[Oeva-list] Update on HB2328

Theoldcars at aol.com Theoldcars at aol.com
Wed May 4 22:57:49 PDT 2011

Hello Scott
I disagree about including the batteries as part of the fuel cost for these 
One an ICE motor or transmission can fail at 100,000 or 150,000. I have had 
 to replace transmissions at 50,000 miles and even one motor. This is out 
of  small fleet of ICE vehicles and they always seem to last at least until 
the  warranty is up. 
An EV AC traction motor is good for about one million miles. The gear  
reduction is a sealed unit and will not fail for a very long time. So the EV  
drive would save you the cost of replacing motors at 200,000 miles. 
Yes the replacement cost of the pack is expensive but it is about the cost  
of the 5 engines you don't have to buy for one million EV miles. Even  
after one million miles your only service work would be to replace two bearings. 
 This would be far less costly then any ICE rebuild. Even if you had to 
replace  the whole AC drive and gear reduction unit the cost would be a bargain 
compared  to an ICE motor. As an example the drive pod for an S-10 EV which 
includes the  motor was brand new in the box 1500 dollars list price from 
GM.  They sold out several years ago.  I suspect a few EV guys figured  out 
what a bargain that was for an EV project.
Also I would not be surprised if the batteries last 150,000 to 200,000  
miles if not abused. They would be useable for even longer if you can get  by 
with less range. Right now I am driving an S-10 with 12 year old NiMH  
batteries. Range is about 50 miles but they just refuse to die as long as you  
treat them kindly. The RAV4 EV under the right conditions using the same  
chemistry is good for 150,000 miles. The Leaf should far exceed the cycle life  
of these older NiMH modules. 
I do agree that pack costs will come down. Also it is most likely that by  
the time a replacement pack is needed battery technology is going to be 
greatly  improved. 
Not sure if this changes your point of view but some things you might  
In a message dated 5/4/2011 6:30:50 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
oeva-list-request at oeva.org writes:

Message:  3
Date: Wed, 04 May 2011 06:26:50 -0700
From: Scott Hippe  <scott.hippe at me.com>
Subject: [Oeva-list] Fwd:  Update on  HB2328
To: oeva-list at oeva.org
Message-ID:  <A25ED67A-A467-4BBB-A19C-C4CC6256A449 at me.com>
Content-Type:  text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

In my opinion, EV fuel is the  battery + electricity.  The battery is 
"prepaid fuel".  For a Leaf,  if you assume battery cost is $10,000.00 and you 
100,000 miles on a  battery, your total fuel cost over 100,000 miles is 
$10,000.00 + $2,000  (electricity).   That works out to $.12/mile.  If you  
your battery well, and your battery lasts more than 100,000 miles,  well 
thats just an additional benefit.  We also assume that when it is  time to
replace the battery (essentially prepay more fuel), the battery  cost will 
be much lower due to technology and mass production.

To  compare an ICE, 30 mpg * $4.00/gallon = $.12/mile as well.  But it is  
easy to assume that over the next 8 years that the price of gas will  
Also there are all kinds of social costs produced by the ICE  during the 
100,000 miles that are not accounted for.  And the 3333  gallons of gas that 
ICE uses over 100,000 miles required a significant  amount of electricity 
to produce and deliver which is of course also hidden  from view.


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