From patrick0101 at gmail.com Sat Jan 2 19:05:18 2010 From: patrick0101 at gmail.com (patrick0101 at gmail.com) Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 19:05:18 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] Win a Tesla Model S Message-ID: <8c28d7b51001021905u25636ee6p1eee97cb0fbce453@mail.gmail.com> Want a 1 in 4.3 million chance at winning a Tesla Model S? The CEO of Mahalo.com is giving away a free Tesla Model S to one twitter follower of his @auto twitter account, if he can get more followers than the current #1 twitter account (held by Ashton Kutcher with 4.2 million). To enter just follow @auto on twitter.com. Regards, Pat Plug In, Charge Up, Drive Off =D~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100102/9728fb22/attachment.html From tim_kutscha at yahoo.com Sun Jan 3 14:46:07 2010 From: tim_kutscha at yahoo.com (Tim Kutscha) Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 14:46:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Oeva-list] Anyone have experience with permanent magnet alternators? Message-ID: <83953.1194.qm@web110512.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi All, I'm working with someone on a homebrew series hybrid car (similar to the Chevy Volt). We're looking to charge the main EV battery with a diesel engine driving a PMA (permanent magnet alternator). Neither of us has experience with PMAs or how to properly select them for hybrid, micro-hydro or micro-wind usage. Does anyone in the OEVA have experience with PMAs that would be willing to share their knowledge? Ideally, we're looking for someone to provide pointers on PMA selection and then be present during testing for a few hours so we know what we're looking for in terms of performance (or things that can go wrong). Examples of the types of PMAs we're looking at are here: http://www.windbluepower.com/category_s/1.htm http://www.hydrogenappliances.com/powerpmas.html Thanks for any and all suggestions! Cheers, Tim From gfifield at onlinenw.com Sun Jan 3 18:01:52 2010 From: gfifield at onlinenw.com (gfifield at onlinenw.com) Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 18:01:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Oeva-list] Anyone have experience with permanent magnet alternators? In-Reply-To: <83953.1194.qm@web110512.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <83953.1194.qm@web110512.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <901ec844a82de3b3d5f007d73e833531.squirrel@mail.onlinenw.com> Tim, If you are a IEEE member you might look at this paper. http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freeabs_all.jsp?arnumber=563155 Gene > Hi All, > > I'm working with someone on a homebrew series hybrid car (similar to the > Chevy Volt). We're looking to charge the main EV battery with a diesel > engine driving a PMA (permanent magnet alternator). Neither of us has > experience with PMAs or how to properly select them for hybrid, > micro-hydro or micro-wind usage. > > Does anyone in the OEVA have experience with PMAs that would be willing to > share their knowledge? Ideally, we're looking for someone to provide > pointers on PMA selection and then be present during testing for a few > hours so we know what we're looking for in terms of performance (or things > that can go wrong). > > Examples of the types of PMAs we're looking at are here: > > http://www.windbluepower.com/category_s/1.htm > http://www.hydrogenappliances.com/powerpmas.html > > Thanks for any and all suggestions! > > Cheers, > Tim > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Oeva-list mailing list > Oeva-list at oeva.org > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > From gfifield at onlinenw.com Sun Jan 3 19:06:57 2010 From: gfifield at onlinenw.com (gfifield at onlinenw.com) Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 19:06:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Oeva-list] Anyone have experience with permanent magnet alternators? In-Reply-To: <83953.1194.qm@web110512.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <83953.1194.qm@web110512.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <66323ca4914e061c03bfcd864108d128.squirrel@mail.onlinenw.com> Hi Tim, I'm not really educated in this area, but your question made me do some research. http://seniordesign.engr.uidaho.edu/1999_2000/farfrumsparkin/SAE.htm You might find this interesting; I'm not sure if there is more. Interesting idea for a series hybrid car. I think the reason a lot of people use a permanent magnet for wind is because at low wind speeds the PM alternator is most efficient. I'm wondering if there are some people over at ARE in Newberg that could help here. http://www.abundantre.com/ However if you are using a diesel engine wouldn't the RPM be constant at the sweet spot and therefore you wouldn't need the low end efficiency of a PM? A series hybrid; isn't that what a diesel electric train is all about? I wonder what they use? Gene > Hi All, > > I'm working with someone on a homebrew series hybrid car (similar to the > Chevy Volt). We're looking to charge the main EV battery with a diesel > engine driving a PMA (permanent magnet alternator). Neither of us has > experience with PMAs or how to properly select them for hybrid, > micro-hydro or micro-wind usage. > > Does anyone in the OEVA have experience with PMAs that would be willing to > share their knowledge? Ideally, we're looking for someone to provide > pointers on PMA selection and then be present during testing for a few > hours so we know what we're looking for in terms of performance (or things > that can go wrong). > > Examples of the types of PMAs we're looking at are here: > > http://www.windbluepower.com/category_s/1.htm > http://www.hydrogenappliances.com/powerpmas.html > > Thanks for any and all suggestions! > > Cheers, > Tim > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Oeva-list mailing list > Oeva-list at oeva.org > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > From matwete at comcast.net Sun Jan 3 19:25:50 2010 From: matwete at comcast.net (Myles Twete) Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 19:25:50 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] Anyone have experience with permanent magnet alternators? In-Reply-To: <83953.1194.qm@web110512.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <83953.1194.qm@web110512.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002a01ca8ced$9d9cd7c0$d8d68740$@net> Tim- Be careful with these PMAC specs---while they give more information than a lot of ordinary alternator suppliers, the graphs presented by some mfrs/vendors and the claims made can be out and out lies. My experience with these is from about 4 years ago or so. Earlier, I had helped build and did the wiring for a twin-engine steamboat (http://www.northweststeamsociety.org/Pages/ProjectsBoats/Tortoise/NWSSBtor. htm ), which we launched in 2001. Well, it quickly became evident that this was more like an electric boat since it required an average of 40-45amps at 12v to maintain power to the inverter, boiler, electric feed pump, etc. The plan was for electricity to be generated underway by using an alternator driven by a twin-cylinder steam engine. While that worked, all we could get was about 15-18amps into 12v. We tried another alternator, increased the steam pressure to the engine, increased the pulley ratio, etc. and couldn't get more than 20amps. We even tried a "high output" alternator and one that was "made for low RPM" applications--still not much better. After a couple years of running with what we had, and having read about these PMAC's, I mentioned it to my friend, who pretty much ordered one without asking for better information on them. We received the PMAC, installed it easily enough and gave it a whirl. Once again, the amp gauge ended up rising to 20, then maybe to 24amps, then no more. Worse, FAR WORSE, this PMAC device was getting warm to HOT very quickly. We quickly shut it down, removed the unit and attempted to send it back to get money back. When the supplier would not accept return of the PMAC for our money back, I pointed out to the supplier/manufacturer that his online specs was misleading AT BEST if not blatantly fraudulent. His claims were that this motor "loves" low or high speeds and that high currents were no problem at all. Our experience proved these claims fraudulent. We spun this motor AT MOST 1800 RPMs. The no-load voltage wasn't even 24v. Loaded, the current delivered averaged 24amps, max. Yet the alternator quickly got warm-to-hot and was far from being able to deliver the 100+ amps that they claimed. In the end, my friend was out $300 and we pursued another, lower cost solution: A surplus high efficiency Leeson DC permanent magnet 12/24v, 1.5HP motor. With this setup, not only can start the steam engine with the motor, but as a generator, the Leeson will deliver 35amps into the 12v and barely get warm---still not the 50amps that would be best, but at 35amps and at $100 or so, it was a decent deal. Bottom line: If your supplier won't give you better specs than they provide online, ask them to. The link you provide doesn't inform as to the internal resistance. It can kind of be inferred from the graph, e.g. this DC-500 from that WindBluePower site you mention: http://www.windbluepower.com/Wind_Blue_Motor_Hydro_Permanent_Magnet_Alternat or_p/dc-500.htm At 2000RPM, they claim it can deliver 120amps into 12v. The voltage curve seems to indicate a Voc(2000RPM) of about 16v. This means that at 120amps, you should expect a loss of 4v*120amps or 480watts! This is 75% efficient---far less than an efficient PM DC Motor. Further, their claims are inconsistent---they claim that the graph shows Isc and Voc...yet then they say that at 2000RPM, they get 120amps at 12v. The graph shows about 115amps for Isc...not a chance you'd get 120amps into 12v if Isc is 115amps. If you need high output and you find out this poor efficiency on your bench---best of luck to you---you probably won't get your money back. Bottom Line in my experience with these is they are only efficient at high RPM, high voltage and relatively low current. For efficiency, you need high RPM and low current. Hopefully you'll be dealing with a good vendor and one who knows what they are selling. But do your homework---don't let your buddy order one without you being convinced. Caveat emptor- -Myles -----Original Message----- From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of Tim Kutscha Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 2:46 PM To: oeva-list at oeva.org Subject: [Oeva-list] Anyone have experience with permanent magnet alternators? Hi All, I'm working with someone on a homebrew series hybrid car (similar to the Chevy Volt). We're looking to charge the main EV battery with a diesel engine driving a PMA (permanent magnet alternator). Neither of us has experience with PMAs or how to properly select them for hybrid, micro-hydro or micro-wind usage. Does anyone in the OEVA have experience with PMAs that would be willing to share their knowledge? Ideally, we're looking for someone to provide pointers on PMA selection and then be present during testing for a few hours so we know what we're looking for in terms of performance (or things that can go wrong). Examples of the types of PMAs we're looking at are here: http://www.windbluepower.com/category_s/1.htm http://www.hydrogenappliances.com/powerpmas.html Thanks for any and all suggestions! Cheers, Tim _______________________________________________ Oeva-list mailing list Oeva-list at oeva.org http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list From gary at whitecape.org Tue Jan 5 07:36:13 2010 From: gary at whitecape.org (Gary Graunke) Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2010 07:36:13 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] EV roadmap conference results posted Message-ID: <4B435C6D.6010100@whitecape.org> The November Oregon EV road map conference results were posted recently. www.evroadmap.com (or just google EV roadmap). The conference is under "plans and projects". Those wanting more information about the Nissan Leaf can find it in Mark Perry's presentation in the proceedings. The direct link is www.evroadmap.com/ppt/perry.ppt . Charlie Allcock of PGE's presentation gives a good perspective on what's happening in charging. www.evroadmap.com/ppt/allcock.ppt . Jim Francfort of DOE's Idaho National Labs didn't get much time at the conference, but he is the man with the data on how the cars perform: www.evroadmap.com/ppt/francfort.ppt . Those who sign up for the DOE study will be providing much needed data on EV driving and charging to their database. There are, of course, many other interesting talks and other data. Enjoy! Gary From paburkey at juno.com Wed Jan 6 15:22:39 2010 From: paburkey at juno.com (paburkey) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 15:22:39 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] Event next week in Salem! Message-ID: <20100106.152336.7689.76565@mailpop09.dca.untd.com> Hi All, Next week Friday, Saturday, and Sunday is the Mid-Valley Home Show at the state fair grounds. We have a 20' X 20' feet area. I plan to trailer my Sparrow, and Wade is planning to bring his quad, and motorcycle. I would like some other vehicles to fill the rest of the area. The move in dates and times are Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday, January 12, 13, & 14 from 8 AM to 9 PM. The move out times are 6 to 9 on Sunday, and 8 am to 4 PM on Monday. I am planning on moving in some time Thursday, before the meeting, and be at the show Friday, Saturday, and later in the afternoon on Sunday then move out after 6 PM. I would also like to have volunteers to during the show hours: Friday January 15: 1 PM to 3 PM 3 PM to 5 PM 5 PM to 8 PM Saturday January 16: 10 AM to 12 PM 12 PM to 2 PM 2 PM to 4 PM 4 PM to 6 PM 6 PM to 8 PM Sunday January 17: 10 AM to 12 PM 12 PM to 2 PM 2 PM to 5 PM Thank you, Paul Burkey OEVA Ongoing Events Chair ____________________________________________________________ Nutrition Improve your career health. Click now to study nutrition! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=1KKQiRDOsYQCqy13fDbYygAAJ1BkaHzsSe16j49bb3Dge91JAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASQwAAAAA= -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100106/5e8913f1/attachment.html From blaze at chargenw.com Sat Jan 9 10:49:59 2010 From: blaze at chargenw.com (Jim Blaisdell) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 10:49:59 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] Lincoln City Article Message-ID: <97205B70-E6E4-4832-BE32-D1C6D7D91FA7@chargenw.com> Hi Folks, it would be great if a few if you could make it to Lincoln City on Monday for the unveiling. Here is an article about the event. http://www.newportnewstimes.com/v2_news_articles.php? heading=0&page=72&story_id=22046 Jim Blaisdell Charge Northwest Coulomb, Chargepoint Distributors 22322 NE 157th St Woodinville, WA 98077 253-304-5625 cell 253-265-0919 office http://www.chargenw.com/ > P Please consider the environment before printing this message. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100109/f89aad57/attachment-0001.html From garry at europa.com Sat Jan 9 14:18:16 2010 From: garry at europa.com (garry painter) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 14:18:16 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] Lincoln City Article In-Reply-To: <97205B70-E6E4-4832-BE32-D1C6D7D91FA7@chargenw.com> References: <97205B70-E6E4-4832-BE32-D1C6D7D91FA7@chargenw.com> Message-ID: Hmmmm... I just had a thought. If someone were to knock on your door, and tell you that their EV needed about 1kwh of juice to get home, would anyone turn them away? Or would you hand them the female end of your extension cord? Perhaps I'm just thinking too far into the future where I imagine every parking spot in every town will have a charge station. I'd like a cheap little cheesy unit in front of my house at the curb that someone can pop a quarter into, such that they don't interrupt my dinner. Those chargepoint stations are ok I guess for now, but when you're talking 300 million or more of them, you're looking at over a trillion dollars. Perhaps Coulomb should develop a VolksCharger model for the non-municipality funded geeks like me. Or, it could be, that I'm simply insane. These are the headlines I'd rather see: http://home.europa.com/~garry/CrazyHeadlines.html garry On Jan 9, 2010, at 10:49 AM, Jim Blaisdell wrote: > Hi Folks, it would be great if a few if you could make it to > Lincoln City on Monday for the unveiling. Here is an article about > the event. > http://www.newportnewstimes.com/v2_news_articles.php? > heading=0&page=72&story_id=22046 > > Jim Blaisdell > Charge Northwest > Coulomb, Chargepoint Distributors > 22322 NE 157th St > Woodinville, WA 98077 > > 253-304-5625 cell > 253-265-0919 office > http://www.chargenw.com/ >> P Please consider the environment before printing this message. > > _______________________________________________ > Oeva-list mailing list > Oeva-list at oeva.org > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100109/57865e4a/attachment.html From Rick.Durst at pgn.com Sat Jan 9 22:36:22 2010 From: Rick.Durst at pgn.com (Rick Durst) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 22:36:22 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] Transportation Electrification: What to Expect in 2010. Message-ID: Portland General Electric and Portland State University are pleased to invite you to a special briefing this coming Tuesday, January 12 from 10:30-11:30 a.m. in the Oregon Room on the Mezzanine Level Portland General Electric's Two World Trade Center Building, 121 S.W. Salmon Street in Portland. About the Program Mr. Lowenthal will be giving his thoughts on. Transportation Electrification: What to Expect in 2010. His presentation will provide you an update on developing markets and technology at our doorstep and coming our way in the next year or so. He will also share his thoughts on what Oregon needs to be do well to "get ready." Please also note that Rich and Coulomb are members of the Electrification Coalition. RSVP Requested Seating is limited, so please confirm your attendance by emailing George Beard ASAP (gbeard at pdx.edu) About Our Honored Guest Richard Lowenthal is the CEO of Coulomb Technologies, which he co-founded in 2007. From 1998 until 2007 he was instrumental in starting several companies, including Lightera, Pipal Systems and Procket Networks. From 1996 to 1997, Mr. Lowenthal was vice president and general manager of Cisco's WAN Access Products Division. From 1990 through 1995, Mr. Lowenthal was vice president of research and development for StrataCom, a telecommunications equipment company. Prior to StrataCom, Mr. Lowenthal was co-founder and vice president of engineering for Stardent Computers, and vice president of engineering for Convergent Technologies. Mr. Lowenthal is also a former Mayor of Cupertino, California, and has been heavily involved in the non-profit world. He has a BS degree in Electrical Engineering from UC Berkeley. About Coulomb Technologies Coulomb helps fuel the electric transportation industry by delivering networked charging station and related services. GEORGE K BEARD Executive Leadership Institute Hatfield School of Government Portland State University Portland, Oregon 97202 +1 503 772 0222 gbeard at pdx.edu From paburkey at juno.com Sun Jan 10 19:53:38 2010 From: paburkey at juno.com (paburkey) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 19:53:38 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] Event next week in Salem! Message-ID: <20100110.195413.905.80465@mailpop06.dca.untd.com> Hi All, I am still looking for more vehicles to fill the rest of the 20' X 20' feet area. Please volunteer by adding your name to poll for Mid-Valley Home Show at the state fair grounds at: http://www.doodle.com/zgqdm8bcbhsqne39 Also the Arcimoto Pulse is to be at the show in another area. Thank you, Paul Burkey OEVA Ongoing Events Chair ____________________________________________________________ Criminal Lawyer Criminal Lawyers - Click here. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=r5Bn5Ex1_VX6nLAiHULWfAAAJ1BkaHzsSe16j49bb3Dge91JAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAiFgAAAAA= -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100110/7108f249/attachment.html From patrick0101 at gmail.com Mon Jan 11 17:06:19 2010 From: patrick0101 at gmail.com (patrick0101 at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 17:06:19 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] GM Will Make Pure-Electric Version of Chevy Volt Message-ID: <8c28d7b51001111706u561486b5t4cd1c087a72941d9@mail.gmail.com> http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=9533671 Regards, Pat Plug In, Charge Up, Drive Off =D~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100111/8702850e/attachment.html From richard.reinoehl at verizon.net Wed Jan 13 00:20:00 2010 From: richard.reinoehl at verizon.net (richard.reinoehl at verizon.net) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 02:20:00 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Oeva-list] OEVA goals/ January meeting Message-ID: <1812522683.12704.1263370800410.JavaMail.root@vms229.mailsrvcs.net> This Thursday's meeting will be one of the most important meetings of the year. This is so for two reasons. First, we are applying to become a 501(c)3 and for that we need to have our organizational goals clearly laid out in our application. This is a formal document that can effect the group for years to come. Second, we need to prioritize these goals for what we want to accomplish this coming year, and to look at how we'll achieve them. The method we will be using for this is a very participatory process. Please give some thought to what you'd like to see OEVA accomplishing and come wearing your thinking cap. I'm looking forward to seeing you. Richard From paburkey at juno.com Wed Jan 13 21:41:56 2010 From: paburkey at juno.com (paburkey) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 21:41:56 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] Workshop during the Portland, Oregon, Auto Show sustainable transportation vehicles and infrastructure Message-ID: <20100113.214250.22017.83884@mailpop11.dca.untd.com> Hi All, Something to attend at the Auto Show below: Paul Burkey OEVA Ongoing Events Chair The Columbia-Willamette Clean Cities and the North American Fleet Association are putting on a workshop during the Portland, Oregon, Auto Show which will be focused on sustainable transportation vehicles and infrastructure. Doug Fine is the guest speaker. Here's a link to some clips about Doug Fine, who should be fun: http://www.dougfine.com/doug-on-the-tonight-show/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3TvfrhIXeU Thank you so much, Katie Gentry FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Katie Gentry DATE: December 28, 2009 PHONE:503-580-3806 THE COLUMBIA-WILLAMETTE CLEAN CITIES COALITION PRESENTS DOUG FINE AT ALTERNATIVE FUEL WORKSHOP On January 28, 2010, the Columbia-Willamette Clean Cities Coalition (CWCCC)is pleased to be hosting a workshop dedicated to alternative-fuel and alternative-fuel vehicles. Doug Fine is an NPR contributor and author of "Farewell, My Subaru" which made the Boston Globe Bestseller List in September, 2009. The event also includes local, regional and national Electric Vehicle updates, incentive information, manufacturer reports and local awards as well as FREE admission to the Portland Auto Show and a wonderful lunch. This is a great opportunity to see what is happening in the alternative vehicles world and mingle with public and private sector individuals who are working on advancing alternative-fuel choices. Tickets are $15 for members and $20 for nonmembers. Visit www.cwcleancities.org for more information or call 503-580-3806. Doug Fine has been featured by Jay Leno, CNN and others as he talks about how a "regular guy" can make sustainable choices. He is passionately sustainable, yet refuses to give up sub-woofers, Net-Flix and ice cream. After traveling the world as a freelance journalist and writing for the Washington Post, Salon, U.S. News and World Report, Sierra, Wired, Outside, National Public Radio, and other venues from little-visited jungle war zones, he recognized that he lived on "an actual planet" with finite resources. He became compelled to change his lifestyle; he now lives on a remote New Mexico farm with chickens and goats, drives a huge pickup that is fueled by vegetable oil, and his wireless is solar powered. The CWCCC workshop should be a good balance of levity and current events and should be useful for both the general public and business people. Seating is limited to 150 and tickets are going fast. ____________________________________________________________ Home Mortgage Save money. Click here to find low mortgage rates. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=apO67VUnpvRoE-UlBqY1qwAAJ1BkaHzsSe16j49bb3Dge91JAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQcwAAAAA= From jdaschel at gmail.com Thu Jan 14 12:36:58 2010 From: jdaschel at gmail.com (Joanne Daschel) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 12:36:58 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] New Charging Stations Open in Lincoln City Message-ID: <8d6018a91001141236p6dc03cc3y35a210a64d166cdf@mail.gmail.com> Thanks much to Gary Graunke and Jim Blaisdell for coming to our town for the opening of the new electric vehicle charging stations! It was a great event, lots of press there and it didn't even rain... to see the nice picture on our local newspaper site: http://thenewsguard.com/ For the article http://thenewsguard.com/main.asp?SectionID=7&SubSectionID=7&ArticleID=9379 or click on the headline on the main page. There are now 2 installed with 4 more coming, once they work out the locations... come visit the coast with your electric vehicles! Joanne Daschel & Ren Jacob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100114/77beb687/attachment-0001.html From plskeggs at noeticdesign.com Thu Jan 14 13:34:26 2010 From: plskeggs at noeticdesign.com (Pete Skeggs) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 13:34:26 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] Battery Warmer Sources Message-ID: <4B4F8DE2.2010101@noeticdesign.com> Hi folks, The lead acid batteries in my 2007 Zenn are struggling to get through this weather. I'm trying to stretch their lives as long as possible as I don't want to replace the whole pack (6) right now if I can help it. I've heard that battery warmers can help significantly. I'm sure you can walk into a Napa Autoparts store in Colorado and pick a few up anytime you want, but I'm guessing they're not in big demand here. Anyone recommend a good source that's local, or else online? -Pete From ken at peakfoto.com Thu Jan 14 14:00:25 2010 From: ken at peakfoto.com (Peakfoto Digital Photo Still n Video) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 14:00:25 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] Oeva-list Digest, salem Message-ID: <2CA3DC57DF1C46B0A57674CF5503DDC8.MAI@exovian.net> - Hi All, I am still looking for more vehicles to fill the rest of the 20' X 20' feet area. Please volunteer by adding your name to poll for Mid-Valley Home Show at the state fair grounds at: http://www.doodle.com/zgqdm8bcbhsqne39 I have a moped type EV mototcycle and a converstion but its not pretty.. From nickgaladay at msn.com Thu Jan 14 16:59:26 2010 From: nickgaladay at msn.com (Nick) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 16:59:26 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] Pure electric Chevy Volt Message-ID: One could reasonably ask why GM didn't start with a "pure electric" EV and then enhance it later with a "range extended" model! I note they are now acknowledging the Volt (likely to remain vaporware) will cost >$40K (it started out at <$30K three years ago). And with dismay I note Bob Lutz (who thinks climate-change is a hoax - and doubts 'peak-oil') is still in charge of this project. Regarding the target prices of the new EV offerings: The fellow "demonstrating" the static display of the Leaf last month stated the battery lease cost [or prorated depreciation of the batteries], plus the cost of the electricity, will approximately equal our current out of pocket cost for gasoline. That is, the savings to be enjoyed because of the electricity costing a fifth to a fourth the cost of the gasoline to go a given distance, will be sent straight to the manufacturer, missing my pocket altogether! I wish to discourage the manufacturers of any such calculus! After the economies of scale have had a chance to work, there is no reason in the world why an EV should cost more than an ICE to manufacture. Just count the moving parts! That the first effort at using batteries to store re-gen energy in an automobile was the relatively complicated parallel-hybrid, non-plug-in Prius, is testimony to the power and influence of the oil companies. An equivalent plug-in EV should cost far less than a Prius, hell, less than a Yaris! Nick Galaday Vernonia, OR Energy conservation-- saves more than energy! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100114/7e84cf88/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 2743 bytes Desc: not available Url : /pipermail/attachments/20100114/7e84cf88/attachment.jpe From patrick0101 at gmail.com Thu Jan 14 21:06:46 2010 From: patrick0101 at gmail.com (patrick0101 at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 21:06:46 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] OEVA Jan Notes Message-ID: <8c28d7b51001142106w21cab9dfmcc86d4a8c774b22a@mail.gmail.com> Oregon Electric Vehicle Association January 2010 Meeting ? Pat's notes Think has chosen Elkhart IN rather than Portland Lots of EV press related to the Detroit Auto Show We are still actively working on our 501(C)3. Expected to be final any day? Gary's Lincoln City report Lincoln City has installed 2 charging stations and 4 more are coming. OEVA member was a speaker and charged his plug-in Prius. They are Coulomb charging stations. The stations are currently free. They only have 120V plugs now, level 2 (J1772) upgrades are expected later this year. Coulomb Talk The CEO of Coulomb gave a talk in Portland. Discussed how permitting is getting resolved and simplified. Level 3 charging is coming to the Portland area. Mark Fronmeyer from Arcimoto was present at our meeting (no announcements). *2010 Goals 501c3 is one goal! No help is needed currently (we are just waiting). Our current mission statement is "The OEVA promotes electric vehicle education and encourages their safe construction and use." What should the new one be?* *Brainstorming* Demonstrate EVs Educate Public about EVs Consumer advocacy of EVs Fund Raising Plug-in America partnership Buying Fund Raising Government Policy ? Legislation ? EV roundtable ? Feb 4th for EV companies - Work with schools Hold a race? Public rides or drives Expand from just Portland or help other cities get groups going Garage Tour OEVA sponsored garage Increase membership Increase member participation Include dealerships in meeting? - Corporate members? - Speakers? - Local dealers? More Fun More Social Events Regards, Pat Plug In, Charge Up, Drive Off =D~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100114/623b1a82/attachment.html From daniel at flashdog.com Thu Jan 14 18:29:38 2010 From: daniel at flashdog.com (Daniel Anolik) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 18:29:38 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] Battery Warmer Sources In-Reply-To: <4B4F8DE2.2010101@noeticdesign.com> References: <4B4F8DE2.2010101@noeticdesign.com> Message-ID: <5B0EBA79-52CE-4F44-848D-1CDB6F406264@flashdog.com> Hi Pete, I used to drive an electric Geo Metro with lead acid batteries, and battery warmers. The conversion was done by Dave Cloud up in Washington, and he came up with a cheap, but affective warming solution that kept my Geo running through the coldest of Portland winter days. Here's how it worked: - Start with an electric soil heating cable, which are usually intended for heating flower boxes in cold weather, or for growing tropical plants. A quick internet search shows multiple options for around $35, including a thermostat. - Snake the heating cable back and forth along the bottom of your battery box, under the batteries. - Install the thermostat in the same battery box, but on top of the batteries. - Power the heating cable off of the AC line, when the car is plugged in for charging. - Optionally install a toggle switch on the dashboard for disabling the whole system (in warmer weather) The result was a heating system that only ran when the car was charging, the batteries were colder than 70F, and the dashboard toggle switch was enabled. Enjoy, Dan On Jan 14, 2010, at 1:34 PM, Pete Skeggs wrote: > Hi folks, > > The lead acid batteries in my 2007 Zenn are struggling to get through > this weather. I'm trying to stretch their lives as long as possible as > I don't want to replace the whole pack (6) right now if I can help it. > > I've heard that battery warmers can help significantly. I'm sure you > can walk into a Napa Autoparts store in Colorado and pick a few up > anytime you want, but I'm guessing they're not in big demand here. > > Anyone recommend a good source that's local, or else online? > > -Pete > > _______________________________________________ > Oeva-list mailing list > Oeva-list at oeva.org > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list From chris.hansen at intel.com Fri Jan 15 10:17:58 2010 From: chris.hansen at intel.com (Hansen, Chris) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 11:17:58 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] Battery Warmer Sources In-Reply-To: <5B0EBA79-52CE-4F44-848D-1CDB6F406264@flashdog.com> References: <4B4F8DE2.2010101@noeticdesign.com> <5B0EBA79-52CE-4F44-848D-1CDB6F406264@flashdog.com> Message-ID: <435959ED7AEDF04EB5EB69F308571813040BE37F44@azsmsx501.amr.corp.intel.com> I am not having major problems with my lead acid batteries although I do notice some loss of range. Not more than 20%. I charge my vehicle in my garage where the temp never gets below 50 Fahrenheit. Couple of questions: What is the typical efficiency loss of lead acid batteries in the winter at say, 50 Fahrenheit? At what temp does the loss kick in and is the loss mainly during charging or during use? Chris -----Original Message----- From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Anolik Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 6:30 PM To: Pete Skeggs Cc: Oeva-list at oeva.org Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Battery Warmer Sources Hi Pete, I used to drive an electric Geo Metro with lead acid batteries, and battery warmers. The conversion was done by Dave Cloud up in Washington, and he came up with a cheap, but affective warming solution that kept my Geo running through the coldest of Portland winter days. Here's how it worked: - Start with an electric soil heating cable, which are usually intended for heating flower boxes in cold weather, or for growing tropical plants. A quick internet search shows multiple options for around $35, including a thermostat. - Snake the heating cable back and forth along the bottom of your battery box, under the batteries. - Install the thermostat in the same battery box, but on top of the batteries. - Power the heating cable off of the AC line, when the car is plugged in for charging. - Optionally install a toggle switch on the dashboard for disabling the whole system (in warmer weather) The result was a heating system that only ran when the car was charging, the batteries were colder than 70F, and the dashboard toggle switch was enabled. Enjoy, Dan On Jan 14, 2010, at 1:34 PM, Pete Skeggs wrote: > Hi folks, > > The lead acid batteries in my 2007 Zenn are struggling to get through > this weather. I'm trying to stretch their lives as long as possible as > I don't want to replace the whole pack (6) right now if I can help it. > > I've heard that battery warmers can help significantly. I'm sure you > can walk into a Napa Autoparts store in Colorado and pick a few up > anytime you want, but I'm guessing they're not in big demand here. > > Anyone recommend a good source that's local, or else online? > > -Pete > > _______________________________________________ > Oeva-list mailing list > Oeva-list at oeva.org > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list _______________________________________________ Oeva-list mailing list Oeva-list at oeva.org http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list From Dick-Burnham at hoffmancorp.com Fri Jan 15 10:24:57 2010 From: Dick-Burnham at hoffmancorp.com (Dick Burnham) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 10:24:57 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] Battery Warmer Sources In-Reply-To: <435959ED7AEDF04EB5EB69F308571813040BE37F44@azsmsx501.amr.corp.intel.com> Message-ID: <170F1529B91249449A690E7E1DAA5CD9061C3A5D82@HCC-TOWER.Hoffmancorp.com> I would be interested in a discussion of the same questions but in regards to LiFe4po cells. Also, how about cooling on Lithiums while charging? Needed? Dick -----Original Message----- From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of Hansen, Chris Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:18 AM To: Daniel Anolik; Pete Skeggs Cc: Oeva-list at oeva.org Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Battery Warmer Sources I am not having major problems with my lead acid batteries although I do notice some loss of range. Not more than 20%. I charge my vehicle in my garage where the temp never gets below 50 Fahrenheit. Couple of questions: What is the typical efficiency loss of lead acid batteries in the winter at say, 50 Fahrenheit? At what temp does the loss kick in and is the loss mainly during charging or during use? Chris -----Original Message----- From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Anolik Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 6:30 PM To: Pete Skeggs Cc: Oeva-list at oeva.org Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Battery Warmer Sources Hi Pete, I used to drive an electric Geo Metro with lead acid batteries, and battery warmers. The conversion was done by Dave Cloud up in Washington, and he came up with a cheap, but affective warming solution that kept my Geo running through the coldest of Portland winter days. Here's how it worked: - Start with an electric soil heating cable, which are usually intended for heating flower boxes in cold weather, or for growing tropical plants. A quick internet search shows multiple options for around $35, including a thermostat. - Snake the heating cable back and forth along the bottom of your battery box, under the batteries. - Install the thermostat in the same battery box, but on top of the batteries. - Power the heating cable off of the AC line, when the car is plugged in for charging. - Optionally install a toggle switch on the dashboard for disabling the whole system (in warmer weather) The result was a heating system that only ran when the car was charging, the batteries were colder than 70F, and the dashboard toggle switch was enabled. Enjoy, Dan On Jan 14, 2010, at 1:34 PM, Pete Skeggs wrote: > Hi folks, > > The lead acid batteries in my 2007 Zenn are struggling to get through > this weather. I'm trying to stretch their lives as long as possible > as I don't want to replace the whole pack (6) right now if I can help it. > > I've heard that battery warmers can help significantly. I'm sure you > can walk into a Napa Autoparts store in Colorado and pick a few up > anytime you want, but I'm guessing they're not in big demand here. > > Anyone recommend a good source that's local, or else online? > > -Pete > > _______________________________________________ > Oeva-list mailing list > Oeva-list at oeva.org > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list _______________________________________________ Oeva-list mailing list Oeva-list at oeva.org http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list _______________________________________________ Oeva-list mailing list Oeva-list at oeva.org http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list --Disclaimer--Hoffman--Corporation-- This message (including any attachments) is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is non-public, proprietary, privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Although steps have been taken to check for viruses, the recipient(s) should also check to ensure messages are virus free. From chris.hansen at intel.com Fri Jan 15 10:32:33 2010 From: chris.hansen at intel.com (Hansen, Chris) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 11:32:33 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] Pure electric Chevy Volt In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <435959ED7AEDF04EB5EB69F308571813040BE37FB0@azsmsx501.amr.corp.intel.com> Don't forget the gasoline prices today include a number of local, state and federal taxes to pay for road construction and maintenance (at least that's the story) . Currently it is $0.18 federal and $0.24 state. Us driving EVs are not paying those taxes but are still causing wear and tear on the roads. If a large percentage of vehicles in the US shift over to electric, then those taxes will likely shift over to electricity increasing the cost of driving an EV higher than it is today. For an ICE driving 12000 miles/yr @ 20miles/gallon (600 gallons) that works out to almost $300/yr. Freeloading on electricity - Chris From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of Nick Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 4:59 PM To: oeva-list at oeva.org Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Pure electric Chevy Volt One could reasonably ask why GM didn't start with a "pure electric" EV and then enhance it later with a "range extended" model! I note they are now acknowledging the Volt (likely to remain vaporware) will cost >$40K (it started out at <$30K three years ago). And with dismay I note Bob Lutz (who thinks climate-change is a hoax - and doubts 'peak-oil') is still in charge of this project. Regarding the target prices of the new EV offerings: The fellow "demonstrating" the static display of the Leaf last month stated the battery lease cost [or prorated depreciation of the batteries], plus the cost of the electricity, will approximately equal our current out of pocket cost for gasoline. That is, the savings to be enjoyed because of the electricity costing a fifth to a fourth the cost of the gasoline to go a given distance, will be sent straight to the manufacturer, missing my pocket altogether! I wish to discourage the manufacturers of any such calculus! After the economies of scale have had a chance to work, there is no reason in the world why an EV should cost more than an ICE to manufacture. Just count the moving parts! That the first effort at using batteries to store re-gen energy in an automobile was the relatively complicated parallel-hybrid, non-plug-in Prius, is testimony to the power and influence of the oil companies. An equivalent plug-in EV should cost far less than a Prius, hell, less than a Yaris! Nick Galaday Vernonia, OR Energy conservation-- saves more than energy! