[Oeva-list] Update on HB2328
Theoldcars at aol.com
Theoldcars at aol.com
Wed May 4 22:57:49 PDT 2011
I disagree about including the batteries as part of the fuel cost for these
One an ICE motor or transmission can fail at 100,000 or 150,000. I have had
to replace transmissions at 50,000 miles and even one motor. This is out
of small fleet of ICE vehicles and they always seem to last at least until
the warranty is up.
An EV AC traction motor is good for about one million miles. The gear
reduction is a sealed unit and will not fail for a very long time. So the EV
drive would save you the cost of replacing motors at 200,000 miles.
Yes the replacement cost of the pack is expensive but it is about the cost
of the 5 engines you don't have to buy for one million EV miles. Even
after one million miles your only service work would be to replace two bearings.
This would be far less costly then any ICE rebuild. Even if you had to
replace the whole AC drive and gear reduction unit the cost would be a bargain
compared to an ICE motor. As an example the drive pod for an S-10 EV which
includes the motor was brand new in the box 1500 dollars list price from
GM. They sold out several years ago. I suspect a few EV guys figured out
what a bargain that was for an EV project.
Also I would not be surprised if the batteries last 150,000 to 200,000
miles if not abused. They would be useable for even longer if you can get by
with less range. Right now I am driving an S-10 with 12 year old NiMH
batteries. Range is about 50 miles but they just refuse to die as long as you
treat them kindly. The RAV4 EV under the right conditions using the same
chemistry is good for 150,000 miles. The Leaf should far exceed the cycle life
of these older NiMH modules.
I do agree that pack costs will come down. Also it is most likely that by
the time a replacement pack is needed battery technology is going to be
Not sure if this changes your point of view but some things you might
In a message dated 5/4/2011 6:30:50 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
oeva-list-request at oeva.org writes:
Date: Wed, 04 May 2011 06:26:50 -0700
From: Scott Hippe <scott.hippe at me.com>
Subject: [Oeva-list] Fwd: Update on HB2328
To: oeva-list at oeva.org
Message-ID: <A25ED67A-A467-4BBB-A19C-C4CC6256A449 at me.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
In my opinion, EV fuel is the battery + electricity. The battery is
"prepaid fuel". For a Leaf, if you assume battery cost is $10,000.00 and you
100,000 miles on a battery, your total fuel cost over 100,000 miles is
$10,000.00 + $2,000 (electricity). That works out to $.12/mile. If you
your battery well, and your battery lasts more than 100,000 miles, well
thats just an additional benefit. We also assume that when it is time to
replace the battery (essentially prepay more fuel), the battery cost will
be much lower due to technology and mass production.
To compare an ICE, 30 mpg * $4.00/gallon = $.12/mile as well. But it is
easy to assume that over the next 8 years that the price of gas will
Also there are all kinds of social costs produced by the ICE during the
100,000 miles that are not accounted for. And the 3333 gallons of gas that
ICE uses over 100,000 miles required a significant amount of electricity
to produce and deliver which is of course also hidden from view.
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