[Oeva-list] Oeva-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 23
Jason Weitz
jason at frankencar.org
Tue Jan 26 14:09:21 PST 2010
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW3UVabrM-k
On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 2:05 PM, <oeva-list-request at oeva.org> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Oeva-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 21 Skepticism vs Rudeness
> (mark barthemer)
> 2. Re: Oeva-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 22 (Jason Weitz)
> 3. Carey's YouTube Video (Gene Climer)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 13:29:08 -0800
> From: mark barthemer <morbiusx1 at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Oeva-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 21 Skepticism
> vs Rudeness
> To: <oeva-list at oeva.org>
> Message-ID: <BAY136-W20EC58A71D22335B00DF10FB5E0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> I, for one, have said I would love to be proven wrong in my skepticism, &
> eat crow publicly. But I'm afraid there's little risk of that. I see
> nothing like lab test results - energy in vs energy out, etc. Just bland
> statements that the device increases 12v to 24v - so do things for sale at
> Radio Shack for $7. Talk of "SuperCharged electricity" doesn't inspire
> confidence, and the inventor's analogy to a radiator fan running after the
> car engine stops is probably more apt than he realizes - of course, it draws
> power from a battery. Show us some real experimental results on the website
> & it might be worth a demonstration. The guy's probably sincere, but
> there's no explanation of what it does & how the energy savings is achieved.
> Some numbers, please. I'd still love to be proved wrong, but I have some
> magnets to energize my gasoline in a drawer - they came with many promises &
> did nothing, as I expected. Fortunately, I paid $2 at a garage sale, to an
> initial buyer who pai
> d $150 for them.
>
> Mark Parthemer
>
> > From: oeva-list-request at oeva.org
> > Subject: Oeva-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 21
> > To: oeva-list at oeva.org
> > Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 12:00:08 -0800
> >
> > Send Oeva-list mailing list submissions to
> > oeva-list at oeva.org
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> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > oeva-list-request at oeva.org
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > oeva-list-owner at oeva.org
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> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Oeva-list digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. EV Community Burned (Jason Weitz)
> > 2. Re: EV Community Burned (jrenoe at formancetech.com)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 11:18:12 -0800
> > From: Jason Weitz <jason at frankencar.org>
> > Subject: [Oeva-list] EV Community Burned
> > To: oeva-list at oeva.org
> > Message-ID:
> > <1972f2d81001261118j39e7e370vaf8962f05a829752 at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > Okay, I have to say something here. I fully understand that the EV
> community
> > has been burned in the past. I fully understand that several companies
> and
> > individuals have given us a bad reputation with the outside world, and so
> I
> > understand that we should be careful what we claim as a community, lest
> more
> > criticism befall us. However, does nobody else understand the difference
> > between cautious skepticism and plain old rudeness? I've noticed on this
> > back and forth about the 3D motor/generator as well as on other EV forums
> > that the skepticism skips all decent human conversation and turns right
> into
> > severe and low-blowing hostility. Frankly, I don't like this community
> > anymore. I thought that the whole idea of being involved in the EV and
> > especially DIY EV fold was that we are pushing for new and innovative
> > technologies that make the world better. How do you react when someone
> tells
> > you that EV's are impractical? You know better, so why are we so hostile
> to
> > each other? For crying out loud, the guy's in Medford! So just civilly
> voice
> > your skepticism and request a demonstration! There's no need to jump down
> > someone's throat when they're honestly trying to make a difference.
> > Furthermore, all the brilliant, "respected engineers and physicists"
> should
> > know more than ANYBODY that science is constantly on the path of proving
> > itself wrong. "Accepted Science" is the most useless kind, because if we
> > accepted what we know now, we'd never learn anything new! So if you're a
> > smarty-pants engineer or scientist or whatever, get the heck off your
> > high-horse and go see for yourself. It absolutely amazes me that not one
> > person said, "Hey that would be really amazing if it works! What a major
> > step forward! Of course you can understand that I have my doubts, and I'm
> > sure you know that you have to be cautious with your claims, but I'd love
> to
> > see the machine in action for myself." It's time to stop fighting each
> other
> > and stop being such bloody jerks just because you're so smart your head
> > hardly has room for your ego. If we want to create change as a community,
> we
> > can't allow infighting. If it were up to me, I'd boot anyone from any EV
> > forum who behaved so atrociously.
