[Oeva-list] Oeva-list Digest, Vol 76, Issue 7 Chevron Blocking of NiMH batteries
mark barthemer
morbiusx1 at hotmail.com
Fri Feb 5 16:43:29 PST 2010
Janet - Thanks for the message. My mention of the refusal of Chevron (or whichever oil company that now owns the patent) to license the Ovonics NiMH traction batteries for further EV use (including plug-in hybrids and replacements for the original NiMH pack in the electric RAV-4) was not just rhetorical. I don't know if the issue has been dealt with on this site, but if ever a subject seemed ripe for a Congressional inquiry, this is it - combining as it does the rosy glow of corporation-bashing with what seems like a real instance of the strategic use of a patent solely to strangle a rival technology, with real harm to the public. I may have missed something, but I don't recall seeing this in the mainstream media - it is only the EV & alt-energy sites that have discussed it. Can we light a fire under someone, especially in an election year?
Thanks for the soapbox. Mark Parthemer
> From: oeva-list-request at oeva.org
> Subject: Oeva-list Digest, Vol 76, Issue 7
> To: oeva-list at oeva.org
> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 15:55:14 -0800
>
> Send Oeva-list mailing list submissions to
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>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: "Thousands" of Pinto deaths etc. (Janet Redhawk)
> 2. How about a little irony with that hybrid (steve boser)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 14:54:37 -0800 (PST)
> From: Janet Redhawk <cyberdyke_1 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] "Thousands" of Pinto deaths etc.
> To: oeva-list at oeva.org
> Message-ID: <432315.11921.qm at web52608.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Mark,
>
> thank you for bring the facts to the discussion.
>
> I stand corrected on the number of people killed by the Pinto.
>
> J
>
>
>
> --- On Fri, 2/5/10, mark barthemer <morbiusx1 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > From: mark barthemer <morbiusx1 at hotmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Oeva-list Digest, Vol 76, Issue 5 "Thousands" of Pinto deaths etc.
> > To: oeva-list at oeva.org
> > Date: Friday, February 5, 2010, 2:48 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > J wrote, among other things -
> > If you want to talk obfuscation let's talk about
> > Ford and the Pinto. Thousands of people were killed and
> > Ford took the line that it wasn't their problem.
> > Finally after YEARS of people getting killed they FINALLY
> > relented and recalled the car. The problem: a $.50 part
> > that isolated the tail pipe or muffler for going into the
> > gas tank. Ford thought it was cheaper to pay all the
> > lawsuits than to recall the cars and put on the part. This
> > is all facts, look 'em up.
> >
> > The facts, indeed.? Actually, design-related deaths
> > were closer to 27, not "thousands," and the Pinto
> > had better overall fatality rates than the contemporary
> > Beetle, Datsun 1200/210 & others - it was in the middle
> > of the pack.? It was not a fifty cent part, more like
> > $9 to $11 (I can hear the moans, but that's the analysis
> > every manufacturer faces).? And the gas tank ran into
> > the differential, not tail pipe.? See Prof Gary
> > Schwartz, 43 Newark Law Rev. 1013.? If you want to
> > discuss this further without clogging the OEVA site, feel
> > free to send your facts to me at my personal email
> > address.? He concludes it was neither a great car nor a
> > horrid one.? The folk memory of thousands of deaths is
> > the disturbing thing.? Corporations don't always do
> > the right thing, but I'd rather see a discussion of an
> > OEVA-relevant subject, like the Chevron refusal to license
> > the batteries in the Prius and Rav4 Electric for further
> > automotive uses - that's a scandal, and it gives support
> > to all the snake oil peddlers who claim their brilliant
> > ideas are suppressed by the Oil Companies.? But Pinto
> > is old news, usually poorly remembered.
