetings are held on the second Thursday of every month (except Dec.) in downtown Portland at The World Trade Center, on the corner of SW Salmon and 1st Street. See the Yahoo Map or WTC Map. (A backup map is also available.) 7pm - 7:30, Socializing, Car show and tell 7:30 - 9pm, Meeting PGE provides outlets for recharging your vehicle, so bring your EV if you have one. Here is a brief description of the presenters and their offerings: The OpConnect EVCS charging stations is manufactured by Optimization Technologies, Inc., of Beaverton. The OpConnect stations are built around Optimization Technologies' innovative technology now being used in commercial jets. The stations can serve up to four vehicles at a time and support 120v and 240v charging. The OpConnect stations feature time-of-day charging capabilities, SMS and e-mail messages when battery charging is complete, and other cool features. The OpConnect stations also have an open-access system that allows the charging station owner to customize how access to electricity and the parking space is controlled. You can also visit us on the web at www.opconnect.com. Sincerely, Nathan Isaacs Manager, Business Development Optimization Technologies www.opconnect.com (503) 690-4475 x 16 (503) 810-7013 mobile Also, the VP of Marketing from Eugene's Arcimoto will be showing their just released car the Pulse. Come early and see it on display. EV startup Arcimoto has just unveiled their Pulse three-wheeled, tandem two-passenger electric car. It runs on lead-acid batteries charging on 110V in 6-8 hours and delivers a range of 50-100 miles. The extra helping of enviro-nerdiness comes standard. The new EV entry is planned for production in Eugene, Oregon and delivery start in late 2010 (which is when everybody is pegging their EV/super green car deliveries) with a planned list price under $20,000. That price is remarkably lower than most announced EV offerings mainly because the company is using tried and true lead-acid batteries rather than a more exotic chemistry with hefty development costs. Motivation comes from a DC motor able to deliver 80 lb-ft of torque with a top speed of 55 MPH. Katie Wilson-Hamaker VP Marketing Arcimoto 544 Blair Blvd. Eugene, Oregon 541-683-6293 [http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/jalopnik/2009/09/Arcimoto_Pulse_1_01.jpg] John P. Christian OEVA Chair (503) 712-8147 - desk (503) 704-2155 - mobile -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091006/d16dd6c6/attachment.html From jerkyman611 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 6 19:14:03 2009 From: jerkyman611 at yahoo.com (Tony Tyler) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 19:14:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Oeva-list] Electric bicycles Message-ID: <785960.39715.qm@web55706.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi group I don't post much so here goes.? I just recently bought a mtn bide from goodwell 100 bucks bike looked brand new.? A lousy job of putting it together otherwise it was a brand new bike.? I have been looking for alternative transportation that does not require a drivers license, and not use any gaseoline at all.? I anounced a couple of years ago a war on opec here is my less than 1000 dollar entry.? I bought a conversion kit from a dealer in vancouver wa found him on Craigs list the kit was very non specific but had a lot of brackets and nuts and bolts and not a clue how or where any of them went.? They have since posted a 20 page how to on the electric kit.? I wound up paying them 200 bucks in labor to install it for me I have several health issues that would not let me spend a lot of time on it.? Heck I was whipped anyway.? I am a 6' 220 guy and the motor will pull any hill in tigard that I have found anyway the more you pedal the more miles you can get I can comfortably travel to beaverton for instance the charging time? is 6 to 8 hours so I bought the 2nd battery as a back up.? anybody interested in this opec free project can come over and see it my phone is 503 384 8350.? I can't drive I am 64 with a bum leg bad heart and a few others such but not limeted to asthma so I find something that helps keep me in shape as well and get me places is well worth the 800 I have into it.? OH I also can get it in and out of the bus rack on trimet need help with the hook on the max Tony Tyler -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091006/6d20e982/attachment.html From matwete at comcast.net Tue Oct 6 22:09:44 2009 From: matwete at comcast.net (Myles Twete) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 22:09:44 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] 1921 Milburn For Sale In-Reply-To: <785960.39715.qm@web55706.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <785960.39715.qm@web55706.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005d01ca470c$626fbc70$274f3550$@net> Not mine, but there's a fine 1921 Milburn for sale in Florida: http://www.milburn.us/tom-henry1921.htm $42k is the asking price It's fully restored.I saw it in June. If seriously interested, let me know and I'll send contact info. -mt From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of Tony Tyler Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 7:14 PM To: oeva-list at oeva.org Subject: [Oeva-list] Electric bicycles Hi group I don't post much so here goes. I just recently bought a mtn bide from goodwell 100 bucks bike looked brand new. A lousy job of putting it together otherwise it was a brand new bike. I have been looking for alternative transportation that does not require a drivers license, and not use any gaseoline at all. I anounced a couple of years ago a war on opec here is my less than 1000 dollar entry. I bought a conversion kit from a dealer in vancouver wa found him on Craigs list the kit was very non specific but had a lot of brackets and nuts and bolts and not a clue how or where any of them went. They have since posted a 20 page how to on the electric kit. I wound up paying them 200 bucks in labor to install it for me I have several health issues that would not let me spend a lot of time on it. Heck I was whipped anyway. I am a 6' 220 guy and the motor will pull any hill in tigard that I have found anyway the more you pedal the more miles you can get I can comfortably travel to beaverton for instance the charging time is 6 to 8 hours so I bought the 2nd battery as a back up. anybody interested in this opec free project can come over and see it my phone is 503 384 8350. I can't drive I am 64 with a bum leg bad heart and a few others such but not limeted to asthma so I find something that helps keep me in shape as well and get me places is well worth the 800 I have into it. OH I also can get it in and out of the bus rack on trimet need help with the hook on the max Tony Tyler -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091006/4bdb59ca/attachment.html From gfifield at onlinenw.com Wed Oct 7 18:42:04 2009 From: gfifield at onlinenw.com (gfifield at onlinenw.com) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 18:42:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Oeva-list] The Electric Delorean Project In-Reply-To: <45A9EFC6A9A30842970AD2DE50D9887403A4EC8AC7@azsmsx501.amr.corp.intel.c om> References: <45A9EFC6A9A30842970AD2DE50D9887403A4EC8AC7@azsmsx501.amr.corp.intel.com> Message-ID: <2d5b0e6390d5e6bdfa20dad3bd3a3073.squirrel@mail.onlinenw.com> The Electric Delorean Project http://www.jameco.com/jameco/pressroom/msdelorean.html?emc=el&m=510594&l=23&v=18f41dd6b1 From gfifield at onlinenw.com Wed Oct 7 19:01:49 2009 From: gfifield at onlinenw.com (gfifield at onlinenw.com) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 19:01:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Oeva-list] The Electric Delorean Project shifting gears In-Reply-To: <2d5b0e6390d5e6bdfa20dad3bd3a3073.squirrel@mail.onlinenw.com> References: <45A9EFC6A9A30842970AD2DE50D9887403A4EC8AC7@azsmsx501.amr.corp.intel.com> <2d5b0e6390d5e6bdfa20dad3bd3a3073.squirrel@mail.onlinenw.com> Message-ID: 85 MPH http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCwXfqua84k From AlphaWaveE at aol.com Thu Oct 8 07:55:49 2009 From: AlphaWaveE at aol.com (AlphaWaveE at aol.com) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 10:55:49 EDT Subject: [Oeva-list] (no subject) Message-ID: Nissan land glider, very cool. _http://www.gizmag.com/nissanland-glider-car-motorcycle-electric-tokyo-motor -show/13064/?utm_source=Gizmag+Subscribers&utm_campaign=5726a0852b-UA-223536 0-4&utm_medium=email_ (http://www.gizmag.com/nissanland-glider-car-motorcycle-electric-tokyo-motor-show/13064/?utm_source=Gizmag+Subscribers&utm_campaig n=5726a0852b-UA-2235360-4&utm_medium=email) I think that is a pretty nice body style, though I would have chosen a more aerodynamic tail end. I bet that has pretty good range and performance though. wade -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091008/de5bb5e1/attachment.html From theboarddoctor at yahoo.com Thu Oct 8 16:51:48 2009 From: theboarddoctor at yahoo.com (Rob Russo) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 16:51:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Oeva-list] EV conversion Message-ID: <478926.71670.qm@web57007.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Help, Is there any place in the Portland area that does EV conversions? I have been wanting to do this for several years, but am always met with too many obstacles and lack of information. I have a '92 metro 4-door that has 195,000 mi. on the gas engine that finally gave out. The chassis is in perfect condition. Thanks for any suggestions. -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091008/0a886325/attachment.html From gary.graunke at intel.com Fri Oct 9 08:05:44 2009 From: gary.graunke at intel.com (Graunke, Gary) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 08:05:44 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] EV conversion In-Reply-To: <478926.71670.qm@web57007.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <478926.71670.qm@web57007.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9662F248D13E8C45B097A77F005E97293DF9AC4B@orsmsx503.amr.corp.intel.com> Rob, Just as it is more expensive to buy a hand-built car, conversions are currently somewhat expensive unless you have the time to invest or find another source of cheap labor. It's hard to become a commercial supplier, since one needs to recertify these vehicles (crash testing) if you develop or significantly modify a vehicle in quantity. However, this is America (vs EU), and you can do it yourself, even if all work is done with hired labor. See the EAA flyer at http://www.electricauto.org/Flyers/index.html#Conversions It has much more information and books, videos, etc. I would check into a kit from places like www.electroauto.com. I built mine from parts from Victor locally at www.metricmind.com . The kit means that most of the expensive engineering and fabrication has already been done. A middle school librarian put one together in 2 months of spare time. I hired Victor at metric mind to design my adaptor plate and coupler shaft. I had my transmission measured by Turk Mfg in Hillsboro, another outfit actually CNC milled the plate, and American Gear in Portland made the coupler shaft. All this was somewhat expensive, and a kit would be cheaper. All the planning is done, and it's mostly a bolt-on job assembling the components. I spent about a year of spare time on my car. Six months on the conversion proper, and another 3 making my batteries from commodity (mass-produced) power tool batteries (nowadays you can just buy even advanced LiPO4 batteries, but check around first for someone else that has used the particular battery you are considering). I started with old but good AGM lead batteries-Hawker Genesis that the drag racers often used. Following Bill Dube www.killacycle.com I switched to A123 LiFePO4 batteries to get higher power and 6 times the range per pound of batteries. Caution: Li Ion cells with Cobalt are best left to the pros-they require serious engineering and testing for safety. Be sure to get a some sort of battery management system to shut of the charger to prevent overcharging of individual batteries (or even cell level if you can do it). There should be a fairly complete kit for the geo-it is a popular conversion vehicle. Gary ________________________________ From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of Rob Russo Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 4:52 PM To: oeva-list at oeva.org Subject: [Oeva-list] EV conversion Help, Is there any place in the Portland area that does EV conversions? I have been wanting to do this for several years, but am always met with too many obstacles and lack of information. I have a '92 metro 4-door that has 195,000 mi. on the gas engine that finally gave out. The chassis is in perfect condition. Thanks for any suggestions. -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091009/665ecdde/attachment.html From glassphoto at gmail.com Fri Oct 9 11:17:42 2009 From: glassphoto at gmail.com (Micheal Drewry) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 11:17:42 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] EV Conversion for sale... Message-ID: <43e1e6a70910091117p4a706fd5ie7b70ba40814540d@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, I hate to do this but I am selling my 1993 Saturn SL2 EV Conversion. All the component details can be seen here: http://www.evalbum.com/preview.php?vid=1371 Photos and some notes I made during the project can be seen here: http://sites.google.com/site/glassphoto2/saturnev The car is complete and working. All my components were ordered from Electro Auto. There is only one problem with the car currently; the batteries need to be replaced. They do not have many miles on them but all the charger problems I had in the past (bad Russco charger) seem to have zonked them. I am currently going about 8-9 miles/charge but was in the 35 miles/charge range befor all the problems with the charger started. But the old charger is gone and the new one (PFC-20) is in and working well. New Lead Acid batteries will run about $2300 and a Li Ion set around $5-6000 (I think, have not done a lot of research into these). Besides all the EV work, it has new tires, a new clutch and new springs (saved the old ones in case you want to go with Li Ion batteries as those are much lighter) and shocks. The tires are a lower rolling resistance tire. The windows have also been tinted a little. I also have another 1993 Saturn you can have too. It is identical to the EV except it is automatic, and blue (the EV is white). But, with these cars getting harder to find, and the EV components lasting so long, having extra parts might be useful. This Saturn is working OK. I had planned to strip out all useful parts when it dies, but it is still running. I'll also include all the tools, engine hoist, extra cables, parts, factory manuals, etc. I gathered along the way. I'm asking $15,000 OBO. Please contact me if you are interested or have any questions. Mike Drewry glassphoto at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091009/8d863488/attachment.html From chris.hansen at intel.com Fri Oct 9 11:21:42 2009 From: chris.hansen at intel.com (Hansen, Chris) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 11:21:42 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] EV conversion In-Reply-To: <9662F248D13E8C45B097A77F005E97293DF9AC4B@orsmsx503.amr.corp.intel.com> References: <478926.71670.qm@web57007.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <9662F248D13E8C45B097A77F005E97293DF9AC4B@orsmsx503.amr.corp.intel.com> Message-ID: <435959ED7AEDF04EB5EB69F30857181303B01A0189@azsmsx501.amr.corp.intel.com> Before starting the conversion, either by kit or by putting the various pieces together yourself, you have to decide on the cost vs performance you are shooting for. Otherwise you risk being either be disappointed or bankrupt by the result. In any case, be ready to do a lot of the work yourself or expect to pay 2-3x the material costs for the conversion. The first place to start in my opinion is getting a basic EV conversion book and read it cover-to-cover. I like this one: http://www.amazon.com/Build-Your-Own-Electric-Vehicle/dp/0071543732/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1255111631&sr=8-1 . Then spend a month or two reading online forums like EVDL or DIY Electric Forums. The OEVA website points to these and many others. Even if you decide to have the conversion done for you turn-key, knowing the basics is important to get what you want and are expecting. My conversion goal was cheapness, moderate performance and mostly to learn from the experience. I was able to convert my car to electric for approx $4000. I skimped on everything except the motor and the (lead-acid) batteries. I did it myself with a little machine shop help. It took 4 months, only working evenings in my garage. And a keg of Widmer Halo IPA :) Chris From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of Graunke, Gary Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 8:06 AM To: Rob Russo; oeva-list at oeva.org Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] EV conversion Rob, Just as it is more expensive to buy a hand-built car, conversions are currently somewhat expensive unless you have the time to invest or find another source of cheap labor. It's hard to become a commercial supplier, since one needs to recertify these vehicles (crash testing) if you develop or significantly modify a vehicle in quantity. However, this is America (vs EU), and you can do it yourself, even if all work is done with hired labor. See the EAA flyer at http://www.electricauto.org/Flyers/index.html#Conversions It has much more information and books, videos, etc. I would check into a kit from places like www.electroauto.com. I built mine from parts from Victor locally at www.metricmind.com . The kit means that most of the expensive engineering and fabrication has already been done. A middle school librarian put one together in 2 months of spare time. I hired Victor at metric mind to design my adaptor plate and coupler shaft. I had my transmission measured by Turk Mfg in Hillsboro, another outfit actually CNC milled the plate, and American Gear in Portland made the coupler shaft. All this was somewhat expensive, and a kit would be cheaper. All the planning is done, and it's mostly a bolt-on job assembling the components. I spent about a year of spare time on my car. Six months on the conversion proper, and another 3 making my batteries from commodity (mass-produced) power tool batteries (nowadays you can just buy even advanced LiPO4 batteries, but check around first for someone else that has used the particular battery you are considering). I started with old but good AGM lead batteries-Hawker Genesis that the drag racers often used. Following Bill Dube www.killacycle.com I switched to A123 LiFePO4 batteries to get higher power and 6 times the range per pound of batteries. Caution: Li Ion cells with Cobalt are best left to the pros-they require serious engineering and testing for safety. Be sure to get a some sort of battery management system to shut of the charger to prevent overcharging of individual batteries (or even cell level if you can do it). There should be a fairly complete kit for the geo-it is a popular conversion vehicle. Gary ________________________________ From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of Rob Russo Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 4:52 PM To: oeva-list at oeva.org Subject: [Oeva-list] EV conversion Help, Is there any place in the Portland area that does EV conversions? I have been wanting to do this for several years, but am always met with too many obstacles and lack of information. I have a '92 metro 4-door that has 195,000 mi. on the gas engine that finally gave out. The chassis is in perfect condition. Thanks for any suggestions. -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091009/1997b15f/attachment-0001.html From theboarddoctor at yahoo.com Fri Oct 9 18:45:20 2009 From: theboarddoctor at yahoo.com (Rob Russo) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 18:45:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Oeva-list] Ev Batteries Message-ID: <170760.80443.qm@web57006.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Thanks to all who responded.? I guess my main concern and?probably the first decision I have to make is the type and voltage of the battery pack.?I want to avoid lead acid batteries because it seems counterintuitive to add all that weight to such a light vehicle. Is this battery pack practical for my application?: http://www.lifebatt.com/HPSpacks.asp?. Are there any alternative sources for this type of battery? Thanks, -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091009/bc653a9b/attachment.html From gary.graunke at intel.com Sat Oct 10 09:46:37 2009 From: gary.graunke at intel.com (Graunke, Gary) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 09:46:37 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] Ev Batteries In-Reply-To: <170760.80443.qm@web57006.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <170760.80443.qm@web57006.