[Oeva-list] EV charging considerations
Theoldcars at aol.com
Theoldcars at aol.com
Sun Jul 25 15:56:52 PDT 2010
Electric power companies may increase their profits but would that really
be a bad thing?
Would we rather have electric providers increase their rates because of
poor energy management?
IMO it is far better to keep the development of power here in the United
States. The United Sates should reduce imports and oil would be a good place
to start. Utility power companies are going to need profits to improve the
power supply. I would much rather have this situation then oil companies
making record profits that will never be used to make us less dependent on oil.
I view a vehicle like a tool. You use the one that fits your needs and gets
the job done. The vast majority of people are driving local and their daily
trips are less than 50 miles. So the tool most drivers need is for local
transportation. If you only drive 300 miles a week 50 weeks of the year is it
really necessary to have a vehicle with 2800 miles in one week? An ICE may
go 400 miles with a 15 minute stop but is that what most drivers would do? No
lunch or going to the restrooms for 6 or 7 hours straight? If you have a
family or many other people in the car that is far less likely to happen. If I
had a 400 mile trip to stop for four thirty minutes charges I would use
that time improve the quality of the trip.
A four hundred mile trip daily trip. For most people this would be done
while on vacation or a rushed weekend. The best tool would be to just rent an
ICE in the size and style that meets your requirements. Regardless of how far
you drive on a two week vacation. For most people long trips are a very
small amount of the overall miles traveled in one year. Its important to keep
in mind the vast majority of the public driving is done local. So using a
limited expensive dirty resource would not be using the best tool for the job.
The Leaf could have been built with more range. It would have increased the
cost to have a larger pack for range that most people would not use on a
daily basis. It makes sense not to have a vehicle with far more range then
your going to use daily. For many that would be 40 miles or less and the Leaf
or Volt becomes a very good option.
Unless your needs exceed the capability of the Leaf there really is no need
for range anxiety a couple of times out of a year of driving. The United
States has five percent of the worlds population yet uses 25 percent of the
worlds oil. I don't agree the answer is to just to keep going into deeper debt
and pass this on to the next generation. There are other solutions and we
owe it to our nation and our children to use them if possible.
In 2003 I really did not know the capabilities of an EV but I wanted to
find out. In the past 6 years I have driven well over 60,000 miles all
electric. The vast majority of these miles were with an S-10 with 50 miles of range
with no three phase fast charging. In 2004 I stopped driving a 2000 Tahoe
with 40,000 miles and in 2010 it still has 40,000 miles. In 2004 I put the
vehicle on insurance storage and did not sell it. Looking back I would advise
anyone to just sell their ICE and rent. What I lost in the depreciation alone
would have more than paid for any rental. If anyone does get an EV and keep
your old car just remember you might not use it very much anymore.
Anyone else have any stories of daily EV use?
In a message dated 7/25/2010 12:00:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
oeva-list-request at oeva.org writes:
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 13:50:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Steve's Account" <stevel at fern.com>
Subject: [Oeva-list] EV charging considerations.
To: oeva-list at oeva.org
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1007241259580.18142 at hub.fern.com>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
gfifield at onlinenw.com writes:
> I looked at the Smart Charging doc Specifications and here is what is
> "The Smart Charging Dock is designed to communicate with the grid and turn
> consumers? homes into grid-connected smart charging hubs ? charging when
> energy consumption is low, and delaying the charge when energy demand is
The real winner here is the power company.
1) instead of spending your transportation fuel dollars with the
gas station, you spend it with them.
2) The power company gets to tell you how much "fuel" you can have, and
3) The power company gets to avoid buying/using peak power generation fuel
and plant. (And more importantly, they don't have to buy/build/permit new
peak power generating capability!)
According to a recent statistic, the top 10% of the power the power
company generates, costs them 80% of the money they get from you. If
they can shave that 10%, they get to pocket the profits!
The 100 mile range quoted, depends on a specific driving profile. Let's
say, for them moment that All you driving is on the optimum range curve.
An ICE can easily do 400 miles in a day of driving. (At 55 mph, its less
than 8 hours.) In that distance there will be one stop for gas, taking
roughly 15 minutes.
An equvilent trip by EV would start out with 100 mile range, in the morning,
drive probably 80 miles, before looking for a place to charge. Stopping for
an 80% charge... (If you are number one in line, 35 minutes. If you are
4 in line, common enough at gas stations, it's two and a half hours!). Now
you have an 80 percent charge, so you will probably start looking for a
charging station after 60 miles. Lets say for the sake of argument, you
are number one at each charging station.
80 miles, 35 minutes charge, 60 miles, 35 minutes charge, 60 miles, 35
charge, 60 miles. So.. 320 miles and about the same about of driving time.
Assuming your hotel has a charging station waiting for you, you can repeat
this the next day..
Assuming that everything works out perfectly, you can expect an extra day
on the road for every 4 days.
And that assumes you never roll up to the charging station and somebody is
already lined up for an 8 hour charge! Or even that you arn't number 4 in
line for an 80% charge... or heaven forbid that the power company shorts
your 8 hour charge while you sleep at the hotel.
With gas stations, there is some competition for price. I'm not sure who
will set the price at a road side charging station.
You may ask "why only 60 miles?".. well.. look at your experience with an
ICE.. Do you start looking for gas with just 5 miles left in the tank?
Especially in an area where you don't know what's available for fuel?
I'm not sure that EV charging stations will be "right on the highway".
With real estate costs being what they are, near highway interchanges, it's
likely that charging stations will be at "truck stop" sized facilities,
are sometimes a mile or so off the road. With an EV parked for more than
as long as a car parks at a gas pump, the number of "pumps" dedicated to
will not be nearly as large as the number of gas pumps.
In my opinion, EV's will only displace a small number of ICE miles... and
probably very few ICE "units" because it's likely that families will have
"one of each".
With a 32 mile (each way) commute, a Leaf would be marginal at best. (Now
if they could get it to 200 miles, on a short charge!.. :-) )
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