[Oeva-list] Mr. Zehner's article

Dima Kukushkin dimakukushkin at gmail.com
Tue Jul 30 11:11:00 PDT 2013

I see bit of truth in "unpopular in this group" side of story.
In addition I always question statement that "EV runs on clean energy".
That is similar to power companies offering you clean power at extra $$,
here is why:

As long as US is burning coal/oil to generate any electricity - every EV
purchased does increase burn of coal/oil at power plants.  ONLY if we would
be generating 100% of power from renewables - newly produced EV won't be
causing extra burn (there may be exceptions as always, like if specific
city has excess of hydro power at night and extra EV charging will only
cause turbine to spin "faster" at night than it would otherwise.

With all that - I still LOVE my LEAF and dream of Tesla


On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Steve's Account <stevel at fern.com> wrote:

> > I hope someone is fashioning a response to the anti-EV interview with
> Ozzie
> > Zehner on "Here & Now" this morning.  He can no longer call himself a
> > conservationist.
> http://hereandnow.wbur.org/2013/07/29/electric-cars-green
> >
> >
> >
> > Nick Galaday
> Unfortunately, I believe that Mr. Zehner might just be the
> "conservationist"
> in this case. I'm afraid that it's the EV drivers who are the "wastrels" in
> this case.
> It's a position I've held after looking at the issues over a long period
> of time.
> As attractive as EV's appeared to be, the reality is, they just arn't
> THAT MUCH BETTER than the existing alternatives.
> I know it's hard to accept that the technology that you have spent
> your hard earned money on, hoping that you are doing the right
> thing, isn't panning out.. And I know that my "position" isn't
> a popular one in this group.
> I do think that all the subsidies that have been spent on EV's
> to date, were probably a good idea.. because we needed to see,
> at scale, what EV's can do.
> We can't, and won't be able to, in the forseeable future,
> produce enough clean power to shift the transportation energy
> expenditures from the existing oil based fuel to the electricity
> grid.
> Photovoltaics aren't living up to their hype. Their cost has been
> artificially driven down.. but at the same time the pannel reliability
> and output is actually getting worse!
> Environmentally responsible panel manufacture doesn't seem to
> be possible. And many of the US based panel manufacturers are
> going out of business.
> And photovoltaics generate power when the sun shines, which is
> exactly out of phase with the transportation power demand.
> The power companies have admitted that "clean power" sold to the
> public is a fraud. They can't get enough clean power to meet the
> existing demand. (and yes, they claim to be spending the extra
> money you send them to try to "develop" clean power... so it
> might help, some time in the future.. but it's not looking
> good.) But.. until they ACTUALLY can produce the power, when
> it's needed, the "green-ness" of EV's is seriously in question.
> I realize that, now that commercial EV's are availble, that OEVA's
> mission has morphed from being a "support group for EV hobbiests"
> into a "marketing organization" for EV manufacturers and
> ancilliary services.. This seems to be a normal progression of
> things. Most people won't "make" something they can buy.
> Many of the EV support businesses have gone bust. This includes
> the parts suppliers, and the US based battery manufacturers etc.`
> (I just recycled a number of lead acid batteries. The price of
> scrap batteries has dropped by 1/2 in the last year.)
> This is not the trajectory you'd expect to see in a "successful"
> market segment.
> Unless some things change dramatically, and soon, I'm afraid
> Mr. Zehner might be right on target. We need cleaner batteries,
> lighter batteries, more efficient motors, more efficient charging
> systems, faster charging systems. And we need some breakthrus on the
> generation side.. like really clean, cheap power. Solar (photovoltaic)
> and wind arn't working well, yet.
> It's still interesting to watch and see how it develops. I don't
> think it's 100% clear whether EVs are the "way of the future" or
> as Mr. Zehner suggests, a detour.
> Steve
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