[Oeva-list] EVs to the rescue in Japan

Gary Graunke gary at whitecape.org
Thu May 12 15:13:59 PDT 2011


> gallon of gas carries more juice than a week's worth of roof-solar.
No, today I can easily fit 12KW of solar panels on the roof of my house and 
garage. In Oregon, halfway to the north pole, we still get 4 hours times the 
rating of the panels (on average--nothing in winter but we make up for it in 
the summer), or 48 KWH *per day*. They get 6 hours down in the bay area of 
California.
 
A US gallon is 33.4 KWH.

Solar panels are probably the most expensive way to generate the electricity, 
but one of the most efficient (20% of sunlight becomes electricity). Put that 
together with an 80% efficient (battery to wheels) EV, and you have a 16% 
efficient car running on sunlight. Biofuels capture at best only 1-2%, and then 
you lose 80-90% as heat in an ICE.

Andy Frank at UC Davis says that if you get a bank loan and throw the solar 
panels away every 30 years, it is still the equivalent of 50 cents/gal gas (no 
tax credits counted). Oh, and you also have in essence a futures contract for 
30 years on the price of electricity. Try getting that for oil. ;-)

Gary


On Thursday, May 12, 2011 01:57:05 PM cje at hevanet.com wrote:
> Dunno. I've got a ZAP truck -- I really like it and all, but there's no
> realistic way I could charge it with solar panels. ZAP sold a solar panel
> that fitted over the whole bed -- it was like 4x5' -- and according to
> the sales guy, the most the thing would do was keep your batteries topped
> off. It'd take more than a week to charge the thing, he said.
> 
> The most I get out of this truck is like 20mi, less when I've got a worn
> battery, and its max payload is 500lb. So, if there was a disaster and
> the ZAP was charged, I'd be stuck going less than 20mi with me, a
> passenger,and maybe a backpack. Compare that to my F-150, which if I had
> gas in it, has 4WD and can go approximately 400mi, carrying essentially
> unlimited cargo. Which rig do I want in a disaster?
> 
> I understand that there are some people who have solar arrays covering
> their whole roofs, and more power to 'em, (heh!) but still and all, a
> gallon of gas carries more juice than a week's worth of roof-solar.
> 
> All that said, sure, we do need to downsize and use more sensible cars.
> Why DOES everyone need hundreds of horsepower? My old Dodge Dart made do
> with 60 horses or something, and got about 20mpg. Now Toyotas come with
> 200HP and get 30mpg -- why? Build 'em with 60HP and lighten them up.
> 
> Not arguing with you on the downsizing thing. I'm just saying that in a
> disaster, give me something I can use to get far, far away, and fast.
> 
> Curt
> 
> > Curt, this is true as long as cars insist on having 200 to 300 horses in
> > front of it.  There was a time when a man was lucky to have one.  Four
> 
> or
> 
> > six to pull a carriage was considered royalty (or a stage coach
> 
> perhaps),
> 
> > but you see my point.  Wall St. with its The Bigger The Better
> 
> brainwashing
> 
> > is destroying our world.  Our greed for more power than the next guy is
> 
> not
> 
> > our best approach to transportation - or anything else for that matter.
> > What's the point of an EV saving the planet if it still needs to
> 
> consume way
> 
> > more energy that it takes to move one or two human bodies?  How often
> 
> do you
> 
> > tow tons of goods?  And couldn't you rent an ICE on those occations?
> 
> You
> 
> > guys are not much of a solution.  Your only changing the nature of the
> > problem.  Sure, there may be less gases emmitted, but, well, I'm sure
> 
> you
> 
> > have all heard the arguments about the trade offs and power souces and
> > pollution from other materials, blah, blah, blah.  But yes, Curt, as
> 
> long as
> 
> > we are hedonistically inclined to grasp and cling to our 250 horses, or
> 
> act
> 
> > like a spoiled child, then solar will never supply the energy.  Your
> 
> right.
> 
> > Jon Youngblood
> > 
> > jonyou at clear.net
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I kinda have to disagree -- the amount of energy it takes to run a car
> 
> is so
> 
> > much ridiculously more than any reasonably sized solar array could ever
> > provide..
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Curt Erickson
> > 
> > Lurkin'
> > 
> > > One more advantage of the EV over the ICE. The EV will only become
> > > 
> > > more important in times of disaster as more and more local
> 
> residential
> 
> > > and commercial solar arrays are installed across the country.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > http://nyti.ms/kbc5B6
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --
> > > 
> > > The EVs are coming
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Gary Munkhoff, Editor&  Publisher
> > > 
> > > Green Living Journal
> > > 
> > > P.O. Box 677
> > > 
> > > Cascade Locks, OR 97014
> > > 
> > > 541.374.5454
> 
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