A Newsletter for the Portland area Didjeridu player......April  2001 Volume 7 Issue 4


An Interview with Frank Thill

by Ed Drury


Commitment and passion are the words that most frequently came to my mind during my interview with Frank Thill. Based on reputation, Artistry and craftsmanship would have to be at the head of any paragraph written to describe this now resident of Arnhem Land.

Frank’s instruments reflect his passion for and commitment to learning from the master yirdaki builders of Arnhem Land. His present location and activities reflect in his involvement with Rripangu Yirdaki and his teacher Djalu' Gurruwiwi. Not only does he maintain his own business of making some of the finest "westernized" yirdaki available, but Frank devotes enormous time and energy assisting with the development of Yolngu owned and operated business which offers a new level of authenticity and quality to the world in a very direct and personal way.
Some examples of Frank's work can be seen and purchased through yirdaki.com.au.


[Ed] Can you recall for us your first experiences with the didjeridu? Where you heard it and how you got started playing it?

[Frank] I can't recall the first time I have heard a didjeridu, but I remember this incredible feeling of goose bumps all over my body in 1993, when I was standing right in front of an Aboriginal man, his face, arms and legs covered in white clay, playing a traditional didjeridu in Glastonbury, England.I had this most incredible time with some of my best friends in visiting the Glastonbury Rock festival, which is by the way one of the biggest events in this field.Everybody took off to see the next concert and I just stared at this man and knew that this meant more to me than just the wish to learn about this instrument, or how to play it. He must have been invited by one of the bands who where using a didjeridu in their performance. I actually never found out who he was. Going back home I realized that I could not stop thinking about the impact this man had had on me. His raspy, pulling rhythms were so different, so ancient in opposition to the stage performance of some of the bands I had seen in this concert.

In speaking about my experience I realized that my friends felt different and liked Graham Wiggins with his band Outback a lot better as they liked his African rhythms on the didjeridu. I felt the strong wish to travel to Australia and learn more about Aboriginal culture, as my interest straight away went beyond the didjeridu in it's contemporary use. Graham and the other western players seemed to be nothing but bubbles on the surface of a deep lake to me. It was not possible for me to go to Australia straight away, but about six months later I met this girl and on our first day out we ended up on an expo where we (to my surprise) found a stand with Australian eucalyptus didjeridus. On this day we decided to travel down under together. In the meantime I made several attempts to at least learn how to make a didjeridu sound and learn about the circular breathing. As most westerners I have learned the circular breathing and the basic drone on a PVC pipe, but realized that a traditional didjeridu must sound very different. The first Australian didjeridu I tried was in Sydney, I think it was one made by David Blanasi and in looking around down south I realized that I wanted to go up north. We ended up staying in the Northern Territory and I knew that this place would change my life, as the culture I was looking for seemed closer than ever before. It was here where I proudly owned my first didjeridu. I remember how unsatisfied I was in going back home as I had so many unanswered questions in my head and knew that I wanted to come back to spend more time in Darwin.

[Ed] So at some point you made a jump to dedicate yourself to not only study traditional playing, but instrument making as well as I would guess other aspects of culture. Before we get to where you are now with this, I'd love to know what happened next. What happened when you ventured into the "outback"?

[Frank] I went back home and tried to localize people with similar interests. I have made good contacts but my interest in especially the didjeridu stayed rather unsatisfied. My female travel companion and I developed a special relationship with our similar interests and it did not take long before she successfully applied for a position with the Yothu Yindi Band management in Darwin. We returned to the Northern Territory and were introduced to Mandawuy and Galarrwuy Yunupingu from the Yothu Yindi Foundation. The following three months were a dream coming true for us and I was invited to visit Aboriginal lands and meet their elders. A last time I went back home, but just to pack my bags and sell all my belongings and move to Darwin, which I had chosen to be my new home.

