[Oeva-list] Budget PHEV conversion suggestions sought

Greg Long greglongoregon at gmail.com
Mon Apr 2 01:24:44 PDT 2012


It can get rapidly out of the budget range, but a very lightweight (if
not the safest thing around) kit car with an aero body and a lithium
batt pack could be an attractive option.  Sort of like a slightly
smaller poor man's Jaguar CX-75. Lead-acid is affordable, but I have a
lead-acid foot, so a 0-60 in 12sec car would be a painful compromise
for something with a lot of work invested in.  0-60 in 7sec for a low
sports car would be a much more effective PHEV promo.

Maybe I'm just  supporting the old argument that there's little that a
lot of time and money can't solve, Hence it's still more economical to
drive a highly efficient (by 1990's standards) pollutionmobile.

Does anyone foresee the various li-ion battery technologies coming
down in price sooner than later?  It seems the only way cars will get
lighter is more costly materials (a number of EAA guys have composite
projects, but RV's are still popular, and they're steel/aluminum with
360 cu in. 4cyl's mostly). They're not likely to get much smaller
given the rapidly increasing average U.S. driver and passenger weight,
but some newer ICE technologies appear to have impressive small
displacement output, such as Ford's 120hp 1.0L 3cyl, or the 1.5L 233hp
3cyl in the CX-75 (they were originally going with two small
turbines).

And then there's the weight-adding safety requirements to protect us
from gas-guzzling SUV's driven by drivers pre-occupied with their
GPS's and smartphones... but I digress. Maybe cabin-class electric
motorcycles such as the E-tracer will catch on someday way down the
line.  We've come a long ways since my mother did an article on the
CitiCar in the Sep 1976  "Oak Hills Oracle" - a small community
monthly she owned and operated.

Green Car Reports is probably right. EV adoption will be a long time coming.

Thanks, guys, I appreciate the input and discussion.

Cheers,
Greg, Beaverton

On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 6:24 PM, Myles Twete <matwete at comcast.net> wrote:
> So that’s nice…physics still works then:
>
>
>
> Work = Force * Distance
>
> And
>
> Force = Power * Time / Distance
>
>
>
> From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On
> Behalf Of Lawrence Winiarski
> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 3:40 PM
> To: Lawrence Winiarski; gfifield at onlinenw.com; mike overton
> Cc: oeva-list at oeva.org
> Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Budget PHEV conversion suggestions sought
>
>
>
> Funny..I just noticed for the first time that W-hours/mile is actually a
> force.
>
>
>
> 200 wh/mile is 200 joules/sec*3600 sec/1609 meters = 447 joules/meter = 447
> newtons.
>
> So to convert w-h/mile to newtons, just multiply by 2.24 (or about 9/4)
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> If we don't halt population growth with justice and compassion, it will be
> done for us by nature, brutally and without pity - and will leave a ravaged
> world.
> Nobel Laureate Dr. Henry W. Kendall 023934
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski at yahoo.com>
> To: "gfifield at onlinenw.com" <gfifield at onlinenw.com>; mike overton
> <mikeov1 at gmail.com>
> Cc: "oeva-list at oeva.org" <oeva-list at oeva.org>
> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 1:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Budget PHEV conversion suggestions sought
>
>
>
> What makes you think he was confusing KW with KWh?
>
> He just made the calculation in a different way.
>
> Watt-hours/mile * mile/hour = Watts
>
>
>
> From: "gfifield at onlinenw.com" <gfifield at onlinenw.com>
> To: mike overton <mikeov1 at gmail.com>
> Cc: oeva-list at oeva.org
> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 1:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Budget PHEV conversion suggestions sought
>
>
> Hi,
> Don't confuse KW-Hours with KW.
> For example while on the flat and level and going 60MPH my LEAF says it is
> pulling about 20KW.
> If I keep driving like that I might last one hour before getting low on
> power. (Practical 20KW-H in the 24KW-H battery pack).
>
> 20KW-Hours consumed out of the 24KW-H battery pack.
> If I drive only for 1/2 hour then 20KW X 1/2 Hour = 10KW-H
>
> So if you had a 20KW generator you could keep going until you ran out of
> gas for the generator.
> (100% efficiency assumed).
>
> Bob Simpson was working on a range extender for EVs,
> http://old.nabble.com/EVDrive-News-td32837285.html
> http://goo.gl/3kOhA
>
> Gene
>
>
> With a smaller profile car like the MG> Greg,
>> You say that you do not think you need a powerful generator, but if you
>> need 300w/h per mile, then at 60MPH you need 18KW of generator.  Most cars
>> are above 300w/h per mile.
>>
>> There was someone at the last meeting that was talking about hybrid
>> conversions  - but I did not get his name.  I have heard that Xtreme power
>> is working on hybrid conversion systems for F150s and Jeeps, but not for
>> small cars.
>>
>> Not very sporty but there are several vendors for plug-in kits you can add
>> to a used Prius.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 10:25 PM, Greg Long
>> <greglongoregon at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> The OEVA social media editor suggested I send a message to the list, I
>>> also posed this today on electricforum.
>>>
>>> Bascially I'm seeking advice for a budget PHEV conversion project. As
>>> such, my minimum requirement list is quite low:
>>>
>>>    Small, sporty design. An older RX-7 or MG, etc. would be fine, a
>>> tiny kit car would be great. Something light and efficient.
>>>    2 seats for myself and a passenger 300lbs combined
>>>    Small amount of baggage space, perhaps 50 lbs min OK.
>>>    Performance not critical, so 0-60 in 13s OK (solo), 75mph top
>>> speed OK, 6% grade at 45mph important at gross (hwy 26), OK to start
>>> the gen.
>>>    Lead acid
>>>    electric range 12 mi
>>>    Combined range 180mi
>>>    250w (peak) audio system with 8" sub my only luxury must. AC not
>>> needed.
>>>    Ceramic heater needed, OK to preheat on AC
>>>    Generator need not be very powerful , enough to maintain 55mph on
>>> the flats with positive charge. Diesel desirable so I can burn
>>> biodiesel when available.
>>>    120v charging most the time on a single 15amp circuit
>>>    Stick shift if not fixed gear
>>>
>>> I follow a lot of EV news, including Green Car Reports, Oregon EVA,
>>> Plug-in-America, Slashdot, and a lot of mass-reported news on the
>>> issues.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Greg - Beaverton
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Oeva-list mailing list
>>> Oeva-list at oeva.org
>>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
>>>
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