[Oeva-list] Level 1 vs Level 2 "battles"

Myles Twete matwete at comcast.net
Wed Dec 28 11:06:33 PST 2011

Steve said: "Given a choice between several happy Leaf owners or one happy
Level 1 owner, I'd opt for the Level 2. And it doesn't have the abuse
potential of a 110v outlet."

Read that to yourself 8 times and think about it.
The abuse potential has increased, not decreased.  Whereas several EVs could
potentially charge from a single 110v Shorepower charge station, the J1772
Level 2 stations support just 1 or 2 vehicles.  Sure, they COULD get charged
and move on, but what of the campus- or corporate garage parking scenario
where the owner intends to and desires to park, plug-in and not return for
several hours, regardless of the level of charging.  In those cases,
charging might end in 2 hours, yet the owner keeps his car there for another
6 inconveniencing potentially more than 1 other EV owner.  On the other
hand, if the owner is responsible, he needs to break from his business or
school and go move his car when it gets charged, inconveniencing himself.
The Level 1 stations are more convenient and need to be there to support
those who don't want to inconvenience themselves or others.

Where I work, the switch to Level 2 charging is particularly bad: Whereas
6-8 EVs were typically out there charging on a given day when the Shorepower
units were there, now that the Chargepoint units are in place, only 4 cars
can charge at a time---there are probably 15 or more Leafs alone at the
facility I work at.  Those charge spaces are at the furthest reaches of the
parking lot, meaning that to be responsible, the owner that is lucky enough
to get there first needs to estimate when the car will be charged, break
from meetings or other activity and take a 10-minute walk out to the car,
disconnect, pack up the cord (in the case of a Chevy Volt), move the car and
then return to work.  And the next guy---what does he do?  Does he keep
checking thru the morning to see if a spot has freed up or can he log into a
website to see if a space is free yet?  Worse, say I buy a $200 J1772
adapter and drive my Milburn to work one day.  If I'm lucky, I get to plug
in and charge.  But my 110v/220v charger can deliver but 1400watts
regardless.  If my pack needs 10kwh of power returned, I'm going to be
plugged into this Level 2 charger and hogging it for 7 hours!  With the
Level 1 chargers and abundant outlets, I didn't piss anyone off...with the
new ones and but 4 plugs, there's bound to be conflict.  OTOH, the fact that
charging will cost $1-$2/hour or so, most of those who used the Level 1
chargers will now just avoid the charge stations altogether and fill up at
home.  The sight of charging stations going unused does not help to promote
EVs when folks know that public investment went into them.

Aren't 110v outlets still ubiquitous at parking spaces in cold climates so
people can plug their radiator heaters in?


-----Original Message-----
From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On
Behalf Of Steve's Account
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 10:28 PM
To: oeva-list at oeva.org
Subject: [Oeva-list] Level 1 vs Level 2 "battles"

Scott Hippe  wrote:
> I don't think Leaf owners are against level 1
> Availability. It is so easy to provide a 120v
> outlet on the pedestal of a level 2 charger.
> And the level 1 vehicle doesn't even have to
> occupy that space, he/she could be parked
> 25 or more feet away with an extension cord. 
> It must be pure greed of the charging
> station owner/operator not to provide a free
> 120 v outlet for the occasional level 1 user.

Actually, it may be that very 120 v. outlet that is the death
knell for the Level I charging stations. Since it is such a
common interface, it may be being abused by folks who want power for
things other than EV charging.

It may also be the case that the charing station owners see that they
can have several level 2 customers frequent their business because 
the charging cycles are shorter, with the same investment in parking
space and infrastructure that a level 1 customer will use for an
entire day.

Given a choice between several happy Leaf owners or one happy Level 1
owner, I'd opt for the Level 2. And it doesn't have the abuse potential
of a 110v outlet.

Suggesting a change to a not-common plug with interaction between the
charger and the outlet as a new "standard" for level 1 charging might be 
a way to keep the level 1 stuff in place. But it still doesn't address 
the guy who drops his car off in the morning at the "fred myers" (or 
any other charging site) and goes off to work, blocking access to the 
customers of the company who provided the charging station.

In some locations, parking spaces are the limiting factor in how many
customers you can get thru a retail establishment. And you can be
"just as green" by encouraging lots of customers, as catering to


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