[Oeva-list] Mr. Zehner's article

Steve's Account stevel at fern.com
Tue Jul 30 16:30:52 PDT 2013

On Tue, 30 Jul 2013, Peter Hoeckel wrote:

> - I didn't say that EV subsidies are driving down the gas price; the gas subsidies are keeping down
> the gas price; and EVs certainly don't require the same amount of gas for electricity production as
> ICEs - please support that statement;

Actually, a lot of refineries recover heat from the process to do co-generation and actually
supply power to the grid with what would have otherwise been waste heat.

Now.. that's not to say that they don't consume some of the feedstock to refine the rest. But
they are very careful what they burn.. working to burn the stuff they don't have a market

> last time I looked, refineries use as much electricity to MAKE
> a gallon of gas as I use to drive 25 miles (except I don't use the gallon of gas);

> - Yes, we need energy storage (pumped, or batteries, or ...), in order to allow renewable energy to
> become a bigger part of our mix; and we need better distribution across the country (the wind is
> always blowing somewhere, not necessarily where it's needed);

Which makes the job of load dispatcher a nightmare.. especially when they can't count on getting
the megawatt hours they have been "promised". As it stands now, they have to have a certain
amount of "spinning" capacity, waiting to come on line.. and the more variable the supply,
the more standby capacity they need ready to come on line. The fast response time standby
supply is the most expenseive they have in their arsenal.

> - One reason that utilities are pushing for EVs is that the night-time charging is HELPING them run
> their power plants more efficiently;

Actually, it's the "sales" of the kwh that is used for transportation that they didn't otherwise
get, that is the real cherry. They weren't a player in that market.. now they are.. in a
time when "conservation" was cutting into their sales.

> - Dams can only generate electricity if they can "put it somewhere"; I realize that there are plenty
> of scenarios, but there is at least one where you have excess capacity that's being wasted, and much
> of that could have been used for EV charging.

Only if you can remotely control the charging time. Otherwise the charging cycle starts just
as you get home.. in time for the evening peak.

I do agree that we need to keep our domestic capacity to make pannels up, even if it
means putting tarriffs on imported pannels. We should have learned our lesson with 
rare earth mining... that foreign suppliers will be fickle.


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