[Oeva-list] I think the list would enjoy this.. Please list..
gfifield at onlinenw.com
gfifield at onlinenw.com
Sat Oct 3 20:12:24 PDT 2009
Dear OEVA-list members and Bubba,
OK I just can't stand this diatribe infiltrating a rather forward thinking
group, and I have to comment.
First of all, my violin comes out when we talk about the 30% tax bracket.
There is now a 34% tax bracket and a 28% tax bracket.
The 34% tax bracket goes from $208,851 – $372,950 for a married couple.
I don't know many "Joe Consumers" in that tax bracket.
http://www.answers.com/topic/tax-bracket#Tax_brackets_in_the_United_States
I should be so lucky to pay this tax rate!
My advice to those that lament paying too much taxes:
MAKE LESS MONEY.
Isn't it about time they pay it back?
They got fantastic tax breaks over the last 8 years.
Due to the economy in Oregon, one in eight workers is not working
(actually much higher), and in a very low tax bracket; probably the 10%
tax bracket after deductions, possibly owing no money at all due to
multiple deductions.
The point of the Cash for Clunkers was to remove polluting vehicles from
the road, reduce gas consumption, reduce greenhouse gasses, help rescue
car dealers and manufactures and their employees and to stimulate the
economy in general. The multiplicative effects are tremendous.
Why do we get these postings painting a dark picture of very successful
"socialistic" programs?
Bubba does make some points that are valid concerning dealer pricing.
However shopping around some good deals could still be made. Proof that
free enterprise still thrives in America.
However in a general sense he might be on topic, just on the wrong side.
A lot of tax law is put into place to change our behavior. I'm a big
proponent of this approach. Taxes on cigarettes being one example. We in
this group are interested in electric vehicles for a variety of reasons;
some of them being the betterment of our planet and society, others are
just geeks interested in the technology, I'm probably both.
One of the distortions the tax codes have made, is to make it more
attractive to facilitate a move away from oil based transportation to
electric. I'm not naive and understand that this is very complex and still
ultimately is carbon based at the source of most generators in Oregon, but
that will change with other incentives moving us toward renewable
resources, or at least non carbon based. So I welcome Fedzilla to step up
to the plate and change the incentives to make the change come quickly. We
in the NW want electric vehicles and encourage their development here.
Where Bubba really is off base for this OEVA posting rules is his not so
disguised attach on the Obama administration and it's "agenda." The
reference to "Chicago politics gone global...with an agenda" is obviously
out of the right wing playbook, and doesn't belong in this posting.
The reference to the ". . Einsteins who want to take control of our health
care system. Hold on to your wallet!!" is again another attack, and
doesn't belong on this posting.
Lets get back to batteries, motors, charging stations and great news about
how our economy will be fueled by American innovation.
Gene
>
> Your link (snopes) does not support your claim that this posting "is
mostly false" at all. Your link references fuel consumption savings and
payback/breakeven estimates and this posting refers to layout costs,
taxes, and dealer pricing games.
>
> Although you think it may be funny, it is not to many concerned
> citizens.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On
Behalf Of patrick0101 at gmail.com
> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 9:04 PM
> To: OEVA; pusa411 at gmail.com
> Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] I think the list would enjoy this.. Please list..
>
> Although this might be funny, it is mostly false.
>
> http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/clunkers.asp
>
> Please keep messages to this list on topic.
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 2:25 PM, PREMIUM-USA <pusa411 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>From a real "Car Guy" out in Los Angeles , CA .
> ______________________________________________________________
> SO...you took FEDZILLA up on its offer of $4500. dollars to trade in
your old "Clunker" (interesting choice of words)? Well, let's see who
got the best of that "deal"...
> If you traded in a clunker worth $3500, you got $4500 off for an
apparent "savings" of $1000. You could have gotten $3,500 if you had
just traded the car in. So you really are $1,000 ahead (depending on
your clunker's value) at this point. Not too bad...
>
> However, you WILL have to pay taxes on the $4500 come April 15th
(something that no auto dealer will tell you). If you are in the 30%
tax bracket, you will pay $1350 on that $4500.
>
> So, rather than save $1000, you will actually pay an extra $350. to the
feds. In addition, you traded in a car that was most likely paid for.
Now you have 4 or 5 years of payments on a car that you did not need,
trading in a "clunker" that was costing you less to run than the
payments that you will now be making.. Even if you save $1,000. dollars
a year in gas due to better mileage, you're still gonna be in the red
for five years....hello?
>
> But wait, it gets even better: you also got ripped off by the dealer.
For example, the month before the "cash for clunkers" program started,
every dealer here in LA was selling the Ford Focus with all the goodies
including A/C, auto transmission, power windows, etc for $12,500.
because competition was stiff due to poor sales from the stalled
economy.
>
> When "cash for clunkers" came along, they stopped discounting them and
instead sold them at the list price of $15,500.. So, you paid $3000
more than you would have the month before. Honda, Toyota , and Kia
played the same list price game that Ford and Chevy did. Now let's do
the math...
> You traded in a car worth: $3500
> You got a discount of: $4500
> ---------
> Net so far +$1000
> But you have to pay: $1350 in taxes on the $4500
> --------
> Net so far: -$350 (that's minus...in the red)
And you paid: $3000 more than the car was selling
for the month before
> ----------
> Net Loss: -$3350
>
> We could also add in the additional taxes (sales tax, state tax, dealer
prep, etc...) on the extra $3000 that you paid for the car, along with
the Five years of interest on the car loan; but let's just stop here
while you kick yourself. Suffice it to say that those costs will be
much higher than any savings you get from "better mileage".
>
> So who actually made out on the deal? FEDZILLA collected taxes on the
car along with taxes on the $4500 they "gave" you. The car dealers made
an extra $3000 or more on every car they sold along with the kickbacks
from the manufacturers and the loan companies. Manufacturers got to
dump lots of cars they could not give away the month before. Lots of
good or repairable used cars got taken off the market, crushed and sold
as scrap metal to (ready for this?) CHINA ! (Look it up...) And the
poor consumer got saddled with even more debt that they cannot afford.
>
>
> FEDZILLA'S merry men (who promised that people making less than
> $250,000. would pay "not one red cent more in taxes") will make millions
in new tax revenues after convincing Joe Consumer that he was getting
$4500 in "free" money from the "government" In fact, Joe was giving away
his $3500 car and paying an additional $3350 for the privilege.
> Chicago politics gone global...with an agenda.
>
> If you find errors in this math, please let me know...being a simple
guy, I'm always willing to learn new things; and if you took "advantage"
of the Clunkers deal, I have some swamp land down in Florida that's for
sale...
>
> And remember, these are the same Einsteins who want to take control of
our health care system. Hold on to your wallet!!
>
>
>
> THX..
> Daniel T "Bubba" Conway
>
> Premium-EV
>
>
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