> >
> > Mark Parthemer morbiusx1 at hotmail.com
> >
> >
> > > From: oeva-list-request at oeva.org
> > > Subject: Oeva-list Digest, Vol 76, Issue 5
> > > To: oeva-list at oeva.org
> > > Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 09:23:42 -0800
> > >
> > > Send Oeva-list mailing list submissions to
> > > oeva-list at oeva.org
> > >
> > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web,
> > visit
> > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
> > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body
> > 'help' to
> > > oeva-list-request at oeva.org
> > >
> > > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > > oeva-list-owner at oeva.org
> > >
> > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is
> > more specific
> > > than "Re: Contents of Oeva-list digest..."
> > >
> > >
> > > Today's Topics:
> > >
> > > 1. Re: Oeva-list Digest, (Peakfoto Digital Photo
> > Still n Video)
> > > 2. Re: Prius brake problems? (Myles Twete)
> > > 3. Prius brake problems? (Theoldcars at aol.com)
> > > 4. Re: Prius brake problems? (Janet Redhawk)
> > > 5. Re: Prius brake problems? (Myles Twete)
> > > 6. Re: Prius brake problems? (Janet Redhawk)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 1
> > > Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 12:29:21 -0800
> > > From: "Peakfoto Digital Photo Still n Video"
> > <ken at peakfoto.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Oeva-list Digest,
> > > To: <oeva-list at oeva.org>
> > > Message-ID:
> > <0CBD778274CB4DC2AC1332D2E4BEC2A7.MAI at exovian.net>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain;
> > charset="us-ascii"
> > >
> > > Any one a a good one at a reasonable price for AGM,
> > and SLA or floddies?
> > >
> > > how about this..
> > http://home.comcast.net/~ddenhardt201263/desulfator/desulf.htm
> > >
> > > or
> > >
> > > http://www.batterytechsolutions.com/desulfator
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 2
> > > Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 14:35:24 -0800
> > > From: "Myles Twete"
> > <matwete at comcast.net>
> > > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Prius brake problems?
> > > To: <oeva-list at oeva.org>
> > > Message-ID:
> > <004201caa5ea$5a42fbb0$0ec8f310$@net>
> > > Content-Type:
> > text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> > >
> > > I like it--he says that while his Prius seems to have
> > software problems
> > > linked to sudden acceleration under cruise control, he
> > isn't worried about
> > > it because his brakes work and he has a "radar
> > system that regulates
> > > distance from other cars by slowing it down".
> > > -mt
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org
> > [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On
> > > Behalf Of gfifield at onlinenw.com
> > > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 6:46 AM
> > > To: Myles Twete
> > > Cc: oeva-list at oeva.org
> > > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Prius brake problems?
> > >
> > > Apple's co-founder Wozniak's Prius problems:
> > >
> > http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100203/bs_afp/usjapanautotoyotarecallapple
> > >
> > > http://bit.ly/9z3VJr
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "report suggests is that sometimes the
> > braking system in the Prius can
> > > > stop
> > > > working on bumpy and slippery roads."
> > > >
> > > >
> > http://www.mibz.com/5265-new-trouble-for-toyota-prius-brake-problems.html
> > > >
> > > > Toyota's now looking at a Prius recall for
> > this.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -mt
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Oeva-list mailing list
> > > > Oeva-list at oeva.org
> > > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Oeva-list mailing list
> > > Oeva-list at oeva.org
> > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 3
> > > Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 18:08:45 EST
> > > From: Theoldcars at aol.com
> > > Subject: [Oeva-list] Prius brake problems?
> > > To: oeva-list at oeva.org
> > > Message-ID: <17317.5bac3a80.389cad7d at aol.com>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain;
> > charset="us-ascii"
> > >
> > >
> > > I have had the following problem with many antilock
> > brakes.
> > >
> > > Every time you go over a wet manhole cover or even a
> > wet slick painted
> > > area. When the one wheel hits before another or one by
> > itself with the brakes
> > > on. The few hundreds of a second the wheel would have
> > locked up triggers the
> > > antilock brakes to kick in. The vehicle stops much
> > slower because the problem
> > > the system senses is only for a couple of feet. The
> > system delays the
> > > vehicle stopping by rapidly pulsing on all the wheels
> > and this vastly extends
> > > your stopping distance. Just about 100% of the time it
> > is reacting to an event
> > > that would not have been a control problem and I hate
> > it. This always seems
> > > to happen at slow speeds and it always seems to do it
> > at a critical time.
