[Oeva-list] Fwd: Fwd: target market

Scott Hippe scott.hippe at me.com
Sat May 21 14:05:42 PDT 2011

Just to clarify, I support public transportation and have 50 years experience using it.  I believe my statement
was less a generalization than your statement "Unfortunately, the area covered by their usage patterns is also the area best covered by public transit."  In Portland and most cities, public transportation works for people if they either live or work near a hub.
Otherwise, multiple transfers increases the travel time beyond acceptability.  As you get into the suburbs, buses may only
come once an hour if that, and may still require a walk of a mile or more afterward.  Beyond the daily commuting, public
transportation fails for the short hop needs, stopping off at the bank, going to a restaurant during lunch, etc ( except for
cities with large grid solutions like NYC.  I will never consider taxis as public transportation until they are all electric).

So more importantly, no solution works for everyone and we always need to keep an open mind about maintaining a mix of options
instead of insisting on just one.  I especially love trains and trolleys because they are all electric.  Driving an EV to a
'park and ride' would be an excellent solution for some who are far from a hub.

This country actually had much better public transportation from 1900 to 1950 than it does now.  After 1950, we started to put
'all of our eggs in one basket' by building freeways and single owner ICE vehicles.  The personal EV is only one of many
transportation options available to us now.  Most Americans want to see solutions to climate change and oil dependence, but only
if it does not inconvenience them too much.  So there will not ever be a 'one size fits all' solution.

There is no question that now that I am an EV owner, I talk very enthusiastically about it.  But in reality, I support all
technologies that will reduce our usage of fossil fuels for transportation.


Begin forwarded message:

> From: Myles Twete <matwete at comcast.net>
> Date: May 21, 2011 1:22:13 PM PDT
> To: 'Scott Hippe' <scott.hippe at me.com>
> Subject: RE: [Oeva-list] Fwd: target market
>> "Even if you could make it [public transport] work, it takes at least
> twice as long as an individual car."
> That generalization won't fly, Orville...sure, as with anything, it all
> depends.  I commuted for a year from near Precision Cast Parts to Intel's
> HF1.  If I drove, it took between 40- and 70-minutes, averaging about
> 50-minutes.  But that made little sense.  Why?  Because I could take 2
> busses and a Max train and do the same trip in 60- to 90-minutes, averaging
> about 75-minutes---this included a nice little walk at each end.  And that's
> with a walk and 2 busses in addition to the max train---most folks within
> the transit solution mappings don't have it as bad as we do.  With less than
> an hour extra per day to use public transport vs driving, it was a no
> brainer for me---ride and relax---and on days with traffic, the transport
> time was less than driving---that's a happy day.
> Portland Metro area has a pretty exceptional transportation really----try
> it, you might like it...and if it doesn't work by itself, think outside the
> box and add a bike, skateboard, shuttle van (e.g. between plants at Intel),
> walk, etc.
> I've heard lots of excuses for folks not to ride the mass transit---mostly
> they come from some prejudice or not placing any value on the exercise and
> relaxation associated with riding mass transit.
> Off soapbox-
> -Myles
> -----Original Message-----
> From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On
> Behalf Of Scott Hippe
> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 12:54 PM
> To: oeva-list at oeva.org
> Subject: [Oeva-list] Fwd: target market
> Public transportation in most cities has never been able to pick me up at
> home and bring me to the office.  Even if you could make
> it work, it takes at least twice as long as an individual car.  New York
> City, San Francisco and Chicago may be exceptions, but I
> don't live there.
> Perhaps the future of public transportation would be autonomous EVs that
> pick you and drop you off right where you want to go
> (think Johnny Cab from the movie Total Recall).  But I doubt I will see that
> in my lifetime.  Meanwhile, I have my Leaf which is
> the next best thing available.
> Begin forwarded message:
>> From: Steve's Account <stevel at fern.com>
>> Date: May 21, 2011 11:47:15 AM PDT
>> To: oeva-list at oeva.org
>> Subject: [Oeva-list] target market
>> Tracy writes:
>>> What Scott said goes ditto for me. I have never used a public charging 
>>> station so far and doubt I will. I charge at home at night while sleeping
>>> and on rare occasions during the day.
>>> I did not buy my Leaf to drive across country, or even across state. 
>>> I wanted an all electric car that was capable of freeway driving and did 
>>> not look like something made for a clown to drive in a circus. 
>> I do think that Scott and Tracy are correct in their assessment of the
>> "right fit" for the current crop of EV's.
>> Unfortunately, the area covered by their usage paterns is also the 
>> area best covvered by public transit.
>> One sad observation about highly efficient vehicles is that they often
>> sell to folks who already have highly efficient vehicles and are looking
>> to get "just that little bit better."
>> Had the target market been a 200 mile range with charging at home, they 
>> would have gotten a demographic that has less access to public transit
>> and drives more miles per year. It's these folks that will, by using
>> an EV have a bigger impact on fuel consumption, than someone who used
>> little fuel to start with.
>> Steve
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