To Do List for David

How to Make a Complete Map of Every Thought you Think

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To: <d.cary at ieee.org>
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 22:21:19 "GMT"
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David Cary
Product Design Engineer
Pinpoint Corporation
1124 S LEWIS AVE
TULSA OK 74104-3906

flow control on PIC:

if-then

if-then-else:
put into subroutine, then return early:

void doCondition() {
   if (condition()) {
     ifBlock();
     return;
   }
   elseBlock();
   return;
 }
...
see
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ElseConsideredSmelly
"Putting every "if" into its own method is an interesting idiom.
It is similar, perhaps, to the LISP idiom that all looping should be done with tail recursion --
refactoring each loop into its own function.
(...a pair of concepts I just expanded in LanguageIdiomsEncouragingSmallMethods.)"

Subject: 
             Re: FPGA questions
        Date: 
             30 Nov 1998 00:00:00 GMT
       From: 
             David Kessner 
 Organization: 
             Peak Audio
         To: 
             Twinsen 
 Newsgroups: 
             sci.electronics.design
  References: 
             1

Twinsen wrote:

> I have recently started reading about FPGA's and would like to have a
> go at using them. I got a information pack from Actel which has quite
> a lot of info however asumes that you already have some  knowledge
> about the devices.
> Where can I get more info? For example, what is the difference in
> using verilog over vhdl and can I port code between different vendor
> FPGA's ?
>
> I'm looking for a "FPGA's for dummies" kind of thing ... >:-)
>
> Thanks in advance
> Craig

Here is my two cents worth...

VHDL is the way to go.  Verilog is easier to learn, but VHDL supports
lots of more constructs than Verilog.  This is really a personal
preference
kind of thing, but I strongly prefer VHDL.

Once you've chosen VHDL, you need to learn VHDL.  The cheapest
way to learn VHDL is using the Cypress WARP software.  There are
three ways to get this software.  They are:

    Buy the book "VHDL for Programmable Logic" by Kevin Skahill
    and published by Addison Wesley.  Double check, but last time I
    saw this book cost US$49 and came with a CD-ROM with Warp.

    Buy Warp directly from Cypress.  It costs about US$99 and comes
    with the book, technical support, and software updates.

    Buy the Warp+ISP package from Cypress.  It costs about $150 and
    comes with everything mentioned above plus the in circuit
programmable
    cable, software, and I believe a small eval board + some CPLD's.

While Cypress only makes CPLD's and not FPGA's, there isn't a cheaper
way to get into VHDL that I know of.  And Cypress and their distributors
are always offering ways to get the $99 package for free!  It's a good
deal.

The book is well written and is a hardback.  It assumes no knowledge
of PLD's, FPGA's, and CPLD's...

Other than the Cypress software, you're stuck with the more expensive
packages from Xilinx, Synopsis, and others.  These packages regularly
cost between US$1500 up to US$10k.

But to more directly address your questions...

The best way to start learning about programmable logic devices (not
just FPGA's) is to start using them.  On the job training, so to speak.
I'll be the first to agree that the market for FPGA software is
confusing.
That's why I recommend the Cypress package as a cheap no-nonsense
approach to getting started.  The second best way to start out is to
choose a chip architecture that fits your application and then get your
employer to fork over the money for the $5000 development package.

The difference between VHDL and Verilog is difficult to explain.  It
is hard enough to understand the differences when you are experienced
at it, but for the beginner it is impossible.  But basically, Verilog is
a
somewhat simpler language.  It is easier to learn, but also has
limitations.
VHDL, on the other hand, is a complex language that is difficult to learn

but has some powerful constructs that can make designing a large FPGA
or ASIC much easier.   I would say that VHDL seems to be the industry
standard, but some people would probably disagree with me on that.

With VHDL, you can port code from one chip to another.  However,
it is not as simple as you might think.  Some people would compare
it to C, and say that it's as portable as C is.  I would, however, say
that it is as portable as C was in the late 70's.  You can port it, but
it
takes a lot of effort.  Recently, I upgraded from one version of Xilinx
Foundation to the latest version.   I had to do major modifications to
my code to make it compile.   The portability of VHDL is improving,
but it still has a long way to go.  I cannot comment on the portability
of Verilog.

Hope this helps!

David Kessner
davidk@peakaudio.com

	cd ~
	tar --create --verbose --file /tmp/dav_backup.tgz --gzip .

	cd ~
	tar --create --verbose --file /home/temp/dav_backup.tgz --gzip .

	cd ~
	find . -type l -print

todo: C language on PIC

LCD Discussions
http://www.eio.com/public/lcd/

pico-c
a compiler for the PIC16C84
picc-02b.zip
from
http://personal.eunet.fi/pp/jokinen/

http://piclist.org/techref/microchip/languages.htm

http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Way/5807/dat.html#Robotics
http://www.piclist.com/techref/microchip/languages.htm
C compilers for the PIC (some free)

[C language ][PIC]
http://www.fored.co.uk/LearnCFED.htm
???

Todo: check out "SDCC"

[PIC]
http://www.dattalo.com/
SDCC Pic Port - Is a port of SDCC - Small Device C Compiler to the PIC.

[already downloaded]
JAL is a high-level language for Microchip PIC
http://www.xs4all.nl/~wf/wouter/pic/jal/limited.html
http://come.to/jal
JAL is more like Pascal
...
http://www.xs4all.nl/~wf/wouter/pic/jal/limited.html
Jal is a free compiler for a number of PICs (16x84, 12c508/9, 16F877) and
Ubicom's (SX18/28).

some examples ( f84,f877) of JAL code at
http://www.geocities.com/vsurducan/pic.htm
If you need assembler, you could use it under jal.

