[Oeva-list] Mr. Zehner's article.

Peter Hoeckel peter at hoeckel.com
Wed Jul 31 16:42:36 PDT 2013


@Eric: seems like the "waste your time" part won for me :)

@Steve: I'm below $0.02/mile for electricity.  50 miles per dollar.  Drive
1000 miles, throw in a $20. Even if you ignore the maintenance savings, go
ahead and find me an ICE that gets anywhere close.  If I drive it
aggressively, maybe I'll get down to 40 miles per dollar.  Charge during the
day?  Maybe I could get to 30 miles per dollar.  And that's assuming
charging losses, not just what the car claims.

They don't work for everybody, at least not yet.  They're more expensive to
drive in some places than others, but I'm not buying $0.15/mile (your
$0.126/mile for gas cars is ONLY counting the fuel, so I'm assuming the
$0.15/mile is ONLY counting the electricity).  

If you don't want one, don't buy one.

-----Original Message-----
From: oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org [mailto:oeva-list-bounces at oeva.org] On
Behalf Of Steve's Account
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 2:20 PM
To: Hansen, Chris
Cc: oeva-list at oeva.org
Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Mr. Zehner's article.

On Wed, 31 Jul 2013, Hansen, Chris wrote:

> Steve, I don't know where you are going with your personal transportation
requirements. 
> Mine are similar to yours but that was not the point of my post.
>
> Energy  = $$$s. My point was that EVs use much less energy to move 
> from point A to B then an ICE vehicle. That is a huge benefit from an 
> environmental and $$$ perspective. Yes, we still lack the 
> infrastructure to get this energy to every interstate exit and strip mall
in the US, but that's a separate issue that the $$$ and capitalism will sort
out.

Actually, the point is that EV's arn't cheaper on a national average..

The recent study says that it's about 15 cents per mile for electric.. and

CNG is about 11 cents per mile.

Electricity is only a penny a mile cheaper than hydrogen.. the last
polluting fuel of the bunch!

And a 30 mpg car, at today's gas prices costs 12.6 cents per mile.

<http://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/renewables/unclean-at-any-speed>

So the statement you make about "EV's use much less energy" at least on a
dollar basis isn't true.

Also.. if you are using the EV's own kw meter to declare that you can go one
mile on .3kw of energy.. that's .3kw from the battery.. not .3kw from the
original fuel source. There are all sorts of effiency issues between the
generating station and the road.

Read the article.. it's an eye-opener.

It talks about the total life cycle costs, not just the operating costs. And
for climatic impact, that's what counts.

Refining the rare earth elements needed for the magnets, and the copper
generates tremendous amounts of greenhouse gasses.

Using aluminum instead of steel for body parts so that you can get usable
range costs a bunch more.

It's not just the operating costs that matter, if you care about the
environment..

And if you care about national defense.. remember that most of the rare
earth metals come from China.. a country that just about owns the US based
on their investments in T-bills.

A lot of the copper used in the cables and the motor comes from overseas as
well.

I, too, care about what happens to this planet.. it's the only one around..
and there is no escaping what we dump.

Steve

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