> >
> > Jason
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> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 12:47:05 -0700
> > From: jrenoe at formancetech.com
> > Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] EV Community Burned
> > To: "Jason Weitz" <jason at frankencar.org>
> > Cc: oeva-list at oeva.org
> > Message-ID:
> > <
> 20100126124705.80f13dbd687fbabf16d86dafee65a1d0.93e028e72d.wbe at email05.secureserver.net
> >
> >
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> >
> > End of Oeva-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 21
> > *****************************************
>
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> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 13:35:26 -0800
> From: Jason Weitz <jason at frankencar.org>
> Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Oeva-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 22
> To: oeva-list at oeva.org
> Message-ID:
> <1972f2d81001261335r56cdfbf3saf5b4f685d8db44e at mail.gmail.com>
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>
> Carey,
>
> You are a fool! Anyone can see, through simple observation, that a ship
> traveling toward the horizon DISAPPEARS! Clearly, this indicates that the
> world has an edge, and to sail off it would be pure madness. Further, have
> you looked at the ground lately? It doesn't LOOK like a sphere! It doesn't
> feel round when I walk on it! All accepted science clearly demonstrates
> that
> the earth is indeed flat. To claim otherwise is pure nonsense. As a man of
> great intellect, I am most offended that you would suggest something so far
> beyond the laws of physics, something that so violates all the laws of
> nature, without so much as a shred of proof. Clearly you are mad. [?]
>
> Jason
>
> PS Thank you Scott, for writing a much more civilized criticism. This I
> welcome personally. It is the "overtones that you might be 'crazy'" that I
> felt were fully unnecessary. There's just no call for that.
>
> PPS Don, I don't know if you looked at the website at all, but he does have
> a prototype. Why not contact him (respectfully) and request a viewing?
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 14:05:02 -0800 (PST)
> From: Gene Climer <climer97007 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [Oeva-list] Carey's YouTube Video
> To: Theoldcars at aol.com, oeva-list at oeva.org
> Message-ID: <453519.10669.qm at web32201.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi Don,
> If you read Carey's?website, he has a link to a YouTube video.
> He shows a working prototype running and he makes certain claims.
> He has is a motor driving to two generators.
> He does generate a higher voltage (18V) and?this results in?higher current
> into his lightbulb.
> He seems to be sincere in thinking that this is some sort of revolutionary
> concept.
> He seems to draw conclusions from this experiment that do not make much
> sense to us.
> His language seems to indicate?that he?is getting more power output than he
> is putting in.
> Trouble is, he never bothers to compare "motor power in" versus "lamp power
> out".
> I don't know if he?understands the difference between the lamp load
> current, and the motor load current.
> He speaks about all of it in?very?obtuse language.
> I don't know if he is sincerely naive and?ignorant of what he is actually
> doing, or being intentionally deceptive, or?if he is just simply doing an
> ordinary thing and he is just?thinking it is really something cool or what?
> For example, people have been building?a 1 phase 220V AC motor to drive a 3
> phase AC generator, in order to run a 3 phase piece of equipment off of 1
> phase power for years. Seems like?Carey thinks his concept is similar?to
> this but novel enough in a way different than we are hearing him.
> I am leaving room?for any of the above to be true, except for making more
> power from less.
> Gino
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "Theoldcars at aol.com" <Theoldcars at aol.com>
> To: oeva-list at oeva.org
> Sent: Tue, January 26, 2010 1:17:42 PM
> Subject: [Oeva-list] Smell Test?
>
>
> Carey
>
> Should you be really surprised by any of this?
>
> You might as well?had said?you have invented an antigravity machine. That
> your?device will not fall from a ten story building when pushed off.
>
> Then take your idea or theory?and post it to an association?that?members
> make or are interested in?kit or home made?airplanes. That in my opinion
> would be a fair comparison.
>
> Until there was an actual?working example you should expect?lots of rain on
> your parade. If you believe in it build it and everything else would follow.