> > > Like 20 or 30 feet before your going to hit something.
> >
> > >
> > > I am not a tailgater but when I am coming to a stop I
> > have expectations
> > > that I will come to a stop in a predictable way.
> > >
> > > Don
> > >
> > > In a message dated 2/4/2010 12:00:17 PM Pacific
> > Standard Time,
> > > oeva-list-request at oeva.org writes:
> > >
> > > 1. Re: Prius brake problems? (gfifield at onlinenw.com)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 1
> > > Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 06:46:03 -0800 (PST)
> > > From: gfifield at onlinenw.com
> > > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Prius brake problems?
> > > To: "Myles Twete"
> > <matwete at comcast.net>
> > > Cc: oeva-list at oeva.org
> > > Message-ID:
> > >
> > <58f09b40c3e99f83b91ba13b3b0a851a.squirrel at mail.onlinenw.com>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
> > >
> > > Apple's co-founder Wozniak's Prius problems:
> > >
> > http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100203/bs_afp/usjapanautotoyotarecallapple
> > >
> > > http://bit.ly/9z3VJr
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "report suggests is that sometimes the
> > braking system in the Prius can
> > > > stop
> > > > working on bumpy and slippery roads."
> > > >
> > > >
> > http://www.mibz.com/5265-new-trouble-for-toyota-prius-brake-problems.html
> > > >
> > > > Toyota's now looking at a Prius recall for
> > this.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -mt
> > >
> > > -------------- next part --------------
> > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > > URL:
> > /pipermail/attachments/20100204/5933b490/attachment-0001.html
> >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 4
> > > Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 16:23:56 -0800 (PST)
> > > From: Janet Redhawk <cyberdyke_1 at yahoo.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Prius brake problems?
> > > To: oeva-list at oeva.org
> > > Message-ID:
> > <215942.45238.qm at web52603.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> > >
> > > Can I just ask why this problem with Toyota cars rates
> > a congressional inquiry?
> > >
> > > Where was congress when the Pinto was killing
> > thousands of people?
> > > Where was congress when Firestone tires were killing
> > thousands of people?
> > >
> > > I think the big 3 are ticked off that Toyota has
> > become the #1 sales car in America and now they are showing
> > how unhappy they are about it.
> > >
> > > J
> > >
> > > --- On Thu, 2/4/10, Theoldcars at aol.com
> > <Theoldcars at aol.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > From: Theoldcars at aol.com
> > <Theoldcars at aol.com>
> > > > Subject: [Oeva-list] Prius brake problems?
> > > > To: oeva-list at oeva.org
> > > > Date: Thursday, February 4, 2010, 3:08 PM
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I have had the following?problem with
> > > > many?antilock brakes.
> > > > ?
> > > > Every time you go over a wet manhole cover or
> > > > even?a wet slick painted area. When the one wheel
> > hits
> > > > before another or one by itself with the brakes
> > on. The few
> > > > hundreds of a second the wheel would have locked
> > up triggers
> > > > the antilock brakes to kick in. The vehicle stops
> > much
> > > > slower because the problem the system senses is
> > only for a
> > > > couple of feet. The system delays the vehicle
> > stopping by
> > > > rapidly?pulsing on all the wheels and this
> > vastly
> > > > extends your stopping distance. Just about 100%
> > of the time
> > > > it is reacting to an event that?would not have
> > been a
> > > > control problem and I hate it. This always seems
> > to happen
> > > > at slow speeds and it?always seems to do it at
> > > > a?critical time. Like 20 or 30?feet before your
> > > > going to hit something.
> > > > ?