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100115/d05aeaef/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2743 bytes Desc: image001.jpg Url : /pipermail/attachments/20100115/d05aeaef/attachment.jpg From gary.graunke at intel.com Fri Jan 15 11:01:26 2010 From: gary.graunke at intel.com (Graunke, Gary) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 11:01:26 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] FW: Battery Warmer Sources Message-ID: <9662F248D13E8C45B097A77F005E97295395E5DE@orsmsx503.amr.corp.intel.com> forgot to cc the list... -----Original Message----- From: Graunke, Gary Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:47 AM To: 'Dick Burnham' Subject: RE: [Oeva-list] Battery Warmer Sources One needs to be specific to the chemistry and even the specific product. Some are high power and don't heat up--lower power ones will for the same currents. Li Ion with Cobalt (eg, early ThunderSky cells) are very exothermic (discharge reaction produces heat) during discharge, but endothermic (the charging reaction absorbs heat). Of course, if you have too much current (go beyond the power ratings) the batteries will heat up for both operations. Lead batteries heat up during charge. NiMH heats up in both directions a lot! What you need is to measure the internal resistance for charging and discharging as a function of the ambient temperature. I have some data for LiPO4 A123 cells in my car, and as a result I don't heat or cool them. But most LiIon batteries need cooling or they will go into thermal runaway and catch fire. (I had a bunch of blowers to do this). But it all depends on your chemistry again and the power rating of the cells vs your car's power demands and charger power. I have power supplies, electronic loads, and data acquisition test equipment to evaluate this for batteries (but no chamber to control the ambient temperature). I also don't have an automatic cycling control unit, so it is a manual process. The same issues apply to battery internal resistance as a function of ambient temperature. Gary -----Original Message----- From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of Dick Burnham Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:25 AM To: Hansen, Chris; Daniel Anolik; Pete Skeggs Cc: Oeva-list at oeva.org Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Battery Warmer Sources I would be interested in a discussion of the same questions but in regards to LiFe4po cells. Also, how about cooling on Lithiums while charging? Needed? Dick -----Original Message----- From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of Hansen, Chris Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 10:18 AM To: Daniel Anolik; Pete Skeggs Cc: Oeva-list at oeva.org Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Battery Warmer Sources I am not having major problems with my lead acid batteries although I do notice some loss of range. Not more than 20%. I charge my vehicle in my garage where the temp never gets below 50 Fahrenheit. Couple of questions: What is the typical efficiency loss of lead acid batteries in the winter at say, 50 Fahrenheit? At what temp does the loss kick in and is the loss mainly during charging or during use? Chris -----Original Message----- From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Anolik Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 6:30 PM To: Pete Skeggs Cc: Oeva-list at oeva.org Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Battery Warmer Sources Hi Pete, I used to drive an electric Geo Metro with lead acid batteries, and battery warmers. The conversion was done by Dave Cloud up in Washington, and he came up with a cheap, but affective warming solution that kept my Geo running through the coldest of Portland winter days. Here's how it worked: - Start with an electric soil heating cable, which are usually intended for heating flower boxes in cold weather, or for growing tropical plants. A quick internet search shows multiple options for around $35, including a thermostat. - Snake the heating cable back and forth along the bottom of your battery box, under the batteries. - Install the thermostat in the same battery box, but on top of the batteries. - Power the heating cable off of the AC line, when the car is plugged in for charging. - Optionally install a toggle switch on the dashboard for disabling the whole system (in warmer weather) The result was a heating system that only ran when the car was charging, the batteries were colder than 70F, and the dashboard toggle switch was enabled. Enjoy, Dan On Jan 14, 2010, at 1:34 PM, Pete Skeggs wrote: > Hi folks, > > The lead acid batteries in my 2007 Zenn are struggling to get through > this weather. I'm trying to stretch their lives as long as possible > as I don't want to replace the whole pack (6) right now if I can help it. > > I've heard that battery warmers can help significantly. I'm sure you > can walk into a Napa Autoparts store in Colorado and pick a few up > anytime you want, but I'm guessing they're not in big demand here. > > Anyone recommend a good source that's local, or else online? > > -Pete > > _______________________________________________ > Oeva-list mailing list > Oeva-list at oeva.org > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list _______________________________________________ Oeva-list mailing list Oeva-list at oeva.org http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list _______________________________________________ Oeva-list mailing list Oeva-list at oeva.org http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list --Disclaimer--Hoffman--Corporation-- This message (including any attachments) is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is non-public, proprietary, privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Although steps have been taken to check for viruses, the recipient(s) should also check to ensure messages are virus free. _______________________________________________ Oeva-list mailing list Oeva-list at oeva.org http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list From Wendy.Marshall at greshamoregon.gov Thu Jan 21 09:05:20 2010 From: Wendy.Marshall at greshamoregon.gov (Marshall, Wendy) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 09:05:20 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] Lincoln City Article In-Reply-To: References: <97205B70-E6E4-4832-BE32-D1C6D7D91FA7@chargenw.com> Message-ID: <60E4783479EDEF4FB4831CB8D29D3D2C2F841BAC31@JUNGLE.gresham.gov> I love it! I have an outlet in my driveway anybody can use right now for free...bring me your tired your poor your discharged EV! Wendy Gresham, OR From: garry painter [mailto:garry at europa.com] Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 2:18 PM To: OEVA Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Lincoln City Article Hmmmm... I just had a thought. If someone were to knock on your door, and tell you that their EV needed about 1kwh of juice to get home, would anyone turn them away? Or would you hand them the female end of your extension cord? Perhaps I'm just thinking too far into the future where I imagine every parking spot in every town will have a charge station. I'd like a cheap little cheesy unit in front of my house at the curb that someone can pop a quarter into, such that they don't interrupt my dinner. Those chargepoint stations are ok I guess for now, but when you're talking 300 million or more of them, you're looking at over a trillion dollars. Perhaps Coulomb should develop a VolksCharger model for the non-municipality funded geeks like me. Or, it could be, that I'm simply insane. These are the headlines I'd rather see: http://home.europa.com/~garry/CrazyHeadlines.html garry On Jan 9, 2010, at 10:49 AM, Jim Blaisdell wrote: Hi Folks, it would be great if a few if you could make it to Lincoln City on Monday for the unveiling. Here is an article about the event. http://www.newportnewstimes.com/v2_news_articles.php?heading=0&page=72&story_id=22046 Jim Blaisdell Charge Northwest Coulomb, Chargepoint Distributors 22322 NE 157th St Woodinville, WA 98077 253-304-5625 cell 253-265-0919 office http://www.chargenw.com/ P Please consider the environment before printing this message. _______________________________________________ Oeva-list mailing list Oeva-list at oeva.org http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100121/8f145ac8/attachment.html From davew at teleport.com Thu Jan 21 10:37:49 2010 From: davew at teleport.com (Dave Wert) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 10:37:49 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] IEEE Spectrum: Loser: Why the Chevy Volt Will Fizzle Message-ID: Good article http://spectrum.ieee.org/green-tech/advanced-cars/loser-why-the-chevy-volt-w ill-fizzle/1 Regards, Dave Wert From gary.graunke at intel.com Thu Jan 21 14:22:35 2010 From: gary.graunke at intel.com (Graunke, Gary) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 14:22:35 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] Lincoln City Article In-Reply-To: <60E4783479EDEF4FB4831CB8D29D3D2C2F841BAC31@JUNGLE.gresham.gov> References: <97205B70-E6E4-4832-BE32-D1C6D7D91FA7@chargenw.com> <60E4783479EDEF4FB4831CB8D29D3D2C2F841BAC31@JUNGLE.gresham.gov> Message-ID: <9662F248D13E8C45B097A77F005E972953AF9B7E@orsmsx503.amr.corp.intel.com> The Lincoln City charging also made the Oregonian (it was in the local paper last week). The picture is Joanne Daschel's minivan. http://www.oregonlive.com/environment/index.ssf/2010/01/lincoln_city_truly_a_green_pow.html We're always glad to find new charging stations. I need to find out how to get the PGE list on my iPhone (it vectors me to a mobile version of their website instead of the real thing). Since it is now 10 years old (7 years as an EV), I decided to take my car into Hawthorne Auto Clinic to have the brakes and other things checked. They were fine! (But the tires needed rotating). I haven't had any service in the last 7 years. While I was there, I found the two charging stations at the Hawthorne Fred Meyer-they are on the roof parking area. The breakers were off, and I doubt that they have been used. I may go up there later just to make sure they are working..... Maybe we should have the best EV charging map program (that actually works from an iPhone or similar web browsing phone) on our own website. Gary ________________________________ From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of Marshall, Wendy Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 9:05 AM To: 'garry painter'; OEVA Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Lincoln City Article I love it! I have an outlet in my driveway anybody can use right now for free...bring me your tired your poor your discharged EV! Wendy Gresham, OR From: garry painter [mailto:garry at europa.com] Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 2:18 PM To: OEVA Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Lincoln City Article Hmmmm... I just had a thought. If someone were to knock on your door, and tell you that their EV needed about 1kwh of juice to get home, would anyone turn them away? Or would you hand them the female end of your extension cord? Perhaps I'm just thinking too far into the future where I imagine every parking spot in every town will have a charge station. I'd like a cheap little cheesy unit in front of my house at the curb that someone can pop a quarter into, such that they don't interrupt my dinner. Those chargepoint stations are ok I guess for now, but when you're talking 300 million or more of them, you're looking at over a trillion dollars. Perhaps Coulomb should develop a VolksCharger model for the non-municipality funded geeks like me. Or, it could be, that I'm simply insane. These are the headlines I'd rather see: http://home.europa.com/~garry/CrazyHeadlines.html garry On Jan 9, 2010, at 10:49 AM, Jim Blaisdell wrote: Hi Folks, it would be great if a few if you could make it to Lincoln City on Monday for the unveiling. Here is an article about the event. http://www.newportnewstimes.com/v2_news_articles.php?heading=0&page=72&story_id=22046 Jim Blaisdell Charge Northwest Coulomb, Chargepoint Distributors 22322 NE 157th St Woodinville, WA 98077 253-304-5625 cell 253-265-0919 office http://www.chargenw.com/ P Please consider the environment before printing this message. _______________________________________________ Oeva-list mailing list Oeva-list at oeva.org http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100121/89fe46c5/attachment.html From davew at teleport.com Thu Jan 21 17:46:17 2010 From: davew at teleport.com (Dave Wert) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 17:46:17 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] IEEE Spectrum: Loser: Why the Chevy Volt Will Fizzle (Fixed Link) Message-ID: http://spectrum.ieee.org/green-tech/advanced-cars/loser-why-the-chevy-volt-w ill-fizzle From carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com Fri Jan 22 08:37:00 2010 From: carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com (Carey Dahlen) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 08:37:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Oeva-list] New Invention - "Hybrid" Power Generation. Message-ID: <355718.83815.qm@web501.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello, My name is Carey Dahlen. I have invented a new way to use electricity to increase the output of electrical systems as a whole. I have invented a New ?Hybrid? Electric Motor / Generator System. My Patent Pending Utility Application, serial number 12/504,309. Filed in the United States Patent and Trademark Office effective July 16, 2009 is due for early publication to the National Stage by March 2010. ? My System allows for; Electric Vehicles to Re-Charge themselves, when not in propulsion mode. Increase (existing) EV System output by 50%. My machine installs anywhere in a vehicle between batteries and propulsion motor.? My website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com Contains my Accreditations, Photos, Prototype Video, Notes to Drawings, Future Plans, Design Concepts, Press, Links and more information. ? This is new and exciting!???? Please Forward!? I see things from a technical standpoint "Feed Back" would be?Appreciated.? Thank You Carey Dahlen, Inventor - CEO EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC 3D Propulsion, LLC? Website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com Business; 541-227-9063 ? Copyright ??2009 EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC All Rights Reserved. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100122/0ce37a8d/attachment-0001.html From tim_kutscha at yahoo.com Fri Jan 22 09:14:36 2010 From: tim_kutscha at yahoo.com (Tim Kutscha) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 09:14:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Oeva-list] Someone in Montana selling a 144V pack of ThunderSkys Message-ID: <658017.64038.qm@web110508.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> John Barton from Montana is interested in selling his 45 100Ah Thundersky Lithium batteries. Please contact John directly (john_barton at yahoo.com) if interested. Cheers, Tim ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: John Barton To: Tim Kutscha Sent: Fri, January 22, 2010 8:35:26 AM Subject: Re: LFP cells Hi Tim, They are $5820 new from evcomponents and the Paktrakr was $706. I would sell them for 10% off that or $5870. Thanks > Hi Tim, > > I don't know what you decided to do about replacement > batteries but if you are interested I would sell you my 45 > Thundersky 100Ah LFP cells and a Lithium Paktrakr 800 for > them. They only have about 5 charges on them. > > Let me know, > John > > > > From tim_kutscha at yahoo.com Fri Jan 22 09:11:25 2010 From: tim_kutscha at yahoo.com (Tim Kutscha) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 09:11:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Oeva-list] Huh? Electric Batmobile? Message-ID: <557390.26725.qm@web110507.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Anyone want an electric Batmobile? I wonder how fast it will go at a whopping 48 volts... :) http://www.evtradinpost.com/index.php?list=advertisement&method=showdetails&rollid=3709 hint: click on the picture on the left Cheers, Tim From plskeggs at noeticdesign.com Fri Jan 22 14:55:26 2010 From: plskeggs at noeticdesign.com (Pete Skeggs) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 14:55:26 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] PGE Charging Stations Message-ID: <4B5A2CDE.1070301@noeticdesign.com> Hi, I was charging a bit today at the SW 1st and Salmon stations, and noticed that one of the two 110v outlets is not working (yes, I flipped the breaker a few times and checked each time, to no avail). There are no phone numbers on or near the chargers that I could find to report it. I mentioned it to a person in the PGE payment center (visible from the chargers) but they didn't know anything about it.... Anyone know? Also, anyone have a clear idea of the parking charges there? The sign seems somewhat confusing to me. It says: Electric Vehicles * Must Pay to Park * Must be Charging * May Park Without Time Limit * Start with Electric Vehicle Button * $1.60 per hour "May Park Without Time Limit" seems to imply that it doesn't matter what you pay, as long as you're charging you are ok. But then it says $1.60 per hour. Which is it? -Pete -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100122/9a25305d/attachment.html From patrick0101 at gmail.com Fri Jan 22 16:09:17 2010 From: patrick0101 at gmail.com (patrick0101 at gmail.com) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 16:09:17 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] Environment Oregon Plug-in Whitepaper Message-ID: <8c28d7b51001221609r702e2470he488a1a1dbfec11b@mail.gmail.com> Environment Oregon has just released a sustainable transportation report highlighting the benefits of plug-in vehicles http://bit.ly/8UtH0T Cheers, Pat Plug In, Charge Up, Drive Off =D~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100122/b6035535/attachment.html From jeff.shorepower at gmail.com Fri Jan 22 16:53:51 2010 From: jeff.shorepower at gmail.com (Jeff Kim) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 16:53:51 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] PGE Charging Stations In-Reply-To: <4B5A2CDE.1070301@noeticdesign.com> References: <4B5A2CDE.1070301@noeticdesign.com> Message-ID: <83b7b17c1001221653m3876fcfft7f6f2a950b446c9e@mail.gmail.com> If the breaker trips, it has to be pushed (hard) into the off position to reset it, then it can be turned back on again. I'll check it on my way home. Jeff Kim President Shorepower Technologies 2351 NW York Street Portland, OR 97210 Office (503) 892-7345 Mobile (503) 686-8844 Fax (503) 802-7347 jkim at shorepower.com www.shorepower.com On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Pete Skeggs wrote: > Hi, > > I was charging a bit today at the SW 1st and Salmon stations, and noticed > that one of the two 110v outlets is not working (yes, I flipped the breaker > a few times and checked each time, to no avail). There are no phone numbers > on or near the chargers that I could find to report it. I mentioned it to a > person in the PGE payment center (visible from the chargers) but they didn't > know anything about it.... Anyone know? > > Also, anyone have a clear idea of the parking charges there? The sign > seems somewhat confusing to me. It says: > > Electric Vehicles > > > - Must Pay to Park > - Must be Charging > - May Park Without Time Limit > - Start with Electric Vehicle Button > - $1.60 per hour > > > "May Park Without Time Limit" seems to imply that it doesn't matter what > you pay, as long as you're charging you are ok. But then it says $1.60 per > hour. Which is it? > > -Pete > > > _______________________________________________ > Oeva-list mailing list > Oeva-list at oeva.org > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100122/64a75ac0/attachment.html From Rick.Durst at pgn.com Sat Jan 23 08:16:12 2010 From: Rick.Durst at pgn.com (Rick Durst) Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 08:16:12 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] PGE Charging Stations Message-ID: The charges are $1.60 per hour and as an EV you can park all day, although that is expensive, it is consistent with the on street parking for non-EVs. The EV button allows you to purchase a parking pass for more than 2 hours. The pass is printed with EV charging only, so don't try to use it not in an EV Spot. Make sure you are plugged in as well. They just put new signs to make it clearer that those spots are for EVs only. There have been many an ICE vehicle ticketed and towed. For problems with the charger, call the WTC electricians at 503-464-8699 or stop by the security desk in the 1 or 3 buildings. I will arrange to get a phone number on the station. After hours support is generally not available. Rick Durst PGE ________________________________ From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org To: oeva-list at oeva.org Sent: Fri Jan 22 14:55:26 2010 Subject: [Oeva-list] PGE Charging Stations Hi, I was charging a bit today at the SW 1st and Salmon stations, and noticed that one of the two 110v outlets is not working (yes, I flipped the breaker a few times and checked each time, to no avail). There are no phone numbers on or near the chargers that I could find to report it. I mentioned it to a person in the PGE payment center (visible from the chargers) but they didn't know anything about it.... Anyone know? Also, anyone have a clear idea of the parking charges there? The sign seems somewhat confusing to me. It says: Electric Vehicles * Must Pay to Park * Must be Charging * May Park Without Time Limit * Start with Electric Vehicle Button * $1.60 per hour "May Park Without Time Limit" seems to imply that it doesn't matter what you pay, as long as you're charging you are ok. But then it says $1.60 per hour. Which is it? -Pete -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100123/bb1fdb55/attachment.html From cje at hevanet.com Sun Jan 24 10:29:55 2010 From: cje at hevanet.com (cje at hevanet.com) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 18:29:55 GMT Subject: [Oeva-list] New Invention - "Hybrid" Power Generation. Message-ID: <201001241829.o0OITt2J085594@broadway.hevanet.com> It "keeps charging itself after it's not running anymore, like a cooling fan stays on after the engine is off"...?? Curt > Hello, > My name is Carey Dahlen. > I have invented a new way to use electricity to increase the output of elec> trical systems as a whole. > > I have invented a New ???Hybrid??? Electric Motor / Generator S> ystem. > My Patent Pending Utility Application, serial number 12/504,309. Filed in t> he United States Patent and Trademark Office effective July 16, 2009 is due> for early publication to the National Stage by March 2010. > ?? > My System allows for; > Electric Vehicles to Re-Charge themselves, when not in propulsion mode. > Increase (existing) EV System output by 50%. My machine installs anywhere i> n a vehicle between batteries and propulsion motor.?? > > My website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com Contains my Accreditations, Photo> s, Prototype Video, Notes to Drawings, Future Plans, Design Concepts, Press> , Links and more information. > ?? > This is new and exciting!???????? Please Forward!?? > I see things from a technical standpoint "Feed Back" would be??Apprecia> ted.?? > > > Thank You > Carey Dahlen, > Inventor - CEO > EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC > 3D Propulsion, LLC?? > Website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com > Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com > Business; 541-227-9063 > ?? > Copyright ????2009 EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC > All Rights Reserved. All Rights Reserved. From estorey at clackamascountybank.com Fri Jan 22 13:11:49 2010 From: estorey at clackamascountybank.com (Ed Storey) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 13:11:49 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] Ideas for controller for 36vdc cushman truckster Message-ID: <933CD3DD9A8AB84B8474D462332FA0DC0DA47F8FA6@Exchange.clackamascountybank.local> We are converting a 36 volt Cushman truckster from an electro-mechanical speed control and resistor coils to a pot box and modern controller. My research so far tells me we need to use either a curtis 1204-0xx or an alltrax 4834 or 4844. We don't want to push the old GE series motor too hard but a few more amps would be ok. If you have time to share your recommendations, we would appreciate it. Ed Storey My email at the shop is edjackie88 at aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100122/d21de332/attachment.html From chris at darkstarpro.com Sun Jan 24 12:05:46 2010 From: chris at darkstarpro.com (Chris Arnesen) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 12:05:46 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] New Invention - "Hybrid" Power Generation. In-Reply-To: <201001241829.o0OITt2J085594@broadway.hevanet.com> References: <201001241829.o0OITt2J085594@broadway.hevanet.com> Message-ID: <4B5CA81A.5010104@darkstarpro.com> I love reading emails like this because I always wonder how people get around the laws of physics. You can't get something for nothing! --Chris On 1/24/2010 10:29 AM, cje at hevanet.com wrote: > It "keeps charging itself after it's not running anymore, like a > cooling fan stays on after the engine is off"...?? > > Curt > > > >> Hello, >> My name is Carey Dahlen. >> I have invented a new way to use electricity to increase the output of >> > elec> trical systems as a whole. > >> >> I have invented a New ???Hybrid??? Electric Motor / Generator >> > S> ystem. > >> My Patent Pending Utility Application, serial number 12/504,309. >> > Filed in > t> he United States Patent and Trademark Office effective July 16, 2009 > is > due> for early publication to the National Stage by March 2010. > >> ? >> My System allows for; >> Electric Vehicles to Re-Charge themselves, when not in propulsion >> > mode. > >> Increase (existing) EV System output by 50%. My machine installs >> > anywhere > i> n a vehicle between batteries and propulsion motor.? > >> My website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com Contains my Accreditations, >> > Photo> s, Prototype Video, Notes to Drawings, Future Plans, Design > Concepts, > Press> , Links and more information. > >> ? >> This is new and exciting!? ? ? ? Please Forward!? >> I see things from a technical standpoint "Feed Back" would >> > be? Apprecia> ted.? > >> >> Thank You >> Carey Dahlen, >> Inventor - CEO >> EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC >> 3D Propulsion, LLC? >> Website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com >> Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com >> Business; 541-227-9063 >> ? >> Copyright ??? 2009 EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC >> All Rights Reserved. >> > All Rights Reserved. > From cje at hevanet.com Sun Jan 24 12:16:29 2010 From: cje at hevanet.com (cje at hevanet.com) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 20:16:29 GMT Subject: [Oeva-list] New Invention - "Hybrid" Power Generation. Message-ID: <201001242016.o0OKGT1Q088926@broadway.hevanet.com> I bet it taps into orgone energy. Curt > I love reading emails like this because I always wonder how people get > around the laws of physics. You can't get something for nothing! > > --Chris > > On 1/24/2010 10:29 AM, cje at hevanet.com wrote: > > It "keeps charging itself after it's not running anymore, like a > > cooling fan stays on after the engine is off"...?? > > > > Curt > > > > > > > >> Hello, > >> My name is Carey Dahlen. > >> I have invented a new way to use electricity to increase the output of > >> > > elec> trical systems as a whole. > > > >> > >> I have invented a New ???Hybrid??? Electric Motor / Generator > >> > > S> ystem. > > > >> My Patent Pending Utility Application, serial number 12/504,309. > >> > > Filed in > > t> he United States Patent and Trademark Office effective July 16, 2009 > > is > > due> for early publication to the National Stage by March 2010. > > > >> ? > >> My System allows for; > >> Electric Vehicles to Re-Charge themselves, when not in propulsion > >> > > mode. > > > >> Increase (existing) EV System output by 50%. My machine installs > >> > > anywhere > > i> n a vehicle between batteries and propulsion motor.? > > > >> My website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com Contains my Accreditations, > >> > > Photo> s, Prototype Video, Notes to Drawings, Future Plans, Design > > Concepts, > > Press> , Links and more information. > > > >> ? > >> This is new and exciting!? ? ? ? Please Forward!? > >> I see things from a technical standpoint "Feed Back" would > >> > > be? Apprecia> ted.? > > > >> > >> Thank You > >> Carey Dahlen, > >> Inventor - CEO > >> EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC > >> 3D Propulsion, LLC? > >> Website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com > >> Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com > >> Business; 541-227-9063 > >> ? > >> Copyright ??? 2009 EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC > >> All Rights Reserved. > >> > > All Rights Reserved. > > > > > From dannyb61 at comcast.net Sun Jan 24 12:39:38 2010 From: dannyb61 at comcast.net (Dan Bortel) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 12:39:38 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] New Invention - "Hybrid" Power Generation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Carey, Have you contacted Bruce Meland at Electrifying Times Magazine? He is a big supporter of over unity devices and may like to do an article about you and your invention. http://www.electrifyingtimes.com/ Dan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 08:37:00 -0800 (PST) From: Carey Dahlen Subject: [Oeva-list] New Invention - "Hybrid" Power Generation. To: Oeva-list at oeva.org Message-ID: <355718.83815.qm at web501.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hello, My name is Carey Dahlen. I have invented a new way to use electricity to increase the output of electrical systems as a whole. I have invented a New ?Hybrid? Electric Motor / Generator System. My Patent Pending Utility Application, serial number 12/504,309. Filed in the United States Patent and Trademark Office effective July 16, 2009 is due for early publication to the National Stage by March 2010. ? My System allows for; Electric Vehicles to Re-Charge themselves, when not in propulsion mode. Increase (existing) EV System output by 50%. My machine installs anywhere in a vehicle between batteries and propulsion motor.? My website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com Contains my Accreditations, Photos, Prototype Video, Notes to Drawings, Future Plans, Design Concepts, Press, Links and more information. ? This is new and exciting!???? Please Forward!? I see things from a technical standpoint "Feed Back" would be?Appreciated.? Thank You Carey Dahlen, Inventor - CEO EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC 3D Propulsion, LLC? Website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com Business; 541-227-9063 ? Copyright ??2009 EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC All Rights Reserved. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 7818 bytes Desc: not available Url : /pipermail/attachments/20100124/2e436604/attachment.bin From carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com Sun Jan 24 17:37:15 2010 From: carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com (Carey Dahlen) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 17:37:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Oeva-list] New Invention - "Hybrid" Power Generation. Message-ID: <440868.47933.qm@web506.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> FEEDBACK?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? 1/24/10 ? Chris & Curt???????????????????????????????????????????? ? Thank you for you feedback.? ? I appreciate your skepticism. I was also until I conceived the ?Star of David? concept and tested my first prototype. Consider this for an EV application. My 3D design is like one motor turning two generators interconnected with separate turning ratios and independent windings for rotors and stators. This allows for the ability to compound and multiply the multiple outputs from the machine. The multiple winding configurations also allow Ac & Dc output, as well as single and three phases of Ac. ? As to the matter of a vehicle recharging it?s self! It will be accomplished with control circuitry through the main distribution buss when not in drive mode. ? I hope this helps. Thank you for the feedback. =D~~~~~ ? ? ? Carey Dahlen, CEO EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC 3D Propulsion, LLC? Website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com Business; 541-227-9063 ? Copyright ??2009 EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC All Rights Reserved. --- On Sun, 1/24/10, cje at hevanet.com wrote: From: cje at hevanet.com Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] New Invention - "Hybrid" Power Generation. To: "Chris Arnesen" , oeva-list at oeva.org Date: Sunday, January 24, 2010, 12:16 PM I bet it taps into orgone energy. Curt > I love reading emails like this because I always wonder how people get > around the laws of physics. You can't get something for nothing! > > --Chris > > On 1/24/2010 10:29 AM, cje at hevanet.com wrote: > > It "keeps charging itself after it's not running anymore, like a > > cooling fan stays on after the engine is off"...?? > > > > Curt > > > > > >? ? > >> Hello, > >> My name is Carey Dahlen. > >> I have invented a new way to use electricity to increase the output of > >>? ? ? > > elec>? trical systems as a whole. > >? ? > >> > >> I have invented a New ???Hybrid??? Electric Motor / Generator > >>? ? ? > > S>? ystem. > >? ? > >> My Patent Pending Utility Application, serial number 12/504,309. > >>? ? ? > > Filed in > > t>? he United States Patent and Trademark Office effective July 16, 2009 > > is > > due>???for early publication to the National Stage by March 2010. > >? ? > >> ? > >> My System allows for; > >> Electric Vehicles to Re-Charge themselves, when not in propulsion > >>? ? ? > > mode. > >? ? > >> Increase (existing) EV System output by 50%. My machine installs > >>? ? ? > > anywhere > > i>? n a vehicle between batteries and propulsion motor.? > >? ? > >> My website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com Contains my Accreditations, > >>? ? ? > > Photo>? s, Prototype Video, Notes to Drawings, Future Plans, Design > > Concepts, > > Press>? , Links and more information. > >? ? > >> ? > >> This is new and exciting!? ? ? ?? Please Forward!? > >> I see things from a technical standpoint "Feed Back" would > >>? ? ? > > be? Apprecia>? ted.? > >? ? > >> > >> Thank You > >> Carey Dahlen, > >> Inventor - CEO > >> EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC > >> 3D Propulsion, LLC? > >> Website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com > >> Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com > >> Business; 541-227-9063 > >> ? > >> Copyright ??? 2009 EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC > >> All Rights Reserved. > >>? ? ? > > All Rights Reserved. > >? ? > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Oeva-list mailing list Oeva-list at oeva.org http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100124/7367932a/attachment-0001.html From morbiusx1 at hotmail.com Sun Jan 24 19:13:59 2010 From: morbiusx1 at hotmail.com (mark barthemer) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 19:13:59 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] free power Message-ID: Greetings - When I took an electronics class at OMSI as an 8-year old, I had the brilliant idea that if I connected the shaft of an electric motor to a generator, and fed the generator output back to the motor, it would run forever with no inputs. The teachers were wise enough to let me try it out. Little did I (& they) realize that the breakthrough, which we missed & this guy did not, was to connect TWO generators to the motor. D'oh! Confusion to the Enemy! Mark Parthemer _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390707/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100124/eb8048c5/attachment.html From Theoldcars at aol.com Sun Jan 24 19:49:10 2010 From: Theoldcars at aol.com (Theoldcars at aol.com) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 22:49:10 EST Subject: [Oeva-list] New Invention - "Hybrid" Power Generation Message-ID: <335a.386c2dbf.388e6eb6@aol.com> Hello Chris That makes two of us. Except maybe we need to look at it this way. You send me money and you get nothing. So there you go you do get something for nothing. I went to the web site it is fairly extensive and yet has any substance. Usually you think of this type of thing with PO boxes to send money to. After going to the Web site I was very disappointed to see the link to the OEVA. Don In a message dated 1/24/2010 5:37:39 PM Pacific Standard Time, oeva-list-request at oeva.org writes: Message: 1 Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 12:05:46 -0800 From: Chris Arnesen Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] New Invention - "Hybrid" Power Generation. To: oeva-list at oeva.org Message-ID: <4B5CA81A.5010104 at darkstarpro.