  That was about 5 1/2 years ago and throughout this time I have won the trust and friendships of a number of traditional people from Arnhem Land and especially of Djalu' Gurruwiwi, a Galpu elder who is treating me like part of his family. My friendship to him was tested many times and grew stronger. In meeting Shanah, my wife, I had another reason to settle in the NT. Djalu' continued teaching me and whenever we met I took the chance to learn about his culture, his language, dance, ceremony and social affiliations to other indigenous groups. He loves to teach and is a very wise man.. His knowledge about the yirdaki is remarkable and the chance of working with him and his family over a period of time was a big challenge for me, enabling me not just to learn about the instrument as an object but also it's cultural meaning and importance in traditional ceremony.


I also worked with David Howell (non-yolngu) over a period of one year, who I shared a house in Darwin with and the medium of wood wasn't new to me. In this time I felt a little disillusioned because of all the secrecy about modern wood working technologies and jealous competition between the non Aboriginal makers, sometimes creating an illusion of traditional "know how" to outsiders. But it was Djalu's tree selection criteria which caught all of my attention, before and after. His technique of tuning a didjeridu and his 50+ year experience, plus all the knowledge he has received from his fathers provided me with so much inspiration and different aspects, that I continued to try myself in the field of yirdaki selection and crafting, focussing on his philosophy of instrument making. After some time I received his permission to produce yirdaki independently and I started developing my own contemporary style of instrument which is a hybrid of traditional sound properties and western woodworking, to produce a good looking plain instrument with a nice finish from seasoned and stabilized wood. I continued working alongside Djalu' and his family on many occasions and a lot of the instruments produced by me were decorated with Galpu designs, which was a great honor for me.

[Ed] I wonder if you could expand a little on your point about learning to select the right trees?

[Frank]  I am now living in Nhulunbuy in North East Arnhem Land, which is a dream country in regards to the didjeridu. Everytime I go out cutting with Djalu', I realise how much I still have to learn about the land. There are so many factors in the country, influencing the growth of trees and in what way the termites affect them. In a western perspective I could break it down to a hand full of different aspects, which give me a rough idea of what kind of instrumental quality I can expect to find in the country I am looking at. It ranges from the type of soil, drainage, structure (size of rocks in the ground), surrounding vegetation to how the country around is shaped and if it is sometimes affected by flooding or hot fires. Fire and water can be good as the termites shoot up in the tree, away from the ground, leaving a big hollow bottom and a long narrow inside bore on the top. The angle of the country to the sun and the monsoon winds have a big effect on the trees as well. termites also do a better job in quiet and remote areas, creating a smooth and straight bore without any emergency exits (ergo holes) or irregularities. But this also depends on the type of Termite involved. Not every variety does the same good job and I know of two different types of termites which I try to avoid as they hollow out the tree in a way making it very time consuming to clean out the inside bore.

There are other factors as well and I am still trying to understand these, in carefully watching Djalu' scanning the country (country talk). I understood that some of these factors can be explained in a scientific way, but for others you need to free yourself from western rationalism. The best description I can give in regards to this is that I have this "gut feeling" if I am walking past an extremely suitable tree, but I am definitely spending time in flicking my finger against top and bottom of it to listen to the sound and resonance, reassuring myself of it's quality before cutting it. If I am on a cutting trip with Djalu' he appreciates if I understand  how to select the right kind of tree. Djalu is a Dhuwa man and so we have been hunting in Dhuwa country, looking for Dhuwa trees, which would be particular species of trees such as Gardayka, Bardawilli and Wandhuwa. To cut everything which is hollow would be absolutely inappropriate and if I would have a mentality like other "mass production" didjeridu makers, I guess that I would end up losing my Aboriginal friends. I was always impressed by the respect for the land of Aboriginal elders like Djalu'. There are specific types of instruments in specific types of country. That is one of several reasons why a yirdaki from Northeast Arnhem Land is different to a gunbarrk garra from central Arnhem Land. To western players it is just a didjeridu with many different names, but for indigenous people in Arnhem Land there are many types of instruments, each to be played in a particular style.

[Ed] I wonder if you could define or perhaps give us an example to tell us what you mean when you use the term, "manufactured" didj?

