[Oeva-list] Oeva-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 12 - "Two Generators" confusion
mark barthemer
morbiusx1 at hotmail.com
Mon Jan 25 14:38:51 PST 2010
Curt:
Re: My "two generators" comment - This was a feeble attempt at humor - the inventor claims that the three rotors can each be motor or generator - probably true. But then he claims [application Par 0020, p.6] that when rotor 1 acts as a motor, rotors 2 & 3 are generators geared to it & powering it - perpetuum mobile! So my mistake 50 years ago was not enough generators per motor...
I'm sorry to have taken up even this much of your time, even though I wish it worked! I wish him well, but will pass on the $$$ he's offering to the faithful. Cheers - Mark Parthemer, who will gladly eat crow if it works.
> From: oeva-list-request at oeva.org
> Subject: Oeva-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 12
> To: oeva-list at oeva.org
> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 11:48:27 -0800
>
> Send Oeva-list mailing list submissions to
> oeva-list at oeva.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> oeva-list-request at oeva.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> oeva-list-owner at oeva.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Oeva-list digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. free power (mark barthemer)
> 2. Re: New Invention - "Hybrid" Power Generation (Theoldcars at aol.com)
> 3. Re: free power (gfifield at onlinenw.com)
> 4. Re: free power (cje at hevanet.com)
> 5. Oeva Members Only. 3DMGS Limited Access to Abstract (Carey Dahlen)
> 6. Re: New Invention - "Hybrid" Power Generation. (steve boser)
> 7. Re: Oeva Members Only. 3DMGS Limited Access to Abstract
> (cje at hevanet.com)
> 8. Re: New Invention - "Hybrid" Power Generation. (Myles Twete)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 19:13:59 -0800
> From: mark barthemer <morbiusx1 at hotmail.com>
> Subject: [Oeva-list] free power
> To: <oeva-list at oeva.org>
> Message-ID: <BAY136-W57A428A7BECD48AA839ABFB5F0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> Greetings - When I took an electronics class at OMSI as an 8-year old, I had the brilliant idea that if I connected the shaft of an electric motor to a generator, and fed the generator output back to the motor, it would run forever with no inputs. The teachers were wise enough to let me try it out. Little did I (& they) realize that the breakthrough, which we missed & this guy did not, was to connect TWO generators to the motor. D'oh!
>
> Confusion to the Enemy! Mark Parthemer
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390707/direct/01/
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100124/eb8048c5/attachment-0001.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 22:49:10 EST
> From: Theoldcars at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] New Invention - "Hybrid" Power Generation
> To: oeva-list at oeva.org
> Message-ID: <335a.386c2dbf.388e6eb6 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> Hello Chris
>
> That makes two of us.
>
> Except maybe we need to look at it this way. You send me money and you get
> nothing. So there you go you do get something for nothing.
>
> I went to the web site it is fairly extensive and yet has any substance.
>
> Usually you think of this type of thing with PO boxes to send money to.
> After going to the Web site I was very disappointed to see the link to the
> OEVA.
>
> Don
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 1/24/2010 5:37:39 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> oeva-list-request at oeva.org writes:
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 12:05:46 -0800
> From: Chris Arnesen <chris at darkstarpro.com>
> Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] New Invention - "Hybrid" Power Generation.
> To: oeva-list at oeva.org
> Message-ID: <4B5CA81A.5010104 at darkstarpro.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> I love reading emails like this because I always wonder how people get
> around the laws of physics. You can't get something for nothing!
>
> --Chris
>
> On 1/24/2010 10:29 AM, cje at hevanet.com wrote:
> > It "keeps charging itself after it's not running anymore, like a
> > cooling fan stays on after the engine is off"...??
> >
> > Curt
> >
> >
> >
> >> Hello,
> >> My name is Carey Dahlen.
> >> I have invented a new way to use electricity to increase the output of
> >>
> > elec> trical systems as a whole.
> >
> >>
> >> I have invented a New ???Hybrid??? Electric Motor / Generator
> >>
> > S> ystem.
> >
> >> My Patent Pending Utility Application, serial number 12/504,309.
> >>
> > Filed in
> > t> he United States Patent and Trademark Office effective July 16, 2009
> > is
> > due> for early publication to the National Stage by March 2010.
> >
> >> ?
