[Oeva-list] FW: Think EV's in the news.

Gary Graunke gary at whitecape.org
Mon Aug 20 13:22:18 PDT 2012

Just for the record, one can go twice as far for the same amount of natural
gas if you give to PGE, incur the transmission line losses and charging
losses, and use an electric car than you can by using natural gas in ICE
such as the one Honda makes. That's because the big combined cycle
generation plan is much more efficient than the tiny portable ICE in your

See the electrification coalition EV roadmap document for this and other
http://www.electrificationcoalition.org/policy/electrification-roadmap   see
section 1.5.1 on pages 51 and 52.

Also, we are still not serious about electric cars. If so, we would have
cars with swappable batteries and battery swap stations, such as the better
place ones in Israel. Automakers that make profitable gas cars don't want
durable, low maintenance electrics to erode the cash cow too quickly. 
This is not a technology problem--it is a lack of resolve.


-----Original Message-----
From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On
Behalf Of Steve's Account
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 10:33 PM
To: Rhonda Walton
Cc: oeva-list at oeva.org
Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Think EV's in the news.

On Sun, 19 Aug 2012, Rhonda Walton wrote:

> Can you say designed to fail?
> Sure you can.

If so, where were the factors which predisposed it to failure?

It had a huge financial boost from the state and federal governments.

They already had a "product" ready to sell. (No long R&D period to weather
while you get ready to sell product.)

It had suppliers ready to tool up to make batteries.

It had a ready work force, already trained in skills useful for the
automotive industry.

>From the local point of view, there is hardly an area with better 
infrastucture than Oregon. Oregon's relatively mild climate lends itself to
not requiring heat or AC for at least some of the year.

Our topography is "relatively" friendly to EV's.. Not as flat as Florida..
but not as hot, either!

The only thing banks are falling all over thesemves to lend money on is

We have some of the best recharging infrastucture in the US.. Some of it
still "free".

If, from this position, your market acceptance is so poor that an
established company with a "big tail wind" fails.. What is the hope for
other companies?
> But EV's will succeed in spite of them because we will promote local 
> jobs,
> 2 cents a mile, renewable energy, smart grid, luxury ride, no wars for 
> the another countries natural resources, and so on.

(Local jobs? Nissan makes Leaf's in Japan.. Volt's in Mich.. Think's in
Scandanavia.. humm.. not my idea of local.. :-)

There are certainly other technologies which have many of the features you

Take for instance, compressed natural gas. It's locally produced. We have
the infrastructure to move the fuel. It avoids the conversion from fuel to
rotory motion, to electricity, to the transmission grid with all of it's
losses, to batteries, and finally back to rotory motion again. (It's the
same fuel that is becoming more common in electricity generation!)

Most cars can be converted to run on CNG. You can easily achieve 350 mile
range on one fill up.

Existing cars can be retrofit with CNG systems.

And, if similar investments in CNG fueling stations to those spent on EV
charging infrastructure are made, existing gas stations can be converted to
act as fueling points.

With Nissan throttling the production of Leafs due to lack of demand, I
think EV's are in for rough sledding.

If what was tried for Think is "designed to fail".. I'm not sure how to


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