CC5xfree, a free 1K limited
C compiler from B. Knudsen Data - www.bknd.com.

[commercial C compilers for PICs]
From: Dale Botkin  on 2001-05-14 03:11:20 PM
Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list 
To:  PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
cc:   (bcc: David Cary/TULSA/BRUNSWICKOUTDOOR)

Subject:  Re: [PIC]:C / C++ compiler

On Mon, 14 May 2001, Joseph A. Zammit wrote:

> I am starting to program the large PIC's the F8xx's etc. Due to their
> complexity I wish to program them in C or C++. Can you recommend me a good
> compiler or else shall I program in assembly? I have extensive experience in
> assembly programming but for quicker development I wish to use a higher
> level language

I use CCS C...  many others use it as well as Hi-Tech C.  I'm not aware of
any C++ compiler for the PIC.  I tried a cople of other compilers before
settling on CCS, some were OK, some were total junk.

Dale
--
A train stops at a train station.  A bus stops at a bus station.
On my desk I have a workstation...

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

pita bread
tomato sauce
italian seasoning
onions
cheese

optional:
cooked pepperonnis
cooked kidney beans
zuchinni

put toppings on pita bread.
Cook until cheese is melted.
cool and serve.

    Things to add (somebody look them up!)
	Basic rocketry numbers & equations
	Aerodynamical stuff
	Energy to put a pound into orbit or accelerate to interstellar
	    velocities.
	Non-circular cases?
...
	"Proximity Zero, A Writer's Guide to the Nearest 200 Stars (A
	    40-Lightyear Radius)"
	Terry Kepner
	ISBN # 0-926895-02-8

    Available from the author for $14.95 + $2.90 shipping ($5 outside US):

	Terry Kepner
	PO Box 481
	Petersborough, NH 03458

 v^2 = 2ad

 v^2 = 2ad + v0 - (2a)d0.

	SQL 24.06%
	ASP 14.90%
	Java 14.55%
	C++ 11.33%
	Visual Basic 10.07%
	Perl 4.73%

Subject: Re: Which programming languages
Date: 1999/06/29
Author: Jason Stokes <jstok at bluedog.apana.org.au>
   Posting History

On 29 Jun 1999 16:39:58 GMT, Tim McCaffrey
<timothy.mccaffrey@spam2filter.unisys.com.takethisoff> wrote:

>To continue from another thread:
>
>If you were to pick 6 programming languages that a CS student had to
>know, what would they be?
>
>I propose:
>
>1)  C/C++ - So they can find employment.
>2)  Pascal/Delphi - So they no what a real type safe language is
>3)  COBOL - Just to torture them.
>4)  Prolog - For a different perspective.
>5)  Lisp - Ditto.
>6)  Snobol or ICON - Find out what a truly powerful language can do.

1) Eiffel -- so plenty of potentially valuable programmers don't drop out
 in the first unit, and to learn what programming is like in heaven.

2) One of Perl, Python -- for the fans of quick, messy and dirty scripting.

3) Prolog -- for logic programming experience.

4) One of Haskell, Lisp, Erlan, or other functional language
 -- because computer science, like roughage, is good for you.

5) Java -- because you can't beat fashion

6) C/C++ -- because this monstrosity will hang around of of sheer inertia
 for *years*.

--
Jason Stokes: jstok@bluedog.apana.org.au

Subject: Re: Which programming languages
Date: 1999/06/29
Author: Wolfram Schmied <wschmied at mail.blinx.de>
   Posting History

On Tue, 29 Jun 1999 17:14:37 GMT, jstok@bluedog.apana.org.au (Jason
Stokes) wrote:
>On 29 Jun 1999 16:39:58 GMT, Tim McCaffrey
><timothy.mccaffrey@spam2filter.unisys.com.takethisoff> wrote:

>>If you were to pick 6 programming languages that a CS student had to
>>know, what would they be?

>>1)  C/C++ - So they can find employment.
>>2)  Pascal/Delphi - So they no what a real type safe language is
>>3)  COBOL - Just to torture them.
>>4)  Prolog - For a different perspective.
>>5)  Lisp - Ditto.
>>6)  Snobol or ICON - Find out what a truly powerful language can do.
...

1) APL              - Because this demontrates that interpreters can
                       beat optimizing compilers. And to see good ideas
                       (notation, operator concept, simplified
                      parameter passing) mixed with bad ideas (no
                       control structures, narrow type concept),
                      presumably to keep the former 'pure'.
2) microcode        - Just to get used to the fact that machine code
                       is an interpreted language. Also, it shows that
                       you don't have to know _how_ it's done, as long
                       as you know _what_ is done.
3) Component Pascal - So they know what a real type safe language is.
                       Also, it's from Wirth's cohorts and it's free.
                       Try it! (www.oberon.ch)
4) BASIC            - You can't win.
5) C                - You can't break even.
6) Dr. Logo        - You can't get out of the game.

Wolfram "just wait till I've finished my own language" Schmied

Without C, we would have to execute BASI, Pasal, OBOL, ++, and ION
on omputers running /PM not knowing what an opode is.

		PIC IRTC Ver:2.5x           £149.95
		AVR IRTC on CD + ISP        £159.95
		MSP430 IRTC on CD + ISP     £159.95

To Do List for David

Projects David is working on in his Copious Free Time:

computer languages