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed I love reading emails like this because I always wonder how people get around the laws of physics. You can't get something for nothing! --Chris On 1/24/2010 10:29 AM, cje at hevanet.com wrote: > It "keeps charging itself after it's not running anymore, like a > cooling fan stays on after the engine is off"...?? > > Curt > > > >> Hello, >> My name is Carey Dahlen. >> I have invented a new way to use electricity to increase the output of >> > elec> trical systems as a whole. > >> >> I have invented a New ???Hybrid??? Electric Motor / Generator >> > S> ystem. > >> My Patent Pending Utility Application, serial number 12/504,309. >> > Filed in > t> he United States Patent and Trademark Office effective July 16, 2009 > is > due> for early publication to the National Stage by March 2010. > >> ? >> My System allows for; >> Electric Vehicles to Re-Charge themselves, when not in propulsion >> > mode. > >> Increase (existing) EV System output by 50%. My machine installs >> > anywhere > i> n a vehicle between batteries and propulsion motor.? > >> My website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com Contains my Accreditations, >> > Photo> s, Prototype Video, Notes to Drawings, Future Plans, Design > Concepts, > Press> , Links and more information. > >> ? >> This is new and exciting!? ? ? ? Please Forward!? >> I see things from a technical standpoint "Feed Back" would >> > be? Apprecia> ted.? > >> >> Thank You >> Carey Dahlen, >> Inventor - CEO >> EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC >> 3D Propulsion, LLC? >> Website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com >> Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com >> Business; 541-227-9063 >> ? >> Copyright ??? 2009 EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC >> All Rights Reserved. >> > All Rights Reserved. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100124/c452123e/attachment.html From gfifield at onlinenw.com Sun Jan 24 21:59:03 2010 From: gfifield at onlinenw.com (gfifield at onlinenw.com) Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 21:59:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Oeva-list] free power In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: When I was eight years old I made drawing of a water powered car that would use a paddle wheel to generate the motive power and at the same time pull water up to the top of the chamber. Just think how rich I could be if I had only followed though on that idea! Gene > > Greetings - When I took an electronics class at OMSI as an 8-year old, I > had the brilliant idea that if I connected the shaft of an electric motor > to a generator, and fed the generator output back to the motor, it would > run forever with no inputs. The teachers were wise enough to let me try > it out. Little did I (& they) realize that the breakthrough, which we > missed & this guy did not, was to connect TWO generators to the motor. > D'oh! > > Confusion to the Enemy! Mark Parthemer > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390707/direct/01/_______________________________________________ > Oeva-list mailing list > Oeva-list at oeva.org > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > From cje at hevanet.com Mon Jan 25 06:42:14 2010 From: cje at hevanet.com (cje at hevanet.com) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 14:42:14 GMT Subject: [Oeva-list] free power Message-ID: <201001251442.o0PEgEF3018995@broadway.hevanet.com> Tough crowd, eh Carey? "Two generators hooked to the motor" lost us, I do believe. I liked the guy that was on Lars Larson a couple years ago who hooked up a water tank to his car battery, bubbled hydrogen out of the tank, and fed the hydrogen into his air cleaner as a range extender. Do you maybe sell a kit to do that, too? Or is your specialty free electricity? Curt > When I was eight years old I made drawing of a water powered car that > would use a paddle wheel to generate the motive power and at the same time > pull water up to the top of the chamber. > Just think how rich I could be if I had only followed though on that idea! > Gene > > > > Greetings - When I took an electronics class at OMSI as an 8-year old, I > > had the brilliant idea that if I connected the shaft of an electric motor > > to a generator, and fed the generator output back to the motor, it would > > run forever with no inputs. The teachers were wise enough to let me try > > it out. Little did I (& they) realize that the breakthrough, which we > > missed & this guy did not, was to connect TWO generators to the motor. > > D'oh! > > > > Confusion to the Enemy! Mark Parthemer > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390707/direct/01/________________________ _______________________ > > Oeva-list mailing list > > Oeva-list at oeva.org > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Oeva-list mailing list > Oeva-list at oeva.org > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > From carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com Mon Jan 25 08:31:03 2010 From: carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com (Carey Dahlen) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 08:31:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Oeva-list] Oeva Members Only. 3DMGS Limited Access to Abstract Message-ID: <163582.84395.qm@web507.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> This information is?FREE to Oeva Members!?? The Jury! ? In an effort to do my part to help our local Oregon EV economy, create green jobs for Oregonians, quell suspicions and open a clear dialog. ? For a limited time I?will provide?the complete abstract of my invention so we can all be on the same page. ? This?information is now located on my website at the bottom of "Invention Notes Description" page, highlighted in green. (Abstract)? Please Note; File size 5MB.? Drawings Pages 24 - 31. ? Please keep?an open?mind, I have the working prototypes! This is exciting Stuff!!!!? When was the last time anything really new came along in the Power Generation Field! ? I look forward to your feedback! Thank you, =D~~~~~ Carey Dahlen, CEO EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC 3D Propulsion, LLC? Website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com Business; 541-227-9063 ? Copyright ??2009 - 2010?EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC All Rights Reserved. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100125/645ccca8/attachment.html From greenerwheels at gmail.com Mon Jan 25 11:10:46 2010 From: greenerwheels at gmail.com (steve boser) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 11:10:46 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] New Invention - "Hybrid" Power Generation. In-Reply-To: <440868.47933.qm@web506.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <440868.47933.qm@web506.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <62256f591001251110g2579adc4h79d48d87b81f3e93@mail.gmail.com> Hi Carey With number of people convinced stuff like HHO generators work, you should have little problem getting funding, maybe even a grant. You however should do some googling on Carl Tilley and don't go down that road, and whatever you do, don't put your motor in a DeLorean, I'd suggest a Geo Metro Best of luck with your device, I think we all would like it to work. Steve Boser From cje at hevanet.com Mon Jan 25 11:20:53 2010 From: cje at hevanet.com (cje at hevanet.com) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 19:20:53 GMT Subject: [Oeva-list] Oeva Members Only. 3DMGS Limited Access to Abstract Message-ID: <201001251920.o0PJKrT0034094@broadway.hevanet.com> You got to understand here -- you're going to run into skeptics. It originally looked like you've invented a perpetual motion machine. I'm not sure, after poring over your abstract, that that's what you're getting at -- but I'm dipped if I can figure out what it's supposed to do. Charge when it's not running? That wasn't in the abstract. So you run more than one rotor -- what's that get you? Electric motors are a mature technology, and I'm not sure what yours is supposed to do that's different. A professional technical writer might help you out some, too. Curt > This information is?FREE to Oeva Members!?? The Jury! > ? > In an effort to do my part to help our local Oregon EV economy, create gree> n jobs for Oregonians, quell suspicions and open a clear dialog. > ? > For a limited time I?will provide?the complete abstract of my invention> so we can all be on the same page. > ? > This?information is now located on my website at the bottom of > "Invention Notes Description" page, highlighted in green. (Abstract)? > Please Note; File size 5MB.? Drawings Pages 24 - 31. > ? > Please keep?an open?mind, I have the working prototypes! > This is exciting Stuff!!!!? > When was the last time anything really new came along in the Power Generati> on Field! > ? > I look forward to your feedback! > Thank you, =D~~~~~ > > Carey Dahlen, CEO > EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC > 3D Propulsion, LLC? > Website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com > Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com > Business; 541-227-9063 > ? > Copyright ??2009 - 2010?EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC > All Rights Reserved. All Rights Reserved. From matwete at comcast.net Mon Jan 25 11:47:47 2010 From: matwete at comcast.net (Myles Twete) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 11:47:47 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] New Invention - "Hybrid" Power Generation. In-Reply-To: <4B5CA81A.5010104@darkstarpro.com> References: <201001241829.o0OITt2J085594@broadway.hevanet.com> <4B5CA81A.5010104@darkstarpro.com> Message-ID: <005601ca9df7$4e8df6d0$eba9e470$@net> >I love reading emails like this because I always wonder how people get around the laws of physics. You can't get something for nothing! Yeah, but we all have better things to do with our lives than to listen to Free Energy drivel on this and other practical propulsion lists. When you read everything on his website, you realize that all he has discovered is that you can embed a separately wound generator into the same housing (and plane) as the drive motor. So what? And so ignoring the claims of self-sufficiency and generating more power than was put in, he repeatedly mentions the more realistic expectation that this 3d motor generates power "when not in propulsion mode". Not mentioned is that the motor/generator will quickly spin down as power is drawn from it. Any permanent magnet DC motor will do this. It's not clear to me that the 'inventor' of this gizmo really understands electromagnetic theory or realizes the dualities between magnetic and electric interactions. It's not clear to me that he's ever used motor/generator equations such as these: Vm = Kb*wm + Rm*Im ; Tm=Kt*Im - Tf ; Kb=Kt. I hear lots of ambition and read unsubstantiated claims on his website, but basically, this is someone trolling for investment money. His "Star of David" motor invention description uses the classic hypnotic free-energy inventor mantra---I've seen this for over 25 years now, from Joseph Newman's free energy motors (including his 300+ page tome on its theory of operations and how his motor converted electron mass to energy directly with E=mc^2) to Bruce DePalma's "N-Machine" (which was nothing more than a permanent magnet homopolar motor/generator---highly efficient (94%+ possible), but claims of 300pct efficiency were never publicly demonstrated). Common to all of these invention claims are: (1) they claim something new and give a catchy new name to it (N-machine, Star Of David motor, etc.); (2) they give you just enough description or hyperbole to capture your imagination, but often smartly not enough to set off your smell alarm; (3) they make free-energy claims or use ambiguous claims that sound like free-energy claims, but then do not provide any theory to allow understanding, let alone verification of the claims; (4) they almost always try to personalize the machine and convince the audience that they are a genius and that this came out of some divine inspiration (an aha! Moment) that came out of years of exploration or try to establish a history of being a genius; (5) they usually have built only a couple of prototypes and make wild claims as to performance and applicability before having tested anything, let alone provided results that are verifiable; (6) they often claim patents were applied for or are pending (or were rejected because the Patent Office isn't "open minded"), but when someone else attempts to verify the claim, nothing comes up (as in this case---try googling his "Patent Pending" No.12/504,309.; (7) they never have products available to test, let alone sell, but are always looking for investors; finally, (8) when criticized, they claim you are either an agent, a spy or just don't have the training, experience or vision to understand what their device does. Or more often they claim that they are tapping into an energy field that the current laws of physics cannot explain at this time---eg. Joseph Newman's claimed that his motor's armature had such a long length that when switching current fast enough into the winding, electrons didn't have a enough time to get to the other end of the coil before the current was switched again. He postulated that the electrons were being annihilated in the coils and their energy (E=mc^2) was being liberated----of course, he never provided any verifiable proof of this. In over 20 years, I have never heard of Newman's switched motor technology being put to use. I am open minded on free energy in general, but based on 2 decades of reviewing such claims (some actually interesting---like the N-machine), I have a very low tolerance for free energy claims that are thinly veiled attempts at getting funding. It doesn't take too many guys like this who talk a good story and suck venture capitalist dollars to sour the entire venture capital pool of funders from investing money into well founded novel motor/generator designs. For that reason alone, we should deny a forum for these guys. The sad truth is that it doesn't take much to get something patented. And even patented motor technology doesn't equate to good technology. I worked for a firm with motor patents and indeed the patented motor design and technology was both interesting and motor/generators made from their technology would fit some niches well. Yet in my opinion the motor designer didn't really understand the theory of motor/generators and made baseless comments that his design was better than all the other similar motors for every application. Patents only give a designer the right to sue others who violate the claims made. They do not ensure at all that something built to those claims would be any better than anything else out there. So for me, the smell test isn't passed when a designer focuses on themselves (as a genius savant), uses a catchy name for their device, provides no means to evaluate the efficacy of the device, has only built 1 or 2 prototypes, is attempting to look legitimate with catchy company and product names and is clearly trolling for money without establishing any way for skeptics to verify the claims. Let's not provide forums for these guys, no matter how local or legitimate sounding they are unless they pass the smell test. Sincerely, Myles Twete, P.E. - EE and Control Systems Portland From Doug at chernofflaw.com Mon Jan 25 12:16:44 2010 From: Doug at chernofflaw.com (Doug Wells) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 12:16:44 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] Oeva Members Only. 3DMGS Limited Access to Abstract Message-ID: Carey, Thanks for posting your patent application filing papers on your website, but you've included a non-publication request which means none of the prosecution history will be published in the normal 18 month window. The vast majority of applications publish in 18 months from the earliest claimed filing date, which in your case would have been 18 months from the May '09 provisional. So, we'll be precluded from seeing what the examiner thinks of your invention until a patent issues, if ever. Do you plan to rescind the non-publication request, which is what you'll have to do anyway if you decide to file outside of the US? Second question for you is whether you're taking advantage of the USPTO's green technology pilot program. You're in the date window and have to file the petition before Dec. 8, 2010, but you should certainly consult your patent attorney. I'm not providing any legal advice here since there's some diligence needed to determine whether your invention qualifies, whether it's worth the preparation fees, etc. But I thought I'd at least mention this green tech pilot program that the USPTO is running until Dec. 8 this year. One requirement of this pilot, however, is that the applicant request early publication and rescind any non-publication request. I'd be interested in your comments and those of others. Please note that none of this constitutes legal advice, that you should consult your own attorney, and that I am not your attorney on any matter whatsoever. (This disclaimer applies to any posting made on this or another list-serv.) Best regards, -Doug J. Douglas Wells, Esq. Chernoff, Vilhauer, McClung & Stenzel, LLP 601 SW Second Avenue, Suite 1600 Portland, Oregon 97204-3157 ph: 503-227-5631 (main) ph: 503-278-3326 (direct) fax: 503-228-4373 Email: doug at chernofflaw.com CONFIDENTIALITY STATEMENT This electronic message transmission contains information from Chernoff, Vilhauer, McClung & Stenzel, LLP. It is protected by the attorney/client privilege. If it has been sent to you in error, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this transmission is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify us by telephone (503-227-5631), and then delete this message without copying it. Thank You! ________________________________ From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of Carey Dahlen Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 8:31 AM To: Oeva-list at oeva.org Subject: [Oeva-list] Oeva Members Only. 3DMGS Limited Access to Abstract This information is FREE to Oeva Members! The Jury! In an effort to do my part to help our local Oregon EV economy, create green jobs for Oregonians, quell suspicions and open a clear dialog. For a limited time I will provide the complete abstract of my invention so we can all be on the same page. This information is now located on my website at the bottom of "Invention Notes Description" page, highlighted in green. (Abstract) Please Note; File size 5MB. Drawings Pages 24 - 31. Please keep an open mind, I have the working prototypes! This is exciting Stuff!!!! When was the last time anything really new came along in the Power Generation Field! I look forward to your feedback! Thank you, =D~~~~~ Carey Dahlen, CEO EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC 3D Propulsion, LLC Website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com Business; 541-227-9063 Copyright (c) 2009 - 2010 EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC All Rights Reserved. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100125/2ae2c94d/attachment.html From climer97007 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 25 12:47:29 2010 From: climer97007 at yahoo.com (Gene Climer) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 12:47:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Oeva-list] Hybrid Hummer? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <284418.39661.qm@web32208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hey John, Is this the Hummer EV you mentioned?the other night? http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/04/behold-americas/ Didn't the Hummer you mentioned?go?120 MPH and have a 300 mile range? Thanks, Gene Climer -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100125/a58be176/attachment.html From cgoodwin at gmail.com Mon Jan 25 12:53:56 2010 From: cgoodwin at gmail.com (Chris Goodwin) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 12:53:56 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] New Invention - "Hybrid" Power Generation. In-Reply-To: <4B5CA81A.5010104@darkstarpro.com> References: <201001241829.o0OITt2J085594@broadway.hevanet.com> <4B5CA81A.5010104@darkstarpro.com> Message-ID: <3208232d1001251253v35a56a75w6f87a428c64c77b2@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 12:05, Chris Arnesen wrote: I love reading emails like this because I always wonder how people get > around the laws of physics. You can't get something for nothing! > See also: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Thermodynamics I especially like: The law that entropy always increases holds, I think, the supreme position > among the laws of Nature. If someone points out to you that your pet theory > of the universe is in disagreement with Maxwell's equations ? then so much > the worse for Maxwell's equations. If it is found to be contradicted by > observation ? well, these experimentalists do bungle things sometimes. But > if your theory is found to be against the second law of thermodynamics I can > give you no hope; there is nothing for it but to collapse in deepest > humiliation. > > -- Sir Arthur Stanley Eddington, The Nature of the Physical World (1915), > chapter 4 > -- Chris Goodwin cgoodwin at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100125/2c396b9f/attachment.html From morbiusx1 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 25 14:38:51 2010 From: morbiusx1 at hotmail.com (mark barthemer) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 14:38:51 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] Oeva-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 12 - "Two Generators" confusion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Curt: Re: My "two generators" comment - This was a feeble attempt at humor - the inventor claims that the three rotors can each be motor or generator - probably true. But then he claims [application Par 0020, p.6] that when rotor 1 acts as a motor, rotors 2 & 3 are generators geared to it & powering it - perpetuum mobile! So my mistake 50 years ago was not enough generators per motor... I'm sorry to have taken up even this much of your time, even though I wish it worked! I wish him well, but will pass on the $$$ he's offering to the faithful. Cheers - Mark Parthemer, who will gladly eat crow if it works. > From: oeva-list-request at oeva.org > Subject: Oeva-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 12 > To: oeva-list at oeva.org > Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 11:48:27 -0800 > > Send Oeva-list mailing list submissions to > oeva-list at oeva.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > oeva-list-request at oeva.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > oeva-list-owner at oeva.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Oeva-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. free power (mark barthemer) > 2. Re: New Invention - "Hybrid" Power Generation (Theoldcars at aol.com) > 3. Re: free power (gfifield at onlinenw.com) > 4. Re: free power (cje at hevanet.com) > 5. Oeva Members Only. 3DMGS Limited Access to Abstract (Carey Dahlen) > 6. Re: New Invention - "Hybrid" Power Generation. (steve boser) > 7. Re: Oeva Members Only. 3DMGS Limited Access to Abstract > (cje at hevanet.com) > 8. Re: New Invention - "Hybrid" Power Generation. (Myles Twete) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 19:13:59 -0800 > From: mark barthemer > Subject: [Oeva-list] free power > To: > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > Greetings - When I took an electronics class at OMSI as an 8-year old, I had the brilliant idea that if I connected the shaft of an electric motor to a generator, and fed the generator output back to the motor, it would run forever with no inputs. The teachers were wise enough to let me try it out. Little did I (& they) realize that the breakthrough, which we missed & this guy did not, was to connect TWO generators to the motor. D'oh! > > Confusion to the Enemy! Mark Parthemer > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390707/direct/01/ > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100124/eb8048c5/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 22:49:10 EST > From: Theoldcars at aol.com > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] New Invention - "Hybrid" Power Generation > To: oeva-list at oeva.org > Message-ID: <335a.386c2dbf.388e6eb6 at aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > Hello Chris > > That makes two of us. > > Except maybe we need to look at it this way. You send me money and you get > nothing. So there you go you do get something for nothing. > > I went to the web site it is fairly extensive and yet has any substance. > > Usually you think of this type of thing with PO boxes to send money to. > After going to the Web site I was very disappointed to see the link to the > OEVA. > > Don > > > > > In a message dated 1/24/2010 5:37:39 PM Pacific Standard Time, > oeva-list-request at oeva.org writes: > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 12:05:46 -0800 > From: Chris Arnesen > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] New Invention - "Hybrid" Power Generation. > To: oeva-list at oeva.org > Message-ID: <4B5CA81A.5010104 at darkstarpro.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > I love reading emails like this because I always wonder how people get > around the laws of physics. You can't get something for nothing! > > --Chris > > On 1/24/2010 10:29 AM, cje at hevanet.com wrote: > > It "keeps charging itself after it's not running anymore, like a > > cooling fan stays on after the engine is off"...?? > > > > Curt > > > > > > > >> Hello, > >> My name is Carey Dahlen. > >> I have invented a new way to use electricity to increase the output of > >> > > elec> trical systems as a whole. > > > >> > >> I have invented a New ???Hybrid??? Electric Motor / Generator > >> > > S> ystem. > > > >> My Patent Pending Utility Application, serial number 12/504,309. > >> > > Filed in > > t> he United States Patent and Trademark Office effective July 16, 2009 > > is > > due> for early publication to the National Stage by March 2010. > > > >> ? > >> My System allows for; > >> Electric Vehicles to Re-Charge themselves, when not in propulsion > >> > > mode. > > > >> Increase (existing) EV System output by 50%. My machine installs > >> > > anywhere > > i> n a vehicle between batteries and propulsion motor.? > > > >> My website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com Contains my Accreditations, > >> > > Photo> s, Prototype Video, Notes to Drawings, Future Plans, Design > > Concepts, > > Press> , Links and more information. > > > >> ? > >> This is new and exciting!? ? ? ? Please Forward!? > >> I see things from a technical standpoint "Feed Back" would > >> > > be? Apprecia> ted.? > > > >> > >> Thank You > >> Carey Dahlen, > >> Inventor - CEO > >> EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC > >> 3D Propulsion, LLC? > >> Website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com > >> Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com > >> Business; 541-227-9063 > >> ? > >> Copyright ??? 2009 EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC > >> All Rights Reserved. > >> > > All Rights Reserved. > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100124/c452123e/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 21:59:03 -0800 (PST) > From: gfifield at onlinenw.com > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] free power > To: "mark barthemer" > Cc: oeva-list at oeva.org > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 > > When I was eight years old I made drawing of a water powered car that > would use a paddle wheel to generate the motive power and at the same time > pull water up to the top of the chamber. > Just think how rich I could be if I had only followed though on that idea! > Gene > > > > Greetings - When I took an electronics class at OMSI as an 8-year old, I > > had the brilliant idea that if I connected the shaft of an electric motor > > to a generator, and fed the generator output back to the motor, it would > > run forever with no inputs. The teachers were wise enough to let me try > > it out. Little did I (& they) realize that the breakthrough, which we > > missed & this guy did not, was to connect TWO generators to the motor. > > D'oh! > > > > Confusion to the Enemy! Mark Parthemer > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390707/direct/01/_______________________________________________ > > Oeva-list mailing list > > Oeva-list at oeva.org > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 14:42:14 GMT > From: cje at hevanet.com > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] free power > To: gfifield at onlinenw.com, "mark barthemer" , > oeva-list at oeva.org > Message-ID: <201001251442.o0PEgEF3018995 at broadway.hevanet.com> > > Tough crowd, eh Carey? > > "Two generators hooked to the motor" lost us, I do believe. > > I liked the guy that was on Lars Larson a couple years ago who hooked > up a water tank to his car battery, bubbled hydrogen out of the tank, > and fed the hydrogen into his air cleaner as a range extender. Do you > maybe sell a kit to do that, too? Or is your specialty free electricity? > > Curt > > > When I was eight years old I made drawing of a water powered car that > > would use a paddle wheel to generate the motive power and at the same > time > > pull water up to the top of the chamber. > > Just think how rich I could be if I had only followed though on that > idea! > > Gene > > > > > > Greetings - When I took an electronics class at OMSI as an 8-year > old, I > > > had the brilliant idea that if I connected the shaft of an electric > motor > > > to a generator, and fed the generator output back to the motor, it > would > > > run forever with no inputs. The teachers were wise enough to let > me try > > > it out. Little did I (& they) realize that the breakthrough, which > we > > > missed & this guy did not, was to connect TWO generators to the > motor. > > > D'oh! > > > > > > Confusion to the Enemy! Mark Parthemer > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. > > > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390707/direct/01/________________________ > _______________________ > > > > Oeva-list mailing list > > > Oeva-list at oeva.org > > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Oeva-list mailing list > > Oeva-list at oeva.org > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 08:31:03 -0800 (PST) > From: Carey Dahlen > Subject: [Oeva-list] Oeva Members Only. 3DMGS Limited Access to > Abstract > To: Oeva-list at oeva.org > Message-ID: <163582.84395.qm at web507.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > This information is?FREE to Oeva Members!?? The Jury! > ? > In an effort to do my part to help our local Oregon EV economy, create green jobs for Oregonians, quell suspicions and open a clear dialog. > ? > For a limited time I?will provide?the complete abstract of my invention so we can all be on the same page. > ? > This?information is now located on my website at the bottom of > "Invention Notes Description" page, highlighted in green. (Abstract)? > Please Note; File size 5MB.? Drawings Pages 24 - 31. > ? > Please keep?an open?mind, I have the working prototypes! > This is exciting Stuff!!!!? > When was the last time anything really new came along in the Power Generation Field! > ? > I look forward to your feedback! > Thank you, =D~~~~~ > > Carey Dahlen, CEO > EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC > 3D Propulsion, LLC? > Website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com > Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com > Business; 541-227-9063 > ? > Copyright ??2009 - 2010?EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC > All Rights Reserved. > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100125/645ccca8/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 11:10:46 -0800 > From: steve boser > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] New Invention - "Hybrid" Power Generation. > To: carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com > Cc: Oeva-list at oeva.org > Message-ID: > <62256f591001251110g2579adc4h79d48d87b81f3e93 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi Carey > > With number of people convinced stuff like HHO generators work, you > should have little problem getting funding, maybe even a grant. > You however should do some googling on Carl Tilley and don't go down > that road, and whatever you do, don't put your motor in a DeLorean, > I'd suggest a Geo Metro > > Best of luck with your device, I think we all would like it to work. > > Steve Boser > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 19:20:53 GMT > From: cje at hevanet.com > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Oeva Members Only. 3DMGS Limited Access to > Abstract > To: carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com, Oeva-list at oeva.org > Message-ID: <201001251920.o0PJKrT0034094 at broadway.hevanet.com> > > You got to understand here -- you're going to run into skeptics. > > It originally looked like you've invented a perpetual motion machine. > I'm not sure, after poring over your abstract, that that's what you're > getting at -- but I'm dipped if I can figure out what it's supposed to > do. Charge when it's not running? That wasn't in the abstract. So you > run more than one rotor -- what's that get you? Electric motors are a > mature technology, and I'm not sure what yours is supposed to do that's > different. > > A professional technical writer might help you out some, too. > > Curt > > > > > This information is FREE to Oeva Members! The Jury! > > > > In an effort to do my part to help our local Oregon EV economy, create > gree> n jobs for Oregonians, quell suspicions and open a clear dialog. > > > > For a limited time I will provide the complete abstract of my > invention> so we can all be on the same page. > > > > This information is now located on my website at the bottom of > > "Invention Notes Description" page, highlighted in green. (Abstract) > > Please Note; File size 5MB. Drawings Pages 24 - 31. > > > > Please keep an open mind, I have the working prototypes! > > This is exciting Stuff!!!! > > When was the last time anything really new came along in the Power > Generati> on Field! > > > > I look forward to your feedback! > > Thank you, =D~~~~~ > > > > Carey Dahlen, CEO > > EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC > > 3D Propulsion, LLC > > Website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com > > Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com > > Business; 541-227-9063 > > > > Copyright ? 2009 - 2010 EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC > > All Rights Reserved. > All Rights Reserved. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 11:47:47 -0800 > From: "Myles Twete" > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] New Invention - "Hybrid" Power Generation. > To: > Message-ID: <005601ca9df7$4e8df6d0$eba9e470$@net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > >I love reading emails like this because I always wonder how people get > around the laws of physics. You can't get something for nothing! > > Yeah, but we all have better things to do with our lives than to listen to > Free Energy drivel on this and other practical propulsion lists. > When you read everything on his website, you realize that all he has > discovered is that you can embed a separately wound generator into the same > housing (and plane) as the drive motor. So what? And so ignoring the > claims of self-sufficiency and generating more power than was put in, he > repeatedly mentions the more realistic expectation that this 3d motor > generates power "when not in propulsion mode". Not mentioned is that the > motor/generator will quickly spin down as power is drawn from it. Any > permanent magnet DC motor will do this. It's not clear to me that the > 'inventor' of this gizmo really understands electromagnetic theory or > realizes the dualities between magnetic and electric interactions. It's not > clear to me that he's ever used motor/generator equations such as these: Vm > = Kb*wm + Rm*Im ; Tm=Kt*Im - Tf ; Kb=Kt. > > I hear lots of ambition and read unsubstantiated claims on his website, but > basically, this is someone trolling for investment money. His "Star of > David" motor invention description uses the classic hypnotic free-energy > inventor mantra---I've seen this for over 25 years now, from Joseph Newman's > free energy motors (including his 300+ page tome on its theory of operations > and how his motor converted electron mass to energy directly with E=mc^2) to > Bruce DePalma's "N-Machine" (which was nothing more than a permanent magnet > homopolar motor/generator---highly efficient (94%+ possible), but claims of > 300pct efficiency were never publicly demonstrated). > > Common to all of these invention claims are: > (1) they claim something new and give a catchy new name to it (N-machine, > Star Of David motor, etc.); > (2) they give you just enough description or hyperbole to capture your > imagination, but often smartly not enough to set off your smell alarm; > (3) they make free-energy claims or use ambiguous claims that sound like > free-energy claims, but then do not provide any theory to allow > understanding, let alone verification of the claims; > (4) they almost always try to personalize the machine and convince the > audience that they are a genius and that this came out of some divine > inspiration (an aha! Moment) that came out of years of exploration or try to > establish a history of being a genius; > (5) they usually have built only a couple of prototypes and make wild claims > as to performance and applicability before having tested anything, let alone > provided results that are verifiable; > (6) they often claim patents were applied for or are pending (or were > rejected because the Patent Office isn't "open minded"), but when someone > else attempts to verify the claim, nothing comes up (as in this case---try > googling his "Patent Pending" No.12/504,309.; > (7) they never have products available to test, let alone sell, but are > always looking for investors; finally, > (8) when criticized, they claim you are either an agent, a spy or just don't > have the training, experience or vision to understand what their device > does. Or more often they claim that they are tapping into an energy field > that the current laws of physics cannot explain at this time---eg. Joseph > Newman's claimed that his motor's armature had such a long length that when > switching current fast enough into the winding, electrons didn't have a > enough time to get to the other end of the coil before the current was > switched again. He postulated that the electrons were being annihilated in > the coils and their energy (E=mc^2) was being liberated----of course, he > never provided any verifiable proof of this. In over 20 years, I have never > heard of Newman's switched motor technology being put to use. > > I am open minded on free energy in general, but based on 2 decades of > reviewing such claims (some actually interesting---like the N-machine), I > have a very low tolerance for free energy claims that are thinly veiled > attempts at getting funding. It doesn't take too many guys like this who > talk a good story and suck venture capitalist dollars to sour the entire > venture capital pool of funders from investing money into well founded novel > motor/generator designs. For that reason alone, we should deny a forum for > these guys. The sad truth is that it doesn't take much to get something > patented. And even patented motor technology doesn't equate to good > technology. I worked for a firm with motor patents and indeed the patented > motor design and technology was both interesting and motor/generators made > from their technology would fit some niches well. Yet in my opinion the > motor designer didn't really understand the theory of motor/generators and > made baseless comments that his design was better than all the other similar > motors for every application. Patents only give a designer the right to sue > others who violate the claims made. They do not ensure at all that > something built to those claims would be any better than anything else out > there. > > So for me, the smell test isn't passed when a designer focuses on themselves > (as a genius savant), uses a catchy name for their device, provides no means > to evaluate the efficacy of the device, has only built 1 or 2 prototypes, is > attempting to look legitimate with catchy company and product names and is > clearly trolling for money without establishing any way for skeptics to > verify the claims. Let's not provide forums for these guys, no matter how > local or legitimate sounding they are unless they pass the smell test. > > Sincerely, > > Myles Twete, P.E. - EE and Control Systems > Portland > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Oeva-list mailing list > Oeva-list at oeva.org > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > > > End of Oeva-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 12 > ***************************************** _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390710/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100125/380fad44/attachment-0001.html From carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com Mon Jan 25 15:12:10 2010 From: carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com (Carey Dahlen) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 15:12:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Oeva-list] Fw: RE: Oeva Members Only. 3DMGS Limited Access to Abstract Message-ID: <717398.58714.qm@web505.