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9662F248D13E8C45B097A77F005E97293E00872D@orsmsx503.amr.corp.intel.com> Looking at the Sandia report, these batteries should be great in an EV. It doesn't answer the question of quality of manufacturing, but covers everything else. Our experience with A123's LiFePO4 was that 1-2% have a higher self-discharge rate, but they are otherwise very consistent and meet and exceed specs in every way. These also meet or exceed specs in every way, according to the authors. To deal with these kind of variations, I would suggest the 12V 40AH to 80AH batteries (maybe even the 120AH if you have a pickup truck), so you have 4 to 12 cells in parallel. The 26 to 34 lb batteries are easy to life by hand if you need to work on them. The AH depends on your desired range and/or $ you have to invest. The low temperature performance is better than lead-acid as well, losing only 25% at freezing (about our low in Portland) or 34% if you live in Bend. The high power of the cells helps the low temperature performance, however, compared to lead, and you still can put in battery heaters or an insulated battery box if this is a concern. An insulated battery box would also help if you have a catastrophic cell failure with 160C temperatures. (Always vent the box to the outside (not cabin) for this reason, though it is not critical). There is no high temperature concern (life with most other batteries!). Buying the batteries in this package makes it difficult (if not impractical) to do individual cell group management, but it sure is convenient! However, it may well be that monitoring the battery voltage at 12V will be good enough (that is what we are forced to do with lead acid batteries in any case). (The issue is that one should slow down/shut off the charger when a cell reaches maximum voltage to avoid overcharging it). The self-discharge rates on a cell mean that you may want to charge individual cells (or cell groups if they are in parallel) to keep them in balance. I do this manually right now every 10 months or so with A123 cells, but will eventually put in equalizers to do this continuously. Bottom line-I would have used batteries like this in my Insight had they been available 3 years ago. Let us know how much they want for them. Other sources are thunder sky (though they have not met specs in their early offerings), peak battery (K2). I am running K2 batteries in my plug-in Prius from EEtrex-they have less (but still adequate) power than A123's, but 30% more energy per same size and weight cell. It is important to assess the quality of the batteries. It helps to know someone who has been using them, but this is difficult with new batteries. The Sandia report is very helpful in this regard, but there is always a concern that they "cherry-picked" the cells that they sent for testing (rather than a random sample from their production). Keep us informed with your progress! Gary ________________________________ From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of Rob Russo Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 6:45 PM To: oeva-list at oeva.org Subject: [Oeva-list] Ev Batteries Thanks to all who responded. I guess my main concern and probably the first decision I have to make is the type and voltage of the battery pack. I want to avoid lead acid batteries because it seems counterintuitive to add all that weight to such a light vehicle. Is this battery pack practical for my application?: http://www.lifebatt.com/HPSpacks.asp . Are there any alternative sources for this type of battery? Thanks, -Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091010/790890ea/attachment.html From richard at hamje.net Sat Oct 10 16:16:22 2009 From: richard at hamje.net (Richard Hamje) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 16:16:22 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] EV Batteries References: Message-ID: A local-ish source for the Thunder Sky batteries is www.evcomponents.com They are in Lacey, WA and you can save money by picking the batteries up at their warehouse. They carry three lines of LiFePO4, and several battery management systems. I bought the batteries and BMS for my conversion from them. It's taken more than two months for them to arrive - I'm supposed to pick them up this week. These folks have the best prices I could find anywhere. Be aware that they charge separately for the ocean shipping from China, but it's still a good deal. I am using the 60AH batteries as I am more concerned with size and weight (I need 90 of them for 288V) than range. If you are doing a 96 Volt conversion, you'll only need 30 and could go with the 220AH if you really want range. They make them in a variety of ratings. The only other source for Thunder Sky that I could find was Jungle Motors in San Diego, but their prices were 50% more. Good luck! Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 12:00 PM Subject: Oeva-list Digest, Vol 72, Issue 15 > Send Oeva-list mailing list submissions to > oeva-list at oeva.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > oeva-list-request at oeva.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > oeva-list-owner at oeva.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Oeva-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Ev Batteries (Rob Russo) > 2. Re: Ev Batteries (Graunke, Gary) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 18:45:20 -0700 (PDT) > From: Rob Russo > Subject: [Oeva-list] Ev Batteries > To: oeva-list at oeva.org > Message-ID: <170760.80443.qm at web57006.mail.re3.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Thanks to all who responded.? > I guess my main concern and?probably the first decision I have to make is > the type and voltage of the battery pack.?I want to avoid lead acid > batteries because it seems counterintuitive to add all that weight to such > a light vehicle. > Is this battery pack practical for my application?: > http://www.lifebatt.com/HPSpacks.asp?. Are there any alternative sources > for this type of battery? > > Thanks, > -Rob > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091009/bc653a9b/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 09:46:37 -0700 > From: "Graunke, Gary" > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Ev Batteries > To: Rob Russo , "oeva-list at oeva.org" > > Cc: "Wallace, Paul" > Message-ID: > <9662F248D13E8C45B097A77F005E97293E00872D at orsmsx503.amr.corp.intel.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Looking at the Sandia report, these batteries should be great in an EV. It > doesn't answer the question of quality of manufacturing, but covers > everything else. > Our experience with A123's LiFePO4 was that 1-2% have a higher > self-discharge rate, but they are otherwise very consistent and meet and > exceed specs in every way. > These also meet or exceed specs in every way, according to the authors. > > To deal with these kind of variations, I would suggest the 12V 40AH to > 80AH batteries (maybe even the 120AH if you have a pickup truck), so you > have 4 to 12 cells in parallel. > The 26 to 34 lb batteries are easy to life by hand if you need to work on > them. The AH depends on your desired range and/or $ you have to invest. > > The low temperature performance is better than lead-acid as well, losing > only 25% at freezing (about our low in Portland) or 34% if you live in > Bend. The high power of the cells helps the low temperature performance, > however, compared to lead, and you still can put in battery heaters or an > insulated battery box if this is a concern. An insulated battery box would > also help if you have a catastrophic cell failure with 160C temperatures. > (Always vent the box to the outside (not cabin) for this reason, though it > is not critical). > There is no high temperature concern (life with most other batteries!). > > Buying the batteries in this package makes it difficult (if not > impractical) to do individual cell group management, but it sure is > convenient! However, it may well be that monitoring the battery voltage > at 12V will be good enough (that is what we are forced to do with lead > acid batteries in any case). (The issue is that one should slow down/shut > off the charger when a cell reaches maximum voltage to avoid overcharging > it). The self-discharge rates on a cell mean that you may want to charge > individual cells (or cell groups if they are in parallel) to keep them in > balance. I do this manually right now every 10 months or so with A123 > cells, but will eventually put in equalizers to do this continuously. > > Bottom line-I would have used batteries like this in my Insight had they > been available 3 years ago. Let us know how much they want for them. > > Other sources are thunder sky (though they have not met specs in their > early offerings), peak battery (K2). I am running K2 batteries in my > plug-in Prius from EEtrex-they have less (but still adequate) power than > A123's, but 30% more energy per same size and weight cell. > > It is important to assess the quality of the batteries. It helps to know > someone who has been using them, but this is difficult with new batteries. > The Sandia report is very helpful in this regard, but there is always a > concern that they "cherry-picked" the cells that they sent for testing > (rather than a random sample from their production). > > Keep us informed with your progress! > > Gary > > ________________________________ > From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On > Behalf Of Rob Russo > Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 6:45 PM > To: oeva-list at oeva.org > Subject: [Oeva-list] Ev Batteries > > Thanks to all who responded. > I guess my main concern and probably the first decision I have to make is > the type and voltage of the battery pack. I want to avoid lead acid > batteries because it seems counterintuitive to add all that weight to such > a light vehicle. > Is this battery pack practical for my application?: > http://www.lifebatt.com/HPSpacks.asp . Are there any alternative sources > for this type of battery? > > Thanks, > -Rob > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091010/790890ea/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Oeva-list mailing list > Oeva-list at oeva.org > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > > > End of Oeva-list Digest, Vol 72, Issue 15 > ***************************************** > From citicar at no-url.com Sat Oct 10 17:04:10 2009 From: citicar at no-url.com (Oliver) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 17:04:10 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] Lightly used Interstate 6V deep cycle batteries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I was looking around for a couple 'lightly used' batteries to complete a '6-pack' of T-105's for my 36V CitiCar, and just purchased the 2 from a this ad: http://salem.craigslist.org/rvs/1401279881.html He also has 2 Interstate batteries for sale. They tested fine and are only 5-6 months old - $125 for the pair. Very reasonable person to deal with. They were used in an RV that he has re-configured. Cheers! -Oliver P.S. I have no personal interest in the above, just thought I would pass it along. From patrick0101 at gmail.com Sun Oct 11 09:07:03 2009 From: patrick0101 at gmail.com (patrick0101 at gmail.com) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 09:07:03 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] Long Tailpipe Message-ID: <8c28d7b50910110907n16cd3a58t3bf9b719e639784a@mail.gmail.com> EVs use electricity, so one of the arguments against them is that they move pollution from the tailpipe to the smokestack and they encourage mountain top removal... These have been debunked, EV pollute far less and there is off-peak surplus generation that could power 40-60% of US cars. However, rather than arguing the numbers, there is an even better solution. If you live in Oregon and own a home, SolarCity is now offering solar leases. You get solar panels on your house and pay exactly the same rate as you are currently paying your utility for standard grid power. This is the same deal (and from the same company) that Intel used when they put solar panels on the Jones Farm 4 building. http://celticsolar.blogspot.com/2009/10/solar-for-free.html Regards, Pat With Great Power, Comes Great Current and High Voltage =D~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091011/b03bb5b6/attachment.html From theboarddoctor at yahoo.com Sun Oct 11 19:33:21 2009 From: theboarddoctor at yahoo.com (Rob Russo) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 19:33:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Oeva-list] EV Batteries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <156615.86482.qm@web57002.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Richard, Thanks for the info. I will check them out. -Rob ________________________________ From: "oeva-list-request at oeva.org" To: oeva-list at oeva.org Sent: Sun, October 11, 2009 12:00:03 PM Subject: Oeva-list Digest, Vol 72, Issue 16 Send Oeva-list mailing list submissions to ??? oeva-list at oeva.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit ??? http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ??? oeva-list-request at oeva.org You can reach the person managing the list at ??? oeva-list-owner at oeva.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Oeva-list digest..." Today's Topics: ? 1. Re: EV Batteries (Richard Hamje) ? 2. Lightly used Interstate 6V deep cycle batteries (Oliver) ? 3. Long Tailpipe (patrick0101 at gmail.com) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 16:16:22 -0700 From: "Richard Hamje" Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] EV Batteries To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; ??? reply-type=original A local-ish source for the Thunder Sky batteries is www.evcomponents.com They are in Lacey, WA and you can save money by picking the batteries up at their warehouse.? They carry three lines of LiFePO4, and several battery management systems.? I bought the batteries and BMS for my conversion from them.? It's taken more than two months for them to arrive - I'm supposed to pick them up this week.? These folks have the best prices I could find anywhere.? Be aware that they charge separately for the ocean shipping from China, but it's still a good deal. I am using the 60AH batteries as I am more concerned with size and weight (I need 90 of them for 288V) than range.? If you are doing a 96 Volt conversion, you'll only need 30 and could go with the 220AH if you really want range.? They make them in a variety of ratings. The only other source for Thunder Sky that I could find was Jungle Motors in San Diego, but their prices were 50% more. Good luck! Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 12:00 PM Subject: Oeva-list Digest, Vol 72, Issue 15 > Send Oeva-list mailing list submissions to > oeva-list at oeva.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > oeva-list-request at oeva.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > oeva-list-owner at oeva.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Oeva-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > >? 1. Ev Batteries (Rob Russo) >? 2. Re: Ev Batteries (Graunke, Gary) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 18:45:20 -0700 (PDT) > From: Rob Russo > Subject: [Oeva-list] Ev Batteries > To: oeva-list at oeva.org > Message-ID: <170760.80443.qm at web57006.mail.re3.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Thanks to all who responded.? > I guess my main concern and?probably the first decision I have to make is > the type and voltage of the battery pack.?I want to avoid lead acid > batteries because it seems counterintuitive to add all that weight to such > a light vehicle. > Is this battery pack practical for my application?: > http://www.lifebatt.com/HPSpacks.asp?. Are there any alternative sources > for this type of battery? > > Thanks, > -Rob > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091009/bc653a9b/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 09:46:37 -0700 > From: "Graunke, Gary" > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Ev Batteries > To: Rob Russo , "oeva-list at oeva.org" > > Cc: "Wallace, Paul" > Message-ID: > <9662F248D13E8C45B097A77F005E97293E00872D at orsmsx503.amr.corp.intel.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Looking at the Sandia report, these batteries should be great in an EV. It > doesn't answer the question of quality of manufacturing, but covers > everything else. > Our experience with A123's LiFePO4 was that 1-2% have a higher > self-discharge rate, but they are otherwise very consistent and meet and > exceed specs in every way. > These also meet or exceed specs in every way, according to the authors. > > To deal with these kind of variations, I would suggest the 12V 40AH to > 80AH batteries (maybe even the 120AH if you have a pickup truck), so you > have 4 to 12 cells in parallel. > The 26 to 34 lb batteries are easy to life by hand if you need to work on > them. The AH depends on your desired range and/or $ you have to invest. > > The low temperature performance is better than lead-acid as well, losing > only 25% at freezing (about our low in Portland) or 34% if you live in > Bend. The high power of the cells helps the low temperature performance, > however, compared to lead, and you still can put in battery heaters or an > insulated battery box if this is a concern. An insulated battery box would > also help if you have a catastrophic cell failure with 160C temperatures. > (Always vent the box to the outside (not cabin) for this reason, though it > is not critical). > There is no high temperature concern (life with most other batteries!). > > Buying the batteries in this package makes it difficult (if not > impractical) to do individual cell group management, but it sure is > convenient!? However, it may well be that monitoring the battery voltage > at 12V will be good enough (that is what we are forced to do with lead > acid batteries in any case). (The issue is that one should slow down/shut > off the charger when a cell reaches maximum voltage to avoid overcharging > it). The self-discharge rates on a cell mean that you may want to charge > individual cells (or cell groups if they are in parallel) to keep them in > balance. I do this manually right now every 10 months or so with A123 > cells, but will eventually put in equalizers to do this continuously. > > Bottom line-I would have used batteries like this in my Insight had they > been available 3 years ago. Let us know how much they want for them. > > Other sources are thunder sky (though they have not met specs in their > early offerings), peak battery (K2). I am running K2 batteries in my > plug-in Prius from EEtrex-they have less (but still adequate) power than > A123's, but 30% more energy per same size and weight cell. > > It is important to assess the quality of the batteries. It helps to know > someone who has been using them, but this is difficult with new batteries. > The Sandia report is very helpful in this regard, but there is always a > concern that they "cherry-picked" the cells that they sent for testing > (rather than a random sample from their production). > > Keep us informed with your progress! > > Gary > > ________________________________ > From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On > Behalf Of Rob Russo > Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 6:45 PM > To: oeva-list at oeva.org > Subject: [Oeva-list] Ev Batteries > > Thanks to all who responded. > I guess my main concern and probably the first decision I have to make is > the type and voltage of the battery pack. I want to avoid lead acid > batteries because it seems counterintuitive to add all that weight to such > a light vehicle. > Is this battery pack practical for my application?: > http://www.lifebatt.com/HPSpacks.asp . Are there any alternative sources > for this type of battery? > > Thanks, > -Rob > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091010/790890ea/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Oeva-list mailing list > Oeva-list at oeva.org > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > > > End of Oeva-list Digest, Vol 72, Issue 15 > ***************************************** > ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 17:04:10 -0700 From: "Oliver" Subject: [Oeva-list] Lightly used Interstate 6V deep cycle batteries To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain;??? charset="us-ascii" I was looking around for a couple 'lightly used' batteries to complete a '6-pack' of T-105's for my 36V CitiCar, and just purchased the 2 from a this ad: http://salem.craigslist.org/rvs/1401279881.html He also has 2 Interstate batteries for sale.? They tested fine and are only 5-6 months old - $125 for the pair.? Very reasonable person to deal with. They were used in an RV that he has re-configured. Cheers! -Oliver P.S.? I have no personal interest in the above, just thought I would pass it along. ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 09:07:03 -0700 From: patrick0101 at gmail.com Subject: [Oeva-list] Long Tailpipe To: OEVA Message-ID: ??? <8c28d7b50910110907n16cd3a58t3bf9b719e639784a at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" EVs use electricity, so one of the arguments against them is that they move pollution from the tailpipe to the smokestack and they encourage mountain top removal... These have been debunked, EV pollute far less and there is off-peak surplus generation that could power 40-60% of US cars. However, rather than arguing the numbers, there is an even better solution. If you live in Oregon and own a home, SolarCity is now offering solar leases. You get solar panels on your house and pay exactly the same rate as you are currently paying your utility for standard grid power. This is the same deal (and from the same company) that Intel used when they put solar panels on the Jones Farm 4 building. http://celticsolar.blogspot.com/2009/10/solar-for-free.html Regards, Pat With Great Power, Comes Great Current and High Voltage? =D~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091011/b03bb5b6/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Oeva-list mailing list Oeva-list at oeva.org http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list End of Oeva-list Digest, Vol 72, Issue 16 ***************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091011/7239ec0b/attachment-0001.html From paul.wallace at intel.com Mon Oct 12 07:22:43 2009 From: paul.wallace at intel.com (Paul Wallace) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 07:22:43 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] Ev Batteries In-Reply-To: <9662F248D13E8C45B097A77F005E97293E00872D@orsmsx503.amr.corp.intel.com> References: <170760.80443.qm@web57006.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <9662F248D13E8C45B097A77F005E97293E00872D@orsmsx503.amr.corp.intel.com> Message-ID: <4AD33BB3.9050700@intel.com> I'm just about to pick up a set of 96 100ah Sky Energy Li Ion cells from EV Components. I am also getting the BMS that they offer, which allows them to extend a 2 year warranty on the cells. The total package cost is just under $15k. The people at EV Components and their customers are seem to be having good results now with both the Sky Energy and the Thundersky cells. With the 2 year warranty, I feel that I should be covered for any infancy failures. I wasn't able to get IE to open the web page you sent this morning. I'll try again later with my Mac. Paul Wallace Graunke, Gary wrote: > Looking at the Sandia report, these batteries should be great in an EV. > It doesn?t answer the question of quality of manufacturing, but covers > everything else. > > Our experience with A123?s LiFePO4 was that 1-2% have a higher > self-discharge rate, but they are otherwise very consistent and meet and > exceed specs in every way. > > These also meet or exceed specs in every way, according to the authors. > > > > To deal with these kind of variations, I would suggest the 12V 40AH to > 80AH batteries (maybe even the 120AH if you have a pickup truck), so you > have 4 to 12 cells in parallel. > > The 26 to 34 lb batteries are easy to life by hand if you need to work > on them. The AH depends on your desired range and/or $ you have to invest. > > > > The low temperature performance is better than lead-acid as well, losing > only 25% at freezing (about our low in Portland) or 34% if you live in > Bend. The high power of the cells helps the low temperature performance, > however, compared to lead, and you still can put in battery heaters or > an insulated battery box if this is a concern. An insulated battery box > would also help if you have a catastrophic cell failure with 160C > temperatures. (Always vent the box to the outside (not cabin) for this > reason, though it is not critical). > > There is no high temperature concern (life with most other batteries!). > > > > Buying the batteries in this package makes it difficult (if not > impractical) to do individual cell group management, but it sure is > convenient! However, it may well be that monitoring the battery voltage > at 12V will be good enough (that is what we are forced to do with lead > acid batteries in any case). (The issue is that one should slow > down/shut off the charger when a cell reaches maximum voltage to avoid > overcharging it). The self-discharge rates on a cell mean that you may > want to charge individual cells (or cell groups if they are in parallel) > to keep them in balance. I do this manually right now every 10 months or > so with A123 cells, but will eventually put in equalizers to do this > continuously. > > > > Bottom line?I would have used batteries like this in my Insight had they > been available 3 years ago. Let us know how much they want for them. > > > > Other sources are thunder sky (though they have not met specs in their > early offerings), peak battery (K2). I am running K2 batteries in my > plug-in Prius from EEtrex?they have less (but still adequate) power than > A123?s, but 30% more energy per same size and weight cell. > > > > It is important to assess the quality of the batteries. It helps to know > someone who has been using them, but this is difficult with new > batteries. The Sandia report is very helpful in this regard, but there > is always a concern that they ?cherry-picked? the cells that they sent > for testing (rather than a random sample from their production). > > > > Keep us informed with your progress! > > > > Gary > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] > *On Behalf Of *Rob Russo > *Sent:* Friday, October 09, 2009 6:45 PM > *To:* oeva-list at oeva.org > *Subject:* [Oeva-list] Ev Batteries > > > > Thanks to all who responded. > > I guess my main concern and probably the first decision I have to make > is the type and voltage of the battery pack. I want to avoid lead acid > batteries because it seems counterintuitive to add all that weight to > such a light vehicle. > > Is this battery pack practical for my application?: > http://www.lifebatt.com/HPSpacks.asp . Are there any alternative sources > for this type of battery? > > > > Thanks, > > -Rob > > > > > > > From gfifield at onlinenw.com Mon Oct 12 10:26:57 2009 From: gfifield at onlinenw.com (gfifield at onlinenw.com) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 10:26:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Oeva-list] Ev Batteries In-Reply-To: <4AD33BB3.9050700@intel.com> References: <170760.80443.qm@web57006.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <9662F248D13E8C45B097A77F005E97293E00872D@orsmsx503.amr.corp.intel.com> <4AD33BB3.9050700@intel.com> Message-ID: Hi, I visited the website for LifeBatt.com They don't sell individual cells but sell in multiples of 12V packs. The RFQ page has the following statement: " NOTE: LiFeBATT does not sell individual Cells or sub-components! Please only fill out this RFQ for complete Plug & Play XPS Packs with On-Board Diagnostics, Battery Management Systems, Over & Under Voltage protection circuits and overall Battery Protection Modules." They provide the on-board diagnostics and BMS, etc. I suppose they will supply the protocol, or is it a closed system? Anyone know? Gene > I'm just about to pick up a set of 96 100ah Sky Energy Li Ion cells from > EV Components. I am also getting the BMS that they offer, which allows > them to extend a 2 year warranty on the cells. The total package cost > is just under $15k. The people at EV Components and their customers are > seem to be having good results now with both the Sky Energy and the > Thundersky cells. With the 2 year warranty, I feel that I should be > covered for any infancy failures. > > I wasn't able to get IE to open the web page you sent this morning. > I'll try again later with my Mac. > > Paul Wallace > > Graunke, Gary wrote: >> Looking at the Sandia report, these batteries should be great in an EV. >> It doesn?t answer the question of quality of manufacturing, but covers >> everything else. >> >> Our experience with A123?s LiFePO4 was that 1-2% have a higher >> self-discharge rate, but they are otherwise very consistent and meet and >> exceed specs in every way. >> >> These also meet or exceed specs in every way, according to the authors. >> >> >> >> To deal with these kind of variations, I would suggest the 12V 40AH to >> 80AH batteries (maybe even the 120AH if you have a pickup truck), so you >> have 4 to 12 cells in parallel. >> >> The 26 to 34 lb batteries are easy to life by hand if you need to work >> on them. The AH depends on your desired range and/or $ you have to >> invest. >> >> >> >> The low temperature performance is better than lead-acid as well, losing >> only 25% at freezing (about our low in Portland) or 34% if you live in >> Bend. The high power of the cells helps the low temperature performance, >> however, compared to lead, and you still can put in battery heaters or >> an insulated battery box if this is a concern. An insulated battery box >> would also help if you have a catastrophic cell failure with 160C >> temperatures. (Always vent the box to the outside (not cabin) for this >> reason, though it is not critical). >> >> There is no high temperature concern (life with most other batteries!). >> >> >> >> Buying the batteries in this package makes it difficult (if not >> impractical) to do individual cell group management, but it sure is >> convenient! However, it may well be that monitoring the battery voltage >> at 12V will be good enough (that is what we are forced to do with lead >> acid batteries in any case). (The issue is that one should slow >> down/shut off the charger when a cell reaches maximum voltage to avoid >> overcharging it). The self-discharge rates on a cell mean that you may >> want to charge individual cells (or cell groups if they are in parallel) >> to keep them in balance. I do this manually right now every 10 months or >> so with A123 cells, but will eventually put in equalizers to do this >> continuously. >> >> >> >> Bottom line?I would have used batteries like this in my Insight had they >> been available 3 years ago. Let us know how much they want for them. >> >> >> >> Other sources are thunder sky (though they have not met specs in their >> early offerings), peak battery (K2). I am running K2 batteries in my >> plug-in Prius from EEtrex?they have less (but still adequate) power than >> A123?s, but 30% more energy per same size and weight cell. >> >> >> >> It is important to assess the quality of the batteries. It helps to know >> someone who has been using them, but this is difficult with new >> batteries. The Sandia report is very helpful in this regard, but there >> is always a concern that they ?cherry-picked? the cells that they sent >> for testing (rather than a random sample from their production). >> >> >> >> Keep us informed with your progress! >> >> >> >> Gary >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> *From:* oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] >> *On Behalf Of *Rob Russo >> *Sent:* Friday, October 09, 2009 6:45 PM >> *To:* oeva-list at oeva.org >> *Subject:* [Oeva-list] Ev Batteries >> >> >> >> Thanks to all who responded. >> >> I guess my main concern and probably the first decision I have to make >> is the type and voltage of the battery pack. I want to avoid lead acid >> batteries because it seems counterintuitive to add all that weight to >> such a light vehicle. >> >> Is this battery pack practical for my application?: >> http://www.lifebatt.com/HPSpacks.asp . Are there any alternative sources >> for this type of battery? >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> -Rob >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Oeva-list mailing list > Oeva-list at oeva.org > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > From tim_kutscha at yahoo.com Mon Oct 12 17:44:06 2009 From: tim_kutscha at yahoo.com (Tim Kutscha) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 17:44:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Oeva-list] Fw: Iota Engineering contact In-Reply-To: <855061.25190.qm@web110511.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <233445BAA49B1B4DA88410094A4513674DFD6D@exchserv.iota.com> <855061.25190.qm@web110511.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <917087.31435.qm@web110509.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi All, I just received this e-mail from someone at IOTA engineering, maker of one of the DC-DC converters that I've seen in several electric vehicles. I'm forwarding it on just in case someone would like an inside contact at the company. Cheers, Tim ________________________________ From:Errin Tribble To: tim_kutscha at yahoo.com Sent: Mon, October 12, 2009 3:58:52 PM Subject: Iota Engineering Tim Iota is a manufacture of battery chargers and dc-dc converters for electric vehicles. I would like to send you some info on our products. Please check out our website and let me know if there would be some interest. Thanks. Errin Tribble Iota Engineering National Sales Manager 800-866-4682 x224 www.iotaengineering.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091012/63132339/attachment.html From gfifield at onlinenw.com Mon Oct 12 19:04:37 2009 From: gfifield at onlinenw.com (gfifield at onlinenw.com) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 19:04:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Oeva-list] Ev Batteries In-Reply-To: <4AD37E61.3070604@intel.com> References: <170760.80443.qm@web57006.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <9662F248D13E8C45B097A77F005E97293E00872D@orsmsx503.amr.corp.intel.com> <4AD33BB3.9050700@intel.com> <4AD37E61.3070604@intel.com> Message-ID: Hi Paul, Why not just fill out their quote form with your particular desired configuration and see what they come back with? I'd be curious to know if they will deal with individuals. Gene > Too bad they aren't offering the 12v modules in a 100ah version. to get > same total energy I'm going to have would requires 32 of the 80ah > modules, pushing the nominal pack voltage too high for most DC > controllers available today. Even my Zilla 1kehv limits out at about > 375vdc. AC controllers may go a bit higher, but the one I'll be using > limits at a voltage similar to the Zilla. Using the 120ah modules puts > the nominal pack voltage too low, making the current too high under > cruising conditions for standard chemistry Li Ion. I wasn't able to > find any technical data on max and sustained discharge currents on the > site. If they are similar to the A123 cells, then they will be able to > withstand higher sustained and max currents than the Sky Energy cells > I'll be using, making a lower voltage equivalent total energy pack > possible. The weight of the batteries is also interesting. The cells > I'm getting will be about 675lbs, while an equivalent pack of these > LifeBatts will be around 1300lbs. > > Paul > > gfifield at onlinenw.com wrote: >> Hi, >> I visited the website for LifeBatt.com >> They don't sell individual cells but sell in multiples of 12V packs. >> The RFQ page has the following statement: >> " NOTE: LiFeBATT does not sell individual Cells or sub-components! >> Please only fill out this RFQ for complete Plug & Play XPS Packs with >> On-Board Diagnostics, Battery Management Systems, Over & Under Voltage >> protection circuits and overall Battery Protection Modules." >> >> They provide the on-board diagnostics and BMS, etc. >> I suppose they will supply the protocol, or is it a closed system? >> Anyone know? >> >> Gene >>> I'm just about to pick up a set of 96 100ah Sky Energy Li Ion cells >>> from >>> EV Components. I am also getting the BMS that they offer, which allows >>> them to extend a 2 year warranty on the cells. The total package cost >>> is just under $15k. The people at EV Components and their customers >>> are >>> seem to be having good results now with both the Sky Energy and the >>> Thundersky cells. With the 2 year warranty, I feel that I should be >>> covered for any infancy failures. >>> >>> I wasn't able to get IE to open the web page you sent this morning. >>> I'll try again later with my Mac. >>> >>> Paul Wallace >>> >>> Graunke, Gary wrote: >>>> Looking at the Sandia report, these batteries should be great in an >>>> EV. >>>> It doesn?t answer the question of quality of manufacturing, but covers >>>> everything else. >>>> >>>> Our experience with A123?s LiFePO4 was that 1-2% have a higher >>>> self-discharge rate, but they are otherwise very consistent and meet >>>> and >>>> exceed specs in every way. >>>> >>>> These also meet or exceed specs in every way, according to the >>>> authors. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> To deal with these kind of variations, I would suggest the 12V 40AH to >>>> 80AH batteries (maybe even the 120AH if you have a pickup truck), so >>>> you >>>> have 4 to 12 cells in parallel. >>>> >>>> The 26 to 34 lb batteries are easy to life by hand if you need to work >>>> on them. The AH depends on your desired range and/or $ you have to >>>> invest. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The low temperature performance is better than lead-acid as well, >>>> losing >>>> only 25% at freezing (about our low in Portland) or 34% if you live in >>>> Bend. The high power of the cells helps the low temperature >>>> performance, >>>> however, compared to lead, and you still can put in battery heaters or >>>> an insulated battery box if this is a concern. An insulated battery >>>> box >>>> would also help if you have a catastrophic cell failure with 160C >>>> temperatures. (Always vent the box to the outside (not cabin) for this >>>> reason, though it is not critical). >>>> >>>> There is no high temperature concern (life with most other >>>> batteries!). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Buying the batteries in this package makes it difficult (if not >>>> impractical) to do individual cell group management, but it sure is >>>> convenient! However, it may well be that monitoring the battery >>>> voltage >>>> at 12V will be good enough (that is what we are forced to do with lead >>>> acid batteries in any case). (The issue is that one should slow >>>> down/shut off the charger when a cell reaches maximum voltage to avoid >>>> overcharging it). The self-discharge rates on a cell mean that you may >>>> want to charge individual cells (or cell groups if they are in >>>> parallel) >>>> to keep them in balance. I do this manually right now every 10 months >>>> or >>>> so with A123 cells, but will eventually put in equalizers to do this >>>> continuously. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Bottom line?I would have used batteries like this in my Insight had >>>> they >>>> been available 3 years ago. Let us know how much they want for them. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Other sources are thunder sky (though they have not met specs in their >>>> early offerings), peak battery (K2). I am running K2 batteries in my >>>> plug-in Prius from EEtrex?they have less (but still adequate) power >>>> than >>>> A123?s, but 30% more energy per same size and weight cell. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> It is important to assess the quality of the batteries. It helps to >>>> know >>>> someone who has been using them, but this is difficult with new >>>> batteries. The Sandia report is very helpful in this regard, but there >>>> is always a concern that they ?cherry-picked? the cells that they sent >>>> for testing (rather than a random sample from their production). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Keep us informed with your progress! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Gary >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >>>> *From:* oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] >>>> *On Behalf Of *Rob Russo >>>> *Sent:* Friday, October 09, 2009 6:45 PM >>>> *To:* oeva-list at oeva.org >>>> *Subject:* [Oeva-list] Ev Batteries >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks to all who responded. >>>> >>>> I guess my main concern and probably the first decision I have to make >>>> is the type and voltage of the battery pack. I want to avoid lead acid >>>> batteries because it seems counterintuitive to add all that weight to >>>> such a light vehicle. >>>> >>>> Is this battery pack practical for my application?: >>>> http://www.lifebatt.com/HPSpacks.asp . Are there any alternative >>>> sources >>>> for this type of battery? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> -Rob >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Oeva-list mailing list >>> Oeva-list at oeva.org >>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list >>> >> >> >> > From paul.wallace at intel.com Mon Oct 12 12:07:13 2009 From: paul.wallace at intel.com (Paul Wallace) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 12:07:13 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] Ev Batteries In-Reply-To: References: <170760.80443.qm@web57006.