> >> My System allows for;
> >> Electric Vehicles to Re-Charge themselves, when not in propulsion
> >>
> > mode.
> >
> >> Increase (existing) EV System output by 50%. My machine installs
> >>
> > anywhere
> > i> n a vehicle between batteries and propulsion motor.?
> >
> >> My website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com Contains my Accreditations,
> >>
> > Photo> s, Prototype Video, Notes to Drawings, Future Plans, Design
> > Concepts,
> > Press> , Links and more information.
> >
> >> ?
> >> This is new and exciting!? ? ? ? Please Forward!?
> >> I see things from a technical standpoint "Feed Back" would
> >>
> > be? Apprecia> ted.?
> >
> >>
> >> Thank You
> >> Carey Dahlen,
> >> Inventor - CEO
> >> EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC
> >> 3D Propulsion, LLC?
> >> Website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com
> >> Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com
> >> Business; 541-227-9063
> >> ?
> >> Copyright ??? 2009 EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC
> >> All Rights Reserved.
> >>
> > All Rights Reserved.
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100124/c452123e/attachment-0001.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 21:59:03 -0800 (PST)
> From: gfifield at onlinenw.com
> Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] free power
> To: "mark barthemer" <morbiusx1 at hotmail.com>
> Cc: oeva-list at oeva.org
> Message-ID:
> <c835e9fddff4c253c061db02e908003b.squirrel at mail.onlinenw.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
>
> When I was eight years old I made drawing of a water powered car that
> would use a paddle wheel to generate the motive power and at the same time
> pull water up to the top of the chamber.
> Just think how rich I could be if I had only followed though on that idea!
> Gene
> >
> > Greetings - When I took an electronics class at OMSI as an 8-year old, I
> > had the brilliant idea that if I connected the shaft of an electric motor
> > to a generator, and fed the generator output back to the motor, it would
> > run forever with no inputs. The teachers were wise enough to let me try
> > it out. Little did I (& they) realize that the breakthrough, which we
> > missed & this guy did not, was to connect TWO generators to the motor.
> > D'oh!
> >
> > Confusion to the Enemy! Mark Parthemer
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
> > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390707/direct/01/_______________________________________________
> > Oeva-list mailing list
> > Oeva-list at oeva.org
> > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 14:42:14 GMT
> From: cje at hevanet.com
> Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] free power
> To: gfifield at onlinenw.com, "mark barthemer" <morbiusx1 at hotmail.com>,
> oeva-list at oeva.org
> Message-ID: <201001251442.o0PEgEF3018995 at broadway.hevanet.com>
>
> Tough crowd, eh Carey?
>
> "Two generators hooked to the motor" lost us, I do believe.
>
> I liked the guy that was on Lars Larson a couple years ago who hooked
> up a water tank to his car battery, bubbled hydrogen out of the tank,
> and fed the hydrogen into his air cleaner as a range extender. Do you
> maybe sell a kit to do that, too? Or is your specialty free electricity?
>
> Curt
>
> > When I was eight years old I made drawing of a water powered car that
> > would use a paddle wheel to generate the motive power and at the same
> time
> > pull water up to the top of the chamber.
> > Just think how rich I could be if I had only followed though on that
> idea!
> > Gene
> > >
> > > Greetings - When I took an electronics class at OMSI as an 8-year
> old, I
> > > had the brilliant idea that if I connected the shaft of an electric
> motor
> > > to a generator, and fed the generator output back to the motor, it
> would
> > > run forever with no inputs. The teachers were wise enough to let
> me try
> > > it out. Little did I (& they) realize that the breakthrough, which
> we
> > > missed & this guy did not, was to connect TWO generators to the
> motor.
> > > D'oh!
> > >
> > > Confusion to the Enemy! Mark Parthemer
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
> > >
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390707/direct/01/________________________
> _______________________
>
> > > Oeva-list mailing list
> > > Oeva-list at oeva.org
> > > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Oeva-list mailing list
> > Oeva-list at oeva.org
> > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 08:31:03 -0800 (PST)
> From: Carey Dahlen <carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com>
> Subject: [Oeva-list] Oeva Members Only. 3DMGS Limited Access to
> Abstract
> To: Oeva-list at oeva.org
> Message-ID: <163582.84395.qm at web507.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> This information is?FREE to Oeva Members!?? The Jury!
> ?