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Carey Dahlen, CEO EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC 3D Propulsion, LLC? Website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com Business; 541-227-9063 ? Copyright ??2009 EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC All Rights Reserved. --- On Mon, 1/25/10, Carey Dahlen wrote: From: Carey Dahlen Subject: RE: [Oeva-list] Oeva Members Only. 3DMGS Limited Access to Abstract To: "Doug Wells" Date: Monday, January 25, 2010, 1:06 PM Doug, Thank you for taking the time to write this note.? My abstract is my original work, at the time of filing I?requested non publication. (I should remove that page from my site).? I have paid the fees and have my receipt my attorney has filed the request for early publication with the USPTO, due for publication March 2010.? I am currently working on my petition statement per item #7?to be included in the pilot program for green technologies. I should be able to complete the filing by the end of this week. ? This can be a tough crowd! Thank you, Carey Dahlen, CEO EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC 3D Propulsion, LLC? Website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com Business; 541-227-9063 ? Copyright ??2009 EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC All Rights Reserved. --- On Mon, 1/25/10, Doug Wells wrote: From: Doug Wells Subject: RE: [Oeva-list] Oeva Members Only. 3DMGS Limited Access to Abstract To: carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com, Oeva-list at oeva.org Date: Monday, January 25, 2010, 12:16 PM ? Carey, ? Thanks for posting your patent application filing papers on your? website, but you?ve included a non-publication request which means none of the prosecution history will be published in the normal 18 month window. The vast majority of applications publish in 18 months from the earliest claimed filing date, which in your case would have been 18 months from the May ?09 provisional.? So, we?ll be precluded from seeing what the examiner thinks of your invention until a patent issues, if ever.? Do you plan to rescind the non-publication request, which is what you?ll have to do anyway if you decide to file outside of the US ? ? Second question for you is whether you?re taking advantage of the USPTO?s green technology pilot prog ram .? You?re in the date window and have to file the petition before Dec. 8, 2010, but you should certainly consult your patent attorney.? I?m not providing any legal advice here since there?s some diligence needed to determine whether your invention qualifies, whether it?s worth the preparation fees, etc.? But I thought I?d at least mention this green tech pilot prog ram that the USPTO is running until Dec. 8 this year.? One requirement of this pilot, however, is that the applicant request early publication and rescind any non-publication request. ? I?d be interested in your comments and those of others. ? Please note that none of this constitutes legal advice, that you should consult your own attorney, and that I am not your attorney on any matter whatsoever. ?(This disclaimer applies to any posting made on this or another list-serv.) ? Best regards, -Doug ? J. Douglas Wells, Esq. Chernoff, Vilhauer, McClung & Stenzel, LLP 601 SW Second Avenue, Suite 1600 Portland, Oregon 97204-3157 ph: 503-227-5631 (main) ph: 503-278-3326 (direct) fax: 503-228-4373 Email: doug at chernofflaw.com ? CONFIDENTIALITY STATEMENT This electronic message transmission contains information from Chernoff, Vilhauer, McClung & Stenzel, LLP. It is protected by the attorney/client privilege. If it has been sent to you in error, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this transmission is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify us by telephone (503-227-5631), and then delete this message without copying it. Thank You! ? ?? ? From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of Carey Dahlen Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 8:31 AM To: Oeva-list at oeva.org Subject: [Oeva-list] Oeva Members Only. 3DMGS Limited Access to Abstract ? This information is?FREE to Oeva Members!?? The Jury! ? In an effort to do my part to help our local Oregon EV economy, create green jobs for Oregonians, quell suspicions and open a clear dialog. ? For a limited time I?will provide?the complete abstract of my invention so we can all be on the same page. ? This?information is now located on my website at the bottom of "Invention Notes Description" page, highlighted in green. (Abstract)? Please Note; File size 5MB.? Drawings Pages 24 - 31. ? Please keep?an open?mind, I have the working prototypes! This is exciting Stuff!!!!? When was the last time anything really new came along in the Power Generation Field! ? I look forward to your feedback! Thank you, =D~~~~~ Carey Dahlen, CEO EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC 3D Propulsion, LLC? Website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com Business; 541-227-9063 ? Copyright ??2009 - 2010?EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC All Rights Reserved. ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100125/61538a32/attachment.html From Doug at chernofflaw.com Mon Jan 25 15:31:58 2010 From: Doug at chernofflaw.com (Doug Wells) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 15:31:58 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] Fw: RE: Oeva Members Only. 3DMGS Limited Access toAbstract Message-ID: Thanks, Carey, for posting your response to the group. Incidentally, you or anyone can view a patent application and all official records once the application is published by going to the USPTO's public PAIR link (http://portal.uspto.gov/external/portal/pair ) and looking up the application by its serial number. Alternatively, if the serial number isn't handy, published applications may be searched at the USPTO's link http://appft.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/search-bool.html . Best regards, -Doug J. Douglas Wells, Esq. Chernoff, Vilhauer, McClung & Stenzel, LLP 601 SW Second Avenue, Suite 1600 Portland, Oregon 97204-3157 ph: 503-227-5631 (main) ph: 503-278-3326 (direct) fax: 503-228-4373 Email: doug at chernofflaw.com CONFIDENTIALITY STATEMENT This electronic message transmission contains information from Chernoff, Vilhauer, McClung & Stenzel, LLP. It is protected by the attorney/client privilege. If it has been sent to you in error, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this transmission is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify us by telephone (503-227-5631), and then delete this message without copying it. Thank You! ________________________________ From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of Carey Dahlen Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 3:12 PM To: Oeva-list at oeva.org Subject: [Oeva-list] Fw: RE: Oeva Members Only. 3DMGS Limited Access toAbstract Carey Dahlen, CEO EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC 3D Propulsion, LLC Website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com Business; 541-227-9063 Copyright (c) 2009 EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC All Rights Reserved. --- On Mon, 1/25/10, Carey Dahlen wrote: From: Carey Dahlen Subject: RE: [Oeva-list] Oeva Members Only. 3DMGS Limited Access to Abstract To: "Doug Wells" Date: Monday, January 25, 2010, 1:06 PM Doug, Thank you for taking the time to write this note. My abstract is my original work, at the time of filing I requested non publication. (I should remove that page from my site). I have paid the fees and have my receipt my attorney has filed the request for early publication with the USPTO, due for publication March 2010. I am currently working on my petition statement per item #7 to be included in the pilot program for green technologies. I should be able to complete the filing by the end of this week. This can be a tough crowd! Thank you, Carey Dahlen, CEO EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC 3D Propulsion, LLC Website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com Business; 541-227-9063 Copyright (c) 2009 EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC All Rights Reserved. --- On Mon, 1/25/10, Doug Wells wrote: From: Doug Wells Subject: RE: [Oeva-list] Oeva Members Only. 3DMGS Limited Access to Abstract To: carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com, Oeva-list at oeva.org Date: Monday, January 25, 2010, 12:16 PM Carey, Thanks for posting your patent application filing papers on your website, but you've included a non-publication request which means none of the prosecution history will be published in the normal 18 month window. The vast majority of applications publish in 18 months from the earliest claimed filing date, which in your case would have been 18 months from the May '09 provisional. So, we'll be precluded from seeing what the examiner thinks of your invention until a patent issues, if ever. Do you plan to rescind the non-publication request, which is what you'll have to do anyway if you decide to file outside of the US ? Second question for you is whether you're taking advantage of the USPTO's green technology pilot prog ram . You're in the date window and have to file the petition before Dec. 8, 2010, but you should certainly consult your patent attorney. I'm not providing any legal advice here since there's some diligence needed to determine whether your invention qualifies, whether it's worth the preparation fees, etc. But I thought I'd at least mention this green tech pilot prog ram that the USPTO is running until Dec. 8 this year. One requirement of this pilot, however, is that the applicant request early publication and rescind any non-publication request. I'd be interested in your comments and those of others. Please note that none of this constitutes legal advice, that you should consult your own attorney, and that I am not your attorney on any matter whatsoever. (This disclaimer applies to any posting made on this or another list-serv.) Best regards, -Doug J. Douglas Wells, Esq. Chernoff, Vilhauer, McClung & Stenzel, LLP 601 SW Second Avenue, Suite 1600 Portland, Oregon 97204-3157 ph: 503-227-5631 (main) ph: 503-278-3326 (direct) fax: 503-228-4373 Email: doug at chernofflaw.com CONFIDENTIALITY STATEMENT This electronic message transmission contains information from Chernoff, Vilhauer, McClung & Stenzel, LLP. It is protected by the attorney/client privilege. If it has been sent to you in error, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this transmission is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify us by telephone (503-227-5631), and then delete this message without copying it. Thank You! ________________________________ From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of Carey Dahlen Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 8:31 AM To: Oeva-list at oeva.org Subject: [Oeva-list] Oeva Members Only. 3DMGS Limited Access to Abstract This information is FREE to Oeva Members! The Jury! In an effort to do my part to help our local Oregon EV economy, create green jobs for Oregonians, quell suspicions and open a clear dialog. For a limited time I will provide the complete abstract of my invention so we can all be on the same page. This information is now located on my website at the bottom of "Invention Notes Description" page, highlighted in green. (Abstract) Please Note; File size 5MB. Drawings Pages 24 - 31. Please keep an open mind, I have the working prototypes! This is exciting Stuff!!!! When was the last time anything really new came along in the Power Generation Field! I look forward to your feedback! Thank you, =D~~~~~ Carey Dahlen, CEO EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC 3D Propulsion, LLC Website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com Business; 541-227-9063 Copyright (c) 2009 - 2010 EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC All Rights Reserved. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100125/1b5a8b8c/attachment-0001.html From Theoldcars at aol.com Mon Jan 25 18:57:55 2010 From: Theoldcars at aol.com (Theoldcars at aol.com) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 21:57:55 EST Subject: [Oeva-list] New Invention - "Hybrid" Power Generation. Message-ID: <277c7.50931045.388fb433@aol.com> Myles Great post I totally agree with you. Nothing is going to be gained here and it is a total waste of our time. Anyone have an opinion about the OEVA being listed here? _http://www.evergreenelectricvehicles.com/contact_us_-_resources_ (http://www.evergreenelectricvehicles.com/contact_us_-_resources) Don In a message dated 1/25/2010 2:39:15 PM Pacific Standard Time, oeva-list-request at oeva.org writes: > Message: 8 > Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 11:47:47 -0800 > From: "Myles Twete" > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] New Invention - "Hybrid" Power Generation. > To: > Message-ID: <005601ca9df7$4e8df6d0$eba9e470$@net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > >I love reading emails like this because I always wonder how people get > around the laws of physics. You can't get something for nothing! > > Yeah, but we all have better things to do with our lives than to listen to > Free Energy drivel on this and other practical propulsion lists. > When you read everything on his website, you realize that all he has > discovered is that you can embed a separately wound generator into the same > housing (and plane) as the drive motor. So what? And so ignoring the > claims of self-sufficiency and generating more power than was put in, he > repeatedly mentions the more realistic expectation that this 3d motor > generates power "when not in propulsion mode". Not mentioned is that the > motor/generator will quickly spin down as power is drawn from it. Any > permanent magnet DC motor will do this. It's not clear to me that the > 'inventor' of this gizmo really understands electromagnetic theory or > realizes the dualities between magnetic and electric interactions. It's not > clear to me that he's ever used motor/generator equations such as these: Vm > = Kb*wm + Rm*Im ; Tm=Kt*Im - Tf ; Kb=Kt. > > I hear lots of ambition and read unsubstantiated claims on his website, but > basically, this is someone trolling for investment money. His "Star of > David" motor invention description uses the classic hypnotic free-energy > inventor mantra---I've seen this for over 25 years now, from Joseph Newman's > free energy motors (including his 300+ page tome on its theory of operations > and how his motor converted electron mass to energy directly with E=mc^2) to > Bruce DePalma's "N-Machine" (which was nothing more than a permanent magnet > homopolar motor/generator---highly efficient (94%+ possible), but claims of > 300pct efficiency were never publicly demonstrated). > > Common to all of these invention claims are: > (1) they claim something new and give a catchy new name to it (N-machine, > Star Of David motor, etc.); > (2) they give you just enough description or hyperbole to capture your > imagination, but often smartly not enough to set off your smell alarm; > (3) they make free-energy claims or use ambiguous claims that sound like > free-energy claims, but then do not provide any theory to allow > understanding, let alone verification of the claims; > (4) they almost always try to personalize the machine and convince the > audience that they are a genius and that this came out of some divine > inspiration (an aha! Moment) that came out of years of exploration or try to > establish a history of being a genius; > (5) they usually have built only a couple of prototypes and make wild claims > as to performance and applicability before having tested anything, let alone > provided results that are verifiable; > (6) they often claim patents were applied for or are pending (or were > rejected because the Patent Office isn't "open minded"), but when someone > else attempts to verify the claim, nothing comes up (as in this case---try > googling his "Patent Pending" No.12/504,309.; > (7) they never have products available to test, let alone sell, but are > always looking for investors; finally, > (8) when criticized, they claim you are either an agent, a spy or just don't > have the training, experience or vision to understand what their device > does. Or more often they claim that they are tapping into an energy field > that the current laws of physics cannot explain at this time---eg. Joseph > Newman's claimed that his motor's armature had such a long length that when > switching current fast enough into the winding, electrons didn't have a > enough time to get to the other end of the coil before the current was > switched again. He postulated that the electrons were being annihilated in > the coils and their energy (E=mc^2) was being liberated----of course, he > never provided any verifiable proof of this. In over 20 years, I have nev er > heard of Newman's switched motor technology being put to use. > > I am open minded on free energy in general, but based on 2 decades of > reviewing such claims (some actually interesting---like the N-machine), I > have a very low tolerance for free energy claims that are thinly veiled > attempts at getting funding. It doesn't take too many guys like this who > talk a good story and suck venture capitalist dollars to sour the entire > venture capital pool of funders from investing money into well founded novel > motor/generator designs. For that reason alone, we should deny a forum for > these guys. The sad truth is that it doesn't take much to get something > patented. And even patented motor technology doesn't equate to good > technology. I worked for a firm with motor patents and indeed the patented > motor design and technology was both interesting and motor/generators made > from their technology would fit some niches well. Yet in my opinion the > motor designer didn't really understand the theory of motor/generators and > made baseless comments that his design was better than all the other similar > motors for every application. Patents only give a designer the right to sue > others who violate the claims made. They do not ensure at all that > something built to those claims would be any better than anything else out > there. > > So for me, the smell test isn't passed when a designer focuses on themselves > (as a genius savant), uses a catchy name for their device, provides no means > to evaluate the efficacy of the device, has only built 1 or 2 prototypes, is > attempting to look legitimate with catchy company and product names and is > clearly trolling for money without establishing any way for skeptics to > verify the claims. Let's not provide forums for these guys, no matter how > local or legitimate sounding they are unless they pass the smell test. > > Sincerely, > > Myles Twete, P.E. - EE and Control Systems > Portland -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100125/c5f918e2/attachment.html From garry at europa.com Mon Jan 25 20:30:00 2010 From: garry at europa.com (garry painter) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 20:30:00 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] New Invention - "Hybrid" Power Generation. In-Reply-To: <277c7.50931045.388fb433@aol.com> References: <277c7.50931045.388fb433@aol.com> Message-ID: I cannot believe you two! Don't you see the wonderful logic of it all? If two generators can run off one motor, then why not three, or 4, or hell, 300 million! I'm going out tomorrow and buy a 1 hp electric motor and start adding electric generators until I get to 300,000,000. That way, I can power the whole US of A with just my one little motor. ...... Makes sense doesn't it? ...... ps. Until the first person makes the first yield of money to the entity in question, I do not think they can be charged with fraud. hmmm.... I've 85 cents. Maybe I'll be the guinea pig, pay the big change, and call up the Oregon D.A. regarding a fraudulent scam going on. Maybe I could make the front page! pps. I am not a lawyer, so I may be wrong. But hey, at least I'm only out 85 cents. :) ppps. Miles, did you know that if you turn your steering wheel to the left, and lower your motor, you might generate some free energy during the winter? pppps. It might be time to move on to a moderated forum to avoid spam scams, and people with post script OCD. On Jan 25, 2010, at 6:57 PM, Theoldcars at aol.com wrote: > Myles > > Great post I totally agree with you. Nothing is going to be gained > here and it is a total waste of our time. > > Anyone have an opinion about the OEVA being listed here? > > http://www.evergreenelectricvehicles.com/contact_us_-_resources > > Don > > > > In a message dated 1/25/2010 2:39:15 PM Pacific Standard Time, oeva- > list-request at oeva.org writes: > > Message: 8 > > Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 11:47:47 -0800 > > From: "Myles Twete" > > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] New Invention - "Hybrid" Power Generation. > > To: > > Message-ID: <005601ca9df7$4e8df6d0$eba9e470$@net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > >I love reading emails like this because I always wonder how > people get > > around the laws of physics. You can't get something for nothing! > > > > Yeah, but we all have better things to do with our lives than to > listen to > > Free Energy drivel on this and other practical propulsion lists. > > When you read everything on his website, you realize that all he has > > discovered is that you can embed a separately wound generator > into the same > > housing (and plane) as the drive motor. So what? And so > ignoring the > > claims of self-sufficiency and generating more power than was put > in, he > > repeatedly mentions the more realistic expectation that this 3d > motor > > generates power "when not in propulsion mode". Not mentioned is > that the > > motor/generator will quickly spin down as power is drawn from > it. Any > > permanent magnet DC motor will do this. It's not clear to me > that the > > 'inventor' of this gizmo really understands electromagnetic > theory or > > realizes the dualities between magnetic and electric > interactions. It's not > > clear to me that he's ever used motor/generator equations such as > these: Vm > > = Kb*wm + Rm*Im ; Tm=Kt*Im - Tf ; Kb=Kt. > > > > I hear lots of ambition and read unsubstantiated claims on his > website, but > > basically, this is someone trolling for investment money. His > "Star of > > David" motor invention description uses the classic hypnotic free- > energy > > inventor mantra---I've seen this for over 25 years now, from > Joseph Newman's > > free energy motors (including his 300+ page tome on its theory of > operations > > and how his motor converted electron mass to energy directly with > E=mc^2) to > > Bruce DePalma's "N-Machine" (which was nothing more than a > permanent magnet > > homopolar motor/generator---highly efficient (94%+ possible), but > claims of > > 300pct efficiency were never publicly demonstrated) > > > > Common to all of these invention claims are: > > (1) they claim something new and give a catchy new name to it (N- > machine, > > Star Of David motor, etc.); > > (2) they give you just enough description or hyperbole to capture > your > > imagination, but often smartly not enough to set off your smell > alarm; > > (3) they make free-energy claims or use ambiguous claims that > sound like > > free-energy claims, but then do not provide any theory to allow > > understanding, let alone verification of the claims; > > (4) they almost always try to personalize the machine and > convince the > > audience that they are a genius and that this came out of some > divine > > inspiration (an aha! Moment) that came out of years of > exploration or try to > > establish a history of being a genius; > > (5) they usually have built only a couple of prototypes and make > wild claims > > as to performance and applicability before having tested > anything, let alone > > provided results that are verifiable; > > (6) they often claim patents were applied for or are pending (or > were > > rejected because the Patent Office isn't "open minded"), but when > someone > > else attempts to verify the claim, nothing comes up (as in this > case---try > > googling his "Patent Pending" No.12/504,309.; > > (7) they never have products available to test, let alone sell, > but are > > always looking for investors; finally, > > (8) when criticized, they claim you are either an agent, a spy or > just don't > > have the training, experience or vision to understand what their > device > > does. Or more often they claim that they are tapping into an > energy field > > that the current laws of physics cannot explain at this time--- > eg. Joseph > > Newman's claimed that his motor's armature had such a long length > that when > > switching current fast enough into the winding, electrons didn't > have a > > enough time to get to the other end of the coil before the > current was > > switched again. He postulated that the electrons were being > annihilated in > > the coils and their energy (E=mc^2) was being liberated----of > course, he > > never provided any verifiable proof of this. In over 20 years, I > have never > > heard of Newman's switched motor technology being put to use. > > > > I am open minded on free energy in general, but based on 2 > decades of > > reviewing such claims (some actually interesting---like the N- > machine), I > > have a very low tolerance for free energy claims that are thinly > veiled > > attempts at getting funding. It doesn't take too many guys like > this who > > talk a good story and suck venture capitalist dollars to sour the > entire > > venture capital pool of funders from investing money into well > founded novel > > motor/generator designs. For that reason alone, we should deny a > forum for > > these guys. The sad truth is that it doesn't take much to get > something > > patented. And even patented motor technology doesn't equate to good > > technology. I worked for a firm with motor patents and indeed > the patented > > motor design and technology was both interesting and motor/ > generators made > > from their technology would fit some niches well. Yet in my > opinion the > > motor designer didn't really understand the theory of motor/ > generators and > > made baseless comments that his design was better than all the > other similar > > motors for every application. Patents only give a designer the > right to sue > > others who violate the claims made. They do not ensure at all that > > something built to those claims would be any better than anything > else out > > there. > > > > So for me, the smell test isn't passed when a designer focuses on > themselves > > (as a genius savant), uses a catchy name for their device, > provides no means > > to evaluate the efficacy of the device, has only built 1 or 2 > prototypes, is > > attempting to look legitimate with catchy company and product > names and is > > clearly trolling for money without establishing any way for > skeptics to > > verify the claims. Let's not provide forums for these guys, no > matter how > > local or legitimate sounding they are unless they pass the smell > test. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Myles Twete, P.E. - EE and Control Systems > > Portland > _______________________________________________ > Oeva-list mailing list > Oeva-list at oeva.org > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100125/80f28dec/attachment-0001.html From carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com Tue Jan 26 07:27:54 2010 From: carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com (Carey Dahlen) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 07:27:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Oeva-list] Smell Test? Message-ID: <644207.83158.qm@web506.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Smell Test? I have never been attacked like this in all my life! I had to ask my self what in the hell is going on here. It has become quite clear I am not communicating effectively; this whole thing has hit a nerve, spiraling out of control. ? I would never insult the intelligence of this worthy association. I see a group of people who are trying to influence positive change in the electric vehicle industry in our region. I am also. I have only been a member of this group for a short time. I?ve read your messages, Like me, I see you are all problem solvers! ? Damage Control! In order to stop the bleeding and put an end to all this nonsense, let me make the following crystal clear! ? My design has absolutely nothing to do with the smoke and mirrors of so called ?Free Energy? or free energy machines period! I will not be associated with scams or be labeled as a charlatan! I am a hard working honest Christian man! I have never even heard of Joseph Newman or Bruce DePalma. Nor, do I care what they do! or claim! it must be preposterous. ? I should stop right here and let the dust settle! But the amount of character assignation was way over the top. A man is not a man if he does not defend himself. To imply my work is not legitimate and that I am some sort of bottom feeder seeking to steal away funding is just plain wrong! I am a legitimate researcher and will continue to do legitimate research! If anything I have been na?ve. ? My simple basic 3D design is based on mature electric motor and electric generator science working with-in the laws of physics and conservation. It takes power to make power! ? My design is 100% about increasing output efficiency with a new frame or platform, which will allow for more options in the field of Power Generation! What is wrong with a hybrid motor generator? ? I have no disclaimer. I will back up my claims. My story is my description of how I came up with the hybrid concept. The ?Star of David? configuration accurately lays out component locations, giving designers and builders an easy overview of the expandability of the machines design. ? To date I have followed all the rules. After conceiving my hybrid design, I began to search the web and the USPTO?s data base to see if anyone had already patented this concept. I paid my patent attorney for a professional patent searcher. The professional search came up with about a dozen similar designs but, did not exclude me from moving forward. I then built my first prototype and used the data to draft my patent application. I have paid all the required fees and my patent documents will be published by the USPTO March 2010. ? ? I will have my petition filed this week with the USPTO to take advantage of the pilot program for green technologies. I am actively seeking funding to take my design to the next level, full size working models that I can use to produce the needed data to substantiate or verify my claims. That?s how the system works! ? I realize for the most part I did not communicate properly in the beginning. Let the record show I was the one to introduce this new concept and shared my abstract with this group at no cost or obligation because I am excited about everything I have accomplished in this field! ? I am Proud of all my accomplishments! ? Sincerely, ? Carey Dahlen, Master Electrician - General Supervising Electrician #5522S for the Great State of Oregon. ? Carey Dahlen, CEO EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC 3D Propulsion, LLC? Website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com Business; 541-227-9063 ? Copyright ??2009 EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC All Rights Reserved. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100126/be5eac30/attachment.html From carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com Tue Jan 26 08:10:05 2010 From: carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com (Carey Dahlen) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 08:10:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Oeva-list] Smell Test? In-Reply-To: <62256f591001260739l3651a26fxfb7dcbd4eb865639@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <815011.51987.qm@web504.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I have removed the link Carey Dahlen, CEO EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC 3D Propulsion, LLC? Website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com Business; 541-227-9063 ? Copyright ??2009 EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC All Rights Reserved. --- On Tue, 1/26/10, steve boser wrote: From: steve boser Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Smell Test? To: carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com Date: Tuesday, January 26, 2010, 7:39 AM I for one belief you belief in your design, I am not convinced and I suppose my only sticking point I have with this is I see the OEVA has a link on your website, I don't know if you asked anyone if it was ok, but I would be concerned that the OEVA is adding a certain value to your project when I haven't heard anyone voice anything positive about your design. That would be my only real concern Steve Boser On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 7:27 AM, Carey Dahlen wrote: Smell Test? I have never been attacked like this in all my life! I had to ask my self what in the hell is going on here. It has become quite clear I am not communicating effectively; this whole thing has hit a nerve, spiraling out of control. ? I would never insult the intelligence of this worthy association. I see a group of people who are trying to influence positive change in the electric vehicle industry in our region. I am also. I have only been a member of this group for a short time. I?ve read your messages, Like me, I see you are all problem solvers! ? Damage Control! In order to stop the bleeding and put an end to all this nonsense, let me make the following crystal clear! ? My design has absolutely nothing to do with the smoke and mirrors of so called ?Free Energy? or free energy machines period! I will not be associated with scams or be labeled as a charlatan! I am a hard working honest Christian man! I have never even heard of Joseph Newman or Bruce DePalma. Nor, do I care what they do! or claim! it must be preposterous. ? I should stop right here and let the dust settle! But the amount of character assignation was way over the top. A man is not a man if he does not defend himself. To imply my work is not legitimate and that I am some sort of bottom feeder seeking to steal away funding is just plain wrong! I am a legitimate researcher and will continue to do legitimate research! If anything I have been na?ve. ? My simple basic 3D design is based on mature electric motor and electric generator science working with-in the laws of physics and conservation. It takes power to make power! ? My design is 100% about increasing output efficiency with a new frame or platform, which will allow for more options in the field of Power Generation! What is wrong with a hybrid motor generator? ? I have no disclaimer. I will back up my claims. My story is my description of how I came up with the hybrid concept. The ?Star of David? configuration accurately lays out component locations, giving designers and builders an easy overview of the expandability of the machines design. ? To date I have followed all the rules. After conceiving my hybrid design, I began to search the web and the USPTO?s data base to see if anyone had already patented this concept. I paid my patent attorney for a professional patent searcher. The professional search came up with about a dozen similar designs but, did not exclude me from moving forward. I then built my first prototype and used the data to draft my patent application. I have paid all the required fees and my patent documents will be published by the USPTO March 2010. ? ? I will have my petition filed this week with the USPTO to take advantage of the pilot program for green technologies. I am actively seeking funding to take my design to the next level, full size working models that I can use to produce the needed data to substantiate or verify my claims. That?s how the system works! ? I realize for the most part I did not communicate properly in the beginning. Let the record show I was the one to introduce this new concept and shared my abstract with this group at no cost or obligation because I am excited about everything I have accomplished in this field! ? I am Proud of all my accomplishments! ? Sincerely, ? Carey Dahlen, Master Electrician - General Supervising Electrician #5522S for the Great State of Oregon. ? Carey Dahlen, CEO EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC 3D Propulsion, LLC? Website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com Business; 541-227-9063 ? Copyright ??2009 EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC All Rights Reserved. _______________________________________________ Oeva-list mailing list Oeva-list at oeva.org http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100126/1266839a/attachment-0001.html From rbstewert at gmail.com Tue Jan 26 08:19:09 2010 From: rbstewert at gmail.com (Rob Stewert) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 08:19:09 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] Smell Test? In-Reply-To: <644207.83158.qm@web506.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <644207.83158.qm@web506.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <730A9ED4-36A9-4CFD-9645-F29EDF06540E@gmail.com> Methinks thou doth protest too much. Bob Stewert Portland, OR rbstewert at gmail.com On Jan 26, 2010, at 7:27 AM, Carey Dahlen wrote: > Smell Test? > I have never been attacked like this in all my life! I had to ask my > self what in the hell is going on here. It has become quite clear I > am not communicating effectively; this whole thing has hit a nerve, > spiraling out of control. > > I would never insult the intelligence of this worthy association. > I see a group of people who are trying to influence positive change > in the electric vehicle industry in our region. I am also. I have > only been a member of this group for a short time. I?ve read your > messages, Like me, I see you are all problem solvers! > > Damage Control! In order to stop the bleeding and put an end to all > this nonsense, let me make the following crystal clear! > > My design has absolutely nothing to do with the smoke and mirrors of > so called ?Free Energy? or free energy machines period! I will not > be associated with scams or be labeled as a charlatan! I am a hard > working honest Christian man! > I have never even heard of Joseph Newman or Bruce DePalma. Nor, do I > care what they do! or claim! it must be preposterous. > > I should stop right here and let the dust settle! > But the amount of character assignation was way over the top. A man > is not a man if he does not defend himself. To imply my work is not > legitimate and that I am some sort of bottom feeder seeking to steal > away funding is just plain wrong! > I am a legitimate researcher and will continue to do legitimate > research! > If anything I have been na?ve. > > My simple basic 3D design is based on mature electric motor and > electric generator science working with-in the laws of physics and > conservation. > It takes power to make power! > > My design is 100% about increasing output efficiency with a new > frame or platform, which will allow for more options in the field of > Power Generation! > What is wrong with a hybrid motor generator? > > I have no disclaimer. I will back up my claims. My story is my > description of how I came up with the hybrid concept. The ?Star of > David? configuration accurately lays out component locations, giving > designers and builders an easy overview of the expandability of the > machines design. > > To date I have followed all the rules. After conceiving my hybrid > design, I began to search the web and the USPTO?s data base to see > if anyone had already patented this concept. I paid my patent > attorney for a professional patent searcher. The professional search > came up with about a dozen similar designs but, did not exclude me > from moving forward. I then built my first prototype and used the > data to draft my patent application. I have paid all the required > fees and my patent documents will be published by the USPTO March > 2010. > > > I will have my petition filed this week with the USPTO to take > advantage of the pilot program for green technologies. I am actively > seeking funding to take my design to the next level, full size > working models that I can use to produce the needed data to > substantiate or verify my claims. That?s how the system works! > > I realize for the most part I did not communicate properly in the > beginning. > Let the record show I was the one to introduce this new concept and > shared my abstract with this group at no cost or obligation because > I am excited about everything I have accomplished in this field! > > I am Proud of all my accomplishments! > > Sincerely, > > Carey Dahlen, Master Electrician - General Supervising Electrician > #5522S for the Great State of Oregon. > > > Carey Dahlen, CEO > EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC > 3D Propulsion, LLC > Website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com > Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com > Business; 541-227-9063 > > Copyright ? 