[Oeva-list] Mileage tax

Mark Powell terrapin99 at gmail.com
Mon May 25 09:01:50 PDT 2015


We may want to stay away from using a Hum-V as a valid example of the inequities of this use tax. How many do we see on the roads anymore? As some have already commented, we can ill afford to turn off ICE drivers and need their support. The usage tax needs to be fair for all drivers and ICE drivers need to understand that equity in this tax will ultimately benefit all drivers. We all make decisions based on our self interest especially when it comes to taxes, however, we will fail if we let our limited self-interest drive the conversation. 
Sent from my iPhone

> On May 23, 2015, at 12:00 PM, oeva-list-request at oeva.org wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: Pay-per-mile Vehicle Tax (Karl Boekelheide)
>   2. Re: Pay-per-mile Vehicle Tax (Mike Overton)
>   3. Re: Pay-per-mile Vehicle Tax (Bill Meyer)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 23 May 2015 09:33:00 -0700
> From: Karl Boekelheide <Karl at boekelheide.com>
> Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Pay-per-mile Vehicle Tax
> To: ericc at xenopi.com
> Cc: Oeva list <oeva-list at oeva.org>
> Message-ID: <1D1F6D6D-B503-4148-80CE-96FBCDB3CCD1 at Boekelheide.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> 
> BTW, a Hummer is over 4 tons.
> 8500 lbs
> The H2 is a gas guzzler. Because it has a gross vehicle weight rating over 8500 lbs, the US government does not require it to meet federal fuel efficiency regulations. Hummer isn't even required to publish its fuel economy (owners indicate that they get around 10 mpg for normal use).
> 
>> On May 23, 2015, at 9:27 AM, Eric Cha <ericc at xenopi.com> wrote:
>> 
>> So a 500 lb motorcycle + rider does the same amount of wear and tear on the roads as a 2-ton Hummer carrying 5 passengers?  
>> 
>> I am highly skeptical.  
>> 
>> Did Miss Snow, by chance, point you to data for these conclusions?
>> 
>> Eric
>> 
>>> On 5/23/2015 8:21 AM, WALTER J EAGER wrote:
>>> There was an error in my original post on "Pay-Per-Mile Vehicle Tax".  I have since spoken with Shelley Snow of ODOT.  She stated that study results show passenger vehicles up to ten tons do not differ in their effect on Oregon highways because they have be designed to have this characteristic. 
>> [...]
>>> 
>>> Electric and hybrid vehicles have the same effect on highways as any comparable vehicle up to 10 tons and should pay the same amount of tax per mile of travel.
>> 
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> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 23 May 2015 09:52:10 -0700
> From: Mike Overton <mikeov1 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Pay-per-mile Vehicle Tax
> To: ericc at xenopi.com
> Cc: "oeva-list at oeva.org" <oeva-list at oeva.org>
> Message-ID:
>    <CADNV8Kho=OpXJ3Dtjss5WDpZKKcSuS0Ract7LQvrVrOT5usziA at mail.gmail.com>
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> 
> Eric,
> Clearly the Hummer causes more wear than an motorcycle.  If I remember
> correctly from a similar discussion here a couple years ago, the wear is
> related to the forth power of the weight.  So as weight goes up the wear
> goes up much faster.
> 
> However this implies that motorcycles and and Hummers are both negligible
> compared to large trucks.  So perhaps that is way to interpret  the comment.
> 
> Another way to look at is is that the road is designed to support a very
> heavy weigh per axle.  If you get near the limit the roadway flexes and you
> get wear.   Well below the limit the flex is so low that there is little
> effect.
> 
> I suspect once you get discontinuities like pot holes the wear effect are
> different,
> 
> Mike
> 
>> On Sat, May 23, 2015 at 9:27 AM, Eric Cha <ericc at xenopi.com> wrote:
>> 
>> So a 500 lb motorcycle + rider does the same amount of wear and tear on
>> the roads as a 2-ton Hummer carrying 5 passengers?
>> 
>> I am highly skeptical.
>> 
>> Did Miss Snow, by chance, point you to data for these conclusions?
>> 
>> Eric
>> 
>> On 5/23/2015 8:21 AM, WALTER J EAGER wrote:
>> 