> What you have done is put the cart before the horse and its not receiving
> the reception you believe it should.
>
> Here is a link that is kind of interesting.?Some?recent?news that somewhat
> relates from the National Geographic.?
>
>
> http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/11/1111_051111_junk_patent.html
>
> I really do not have any more to comment.
>
> I wish you the best of luck.
>
> Don
>
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 1/26/2010 8:13:01 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> oeva-list-request at oeva.org writes:
> Message: 1
> >Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 07:27:54 -0800 (PST)
> >From: Carey Dahlen <carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com>
> >Subject: [Oeva-list] Smell Test?
> >To: Oeva-list at oeva.org
> >Message-ID: <644207.83158.qm at web506.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> >Smell Test?
> >I have never been attacked like this in all my life! I had to ask my self
> what in the hell is going on here. It has become quite clear I am not
> communicating effectively; this whole thing has hit a nerve, spiraling out
> of control.
> >?
> >I would never insult the intelligence of this worthy association.
> >I see a group of people who are trying to influence positive change in the
> electric vehicle industry in our region. I am also. I have only been a
> member of this group for a short time. I?ve read your messages, Like me, I
> see you are all problem solvers!
> >?
> >Damage Control! In order to stop the bleeding and put an end to all this
> nonsense, let me make the following crystal clear!
> >?
> >My design has absolutely nothing to do with the smoke and mirrors of so
> called ?Free Energy? or free energy machines period! I will not be
> associated with scams or be labeled as a charlatan! I am a hard working
> honest Christian man!
> >I have never even heard of Joseph Newman or Bruce DePalma. Nor, do I care
> what they do! or claim! it must be preposterous.
> >?
> >I should stop right here and let the dust settle!
> >But the amount of character assignation was way over the top. A man is not
> a man if he does not defend himself. To imply my work is not legitimate and
> that I am some sort of bottom feeder seeking to steal away funding is just
> plain wrong!
> >I am a legitimate researcher and will continue to do legitimate research!
> >If anything I have been na?ve.
> >?
> >My simple basic 3D design is based on mature electric motor and electric
> generator science working with-in the laws of physics and conservation.
> >It takes power to make power!
> >?
> >My design is 100% about increasing output efficiency with a new frame or
> platform, which will allow for more options in the field of Power
> Generation!
> >What is wrong with a hybrid motor generator?
> >?
> >I have no disclaimer. I will back up my claims. My story is my description
> of how I came up with the hybrid concept. The ?Star of David? configuration
> accurately lays out component locations, giving designers and builders an
> easy overview of the expandability of the machines design.
> >?
> >To date I have followed all the rules. After conceiving my hybrid design,
> I began to search the web and the USPTO?s data base to see if anyone had
> already patented this concept. I paid my patent attorney for a professional
> patent searcher. The professional search came up with about a dozen similar
> designs but, did not exclude me from moving forward. I then built my first
> prototype and used the data to draft my patent application. I have paid all
> the required fees and my patent documents will be published by the USPTO
> March 2010.
> >?
> >?
> >I will have my petition filed this week with the USPTO to take advantage
> of the pilot program for green technologies. I am actively seeking funding
> to take my design to the next level, full size working models that I can use
> to produce the needed data to substantiate or verify my claims. That?s how
> the system works!
> >?
> >I realize for the most part I did not communicate properly in the
> beginning.
> >Let the record show I was the one to introduce this new concept and shared
> my abstract with this group at no cost or obligation because I am excited
> about everything I have accomplished in this field!
> >?
> >I am Proud of all my accomplishments!
> >?
> >Sincerely,
> >?
> >Carey Dahlen, Master Electrician - General Supervising Electrician #5522S
> for the Great State of Oregon.
> >?
> >
> >
> >Carey Dahlen, CEO
> >EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC
> >3D Propulsion, LLC?
> >Website; evergreenelectricvehicles.com
> >Email; carey at evergreenelectricvehicles.com
> >Business; 541-227-9063
> >?
> >Copyright ??2009 EverGreen Electric Vehicles, LLC
> >All Rights Reserved.
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