2009 EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC > All Rights Reserved. > _______________________________________________ > Oeva-list mailing list > Oeva-list at oeva.org > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100126/21ab9ff1/attachment.html From citicar at no-url.com Tue Jan 26 08:27:39 2010 From: citicar at no-url.com (Oliver) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 08:27:39 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] Smell Test? In-Reply-To: <730A9ED4-36A9-4CFD-9645-F29EDF06540E@gmail.com> References: <644207.83158.qm@web506.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <730A9ED4-36A9-4CFD-9645-F29EDF06540E@gmail.com> Message-ID: <40E68FD5CDDE492C90D5AFDE6CFBFA0B@nourl.com> I?m confused. I thought this group promoted innovation. Have any of you tested Carey?s design and found it not to work? He has obviously spent an enormous amount of time, energy and personal funding getting to this point, and is proud of his invention. You respond by telling him to remove the link? WTF? Keep at it Carey ? the world is NEVER as flat as they tell you! My 2 cents. -Oliver _____ From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of Rob Stewert Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 8:19 AM To: carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com Cc: Oeva-list at oeva.org Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Smell Test? Methinks thou doth protest too much. Bob Stewert Portland, OR rbstewert at gmail.com On Jan 26, 2010, at 7:27 AM, Carey Dahlen wrote: Smell Test? I have never been attacked like this in all my life! I had to ask my self what in the hell is going on here. It has become quite clear I am not communicating effectively; this whole thing has hit a nerve, spiraling out of control. I would never insult the intelligence of this worthy association. I see a group of people who are trying to influence positive change in the electric vehicle industry in our region. I am also. I have only been a member of this group for a short time. I?ve read your messages, Like me, I see you are all problem solvers! Damage Control! In order to stop the bleeding and put an end to all this nonsense, let me make the following crystal clear! My design has absolutely nothing to do with the smoke and mirrors of so called ?Free Energy? or free energy machines period! I will not be associated with scams or be labeled as a charlatan! I am a hard working honest Christian man! I have never even heard of Joseph Newman or Bruce DePalma. Nor, do I care what they do! or claim! it must be preposterous. I should stop right here and let the dust settle! But the amount of character assignation was way over the top. A man is not a man if he does not defend himself. To imply my work is not legitimate and that I am some sort of bottom feeder seeking to steal away funding is just plain wrong! I am a legitimate researcher and will continue to do legitimate research! If anything I have been na?ve. My simple basic 3D design is based on mature electric motor and electric generator science working with-in the laws of physics and conservation. It takes power to make power! My design is 100% about increasing output efficiency with a new frame or platform, which will allow for more options in the field of Power Generation! What is wrong with a hybrid motor generator? I have no disclaimer. I will back up my claims. My story is my description of how I came up with the hybrid concept. The ?Star of David? configuration accurately lays out component locations, giving designers and builders an easy overview of the expandability of the machines design. To date I have followed all the rules. After conceiving my hybrid design, I began to search the web and the USPTO?s data base to see if anyone had already patented this concept. I paid my patent attorney for a professional patent searcher. The professional search came up with about a dozen similar designs but, did not exclude me from moving forward. I then built my first prototype and used the data to draft my patent application. I have paid all the required fees and my patent documents will be published by the USPTO March 2010. I will have my petition filed this week with the USPTO to take advantage of the pilot program for green technologies. I am actively seeking funding to take my design to the next level, full size working models that I can use to produce the needed data to substantiate or verify my claims. That?s how the system works! I realize for the most part I did not communicate properly in the beginning. Let the record show I was the one to introduce this new concept and shared my abstract with this group at no cost or obligation because I am excited about everything I have accomplished in this field! I am Proud of all my accomplishments! Sincerely, Carey Dahlen, Master Electrician - General Supervising Electrician #5522S for the Great State of Oregon. Carey Dahlen, CEO EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC 3D Propulsion, LLC Website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com Business; 541-227-9063 Copyright ? 2009 EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC All Rights Reserved. _______________________________________________ Oeva-list mailing list Oeva-list at oeva.org http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100126/0f611d5f/attachment-0001.html From dannyb61 at comcast.net Tue Jan 26 08:58:59 2010 From: dannyb61 at comcast.net (Dan Bortel) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 08:58:59 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] Smell Test? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2B3D48BA0463484D8EFFAEBE924BC036@office1> Carey, It sounds like you are really passionate about your work and believe in your results. You will have to forgive the response you have gotten so far. The EV community has been burned many times by 'inventors' that had devices to give amazing energy savings (most of these 'inventors' are now in prison). Because of that, Evers are VERY skeptical of new claims. They now have to see it to believe it. Doesn't the old saying go that 'everyone fears what they don't understand'. I would suggest that you schedule a time to come to an OEVA meeting and do a demonstration of your equipment. That way OEVA folks, many of whom are highly respected engineers and physicists, will see first hand what you are talking about. They will then be able to give you informed criticism based on currently accepted science. Dan ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 07:27:54 -0800 (PST) From: Carey Dahlen Subject: [Oeva-list] Smell Test? To: Oeva-list at oeva.org Message-ID: <644207.83158.qm at web506.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Smell Test? I have never been attacked like this in all my life! I had to ask my self what in the hell is going on here. It has become quite clear I am not communicating effectively; this whole thing has hit a nerve, spiraling out of control. I am Proud of all my accomplishments! ? Sincerely, ? Carey Dahlen, Master Electrician - General Supervising Electrician #5522S for the Great State of Oregon. ? Carey Dahlen, CEO EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC 3D Propulsion, LLC? Website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com Business; 541-227-9063 ? Copyright ??2009 EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC All Rights Reserved. From climer97007 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 26 09:02:35 2010 From: climer97007 at yahoo.com (Gene Climer) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 09:02:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Oeva-list] Smell Test? In-Reply-To: <2B3D48BA0463484D8EFFAEBE924BC036@office1> References: <2B3D48BA0463484D8EFFAEBE924BC036@office1> Message-ID: <414935.25749.qm@web32205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> This is a great idea Dan. Carey, I look forward to your presentation. Should be very interesting. Gino ? ________________________________ From: Dan Bortel To: oeva-list at oeva.org Sent: Tue, January 26, 2010 8:58:59 AM Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Smell Test? Carey, It sounds like you are really passionate about your work and believe in your results. You will have to forgive the response you have gotten so far. The EV community has been burned many times by 'inventors' that had devices to give amazing energy savings (most of these 'inventors' are now in prison). Because of that, Evers are VERY skeptical of new claims. They now have to see it to believe it. Doesn't the old saying go that 'everyone fears what they don't understand'. I would suggest that you schedule a time to come to an OEVA meeting and do a demonstration of your equipment. That way OEVA folks, many of whom are highly respected engineers and physicists, will see first hand what you are talking about. They will then be able to give you informed criticism based on currently accepted science. Dan ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 07:27:54 -0800 (PST) From: Carey Dahlen Subject: [Oeva-list] Smell Test? To: Oeva-list at oeva.org Message-ID: <644207.83158.qm at web506.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Smell Test? I have never been attacked like this in all my life! I had to ask my self what in the hell is going on here. It has become quite clear I am not communicating effectively; this whole thing has hit a nerve, spiraling out of control. I am Proud of all my accomplishments! ? Sincerely, ? Carey Dahlen, Master Electrician - General Supervising Electrician #5522S for the Great State of Oregon. ? Carey Dahlen, CEO EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC 3D Propulsion, LLC? Website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com Business; 541-227-9063 ? Copyright ??2009 EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC All Rights Reserved. _______________________________________________ Oeva-list mailing list Oeva-list at oeva.org http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100126/7a416ae7/attachment.html From greenerwheels at gmail.com Tue Jan 26 09:03:56 2010 From: greenerwheels at gmail.com (steve boser) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 09:03:56 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] Smell Test? In-Reply-To: <40E68FD5CDDE492C90D5AFDE6CFBFA0B@nourl.com> References: <644207.83158.qm@web506.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <730A9ED4-36A9-4CFD-9645-F29EDF06540E@gmail.com> <40E68FD5CDDE492C90D5AFDE6CFBFA0B@nourl.com> Message-ID: <62256f591001260903w368a85b6p82a5067434818669@mail.gmail.com> Hi All My question is: Should any company or individual asking for investors use the OEVA as what might be viewed as a reference? Particularly when there isn't any evidence the device operates as described. Without first posting if anyone had any concerns about referencing the OEVA? And is there anything written that addresses this concern? Personally if I had something to sell, I'd ask before I put a link on my webpage. I agree with Dan, I think everyone would like to see your device in action. Thank you Steve Boser On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 8:27 AM, Oliver wrote: > I?m confused. I thought this group *promoted* innovation. Have any of > you tested Carey?s design and found it not to work? He has obviously spent > an enormous amount of time, energy and personal funding getting to this > point, and is proud of his invention. You respond by telling him to remove > the link? WTF? > > > > Keep at it Carey ? the world is NEVER as flat as they tell you! > > > > My 2 cents. > > > > -Oliver > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] *On > Behalf Of *Rob Stewert > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 26, 2010 8:19 AM > *To:* carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com > *Cc:* Oeva-list at oeva.org > > *Subject:* Re: [Oeva-list] Smell Test? > > > > Methinks thou doth protest too much. > > > > Bob Stewert > > Portland, OR > > rbstewert at gmail.com > > > > > > > > On Jan 26, 2010, at 7:27 AM, Carey Dahlen wrote: > > > > Smell Test? > > I have never been attacked like this in all my life! I had to ask my self > what in the hell is going on here. It has become quite clear I am not > communicating effectively; this whole thing has hit a nerve, spiraling out > of control. > > > > I would never insult the intelligence of this worthy association. > > I see a group of people who are trying to influence positive change in the > electric vehicle industry in our region. I am also. I have only been a > member of this group for a short time. I?ve read your messages, Like me, I > see you are all problem solvers! > > > > Damage Control! In order to stop the bleeding and put an end to all this > nonsense, let me make the following crystal clear! > > > > My design has *absolutely nothing* to do with the smoke and mirrors of so > called ?Free Energy? or free energy machines period! I will not be > associated with scams or be labeled as a charlatan! I am a hard working > honest Christian man! > > I have never even heard of Joseph Newman or Bruce DePalma. Nor, do I care > what they do! or claim! it must be preposterous. > > > > I should stop right here and let the dust settle! > > But the amount of character assignation was way over the top. A man is not > a man if he does not defend himself. To imply my work is not legitimate and > that I am some sort of bottom feeder seeking to steal away funding is just > plain wrong! > > I am a legitimate researcher and will continue to do legitimate research! > > If anything I have been na?ve. > > > > My simple basic 3D design is based on mature electric motor and electric > generator science working *with-in* the laws of physics and conservation. > > *It takes power to make power!* > > > > My design *is* 100% about increasing *output efficiency* with a new frame > or platform, which will allow for *more options* in the field of Power > Generation! > > What is wrong with a hybrid motor generator? > > > > I have no disclaimer. I will back up my claims. My story is my description > of how I came up with the hybrid concept. The ?Star of David? configuration > accurately lays out component locations, giving designers and builders an > easy overview of the expandability of the machines design. > > > > To date I have followed all the rules. After conceiving my hybrid design, I > began to search the web and the USPTO?s data base to see if anyone had > already patented this concept. I paid my patent attorney for a professional > patent searcher. The professional search came up with about a dozen similar > designs but, did not exclude me from moving forward. I then built my first > prototype and used the data to draft my patent application. I have paid all > the required fees and my patent documents will be published by the USPTO > March 2010. > > > > > > I will have my petition filed this week with the USPTO to take advantage of > the pilot program for green technologies. I am actively seeking funding to > take my design to the next level, full size working models that I can use to > produce the needed data to substantiate or verify my claims. That?s how the > system works! > > > > I realize for the most part I did not communicate properly in the > beginning. > > Let the record show I was the one to introduce this new concept and shared > my abstract with this group at no cost or obligation because I am excited > about everything I have accomplished in this field! > > > > I am Proud of all my accomplishments! > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Carey Dahlen, Master Electrician - General Supervising Electrician #5522S > for the Great State of Oregon. > > > > Carey Dahlen, CEO > *EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC* > > *3D Propulsion, LLC* > Website; *evergreenelectricvehicles.com* > Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com > > Business; 541-227-9063 > > > > Copyright ? 2009 EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC > All Rights Reserved. > > _______________________________________________ > Oeva-list mailing list > Oeva-list at oeva.org > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Oeva-list mailing list > Oeva-list at oeva.org > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100126/785b2d1d/attachment-0001.html From gary.graunke at intel.com Tue Jan 26 09:07:28 2010 From: gary.graunke at intel.com (Graunke, Gary) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 09:07:28 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] product/invention discussions Message-ID: <9662F248D13E8C45B097A77F005E972959D3FC2C@orsmsx503.amr.corp.intel.com> We don't have a moderated list, but even if we did the moderator would not want to undertake the possibility of evaluating products or inventions announced on the list. Making the list aware of a product or invention is a good thing, but having a lengthy discussion over the merits or lack thereof consumes a lot of personal time for all the members on the list. The OEVA has not endorsed and does not endorse products, inventions, companies, or (with rare exceptions that clearly support EVs in general and with a vote of the members) policies. So it should be clear that caveat emptor is in order. If we find that a product is clearly fraudulent I would suggest a group of members may publish an opinion which and make everyone aware of that opinion by a short, single list announcement of a link to a webpage with the details, but, especially in the case of inventors asking for investment, it should be clear that they should do their own due diligence and individually seek opinions and advice of those that they trust in such matters. We should encourage this discussion-the inventor or product vendor may learn a lot from our members that take the time to provide feedback. However, I would suggest that these discussions occur via individual emails and not on the list, a broadcast form of communication. Those who would like to know the opinions of various members on products or technologies should ask them directly at meetings or via email. I also have my own opinions (even on this recent matter, though I have not spent time looking into the details), and I look at companies and inventions as part of my job as well. But I don't want the list to degenerate into a forum for debate. Those sincerely wishing for feedback can get it off-list. Thank you for keeping our list informative and non-political. Gary -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100126/489d8084/attachment.html From Theoldcars at aol.com Tue Jan 26 11:01:06 2010 From: Theoldcars at aol.com (Theoldcars at aol.com) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 14:01:06 EST Subject: [Oeva-list] Smell Test? Message-ID: <1026e.15142dfe.389095f2@aol.com> Hello Oliver >From our web site. About Us The Oregon Electric Vehicle Association (OEVA) is a non-profit association of electric vehicle enthusiasts. We promote electric vehicle education and encourage their safe construction and use. Carey's concept is just that an idea that is totally unproven. We are an association of limited resources. I think the offer by Dan is a good answer for the group. Don In a message dated 1/26/2010 8:36:18 AM Pacific Standard Time, oeva-list-request at oeva.org writes: Message: 2 Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 08:27:39 -0800 From: "Oliver" Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Smell Test? To: Message-ID: <40E68FD5CDDE492C90D5AFDE6CFBFA0B at nourl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I?m confused. I thought this group promoted innovation. Have any of you tested Carey?s design and found it not to work? He has obviously spent an enormous amount of time, energy and personal funding getting to this point, and is proud of his invention. You respond by telling him to remove the link? WTF? Keep at it Carey ? the world is NEVER as flat as they tell you! My 2 cents. -Oliver -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100126/7b60aeab/attachment.html From john.p.christian at intel.com Tue Jan 26 11:06:12 2010 From: john.p.christian at intel.com (Christian, John P) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 12:06:12 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] product/invention discussions In-Reply-To: <9662F248D13E8C45B097A77F005E972959D3FC2C@orsmsx503.amr.corp.intel.com> References: <9662F248D13E8C45B097A77F005E972959D3FC2C@orsmsx503.amr.corp.intel.com> Message-ID: Gary, Thanks for adding your level-headedness and wisdom - as usual. Carey Dahlen I applaud your efforts and would love to have you bring your device and show it at one of our next OEVA monthly meetings. I can guarantee you an enthusiastic and positive reception. Our group includes many excellent engineers and decades of EV related experience. The next monthly meeting is Thursday, February 11th. Please let me know if you can be there. Thank you, John P. Christian OEVA Chairman (503) 704-2155 - mobile From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of Graunke, Gary Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 9:07 AM To: OEVA Subject: [Oeva-list] product/invention discussions We don't have a moderated list, but even if we did the moderator would not want to undertake the possibility of evaluating products or inventions announced on the list. Making the list aware of a product or invention is a good thing, but having a lengthy discussion over the merits or lack thereof consumes a lot of personal time for all the members on the list. The OEVA has not endorsed and does not endorse products, inventions, companies, or (with rare exceptions that clearly support EVs in general and with a vote of the members) policies. So it should be clear that caveat emptor is in order. If we find that a product is clearly fraudulent I would suggest a group of members may publish an opinion which and make everyone aware of that opinion by a short, single list announcement of a link to a webpage with the details, but, especially in the case of inventors asking for investment, it should be clear that they should do their own due diligence and individually seek opinions and advice of those that they trust in such matters. We should encourage this discussion-the inventor or product vendor may learn a lot from our members that take the time to provide feedback. However, I would suggest that these discussions occur via individual emails and not on the list, a broadcast form of communication. Those who would like to know the opinions of various members on products or technologies should ask them directly at meetings or via email. I also have my own opinions (even on this recent matter, though I have not spent time looking into the details), and I look at companies and inventions as part of my job as well. But I don't want the list to degenerate into a forum for debate. Those sincerely wishing for feedback can get it off-list. Thank you for keeping our list informative and non-political. Gary -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100126/9ce0d641/attachment-0001.html From matwete at comcast.net Tue Jan 26 11:10:56 2010 From: matwete at comcast.net (Myles Twete) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 11:10:56 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] Smell Test? In-Reply-To: <40E68FD5CDDE492C90D5AFDE6CFBFA0B@nourl.com> References: <644207.83158.qm@web506.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <730A9ED4-36A9-4CFD-9645-F29EDF06540E@gmail.com> <40E68FD5CDDE492C90D5AFDE6CFBFA0B@nourl.com> Message-ID: <00c901ca9ebb$4a01def0$de059cd0$@net> Inventors are naturally proud of their inventions---and millions of inventors have gone as far as applying for patents, with millions of patents being issued. We all have ideas, some zany, some reasonable and a few, really great. We shouldn?t discourage ideas, prototyping and pushing the limits of what is possible. But even when designs have been shown to be feasible and to ?work?, they often come out to have limitations, perform poorly or not cost effective compared to the alternatives. OEVA members are not averse to diving into and pioneering use of new technologies, trying them out before anyone else and even investing BIG in them. Examples include: ThunderSky LiIon and Evercel NiAir(?) batteries, APEX Drive Labs? brushless motors, ALLTRAX, Synkromotive and Caf? Electric motor controllers and more. Many or most of these endeavors proved worthwhile and led to production quality products that many of us now use, but in some instances big money was invested and people got burned. We have had presentations by new product developers, some with patented devices (e.g. the APEX brushless motor) that received a lot of interest by our members. In my opinion, we should be somewhat careful about who we allow to present to our membership specifically because to do so can lend an air of legitimacy and credibility to new product developers. Yes, caveat emptor, but I don?t think we want to be giving forum for developers who have a concept that has no independently verifiable data available----we have gotten burned even with that data---e.g. the first early ThunderSky batteries tested fine. I, for one, will not attend an OEVA meeting that invites a speaker who uses an astrological link as part of the explanation for why his motor is so great ( Point#2 of Evergreen?s ?Invention Notes/Description? page links to: http://www.aloha.net/~johnboy/star.htg/David.gif ). Symmetry is great, but engineers expect better than this kind of an explanation. Sincerely, Myles Twete, P.E. ? Electrical Engineering and Control Systems Design P.S. ? For those who?ve not been in OEVA for 15-yrs or longer, the most interesting EV development/innovation to a few of us at the time was the prospect of using flywheel or electro-mechanical energy storage instead of electro-chemical batteries. There were at least 3 companies working on this technology at this time and looking into EV applications including SATCON (supplied flywheel storage unit for Chrysler?s ?Patriot? EV), American Flywheel Systems (in Seattle, now p/o the successful Trinity/AFS company) and others I can?t recall. The technology was mature at that time including flywheel dynamic and structural designs, vacuum tech, brushless motor/generator, inverter and magnetic bearing suspension technology. A colleague of mine who owned a successful magnetic bearing company at the time confidently stated in 1993 at a job interview I had with him that within 2 years we?d be seeing EMB?s (electro-mechanical batteries) in EVs and that the electro-chemical battery (ECB) would be history. Energy and power density forecast curves for EMB?s were shown to far outstrip the gains predicted by ECB?s. Fast forward 16+ years and where are we? Can we go out and buy an EMB for a car? For a boat? Yes and no----you could probably purchase an AFS/Trinity system (intended for UPS server backup power), but its size, weight and cost may make it prohibitive compared to the alternatives---what went wrong with EMB?s? Answer: On paper and in the lab, these design concepts were amazing. But outside the lab, where cost, size/weight, vibration, temperature fluctuations, power-up/down, overload and safety issues and other concerns play in, none of the designs have gone to market for EVs. Does that mean EMB?s were/are a bad idea? No. Does it mean they are impractical? Not likely, given the right design and manufacturing approach to make them safe, reliable, performing and inexpensive. I personally believe that there are some great designs for EMB?s out there that have been demonstrated in the lab, but are either stymied to go into production due to patents (held by AFS/Trintity, Satcon, Beacon Power or others) that deny others from using the technology without licensing. In short, a technology can be mature, high performing and have great applicability and yet due to cost or other constraints, become undesirable or impractical compared to the alternatives. Widespread use of flywheel energy storage, which was hailed in a 1973 Scientific American article as the next big thing, is a key example of this as related to making EVs able to have 200+ mile range and recharge within minutes. From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of Oliver Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 8:28 AM To: Oeva-list at oeva.org Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Smell Test? I?m confused. I thought this group promoted innovation. Have any of you tested Carey?s design and found it not to work? He has obviously spent an enormous amount of time, energy and personal funding getting to this point, and is proud of his invention. You respond by telling him to remove the link? WTF? Keep at it Carey ? the world is NEVER as flat as they tell you! My 2 cents. -Oliver _____ From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of Rob Stewert Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 8:19 AM To: carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com Cc: Oeva-list at oeva.org Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Smell Test? Methinks thou doth protest too much. Bob Stewert Portland, OR rbstewert at gmail.com On Jan 26, 2010, at 7:27 AM, Carey Dahlen wrote: Smell Test? I have never been attacked like this in all my life! I had to ask my self what in the hell is going on here. It has become quite clear I am not communicating effectively; this whole thing has hit a nerve, spiraling out of control. I would never insult the intelligence of this worthy association. I see a group of people who are trying to influence positive change in the electric vehicle industry in our region. I am also. I have only been a member of this group for a short time. I?ve read your messages, Like me, I see you are all problem solvers! Damage Control! In order to stop the bleeding and put an end to all this nonsense, let me make the following crystal clear! My design has absolutely nothing to do with the smoke and mirrors of so called ?Free Energy? or free energy machines period! I will not be associated with scams or be labeled as a charlatan! I am a hard working honest Christian man! I have never even heard of Joseph Newman or Bruce DePalma. Nor, do I care what they do! or claim! it must be preposterous. I should stop right here and let the dust settle! But the amount of character assignation was way over the top. A man is not a man if he does not defend himself. To imply my work is not legitimate and that I am some sort of bottom feeder seeking to steal away funding is just plain wrong! I am a legitimate researcher and will continue to do legitimate research! If anything I have been na?ve. My simple basic 3D design is based on mature electric motor and electric generator science working with-in the laws of physics and conservation. It takes power to make power! My design is 100% about increasing output efficiency with a new frame or platform, which will allow for more options in the field of Power Generation! What is wrong with a hybrid motor generator? I have no disclaimer. I will back up my claims. My story is my description of how I came up with the hybrid concept. The ?Star of David? configuration accurately lays out component locations, giving designers and builders an easy overview of the expandability of the machines design. To date I have followed all the rules. After conceiving my hybrid design, I began to search the web and the USPTO?s data base to see if anyone had already patented this concept. I paid my patent attorney for a professional patent searcher. The professional search came up with about a dozen similar designs but, did not exclude me from moving forward. I then built my first prototype and used the data to draft my patent application. I have paid all the required fees and my patent documents will be published by the USPTO March 2010. I will have my petition filed this week with the USPTO to take advantage of the pilot program for green technologies. I am actively seeking funding to take my design to the next level, full size working models that I can use to produce the needed data to substantiate or verify my claims. That?s how the system works! I realize for the most part I did not communicate properly in the beginning. Let the record show I was the one to introduce this new concept and shared my abstract with this group at no cost or obligation because I am excited about everything I have accomplished in this field! I am Proud of all my accomplishments! Sincerely, Carey Dahlen, Master Electrician - General Supervising Electrician #5522S for the Great State of Oregon. Carey Dahlen, CEO EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC 3D Propulsion, LLC Website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com Business; 541-227-9063 Copyright ? 2009 EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC All Rights Reserved. _______________________________________________ Oeva-list mailing list Oeva-list at oeva.org http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100126/c8cb1c91/attachment-0001.html From jason at frankencar.org Tue Jan 26 11:18:12 2010 From: jason at frankencar.org (Jason Weitz) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 11:18:12 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] EV Community Burned Message-ID: <1972f2d81001261118j39e7e370vaf8962f05a829752@mail.gmail.com> Okay, I have to say something here. I fully understand that the EV community has been burned in the past. I fully understand that several companies and individuals have given us a bad reputation with the outside world, and so I understand that we should be careful what we claim as a community, lest more criticism befall us. However, does nobody else understand the difference between cautious skepticism and plain old rudeness? I've noticed on this back and forth about the 3D motor/generator as well as on other EV forums that the skepticism skips all decent human conversation and turns right into severe and low-blowing hostility. Frankly, I don't like this community anymore. I thought that the whole idea of being involved in the EV and especially DIY EV fold was that we are pushing for new and innovative technologies that make the world better. How do you react when someone tells you that EV's are impractical? You know better, so why are we so hostile to each other? For crying out loud, the guy's in Medford! So just civilly voice your skepticism and request a demonstration! There's no need to jump down someone's throat when they're honestly trying to make a difference. Furthermore, all the brilliant, "respected engineers and physicists" should know more than ANYBODY that science is constantly on the path of proving itself wrong. "Accepted Science" is the most useless kind, because if we accepted what we know now, we'd never learn anything new! So if you're a smarty-pants engineer or scientist or whatever, get the heck off your high-horse and go see for yourself. It absolutely amazes me that not one person said, "Hey that would be really amazing if it works! What a major step forward! Of course you can understand that I have my doubts, and I'm sure you know that you have to be cautious with your claims, but I'd love to see the machine in action for myself." It's time to stop fighting each other and stop being such bloody jerks just because you're so smart your head hardly has room for your ego. If we want to create change as a community, we can't allow infighting. If it were up to me, I'd boot anyone from any EV forum who behaved so atrociously. Jason -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100126/2f32eaa1/attachment.html From jrenoe at formancetech.com Tue Jan 26 11:47:05 2010 From: jrenoe at formancetech.com (jrenoe at formancetech.com) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 12:47:05 -0700 Subject: [Oeva-list] EV Community Burned Message-ID: <20100126124705.80f13dbd687fbabf16d86dafee65a1d0.93e028e72d.wbe@email05.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100126/4a8cba34/attachment.html From schristie at mind.net Tue Jan 26 12:34:37 2010 From: schristie at mind.net (schristie at mind.net) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 12:34:37 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] New Invention - Message-ID: <62072.1264538077@mind.net> Carey, et. al., BODY { font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px; } I think that there is some confusion about who started this. You asked for feedback. You didn't suggest what kind and so this is a diverse group of people who will offer it. I am one of them. On your website you state, "I decided to try and do something to increase the output of electric vehicle propulsion systems. I began to build my first prototype. I used a 12Vdc car battery, a 12Vdc electric motor, an automotive alternator, I hand made a 50 lb. flywheel with motor cycle brake discs, and I experimented with many different pulley ratios, until I realized I just could not sustain maximum power with this configuration. I then began to brainstorm and struggled with many different power generating combinations, motor generator, generator motor etc. I came to my end of reasoning; I then prayed and asked God to help me figure this out. That was January 1st. 2009. The next morning was my 52nd birthday; I awoke with a clear vision of what I call the ?Star of David? configuration. I could see the system operating in my mind. The information was flowing out of me like water. I immediately set out to document the design and build the prototype. As I think back now, the whole experience is hard to describe, ?Awesome?. ?Unreal? Like a cross between Kevin Costners? ?Field of Dreams? and John Travoltas? ?Phenomenon? except I don?t die at the end! I certainly will not deny where the idea came from and produced my second prototype. It is a new Hybrid Three Dimensional Motor Generator System that is the framework for all my testing. This design is very efficient. Makes sense when you see it run! One of the design aspects; It now allows us to use electricity to produce more electricity! Works within the laws of conservation and physics! My design is a new ?Tool? ?Frame? or ?Platform? for engineers?, designers?, manufacturers? etc. A new efficient way to produce and use electricity! It uses existing manufacturing materials and techniques, used by persons skilled in the art of electric apparatus. This design did not make sense before pollution and conservation of resources was an issue. But it sure does now! ?The implications? of the applications? are only limited by the imagination!? First, there would be no surprise at scepticism. In your description, you define your invention as, "something to increase the output of electric vehicle propulsion systems". The something is then described as, "the ?Star of David? configuration. I could see the system operating in my mind. The information was flowing out of me like water. I immediately set out to document the design and build the prototype." This is not a description or substantive summary of anything. When you say, "This design is very efficient. Makes sense when you see it run!" There is nothing about your description that would allow a person to validate your claims through scientific inquiry. Regardless of whether something works or not, the way to empirically validate and replicate results is through a method of validation and replication. If you have a thesis of whether or not something works or not, you have to describe it in detail (which you haven't), propose a statement of the correlation of how it does function related to the a current knowledge base (unless there is something dynamically different here then a current understanding of physics, i.e., the laws of thermodynamics etc...) must be applied to the design (which you don't describe). I would doubt that even if I saw it 'run' that I would even begin to theorize how it would "now allows us to use electricity to produce more electricity" which essentially is suggesting that you would use more energy to producing more energy. I am not being rude to simply suggest that because your information appears emotional, unscientific, and not based in fact. Additionally, your responses are equally emotional, unscientific and not based in a current framework of the laws of physics. I would suggest that if you want to convince people that your idea(s) are viable that you need to respond with information that allows for full disclosure while responding to critics. Although there are overtones that you might be 'crazy', the embedded questions and inquiries are valid. If you need to wait for your patent to clear before you disclose or respond to the issues presented, perhaps now is not the time to prove yourself when you are not presenting enough information to validate your claims. I wish you well. Regards, Scott Christie, Ph.D. On Fri 22/01/10 8:37 AM , "Carey Dahlen" carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com sent: Hello, My name is Carey Dahlen. I have invented a new way to use electricity to increase the output of electrical systems as a whole. I have invented a New ?Hybrid? Electric Motor / Generator System. My Patent Pending Utility Application, serial number 12/504,309_._ Filed in the United States Patent and Trademark Office effective _JULY 16, 2009_ is due for early publication to the National Stage by March 2010. My System allows for; Electric Vehicles to Re-Charge themselves, when not in propulsion mode. Increase (existing) EV System output by 50%. My machine installs anywhere in a vehicle between batteries and propulsion motor. My website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com Contains my Accreditations, Photos, Prototype Video, Notes to Drawings, Future Plans, Design Concepts, Press, Links and more information. This is new and exciting! Please Forward! I see things from a technical standpoint "Feed Back" would be Appreciated. Thank You Carey Dahlen, Inventor - CEO EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC 3D Propulsion, LLC Website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com Email; Business; 541-227-9063 Copyright ? 