>> There was an error in my original post on "Pay-Per-Mile Vehicle Tax".  I
>> have since spoken with Shelley Snow of ODOT.  She stated that study results
>> show passenger vehicles up to ten tons do not differ in their effect on
>> Oregon highways because they have be designed to have this characteristic.
>> 
>> [...]
>> 
>> 
>> Electric and hybrid vehicles have the same effect on highways as any
>> comparable vehicle up to 10 tons and should pay the same amount of tax per
>> mile of travel.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Oeva-list mailing list
>> Oeva-list at oeva.org
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
>> 
>> 
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> ------------------------------
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> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 23 May 2015 10:41:03 -0700
> From: Bill Meyer <bill.meyer at coho.net>
> Subject: Re: [Oeva-list] Pay-per-mile Vehicle Tax
> To: Mike Overton <mikeov1 at gmail.com>, ericc at xenopi.com
> Cc: "oeva-list at oeva.org" <oeva-list at oeva.org>
> Message-ID: <5560BBAF.4080403 at coho.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> We must carefully interpret the ODOT statement, specifically "their 
> effect on Oregon highways".
> If "effect" means cost, then various categories have different effects:
> 1. construction of bridges & roadways
> 2. maintenance of bridges
> 3. maintenance of roadways
> 4. safety & law enforcement
> 
> 1. Motorists pay little for construction. Interstate highways are 
> federal, adding to the national debt to be paid by our grandchildren. 
> Many local roads are funded by development fees to be paid by home buyers.
> 2. Bridge lifetime degradation is modeled by a 'power-law':  weight to 
> the 3rd power for steel, weight to the 5th power for concrete. Even 
> Hummers are negligible - weight-mile taxes compensate a tiny fraction of 
> damage by tandem semi-truck-trailers.
> 3. Asphalt degrades faster with studded tires & heavier axle weight, but 
> this petroleum byproduct is cheap. This argument is more about 
> living-wage jobs vs inefficient government.
> 4. Scofflaw bikers cost much highway patrol effort, so I reject claims 
> that fuel taxes are unfair to motorcycles.
> 
> Regards,
>   - Bill
> 
>> On 5/23/2015 9:52 AM, Mike Overton wrote:
>> Eric,
>> Clearly the Hummer causes more wear than an motorcycle.  If I remember 
>> correctly from a similar discussion here a couple years ago, the wear 
>> is related to the forth power of the weight.  So as weight goes up the 
>> wear goes up much faster.
>> 
>> However this implies that motorcycles and and Hummers are both 
>> negligible compared to large trucks.  So perhaps that is way to 
>> interpret  the comment.
>> 
>> Another way to look at is is that the road is designed to support a 
>> very heavy weigh per axle.  If you get near the limit the roadway 
>> flexes and you get wear.   Well below the limit the flex is so low 
>> that there is little effect.
>> 
>> I suspect once you get discontinuities like pot holes the wear effect 
>> are different,
>> 
>> Mike
>> 
>> On Sat, May 23, 2015 at 9:27 AM, Eric Cha <ericc at xenopi.com 
>> <mailto:ericc at xenopi.com>> wrote:
>> 
>>    So a 500 lb motorcycle + rider does the same amount of wear and
>>    tear on the roads as a 2-ton Hummer carrying 5 passengers?
>> 
>>    I am highly skeptical.
>> 
>>    Did Miss Snow, by chance, point you to data for these conclusions?
>> 
>>    Eric
>> 
>>>    On 5/23/2015 8:21 AM, WALTER J EAGER wrote:
>>>    There was an error in my original post on "Pay-Per-Mile Vehicle
>>>    Tax".  I have since spoken with Shelley Snow of ODOT. She stated
>>>    that study results show passenger vehicles up to ten tons do not
>>>    differ in their effect on Oregon highways because they have be
>>>    designed to have this characteristic.
>>    [...]
>>> 
>>>    Electric and hybrid vehicles have the same effect on highways as
>>>    any comparable vehicle up to 10 tons and should pay the same
>>>    amount of tax per mile of travel.
>> 
>> 
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