[Oeva-list] EV charging considerations.
gfifield at onlinenw.com
gfifield at onlinenw.com
Sat Jul 24 20:18:00 PDT 2010
I can't disagree with your analysis.
However I'm still thinking that this range anxiety can be overcome with
smartphone or internet appliances combined with GPS.
I believe your the analysis of long distance travel is accurate, within
any realistic infrastructure improvements over the next year or two.
My wife often brings up this vacation issue.
I'll have to hide your email from her!
But seriously folks.
I believe that using a RCE, I just heard this term (Remote Combustion
Engine), could be good for the grid and power companies and the
environment. This doesn't bother me, (unless it is ENRON.) Grid balancing
using EVs is probably a great way to handle the problem of integrating
wind-power into the grid. With this experiment, the EV Project will expose
all of your issues. Let's get them up front and in our faces. . .Then we
can change/lobby-for what needs to be changed. It is unrealistic to expect
the unbridled range of ICE in reasonably priced EVs. I think we have been
oversold on conflating "freedom" with an ICE. (I detect this theme in your
scenario.) It is only because the infrastructure has been built around
this "freedom" model.
Imagine if the ICE never had been invented, the electric vehicles in the
early 20th century would have flourished and a whole infrastructure around
electric transportation would have been created? Every parking meter is a
Maybe the recharge model is wrong, and the battery exchange is right.
Maybe a trolley power system becomes the solution. Maybe the mass transit
or rail model with one way E-Zip cars is the solution for your long trips?
I have rather low expectation on battery life and degradation. I expect
that NISSAN will assume this risk in their warranty model. (The survey I
just took explored this extensively; I expect this is part of the delay;
figuring out the warranty details.) During that warranty time I expect
that battery technology and charging diversity will be improving.
So after a few years I expect the range to be 80 miles with 60 miles being
a comfort level before recharging. If it is less than that I expect a
replacement battery covered by warranty.
For Daily Commuting.
My worst commute was up to Camas, WA for 46 miles one way. My expectation
is that in such a commute I have access to a Level 2 charger at both ends.
So for me I still think that we are headed in the right direction. Away
from oil and toward renewable energy. Away from war and toward creativity.
> gfifield at onlinenw.com writes:
>> I looked at the Smart Charging doc Specifications and here is what is
>> "The Smart Charging Dock is designed to communicate with the grid and
>> consumers? homes into grid-connected smart charging hubs ? charging when
>> energy consumption is low, and delaying the charge when energy demand is
> The real winner here is the power company.
> 1) instead of spending your transportation fuel dollars with the
> gas station, you spend it with them.
> 2) The power company gets to tell you how much "fuel" you can have, and
> 3) The power company gets to avoid buying/using peak power generation fuel
> and plant. (And more importantly, they don't have to buy/build/permit new
> peak power generating capability!)
> According to a recent statistic, the top 10% of the power the power
> company generates, costs them 80% of the money they get from you. If
> they can shave that 10%, they get to pocket the profits!
> The 100 mile range quoted, depends on a specific driving profile. Let's
> say, for them moment that All you driving is on the optimum range curve.
> An ICE can easily do 400 miles in a day of driving. (At 55 mph, its less
> than 8 hours.) In that distance there will be one stop for gas, taking
> roughly 15 minutes.
> An equvilent trip by EV would start out with 100 mile range, in the
> drive probably 80 miles, before looking for a place to charge. Stopping
> an 80% charge... (If you are number one in line, 35 minutes. If you are
> 4 in line, common enough at gas stations, it's two and a half hours!). Now
> you have an 80 percent charge, so you will probably start looking for a
> charging station after 60 miles. Lets say for the sake of argument, you
> are number one at each charging station.
> 80 miles, 35 minutes charge, 60 miles, 35 minutes charge, 60 miles, 35
> charge, 60 miles. So.. 320 miles and about the same about of driving time.
> Assuming your hotel has a charging station waiting for you, you can repeat
> this the next day..
> Assuming that everything works out perfectly, you can expect an extra day
> on the road for every 4 days.
> And that assumes you never roll up to the charging station and somebody is
> already lined up for an 8 hour charge! Or even that you arn't number 4 in
> line for an 80% charge... or heaven forbid that the power company shorts
> your 8 hour charge while you sleep at the hotel.
> With gas stations, there is some competition for price. I'm not sure who
> will set the price at a road side charging station.
> You may ask "why only 60 miles?".. well.. look at your experience with an
> ICE.. Do you start looking for gas with just 5 miles left in the tank?
> Especially in an area where you don't know what's available for fuel?
> I'm not sure that EV charging stations will be "right on the highway".
> With real estate costs being what they are, near highway interchanges,
> likely that charging stations will be at "truck stop" sized facilities,
> are sometimes a mile or so off the road. With an EV parked for more than
> as long as a car parks at a gas pump, the number of "pumps" dedicated to
> will not be nearly as large as the number of gas pumps.
> In my opinion, EV's will only displace a small number of ICE miles... and
> probably very few ICE "units" because it's likely that families will have
> "one of each".
> With a 32 mile (each way) commute, a Leaf would be marginal at best. (Now
> if they could get it to 200 miles, on a short charge!.. :-) )
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