2009 EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC All Rights Reserved. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100126/655422dd/attachment.html From Theoldcars at aol.com Tue Jan 26 13:17:42 2010 From: Theoldcars at aol.com (Theoldcars at aol.com) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 16:17:42 EST Subject: [Oeva-list] Smell Test? Message-ID: <16036.141f942d.3890b5f6@aol.com> Carey Should you be really surprised by any of this? You might as well had said you have invented an antigravity machine. That your device will not fall from a ten story building when pushed off. Then take your idea or theory and post it to an association that members make or are interested in kit or home made airplanes. That in my opinion would be a fair comparison. Until there was an actual working example you should expect lots of rain on your parade. If you believe in it build it and everything else would follow. What you have done is put the cart before the horse and its not receiving the reception you believe it should. Here is a link that is kind of interesting. Some recent news that somewhat relates from the National Geographic. _http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/11/1111_051111_junk_patent.htm l_ (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/11/1111_051111_junk_patent.html) I really do not have any more to comment. I wish you the best of luck. Don In a message dated 1/26/2010 8:13:01 AM Pacific Standard Time, oeva-list-request at oeva.org writes: Message: 1 Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 07:27:54 -0800 (PST) From: Carey Dahlen Subject: [Oeva-list] Smell Test? To: Oeva-list at oeva.org Message-ID: <644207.83158.qm at web506.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Smell Test? I have never been attacked like this in all my life! I had to ask my self what in the hell is going on here. It has become quite clear I am not communicating effectively; this whole thing has hit a nerve, spiraling out of control. ? I would never insult the intelligence of this worthy association. I see a group of people who are trying to influence positive change in the electric vehicle industry in our region. I am also. I have only been a member of this group for a short time. I?ve read your messages, Like me, I see you are all problem solvers! ? Damage Control! In order to stop the bleeding and put an end to all this nonsense, let me make the following crystal clear! ? My design has absolutely nothing to do with the smoke and mirrors of so called ?Free Energy? or free energy machines period! I will not be associated with scams or be labeled as a charlatan! I am a hard working honest Christian man! I have never even heard of Joseph Newman or Bruce DePalma. Nor, do I care what they do! or claim! it must be preposterous. ? I should stop right here and let the dust settle! But the amount of character assignation was way over the top. A man is not a man if he does not defend himself. To imply my work is not legitimate and that I am some sort of bottom feeder seeking to steal away funding is just plain wrong! I am a legitimate researcher and will continue to do legitimate research! If anything I have been na?ve. ? My simple basic 3D design is based on mature electric motor and electric generator science working with-in the laws of physics and conservation. It takes power to make power! ? My design is 100% about increasing output efficiency with a new frame or platform, which will allow for more options in the field of Power Generation! What is wrong with a hybrid motor generator? ? I have no disclaimer. I will back up my claims. My story is my description of how I came up with the hybrid concept. The ?Star of David? configuration accurately lays out component locations, giving designers and builders an easy overview of the expandability of the machines design. ? To date I have followed all the rules. After conceiving my hybrid design, I began to search the web and the USPTO?s data base to see if anyone had already patented this concept. I paid my patent attorney for a professional patent searcher. The professional search came up with about a dozen similar designs but, did not exclude me from moving forward. I then built my first prototype and used the data to draft my patent application. I have paid all the required fees and my patent documents will be published by the USPTO March 2010. ? ? I will have my petition filed this week with the USPTO to take advantage of the pilot program for green technologies. I am actively seeking funding to take my design to the next level, full size working models that I can use to produce the needed data to substantiate or verify my claims. That?s how the system works! ? I realize for the most part I did not communicate properly in the beginning. Let the record show I was the one to introduce this new concept and shared my abstract with this group at no cost or obligation because I am excited about everything I have accomplished in this field! ? I am Proud of all my accomplishments! ? Sincerely, ? Carey Dahlen, Master Electrician - General Supervising Electrician #5522S for the Great State of Oregon. ? Carey Dahlen, CEO EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC 3D Propulsion, LLC? Website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com Business; 541-227-9063 ? Copyright ??2009 EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC All Rights Reserved. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100126/be5eac30/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100126/a631d4e5/attachment-0001.html From morbiusx1 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 26 13:29:08 2010 From: morbiusx1 at hotmail.com (mark barthemer) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 13:29:08 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] Oeva-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 21 Skepticism vs Rudeness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I, for one, have said I would love to be proven wrong in my skepticism, & eat crow publicly. But I'm afraid there's little risk of that. I see nothing like lab test results - energy in vs energy out, etc. Just bland statements that the device increases 12v to 24v - so do things for sale at Radio Shack for $7. Talk of "SuperCharged electricity" doesn't inspire confidence, and the inventor's analogy to a radiator fan running after the car engine stops is probably more apt than he realizes - of course, it draws power from a battery. Show us some real experimental results on the website & it might be worth a demonstration. The guy's probably sincere, but there's no explanation of what it does & how the energy savings is achieved. Some numbers, please. I'd still love to be proved wrong, but I have some magnets to energize my gasoline in a drawer - they came with many promises & did nothing, as I expected. Fortunately, I paid $2 at a garage sale, to an initial buyer who paid $150 for them. Mark Parthemer > From: oeva-list-request at oeva.org > Subject: Oeva-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 21 > To: oeva-list at oeva.org > Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 12:00:08 -0800 > > Send Oeva-list mailing list submissions to > oeva-list at oeva.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > oeva-list-request at oeva.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > oeva-list-owner at oeva.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Oeva-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. EV Community Burned (Jason Weitz) > 2. Re: EV Community Burned (jrenoe at formancetech.com) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 11:18:12 -0800 > From: Jason Weitz > Subject: [Oeva-list] EV Community Burned > To: oeva-list at oeva.org > Message-ID: > <1972f2d81001261118j39e7e370vaf8962f05a829752 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Okay, I have to say something here. I fully understand that the EV community > has been burned in the past. I fully understand that several companies and > individuals have given us a bad reputation with the outside world, and so I > understand that we should be careful what we claim as a community, lest more > criticism befall us. However, does nobody else understand the difference > between cautious skepticism and plain old rudeness? I've noticed on this > back and forth about the 3D motor/generator as well as on other EV forums > that the skepticism skips all decent human conversation and turns right into > severe and low-blowing hostility. Frankly, I don't like this community > anymore. I thought that the whole idea of being involved in the EV and > especially DIY EV fold was that we are pushing for new and innovative > technologies that make the world better. How do you react when someone tells > you that EV's are impractical? You know better, so why are we so hostile to > each other? For crying out loud, the guy's in Medford! So just civilly voice > your skepticism and request a demonstration! There's no need to jump down > someone's throat when they're honestly trying to make a difference. > Furthermore, all the brilliant, "respected engineers and physicists" should > know more than ANYBODY that science is constantly on the path of proving > itself wrong. "Accepted Science" is the most useless kind, because if we > accepted what we know now, we'd never learn anything new! So if you're a > smarty-pants engineer or scientist or whatever, get the heck off your > high-horse and go see for yourself. It absolutely amazes me that not one > person said, "Hey that would be really amazing if it works! What a major > step forward! Of course you can understand that I have my doubts, and I'm > sure you know that you have to be cautious with your claims, but I'd love to > see the machine in action for myself." It's time to stop fighting each other > and stop being such bloody jerks just because you're so smart your head > hardly has room for your ego. If we want to create change as a community, we > can't allow infighting. If it were up to me, I'd boot anyone from any EV > forum who behaved so atrociously. > > Jason > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100126/2f32eaa1/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 12:47:05 -0700 > From: jrenoe at formancetech.com > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] EV Community Burned > To: "Jason Weitz" > Cc: oeva-list at oeva.org > Message-ID: > <20100126124705.80f13dbd687fbabf16d86dafee65a1d0.93e028e72d.wbe at email05.secureserver.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100126/4a8cba34/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Oeva-list mailing list > Oeva-list at oeva.org > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > > > End of Oeva-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 21 > ***************************************** _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390707/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100126/c5e57185/attachment.html From jason at frankencar.org Tue Jan 26 13:35:26 2010 From: jason at frankencar.org (Jason Weitz) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 13:35:26 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] Oeva-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 22 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1972f2d81001261335r56cdfbf3saf5b4f685d8db44e@mail.gmail.com> Carey, You are a fool! Anyone can see, through simple observation, that a ship traveling toward the horizon DISAPPEARS! Clearly, this indicates that the world has an edge, and to sail off it would be pure madness. Further, have you looked at the ground lately? It doesn't LOOK like a sphere! It doesn't feel round when I walk on it! All accepted science clearly demonstrates that the earth is indeed flat. To claim otherwise is pure nonsense. As a man of great intellect, I am most offended that you would suggest something so far beyond the laws of physics, something that so violates all the laws of nature, without so much as a shred of proof. Clearly you are mad. [?] Jason PS Thank you Scott, for writing a much more civilized criticism. This I welcome personally. It is the "overtones that you might be 'crazy'" that I felt were fully unnecessary. There's just no call for that. PPS Don, I don't know if you looked at the website at all, but he does have a prototype. Why not contact him (respectfully) and request a viewing? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100126/5d827ffd/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 186 bytes Desc: not available Url : /pipermail/attachments/20100126/5d827ffd/attachment.gif From climer97007 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 26 14:05:02 2010 From: climer97007 at yahoo.com (Gene Climer) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 14:05:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Oeva-list] Carey's YouTube Video In-Reply-To: <16036.141f942d.3890b5f6@aol.com> References: <16036.141f942d.3890b5f6@aol.com> Message-ID: <453519.10669.qm@web32201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Don, If you read Carey's?website, he has a link to a YouTube video. He shows a working prototype running and he makes certain claims. He has is a motor driving to two generators. He does generate a higher voltage (18V) and?this results in?higher current into his lightbulb. He seems to be sincere in thinking that this is some sort of revolutionary concept. He seems to draw conclusions from this experiment that do not make much sense to us. His language seems to indicate?that he?is getting more power output than he is putting in. Trouble is, he never bothers to compare "motor power in" versus "lamp power out". I don't know if he?understands the difference between the lamp load current, and the motor load current. He speaks about all of it in?very?obtuse language. I don't know if he is sincerely naive and?ignorant of what he is actually doing, or being intentionally deceptive, or?if he is just simply doing an ordinary thing and he is just?thinking it is really something cool or what? For example, people have been building?a 1 phase 220V AC motor to drive a 3 phase AC generator, in order to run a 3 phase piece of equipment off of 1 phase power for years. Seems like?Carey thinks his concept is similar?to this but novel enough in a way different than we are hearing him. I am leaving room?for any of the above to be true, except for making more power from less. Gino ________________________________ From: "Theoldcars at aol.com" To: oeva-list at oeva.org Sent: Tue, January 26, 2010 1:17:42 PM Subject: [Oeva-list] Smell Test? Carey Should you be really surprised by any of this? You might as well?had said?you have invented an antigravity machine. That your?device will not fall from a ten story building when pushed off. Then take your idea or theory?and post it to an association?that?members make or are interested in?kit or home made?airplanes. That in my opinion would be a fair comparison. Until there was an actual?working example you should expect?lots of rain on your parade. If you believe in it build it and everything else would follow. What you have done is put the cart before the horse and its not receiving the reception you believe it should. Here is a link that is kind of interesting.?Some?recent?news that somewhat relates from the National Geographic.? http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/11/1111_051111_junk_patent.html I really do not have any more to comment. I wish you the best of luck. Don In a message dated 1/26/2010 8:13:01 AM Pacific Standard Time, oeva-list-request at oeva.org writes: Message: 1 >Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 07:27:54 -0800 (PST) >From: Carey Dahlen >Subject: [Oeva-list] Smell Test? >To: Oeva-list at oeva.org >Message-ID: <644207.83158.qm at web506.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > >Smell Test? >I have never been attacked like this in all my life! I had to ask my self what in the hell is going on here. It has become quite clear I am not communicating effectively; this whole thing has hit a nerve, spiraling out of control. >? >I would never insult the intelligence of this worthy association. >I see a group of people who are trying to influence positive change in the electric vehicle industry in our region. I am also. I have only been a member of this group for a short time. I?ve read your messages, Like me, I see you are all problem solvers! >? >Damage Control! In order to stop the bleeding and put an end to all this nonsense, let me make the following crystal clear! >? >My design has absolutely nothing to do with the smoke and mirrors of so called ?Free Energy? or free energy machines period! I will not be associated with scams or be labeled as a charlatan! I am a hard working honest Christian man! >I have never even heard of Joseph Newman or Bruce DePalma. Nor, do I care what they do! or claim! it must be preposterous. >? >I should stop right here and let the dust settle! >But the amount of character assignation was way over the top. A man is not a man if he does not defend himself. To imply my work is not legitimate and that I am some sort of bottom feeder seeking to steal away funding is just plain wrong! >I am a legitimate researcher and will continue to do legitimate research! >If anything I have been na?ve. >? >My simple basic 3D design is based on mature electric motor and electric generator science working with-in the laws of physics and conservation. >It takes power to make power! >? >My design is 100% about increasing output efficiency with a new frame or platform, which will allow for more options in the field of Power Generation! >What is wrong with a hybrid motor generator? >? >I have no disclaimer. I will back up my claims. My story is my description of how I came up with the hybrid concept. The ?Star of David? configuration accurately lays out component locations, giving designers and builders an easy overview of the expandability of the machines design. >? >To date I have followed all the rules. After conceiving my hybrid design, I began to search the web and the USPTO?s data base to see if anyone had already patented this concept. I paid my patent attorney for a professional patent searcher. The professional search came up with about a dozen similar designs but, did not exclude me from moving forward. I then built my first prototype and used the data to draft my patent application. I have paid all the required fees and my patent documents will be published by the USPTO March 2010. >? >? >I will have my petition filed this week with the USPTO to take advantage of the pilot program for green technologies. I am actively seeking funding to take my design to the next level, full size working models that I can use to produce the needed data to substantiate or verify my claims. That?s how the system works! >? >I realize for the most part I did not communicate properly in the beginning. >Let the record show I was the one to introduce this new concept and shared my abstract with this group at no cost or obligation because I am excited about everything I have accomplished in this field! >? >I am Proud of all my accomplishments! >? >Sincerely, >? >Carey Dahlen, Master Electrician - General Supervising Electrician #5522S for the Great State of Oregon. >? > > >Carey Dahlen, CEO >EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC >3D Propulsion, LLC? >Website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com >Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com >Business; 541-227-9063 >? >Copyright ??2009 EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC >All Rights Reserved. >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100126/be5eac30/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100126/a1f10fca/attachment-0001.html From jason at frankencar.org Tue Jan 26 14:09:21 2010 From: jason at frankencar.org (Jason Weitz) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 14:09:21 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] Oeva-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 23 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1972f2d81001261409l5165443cs1575cb0a3bd44410@mail.gmail.com> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW3UVabrM-k On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 2:05 PM, wrote: > Send Oeva-list mailing list submissions to > oeva-list at oeva.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > oeva-list-request at oeva.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > oeva-list-owner at oeva.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Oeva-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Oeva-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 21 Skepticism vs Rudeness > (mark barthemer) > 2. Re: Oeva-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 22 (Jason Weitz) > 3. Carey's YouTube Video (Gene Climer) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 13:29:08 -0800 > From: mark barthemer > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Oeva-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 21 Skepticism > vs Rudeness > To: > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > I, for one, have said I would love to be proven wrong in my skepticism, & > eat crow publicly. But I'm afraid there's little risk of that. I see > nothing like lab test results - energy in vs energy out, etc. Just bland > statements that the device increases 12v to 24v - so do things for sale at > Radio Shack for $7. Talk of "SuperCharged electricity" doesn't inspire > confidence, and the inventor's analogy to a radiator fan running after the > car engine stops is probably more apt than he realizes - of course, it draws > power from a battery. Show us some real experimental results on the website > & it might be worth a demonstration. The guy's probably sincere, but > there's no explanation of what it does & how the energy savings is achieved. > Some numbers, please. I'd still love to be proved wrong, but I have some > magnets to energize my gasoline in a drawer - they came with many promises & > did nothing, as I expected. Fortunately, I paid $2 at a garage sale, to an > initial buyer who pai > d $150 for them. > > Mark Parthemer > > > From: oeva-list-request at oeva.org > > Subject: Oeva-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 21 > > To: oeva-list at oeva.org > > Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 12:00:08 -0800 > > > > Send Oeva-list mailing list submissions to > > oeva-list at oeva.org > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > oeva-list-request at oeva.org > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > oeva-list-owner at oeva.org > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of Oeva-list digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. EV Community Burned (Jason Weitz) > > 2. Re: EV Community Burned (jrenoe at formancetech.com) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 11:18:12 -0800 > > From: Jason Weitz > > Subject: [Oeva-list] EV Community Burned > > To: oeva-list at oeva.org > > Message-ID: > > <1972f2d81001261118j39e7e370vaf8962f05a829752 at mail.gmail.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > Okay, I have to say something here. I fully understand that the EV > community > > has been burned in the past. I fully understand that several companies > and > > individuals have given us a bad reputation with the outside world, and so > I > > understand that we should be careful what we claim as a community, lest > more > > criticism befall us. However, does nobody else understand the difference > > between cautious skepticism and plain old rudeness? I've noticed on this > > back and forth about the 3D motor/generator as well as on other EV forums > > that the skepticism skips all decent human conversation and turns right > into > > severe and low-blowing hostility. Frankly, I don't like this community > > anymore. I thought that the whole idea of being involved in the EV and > > especially DIY EV fold was that we are pushing for new and innovative > > technologies that make the world better. How do you react when someone > tells > > you that EV's are impractical? You know better, so why are we so hostile > to > > each other? For crying out loud, the guy's in Medford! So just civilly > voice > > your skepticism and request a demonstration! There's no need to jump down > > someone's throat when they're honestly trying to make a difference. > > Furthermore, all the brilliant, "respected engineers and physicists" > should > > know more than ANYBODY that science is constantly on the path of proving > > itself wrong. "Accepted Science" is the most useless kind, because if we > > accepted what we know now, we'd never learn anything new! So if you're a > > smarty-pants engineer or scientist or whatever, get the heck off your > > high-horse and go see for yourself. It absolutely amazes me that not one > > person said, "Hey that would be really amazing if it works! What a major > > step forward! Of course you can understand that I have my doubts, and I'm > > sure you know that you have to be cautious with your claims, but I'd love > to > > see the machine in action for myself." It's time to stop fighting each > other > > and stop being such bloody jerks just because you're so smart your head > > hardly has room for your ego. If we want to create change as a community, > we > > can't allow infighting. If it were up to me, I'd boot anyone from any EV > > forum who behaved so atrociously. > > > > Jason > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100126/2f32eaa1/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 12:47:05 -0700 > > From: jrenoe at formancetech.com > > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] EV Community Burned > > To: "Jason Weitz" > > Cc: oeva-list at oeva.org > > Message-ID: > > < > 20100126124705.80f13dbd687fbabf16d86dafee65a1d0.93e028e72d.wbe at email05.secureserver.net > > > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100126/4a8cba34/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Oeva-list mailing list > > Oeva-list at oeva.org > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > > > > > > End of Oeva-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 21 > > ***************************************** > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390707/direct/01/ > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100126/c5e57185/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 13:35:26 -0800 > From: Jason Weitz > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Oeva-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 22 > To: oeva-list at oeva.org > Message-ID: > <1972f2d81001261335r56cdfbf3saf5b4f685d8db44e at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Carey, > > You are a fool! Anyone can see, through simple observation, that a ship > traveling toward the horizon DISAPPEARS! Clearly, this indicates that the > world has an edge, and to sail off it would be pure madness. Further, have > you looked at the ground lately? It doesn't LOOK like a sphere! It doesn't > feel round when I walk on it! All accepted science clearly demonstrates > that > the earth is indeed flat. To claim otherwise is pure nonsense. As a man of > great intellect, I am most offended that you would suggest something so far > beyond the laws of physics, something that so violates all the laws of > nature, without so much as a shred of proof. Clearly you are mad. [?] > > Jason > > PS Thank you Scott, for writing a much more civilized criticism. This I > welcome personally. It is the "overtones that you might be 'crazy'" that I > felt were fully unnecessary. There's just no call for that. > > PPS Don, I don't know if you looked at the website at all, but he does have > a prototype. Why not contact him (respectfully) and request a viewing? > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100126/5d827ffd/attachment-0001.html > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: not available > Type: image/gif > Size: 186 bytes > Desc: not available > Url : /pipermail/attachments/20100126/5d827ffd/attachment-0001.gif > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 14:05:02 -0800 (PST) > From: Gene Climer > Subject: [Oeva-list] Carey's YouTube Video > To: Theoldcars at aol.com, oeva-list at oeva.org > Message-ID: <453519.10669.qm at web32201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi Don, > If you read Carey's?website, he has a link to a YouTube video. > He shows a working prototype running and he makes certain claims. > He has is a motor driving to two generators. > He does generate a higher voltage (18V) and?this results in?higher current > into his lightbulb. > He seems to be sincere in thinking that this is some sort of revolutionary > concept. > He seems to draw conclusions from this experiment that do not make much > sense to us. > His language seems to indicate?that he?is getting more power output than he > is putting in. > Trouble is, he never bothers to compare "motor power in" versus "lamp power > out". > I don't know if he?understands the difference between the lamp load > current, and the motor load current. > He speaks about all of it in?very?obtuse language. > I don't know if he is sincerely naive and?ignorant of what he is actually > doing, or being intentionally deceptive, or?if he is just simply doing an > ordinary thing and he is just?thinking it is really something cool or what? > For example, people have been building?a 1 phase 220V AC motor to drive a 3 > phase AC generator, in order to run a 3 phase piece of equipment off of 1 > phase power for years. Seems like?Carey thinks his concept is similar?to > this but novel enough in a way different than we are hearing him. > I am leaving room?for any of the above to be true, except for making more > power from less. > Gino > > > > > ________________________________ > From: "Theoldcars at aol.com" > To: oeva-list at oeva.org > Sent: Tue, January 26, 2010 1:17:42 PM > Subject: [Oeva-list] Smell Test? > > > Carey > > Should you be really surprised by any of this? > > You might as well?had said?you have invented an antigravity machine. That > your?device will not fall from a ten story building when pushed off. > > Then take your idea or theory?and post it to an association?that?members > make or are interested in?kit or home made?airplanes. That in my opinion > would be a fair comparison. > > Until there was an actual?working example you should expect?lots of rain on > your parade. If you believe in it build it and everything else would follow. > What you have done is put the cart before the horse and its not receiving > the reception you believe it should. > > Here is a link that is kind of interesting.?Some?recent?news that somewhat > relates from the National Geographic.? > > > http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/11/1111_051111_junk_patent.html > > I really do not have any more to comment. > > I wish you the best of luck. > > Don > > > > > > In a message dated 1/26/2010 8:13:01 AM Pacific Standard Time, > oeva-list-request at oeva.org writes: > Message: 1 > >Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 07:27:54 -0800 (PST) > >From: Carey Dahlen > >Subject: [Oeva-list] Smell Test? > >To: Oeva-list at oeva.org > >Message-ID: <644207.83158.qm at web506.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > >Smell Test? > >I have never been attacked like this in all my life! I had to ask my self > what in the hell is going on here. It has become quite clear I am not > communicating effectively; this whole thing has hit a nerve, spiraling out > of control. > >? > >I would never insult the intelligence of this worthy association. > >I see a group of people who are trying to influence positive change in the > electric vehicle industry in our region. I am also. I have only been a > member of this group for a short time. I?ve read your messages, Like me, I > see you are all problem solvers! > >? > >Damage Control! In order to stop the bleeding and put an end to all this > nonsense, let me make the following crystal clear! > >? > >My design has absolutely nothing to do with the smoke and mirrors of so > called ?Free Energy? or free energy machines period! I will not be > associated with scams or be labeled as a charlatan! I am a hard working > honest Christian man! > >I have never even heard of Joseph Newman or Bruce DePalma. Nor, do I care > what they do! or claim! it must be preposterous. > >? > >I should stop right here and let the dust settle! > >But the amount of character assignation was way over the top. A man is not > a man if he does not defend himself. To imply my work is not legitimate and > that I am some sort of bottom feeder seeking to steal away funding is just > plain wrong! > >I am a legitimate researcher and will continue to do legitimate research! > >If anything I have been na?ve. > >? > >My simple basic 3D design is based on mature electric motor and electric > generator science working with-in the laws of physics and conservation. > >It takes power to make power! > >? > >My design is 100% about increasing output efficiency with a new frame or > platform, which will allow for more options in the field of Power > Generation! > >What is wrong with a hybrid motor generator? > >? > >I have no disclaimer. I will back up my claims. My story is my description > of how I came up with the hybrid concept. The ?Star of David? configuration > accurately lays out component locations, giving designers and builders an > easy overview of the expandability of the machines design. > >? > >To date I have followed all the rules. After conceiving my hybrid design, > I began to search the web and the USPTO?s data base to see if anyone had > already patented this concept. I paid my patent attorney for a professional > patent searcher. The professional search came up with about a dozen similar > designs but, did not exclude me from moving forward. I then built my first > prototype and used the data to draft my patent application. I have paid all > the required fees and my patent documents will be published by the USPTO > March 2010. > >? > >? > >I will have my petition filed this week with the USPTO to take advantage > of the pilot program for green technologies. I am actively seeking funding > to take my design to the next level, full size working models that I can use > to produce the needed data to substantiate or verify my claims. That?s how > the system works! > >? > >I realize for the most part I did not communicate properly in the > beginning. > >Let the record show I was the one to introduce this new concept and shared > my abstract with this group at no cost or obligation because I am excited > about everything I have accomplished in this field! > >? > >I am Proud of all my accomplishments! > >? > >Sincerely, > >? > >Carey Dahlen, Master Electrician - General Supervising Electrician #5522S > for the Great State of Oregon. > >? > > > > > >Carey Dahlen, CEO > >EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC > >3D Propulsion, LLC? > >Website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com > >Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com > >Business; 541-227-9063 > >? > >Copyright ??2009 EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC > >All Rights Reserved. > >-------------- next part -------------- > >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100126/be5eac30/attachment-0001.html > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100126/a1f10fca/attachment.html > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Oeva-list mailing list > Oeva-list at oeva.org > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > > > End of Oeva-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 23 > ***************************************** > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100126/4cf14ba9/attachment-0001.html From matwete at comcast.net Tue Jan 26 14:27:34 2010 From: matwete at comcast.net (Myles Twete) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 14:27:34 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] Oeva-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 22 In-Reply-To: <1972f2d81001261335r56cdfbf3saf5b4f685d8db44e@mail.gmail.com> References: <1972f2d81001261335r56cdfbf3saf5b4f685d8db44e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <005501ca9ed6$c25af010$4710d030$@net> Prototypes often mean jack- As example, in 1988 or so, I (and some 20-30 other scientists, engineers and the curious) paid $10 to see and hear an on-air presentation and demonstration at KPFK in Hollywood by Bruce DePalma, inventor of the so-called "N-machine", more commonly appropriately referred to as a homopolar motor or Faraday machine. The slide presentation was somewhat interesting with photos of kilowatt sized machines and such. DePalma claimed his motor/generator machine was higher in efficiency than any other motor conceivable and due to its simplicity (no windings, just a copper disc armature sandwiched between axially magnetic permanent magnet discs) it would revolutionize the world. He would occasionally indicate that tests had shown it to be 300% efficient---i.e. liberating more energy than it consumed. During the presentation he interspersed references to his almost divine inspiration in seeing how energy flows and referred to his vast experiments with nested gyroscopes at MIT as examples and credentials. As the audience grew more impatient with the lack of substance to the presentation, he offered in the end to do a demonstration, though he indicated that he did not have, nor would he get caught publicly with, a fully working device because---the "powers that be would take him away". What was his prototype he demonstrated? A power drill motor driving a shaft with copper disk and 2 axially polarized magnets attached. He spun the drill up, attached a voltmeter and voila!