> > > > I am not a tailgater but when I am coming to a
> > stop I
> > > > have expectations that I will come to a stop in
> > a
> > > > predictable way.
> > > > ?
> > > > Don
> > > > ?
> > > > In a message dated 2/4/2010 12:00:17 PM Pacific
> > > > Standard Time, oeva-list-request at oeva.org
> > writes:
> > > > 1. Re: Prius brake problems?
> > > > (gfifield at onlinenw.com)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Message: 1
> > > > Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 06:46:03 -0800 (PST)
> > > > From: gfifield at onlinenw.com
> > > > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Prius brake problems?
> > > > To: "Myles Twete"
> > <matwete at comcast.net>
> > > > Cc: oeva-list at oeva.org
> > > > Message-ID:
> > > > ? ?
> > > >
> > <58f09b40c3e99f83b91ba13b3b0a851a.squirrel at mail.onlinenw.com>
> > > > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
> > > >
> > > > Apple's co-founder Wozniak's Prius
> > problems:
> > > >
> > http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100203/bs_afp/usjapanautotoyotarecallapple
> > > >
> > > > http://bit.ly/9z3VJr
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "report suggests is that sometimes the
> > braking
> > > > system in the Prius can
> > > > > stop
> > > > > working on bumpy and slippery roads."
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > http://www.mibz.com/5265-new-trouble-for-toyota-prius-brake-problems.html
> > > > >
> > > > > Toyota's now looking at a Prius recall
> > for this.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -mt
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Oeva-list mailing list
> > > > Oeva-list at oeva.org
> > > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 5
> > > Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 16:57:57 -0800
> > > From: "Myles Twete"
> > <matwete at comcast.net>
> > > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Prius brake problems?
> > > To: <oeva-list at oeva.org>
> > > Message-ID:
> > <001c01caa5fe$424f4d10$c6ede730$@net>
> > > Content-Type:
> > text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> > >
> > > It's not the severity of the issues or that
> > there's these recalls, it's that
> > > evidently Toyota has preferred obfuscation, runarounds
> > and false blames for
> > > months rather than come out and announce a problem.
> > People have died and
> > > politicos gets pressured when people die and
> > there's evidence that more
> > > could have been done earlier. As for conspiracy of
> > picking on Toyota,
> > > maybe, but then I don't hear them going after VW
> > or Subaru---both also very
> > > popular here in Portlandistan.
> > > -mt
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org
> > [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On
> > > Behalf Of Janet Redhawk
> > > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 4:24 PM
> > > To: oeva-list at oeva.org
> > > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Prius brake problems?
> > >
> > > Can I just ask why this problem with Toyota cars rates
> > a congressional
> > > inquiry?
> > >
> > > Where was congress when the Pinto was killing
> > thousands of people?
> > > Where was congress when Firestone tires were killing
> > thousands of people?
> > >
> > > I think the big 3 are ticked off that Toyota has
> > become the #1 sales car in
> > > America and now they are showing how unhappy they are
> > about it.
> > >
> > > J
> > >
> > > --- On Thu, 2/4/10, Theoldcars at aol.com
> > <Theoldcars at aol.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > From: Theoldcars at aol.com
> > <Theoldcars at aol.com>
> > > > Subject: [Oeva-list] Prius brake problems?
> > > > To: oeva-list at oeva.org
> > > > Date: Thursday, February 4, 2010, 3:08 PM
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I have had the following?problem with
> > > > many?antilock brakes.
> > > > ?
> > > > Every time you go over a wet manhole cover or
> > > > even?a wet slick painted area. When the one wheel
> > hits
> > > > before another or one by itself with the brakes
> > on. The few
> > > > hundreds of a second the wheel would have locked
> > up triggers
> > > > the antilock brakes to kick in. The vehicle stops
> > much
> > > > slower because the problem the system senses is
> > only for a
> > > > couple of feet. The system delays the vehicle
> > stopping by
> > > > rapidly?pulsing on all the wheels and this
> > vastly
> > > > extends your stopping distance. Just about 100%
> > of the time
> > > > it is reacting to an event that?would not have
> > been a
> > > > control problem and I hate it. This always seems
> > to happen
> > > > at slow speeds and it?always seems to do it at
> > > > a?critical time. Like 20 or 30?feet before your
> > > > going to hit something.