[Frank]  I will start with what I call a perfect didjeridu and that would be coming from a specific Arnhem Land Eucalyptus tree with a naturally hollowed and straight, nicely flared inside bore which just has to be cleaned out, using a stick or wire and a rasp at the most. The inside diameter of the mouth piece would be the size of an Australian 20 cent coin and the bell bottom in between 8 and 15 cm. This is close to what truely can be called a yirdaki, which is a specific type of didjeridu and my favorite. It is a special kind of high to cut down a tree like this, cleaning it and being able to straight away play it. The sound, smell and taste of moist and living wood, in the spot where the tree came from, that is the most enchanting experience in regards to yirdaki "hunting" for me. Then I just would follow the traditional method, cutting the log into length and following the inside bore from the outside, working with the grain to create an even wall thickness. The already existing shape on the inside just would have to be set free. It is not too easy to track down trees with these properties, but in going out bush frequently I have seen quite a number of "originals" and have studied the sound and balance of instruments like this for some years now. I try to keep this in mind in tuning instruments with a sometimes less perfect inside shape by using chisels of various lengths and extended rasps. I modify the inside shape until it sounds right and then start to shape it on the outside, again using the inside shape as a guide. This process of tuning I find hard to describe in words and I am a lot better in demonstrating it, as it requires to listen carefully and to feel the balance in weight and sound.

In the process of studying the Aboriginal style of instrument making and playing from the source I am placing myself somewhere in the middle of traditional and non traditional didjeridu makers. This brings me to the point where I am speaking about the extremists of contemporary didjeridu making, which are providing 90% of the markets with their product. Some of these people have a very different philosophy about didjeridu making and a manufactured didjeridu I would call an instrument where the form of the end product has been forced into the tree by using drills, router bits or a lathe and other heavy machinery as in plumbing tools. This very fast process eliminates any kind of passion and hand work, which is important in creating a proper instrument. The end buyer who might be really interested in the sound properties holds nothing but a pseudo-traditional placebo in his hands in that case. A product which has very little in common with a yirdaki made by Djalu' or other traditional makers. It still could be classified as a wooden trumpet though.

[Ed] In addition to learning to make yirdaki from Djalu', I believe you've studied Yolngu playing style quite extensively. I want to ask you how the selection of material, the making of the instrument and the playing style combine?

[Frank]  There are various species of eucalyptus to be transformed into different types and shapes of instruments, relating to the different people and ceremonies. In trying to explain the difference I would focus on the particular sound properties of the chosen specimen, which mostly concern the balance between fundamental and first overtone in interaction with the backpressure of the instrument. If you listen to the different playing styles in Arnhem Land over and over again you soon realize that you will have limited possibilities in trying to reconstruct these in using the same instrument. And on the other side it is extremely helpful to use the same instrument as your teacher does, in trying to learn about his particular style.

My knowledge in regards to crafting ceremonial instruments is limited to the Galpu and Gumatj clans from Yirrkala area. The ceremonies usually relate to the country these people are living in and the sound of the didjeridu is already programmed in the tree being cut in this area. The art of enhancing this sound is very skillful and is part of traditional knowledge, but it is also necessary to have some understanding about how much machinery might be used to stay close to the "original" sound. The Galpu I know traditionally used pretty long yirdaki, which were played with heavy, "tidal" kind of rhythms, belonging to the Dhuwa moiety.

Next to the length and balance of the instrument there are modifications to the instrument and it's sound which are rather complicated to discern for the western listener. It is necessary to study traditional styles to be able to get some kind of an idea about the tuning. One special way of making the instrument more versatile is to carve the inner mouthpiece diameter in a slightly triangular or oval fashion, which makes it possible to attach your lips in different spots. That enables the skilled player to adjust the instrument if the playing style within the ceremony changes, without having to change the instrument. The traditional playing styles are similar to spoken dialects of a language group and I know of some Yolngu who are able to discern which area in Arnhem Land the player is coming from, even if he is playing the local style, just in recognizing his accent or tongue whilst playing. The different species of trees being used also have their own dialect. Yolngu have a very different understanding in sound properties and especially now I am learning new bits and pieces about that nearly every day. My answer to this question of yours would grow in time and I can't see an end in this learning process.