----30mv was being generated!!! Woo hoo! Faraday proved this over 100 years earlier---and documented it and provided the detailed theory. To lay insult to injury, DePalma then claimed that his machines generated no back-EMF. He never offered proof or evidence or theory to support this. He claimed critics were just not open-minded or agents or just rude. It was sad to see an MIT graduate so willing to pull the wool over peoples' eyes. The crowd left the building not just unimpressed, but mad. The thing I never understood was how a guy with his level of scientific education could so disrespect the scientific community as to bilk them of $10 each for a vacuous presentation and make claims that were unsubstantiated. I just don't get it.and so while I'm open minded to free energy and certainly to energy saving innovations, I want to see the theory. We are in an interesting age with superconducting materials, amazingly strong magnets, incredibly fast computing systems and with a knowledge base that is truly awesome. And indeed, I'm surprised all the time at new innovation, including with motors. So sure, please impress me with your new innovation.but don't use smoke'n'mirrors or you'll truly regret it. -Myles Twete, Portland From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of Jason Weitz Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 1:35 PM To: oeva-list at oeva.org Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Oeva-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 22 Carey, You are a fool! Anyone can see, through simple observation, that a ship traveling toward the horizon DISAPPEARS! Clearly, this indicates that the world has an edge, and to sail off it would be pure madness. Further, have you looked at the ground lately? It doesn't LOOK like a sphere! It doesn't feel round when I walk on it! All accepted science clearly demonstrates that the earth is indeed flat. To claim otherwise is pure nonsense. As a man of great intellect, I am most offended that you would suggest something so far beyond the laws of physics, something that so violates all the laws of nature, without so much as a shred of proof. Clearly you are mad. Jason PS Thank you Scott, for writing a much more civilized criticism. This I welcome personally. It is the "overtones that you might be 'crazy'" that I felt were fully unnecessary. There's just no call for that. PPS Don, I don't know if you looked at the website at all, but he does have a prototype. Why not contact him (respectfully) and request a viewing? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100126/2d264bcc/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 186 bytes Desc: not available Url : /pipermail/attachments/20100126/2d264bcc/attachment.gif From gfifield at onlinenw.com Tue Jan 26 14:41:37 2010 From: gfifield at onlinenw.com (gfifield at onlinenw.com) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 14:41:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Oeva-list] job Senior Engineer - Hybrid Electronics Message-ID: <4eb53208b68c9cc6a3d967ef6b1998ac.squirrel@mail.onlinenw.com> http://jobs.volt.com/jobcart/job_details.cfm?JobID=253854 Job Number: 300280-7386-13-253854 Add to Cart Email to a Friend Location: Portland, OR Description: Senior Engineer - Hybrid Electronics In this position, the Senior Engineer will provide electronic design and development of hybrid electric vehicles. Applications will vary from pick-up truck and walk-in van delivery vehicles to electric utility, refuse, fire and emergency, and over-the-road vehicles. Job Functions: * Participate in some hybrid activities within the Technology and Maintenance Council (TMC), the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) and the Hybrid Truck Users Forum (HTUF). * Provide block diagram, schematic and G06 information on hybrid systems. * Provide algorithm design and documentation * Ensure that electronic analysis is completed. * Much of the efforts for hybrids will be done in partnership with key suppliers; therefore, provide guidance on electronic design to suppliers. * Strong advocate for the specific needs of the North American Market. Work closely with Sales/Marketing/Service and Manufacturing to understand the needs of all parts of the organization and the customers, and promote the sale and use of hybrid vehicles. * Responsible for electronic items, hardware and software, for hybrid vehicle components and systems. * Work closely with customers and body builders to meet expectations for the application of vehicles to diverse vocational applications. * Ensure failure modes effects and analyses are completed and acted upon to assure designs are robust under all possible conditions encountered in the field. * Coordinate and participate in prototype procurement and assembly, and validation activities for components, systems and vehicle. * Assure designs integrate into existing vehicle architectures and work reliably. * Work with Test group on reliability growth. * Provide input on new electronic components to continuously improve the cost, performance and reliability of designs. * Actively participate with other groups to define implementations with existing controls and to influence new designs both internal to our client and by suppliers. * Assure the timely release of new designs, including ancillary needs of factory programming and field service. * Work with manufacturing to assure consistent build of designs and work with the field to resolve problems. * Prototype software algorithms and demonstrate in vehicle. Position Overview: * Product Development Projects - 50%: Increase the sales of vehicles by creating designs for new hybrid vehicles and options. Ensure the availability of vocational options on hybrid vehicles and as major changes occur in parts and controllers. Work to standardize designs across vehicles, engines and transmissions. Provide application documentation for Sales, Marketing, Field Service, and Manufacturing on the proper operation and application of hybrid designs. * Current Product Support - 15%: Assure custom work orders are completed in a timely manner to allow production schedules to be met with quality parts and inspections. Where necessary, clarify requirements with other groups or directly with dealers and customers. Make certain shop-calls and FRACAS items are resolved quickly and completely. Revise designs, as necessary, as parts change, hardware and software. * Manage Suppliers - 10%: Develop suppliers to meet product design requirements, as well as quality, delivery and price needs. Lead and participate in design reviews and development progress meetings with and at suppliers to assure products will meet all requirements of our client, on time and budget. * Quality Support - 10%: Ensure vocational designs work reliably, as intended in the field. Actively seek information on field applications, anticipate issues, resolve field problems and improve current and new designs. * Ensure Current Engineering Knowledge Base - 15%: Study current technological developments and generate new ideas and methods for vehicle design and systems. Stay aware of changing truck industry trends and customer needs through media and customer interactions. This is an estimated 12+ month contingent/temporary position through Volt Technical Resources- a division of a Fortune 1000 publicly traded Staffing Industry Leader, located in Portland, Oregon. We are among the largest IT staffing companies in the US for contract/temporary and direct hire placements and support most of the top rated IT companies in the Pacific Northwest. Requirements: Required Skills for this Senior Engineer position includes the following: * Bachelor's degree in Electrical Engineering with 4 years of experience in the design and development of vehicle electronic controls, such as body controllers, engine controls, transmission controls or power electronics; or an Associate's degree and 6 years of experience. * 1 year of group/project lead or mentoring experience. * Expert knowledge of communications data links and controller programming. * Project management experience. * Familiarity with programming and test equipment in truck assembly plants preferred. * Knowledgeable in power electronics, vehicle data links, instrumentation for drivers, software development, algorithm development and vehicle integration preferred. * Possess a CDL license or able to obtain within 1 year of assuming position. * Experience in hybrid development preferred. * Good written and verbal communications skills. Instructions to begin the process: * Email your resume to Volt at: portland0233 at volt.com and it will be expedited to the Recruiter assigned to this position. * Please use the entire job posting number in your subject line to ensure it gets routed to the correct Recruiter: 300280-7386-13-253854, also include the website where you saw this posting. Please rest assured that if your resume matches what is reflected in this job posting, you should receive a phone call from a Volt Recruiter to discuss this position with you. Thank you for your attention to these details! Volt has a talented and optimistic staffing team focused on the quality of your career. Volt is a world leader in the staffing industry, boasting over 50 years of experience. We work with many of the Fortune 500 and 1000 companies to provide workforce solutions. We offer many direct hire full-time positions as well as many contract positions; offering our contractors competitive pay and benefits, as well as education programs and re-deployment assistance. Volt Information Sciences, Inc. is our parent company and is a publicly owned corporation. Stock is traded over-the-counter and is quoted on the NYSE. To learn more about Volt Information Sciences, please visit: http://www.volt.com and to see more of our job postings, please visit: http://www.jobs.volt.com Volt is an Equal Opportunity Employer and is dedicated to fostering diversity in the workplace. Type: CONTRACT Duration: 365+ Days Payrate: DOE Contact: Volt Technical Resources 1300 SW 5th Ave., Ste. 2625 Portland, OR 97201 Phone: 503-227-3332 Fax: 503/221-6992 portland0233 at volt.com From gary at greenlivingjournal.com Tue Jan 26 14:55:32 2010 From: gary at greenlivingjournal.com (Gary Munkhoff) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 14:55:32 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] Hybrid Power Generation Message-ID: <4B5F72E4.50001@greenlivingjournal.com> Hi All. New member here, but I have been following the Carey Dahlen invention or is it a discovery? After watching his demo on You Tube I sent him the following email: Hi Carey, Your video shows that your device increases the battery input voltage of 12 vols to 18 volts of output. So once the system is started, the battery could be disconnected and 12 volts of the 18 volts of output would be consumed to keep the system running leaving you 6 volts to be used elsewhere. Is this correct? Gary He quickly responded with this email: Hi Gary, To answer your question for an EV application. The short version is yes! I pictured the extra power generated to go directly to the drive motor. Increasing the available power to the system, increasing speed and/or distance. Or another way to look at it. Reducing the amount of batteries, reducing weight for a vehicle, to travel that same distance. My design concept is a new way to use electricity, to produce even more electricity. A new way to combine interrelated science's, electric - motors & generators. It is a workhorse, a new frame, platform or tool to be used by engineers, designers, manufacturers and the public. I hand made the prototype in my video. It is basic, fragile, but demonstrates the working principals of my 3D concept. Bottom Line it Works! I am starting to gain momentum. Anything new, first is rejected, before it is accepted. The "Status Quo" does not like change! My design will put change back in America's pocket! My design goes well beyond electric vehicle applications. My system increases output power of any electrical system. One day I picture a system of my design hooked-up at my home or business. Much like an air conditioner, generating the power I need, when I need it, at a fraction of present day cost. Complete "Off-Grid" systems are on the horizon! For me this is not a "Green Business Money Grab" It is simply a new technology that just happens to have so many applications to help save precious resources. While at the same time reducing toxic pollution from burning fossil fuels for transportation and electric power production. "We Are the Stewards of Our Environment for Future Generations!" You have my permission to print this. Thank you for your time. Carey Dahlen, CEO *EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC* *3D Propulsion, LLC* Website; _evergreenelectricvehicles.com_ Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com Business; 541-227-9063 Copyright ? 2009 EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC All Rights Reserved. Now I am no electrician or engineer, but if his invention does what he claims, would it not be rather easy for him to put another video on You Tube showing the system running, but this time with with the battery disconnected? Gary -- Gary Munkhoff, Editor & Publisher Green Living Journal P.O. Box 677 Cascade Locks, OR 97014 541.374.5454 From tedwards at nietc.org Tue Jan 26 15:43:18 2010 From: tedwards at nietc.org (Topher Edwards) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 15:43:18 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] Slow news day Message-ID: <63401ECC-991D-4642-B9A4-643CB467C98C@nietc.org> Must be a slow news day. Topher Edwards Instructor NECA IBEW Electrical Training Center 16021 NE Airport Way Portland, OR 97230 503-262-9991 ext. 5056 www.nietc.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100126/893730fe/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: NIETC Logo Small.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 36264 bytes Desc: not available Url : /pipermail/attachments/20100126/893730fe/attachment-0001.jpg From AlphaWaveE at aol.com Tue Jan 26 16:16:32 2010 From: AlphaWaveE at aol.com (AlphaWaveE at aol.com) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 19:16:32 EST Subject: [Oeva-list] Projects Message-ID: <1cab2.4e60a923.3890dfe0@aol.com> Hi all, I have a couple requests asking for help. Our LCEVA in Longview WA as you may remember has recently moved our meetings to Lower Columbia College where we have started a club on campus. After discussions we have decided for our first conversion project to buy a 144 volt kit from EV America for the Metro. The school today has agreed to fund our first conversion and so we are trying to find a donation vehicle with little to no body damage and manual transmission. A Suzuki Swift would work just as well we believe too. So if anyone out there knows of one of these cars that we could use, please let us know. The other request though more benefiting to me is if there is someone out there with a good sized road bike they wouldn?t mind donating, I have a spare warp 9 I would like to put in it. Yes, I know, it is a big motor. While the club vehicle is going to be a great learning and demonstrating vehicle, I would like to get something going with a bit more zip as well. I have a 72 volt, 480 amp controller for it and will use 100 AHr batteries in it. After I become a bit more prosperous, I will upgrade the controller and voltage. Yes, I think I can make the room. J Both the Metro and the bike will be out promoting EVs. In case your wondering, I have converted a quad that has been out and about, am working on a friends neon and have the Zero X. Thank you very much. Wade Patterson Home (360) 425-6252 Cell (360) 560-4612 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100126/a82dacba/attachment.html From pusa411 at gmail.com Wed Jan 27 11:46:36 2010 From: pusa411 at gmail.com (PREMIUM-USA) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 11:46:36 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] LED Headlamps are going mainstream.. Message-ID: <793086121001271146h464cbd39x3965d19e1a4d7582@mail.gmail.com> LED Headlamps are going mainstream.. So cool tech.. http://www.optoiq.com/index/display/article-display.articles.optoiq2.photonics-technologies.technology-products.lasers-__sources.leds.2010.1.leds-are_low-_and.QP129867.dcmp=rss.page=1.html ... THX.. Daniel T "Bubba" Conway Premium-Opto -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100127/2d73cccf/attachment.html From gfifield at onlinenw.com Wed Jan 27 14:27:23 2010 From: gfifield at onlinenw.com (gfifield at onlinenw.com) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 14:27:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Oeva-list] LED Headlamp closeup on Audi 8 In-Reply-To: <00c901ca9ebb$4a01def0$de059cd0$@net> References: <644207.83158.qm@web506.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <730A9ED4-36A9-4CFD-9645-F29EDF06540E@gmail.com> <40E68FD5CDDE492C90D5AFDE6CFBFA0B@nourl.com> <00c901ca9ebb$4a01def0$de059cd0$@net> Message-ID: Link to OSRAM LED headlamps announcement for Audi A8. http://www.osram-os.com/osram_os/EN/Press/Press_Releases/Light_Emitting_Diodes/2010/Audi-A8-headlamps-with-LEDs-from-OSRAM-Opto-Semiconductors.jsp This one has a closeup of the headlamp; big download though. 3.4 MBytes. click your courser over the image to see if full resolution. http://www.osram-os.com/osram_os/EN/Press/Press_Releases/Light_Emitting_Diodes/2010/_img/300dpi_OSRAM_LED_Audi_A8_2.jpg Gene From gfifield at onlinenw.com Wed Jan 27 14:54:27 2010 From: gfifield at onlinenw.com (gfifield at onlinenw.com) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 14:54:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Oeva-list] LED Headlamp closeup on Audi 8 In-Reply-To: References: <644207.83158.qm@web506.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <730A9ED4-36A9-4CFD-9645-F29EDF06540E@gmail.com> <40E68FD5CDDE492C90D5AFDE6CFBFA0B@nourl.com> <00c901ca9ebb$4a01def0$de059cd0$@net> Message-ID: <4cec5999521f967aeb78e77e9e10ea5b.squirrel@mail.onlinenw.com> A little data on the OSTAR Headlamp http://www.osram-os.com/osram_os/EN/Applications/Automotive/index.html OSTAR Headlamp 1 qmm ThinGaN chip technology product portfolio ranges from 1x1 qmm up to 5x1 qmm chips (one chip: 125 lm @ 700 mA, five chips: 1000 lm @ 1 A) Integrated shutter for horizontal light cut-off line to reduce system complexity Monolithic protection window Low thermal resistance around 3 K/W (5 chip configuration) Chamfered edges for improved mounting of optics ESD protection diode ---------------------------------------------------------- > Link to OSRAM LED headlamps announcement for Audi A8. > > http://www.osram-os.com/osram_os/EN/Press/Press_Releases/Light_Emitting_Diodes/2010/Audi-A8-headlamps-with-LEDs-from-OSRAM-Opto-Semiconductors.jsp > > This one has a closeup of the headlamp; big download though. > 3.4 MBytes. > click your courser over the image to see if full resolution. > > http://www.osram-os.com/osram_os/EN/Press/Press_Releases/Light_Emitting_Diodes/2010/_img/300dpi_OSRAM_LED_Audi_A8_2.jpg > > Gene > > > _______________________________________________ > Oeva-list mailing list > Oeva-list at oeva.org > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > From Theoldcars at aol.com Wed Jan 27 15:31:41 2010 From: Theoldcars at aol.com (Theoldcars at aol.com) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 18:31:41 EST Subject: [Oeva-list] Carey's YouTube Video Message-ID: <409ff.7e1cf42.389226dd@aol.com> Hello Jason I agree with Gino's post below. Although I did not look at the video before. What I was implying by building a prototype is one that substantiates the claims. As already pointed out by someone else. Being able to disconnect the battery and the motor still runs would be one example. If the claim is this is a more efficient motor then show the data proving this. The exact same motor without the change and one with the change showing power in and power out amps and voltage. I watch the Video it shows nothing of substance. If your going to be a come up with a new invention that is going to radically change the world as we know it. Should it be that hard to show with a prototype that proves the results. Don In a message dated 1/26/2010 3:43:42 PM Pacific Standard Time, oeva-list-request at oeva.org writes: Jason PPS Don, I don't know if you looked at the website at all, but he does have a prototype. Why not contact him (respectfully) and request a viewing? Hi Don, If you read Carey's?website, he has a link to a YouTube video. He shows a working prototype running and he makes certain claims. He has is a motor driving to two generators. He does generate a higher voltage (18V) and?this results in?higher current into his lightbulb. He seems to be sincere in thinking that this is some sort of revolutionary concept. He seems to draw conclusions from this experiment that do not make much sense to us. His language seems to indicate?that he?is getting more power output than he is putting in. Trouble is, he never bothers to compare "motor power in" versus "lamp power out". I don't know if he?understands the difference between the lamp load current, and the motor load current. He speaks about all of it in?very?obtuse language. I don't know if he is sincerely naive and?ignorant of what he is actually doing, or being intentionally deceptive, or?if he is just simply doing an ordinary thing and he is just?thinking it is really something cool or what? For example, people have been building?a 1 phase 220V AC motor to drive a 3 phase AC generator, in order to run a 3 phase piece of equipment off of 1 phase power for years. Seems like?Carey thinks his concept is similar?to this but novel enough in a way different than we are hearing him. I am leaving room?for any of the above to be true, except for making more power from less. Gino -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100127/99eb1ae1/attachment.html From carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com Thu Jan 28 06:19:20 2010 From: carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com (Carey Dahlen) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 06:19:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Oeva-list] Carey's YouTube Video In-Reply-To: <409ff.7e1cf42.389226dd@aol.com> Message-ID: <694993.62251.qm@web504.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello, ? Does anyone have access to simulation software that would work for my 3D concept? Thanks, Carey =D~~~~~ Carey Dahlen, CEO EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC 3D Propulsion, LLC? Website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com Business; 541-227-9063 ? Copyright ??2009 EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC All Rights Reserved. --- On Wed, 1/27/10, Theoldcars at aol.com wrote: From: Theoldcars at aol.com Subject: [Oeva-list] Carey's YouTube Video To: oeva-list at oeva.org Date: Wednesday, January 27, 2010, 3:31 PM Hello Jason ? I agree with Gino's post below. ? Although I did not look at the video before. What I was implying by building a prototype is one that substantiates the claims. As already pointed out by someone else. Being able to disconnect the battery and the motor still runs would be one example. If the claim is this is a more efficient motor then show the data proving this. The exact same motor without the change and one with the change showing?power in and power out amps and voltage. ? I watch the Video it shows nothing of substance. If your going to be a?come up?with a new invention that is going to radically change the world as we know it. Should it be that hard to show with a prototype that?proves the results.? ? Don ? In a message dated 1/26/2010 3:43:42 PM Pacific Standard Time, oeva-list-request at oeva.org writes: ? ? Jason ? PPS Don, I don't know if you looked at the website at all, but he does have a prototype. Why not contact him (respectfully) and request a viewing? ? Hi Don, If you read Carey's?website, he has a link to a YouTube video. He shows a working prototype running and he makes certain claims. He has is a motor driving to two generators. He does generate a higher voltage (18V) and?this results in?higher current into his lightbulb. He seems to be sincere in thinking that this is some sort of revolutionary concept. He seems to draw conclusions from this experiment that do not make much sense to us. His language seems to indicate?that he?is getting more power output than he is putting in. Trouble is, he never bothers to compare "motor power in" versus "lamp power out". I don't know if he?understands the difference between the lamp load current, and the motor load current. He speaks about all of it in?very?obtuse language. I don't know if he is sincerely naive and?ignorant of what he is actually doing, or being intentionally deceptive, or?if he is just simply doing an ordinary thing and he is just?thinking it is really something cool or what? For example, people have been building?a 1 phase 220V AC motor to drive a 3 phase AC generator, in order to run a 3 phase piece of equipment off of 1 phase power for years. Seems like?Carey thinks his concept is similar?to this but novel enough in a way different than we are hearing him. I am leaving room?for any of the above to be true, except for making more power from less. Gino -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Oeva-list mailing list Oeva-list at oeva.org http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100128/5677e77a/attachment.html From Shorepower_Technologies at mail.vresp.com Wed Jan 27 10:31:52 2010 From: Shorepower_Technologies at mail.vresp.com (Shorepower Technologies) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 18:31:52 +0000 Subject: [Oeva-list] ADV: Fresh Air: Transforming Transportation Message-ID: <1c8af4e701-oeva-list=oeva.org@mail.vresp.com> To view all images and links, please add [mailto:shorepower at mail.vresp.com] shorepower_technologies at mail.vresp.com to your address book. [http://hosted.verticalresponse.com/443717/1c8af4e701/1740501003/c02bd726ef/] Click to view this email in a browser [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/a3e8bbd593] View Latest News [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/f6c50e5125] January 2010 Efficiency Standards Spur Innovation According to sources [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/3a6e1e3e47/key=48979] , congress will likely adopt the recommendations of the National Academy of Sciences this year to nearly double fuel efficiency [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/307b53c6c5] standards to an average of at least 15 miles per gallon for truck fleets. This, combined with ever- [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/12798b68fd/n=PET&s=ddr001&f=M] [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/c0b54aa8fe/n=PET&s=ddr001&f=M] creeping diesel fuel prices [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/c14a1c4660/n=PET&s=ddr001&f=M] are creating a breeding ground for truck innovation such as plug-in hybrid trucks - and the need to power trucks with shore power. Companies like Navistar [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/dcb989f351/ReleaseID=412470] , Smith Electric Vehicles [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/f4252ddc9e] , Electrorides [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/dd796dacbc] , EVI [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/1b197cff8a] , and Balqon [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/0406a0c94f] are all developing plug-in heavy duty trucks, some of which are already available in the market. We feel fortunate to be supporting a market where the outcome will help all of us breathe easier. Our very best, Shorepower Technologies [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/8c101badf6] P.S. If know someone that might be interested in the Shorepower Fresh Air Newsletter, please pass it on [http://oi.vresp.com/f2af/v4/send_to_friend.html?ch=1c8af4e701&lid=1740501003&ldh=c02bd726ef] . P.P.S. If you are interested in being included as a potential Truck Stop Electrification or Electric Vehicle Charging Station site partner, please contact us [mailto:abates at shorepower.com] . Visit Shorepower at NATSO [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/c1de82698f] Come see us at Booth #339 [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/b91aa052b0] at the National Association of Truck Stop Owners (NATSO [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/76ab5c880d] ) annual trade show [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/249f14b05b] from February 27-March 3rd in Las Vegas. Held this year at Caesars Palace [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/e8a5fed3ed] , the NATSO Show is attended by senior professionals from all major truckstop chains and hundreds of independent locations. Shorepower will have our TSE pedestal [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/52cc03b1ac] on display and be talking about our next generation system. Tax Credits For TSE Senator Herb Kohl [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/fc0f26c955] (D-Wisc.) and Senator Orrin Hatch [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/d97b4c68ea/FuseAction=Biography.FastFacts] (R-Utah) recently introduced legislation that would provide tax credits for purchasers of hybrid and plug-in hybrid heavy duty trucks. Tax credits would range from $15,000 to $100,000 depending on truck weight. This bill also includes a tax credit for trucks stops to install Truck Stop Electrification [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/0ff84e03ca] equipment. [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/bf954b519d/FuseAction=PressReleases.Detail&PressRelease_id=7f4ea2b0-1b78-be3e-e01d-6a0a96f3bee7&Month=12&Year=2009] - Learn more - Idling Law Updates The American Transportation Research Institute [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/ff3e0e7caf] (ATRI) has updated the listing of state and local idling regulations including: Illinois: A new 3-minute limit, with exemptions, has been enacted in Chicago. A change to the Illinois state limit increases the initial fine to $90 and adds an exemption for the use of idle reduction technologies Ohio: New 5-minute limits, with exemptions, have been enacted in the cities of Cleveland and Maple Heights, Ohio; changes to the South Euclid limit have been added. New Jersey: A change to the New Jersey state limit is scheduled to take effect on May 1, 2010 which will restrict the current sleeper berth exemption to only those sleeper berths which have 2007 or newer diesel engines or diesel particulate filters. Pennsylvania: The state limit is scheduled to eliminate its current sleeper berth exemption on May 1, 2010 Find A Shorepower Station Long-Haul Trucks [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/64e405cba7] Electric Vehicles [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/cad75463b9/hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=112650634218468454426.00045cf0fb40183f6a372&z=10] [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/91c4d111e1] [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/84a1208e1c] locations [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/729dc70035/hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=112650634218468454426.00045cf0fb40183f6a372&ll=43.133061,-93.691406&spn=27.029364,79.013672&z=4] [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/5398e1e39d/hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=112650634218468454426.00045cf0fb40183f6a372&ll=43.133061,-93.691406&spn=27.029364,79.013672&z=4] locations Other locations [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/62570f0be0] [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/cca47bc4d1] Other locations [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/60bdb44605] [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/884d7b2cec] TransAtlas [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/f1f532313a] alternative energy fueling stations Find [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/ef6b318a01] an electric vehicle [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/80db26f54d/option=com_content&view=article&id=164&Itemid=70] Shorepower Tours with Nissan A Shorepower EV charging station is currently on the national tour [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/8e55828357] with the Nissan LEAF [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/6339c5465e] and recently stopped in Portland at OMSI [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/a9319632c5] . The Nissan LEAF Zero Emission Tour is making stops in 22 cities, in 11 states, the District of Columbia, and Vancouver, Canada. The Shorepower charging station is being displayed alongside a number of informational kiosks designed to help educate the public about the Nissan LEAF and the benefits of zero-emission driving and electric vehicle infrastructure in general. The local ABC television affiliate covered [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/e8a8e84fc7] the story. - Learn more - [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/57674c6755] Atlantic City Plugging In Shorepower EV charging station customer Atlantic County Utilities Authority [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/4d5eecd71e] recently unveiled the latest addition to its light-duty fleet - a zero-emission electric Ford Ranger pickup truck [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/5db4065768] . The truck charges at an estimated cost of 4 cents per mile, saving $1,259 per year, a 58 percent savings over the traditional gas truck. The ACUA is aggressively working to green its fleet and encourage the development of infrastructure that will support the clean vehicles that are becoming available. [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/1318137cd0/id=2967] - Learn more - [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/c86b5c1b78/v=fAxEiecu040] Downloads TSE EV Charging User Costs [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/e808500a89] User Brochure [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/fc8c39732c] Host Site Brochure [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/a6de5aafa9] [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/f9c95c957a/v=PE_PUSq2IGQ] [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/f4cd36a8e1/v=PE_PUSq2IGQ] Video [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/bc14c6f0fd/v=PE_PUSq2IGQ] [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/3f91d95c17] Truck Idling Laws [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/514258c351/v=PE_PUSq2IGQ] Diesel Prices [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/9934acc120/n=PET&s=ddr001&f=M] [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/10f11785bc] Brochure [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/83bb532f74] Pedestal Specs [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/6f15ebe7ee] [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/615dd52cbb] [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/44a00c243f] Wall Specs [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/3d76f7ae45] Press Releases [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/b1fac26929] Dept of Energy Grant [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/a1e52b232f] [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/1ec61092b3] [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/68aba031df] Fred Meyer (Kroger) Install Shorepower WPI Venture Forum [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/ee8f4a006a] Clean Tech Open [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/90a6db61b8] Newsletter Archive [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/9f20e3d638] June 2009 July 2009 [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/d2bece60d2] August 2009 [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/4cc9b6a0fe] September 2009 [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/54fd37b547] October 2009 [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/6d9440e86f] [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/7ee2e57d07] November 2009 [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/c6ddf28afd] [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/bb463b5b9b] December 2009 About Shorepower Technologies Shorepower is a clean-technology transportation infrastructure company offering simple, cost-effective solutions for connecting cars and trucks to the electrical grid. Products and services offered include Truck Stop [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/3896f7cea3] Electrification [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/6056306e68] (TSE), as well as charging stations [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/93ee41c070] for Electric Vehicles (EVs) and Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicles (PHEVs). Shorepower corporate facilities are located in Utica, New York, with additional satellite offices in the Portland, Oregon and Washington D.C metropolitan areas. See the latest news [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/3903fa6623] on Shorepower [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/0f390f1e95] Forward this message to a friend [http://oi.vresp.com/f2af/v4/send_to_friend.html?ch=1c8af4e701&lid=1740501003&ldh=c02bd726ef] | Shorepower Technologies [http://cts.vresp.com/c/?ShorepowerTechnologi/1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/4617bd17bb] 2010 (503) 892-7345 shorepower.com ______________________________________________________________________ If you no longer wish to receive these emails, please reply to this message with "Unsubscribe" in the subject line or simply click on the following link: http://cts.vresp.com/u?1c8af4e701/c02bd726ef/mlpftw ______________________________________________________________________ This message was sent by Shorepower Technologies using VerticalResponse Shorepower Technologies 2351 NW York St. Portland, Oregon 97210 US Read the VerticalResponse marketing policy: http://www.verticalresponse.com/content/pm_policy.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100127/bc3c83be/attachment-0001.html From climer97007 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 28 11:40:46 2010 From: climer97007 at yahoo.com (Gene Climer) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 11:40:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Oeva-list] Carey's YouTube Video In-Reply-To: <694993.62251.qm@web504.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <694993.62251.qm@web504.