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <9662F248D13E8C45B097A77F005E97293E00872D@orsmsx503.amr.corp.intel.com> <4AD33BB3.9050700@intel.com> Message-ID: <4AD37E61.3070604@intel.com> Too bad they aren't offering the 12v modules in a 100ah version. to get same total energy I'm going to have would requires 32 of the 80ah modules, pushing the nominal pack voltage too high for most DC controllers available today. Even my Zilla 1kehv limits out at about 375vdc. AC controllers may go a bit higher, but the one I'll be using limits at a voltage similar to the Zilla. Using the 120ah modules puts the nominal pack voltage too low, making the current too high under cruising conditions for standard chemistry Li Ion. I wasn't able to find any technical data on max and sustained discharge currents on the site. If they are similar to the A123 cells, then they will be able to withstand higher sustained and max currents than the Sky Energy cells I'll be using, making a lower voltage equivalent total energy pack possible. The weight of the batteries is also interesting. The cells I'm getting will be about 675lbs, while an equivalent pack of these LifeBatts will be around 1300lbs. Paul gfifield at onlinenw.com wrote: > Hi, > I visited the website for LifeBatt.com > They don't sell individual cells but sell in multiples of 12V packs. > The RFQ page has the following statement: > " NOTE: LiFeBATT does not sell individual Cells or sub-components! > Please only fill out this RFQ for complete Plug & Play XPS Packs with > On-Board Diagnostics, Battery Management Systems, Over & Under Voltage > protection circuits and overall Battery Protection Modules." > > They provide the on-board diagnostics and BMS, etc. > I suppose they will supply the protocol, or is it a closed system? > Anyone know? > > Gene >> I'm just about to pick up a set of 96 100ah Sky Energy Li Ion cells from >> EV Components. I am also getting the BMS that they offer, which allows >> them to extend a 2 year warranty on the cells. The total package cost >> is just under $15k. The people at EV Components and their customers are >> seem to be having good results now with both the Sky Energy and the >> Thundersky cells. With the 2 year warranty, I feel that I should be >> covered for any infancy failures. >> >> I wasn't able to get IE to open the web page you sent this morning. >> I'll try again later with my Mac. >> >> Paul Wallace >> >> Graunke, Gary wrote: >>> Looking at the Sandia report, these batteries should be great in an EV. >>> It doesn?t answer the question of quality of manufacturing, but covers >>> everything else. >>> >>> Our experience with A123?s LiFePO4 was that 1-2% have a higher >>> self-discharge rate, but they are otherwise very consistent and meet and >>> exceed specs in every way. >>> >>> These also meet or exceed specs in every way, according to the authors. >>> >>> >>> >>> To deal with these kind of variations, I would suggest the 12V 40AH to >>> 80AH batteries (maybe even the 120AH if you have a pickup truck), so you >>> have 4 to 12 cells in parallel. >>> >>> The 26 to 34 lb batteries are easy to life by hand if you need to work >>> on them. The AH depends on your desired range and/or $ you have to >>> invest. >>> >>> >>> >>> The low temperature performance is better than lead-acid as well, losing >>> only 25% at freezing (about our low in Portland) or 34% if you live in >>> Bend. The high power of the cells helps the low temperature performance, >>> however, compared to lead, and you still can put in battery heaters or >>> an insulated battery box if this is a concern. An insulated battery box >>> would also help if you have a catastrophic cell failure with 160C >>> temperatures. (Always vent the box to the outside (not cabin) for this >>> reason, though it is not critical). >>> >>> There is no high temperature concern (life with most other batteries!). >>> >>> >>> >>> Buying the batteries in this package makes it difficult (if not >>> impractical) to do individual cell group management, but it sure is >>> convenient! However, it may well be that monitoring the battery voltage >>> at 12V will be good enough (that is what we are forced to do with lead >>> acid batteries in any case). (The issue is that one should slow >>> down/shut off the charger when a cell reaches maximum voltage to avoid >>> overcharging it). The self-discharge rates on a cell mean that you may >>> want to charge individual cells (or cell groups if they are in parallel) >>> to keep them in balance. I do this manually right now every 10 months or >>> so with A123 cells, but will eventually put in equalizers to do this >>> continuously. >>> >>> >>> >>> Bottom line?I would have used batteries like this in my Insight had they >>> been available 3 years ago. Let us know how much they want for them. >>> >>> >>> >>> Other sources are thunder sky (though they have not met specs in their >>> early offerings), peak battery (K2). I am running K2 batteries in my >>> plug-in Prius from EEtrex?they have less (but still adequate) power than >>> A123?s, but 30% more energy per same size and weight cell. >>> >>> >>> >>> It is important to assess the quality of the batteries. It helps to know >>> someone who has been using them, but this is difficult with new >>> batteries. The Sandia report is very helpful in this regard, but there >>> is always a concern that they ?cherry-picked? the cells that they sent >>> for testing (rather than a random sample from their production). >>> >>> >>> >>> Keep us informed with your progress! >>> >>> >>> >>> Gary >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> *From:* oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] >>> *On Behalf Of *Rob Russo >>> *Sent:* Friday, October 09, 2009 6:45 PM >>> *To:* oeva-list at oeva.org >>> *Subject:* [Oeva-list] Ev Batteries >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks to all who responded. >>> >>> I guess my main concern and probably the first decision I have to make >>> is the type and voltage of the battery pack. I want to avoid lead acid >>> batteries because it seems counterintuitive to add all that weight to >>> such a light vehicle. >>> >>> Is this battery pack practical for my application?: >>> http://www.lifebatt.com/HPSpacks.asp . Are there any alternative sources >>> for this type of battery? >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> -Rob >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Oeva-list mailing list >> Oeva-list at oeva.org >> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list >> > > > From paul.wallace at intel.com Mon Oct 12 20:14:27 2009 From: paul.wallace at intel.com (Paul Wallace) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 20:14:27 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] Ev Batteries In-Reply-To: References: <170760.80443.qm@web57006.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <9662F248D13E8C45B097A77F005E97293E00872D@orsmsx503.amr.corp.intel.com> <4AD33BB3.9050700@intel.com> <4AD37E61.3070604@intel.com> Message-ID: <4AD3F093.6060103@intel.com> EV Components was asking if anyone was serious about using the A123 cells. Sounded as if they were considering approaching A123 with some sort of battery system proposal. EV Components was soliciting input on number of cells, AH requirements, max voltage. I would much rather work with them at this point rather than a company that doesn't even publish a spec sheet. If I were in the process of converting my Insight, I might send in an RFQ, but I've got my hands full with my truck project for now. Paul gfifield at onlinenw.com wrote: > Hi Paul, > Why not just fill out their quote form with your particular desired > configuration and see what they come back with? I'd be curious to know if > they will deal with individuals. > Gene > >> Too bad they aren't offering the 12v modules in a 100ah version. to get >> same total energy I'm going to have would requires 32 of the 80ah >> modules, pushing the nominal pack voltage too high for most DC >> controllers available today. Even my Zilla 1kehv limits out at about >> 375vdc. AC controllers may go a bit higher, but the one I'll be using >> limits at a voltage similar to the Zilla. Using the 120ah modules puts >> the nominal pack voltage too low, making the current too high under >> cruising conditions for standard chemistry Li Ion. I wasn't able to >> find any technical data on max and sustained discharge currents on the >> site. If they are similar to the A123 cells, then they will be able to >> withstand higher sustained and max currents than the Sky Energy cells >> I'll be using, making a lower voltage equivalent total energy pack >> possible. The weight of the batteries is also interesting. The cells >> I'm getting will be about 675lbs, while an equivalent pack of these >> LifeBatts will be around 1300lbs. >> >> Paul >> >> gfifield at onlinenw.com wrote: >>> Hi, >>> I visited the website for LifeBatt.com >>> They don't sell individual cells but sell in multiples of 12V packs. >>> The RFQ page has the following statement: >>> " NOTE: LiFeBATT does not sell individual Cells or sub-components! >>> Please only fill out this RFQ for complete Plug & Play XPS Packs with >>> On-Board Diagnostics, Battery Management Systems, Over & Under Voltage >>> protection circuits and overall Battery Protection Modules." >>> >>> They provide the on-board diagnostics and BMS, etc. >>> I suppose they will supply the protocol, or is it a closed system? >>> Anyone know? >>> >>> Gene >>>> I'm just about to pick up a set of 96 100ah Sky Energy Li Ion cells >>>> from >>>> EV Components. I am also getting the BMS that they offer, which allows >>>> them to extend a 2 year warranty on the cells. The total package cost >>>> is just under $15k. The people at EV Components and their customers >>>> are >>>> seem to be having good results now with both the Sky Energy and the >>>> Thundersky cells. With the 2 year warranty, I feel that I should be >>>> covered for any infancy failures. >>>> >>>> I wasn't able to get IE to open the web page you sent this morning. >>>> I'll try again later with my Mac. >>>> >>>> Paul Wallace >>>> >>>> Graunke, Gary wrote: >>>>> Looking at the Sandia report, these batteries should be great in an >>>>> EV. >>>>> It doesn?t answer the question of quality of manufacturing, but covers >>>>> everything else. >>>>> >>>>> Our experience with A123?s LiFePO4 was that 1-2% have a higher >>>>> self-discharge rate, but they are otherwise very consistent and meet >>>>> and >>>>> exceed specs in every way. >>>>> >>>>> These also meet or exceed specs in every way, according to the >>>>> authors. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> To deal with these kind of variations, I would suggest the 12V 40AH to >>>>> 80AH batteries (maybe even the 120AH if you have a pickup truck), so >>>>> you >>>>> have 4 to 12 cells in parallel. >>>>> >>>>> The 26 to 34 lb batteries are easy to life by hand if you need to work >>>>> on them. The AH depends on your desired range and/or $ you have to >>>>> invest. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The low temperature performance is better than lead-acid as well, >>>>> losing >>>>> only 25% at freezing (about our low in Portland) or 34% if you live in >>>>> Bend. The high power of the cells helps the low temperature >>>>> performance, >>>>> however, compared to lead, and you still can put in battery heaters or >>>>> an insulated battery box if this is a concern. An insulated battery >>>>> box >>>>> would also help if you have a catastrophic cell failure with 160C >>>>> temperatures. (Always vent the box to the outside (not cabin) for this >>>>> reason, though it is not critical). >>>>> >>>>> There is no high temperature concern (life with most other >>>>> batteries!). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Buying the batteries in this package makes it difficult (if not >>>>> impractical) to do individual cell group management, but it sure is >>>>> convenient! However, it may well be that monitoring the battery >>>>> voltage >>>>> at 12V will be good enough (that is what we are forced to do with lead >>>>> acid batteries in any case). (The issue is that one should slow >>>>> down/shut off the charger when a cell reaches maximum voltage to avoid >>>>> overcharging it). The self-discharge rates on a cell mean that you may >>>>> want to charge individual cells (or cell groups if they are in >>>>> parallel) >>>>> to keep them in balance. I do this manually right now every 10 months >>>>> or >>>>> so with A123 cells, but will eventually put in equalizers to do this >>>>> continuously. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Bottom line?I would have used batteries like this in my Insight had >>>>> they >>>>> been available 3 years ago. Let us know how much they want for them. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Other sources are thunder sky (though they have not met specs in their >>>>> early offerings), peak battery (K2). I am running K2 batteries in my >>>>> plug-in Prius from EEtrex?they have less (but still adequate) power >>>>> than >>>>> A123?s, but 30% more energy per same size and weight cell. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> It is important to assess the quality of the batteries. It helps to >>>>> know >>>>> someone who has been using them, but this is difficult with new >>>>> batteries. The Sandia report is very helpful in this regard, but there >>>>> is always a concern that they ?cherry-picked? the cells that they sent >>>>> for testing (rather than a random sample from their production). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Keep us informed with your progress! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Gary >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> *From:* oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] >>>>> *On Behalf Of *Rob Russo >>>>> *Sent:* Friday, October 09, 2009 6:45 PM >>>>> *To:* oeva-list at oeva.org >>>>> *Subject:* [Oeva-list] Ev Batteries >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks to all who responded. >>>>> >>>>> I guess my main concern and probably the first decision I have to make >>>>> is the type and voltage of the battery pack. I want to avoid lead acid >>>>> batteries because it seems counterintuitive to add all that weight to >>>>> such a light vehicle. >>>>> >>>>> Is this battery pack practical for my application?: >>>>> http://www.lifebatt.com/HPSpacks.asp . Are there any alternative >>>>> sources >>>>> for this type of battery? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> -Rob >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Oeva-list mailing list >>>> Oeva-list at oeva.org >>>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list >>>> >>> >>> > > > From Theoldcars at aol.com Tue Oct 13 11:55:31 2009 From: Theoldcars at aol.com (Theoldcars at aol.com) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 14:55:31 EDT Subject: [Oeva-list] Ev Batteries & LifeBatt.com Message-ID: In my opinion batteries at reasonable prices that can last in an EV are the holy grail. Everything else about an EV is fairly rock solid when you look at the failure rate the weak link is the batteries. So many times new batteries are announced but are either just a concept or sound as if they are just what we have been waiting for. It is when these batteries become available that the real world testing starts to happen. I had high hope for Valence batteries and kept in touch with one of the first users to install them in an EV. One driver spent over 30,000 dollars for a 170 volt pack in a 2000 pound EV. It was great at first but range dropped fast and after a couple of years his range has gone from well over a hundred to almost half of what it was. This is from a battery that was to have thousands of cycles when not deep discharged. This pack was treated very kind and still did not perform. This above event was a good thing for me as I was looking for a pack that would have twice the voltage. 60,000 plus dollars was way beyond my budget so that was not going to happen but it is sad that a fellow EV driver had to lose money like this. It also took a couple of years before the real world testing became known. I know there are a few Thunder Sky buyers on this list that found out real world information several years back in a group buy. As an EV drivers we are all testing out batteries and finding out how good they will be. Some times we far exceed what they were designed for and an early failure should have not been surprising. I would agree we are expecting a lot from batteries but that is what it is going to take to power an EV. Right now one of the few batteries I know of that we can buy and holding up is the A123. They are expensive up front but if they last as long as the manufacturer claims then in the long run they would be the most cost effective. These batteries have been tested to the extremes in the RC hobby. At far higher demanding rates then for normal EV use. They also are used in drag racing EVs and have shown they can take a lot of punishment. I would be very leery of EV batteries sellers now on the market as the number is really increasing from manufacturers overseas. I inquired on LifeBatt with a well connected long time EV friend it was not a good review. I decided to do a Google search on LifeBatt and Don Harmon and found this. _http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/future-fuels-and-vehicles/message/12529 _ (http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/future-fuels-and-vehicles/message/12529) There was a lot of posts by Don Harmon promoting these cells just about every where. I did not come across anyone saying how great they are but read several that would stop me from buying their product until I get reports from known EV drivers. This is just my point of view. I have no connection with any battery manufacturer or investments in their stocks. Don -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091013/2407132a/attachment.html From frodus17 at gmail.com Tue Oct 13 13:31:50 2009 From: frodus17 at gmail.com (Travis Gintz) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 13:31:50 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] Found on Trading Post: 1994 US Electricar Prism Message-ID: Trying to help my friend sell his US Electricar Prizm located in Vancouver, WA (pass it on if you can)..... This 1994 U.S. Electricar Prizm is one of less than 200 Prizm-based sedans built on the Geo factory floor by Hughes Aerospace in conjunction with Chevrolet in the mid-90's, and was developed to an extremely high standard. The Prizm sedan holds 50 batteries in a tray located under the cab, leaving seating for 5 with 4 doors and a full trunk. It has a liquid-cooled Siemens AC induction motor and Hughes "Dolphin" 3-phase 50kW inverter/charger/controller for extremely quiet and smooth operation, and very effective 50kW regenerative braking, which makes brake pads last a very, very long time. This particular example was part of a private collection when I bought it 3 years ago, and is a beautiful and very clean example of this very rare model. This vehicle is capable of a 70-mile range with new batteries (currently I can do 35 miles per charge with 5-year-old batteries), and a top speed of around 90 mph (I've never gone quite that fast, but I don't doubt the claim). This Prizm is in excellent condition with only a single dent on the very bottom of the rocker panel behind the passenger front wheel. It was freshly painted in 2006, and the paint is near perfect. My wife uses this car as a daily driver 7 days a week. It starts, runs, and charges trouble-free on a 110V or 220V supply and will fully charge in between 5 (220V) and 18 (110V) hours. In real-world use, we charge at 110V after a 15-mile drive in about 8 hours. We changed to compact fluorescents throughout our home and completely offset the cost of operating the car. We laugh as we pass gas stations! Plug it in at night like you plug in your cell phone. It's that simple. I have made extensive use of the U.S. Electricar Yahoo group (and highly recommend joining if you buy the car), which has advice, upgrade and repair info for absolutely every aspect of this car's operation and maintenance. I have followed the advice found there to upgrade protection of the control unit with additional fusing, and replaced 14 marginal batteries with identical-model replacements 2.5 years ago. While I had the pack down, I added Lee Hart zener-diode regulators to each of the 50 batteries to protect them from overcharging. Plain and simple and TRUE: This car has been more reliable than any gas vehicle I have ever owned. We would NEVER sell this car otherwise, but a move to Calgary forces the sale. http://www.evtradinpost.com/index.php?method=showdetails&list=advertisement&rollid=3521&fromfromlist=advertisement_active&fromfrommethod=showhtmllist email me and I can get you his phone number, or email him via trading post. -- Travis Gintz 1986 Honda VFR DC conversion Http://blog.evfr.net/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091013/a471cdf1/attachment.html From climer97007 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 13 15:29:38 2009 From: climer97007 at yahoo.com (Gene Climer) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 15:29:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Oeva-list] LifeBatt Price List... Message-ID: <791612.61825.qm@web32208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I just got this price list from Don Hanson. I have no experience with Don or Lifebatt. So, I have no comment as to quality or reliability. However, they are proud of their batteries?according to the prices. The code -1215 means 12V and 15Ah, etc.? Gene Climer Product?Unit Price (USD)XPS2E-1215 = $ 350XPS2E-1230 = $ 575XPS2E-1245 = $ 689XPS2E-1260 = $ 830XPS2E-1290 = $ 1,450XPS2E-12120 = $ 2,020XPS2E-12180 = $ 2,950XPS2E-2415 = $ 610XPS2E-2430 = $ 1,075XPS2E-2445 = $ 1,580XPS2E-2460 = $ 2,000XPS2E-2490 = $ 2,890XPS2E-3615 = $ 890XPS2E-3630 = $ 1,550XPS2E-3645 = $ 2,330XPS2E-3660 = $ 2,950XPS2E-4815 = $ 1,150XPS2E-4830 = $ 1,995XPS2E-4845 = $ 3,000XPS2E-7215 = $ 1,640XPS2E-7230 = $ 3,130XPS2E-9615 = $ 2,150XPS2E-10815 = $ 2,400XPS2E-14415 = $ 3,140? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091013/7be3b3b3/attachment.html From matwete at comcast.net Tue Oct 13 16:08:03 2009 From: matwete at comcast.net (Myles Twete) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 16:08:03 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] Ev Batteries & LifeBatt.com In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003c01ca4c5a$052aa950$0f7ffbf0$@net> Great points Don. Add to the disappointment list: The once promising Evercel Nickel Zinc battery. Add to the performance list: Kokam batteries and company -Myles From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of Theoldcars at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 11:56 AM To: oeva-list at oeva.org Subject: [Oeva-list] Ev Batteries & LifeBatt.com In my opinion batteries at reasonable prices that can last in an EV are the holy grail. Everything else about an EV is fairly rock solid when you look at the failure rate the weak link is the batteries. So many times new batteries are announced but are either just a concept or sound as if they are just what we have been waiting for. It is when these batteries become available that the real world testing starts to happen. I had high hope for Valence batteries and kept in touch with one of the first users to install them in an EV. One driver spent over 30,000 dollars for a 170 volt pack in a 2000 pound EV. It was great at first but range dropped fast and after a couple of years his range has gone from well over a hundred to almost half of what it was. This is from a battery that was to have thousands of cycles when not deep discharged. This pack was treated very kind and still did not perform. This above event was a good thing for me as I was looking for a pack that would have twice the voltage. 60,000 plus dollars was way beyond my budget so that was not going to happen but it is sad that a fellow EV driver had to lose money like this. It also took a couple of years before the real world testing became known. I know there are a few Thunder Sky buyers on this list that found out real world information several years back in a group buy. As an EV drivers we are all testing out batteries and finding out how good they will be. Some times we far exceed what they were designed for and an early failure should have not been surprising. I would agree we are expecting a lot from batteries but that is what it is going to take to power an EV. Right now one of the few batteries I know of that we can buy and holding up is the A123. They are expensive up front but if they last as long as the manufacturer claims then in the long run they would be the most cost effective. These batteries have been tested to the extremes in the RC hobby. At far higher demanding rates then for normal EV use. They also are used in drag racing EVs and have shown they can take a lot of punishment. I would be very leery of EV batteries sellers now on the market as the number is really increasing from manufacturers overseas. I inquired on LifeBatt with a well connected long time EV friend it was not a good review. I decided to do a Google search on LifeBatt and Don Harmon and found this. http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/future-fuels-and-vehicles/message/12529 There was a lot of posts by Don Harmon promoting these cells just about every where. I did not come across anyone saying how great they are but read several that would stop me from buying their product until I get reports from known EV drivers. This is just my point of view. I have no connection with any battery manufacturer or investments in their stocks. Don -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091013/44760be7/attachment-0001.html From frodus17 at gmail.com Tue Oct 13 17:16:00 2009 From: frodus17 at gmail.com (Travis Gintz) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 17:16:00 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] LifeBatt Price List... In-Reply-To: <791612.61825.qm@web32208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <791612.61825.qm@web32208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: sheesh..... one 12V 15Ah battery is $350? That means 4 of their new 15Ah batteries in series, with a BMS.... for about $88 a cell...... only 15Ah.... so thats what.... $5.86 per Ah with BMS. On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 3:29 PM, Gene Climer wrote: > I just got this price list from Don Hanson. > I have no experience with Don or Lifebatt. > So, I have no comment as to quality or reliability. > However, they are proud of their batteries according to the prices. > The code -1215 means 12V and 15Ah, etc. > Gene Climer > > > Product Unit Price (USD) > > XPS2E-1215 = $ > 350 > > XPS2E-1230 = $ > 575 > > XPS2E-1245 = $ > 689 > > XPS2E-1260 = $ > 830 > > XPS2E-1290 = $ > 1,450 > > XPS2E-12120 = $ > 2,020 > > XPS2E-12180 = $ > 2,950 > > XPS2E-2415 = $ > 610 > > XPS2E-2430 = $ > 1,075 > > XPS2E-2445 = $ > 1,580 > > XPS2E-2460 = $ > 2,000 > > XPS2E-2490 = $ > 2,890 > > XPS2E-3615 = $ > 890 > > XPS2E-3630 = $ > 1,550 > > XPS2E-3645 = $ > 2,330 > > XPS2E-3660 = $ > 2,950 > > XPS2E-4815 = $ > 1,150 > > XPS2E-4830 = $ > 1,995 > > XPS2E-4845 = $ > 3,000 > > XPS2E-7215 = $ > 1,640 > > XPS2E-7230 = $ > 3,130 > > XPS2E-9615 = $ > 2,150 > > XPS2E-10815 = $ > 2,400 > > XPS2E-14415 = $ > 3,140 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Oeva-list mailing list > Oeva-list at oeva.org > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > > -- Travis Gintz 1986 Honda VFR DC conversion Http://blog.evfr.net/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091013/7d9955a5/attachment.html From Theoldcars at aol.com Tue Oct 13 23:38:29 2009 From: Theoldcars at aol.com (Theoldcars at aol.com) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 02:38:29 EDT Subject: [Oeva-list] Kokam batteries Message-ID: Hello Myles I have not heard anything negative about Kokam batteries. There was a race car _www.PROEVcom_ (http://www.PROEVcom) that was using them. I have not checked on that for some time. I have no idea what their prices are like. Don In a message dated 10/13/2009 4:08:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time, oeva-list-request at oeva.org writes: Great points Don. Add to the disappointment list: The once promising Evercel Nickel Zinc battery. Add to the performance list: Kokam batteries and company -Myles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091014/493e57e1/attachment.html From matwete at comcast.net Wed Oct 14 08:55:22 2009 From: matwete at comcast.net (Myles Twete) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 08:55:22 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] Kokam batteries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003301ca4ce6$bd028b10$3707a130$@net> Oh, sorry --- when I said "performance list", I meant that Kokam is a performance battery and company and not one of the ones that promised the moon. I should have been clearer. -MT From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of Theoldcars at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 11:38 PM To: oeva-list at oeva.org Subject: [Oeva-list] Kokam batteries Hello Myles I have not heard anything negative about Kokam batteries. There was a race car www.PROEVcom that was using them. I have not checked on that for some time. I have no idea what their prices are like. Don In a message dated 10/13/2009 4:08:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time, oeva-list-request at oeva.org writes: Great points Don. Add to the disappointment list: The once promising Evercel Nickel Zinc battery. Add to the performance list: Kokam batteries and company -Myles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091014/5c932824/attachment.html From matwete at comcast.net Wed Oct 14 08:57:06 2009 From: matwete at comcast.net (Myles Twete) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 08:57:06 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] Kokam batteries In-Reply-To: <003301ca4ce6$bd028b10$3707a130$@net> References: <003301ca4ce6$bd028b10$3707a130$@net> Message-ID: <003e01ca4ce6$fae01920$f0a04b60$@net> And Kokams have a long track record in the RC hobby---I've used them for many many years. -MT From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of Myles Twete Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 8:55 AM To: oeva-list at oeva.org Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Kokam batteries Oh, sorry --- when I said "performance list", I meant that Kokam is a performance battery and company and not one of the ones that promised the moon. I should have been clearer. -MT From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of Theoldcars at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 11:38 PM To: oeva-list at oeva.org Subject: [Oeva-list] Kokam batteries Hello Myles I have not heard anything negative about Kokam batteries. There was a race car www.PROEVcom that was using them. I have not checked on that for some time. I have no idea what their prices are like. Don In a message dated 10/13/2009 4:08:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time, oeva-list-request at oeva.org writes: Great points Don. Add to the disappointment list: The once promising Evercel Nickel Zinc battery. Add to the performance list: Kokam batteries and company -Myles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091014/8152b203/attachment-0001.html From evmail4ron at yahoo.com Wed Oct 14 09:38:00 2009 From: evmail4ron at yahoo.com (Ron Jayasuriya) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 09:38:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Oeva-list] Kokam batteries Message-ID: <585801.78681.qm@web110109.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> If people are interested in Kokam batteries, there is a local ev owner who is using them. Chris Morgan has a Porsche 911 with 100 Kokam cells powering an AC Propulsion system.? I did a little work to the car -- BMS related -- and got to drive it.? To this day it's still my favorite EV.? It was really fast, and had good range.? And it's a bright red Porsche, so it's fun to drive.? A couple things about my limited experience with the Kokams: the shape of the cells makes them a little hard to work with.? They are just a flat rectangle, maybe an inch thick.? Once they are wired together in series you can end up with a problem if you have to replace one of the batteries (or bms modules) in the middle of the chain.? You might have to start at the end and dismantle the whole thing to get to it, because of tight clearance for your tools.? Builders keep this in mind if you use these.? Ideally you'd build a box that allows enough clearance to access individual cells, but there are space constraints that can prevent this. Also, when there was some uncertainty about one of these batteries it was unclear whether or not we could order a replacement.? But this may be because these batteries were limited production. All that being said, the person who would really know is Chris Morgan.? He's had this car for a while and is in the Portland area.? I'll ask him to post to the oeva board on his experience. I have also heard rumors that Kokam may be looking to offer a different line of EV batteries, and possibly sponsor an EV drag car that some of us have seen before.? Perhaps those who know more about this would like to post. Ron --- On Wed, 10/14/09, Myles Twete wrote: From: Myles Twete Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Kokam batteries To: oeva-list at oeva.org Date: Wednesday, October 14, 2009, 3:57 PM And Kokams have a long track record in the RC hobby---I?ve used them for many many years. -MT ? From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of Myles Twete Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 8:55 AM To: oeva-list at oeva.org Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Kokam batteries ? Oh, sorry --- when I said ?performance list?, I meant that Kokam is a performance battery and company and not one of the ones that promised the moon. I should have been clearer. -MT ? From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of Theoldcars at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 11:38 PM To: oeva-list at oeva.org Subject: [Oeva-list] Kokam batteries ? Hello Myles ? I have not heard anything?negative about Kokam batteries. There was a race car www.PROEVcom ?that was using them. I have not checked on that for some time. I have no idea what their prices are like. ? Don ? In a message dated 10/13/2009 4:08:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time, oeva-list-request at oeva.org writes: Great points Don. Add to the disappointment list: The once promising Evercel Nickel Zinc battery. Add to the performance list: Kokam batteries and company -Myles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Oeva-list mailing list Oeva-list at oeva.org http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091014/9efd4ae7/attachment.html From matwete at comcast.net Wed Oct 14 11:22:58 2009 From: matwete at comcast.net (Myles Twete) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 11:22:58 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] Kokam batteries In-Reply-To: <585801.78681.qm@web110109.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <585801.78681.qm@web110109.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <006401ca4cfb$5b92cc90$12b865b0$@net> And of course, Victor Tikhonov has experience with EV-size Kokams and has developed a BMS for them --- www.metricmind.com -mt From: Ron Jayasuriya [mailto:evmail4ron at yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 9:38 AM To: oeva-list at oeva.org; Myles Twete Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Kokam batteries If people are interested in Kokam batteries, there is a local ev owner who is using them. Chris Morgan has a Porsche 911 with 100 Kokam cells powering an AC Propulsion system. I did a little work to the car -- BMS related -- and got to drive it. To this day it's still my favorite EV. It was really fast, and had good range. And it's a bright red Porsche, so it's fun to drive. A couple things about my limited experience with the Kokams: the shape of the cells makes them a little hard to work with. They are just a flat rectangle, maybe an inch thick. Once they are wired together in series you can end up with a problem if you have to replace one of the batteries (or bms modules) in the middle of the chain. You might have to start at the end and dismantle the whole thing to get to it, because of tight clearance for your tools. Builders keep this in mind if you use these. Ideally you'd build a box that allows enough clearance to access individual cells, but there are space constraints that can prevent this. Also, when there was some uncertainty about one of these batteries it was unclear whether or not we could order a replacement. But this may be because these batteries were limited production. All that being said, the person who would really know is Chris Morgan. He's had this car for a while and is in the Portland area. I'll ask him to post to the oeva board on his experience. I have also heard rumors that Kokam may be looking to offer a different line of EV batteries, and possibly sponsor an EV drag car that some of us have seen before. Perhaps those who know more about this would like to post. Ron --- On Wed, 10/14/09, Myles Twete wrote: From: Myles Twete Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Kokam batteries To: oeva-list at oeva.org Date: Wednesday, October 14, 2009, 3:57 PM And Kokams have a long track record in the RC hobby---I?ve used them for many many years. -MT From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of Myles Twete Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 8:55 AM To: oeva-list at oeva.org Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Kokam batteries Oh, sorry --- when I said ?performance list?, I meant that Kokam is a performance battery and company and not one of the ones that promised the moon. I should have been clearer. -MT From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of Theoldcars at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 11:38 PM To: oeva-list at oeva.org Subject: [Oeva-list] Kokam batteries Hello Myles I have not heard anything negative about Kokam batteries. There was a race car www.PROEVcom that was using them. I have not checked on that for some time. I have no idea what their prices are like. Don In a message dated 10/13/2009 4:08:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time, oeva-list-request at oeva.org writes: Great points Don. Add to the disappointment list: The once promising Evercel Nickel Zinc battery. Add to the performance list: Kokam batteries and company -Myles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Oeva-list mailing list Oeva-list at oeva.org http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091014/836d41ec/attachment-0001.html From Rick.Durst at pgn.com Wed Oct 14 14:33:22 2009 From: Rick.Durst at pgn.com (Rick Durst) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 14:33:22 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] Intel JF charging stations In-Reply-To: <37a5993b0908171052k225bf193s9e4bd1ff5fb3f749@mail.gmail.com> References: <4911F71203A09E4D9981D27F9D8308583306A3A0@orsmsx503.amr.corp.intel.com> <37a5993b0908171052k225bf193s9e4bd1ff5fb3f749@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Just dug this out of my e-mail. These stations, at the request of the customers is for their use only. If you are visiting one of these locations, you may just need to inquire when you arrive if it is o.k. to use it. Rick Durst 503-464-7631 ________________________________________________ Rick Durst | Portland General Electric 121 SW Salmon St, 3WTC0407 | Portland, Oregon 97204 | (: 503.464-7631 | 7: 503.464-2284 | *: Rick.Durst at pgn.com -----Original Message----- From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of phil hochstetler Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 10:52 AM To: Norris-York, William; OEVA Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Intel JF charging stations The PGE map that lists this charging station says "Note: Charging for Intel Employees only" so that kinds of makes it useless for others even though it would be useful to me as I work within 5 miles of its location and drive my EV daily and make trips in that direction on occasion. Is this Intel policy or just PGE?. The Nike site is also listed as "Employees only and Authorized visitors" what ever that means. The link to the PGE map can be found on this page: http://www.portlandgeneral.com/about_pge/current_issues/charging_stations.aspx --phil On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:04 AM, Norris-York, William wrote: > I just wanted to make sure the Intel people on this forum knew that JF > has charging stations (NE corner or the parking lot next to the JF3 entrance). > I seem to be the only one using them, so I thought maybe it was a > secret J > > > > Bill > > _______________________________________________ > Oeva-list mailing list > Oeva-list at oeva.org > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > > _______________________________________________ Oeva-list mailing list Oeva-list at oeva.org http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list From nevokyay at yahoo.com Thu Oct 15 09:20:03 2009 From: nevokyay at yahoo.com (Nev Okyay) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 09:20:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Oeva-list] Mazda 1984 EV conversion project for sale - $3500 Message-ID: <921745.18539.qm@web55106.mail.re4.yahoo.com> 1984 Mazda long bed truck EV conversion project. I went as far as I could on this conversion project. I spent about a year on it so far and I am running out of time and funds to continue any further. If you are considering starting a conversion project, this will probably be the low cost option in terms of effort and cash outlay. Asking $3500 for everything. At this point, the truck will drive 15 to 20 mph and therefore it is not ready to drive in traffic yet. The next step probably is to get a bigger control box. What is included: 1. 1984 Mazda long-bed pickup truck, without the engine, exhaust pipe, or the gas tank. (workshop manual included). 2. 15 HP 3 phase electric motor (already mounted into the truck without the clutch). US Motors Unimount Model #: A928 Specs from www.usmotors.com/default_ecatalog.htm 3. 15 HP Hitachi 3 phase inverter (user manual included). google L300P.pdf to see the users manual. Detailed info from: http://www.hitachi-america.us/products/business/inverters/ac_variable_speed_drives/l300p/index.html Purchased from www.driveswarehouse.com. 4. 20 Mega-tron deep cycle green top batteries (SLA). All batteries less then one year old, charged maybe a total of 3 times for test runs. 5. Simple charger to charge the batteries from standard electrical outlet. (No BMS of any sort). 