[Ed]  Has language been part of your learning process as well as learning to harvest and working the instruments into playing form (tuning)? And would you say that at least an attempt at learning language is rudimentary to appreciating a traditional instrument? I am wondering if on this point is some of the difference between your instruments, "placed between westernized playing style and traditional", and a traditional instrument?

[Frank] In learning to pronounce Yolngu matha more correctly I indeed could improve my skill in playing yirdaki's. I also have learned about the difference in some subspecies of eucalyptus stringybark, which basically look alike, but are different to Yolngu. For understanding the difference in sound I had to refine the usage of my tongue, to realize this tiny difference in the balance. I can't say that I already have mastered this but I feel that I am getting a lot closer.

The instrument quality as you can hear it on early field recordings definitely sounds better if you understand about tongue positions as being used in Arnhem Land languages. There are 6 tongue positions in using yolngu matha phonemes. Three of these are different to most western languages and are important for getting closer to the traditional playing styles. This involves using your tongue in a retroflex, velar or interdental position. It requires a good control over your tongue and is one of the first things an Aboriginal teacher will share with you. Modern nontraditional yirdakis usually sound somewhat clearer to the non-Aboriginal listener, as they are sometimes accustomed to the preferences (or language) of western players. I am receiving all sorts of advice in regards to custom made orders, which are changing the sound properties of my instruments not always to my liking. It is very understandable though, as that's just a matter of preference. And this is why I am trying to make my instruments a little more versatile, as the people being interested in the original, rather flat and raspy sound properties are usually from a specifically orientated small group.

[Ed] Now you have relocated yourself even closer to the traditional source of yirdaki. I wonder if you could talk a bit about your new home, the reasons behind the move there and your current relationships with the Yolngu, business and personal?

[Frank] I am very happy that I can call Gove in North East Arnhem Land my home, as I am in close range to some of the finest people and areas in regards to the yirdaki and the cultural background of it. The most important reason of my relocation was the invitation of Djalu' and family to join forces, sharing a workshop together and support Djalu's new found business "Rripangu yirdaki". I assume that this is resulting out of the friendship and trust I have developed with him and his family in working and sharing together frequently over the last years. This is of reciprocal value for both parties. I am offering my practical skills in regards to wood working, tools, small business- and production management, which in return allows me to be as close as possible to the traditional Yolngu culture and language. In this way I can continue studying the local Gupapuyngu language on a far more intense level, to deepen my understanding of cultural issues from this area. My knowledge of this language is still restricted to a limited understanding of what people are talking about and a small amount of phrases to respond to this. Especially in meeting the elders out here it is appropriate to ease the way of communicating with each other, helping me in clarifying issues which are hard to translate in a semantically correct form. It also will boost my existing understanding about traditional yirdaki playing as the daily contact with Yolngu, the practice of the language and the proper pronunciation is an important factor of refining technique on the instrument.

Next to my own ideas and skills I am part of a group with a broad spectrum of knowledge, possibilities and contacts, yourself included as our latest member. The initial intention of this group was to support and advise Yolngu like Djalu' (and others in the future), enabling them to build a strong foundation for an Aboriginal owned enterprise. International touring is just one of the aspects the group is planning on at the moment. But I am more interested in supporting the groundwork and see myself as the handyman in regards to a smooth running business for the Gurruwiwi's. The workload is immense at this stage and if it is getting too complicated I am a pair of hands and eyes in the spot, for issues that can be solved through one of the members of the Rripangu support group. I am also continuing my own yirdaki production over here, which undoubtedly will further improve the quality of my instruments because of the fact that I can access the finest tree qualities available in regards to didjeridu making. The motivation working within this environment will be a strong catalyst. This is enabling me to support my families' needs as I do not intend to work for Djalu', but alongside him to respect the authenticity of his work and helping him out with any kind of problems, arising through his latest attempt in self-management.


Email contacts and websites related to this article :

Frank Thill can be contacted at fsthill@bigpond.com

Rripangu's site is located at www.djalu.com

Questions and comments about this and other articles should be addressed to Ed Drury.

Please note - the images used in this article were provided by Frank Thill and are his property. They are used here by permission. Please do not copy them or use them without express permision from the owner.

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