> In an effort to do my part to help our local Oregon EV economy, create green jobs for Oregonians, quell suspicions and open a clear dialog.
> ?
> For a limited time I?will provide?the complete abstract of my invention so we can all be on the same page.
> ?
> This?information is now located on my website at the bottom of
> "Invention Notes Description" page, highlighted in green. (Abstract)?
> Please Note; File size 5MB.? Drawings Pages 24 - 31.
> ?
> Please keep?an open?mind, I have the working prototypes!
> This is exciting Stuff!!!!?
> When was the last time anything really new came along in the Power Generation Field!
> ?
> I look forward to your feedback!
> Thank you, =D~~~~~
>
> Carey Dahlen, CEO
> EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC
> 3D Propulsion, LLC?
> Website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com
> Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com
> Business; 541-227-9063
> ?
> Copyright ??2009 - 2010?EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC
> All Rights Reserved.
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100125/645ccca8/attachment-0001.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 11:10:46 -0800
> From: steve boser <greenerwheels at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] New Invention - "Hybrid" Power Generation.
> To: carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com
> Cc: Oeva-list at oeva.org
> Message-ID:
> <62256f591001251110g2579adc4h79d48d87b81f3e93 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hi Carey
>
> With number of people convinced stuff like HHO generators work, you
> should have little problem getting funding, maybe even a grant.
> You however should do some googling on Carl Tilley and don't go down
> that road, and whatever you do, don't put your motor in a DeLorean,
> I'd suggest a Geo Metro
>
> Best of luck with your device, I think we all would like it to work.
>
> Steve Boser
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 19:20:53 GMT
> From: cje at hevanet.com
> Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Oeva Members Only. 3DMGS Limited Access to
> Abstract
> To: carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com, Oeva-list at oeva.org
> Message-ID: <201001251920.o0PJKrT0034094 at broadway.hevanet.com>
>
> You got to understand here -- you're going to run into skeptics.
>
> It originally looked like you've invented a perpetual motion machine.
> I'm not sure, after poring over your abstract, that that's what you're
> getting at -- but I'm dipped if I can figure out what it's supposed to
> do. Charge when it's not running? That wasn't in the abstract. So you
> run more than one rotor -- what's that get you? Electric motors are a
> mature technology, and I'm not sure what yours is supposed to do that's
> different.
>
> A professional technical writer might help you out some, too.
>
> Curt
>
>
>
> > This information is FREE to Oeva Members! The Jury!
> >
> > In an effort to do my part to help our local Oregon EV economy, create
> gree> n jobs for Oregonians, quell suspicions and open a clear dialog.
> >
> > For a limited time I will provide the complete abstract of my
> invention> so we can all be on the same page.
> >
> > This information is now located on my website at the bottom of
> > "Invention Notes Description" page, highlighted in green. (Abstract)
> > Please Note; File size 5MB. Drawings Pages 24 - 31.
> >
> > Please keep an open mind, I have the working prototypes!
> > This is exciting Stuff!!!!
> > When was the last time anything really new came along in the Power
> Generati> on Field!
> >
> > I look forward to your feedback!
> > Thank you, =D~~~~~
> >
> > Carey Dahlen, CEO
> > EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC
> > 3D Propulsion, LLC
> > Website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com
> > Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com
> > Business; 541-227-9063
> >
> > Copyright © 2009 - 2010 EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC
> > All Rights Reserved.
> All Rights Reserved.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 11:47:47 -0800
> From: "Myles Twete" <matwete at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] New Invention - "Hybrid" Power Generation.
> To: <oeva-list at oeva.org>
> Message-ID: <005601ca9df7$4e8df6d0$eba9e470$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> >I love reading emails like this because I always wonder how people get
> around the laws of physics. You can't get something for nothing!
>
> Yeah, but we all have better things to do with our lives than to listen to
> Free Energy drivel on this and other practical propulsion lists.
> When you read everything on his website, you realize that all he has
> discovered is that you can embed a separately wound generator into the same
> housing (and plane) as the drive motor. So what? And so ignoring the
> claims of self-sufficiency and generating more power than was put in, he
> repeatedly mentions the more realistic expectation that this 3d motor
> generates power "when not in propulsion mode". Not mentioned is that the
> motor/generator will quickly spin down as power is drawn from it. Any
> permanent magnet DC motor will do this. It's not clear to me that the
> 'inventor' of this gizmo really understands electromagnetic theory or
> realizes the dualities between magnetic and electric interactions. It's not
> clear to me that he's ever used motor/generator equations such as these: Vm
> = Kb*wm + Rm*Im ; Tm=Kt*Im - Tf ; Kb=Kt.
