[Oeva-list] Is OEVA really encouraging drinking and driving?

Eric Cha ericc at xenopi.com
Tue Apr 22 21:58:03 PDT 2014

Just to add to what Quinn said...

There is always an argument in any public forum for tolerating 
dissenting opinions.  However, how many people who ARE legitimately 
interested and enthusiastic about EV's get turned off by the trolls and 
LEAVE the list?  As a person who has moderated several different 
enthusiast online forums and email lists, I'm just pointing out the 
moderators need to consider the repercussions for doing nothing... The 
moderators of this list need to consider the balance.  Is it more 
important to "tolerate" trolls and lose list members because of those 
few trolls or is it more important to keep the people who are actually 
constructive members?

To be honest, I have repeatedly considered leaving this list because of 
the trolls.   In fact, I'm considering it right now.  Perhaps I'll start 
another EV list with more aggressive moderation. <shrug>



On 4/22/2014 9:45 PM, Quinn Sullivan wrote:
> I've patiently endured negative emails on here from stevel at fern.com 
> <http://fern.com> and calvinjean2 at comcast.net <http://comcast.net> for 
> a couple of years. Just read through some, and in my opinion, there's 
> a pattern of unproductive posts stating how EV's aren't good enough, 
> they only go 70 miles on a charge, the owners are freeloaders who 
> don't pay a fuel tax, high performance Tesla's horsepower achievements 
> are meaningless/inaccurate, they are a waste of money, and now that 
> the owners are criminals who drink to intoxication and drive.  Also, 
> that you're giving us a "dose of reality".  A lot of us started with 
> the reality of owning an EV that goes 35 miles on a charge on lead 
> acid batteries, lots of us live within 30 miles of our work and 
> school, I'd be thrilled to have 70 miles. I've heard all of these 
> arguments against EV's before.  Tesla has busted a lot of these 
> barriers with a fraction of the production numbers of the big 3, and 
> then gets bashed for being too expensive.  EV's just can't win with 
> some people and that's fine, but I prefer not to hear about that on an 
> EV promotion email group.
> There's also been advocating for natural gas over EV's, a 
> non-renewable resource that will dry up some day and leave us in the 
> same spot that standard gasoline did.  It's been stated that EV's run 
> dirty because the electrical grid is dirty, yet there's lots of 
> renewables making the grid cleaner every year and smart grid 
> technologies in the works that can work to discharge power, decreasing 
> peak power draws and charge at night.
> Saying negative things doesn't really help anything.  If you truly 
> care about EV's instead you'd look for or work towards a solution. 
> This is still a relatively new industry, but the most promising one. 
>  Combustion has had 100+ years to figure it out, and production 
> electric vehicles are very new in comparison, yet still better in a 
> lot of aspects, like cost of operation, being 90% efficient instead of 
> 20%, independence of petrol costs, as some of them are powered by 100% 
> solar power.  I like hearing about new revelations in the EV industry 
> and new milestones.
> I've studied battery technology long enough to be suspicious of any 
> claims of new battery technology, but there will be great revelations 
> in our future.  Graphene and other nanotechnology will some day power 
> our electric vehicles to go 1000 miles on a 100 lb battery pack that's 
> made from carbon and costs 1/4 of what Lithium batteries do, charged 
> in less than a minute, and I can not wait for that day.  But it takes 
> hard work and some time to get there.
> In my opinion, this falls into trolling defined below.  I can take a 
> dose of EV hatred once in a while, but this group is to help promote 
> EV's, not beat them down.  From the oeva website, "The Oregon Electric 
> Vehicle Association (OEVA) is a non-profit association of electric 
> vehicle enthusiasts. We *promote* electric vehicle education."  Maybe 
> there's a better email group to suit those who want to bash EV's 
> somewhere.  It's not that I want everyone to agree with me or the 
> majority of the group, it's just not productive.  If you hate EV's and 
> OEVA, I don't know why you bother.  Maybe try constructive criticism.
> In Internet slang <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_slang>, a 
> *troll* (/ <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English>? 
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English#Key>t 
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English#Key>r 
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English#Key>o? 
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English#Key>l 
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English#Key>/ 
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English>, / 
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English>? 
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English#Key>t 
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English#Key>r 
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English#Key>? 
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English#Key>l 
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English#Key>/ 
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English>) is a person who 
> sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting 
> people,^[1] 
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29#cite_note-Campbell-Trolls-1> 
>  by posting inflammatory,^[2] 
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29#cite_note-2> 
> extraneous <http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/extraneous#Adjective>, or 
> off-topic <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off-topic> messages in an 
> online community (such as a forum, chat room 
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chat_room>, or blog) with the deliberate 
> intent of provoking readers into an emotional 
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotion> response^[3] 
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29#cite_note-PCMAG_def-3> 
>  or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.^[4] 
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29#cite_note-IUKB_def-4>
> Quinn
> On Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 4:27 PM, Calvinjean2 <calvinjean2 at comcast.net 
> <mailto:calvinjean2 at comcast.net>> wrote:
>     What was so offensive that he needs to be silenced?
>     On Apr 22, 2014, at 3:20 PM, Quinn Sullivan <qsullivan11 at gmail.com
>     <mailto:qsullivan11 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>     Can we block this guy from trolling our email list, please?
>>     On Apr 22, 2014 1:23 PM, "Steve's Account" <stevel at fern.com
>>     <mailto:stevel at fern.com>> wrote:
>>         >
>>         >
>>         >
>>         >    Enjoy complimentary tastings at any of the participating
>>         wineries
>>         >    Indulge in a complimentary appetizer from The Joel
>>         Palmer House Restaurant. Special
>>         >    glass pours from each participating winery will also be
>>         exclusively available on the
>>         >    wine list. Please make dinner reservations at
>>         JoelPalmerHouse.com <http://JoelPalmerHouse.com>.
>>         I do hope that the Oregon State Police have noticed and have
>>         stationed their mobile
>>         "impaired driver" trailer along the route.. With all the time
>>         folks have to
>>         "sample and wait for a charge" I'm sure it will be furtile
>>         pickings.
>>         Why would OEVA encourage drinking and driving? How about a
>>         bus to encourage fuel
>>         efficient travel and sober driving?
>>         Steve
>>         _______________________________________________
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>>         Oeva-list at oeva.org <mailto:Oeva-list at oeva.org>
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>>     _______________________________________________
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