> > > > ?
> > > > I am not a tailgater but when I am coming to a
> > stop I
> > > > have expectations that I will come to a stop in
> > a
> > > > predictable way.
> > > > ?
> > > > Don
> > > > ?
> > > > In a message dated 2/4/2010 12:00:17 PM Pacific
> > > > Standard Time, oeva-list-request at oeva.org
> > writes:
> > > > 1. Re: Prius brake problems?
> > > > (gfifield at onlinenw.com)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Message: 1
> > > > Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 06:46:03 -0800 (PST)
> > > > From: gfifield at onlinenw.com
> > > > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Prius brake problems?
> > > > To: "Myles Twete"
> > <matwete at comcast.net>
> > > > Cc: oeva-list at oeva.org
> > > > Message-ID:
> > > > ? ?
> > > >
> > <58f09b40c3e99f83b91ba13b3b0a851a.squirrel at mail.onlinenw.com>
> > > > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
> > > >
> > > > Apple's co-founder Wozniak's Prius
> > problems:
> > > >
> > http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100203/bs_afp/usjapanautotoyotarecallapple
> > > >
> > > > http://bit.ly/9z3VJr
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "report suggests is that sometimes the
> > braking
> > > > system in the Prius can
> > > > > stop
> > > > > working on bumpy and slippery roads."
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > http://www.mibz.com/5265-new-trouble-for-toyota-prius-brake-problems.html
> > > > >
> > > > > Toyota's now looking at a Prius recall
> > for this.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -mt
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Oeva-list mailing list
> > > > Oeva-list at oeva.org
> > > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Oeva-list mailing list
> > > Oeva-list at oeva.org
> > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 6
> > > Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 09:23:26 -0800 (PST)
> > > From: Janet Redhawk <cyberdyke_1 at yahoo.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Prius brake problems?
> > > To: oeva-list at oeva.org
> > > Message-ID:
> > <46579.83483.qm at web52601.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> > >
> > > That's not 100% true. Yes several people have
> > died. Toyota HAS not used obfuscation or anything else to
> > "cover up" the problem. When the first people
> > were killed Toyota came right out and said they were
> > recalling all Prius' for their floor matts, and that
> > they were looking further into the situation to see if their
> > might be a deeper cause.
> > >
> > > If you want to talk obfuscation let's talk about
> > Ford and the Pinto. Thousands of people were killed and
> > Ford took the line that it wasn't their problem.
> > Finally after YEARS of people getting killed they FINALLY
> > relented and recalled the car. The problem: a $.50 part
> > that isolated the tail pipe or muffler for going into the
> > gas tank. Ford thought it was cheaper to pay all the
> > lawsuits than to recall the cars and put on the part. This
> > is all facts, look 'em up.
> > >
> > > Now I don't want to get into a war on this site.
> > I just think it ludicrous for the gov't to be involved
> > in this car problem when we've had much bigger car/auto
> > industry problems. And before people climb onto the band
> > wagon for the lynching maybe they should check the facts.
> > >
> > > Stepping off my soap box.
> > >
> > > J
> > >
> > > --- On Thu, 2/4/10, Myles Twete
> > <matwete at comcast.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > From: Myles Twete <matwete at comcast.net>
> > > > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Prius brake problems?
> > > > To: oeva-list at oeva.org
> > > > Date: Thursday, February 4, 2010, 4:57 PM
> > > > It's not the severity of the issues
> > > > or that there's these recalls, it's that
> > > > evidently Toyota has preferred obfuscation,
> > runarounds and
> > > > false blames for
> > > > months rather than come out and announce a
> > problem.?