6. Regenerative power is used to charge batteries when travelling downhill. It doesn't have a DC to DC converter to charge the accessory battery. You will need a separate charger to charge it. It doesn't have a vacuum pump for the brakes. If you are interested please call me at 503-750-8278. Feel free to forward this msg to any interested parties. I haven't used any picture share sites before, hopefully you will be able to get to pictures from the links below. Final pictures: http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=0KZNWLdm5ZOnA Pictures from the beginning of the project: http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=0KZNWLdm5ZOcg Few other pictures: http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=0KZNWLdm5ZOUA From nevokyay at yahoo.com Thu Oct 15 11:33:08 2009 From: nevokyay at yahoo.com (Nev Okyay) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 11:33:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Oeva-list] Mazda 1984 EV conversion project for sale - $3500 In-Reply-To: <747966.65099.qm@web110102.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <747966.65099.qm@web110102.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <580321.17628.qm@web55106.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Hi Ron- I appreciate your kind words about this project, and yes, I put in many many hours into it. :) The truck is rather old and has few dings and dents here and there, but the price is right. To answer your questions: 1. The total pack voltage is 240V, wired as two banks of 120V. 2. I didn't see any other examples using this controller, but that did not stop me. Somebody had to be the first, right? I chose this controller because of the sheer number of configuration options and other expansion possibilities. The small control panel can be detached and located remotely with a simple standard network cable (just one example). 3. You are right that it is seriously underpowered. Obviously this is not due to batteries. The control box faults and cuts the current to protect itself. That is the main problem now. If I continued with the project, I was going to buy a 50HP Hitachi controller in the same controller family. If you price that controller, it is around $3500. However, because of economic downturn, it was possible to buy that controller for $2400 from Hitachi direct. (I don't know if that price still available). That is more then 3 times the current controller power, so I would think that it would be possible to drive at least 30-35mph without making any changes. Will the motor give I don't know. The motor has a thermal shutdown, but it has never happened. After test driving whenever I felt the motor, I didn't feel any temp difference. I knew nothing about EV conversions when I started this project and my expectations were very low. Just the fact that this truck moved at all under electric power was success to me. In real life whole lot more is needed. There may be another controller/motor combination that may work much better, I don't know. My wife wants to use the garage for her car this winter, and that's the real problem I am trying to solve now. :) -nev ________________________________ From: Ron Jayasuriya To: Nev Okyay Sent: Thu, October 15, 2009 9:43:25 AM Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Mazda 1984 EV conversion project for sale - $3500 Hi, I am interested in your truck. A couple quick questions: 1. Are those 12V batteries for total pack voltage of 240V? 2. You probably did some research when you selected this motor/controller combination. what can you tell me about using these in ev's? Other examples out there? 3. Sounds like performance is not up to expectations. What would your next move be? Do you have a bigger controller in mind that I could research? I have more experience with DC conversions, but I do know that AC controllers need to be matched to the motor. Anyway, work you've done looks really nice in the pictures. I used to work for Shorepower Technologies where I converted a 2000 VW Jetta, and also did a number of PHEV conversions for the Prius and Escape vehicles. So I know how much work you've done to get your truck where it is. What you've done looks really nice, by the way. I'd love to be involved in finishing it, one way or the other. I may have some people who'd be interested in buying it and having me finish it. But tell me what you can about what you'd do next, and we'll see where it goes from there. Thanks, Ron --- On Thu, 10/15/09, Nev Okyay wrote: >From: Nev Okyay >Subject: [Oeva-list] Mazda 1984 EV conversion project for sale - $3500 >To: oeva-list at oeva.org >Date: Thursday, October 15, 2009, 4:20 PM > > > >1984 Mazda long bed truck EV conversion project. > >I went as far as I could on this conversion project. >I spent about a year on it so far and I am running out >of > time and funds to continue any further. If you are >considering starting a conversion project, this will >probably be the low cost option in terms of effort >and cash outlay. Asking $3500 for everything. > >At this point, the truck will drive 15 to 20 mph and >therefore it is not ready to drive in traffic yet. >The next step probably is to get a bigger control box. > >What is included: >1. 1984 Mazda long-bed pickup truck, without the engine, > exhaust pipe, or the gas tank. (workshop manual included). >2. 15 HP 3 phase electric motor (already mounted into > the truck without the clutch). > US Motors Unimount Model #: A928 > Specs from www.usmotors.com/default_ecatalog.htm >3. 15 HP Hitachi 3 phase inverter (user manual included). > google L300P.pdf to see the users manual. Detailed info from: > > http://www.hitachi-america.us/products/business/inverters/ac_variable_speed_drives/l300p/index.html > Purchased from www.driveswarehouse.com. >4. 20 Mega-tron deep cycle green top batteries (SLA). > All batteries less then one year old, charged maybe a total > of 3 times for test runs. >5. Simple charger to charge the batteries from standard > electrical outlet. (No BMS of any sort). >6. Regenerative power is used to charge batteries when > travelling downhill. > >It doesn't have a DC to DC converter to charge the accessory >battery. You will need a separate charger to charge it. >It doesn't have a vacuum pump for the brakes. > >If you are interested please call me at 503-750-8278. Feel > free >to forward this msg to any interested parties. > >I haven't used any picture share sites before, hopefully you will >be able to get to pictures from the links below. > >Final pictures: >http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=0KZNWLdm5ZOnA > >Pictures from the beginning of the project: >http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=0KZNWLdm5ZOcg > >Few other pictures: >http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=0KZNWLdm5ZOUA > > > >_______________________________________________ >Oeva-list mailing list >Oeva-list at oeva.org >http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091015/42a18b2d/attachment.html From patrick0101 at gmail.com Fri Oct 16 23:46:42 2009 From: patrick0101 at gmail.com (patrick0101 at gmail.com) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 23:46:42 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] 4 Renault Concept EVs, 1 Video Message-ID: <8c28d7b50910162346y3c0423e7qf9dc0a58f0f23b93@mail.gmail.com> Renault Twizy ZE, Zoe ZE, Fluence ZE, & Kangoo ZE. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-x6Rqn8jf4 Regards, Pat With Great Power, Comes Great Current and High Voltage =D~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091016/edc5a7c8/attachment.html From ken at fivestarguitars.com Sun Oct 18 12:09:15 2009 From: ken at fivestarguitars.com (Ken Potter) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 12:09:15 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] Looking to improve a 48V machine Message-ID: Looking for advice: My project is on the road and doing fairly well: 48V Motorcycle using 4 AGM batteries @ 50 AH each, and an identical 5th battery for the 12V needs (the two systems are separate except for the 12V contactor). The controller is an Alltrax AXE, set to 70% maximum power. The motor is a Mars ME0708 Brush-Type, Permanent Magnet DC motor, also known as the Etek-R. *Here are the issues*: As usual, extending the range a few more miles is a priority. At the same time, just a little more power would be welcome for climbing hills at moderate speeds. *Here are some options:* I have one more identical battery, and I'm tempted to go up to 60V, adding 50 AH at the same time (but exceeding the rating of the motor). Another possibility is just reprogramming the controller to 80% of max and switching to larger batteries (groan). A third, and less expensive option, is to add a small DC-DC converter, eliminate the accessory battery, and save about 30 lbs. By law, the headlight must remain on at all times. A good LED headlight would improve matters, so the search is on. Any thoughts? Ken Potter -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091018/b613aa3e/attachment.html From jeff.shorepower at gmail.com Sun Oct 18 14:10:27 2009 From: jeff.shorepower at gmail.com (Jeff Kim) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 14:10:27 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] Looking to improve a 48V machine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <83b7b17c0910181410x443d7168tbc1c6bce89ec5da7@mail.gmail.com> You can usually add additional batteries to increase the voltage without too much risk. The main reason for this is that the motor does not generally see full pack voltage. Among other reasons, there is voltage drop during load, particularly as your batteries are depleted. I know of people that have run more than 50% higher battery voltage than the motor rating, but don't take my word for it. Jeff Kim On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 12:09 PM, Ken Potter wrote: > Looking for advice: > > My project is on the road and doing fairly well: 48V Motorcycle using 4 > AGM batteries @ 50 AH each, and an identical 5th battery for the 12V needs > (the two systems are separate except for the 12V contactor). The controller > is an Alltrax AXE, set to 70% maximum power. The motor is a Mars ME0708 > Brush-Type, Permanent Magnet DC motor, also known as the Etek-R. > > *Here are the issues*: As usual, extending the range a few more miles is > a priority. At the same time, just a little more power would be welcome for > climbing hills at moderate speeds. > > *Here are some options:* I have one more identical battery, and I'm > tempted to go up to 60V, adding 50 AH at the same time (but exceeding the > rating of the motor). Another possibility is just reprogramming the > controller to 80% of max and switching to larger batteries (groan). A > third, and less expensive option, is to add a small DC-DC converter, > eliminate the accessory battery, and save about 30 lbs. By law, the > headlight must remain on at all times. A good LED headlight would improve > matters, so the search is on. > > Any thoughts? > Ken Potter > > _______________________________________________ > Oeva-list mailing list > Oeva-list at oeva.org > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091018/60075715/attachment.html From citicar at no-url.com Sun Oct 18 14:49:25 2009 From: citicar at no-url.com (Oliver) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 14:49:25 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] Looking to improve a 48V machine In-Reply-To: <83b7b17c0910181410x443d7168tbc1c6bce89ec5da7@mail.gmail.com> References: <83b7b17c0910181410x443d7168tbc1c6bce89ec5da7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <54B80814A07044FB964683D07D2C84F4@nourl.com> I have heard the same thing. When I purchased a CitiCar a couple years ago that has a 36V motor I was told that didn't necessarily mean it was a 36V car, and that pretty much all the 48V CitiCars had 36V motors in them. I am not an expert Cheers! -Oliver ________________________________________ From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Kim Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 2:10 PM To: Ken Potter Cc: oeva-list at oeva.org Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Looking to improve a 48V machine You can usually add additional batteries to increase the voltage without too much risk.? The main reason for this is that the motor does not generally see full pack voltage.? Among other reasons, there is voltage drop during load, particularly as your batteries are depleted.? I know of people that have run more than 50% higher battery voltage than the motor rating, but don't take my word for it. Jeff Kim On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 12:09 PM, Ken Potter wrote: Looking for advice: My project is on the road and doing fairly well:? 48V Motorcycle using 4 AGM batteries @ 50 AH each, and an identical 5th battery for the 12V needs (the two systems are separate except for the 12V contactor).? The controller is an Alltrax AXE, set to 70% maximum power.? The motor is a Mars ME0708 Brush-Type, Permanent Magnet DC motor, also known as the Etek-R. Here are the issues:? As usual, extending the range a few more miles is a priority.? At the same time, just a little more power would be welcome for climbing hills at moderate speeds.? Here are some options:? I have one more identical battery, and I'm tempted to go up to 60V, adding 50 AH at the same time (but exceeding the rating of the motor).? Another possibility is just reprogramming the controller to 80% of max and switching to larger batteries (groan).? A third, and less expensive option, is to add a small DC-DC converter, eliminate the accessory battery, and save about 30 lbs.? By law, the headlight must remain on at all times.? A good LED headlight would improve matters, so the search is on. Any thoughts? Ken Potter _______________________________________________ Oeva-list mailing list Oeva-list at oeva.org http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list From patrick0101 at gmail.com Sun Oct 18 17:28:01 2009 From: patrick0101 at gmail.com (patrick0101 at gmail.com) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 17:28:01 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] Governor betting big on e-cars in Oregon Message-ID: <8c28d7b50910181728x2c9e7796ocf6fe7b7e2f1b19a@mail.gmail.com> http://www.katu.com/news/tech/64209437.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091018/fdcc326f/attachment.html From pusa411 at gmail.com Mon Oct 19 12:47:59 2009 From: pusa411 at gmail.com (PREMIUM-USA) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 15:47:59 -0400 Subject: [Oeva-list] HID vs. LED Message-ID: <793086120910191247u3f79831g8c8ec8d4fd8a2e38@mail.gmail.com> Hey guys, Right now, converting to HID (High Intensity Discharge ) Lamp, is going to be easier to find, and will provide better illumination, and does use less energy per Lumen. Since it is a mature technology. These are fairly easy to find for most bulb types, and less than a pound in weight.... Ebay has many , but the quality varies greatly as does the technology used and if they are Licensed and/or DOT approved. One of our Chinese partners is working on a point source LED that is optically correct, its' a DOT thing, for the reflector used on your vehicle's headlight assembly. We are getting close, but the price.. OOO.. The Problem with LEDs are two fold: the cooler the run, the more efficient they are; and voltage regulation is key.. We make all the bulbs on a vehicle, except High Intensity Headlights , like a CREE Module.. A std headlight uses an incandescent 55watt bulb, an efficient 6 watt LED if cooled would do it.. Currently 3 watts are getting reasonable, 5 watts are not however.. THX.. Daniel T "Bubba" Conway Premium-USA Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 12:09:15 -0700 From: Ken Potter Subject: [Oeva-list] Looking to improve a 48V machine To: oeva-list at oeva.org Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Looking for advice: My project is on the road and doing fairly well: 48V Motorcycle using 4 AGM batteries @ 50 AH each, and an identical 5th battery for the 12V needs (the two systems are separate except for the 12V contactor). The controller is an Alltrax AXE, set to 70% maximum power. The motor is a Mars ME0708 Brush-Type, Permanent Magnet DC motor, also known as the Etek-R. *Here are the issues*: As usual, extending the range a few more miles is a priority. At the same time, just a little more power would be welcome for climbing hills at moderate speeds. *Here are some options:* I have one more identical battery, and I'm tempted to go up to 60V, adding 50 AH at the same time (but exceeding the rating of the motor). Another possibility is just reprogramming the controller to 80% of max and switching to larger batteries (groan). A third, and less expensive option, is to add a small DC-DC converter, eliminate the accessory battery, and save about 30 lbs. By law, the headlight must remain on at all times. A good LED headlight would improve matters, so the search is on. Any thoughts? Ken Potter -------------- next part -------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091019/7edd4d54/attachment.html From Theoldcars at aol.com Mon Oct 19 14:13:52 2009 From: Theoldcars at aol.com (Theoldcars at aol.com) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 17:13:52 EDT Subject: [Oeva-list] Travis Headway 38120S Message-ID: Travis How did the Headway batteries perform? Did you buy some of them about a year ago. Don HeadWay Product name: Cylindrical LiFePO4 lithium-ion battery Model No.: HW 38120L(S) Specifications: 10000mAh/3.2V Add.: Tai Hu Road, Changxing Eco.&Tech. Development Zone, Changxing County, Zhejiang Province, China HeadWay NO.:HeadWay-WI-RD-01 1. specifications: NO. ITEM Specifications 3-1 Rated capactiy 10000mAh (0.5c) 3-2 Rated voltage 3.2V 3-3 Resistance =8mO 3-4 Max. charging current 2C(20A) 3-5 Max. charging voltage 3.65?0.05V 3-6 Max. charging current 15C(150A) 3-7 Terminal discharged voltage 2.0V Diameter 38?1mm 3-8 Dimensions Heigth 146?1mm 3-9 Weight Approx.300g Charging 0~45. 3-10 Working temperature Discharging -20~85. In one month -20~45. 3-11 Storage temperature In six months -20~35. *The battery shall be in the state of half ?fully charged or with the voltage of 3.2~3.3V The cycle life testing curve and discharging and charging curve at 1C of 38120 10Ah cell: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091019/b094b7c8/attachment.html From patrick0101 at gmail.com Mon Oct 19 22:34:21 2009 From: patrick0101 at gmail.com (patrick0101 at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 22:34:21 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] Charging Stations from Eugene to Vancouver BC Message-ID: <8c28d7b50910192234i326f7225ya3a5346788c12da7@mail.gmail.com> "electric corridor stretching from Eugene, Ore., to Vancouver, B.C., where you could swipe your card and receive a 15-minute quick charge" ... ?No one has ever tried a project like this.? ... "Electric cars aren?t just some green fantasy" ... "estimates by 2030 one-third of all new cars in the Northwest might be plug-in electric cars" ... "[The Nissan LEAF] will be available on a lease-to-own basis" ... This is the first time that I have ever seen NW focused xEV sales predictions. I would have like to see a link to the study. http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/northwest/story/921149.html Regards, Pat With Great Power, Comes Great Current and High Voltage =D~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091019/2c2cab8b/attachment.html From frodus17 at gmail.com Tue Oct 20 11:38:35 2009 From: frodus17 at gmail.com (Travis Gintz) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 11:38:35 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] Travis Headway 38120S In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I ordered some in May, got them in late july. They were shipped out and I've not heard of any issues from people... other than a few low cells. I had 200 cells, but when I was hired at EVComponents to do technical sales, They had a few customers that needed cells ASAP, so I sold all of mine off (I have 6 left). The latest shipment at EVComponents came in over the weekend and I'll be getting my 200 cells then. We have some independant data that shows these cells performing VERY well at high discharge rates. the IR has not been measured, but manufacturer specs are lower IR than before. They make cells for Lifebatt, so I think they changed their processes a little over the last few months. I'm hopeful. We've only had a couple DOA cells, and headway has replaced the cells. I'll definately update with results as I get them. We're preparing the CBA-II with amplifiers to test the HW cells, information is forthcoming. Regards, Travis Gintz On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 2:13 PM, wrote: > Travis > > How did the Headway batteries perform? Did you buy some of them about a > year ago. > > Don > > HeadWay > Product name: Cylindrical LiFePO4 lithium-ion battery > Model No.: HW 38120L(S) > Specifications: 10000mAh/3.2V > Add.: Tai Hu Road, Changxing Eco.