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <212070.54204.qm@web32207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Carey, What do you want to simulate? I have an Analog Spice tool available. Gino ? ________________________________ From: Carey Dahlen To: Theoldcars at aol.com Cc: Oeva-list at oeva.org Sent: Thu, January 28, 2010 6:19:20 AM Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Carey's YouTube Video Hello, ? Does anyone have access to simulation software that would work for my 3D concept? Thanks, Carey =D~~~~~ Carey Dahlen, CEO EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC 3D Propulsion, LLC? Website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com Business; 541-227-9063 Copyright ??2009 EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC All Rights Reserved. --- On Wed, 1/27/10, Theoldcars at aol.com wrote: >From: Theoldcars at aol.com >Subject: [Oeva-list] Carey's YouTube Video >To: oeva-list at oeva.org >Date: Wednesday, January 27, 2010, 3:31 PM > > >Hello Jason > >I agree with Gino's post below. > >Although I did not look at the video before. What I was implying by building a prototype is one that substantiates the claims. As already pointed out by someone else. Being able to disconnect the battery and the motor still runs would be one example. If the claim is this is a more efficient motor then show the data proving this. The exact same motor without the change and one with the change showing?power in and power out amps and voltage. > >I watch the Video it shows nothing of substance. If your going to be a?come up?with a new invention that is going to radically change the world as we know it. Should it be that hard to show with a prototype that?proves the results.? > >Don > >In a message dated 1/26/2010 3:43:42 PM Pacific Standard Time, oeva-list-request at oeva.org writes: > > >Jason > >PPS Don, I don't know if you looked at the website at all, but he does have >a prototype. Why not contact him (respectfully) and request a viewing? > >Hi Don, >If you read Carey's?website, he has a link to a YouTube video. >He shows a working prototype running and he makes certain claims. >He has is a motor driving to two generators. >He does generate a higher voltage (18V) and?this results in?higher current into his lightbulb. >He seems to be sincere in thinking that this is some sort of revolutionary concept. >He seems to draw conclusions from this experiment that do not make much sense to us. >His language seems to indicate?that he?is getting more power output than he is putting in. >Trouble is, he never bothers to compare "motor power in" versus "lamp power out". >I don't know if he?understands the difference between the lamp load current, and the motor load current. >He speaks about all of it in?very?obtuse language. >I don't know if he is sincerely naive and?ignorant of what he is actually doing, or being intentionally deceptive, or?if he is just simply doing an ordinary thing and he is just?thinking it is really something cool or what? For example, people have been building?a 1 phase 220V AC motor to drive a 3 phase AC generator, in order to run a 3 phase piece of equipment off of 1 phase power for years. Seems like?Carey thinks his concept is similar?to this but novel enough in a way different than we are hearing him. >I am leaving room?for any of the above to be true, except for making more power from less. >Gino >-----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > >_______________________________________________ >Oeva-list mailing list >Oeva-list at oeva.org >http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100128/f6ea5af4/attachment.html From morbiusx1 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 28 13:40:35 2010 From: morbiusx1 at hotmail.com (mark barthemer) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 13:40:35 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] Oeva-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 28 "Simulation software for 3D concept" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > From: oeva-list-request at oeva.org > Subject: Oeva-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 28 > To: oeva-list at oeva.org > Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 12:00:08 -0800 > > Send Oeva-list mailing list submissions to > oeva-list at oeva.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > oeva-list-request at oeva.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > oeva-list-owner at oeva.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Oeva-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Carey's YouTube Video (Gene Climer) > > Carey - With all due respect, the last thing your undefined 'concept' needs is simulation software. Simply publish your lab work, if any - energy in, energy out, simple concepts like this. Then, put up a video that shows the gizmo increasing power, or whatever you claim it does. The YouTube shot proves nothing. A valid experiment is more convincing than a dozen simulations, especially here, where you have so far shown nothing of substance. As before, I wish you well - I'd love to see someone, preferably American, tap into zero-point energy, dark energy or whatever, but you show no evidence of having done so. Best Wishes (really!) - Mark PS - Calling the thing "3D' doesn't help, from a marketing perspective, since that's what we live in. What does it relate to? > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 11:40:46 -0800 (PST) > From: Gene Climer > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Carey's YouTube Video > To: carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com, Theoldcars at aol.com > Cc: Oeva-list at oeva.org > Message-ID: <212070.54204.qm at web32207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Carey, > What do you want to simulate? > I have an Analog Spice tool available. > Gino > > ? > > > > ________________________________ > From: Carey Dahlen > To: Theoldcars at aol.com > Cc: Oeva-list at oeva.org > Sent: Thu, January 28, 2010 6:19:20 AM > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Carey's YouTube Video > > > Hello, > ? Does anyone have access to simulation software that would work for my 3D concept? > Thanks, Carey =D~~~~~ > > > Carey Dahlen, CEO > EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC > 3D Propulsion, LLC? > Website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com > Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com > Business; 541-227-9063 > > Copyright ??2009 EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC > All Rights Reserved. > > --- On Wed, 1/27/10, Theoldcars at aol.com wrote: > > > >From: Theoldcars at aol.com > >Subject: [Oeva-list] Carey's YouTube Video > >To: oeva-list at oeva.org > >Date: Wednesday, January 27, 2010, 3:31 PM > > > > > >Hello Jason > > > >I agree with Gino's post below. > > > >Although I did not look at the video before. What I was implying by building a prototype is one that substantiates the claims. As already pointed out by someone else. Being able to disconnect the battery and the motor still runs would be one example. If the claim is this is a more efficient motor then show the data proving this. The exact same motor without the change and one with the change showing?power in and power out amps and voltage. > > > >I watch the Video it shows nothing of substance. If your going to be a?come up?with a new invention that is going to radically change the world as we know it. Should it be that hard to show with a prototype that?proves the results.? > > > >Don > > > >In a message dated 1/26/2010 3:43:42 PM Pacific Standard Time, oeva-list-request at oeva.org writes: > > > > > >Jason > > > >PPS Don, I don't know if you looked at the website at all, but he does have > >a prototype. Why not contact him (respectfully) and request a viewing? > > > >Hi Don, > >If you read Carey's?website, he has a link to a YouTube video. > >He shows a working prototype running and he makes certain claims. > >He has is a motor driving to two generators. > >He does generate a higher voltage (18V) and?this results in?higher current into his lightbulb. > >He seems to be sincere in thinking that this is some sort of revolutionary concept. > >He seems to draw conclusions from this experiment that do not make much sense to us. > >His language seems to indicate?that he?is getting more power output than he is putting in. > >Trouble is, he never bothers to compare "motor power in" versus "lamp power out". > >I don't know if he?understands the difference between the lamp load current, and the motor load current. > >He speaks about all of it in?very?obtuse language. > >I don't know if he is sincerely naive and?ignorant of what he is actually doing, or being intentionally deceptive, or?if he is just simply doing an ordinary thing and he is just?thinking it is really something cool or what? For example, people have been building?a 1 phase 220V AC motor to drive a 3 phase AC generator, in order to run a 3 phase piece of equipment off of 1 phase power for years. Seems like?Carey thinks his concept is similar?to this but novel enough in a way different than we are hearing him. > >I am leaving room?for any of the above to be true, except for making more power from less. > >Gino > >-----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Oeva-list mailing list > >Oeva-list at oeva.org > >http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100128/f6ea5af4/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Oeva-list mailing list > Oeva-list at oeva.org > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > > > End of Oeva-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 28 > ***************************************** _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390710/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100128/86a24205/attachment.html From AlphaWaveE at aol.com Thu Jan 28 14:51:58 2010 From: AlphaWaveE at aol.com (AlphaWaveE at aol.com) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 17:51:58 EST Subject: [Oeva-list] Club donation Message-ID: <17d32.145ef769.38936f0e@aol.com> Hi all, I sent out this request a couple days ago, but found out this morning that Ev america?s kits are pretty flexible and all I have to do is send in the clutch for them to make the adapter and coupler. So if anyone has some other kind of light car they could donate to our club, we would like to consider it. Thanks again for reading and have a great day. I have a couple requests asking for help. Our LCEVA in Longview WA as you may remember has recently moved our meetings to Lower Columbia College where we have started a club on campus. After discussions we have decided for our first conversion project to buy a 144 volt kit from EV America for the Metro. The school today has agreed to fund our first conversion and so we are trying to find a donation vehicle with little to no body damage and manual transmission. A Suzuki Swift would work just as well we believe too. So if anyone out there knows of one of these cars that we could use, please let us know. The other request though more benefiting to me is if there is someone out there with a good sized road bike they wouldn?t mind donating, I have a spare warp 9 I would like to put in it. Yes, I know, it is a big motor. While the club vehicle is going to be a great learning and demonstrating vehicle, I would like to get something going with a bit more zip as well. I have a 72 volt, 480 amp controller for it and will use 100 AHr batteries in it. After I become a bit more prosperous, I will upgrade the controller and voltage. Yes, I think I can make the room. J Both the Metro and the bike will be out promoting EVs. In case your wondering, I have converted a quad that has been out and about, am working on a friends neon and have the Zero X. Thank you very much. Wade Patterson Home (360) 425-6252 Cell (360) 560-4612 Steve Byman Instructor, Automotive Technology, Lower Columbia College (360) 442-2725 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100128/fff0385a/attachment.html From nickgaladay at msn.com Thu Jan 28 23:09:40 2010 From: nickgaladay at msn.com (Nick) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 23:09:40 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] Total cost to own comparison calculator Message-ID: Here's a nifty TCO calculator for BEV / PHEV vs. others. This comes from an article "Electrics Vie to Be First to the Line" in Jan 31, Christian Science Monitor. http://projectgetready.com/js/tco.html Nick Galaday Vernonia, OR 97064 Energy conservation-- saves more than energy! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100128/8b9088fd/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 2743 bytes Desc: not available Url : /pipermail/attachments/20100128/8b9088fd/attachment-0001.jpe From carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com Fri Jan 29 06:51:47 2010 From: carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com (Carey Dahlen) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 06:51:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Oeva-list] Oeva-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 28 "Simulation software for 3D concept" Message-ID: <232477.2160.qm@web507.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thank you for?spelling out! I will work towards providing the data and will report back, what ever the data shows.? I have located a local PE?who I plan to contact.?Hopefully he can either set me straight, or help me be able to communicate to you correctly.? "3D" stands for the three independent, mechanically interconnected,?rotor diameters, capable of altering speed, torque, frequency. Thank you ? Carey Dahlen, CEO EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC 3D Propulsion, LLC? Website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com Business; 541-227-9063 ? Copyright ??2009 EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC All Rights Reserved. --- On Thu, 1/28/10, mark barthemer wrote: From: mark barthemer Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Oeva-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 28 "Simulation software for 3D concept" To: oeva-list at oeva.org Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 1:40 PM > From: oeva-list-request at oeva.org > Subject: Oeva-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 28 > To: oeva-list at oeva.org > Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 12:00:08 -0800 > > Send Oeva-list mailing list submissions to > oeva-list at oeva.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > oeva-list-request at oeva.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > oeva-list-owner at oeva.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Oeva-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Carey's YouTube Video (Gene Climer) > > Carey - With all due respect, the last thing your undefined 'concept' needs is simulation software.? Simply publish your lab work, if any - energy in, energy out, simple concepts like this.? Then, put up a video that shows the gizmo increasing power, or whatever you claim it does.? The YouTube shot proves nothing.? A valid experiment is more convincing than a dozen simulations, especially here, where you have so far shown nothing of substance.? As before, I wish you well - I'd love to see someone, preferably American, tap into zero-point energy, dark energy or whatever, but you show no evidence of having done so.??? Best Wishes (really!)?? - Mark PS - Calling the thing "3D' doesn't help, from a marketing perspective, since that's what we live in.? What does it relate to? > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 11:40:46 -0800 (PST) > From: Gene Climer > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Carey's YouTube Video > To: carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com, Theoldcars at aol.com > Cc: Oeva-list at oeva.org > Message-ID: <212070.54204.qm at web32207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Carey, > What do you want to simulate? > I have an Analog Spice tool available. > Gino > > ? > > > > ________________________________ > From: Carey Dahlen > To: Theoldcars at aol.com > Cc: Oeva-list at oeva.org > Sent: Thu, January 28, 2010 6:19:20 AM > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Carey's YouTube Video > > > Hello, > ? Does anyone have access to simulation software that would work for my 3D concept? > Thanks, Carey =D~~~~~ > > > Carey Dahlen, CEO > EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC > 3D Propulsion, LLC? > Website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com > Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com > Business; 541-227-9063 > > Copyright ??2009 EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC > All Rights Reserved. > > --- On Wed, 1/27/10, Theoldcars at aol.com wrote: > > > >From: Theoldcars at aol.com > >Subject: [Oeva-list] Carey's YouTube Video > >To: oeva-list at oeva.org > >Date: Wednesday, January 27, 2010, 3:31 PM > > > > > >Hello Jason > > > >I agree with Gino's post below. > > > >Although I did not look at the video before. What I was implying by building a prototype is one that substantiates the claims. As already pointed out by someone else. Being able to disconnect the battery and the motor still runs would be one example. If the claim is this is a more efficient motor then show the data proving this. The exact same motor without the change and one with the change showing?power in and power out amps and voltage. > > > >I watch the Video it shows nothing of substance. If your going to be a?come up?with a new invention that is going to radically change the world as we know it. Should it be that hard to show with a prototype that?proves the results.? > > > >Don > > > >In a message dated 1/26/2010 3:43:42 PM Pacific Standard Time, oeva-list-request at oeva.org writes: > > > > > >Jason > > > >PPS Don, I don't know if you looked at the website at all, but he does have > >a prototype. Why not contact him (respectfully) and request a viewing? > > > >Hi Don, > >If you read Carey's?website, he has a link to a YouTube video. > >He shows a working prototype running and he makes certain claims. > >He has is a motor driving to two generators. > >He does generate a higher voltage (18V) and?this results in?higher current into his lightbulb. > >He seems to be sincere in thinking that this is some sort of revolutionary concept. > >He seems to draw conclusions from this experiment that do not make much sense to us. > >His language seems to indicate?that he?is getting more power output than he is putting in. > >Trouble is, he never bothers to compare "motor power in" versus "lamp power out". > >I don't know if he?understands the difference between the lamp load current, and the motor load current. > >He speaks about all of it in?very?obtuse language. > >I don't know if he is sincerely naive and?ignorant of what he is actually doing, or being intentionally deceptive, or?if he is just simply doing an ordinary thing and he is just?thinking it is really something cool or what? For example, people have been building?a 1 phase 220V AC motor to drive a 3 phase AC generator, in order to run a 3 phase piece of equipment off of 1 phase power for years. Seems like?Carey thinks his concept is similar?to this but novel enough in a way different than we are hearing him. > >I am leaving room?for any of the above to be true, except for making more power from less. > >Gino > >-----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Oeva-list mailing list > >Oeva-list at oeva.org > >http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100128/f6ea5af4/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Oeva-list mailing list > Oeva-list at oeva.org > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > > > End of Oeva-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 28 > ***************************************** Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. Get it now. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Oeva-list mailing list Oeva-list at oeva.org http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100129/c036c63f/attachment.html From davidb at trcsolar.com Fri Jan 29 13:23:05 2010 From: davidb at trcsolar.com (David Buzzelli) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 13:23:05 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] Oeva-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 28 "Simulation software for 3D concept" In-Reply-To: <232477.2160.qm@web507.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <670EB5D28B684F7B8C85E4ECEAC60569@trcsolar1a> SNAKE OIL See http://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram-9902.html for a useful benchmarking tool that can be used as a guide effectively illustrating the tactics employed by previous Snake Oil Purveyors. (Modus operandi) -----Original Message----- From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of Carey Dahlen Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 6:52 AM To: mark barthemer Cc: Oeva-list at oeva.org Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Oeva-list Digest, Vol 75,Issue 28 "Simulation software for 3D concept" Thank you for spelling out! I will work towards providing the data and will report back, what ever the data shows. I have located a local PE who I plan to contact. Hopefully he can either set me straight, or help me be able to communicate to you correctly. "3D" stands for the three independent, mechanically interconnected, rotor diameters, capable of altering speed, torque, frequency. Thank you Carey Dahlen, CEO EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC 3D Propulsion, LLC Website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com Business; 541-227-9063 Copyright C 2009 EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC All Rights Reserved. --- On Thu, 1/28/10, mark barthemer wrote: From: mark barthemer Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Oeva-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 28 "Simulation software for 3D concept" To: oeva-list at oeva.org Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 1:40 PM > From: oeva-list-request at oeva.org > Subject: Oeva-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 28 > To: oeva-list at oeva.org > Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 12:00:08 -0800 > > Send Oeva-list mailing list submissions to > oeva-list at oeva.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > oeva-list-request at oeva.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > oeva-list-owner at oeva.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Oeva-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Carey's YouTube Video (Gene Climer) > > Carey - With all due respect, the last thing your undefined 'concept' needs is simulation software. Simply publish your lab work, if any - energy in, energy out, simple concepts like this. Then, put up a video that shows the gizmo increasing power, or whatever you claim it does. The YouTube shot proves nothing. A valid experiment is more convincing than a dozen simulations, especially here, where you have so far shown nothing of substance. As before, I wish you well - I'd love to see someone, preferably American, tap into zero-point energy, dark energy or whatever, but you show no evidence of having done so. Best Wishes (really!) - Mark PS - Calling the thing "3D' doesn't help, from a marketing perspective, since that's what we live in. What does it relate to? > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 11:40:46 -0800 (PST) > From: Gene Climer > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Carey's YouTube Video > To: carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com, Theoldcars at aol.com > Cc: Oeva-list at oeva.org > Message-ID: <212070.54204.qm at web32207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Carey, > What do you want to simulate? > I have an Analog Spice tool available. > Gino > > ? > > > > ________________________________ > From: Carey Dahlen > To: Theoldcars at aol.com > Cc: Oeva-list at oeva.org > Sent: Thu, January 28, 2010 6:19:20 AM > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Carey's YouTube Video > > > Hello, > ? Does anyone have access to simulation software that would work for my 3D concept? > Thanks, Carey =D~~~~~ > > > Carey Dahlen, CEO > EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC > 3D Propulsion, LLC? > Website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com > Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com > Business; 541-227-9063 > > Copyright ??2009 EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC > All Rights Reserved. > > --- On Wed, 1/27/10, Theoldcars at aol.com wrote: > > > >From: Theoldcars at aol.com > >Subject: [Oeva-list] Carey's YouTube Video > >To: oeva-list at oeva.org > >Date: Wednesday, January 27, 2010, 3:31 PM > > > > > >Hello Jason > > > >I agree with Gino's post below. > > > >Although I did not look at the video before. What I was implying by building a prototype is one that substantiates the claims. As already pointed out by someone else. Being able to disconnect the battery and the motor still runs would be one example. If the claim is this is a more efficient motor then show the data proving this. The exact same motor without the change and one with the change showing?power in and power out amps and voltage. > > > >I watch the Video it shows nothing of substance. If your going to be a?come up?with a new invention that is going to radically change the world as we know it. Should it be that hard to show with a prototype that?proves the results.? > > > >Don > > > >In a message dated 1/26/2010 3:43:42 PM Pacific Standard Time, oeva-list-request at oeva.org writes: > > > > > >Jason > > > >PPS Don, I don't know if you looked at the website at all, but he does have > >a prototype. Why not contact him (respectfully) and request a viewing? > > > >Hi Don, > >If you read Carey's?website, he has a link to a YouTube video. > >He shows a working prototype running and he makes certain claims. > >He has is a motor driving to two generators. > >He does generate a higher voltage (18V) and?this results in?higher current into his lightbulb. > >He seems to be sincere in thinking that this is some sort of revolutionary concept. > >He seems to draw conclusions from this experiment that do not make much sense to us. > >His language seems to indicate?that he?is getting more power output than he is putting in. > >Trouble is, he never bothers to compare "motor power in" versus "lamp power out". > >I don't know if he?understands the difference between the lamp load current, and the motor load current. > >He speaks about all of it in?very?obtuse language. > >I don't know if he is sincerely naive and?ignorant of what he is actually doing, or being intentionally deceptive, or?if he is just simply doing an ordinary thing and he is just?thinking it is really something cool or what? For example, people have been building?a 1 phase 220V AC motor to drive a 3 phase AC generator, in order to run a 3 phase piece of equipment off of 1 phase power for years. Seems like?Carey thinks his concept is similar?to this but novel enough in a way different than we are hearing him. > >I am leaving room?for any of the above to be true, except for making more power from less. > >Gino > >-----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Oeva-list mailing list > >Oeva-list at oeva.org > >http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100128/f6ea5af4/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Oeva-list mailing list > Oeva-list at oeva.org > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list > > > End of Oeva-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 28 > ***************************************** _____ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. Get it now. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Oeva-list mailing list Oeva-list at oeva.org http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100129/5d07fb47/attachment-0001.html From gfifield at onlinenw.com Sat Jan 30 11:53:09 2010 From: gfifield at onlinenw.com (gfifield at onlinenw.com) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 11:53:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Oeva-list] Question about planning for charging station. In-Reply-To: <232477.2160.qm@web507.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <232477.2160.qm@web507.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi, I'm digging a ditch to replace a faulty underground power connection to my detached garage. I was just going to lay in one PVC pipe for the 120V 15A 3 wires, but somebody suggested that I plan for an EV charging station. I'm thinking of laying in two pipes, a 3/4" with the 120V 3 wire 12GA THHN and another 3/4 inch that would be able to carry up to 3 THHN wires @ 6 GA in the future, (I'd just put in a pull cord). I presume that I will not be getting 3 Phase 480 to my house in the country. So right now I have 240 200Amp service to the house. I looked up some of the codes for EV charging stations at the Beaverton Library a few weeks ago but I didn't study enough. I'm thinking that there is probably more to this planning, so before I bury the pipes I'd like to know that I've got my bases covered. Thanks, Gene Fifield From Dick-Burnham at hoffmancorp.com Sat Jan 30 13:40:43 2010 From: Dick-Burnham at hoffmancorp.com (Dick Burnham) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 13:40:43 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] Question about planning for charging station. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <170F1529B91249449A690E7E1DAA5CD9062A006725@HCC-TOWER.Hoffmancorp.com> I am not an electrician and suggest you hire one. At the very least run this by the permit desk at the jurisdiction you live in and get a permit. With that disclaimer - you will probably be better off running a single pipe with 220 power to the garage and land it in a new sub panel. Inside the sub panel you can pull a 110 circuit with it's own breaker and land that on how ever many outlets you want or can run on that circuit. In the future if you want to add a 220 outlet for your spanking new EV then it is easy to add breakers and pull a 220 circuit out of your panel without running any new pipe or a bunch of wire to the garage. The other benefit is that if you in your garage and pop the breaker it is right there to reset and you don't have to run into the house. Good luck! Dick -----Original Message----- From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of gfifield at onlinenw.com Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 11:53 AM To: oeva-list at oeva.org Subject: [Oeva-list] Question about planning for charging station. Hi, I'm digging a ditch to replace a faulty underground power connection to my detached garage. I was just going to lay in one PVC pipe for the 120V 15A 3 wires, but somebody suggested that I plan for an EV charging station. I'm thinking of laying in two pipes, a 3/4" with the 120V 3 wire 12GA THHN and another 3/4 inch that would be able to carry up to 3 THHN wires @ 6 GA in the future, (I'd just put in a pull cord). I presume that I will not be getting 3 Phase 480 to my house in the country. So right now I have 240 200Amp service to the house. I looked up some of the codes for EV charging stations at the Beaverton Library a few weeks ago but I didn't study enough. I'm thinking that there is probably more to this planning, so before I bury the pipes I'd like to know that I've got my bases covered. Thanks, Gene Fifield _______________________________________________ Oeva-list mailing list Oeva-list at oeva.org http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list --Disclaimer--Hoffman--Corporation-- This message (including any attachments) is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is non-public, proprietary, privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Although steps have been taken to check for viruses, the recipient(s) should also check to ensure messages are virus free. From Theoldcars at aol.com Sat Jan 30 18:04:54 2010 From: Theoldcars at aol.com (Theoldcars at aol.com) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 21:04:54 EST Subject: [Oeva-list] Question about planning for charging station Message-ID: <1279a.179aa03c.38963f46@aol.com> Hello Gene That is a great idea since you are going to have a ditch open. I highly recommend using 1 1/2 inch and that might even be a little tight for three number six wires if you have a couple of corners. I did a straight run for 240 in PVC with 1 inch that was 20 feet long. I used three number 6 wires and could hardly get them though. Inch and a half is not that more expensive and it would be much easier to pull wire. I was doing a straight run with no bends and almost had to use 1 1/2. If it would have had just one 90 degree elbow there is no way it would have worked. Don In a message dated 1/30/2010 12:00:12 PM Pacific Standard Time, oeva-list-request at oeva.org writes: Message: 1 Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 11:53:09 -0800 (PST) From: gfifield at onlinenw.com Subject: [Oeva-list] Question about planning for charging station. To: oeva-list at oeva.org Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Hi, I'm digging a ditch to replace a faulty underground power connection to my detached garage. I was just going to lay in one PVC pipe for the 120V 15A 3 wires, but somebody suggested that I plan for an EV charging station. I'm thinking of laying in two pipes, a 3/4" with the 120V 3 wire 12GA THHN and another 3/4 inch that would be able to carry up to 3 THHN wires @ 6 GA in the future, (I'd just put in a pull cord). I presume that I will not be getting 3 Phase 480 to my house in the country. So right now I have 240 200Amp service to the house. I looked up some of the codes for EV charging stations at the Beaverton Library a few weeks ago but I didn't study enough. I'm thinking that there is probably more to this planning, so before I bury the pipes I'd like to know that I've got my bases covered. Thanks, Gene Fifield -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100130/058ef477/attachment.html From dannyb61 at comcast.net Sun Jan 31 13:16:20 2010 From: dannyb61 at comcast.net (Dan Bortel) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 13:16:20 -0800 Subject: [Oeva-list] Question about planning for charging station In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <749602F1C04844D8BED031471794CDA6@office1> Hi Gene, Dick has the right idea. Putting a 60A double breaker in your existing panel and running 3-#6AWG (2 line and 1 neutral), and 1-#8AWG ground, in at least a 3/4" conduit with no more than 360 degrees of total bends will meet the requirements of the code. In the garage you can install a small sub panel with 2 20A single breakers (1 for up to 10 outlets, and 1 for lighting), and 1 50A double breaker for a welder and/or car charging. If you need to have more than 360 degrees of total bends in your conduit you will need to put a 'pull box' in the conduit so that no segment of the conduit has more than 360 degrees of total bends. Although the code only requires a 3/4" conduit for this run, I would put in at least a 1" and probably a 1 1/2" to make life a whole lot easier. Dan ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 13:40:43 -0800 From: Dick Burnham Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Question about planning for charging station. To: "'gfifield at onlinenw.com'" , "oeva-list at oeva.org" Message-ID: <170F1529B91249449A690E7E1DAA5CD9062A006725 at HCC-TOWER.Hoffmancorp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I am not an electrician and suggest you hire one. At the very least run this by the permit desk at the jurisdiction you live in and get a permit. With that disclaimer - you will probably be better off running a single pipe with 220 power to the garage and land it in a new sub panel. Inside the sub panel you can pull a 110 circuit with it's own breaker and land that on how ever many outlets you want or can run on that circuit. In the future if you want to add a 220 outlet for your spanking new EV then it is easy to add breakers and pull a 220 circuit out of your panel without running any new pipe or a bunch of wire to the garage. The other benefit is that if you in your garage and pop the breaker it is right there to reset and you don't have to run into the house. Good luck! Dick -----Original Message----- From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of gfifield at onlinenw.com Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 11:53 AM To: oeva-list at oeva.org Subject: [Oeva-list] Question about planning for charging station. Hi, I'm digging a ditch to replace a faulty underground power connection to my detached garage. I was just going to lay in one PVC pipe for the 120V 15A 3 wires, but somebody suggested that I plan for an EV charging station. I'm thinking of laying in two pipes, a 3/4" with the 120V 3 wire 12GA THHN and another 3/4 inch that would be able to carry up to 3 THHN wires @ 6 GA in the future, (I'd just put in a pull cord). I presume that I will not be getting 3 Phase 480 to my house in the country. So right now I have 240 200Amp service to the house. I looked up some of the codes for EV charging stations at the Beaverton Library a few weeks ago but I didn't study enough. I'm thinking that there is probably more to this planning, so before I bury the pipes I'd like to know that I've got my bases covered. Thanks, Gene Fifield From gfifield at onlinenw.com Sun Jan 31 15:13:55 2010 From: gfifield at onlinenw.com (gfifield at onlinenw.com) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 15:13:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Oeva-list] Question about planning for charging station Message-ID: <8c56321d4e1a807e48e048617e21b25f.squirrel@mail.onlinenw.com> Thanks Dan, Don and Dick, Thanks for all the advice! The garage is 45 feet from a service box outside my utility porch, and I expect to have 4 90 degree elbows between the pull box outside my utility porch, and the breaker box in the garage. Before I cover the ditch I will lay in 1 1/2 inch pipe in addition to my "120V 3/4" pipe" to the 12" x 12" x 8" pullbox. This will solve my immediate need w/o spending on wire, permits and other communications/control wires that might go down the 1 1/2" pipe at a later date. (I double checked how I did my horse barn 10 years ago, and I did use 3 #6 wires down a 3/4" PVC, but no "ground" since I was picking that up down there via ground rods local. Yes it is tight with 3 #6 in a 3/4" pipe 220ft run with service box in the middle.) I have lots of 3/4" pipe left over, but I'll foot the bill for the 1 1/2" pipe, now that I have a better picture for future provisioning. So in the future, I'll be able to do the work to get the 220 out of the home breaker panel to the service box, send the wires down the 1 1/2" pipe, and add in a dedicated breaker panel in the garage. I'm wondering if wired ENET would be a good idea/requirement for connection to a ShorePower or Coulomb or ?? charging station? Gene > Hi Gene, > > Dick has the right idea. Putting a 60A double breaker in your existing panel > and running 3-#6AWG (2 line and 1 neutral), and 1-#8AWG ground, in at least > a 3/4" conduit with no more than 360 degrees of total bends will meet the > requirements of the code. In the garage you can install a small sub panel > with 2 20A single breakers (1 for up to 10 outlets, and 1 for lighting), and > 1 50A double breaker for a welder and/or car charging. If you need to have > more than 360 degrees of total bends in your conduit you will need to put > a > 'pull box' in the conduit so that no segment of the conduit has more than > 360 degrees of total bends. Although the code only requires a 3/4" conduit > for this run, I would put in at least a 1" and probably a 1 1/2" to make life a whole lot easier. > > Dan > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 13:40:43 -0800 > From: Dick Burnham > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Question about planning for charging station. To: "'gfifield at onlinenw.com'" , > "oeva-list at oeva.org" > Message-ID: > > <170F1529B91249449A690E7E1DAA5CD9062A006725 at HCC-TOWER.Hoffmancorp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I am not an electrician and suggest you hire one. At the very least run this by the permit desk at the jurisdiction you live in and get a permit. > With that disclaimer - you will probably be better off running a single pipe > with 220 power to the garage and land it in a new sub panel. Inside the sub > panel you can pull a 110 circuit with it's own breaker and land that on how > ever many outlets you want or can run on that circuit. In the future if you > want to add a 220 outlet for your spanking new EV then it is easy to add breakers and pull a 220 circuit out of your panel without running any new > pipe or a bunch of wire to the garage. The other benefit is that if you in > your garage and pop the breaker it is right there to reset and you don't have to run into the house. > > Good luck! > > Dick > > -----Original Message----- > From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On Behalf Of gfifield at onlinenw.com > Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 11:53 AM > To: oeva-list at oeva.org > Subject: [Oeva-list] Question about planning for charging station. > > Hi, > > I'm digging a ditch to replace a faulty underground power connection to my > detached garage. I was just going to lay in one PVC pipe for the 120V 15A > 3 wires, but somebody suggested that I plan for an EV charging station. I'm thinking of laying in two pipes, a 3/4" with the 120V 3 wire 12GA THHN > and another 3/4 inch that would be able to carry up to 3 THHN wires @ 6 GA > in the future, (I'd just put in a pull cord). I presume that I will not be > getting 3 Phase 480 to my house in the country. So right now I have 240 200Amp service to the house. > > I looked up some of the codes for EV charging stations at the Beaverton Library a few weeks ago but I didn't study enough. > > I'm thinking that there is probably more to this planning, so before I bury > the pipes I'd like to know that I've got my bases covered. > > Thanks, > Gene Fifield > > > > _______________________________________________ > Oeva-list mailing list > Oeva-list at oeva.org > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list >