> > > > People have died and
> > > > politicos gets pressured when people die and
> > there's
> > > > evidence that more
> > > > could have been done earlier.? As for conspiracy
> > of
> > > > picking on Toyota,
> > > > maybe, but then I don't hear them going after
> > VW or
> > > > Subaru---both also very
> > > > popular here in Portlandistan.
> > > > -mt
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org
> > > > [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org]
> > > > On
> > > > Behalf Of Janet Redhawk
> > > > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 4:24 PM
> > > > To: oeva-list at oeva.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Prius brake problems?
> > > >
> > > > Can I just ask why this problem with Toyota cars
> > rates a
> > > > congressional
> > > > inquiry?
> > > >
> > > > Where was congress when the Pinto was killing
> > thousands of
> > > > people?
> > > > Where was congress when Firestone tires were
> > killing
> > > > thousands of people?
> > > >
> > > > I think the big 3 are ticked off that Toyota has
> > become the
> > > > #1 sales car in
> > > > America and now they are showing how unhappy they
> > are about
> > > > it.
> > > >
> > > > J
> > > >
> > > > --- On Thu, 2/4/10, Theoldcars at aol.com
> > > > <Theoldcars at aol.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > From: Theoldcars at aol.com
> > > > <Theoldcars at aol.com>
> > > > > Subject: [Oeva-list] Prius brake problems?
> > > > > To: oeva-list at oeva.org
> > > > > Date: Thursday, February 4, 2010, 3:08 PM
> > > > >
> > > > >?
> > > > >?
> > > > >?
> > > > >
> > > > > I have had the following?problem with
> > > > > many?antilock brakes.
> > > > > ?
> > > > > Every time you go over a wet manhole cover
> > or
> > > > > even?a wet slick painted area. When the one
> > wheel
> > > > hits
> > > > > before another or one by itself with the
> > brakes on.
> > > > The few
> > > > > hundreds of a second the wheel would have
> > locked up
> > > > triggers
> > > > > the antilock brakes to kick in. The vehicle
> > stops
> > > > much
> > > > > slower because the problem the system senses
> > is only
> > > > for a
> > > > > couple of feet. The system delays the
> > vehicle stopping
> > > > by
> > > > > rapidly?pulsing on all the wheels and this
> > vastly
> > > > > extends your stopping distance. Just about
> > 100% of the
> > > > time
> > > > > it is reacting to an event that?would not
> > have been
> > > > a
> > > > > control problem and I hate it. This always
> > seems to
> > > > happen
> > > > > at slow speeds and it?always seems to do it
> > at
> > > > > a?critical time. Like 20 or 30?feet before
> > your
> > > > > going to hit something.
> > > > > ?
> > > > > I am not a tailgater but when I am coming to
> > a stop I
> > > > > have expectations that I will come to a stop
> > in a
> > > > > predictable way.
> > > > > ?
> > > > > Don
> > > > > ?
> > > > > In a message dated 2/4/2010 12:00:17 PM
> > Pacific
> > > > > Standard Time, oeva-list-request at oeva.org
> > > > writes:
> > > > > 1. Re: Prius brake problems?
> > > > > (gfifield at onlinenw.com)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Message: 1
> > > > > Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 06:46:03 -0800 (PST)
> > > > > From: gfifield at onlinenw.com
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Prius brake
> > problems?
> > > > > To: "Myles Twete"
> > <matwete at comcast.net>
> > > > > Cc: oeva-list at oeva.org
> > > > > Message-ID:
> > > > > ? ?
> > > > >
> > <58f09b40c3e99f83b91ba13b3b0a851a.squirrel at mail.onlinenw.com>
> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
> > > > >
> > > > > Apple's co-founder Wozniak's Prius
> > problems:
> > > > >
> > http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100203/bs_afp/usjapanautotoyotarecallapple
> > > > >
> > > > > http://bit.ly/9z3VJr
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "report suggests is that sometimes
> > the braking
> > > > > system in the Prius can
> > > > > > stop
> > > > > > working on bumpy and slippery
> > roads."