&Tech. Development Zone, > Changxing County, Zhejiang Province, China > HeadWay NO.:HeadWay-WI-RD-01 > 1. specifications: > NO. ITEM Specifications > 3-1 Rated capactiy 10000mAh (0.5c) > 3-2 Rated voltage 3.2V > 3-3 Resistance =8mO > 3-4 Max. charging current 2C(20A) > 3-5 Max. charging voltage 3.65?0.05V > 3-6 Max. charging current 15C(150A) > 3-7 Terminal discharged voltage 2.0V > Diameter 38?1mm > 3-8 Dimensions > Heigth 146?1mm > 3-9 Weight Approx.300g > Charging 0~45. > 3-10 > Working > temperature > Discharging -20~85. > In one month -20~45. > 3-11 Storage temperature > In six > months > -20~35. > *The battery shall be in the state of half ?fully charged or with the > voltage of 3.2~3.3V > The cycle life testing curve and discharging and charging curve at 1C of > 38120 10Ah cell: > > _______________________________________________ > Oeva-list mailing list > Oeva-list at oeva.org > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > > -- Travis Gintz 1986 Honda VFR DC conversion Http://blog.evfr.net/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091020/3946e598/attachment.html From Theoldcars at aol.com Tue Oct 20 16:28:57 2009 From: Theoldcars at aol.com (Theoldcars at aol.com) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 19:28:57 EDT Subject: [Oeva-list] 91 Miata conversion help Message-ID: Hello Everyone Here is an email from Steve below I was trying to help. I like AC drives and NiMH or A123 batteries but this is an expensive way to go but in the long run will cost less. It is just the investment up front that is the hardship. I would recommend Steve come to a few OEVA meetings and spend some time at the show and tell before the meetings to look at other members EVs. Buy the book how to Build Your Own Electric Vehicle by Bob Brant _http://www.amazon.com/Build-Your-Own-Electric-Vehicle/dp/0830642315_ (http://www.amazon.com/Build-Your-Own-Electric-Vehicle/dp/0830642315) Spend some time on the _http://www.evalbum.com/_ (http://www.evalbum.com/) Steve is looking at this kit _http://e-volks.com/kit3.html_ (http://e-volks.com/kit3.html) Don My commute would be NE Sandy Blvd. into downtown then up the hill to the VA medical center. It?s 26 miles round trip mainly flat with the one climb at the end of the morning commute. As far as a budget, I was hoping to buy as I go if that?s the cheapest way Miller who bought an EV Ranger from you said you may be a good source of info on converting my 91 Miata into a EV commuter. Are there any local classes around here? Would I be better off with a kit or buying component parts separate? I?m about to start taking the internal combustion parts out of the car. Should I then do the body and paint work or after the EV conversion? Any help with the basics would be greatly appreciated. About 12 years ago I built my own home with polystyrofoam blocks. I took time off from work to find houses and buildings to help with before I started my own house. That experience was priceless. Are you building an EV car now? Thank you for your time!!! Steve Larson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091020/a1b48df1/attachment.html From gary.graunke at intel.com Wed Oct 21 08:37:54 2009 From: gary.graunke at intel.com (Graunke, Gary) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 08:37:54 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] FW: Infiniti Confirms Plan For A Zero Emissions Vehicle Message-ID: <9662F248D13E8C45B097A77F005E97293E2856C8@orsmsx503.amr.corp.intel.com> FYI ________________________________ From: Corporate Communications - Americas [mailto:CorporateCommunications-Americas at nissan-usa.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 7:38 AM Subject: Infiniti Confirms Plan For A Zero Emissions Vehicle Infiniti Confirms Plan For A Zero Emissions Vehicle Mr. Carlos Ghosn, President and CEO, Nissan Motor Co. Ltd., announced at the 41st Tokyo Motor Show that Infiniti plans to introduce an electric vehicle - one that will be true to the Infiniti brand's promise of "Inspired Performance." Mr. Ghosn stated that a concept is being developed for a stylish, compact, high performance four-seat luxury Infiniti with zero emissions. With the addition of a high-performance V6 diesel to Infiniti's Western Europe line in 2010, and the Infiniti M Hybrid, which will available in the U.S. in the spring of 2011, Infiniti will soon offer an almost unrivalled choice of powertrains compared with other luxury brands. About Infiniti Infiniti offers a full-line of luxury performance automobiles, including the G Coupe, Sedan and Convertible, M sedan, EX and FX crossovers, and the QX full-size SUV. More information about Infiniti and its Total Ownership Experience(r) can be found at www.InfinitiUSA.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091021/994478e1/attachment.html From phil at hochstetler.com Thu Oct 22 14:01:03 2009 From: phil at hochstetler.com (phil hochstetler) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 14:01:03 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] ClipperCreek announces new charging station available for under $1, 000 Message-ID: <37a5993b0910221401l573b7114vfab1f878c53dd88e@mail.gmail.com> links: http://tinyurl.com/yj5cgq9 http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/sacbee/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20091022005566&newsLang=en http://www.clippercreek.com/ --phil -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CS-40 RGB 175x338 Small Shadow vUS.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 19281 bytes Desc: not available Url : /pipermail/attachments/20091022/34ee9b11/attachment.jpg From gary.graunke at intel.com Thu Oct 22 14:40:10 2009 From: gary.graunke at intel.com (Graunke, Gary) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 14:40:10 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] FW: Nissan Announces Dates for Nissan LEAF Zero Emission Tour (PDX is Dec 17-23) Message-ID: <9662F248D13E8C45B097A77F005E97293E2E3371@orsmsx503.amr.corp.intel.com> FYI. We are Dec 17-23. Gary ________________________________ From: Corporate Communications - Americas [mailto:CorporateCommunications-Americas at nissan-usa.com] Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 12:01 PM Subject: Nissan Announces Dates for Nissan LEAF Zero Emission Tour For Immediate Release NISSAN ANNOUNCES DATES FOR NISSAN LEAF ZERO EMISSION TOUR LEAF makes first U.S. appearance in Los Angeles Nov. 13 FRANKLIN, Tenn. (Oct. 22, 2009) - Nissan North America announced that the Nissan LEAF zero-emission, all-electric car will make its North American debut in Los Angeles on Nov. 13. The Los Angeles showing will be the first time people in the United States will be able to see the five-passenger, five-door, gasoline-free car, which is embarking on a nationwide tour. The Nissan LEAF Zero Emission Tour will make stops in 22 cities, in 11 states, the District of Columbia, and Vancouver, Canada, offering the opportunity for interested drivers, media, civic partners, businesses and university students to learn more about the Nissan LEAF and the benefits of zero-emission driving. Follow the tour, get updates on the final schedule and specific showings, and sign up for more information, at www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electric-car. Look for the Nissan LEAF to make public appearances in the following areas during these times: Southern California Los Angeles: Nov. 13-17 Orange County: Nov. 18 San Diego: Nov. 19-21 Northern California Berkeley/Walnut Creek: Nov. 23-24 San Francisco: Nov. 25-29 Santa Rosa: Dec. 1 Sacramento: Dec. 1 San Jose: Dec. 3-6 Pacific Northwest Seattle: Dec. 8-12 Vancouver, Canada: Dec. 14-15 Portland, Ore.: Dec. 17-23 Southwest Phoenix/Tucson: Dec. 30-Jan. 5 Las Vegas: Jan. 6 Midwest/East Coast Detroit: Jan. 11-13 Knoxville/Chattanooga, Tenn.: Jan. 16 Middle Tennessee: Jan. 19-21 Washington, D.C.: Jan. 26-28 Raleigh, N.C.: Jan. 29 Orlando: Feb. 1-2 Texas Houston: Feb. 5-6 New York New York City: Feb. 9-14 Nissan is the only automaker committed to making all-electric vehicles available to the mass market on a global scale. Through the Nissan LEAF Zero Emission Tour, Nissan will be showcasing the electric vehicle and battery technology as well as the company's zero-emission mobility objectives. Nissan already has partnered on the development of an electric-vehicle infrastructure through partnerships in the State of Tennessee, the State of Oregon, Sonoma County, San Diego, Phoenix, Tucson, Washington D.C., Seattle, Raleigh, and Vancouver. Additional partnerships will be announced in the near future. In North America, Nissan's operations include automotive design, engineering, consumer and corporate financing, sales and marketing, distribution and manufacturing. Nissan is dedicated to improving the environment under the Nissan Green Program 2010, whose key priorities are reducing CO2 emissions, cutting other emissions and increasing recycling. More information on the Nissan LEAF and zero emissions can be found at www.nissan-usa.com/leaf-electric-car. # # # Contact: Katherine Zachary Nissan North America, Inc. katherine.zachary at nissan-usa.com 615-725-1447 www.nissan-zeroemission.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091022/e9bad467/attachment-0001.html From jeff.shorepower at gmail.com Fri Oct 23 01:29:11 2009 From: jeff.shorepower at gmail.com (Jeff Kim) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 01:29:11 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] Reva Electric Car Message-ID: <83b7b17c0910230129p13d810bet5aa745bc9a3b4cf4@mail.gmail.com> Anyone know if the State tried to bring this company to Oregon? Syracuse Harold: 10-21-09: http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2009/10/crucial_deal_sets_stage_for_re.html New York Times: 10-21-09: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/21/business/energy-environment/21electric.html?_r=1&dbk Jeff Kim President & CEO Shorepower Technologies 2351 NW York Street Portland, OR 97210 Office (503) 892-7345 Mobile (503) 686-8844 Fax (503) 802-7347 jkim at shorepower.com www.shorepower.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091023/d6867069/attachment.html From patrick0101 at gmail.com Sat Oct 24 12:40:51 2009 From: patrick0101 at gmail.com (patrick0101 at gmail.com) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 12:40:51 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] $42,000 Off a Roadster Message-ID: <8c28d7b50910241240s2d43a3cem509f8e20627b95fb@mail.gmail.com> Want a Tesla, but it is a little out of your price range? What if you got a $42,083 discount? People in Colorado have a big EV incentive this year. http://tinyurl.com/yfmzdro http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/10/colorado_offeri.php?smid=FBTRH-FBS-ART Regards, Pat With Great Power, Comes Great Current and High Voltage =D~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091024/69bbdbd2/attachment.html From john.p.christian at gmail.com Tue Oct 27 10:34:48 2009 From: john.p.christian at gmail.com (John Christian) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 10:34:48 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] Fwd: EV Headlines Seem to be Daily Occurances - Stories from yesterdays Seattle and LA Times In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Interesting, even if it is Seattle..... [image: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/art/ui/logo_200w.gif] * *Sunday, October 25, 2009 *Seattle** expected to be key market for electric cars* *By Katherine Long* ** ** [image: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2009/10/23/2010126617.jpg] MARK HARRISON / THE SEATTLE TIMES A Ford electric car recharges at a sustainable-communities conference at Microsoft on Friday. [image: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2009/10/24/2010130858.jpg] MARK HARRISON / THE SEATTLE TIMES U.S. Rep. Jay Inslee views an electric car: "We're trying to make Washington the epicenter of this revolution." * * After years of hype, it looks like the mass-produced, all-electric car is really on its way. Puget Sound is poised to become one of the key markets for the initial wave of electric cars, in part because of plans to begin building next year a network of more than 2,000 charging stations throughout the region. Funded by part of a $100 million federal Department of Energy (DOE) economic-stimulus grant, the charging stations are to the electric car what the cellphone-tower network was to the cellphone. Just as the phones needed towers to make them functional, the network of charging stations will make it practical to own a car that does not use gas. By December 2010, drivers in our area should be able to buy mass-produced, plug-in electrics that create no emissions and run for pennies a mile. "It's going to blow people's doors off how fast this transition is going to happen," predicted U.S. Rep. Jay Inslee, who took a spin around the Microsoft campus Friday in an all-electric Ford Focus. As part of the DOE grant, the Puget Sound area has been promised 1,000 Nissan LEAF all-electric cars, which will be sold here beginning in December 2010. But that's only the start. Because of the charging network, the Seattle area will be one of the major markets for other brands of electric cars, said Steve Marshall, a senior fellow at the Cascadia Center, a Seattle-based transportation think tank. Ford, for example, plans to bring an electric commercial van to the area in 2010, one that will run for about 3 cents a mile and is designed for small-business owners and package-delivery fleets. The electric Focus will hit the market in 2011, as will the Chevy Volt, a car that can drive the first 40 miles on electricity before a gasoline-powered engine kicks in, driving a generator that provides electric power beyond 40 miles. Inslee predicts that within a decade, a significant portion of the American car fleet will be made up of electric cars, and "we're trying to make Washington the epicenter of this revolution," he said. The car companies know it. "Washington is a lot more aggressive and more hep on this than any part of the country," said David Berdish, manager of sustainable business development for Ford Motor Co. *Meeting at Microsoft* On Friday, state and federal officials and business leaders gathered at the Microsoft campus for a Cascadia-sponsored conference called "Beyond Oil." They talked about building sustainable communities and ensuring the electrical grid could handle the power draw if thousands of people all tried to recharge their cars at the same time. Outside, a half-dozen Tesla roadsters ? all-electric sports cars that cost about $100,000 ? were lined up in the parking area. But it was the somewhat homely Ford Focus, which arrived on a flatbed truck after an overnight trip from San Francisco, that attracted the buzz, in part because it's price is expected to be within the reach of the average family when it comes to market in 2011. The Seattle area is expected to be a leader in electric cars for a couple of reasons. For one, we get most of our power from relatively cheap, carbon-neutral sources. Statewide, hydroelectric accounts for about 66 percent of our energy; for Seattle City Light, it accounts for about 90 percent, according to city and state statistics. We also have a mild climate, with summers that don't require power-sucking air conditioning and winters that don't involve battery-killing temperature plunges. And already we're crazy about hybrids, cars like the Prius that top gas mileage. Washington ranks fourth among states in the number of hybrids per 1,000 people. About 50 of the Tesla roadsters have been sold here. Finally, government officials are working to streamline the process of getting car-charging plugs installed. The state Legislature this year passed a law encouraging state and locals to develop the infrastructure to accommodate electric cars. The $100 million DOE grant is being shared by five other areas around the country: Portland, Salem, Corvallis and Eugene, Ore.; San Diego, Calif.; Phoenix and Tucson, Ariz.; and Chattanooga, Knoxville and Nashville, Tenn. Because the Portland area is also getting grant money, it's likely that the Interstate 5 corridor between Seattle and Portland will have a string of charging stations, making it possible to go between the two major cities on nothing but electricity, said Colin Read of Ecotality, the parent company of Electric Transportation Engineering (eTec), which will build the charging stations. *Powered by Metro* King County Metro is getting ready for the change. It has installed 39 110-volt public-charging stations at park-and-ride lots throughout the area, said Ron Posthuma, assistant director for Metro's Office of Regional Transportation Planning. Next year, as part of the DOE grant, Metro will put in more powerful, 240-volt charging stations at park-and-ride lots. That's the standard voltage needed to charge an all-electric car, requiring a plug that resembles the one you use for your clothes dryer. For legions of electric-car buffs in the Seattle area, the future can't come fast enough. A number of drivers have bought extra battery kits to turn regular hybrids into plug-in electric hybrids, which can dramatically increase the car's miles per gallon if driven carefully. Toyota Prius driver Stephen Jensen, who lives on the Sammamish Plateau, installed a second battery in his 2004 Prius, allowing him to drive the car at higher speeds on all-electric power. He plugs it in at a Metro park-and-ride lot while he takes the bus to work in Seattle. If he drives carefully, he can average 90 to 95 miles a gallon. Charging your car at a park-and-ride is still in its infancy. Just four drivers tap into them regularly, and the county is not yet asking users to pay. Posthuma said the charging stations won't remain free in the future, although how to charge for them is another puzzle to be worked out. Bruce Agnew, director of the Cascadia Center, has seen electric cars go from a quirky passion shared by some Northwest drivers to a mainstream interest. Six years ago, during the institute's first conference on transportation, technology and energy, the parking lot was full of funny-looking cars, Agnew said, and the institute could barely find enough people to fill a one-day agenda. This year, Ford came courting. The lot was full of electric cars. And the institute had to turn participants away. *Katherine Long: 206-464-2219 or klong at seattletimes.com* *>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>* *LA Times* Electric vehicles are charging up the automotive industry A dozen all-electric or plug-in hybrid vehicles are expected to hit the market in the next three years. They promise to combine blinding fuel efficiency, radical new technology and futuristic styling. [image: Nissan Leaf] Although Nissan will start mainly with fleet sales, a few all-electric Leafs (Leaves?) will be available to individuals before a larger rollout in 2012. Nissan hopes to eventually build this relatively low-cost entrant in Tennessee. (Itsuo Inouye / Associated Press) Next time you're filling up the cavernous fuel tank of the gas-gulping family jalopy, imagine getting 230 miles per gallon. Better yet, how about never buying another gallon of gas? After years of hope and hype, electron-powered driving finally appears to be on the verge of reality. In the next three years, at least a dozen pure electric or plug-in hybrid cars are slated to hit the market in the U.S. Electricity-driven vehicles from giants such as General Motors Co. and Nissan Motor Co., as well as start-ups like Fisker Automotive Inc. in Irvine, will provide consumers with a wide variety of choices. These new vehicles promise to combine blinding fuel efficiency, radical new technology and futuristic styling that makes the hybrid Toyota Prius look downright staid. Battery makers and automakers alike are tooling up factories to produce big volumes of electric vehicles. Meanwhile, power utilities and regulators are scrambling to figure out just how big the market will be. "This is happening and it's happening soon," said Mark Duvall, director of electric transportation at the Electric Power Research Institute, an independent, nonprofit research group. "By the end of 2011, consumers will have more choices in vehicles they can plug in than they currently do for hybrids." The electric vehicles will be arriving at a good time. With gasoline prices creeping up once again and federal regulations calling for huge fuel economy gains in the next half-decade, there's increasing demand for cars that burn less fuel, make less noise and push automotive technology forward. In August, President Obama set a national goal of getting 1 million plug-in vehicles on the road by 2015. It took about twice as long to get a million hybrids rolling on U.S. streets and highways. But any new technology that involves high-voltage, exotic battery chemistries and 3,500-pound objects hurtling forward at high speed is bound to hit some potholes. Early adopters, experts say, will have to contend with charging infrastructure challenges and some pretty long waiting lists. And did we mention price? Even the least expensive electric or plug-in car will cost more than $25,000, and most will come in closer to twice that. "There will be some real challenges at first," said Roland Hwang, vehicle policy director at the Natural Resources Defense Council. "These are going to cost more than conventional cars. The infrastructure is not going to take care of itself. These issues will determine whether this is a trickle or a massive flood." For those willing to take the leap, however, there is plenty to be excited about. *Restarting electrics* Electric cars are hardly new. In fact, a century ago, around the time of the dawn of the automobile, there were as many electric as gasoline-powered cars. But technological limitations eventually killed those early EVs, and electric cars didn't truly raise their heads again until the late 1990s. That's when a smattering of