>
> I hear lots of ambition and read unsubstantiated claims on his website, but
> basically, this is someone trolling for investment money. His "Star of
> David" motor invention description uses the classic hypnotic free-energy
> inventor mantra---I've seen this for over 25 years now, from Joseph Newman's
> free energy motors (including his 300+ page tome on its theory of operations
> and how his motor converted electron mass to energy directly with E=mc^2) to
> Bruce DePalma's "N-Machine" (which was nothing more than a permanent magnet
> homopolar motor/generator---highly efficient (94%+ possible), but claims of
> 300pct efficiency were never publicly demonstrated).
>
> Common to all of these invention claims are:
> (1) they claim something new and give a catchy new name to it (N-machine,
> Star Of David motor, etc.);
> (2) they give you just enough description or hyperbole to capture your
> imagination, but often smartly not enough to set off your smell alarm;
> (3) they make free-energy claims or use ambiguous claims that sound like
> free-energy claims, but then do not provide any theory to allow
> understanding, let alone verification of the claims;
> (4) they almost always try to personalize the machine and convince the
> audience that they are a genius and that this came out of some divine
> inspiration (an aha! Moment) that came out of years of exploration or try to
> establish a history of being a genius;
> (5) they usually have built only a couple of prototypes and make wild claims
> as to performance and applicability before having tested anything, let alone
> provided results that are verifiable;
> (6) they often claim patents were applied for or are pending (or were
> rejected because the Patent Office isn't "open minded"), but when someone
> else attempts to verify the claim, nothing comes up (as in this case---try
> googling his "Patent Pending" No.12/504,309.;
> (7) they never have products available to test, let alone sell, but are
> always looking for investors; finally,
> (8) when criticized, they claim you are either an agent, a spy or just don't
> have the training, experience or vision to understand what their device
> does. Or more often they claim that they are tapping into an energy field
> that the current laws of physics cannot explain at this time---eg. Joseph
> Newman's claimed that his motor's armature had such a long length that when
> switching current fast enough into the winding, electrons didn't have a
> enough time to get to the other end of the coil before the current was
> switched again. He postulated that the electrons were being annihilated in
> the coils and their energy (E=mc^2) was being liberated----of course, he
> never provided any verifiable proof of this. In over 20 years, I have never
> heard of Newman's switched motor technology being put to use.
>
> I am open minded on free energy in general, but based on 2 decades of
> reviewing such claims (some actually interesting---like the N-machine), I
> have a very low tolerance for free energy claims that are thinly veiled
> attempts at getting funding. It doesn't take too many guys like this who
> talk a good story and suck venture capitalist dollars to sour the entire
> venture capital pool of funders from investing money into well founded novel
> motor/generator designs. For that reason alone, we should deny a forum for
> these guys. The sad truth is that it doesn't take much to get something
> patented. And even patented motor technology doesn't equate to good
> technology. I worked for a firm with motor patents and indeed the patented
> motor design and technology was both interesting and motor/generators made
> from their technology would fit some niches well. Yet in my opinion the
> motor designer didn't really understand the theory of motor/generators and
> made baseless comments that his design was better than all the other similar
> motors for every application. Patents only give a designer the right to sue
> others who violate the claims made. They do not ensure at all that
> something built to those claims would be any better than anything else out
> there.
>
> So for me, the smell test isn't passed when a designer focuses on themselves
> (as a genius savant), uses a catchy name for their device, provides no means
> to evaluate the efficacy of the device, has only built 1 or 2 prototypes, is
> attempting to look legitimate with catchy company and product names and is
> clearly trolling for money without establishing any way for skeptics to
> verify the claims. Let's not provide forums for these guys, no matter how
> local or legitimate sounding they are unless they pass the smell test.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Myles Twete, P.E. - EE and Control Systems
> Portland
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Oeva-list mailing list
> Oeva-list at oeva.org
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
>
>
> End of Oeva-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 12
> *****************************************
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390710/direct/01/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100125/380fad44/attachment-0001.html
More information about the Oeva-list
mailing list