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > http://www.mibz.com/5265-new-trouble-for-toyota-prius-brake-problems.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Toyota's now looking at a Prius
> > recall for this.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -mt
> > > > >?
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Oeva-list mailing list
> > > > > Oeva-list at oeva.org
> > > > >
> > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ? ? ?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Oeva-list mailing list
> > > > Oeva-list at oeva.org
> > > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Oeva-list mailing list
> > > > Oeva-list at oeva.org
> > > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Oeva-list mailing list
> > > Oeva-list at oeva.org
> > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
> > >
> > >
> > > End of Oeva-list Digest, Vol 76, Issue 5
> > > ****************************************
> >
> > Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich
> > email service. Get
> > it now.
> >
> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Oeva-list mailing list
> > Oeva-list at oeva.org
> > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 15:55:03 -0800
> From: steve boser <greenerwheels at gmail.com>
> Subject: [Oeva-list] How about a little irony with that hybrid
> To: Oeva-list at oeva.org
> Message-ID:
> <62256f591002051555u5ad341e4web53a1e7b1a6fbc2 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I realize how serious Toyota's situation is, and as more and more
> CPU's get installed in everyday items, how they interact with each
> other could have similar effects of a person taking multiple
> perscriptions, and how each drug interacts with the others.
>
> I'm sure it was completely unintentional poking at two separate
> industries but today there very well may be more and more truth to the
> poking.
>
> Think back to 1998.
>
> For a better read, try Aurthur C Clark's short story "Dial F for Frankenstein"
>
>
> Thanks
> Steve
>
> Please I am not saying the sky is falling, just thought we all could use a break
>
>
> If General Motors Built Cars like Microsoft...
>
> At a recent computer expo (COMDEX), Bill Gates reportedly compared the
> computer industry with the auto industry and stated: "If GM had kept
> up with technology like the computer industry has, we would all be
> driving twenty-five dollar cars that got 1000 miles to the gallon." In
> response to Bill's comments, General Motors issued a press release
> stating (supposedly by Mr. Welch himself): "Yes, but would you want
> your car to crash twice a day?"
>
> Then others added these comments:
>
> 1. Every time they repainted the lines on the road you would have to
> buy a new car.
>
> 2. Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no reason, and
> you would just accept this, restart and drive on.
>
> 3. Occasionally, executing a maneuver such as a left turn would cause
> your car to stop and fail and you would have to re-install the engine.
> For some strange reason, you would accept this too.
>
> 4. You could only have one person in the car at a time, unless you
> bought Car95 or CarNT . But then you would have to buy more seats.
>
> 5. Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, was
> reliable, five times as fast, twice as easy to drive, but would only
> run on five percent of the roads.
>
> 6. The Macintosh car owners would get expensive Microsoft uprgrades to
> their cars, which would make their cars run much slower.
>
> 7. The oil, gas and alternator warning lights would be replaced by a
> single "general car fault" warning light.
>
> 8. New seats would force everyone to have the same size butt.
>
> 9. The airbag system would say are you sure? before going off.
>
> 10. If you were involved in a crash, you would have no idea what happened.
>
> 11. Occasionally, for no reason whatsoever, your car would lock you
> out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door
> handle, turned the key, and grabbed hold of the radio antenna.
>
> 12. GM would require all car buyers to also purchase a deluxe set of
> Rand McNally road maps (now a GM subsidiary), even though they neither
> needed nor wanted them. Attempting to delete this option would
> immediately cause the car's performance to diminish by 50% or more.
> Moreover, GM would become the target of investigation by the Justice
> Department.
>
> 13. Every time GM would introduce a new model car buyers would have to
> learn how to drive all over again because none of the controls would
> operate in the same manner as the old car.
>
> 14. You'd press the "start" button to shut off the engine.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Oeva-list mailing list
> Oeva-list at oeva.org
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
>
>
> End of Oeva-list Digest, Vol 76, Issue 7
> ****************************************
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