electrics, including the much-lamented GM EV1, were made available in California as part of a government-mandated test program. Wildly popular among a select group of enthusiasts, they were officially declared unfeasible and unprofitable by automakers. Today, only a few hundred are still on the road, among them a Toyota RAV4 EV driven by Paul Scott, co-founder of electric vehicle activist group Plug In America. Nobody was happier than Scott when Tesla Motors Inc., a San Carlos, Calif., automaker, last year began selling its all-electric Roadster, a rocket of a two-seater that noiselessly goes from zero to 60 mph in less than four seconds. True, the Roadster costs $109,000. And it has a waiting list longer than Sunset Boulevard. But to people like Scott, its arrival signaled the coming of a new electric era. "This time electric cars are here to stay," said Scott, who envisions charging cars using solar power, making them essentially cost-free to operate. **Tesla and other nimble start-ups have helped jump-start the industry. Now big automakers are getting their electric programs in gear. That's no minor development considering the titanic capital costs involved in developing high-volume-production vehicles. For Ford Motor Co., better batteries were key. Previous technologies were just too heavy and inefficient, said Nancy Gioia, the automaker's director of global electrification. "They weren't ready for mass production," she said. But in the last couple of years, huge improvements and new battery chemistries "opened the opportunity" for ambitious product plans, she said. Gioia predicts that as many as a quarter of new vehicles sold by 2020 will be electrics, plug-in hybrids or traditional hybrids. *Challenges ahead* Yet even the fiercest electric advocates admit that battery reliability still has room for improvement. Arthur Krieger, a retired police officer in Los Angeles, drives a Prius powered by a relatively small nickel metal hydride battery to assist the gasoline engine. The battery needed replacement after nine years on the road. That's when Krieger got a nasty surprise: A new one would cost more than $4,800. "That cost will wipe out the entire cost savings of having a hybrid in the first place," Krieger said. The price would be even higher on an all-electric vehicle using the latest chemistry: lithium ion. Already widely used in cellphones, watches and laptops, those batteries have storage, charging and weight characteristics that make them superior to previous technologies -- with premium prices to match. A replacement battery for a Tesla Roadster costs $30,000, and it can move the car only 200 or so miles before it needs to be recharged. That's a 3 1/2 -hour process on a high-powered charger, 30 hours on regular household current. Then there is the matter of exactly where to re-juice all those electrics. Some experts believe that public charging stations will be the best solution, either those put up by state and local governments or, perhaps, private for-profit companies. At present there is almost no such infrastructure. Building a nationwide network would cost tens of billions of dollars. That means most electric owners will be charging at home initially. Plug-in hybrids, which primarily run on batteries but also have gasoline-powered engines to supplement range and power, can get by on standard household current. They're ready to roll in five or six hours. All-electric cars, however, can take well over a day to charge unless owners invest thousands of dollars in home electrical upgrades. That's because a fully electric vehicle calls for a 240-volt, 40-amp circuit, far above the limits of the socket in a typical garage, said Ed Kjaer, director of electric transportation at Southern California Edison. Another issue, he added, is that "not everyone has access to a garage or other place to plug into," including apartment dwellers or people in urban areas that depend on street parking. "Plug-in cars are not for everybody at this point," said Kjaer, who expects that infrastructure such as public charging stations will eventually help level the playing field. *A rewarding experience* For those willing (and able) to take the plunge, however, the rewards of owning electrified cars could include the financial kind. Thanks to a provision in last year's $700-billion Wall Street bailout legislation, buyers of electric or plug-in hybrid cars can qualify for a tax credit of as much as $7,500. Routine maintenance could be a bargain too. Since these vehicles use simple electric motors rather than complex gasoline or diesel engines, as well as pared-down or in some cases nonexistent transmissions, they are far easier to service than conventional vehicles. There's no oil to change, no radiator to flush. There are other perks as well. In California, electric vehicles still qualify for special stickers that permit their drivers to travel solo in the state's carpool lanes. The stickers expire in 2011, but lawmakers are considering extending the privilege until 2016. It's unclear whether plug-in hybrids will qualify. With all the excitement brewing over electric vehicles, it's easy to forget that 98% of the cars sold in America still have traditional drivetrains. Simply put, the gasoline engine isn't going to disappear overnight. Even the most vociferous boosters of plug-in vehicles admit that the greater range and lower cost of internal combustion-powered cars and trucks mean they'll dominate vehicle sales for at least another decade or two. And for some applications, like hauling a trailer over the Rockies, they may never go away. But for people like Chelsea Sexton, who drove an EV1 and now advises Silicon Valley firm VantagePoint Venture Partners on electric transportation, the next few years offer a tantalizing glimpse of a future with a lot less internal combustion. "I really relate to the pure electric experience," said Sexton, who has test-driven the Chevy Volt, due out late next year, and liked it. "If I had a magic wand, we'd have four different configurations of electric cars and plug-ins to choose from tomorrow." ken.bensinger at latimes.com Copyright ? 2009, The Los Angeles Times -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091027/35ae9718/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 16718 bytes Desc: not available Url : /pipermail/attachments/20091027/35ae9718/attachment-0003.jpe -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 1765 bytes Desc: not available Url : /pipermail/attachments/20091027/35ae9718/attachment-0001.gif -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 16841 bytes Desc: not available Url : /pipermail/attachments/20091027/35ae9718/attachment-0005.jpe From gary.graunke at intel.com Wed Oct 28 09:51:05 2009 From: gary.graunke at intel.com (Graunke, Gary) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 09:51:05 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] FW: Renault-Nissan Alliance Signs Zero Emission Partnership with Mexico City and Vancouver Message-ID: <9662F248D13E8C45B097A77F005E97293E430ABC@orsmsx503.amr.corp.intel.com> FYI ________________________________ From: Corporate Communications - Americas [mailto:CorporateCommunications-Americas at nissan-usa.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 9:47 AM Subject: Renault-Nissan Alliance Signs Zero Emission Partnership with Mexico City and Vancouver [cid:image002.jpg at 01CA57C4.1C55EC00] For Immediate Release Renault-Nissan Alliance Signs Zero-Emission Partnership with Mexico City Government MEXICO CITY, (October 28, 2009) - The Renault-Nissan Alliance and the Mexico City Government today announced a partnership that paves the way for the introduction of the Nissan LEAF in Mexico's capital city in 2011. Mexico City will become the first city in Latin America to receive the Nissan LEAF and is part of the Mexico City government Green Plan (Plan Verde) committed to reduce CO2 emissions from vehicles by promoting battery-electric vehicles. The memorandum of understanding, signed by the authorities and Nissan, brings together representatives from each organization to identify opportunities to promote the use of zero-emission vehicles in Mexico City. "Today is a historic day for the Renault-Nissan Alliance and Mexico City." Carlos Tavares, President of Nissan Americas, said. "We are signing a Memorandum of Understanding in order to introduce electric vehicles in Mexico's capital. Zero-emission leadership is a core commitment for the Renault-Nissan Alliance. We are delighted to share a common vision for a cleaner world with Mr. Ebrard's administration." "Bringing the electric vehicle to the Mexico City market is a natural progression of Nissan's leadership and heritage in Mexico." Jos? Mu?oz, President of Nissan Mexicana, said. "Working with important partners like Mexico City is a critical step in our continued and lasting commitment to the Mexican society." Marking its tenth anniversary this year, the Renault-Nissan Alliance is leading a collaborative approach with both business and governments and has signed more than 30 other agreements worldwide with partners to launch its fist electric vehicle starting 2010 and to mass market a full range of electrical vehicles by 2012. Today, with this initiative, Mexico City joins this approach. The Nissan LEAF is the first vehicle to be launched under this agreement. It provides a quiet, efficient driving experience with a range of about 160 Km (100 Miles). The five-door, five-passenger hatchback is an electric motor and battery operated car (all-electric car) with absolutely no polluting emissions. No internal combustion engine and fossil oil-based fuel are needed. Its electric motor supplies 80 kW of power (107 hp) and 280 N-m (207 lb-ft) of direct torque to its wheels, providing a rapid response and a powerful acceleration. The Renault Nissan Alliance The Renault Nissan Alliance, founded in 1999, sold 6 090 304 vehicles in 2008. The objective of the Alliance is to rank among the world's top three vehicle manufacturers in terms of quality, technology and profitability. Nissan Mexicana, S.A. de C.V. Subsidiary of Nissan Motor Co., Ltd. and it was established in Mexico in 1961. It is comprised by corporate, marketing and sales, manufacturing, distribution and design facilities located in the cities of Aguascalientes, Cuernavaca, Mexico and Toluca. It currently employs approximately 8,000 workers and employees. In 2008, it commercialized more than 212,000 vehicles in Mexico, with a 20.7% market share and it produced over 450,000 units for the domestic and exports markets. In 2009, up to the month of September, it has been the market leader by commercializing 106,494 vehicles, with a 20.1% market share, and up to this month, it has produced 247,505 units. Nissan is focused on improving the environment under the Nissan Green Program 2010, being its main objectives to reduce CO2 emissions, eliminate other types of emissions and to increase recycling. Renault Mexico S. A. de C. V. Subsidiary of Renault group, it was re-established in collaboration of its partner Nissan Mexicana S. A. de C.V. in January 2000. In December 2000, Renault and Nissan announce the first Alliance manufacturing product in Cuernavaca Nissan plant: Scenic. In March 2001, Renault inaugurates its first franchise in Mexico City. In December 2001, the first Clio was manufacture in Aguascalientes Nissan plant. Up to December 2008, Renault Mexico had produced 81 449 units under Nissan's manufacturing facilities and sold 136 846 vehicles on his 50 franchises around Mexico. In September 2009 Renault's participation in the Mexican market was 1.71%. In line with Renault eco2 environmental policy, Renault Z.E. electric vehicles are poised to be marketed on a large scale with a view to taking a decisive stand on the environmental front. Green Plan Mexico City The Green Plan is the mid-term plan of Mexico City that contains the strategies and actions to drive the city towards development sustainability for it to continue being an adequate space for its inhabitants without affecting the natural heritage that makes it viable. The Green Plan considers an entire environmental agenda (Environmental Agenda for Mexico City. Environmental Program 2007-2012), and its main aim is focused on driving Mexico City towards sustainability since, as most cities of the new century, the metropolis is in demand of medium and long term policies and actions to guarantee its ecologic feasibility. The Agenda represents a group of unprecedented actions to improve the life quality of its inhabitants and to achieve the aim of the Government of Mexico City focused on transforming it into the greenest city in Latin America; but mainly, it responds to the legitimate demand of having policies that foster measures against the environmental deterioration. CONTACT: Diego Arrazola Nissan Mexicana, S.A de C.V. Phone: (52) 55 5628 - 2727 e-mail: diego.arrazola at nissan.com.mx M?nica P?rez Renault M?xico S.A. de C.V Phone: (52) 55 9183 - 5502 e-mail:monica.bardies at renault.com Ang?lica Pati?o Mexico City Government Media Relations Phone: (52) 55 5345 - 8000 e-mail: comsocgobiernodf at gmail.com [cid:image002.jpg at 01CA57C4.1C55EC00] For Immediate Release Renault-Nissan Alliance Signs Zero-Emission Partnership in Vancouver Vancouver, BC (Oct. 6, 2009) - The Renault-Nissan Alliance, the Province of British Columbia, the City of Vancouver and BC Hydro announced today a partnership that will see British Columbia become the initial launch point for Nissan's Canadian zero-emission transportation program. British Columbia is scheduled to be the first Canadian province to receive the Nissan LEAF, Nissan's first all-electric real-world car, in 2011, in advance of global distribution in 2012. "Agreements like this one with the Renault-Nissan Alliance are an important step in making climate-friendly transportation a lifestyle choice for all British Columbians," said Blair Lekstrom, Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources, Province of British Columbia. "Electric vehicles, fuelled by clean, renewable energy resources, will help us achieve a low carbon transportation future." The memorandum of understanding brings together representatives from each organization to identify opportunities to promote the use of zero-emission vehicles in Vancouver and other areas in B.C. Discussions will also explore the establishment of charging infrastructure in Vancouver. "Today is an exciting day for Nissan Canada as we announce an important step in making electric vehicles a reality in the Canadian market," said Mark Grimm, President of Nissan Canada Inc. "We have the technology for zero-emission mobility without compromise and working with important partners like those signing this agreement is a critical step in this evolution." "Moving towards a zero-emission mobility program gets Vancouver closer to our goal of becoming the world's greenest city," said Vancouver Mayor Gregor Robertson. "We've moved very aggressively to bring in electric vehicle charging infrastructure regulations for Vancouver that is a first for North America. The City will need electric vehicles to charge on that new infrastructure. We are very pleased to be the first Canadian municipal partner of Nissan, a global leader in electric-vehicle technologies." The agreement also supports an application to the federal government's Clean Energy Fund for a charging infrastructure pilot program planned by the Province, BC Hydro and the City of Vancouver. "We continue to work with industry and government partners to ensure British Columbia is ready for the introduction of electric vehicles," said Bob Elton, President and CEO of BC Hydro. "We are building a conservation culture in B.C. which includes not only the efficient use of electricity but also the protection of air quality." The agreement adds B.C. to a growing network of zero-emission vehicle initiatives across the world. The Renault-Nissan Alliance has formed partnerships with 30 governments, cities and other organizations to advance the deployment of electric vehicles worldwide. About Nissan Canada Inc. Nissan Canada Inc. (NCI) is the Canadian sales, marketing and distribution subsidiary of Nissan Motor Limited and Nissan North America, Inc. With offices in Vancouver (BC), Mississauga (ON), and Kirkland (QC), NCI directly employs 250 full-time staff. There are 150 independent Nissan dealerships and 29 Infiniti retailers across Canada. Nissan is dedicated to improving the environment under the Nissan Green Program 2010, whose key priorities are reducing CO2 emissions, cutting other emissions and increasing recycling. More information about Nissan in Canada and the complete line of Nissan and Infiniti vehicles can be found online at www.nissan.ca and www.infiniti.ca. Renault-Nissan Alliance has begun ZEV initiatives in Kanagawa Prefecture and Yokohama in Japan, as well as in Israel, Denmark, Portugal, Monaco, the UK, France, Switzerland, Ireland, China and Hong Kong. In the United States, the Alliance is exploring ways to promote zero-emission mobility and the development of an EV infrastructure in the State of Tennessee, the State of Oregon, Washington, DC, Sonoma County and San Diego in California, Tucson and Phoenix in Arizona, Seattle in Washington and Raleigh in North Carolina. About BC Hydro BC Hydro is a commercial Crown corporation owned by the Province of British Columbia. BC Hydro is one of North America's leading providers of clean, renewable energy and the largest electric utility in British Columbia, serving approximately 95 per cent of the province's population and 1.8 million customers. About the City of Vancouver Vancouver is consistently rated one of the most livable cities in the world. The city of Vancouver is known for its breath-taking natural environment, diverse communities, and commitment to the values of innovation, sustainability, inclusivity and accessibility, Vancouver is the Host City for the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games. Vancouver's goal is to become the world's greenest city by 2020. Vancouver is well on the way to being a plug-in friendly city. The City is changing its building and parking bylaws to allow for vehicle charging points. Vancouver already allows slower-moving electric cars on most streets. About the Province of British Columbia British Columbia is a leader in climate change solutions, and the increased use of plug-in electric vehicle technology is part of a broader sustainable energy strategy that is helping the Province of British Columbia reach its goal of curbing greenhouse gas emissions by 33 per cent by 2020. In addition, plug-in electric vehicles, fueled by B.C.'s clean energy resources, support the Province's goal of reducing the carbon intensity of transportation fuels by 10 per cent by 2020. CONTACTS: Didier Marsaud Heather Meehan Nissan Canada Inc. Nissan Canada Inc. p. 905.629.6400 p. 647.259.3268 e. didier.marsaud at nissancanada.com e. heather.meehan at cohnwolfe.ca Simi Heer Corporate Communications BC Hydro City of Vancouver p. 604.623.3963 p. 604.871.6336 e. simi.heer at bchydro.com Jake Jacobs Ministry of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources p. 250.952.0628 e. jake.jacobs at gov.bc.ca -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20091028/869333b4/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 7718 bytes Desc: image002.jpg Url : /pipermail/attachments/20091028/869333b4/attachment-0001.jpg From tim_kutscha at yahoo.com Sat Oct 31 08:52:09 2009 From: tim_kutscha at yahoo.com (Tim Kutscha) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 08:52:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Oeva-list] ChargeCar project at CMU Message-ID: <765203.741.qm@web110504.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi All, Here's a video from a professor at Carnegie Mellon about trying to apply EV technology today to meet commuter needs: http://www.wikio.com/video/1892193 Cheers, Tim From gfifield at onlinenw.com Sat Oct 31 11:48:30 2009 From: gfifield at onlinenw.com (gfifield at onlinenw.com) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 11:48:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Oeva-list] ChargeCar project at CMU In-Reply-To: <765203.741.qm@web110504.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <765203.741.qm@web110504.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Great talk; worth the hour. Last night PBS had on NOW. "Electric Car Dreams" http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/544/index.html This week, NOW investigates how the Danish government and Better Place are working together to put electric cars into the hands of as many Danish families as possible. The idea is still having trouble getting out of the garage here in America, but Denmark could be an inspiration. Will so much green enthusiasm bring about a "Copenhagen Protocol"? This show is part of a series on social entrepreneurs at work that we call "Enterprising Ideas." *********************************** Gene Fifield > Hi All, > > Here's a video from a professor at Carnegie Mellon about trying to apply > EV technology today to meet commuter needs: > > http://www.wikio.com/video/1892193 > > Cheers, > Tim > > > > _______________________________________________ > Oeva-list mailing list > Oeva-list at oeva.org > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list >